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Friday, November 02, 2018

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (November 2018)

Before she arrived on the Vancouver set of Deadpool 2 in mid-August 2017, Joi Harris had never performed a stunt. She’d never been anywhere near a movie or TV set, for that matter. Producers and studio 20th Century Fox wanted an African-American double for Zazie Beetz, who’d been cast in the role of Domino. They hired Harris, 40, who had done some motorcycle racing, and flew her in a couple of days before the shoot. The sequence was pretty straightforward. It called for a rider, sitting astride a powerful Ducati 939 Hyperstrada motorcycle, to coast down a set of planks that had been laid over a few stairs. Harris would be traveling about 5 miles an hour, though onscreen it would be made to look as if she were going much faster.

As the day approached, several experienced stunt performers who had been training Harris all weekend say they told producers and the stunt coordinator they believed Harris wasn’t ready. They warned the production that racing on a track was very different from performing in front of cameras and an audience. Producers stuck to the plan. Canada’s workplace safety agency, WorkSafeBC, hasn’t released its final report on what happened next, but three people familiar with that day’s shoot say they watched in horror as Harris, on the first live take, lost control of the bike. She hung on as it sped across a street at high speed before hitting a planter, which sent her hurtling headfirst through a plate glass window. She wasn’t wearing a helmet. It was 9:30 in the morning, and her very first stunt would also be her last.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 02, 2018 at 04:50 PM | 1213 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   101. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:15 PM (#5786270)
Pandora's Box for 1929's best.


Pandora's Box was #2 on my list of all-time favorite films for many years. It's now #3 behind "Brief Encounter" and "5 Centimeters per Second", but it's still a film I love.
   102. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:32 PM (#5786284)
5 Centimeters per Second is delightful.
   103. BDC Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:58 PM (#5786300)
I’ve seen about 25 from your list, Davo, heavily concentrated in the 1940s & ‘50s. At some point I made a real effort to see lots of pictures from that era - my father was an expert on older American films and led me to most of them, or instilled a taste.

But how could you pick Naked Gun and not Airplane!? Maybe there was a real classic in that year.
   104. PreservedFish Posted: November 12, 2018 at 08:24 PM (#5786315)
On Saturday night I ate dinner at a restaurant that literally specializes in preserved fish. Half of the menu is gourmet tinned fish, mostly European, presumably hard-to-find, probably marked up hilariously, as we spent about $50 on 3 regular-sized tins: mussels, eel and sardines. There was a $49 tin of cockles in white wine that we opted against.
   105. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 12, 2018 at 08:33 PM (#5786321)
103- I love love love Airplane, but yeah, 1980 has both The Shining and Raging Bull; stacked ballot!
   106. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 12, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5786355)
I never compiled a 100 year list of my favorite** films, but on an old TCM forum I compiled a top 10 for each year from 1930 to 1969. Here's the #1 I chose from each of those years. It's not too hard to figure out my biases. (smile)

If there's a second film listed, it's because it was in a virtual tie for #1

1930: The Blue Angel / The Unholy Three (the sound version)
1931: M
1932: I Am a Fugitive From a Chain Gang / So Big
1933: Bombshell / The Testament of Dr. Mabuse
1934: La Bandera
1935: Bordertown / Little Big Shot
1936: Libeled Lady
1937: Gueule d'amour / Stella Dallas
1938: Bringing Up Baby
1939: Le Jour Se Leve / The Women
1940: His Girl Friday
1941: Pepe Le Moko
1942: The Hard Way
1943: Old Acquaintance (Best of the worst year ever for movies - Casablanca came out in 1942)
1944: Laura
1945: Children of Paradise
1946: The Killers / It's A Wonderful Life
1947: Out of the Past / Germany: Year Zero / Nightmare Alley (a virtual 3 way tie)
1948: Bicycle Thieves / The Search
1949: Stray Dog / Thieves' Highway
1950: All About Eve / The Asphalt Jungle
1951: The Racket / The Steel Helmet
1952: Carrie
1953: Tokyo Story / Touchez Pas au Grisbi
1954: On The Waterfront / A Star Is Born
1955: Diabolique
1956: While The City Sleeps / The Killing
1957: Throne of Blood / Nights of Cabiria
1958: Vertigo
1959: The 400 Blows / North By Northwest
1960: Kapo / The Bad Sleep Well
1961: Scream of Fear / The Raisin in the Sun
1962: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?
1963: High and Low / Bay of Angels
1964: Nothing But a Man
1965: The Battle of Algiers / Red Beard
1966: Tokyo Drifter / Hunger
1967: A Colt Is My Passport
1968: The Producers
1969: Mississippi Mermaid / Army of Shadows

** I make no claims as to whether these are the "best", only that as of about 5 or 6 years ago they were my favorites.

   107. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2018 at 06:56 AM (#5786411)
Did OTP get nuked?
   108. Lassus Posted: November 13, 2018 at 07:15 AM (#5786413)
Wow. I think it did. October 29 thread still there, November 5th gone.

If I had a guess I'd say Jim reviewed it and saw some (not recent, but at the start of that week) posts from Sam, nuked the thread and suspended him. But that's a complete guess with no research or reconnaissance.
   109. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 13, 2018 at 07:20 AM (#5786414)
Andy’s serial copyright violations finally caught up to him, and now we all must suffer. We hate you Andy!
   110. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2018 at 08:06 AM (#5786415)
If I had a guess I'd say Jim reviewed it and saw some (not recent, but at the start of that week) posts from Sam, nuked the thread and suspended him. But that's a complete guess with no research or reconnaissance.

Sam's comments are still there in other threads, so scratch that part. What'll be more telling will be if the new OTP gets posted, the one that the rodent submitted yesterday.

EDIT: Maybe this is the new OTP thread, who knows?
   111. Rennie's Tenet Posted: November 13, 2018 at 08:30 AM (#5786417)
Today is Unger Day. Use a coaster.
   112. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 09:51 AM (#5786447)
EDIT: Maybe this is the new OTP thread, who knows?


I submitted a proper OTP thread Monday morning - something about how both voting and baseball matter.

Anyway back to the thread topic ... I finished the highly rated Night Circus recently (for my book club) and I enjoyed it but ...

The story and writing style were plenty enjoyable. I liked the structure of the story and it grew darker and tension began to escalate, the stakes rose and then it felt like the author blinked and things sort of slide back into being safer and more comfortable. I still enjoyed it, but for a while I thought it was going to be fantastic, with a thrilling and high stakes finish to a story that started out with a more YA/enchanting/twee feel to it.

It was clever and well written, and if I hadn't got my hopes up it would have been a perfectly enjoyable ending and book, but still I come away from it vaguely disappointed.

One of the dangers of pop culture is you can walk into something with inflated expectations and then be disappointed, this is a bit less common where the start of it raised my expectations enough I am meh about the perfectly fine ending to the novel.
   113. PreservedFish Posted: November 13, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5786463)
I googled Night Circus the last time you mentioned it. The book was conceived of and begun during National Novel Writing Month, which is, as it sounds, a national event where people attempt to write an entire novel in the span of a single month. You have to produce nearly 2,000 words per day, the goal being 50,000 total words.

I myself attempted this 6-7 years ago. I quit after three days, which were among the most stressful of my entire life, because every second of leisure time was spent grappling with this task. My problem is that I actually tried to write a good fictional novel, tried to polish the prose, tried to structure it. Huge mistake! If I were to try it again, there'd be zero ambition, zero editing, just an unreadably bad stream of consciousness diary / biography. That must be what most people produce. Not sure what pride there'd be in that, so if I tried it again, I'd do something fictional again, but you clearly have to be comfortable with just rambling and making absurd tangents up and just going with it.
   114. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 13, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5786468)
101- Brief Encounter holds a very special place in my heart: it’s the movie my wife and I saw on our very first date.
   115. BDC Posted: November 13, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5786489)
people attempt to write an entire novel in the span of a single month


I may have mentioned this before, but my sport-literature colleague Marty Gervais wrote a novel called Reno, featuring the major-leaguer Reno Bertoia as a central character. The novel was the product of a similar contest, written in a single month – for some reason I remember it was November. And in Canada. It is a pretty good novel.
   116. PreservedFish Posted: November 13, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5786500)
92 pages? Pshaw.
   117. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5786507)
I googled Night Circus the last time you mentioned it. The book was conceived of and begun during National Novel Writing Month,
which is, as it sounds, a national event where people attempt to write an entire novel in the span of a single month. You have to produce nearly 2,000 words per day, the goal being 50,000 total words.


Yeah it is a long and complex novel, it took way more than a month to write. But that is interesting that it started out that way. Thanks!
   118. PreservedFish Posted: November 14, 2018 at 08:05 AM (#5787101)
Extremely excited to learn that the new Coen Bros movie - which is getting boffo reviews - debuts on Netflix in just a couple days. Kind of amazing that it beams directly to the little screen.
   119. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 14, 2018 at 08:11 AM (#5787102)
Would that it were so simple.
   120. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 14, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5787186)
I sense a new Hollywood blockbuster apocalypse movie!

Dark Matter Storm is Speeding Toward Our Sun

Will the cowboy astronauts be able to divert this deadly peril before the doe eyed love interest and the rest of the Earth perish fro this deadly space peril?

Or ... ummmmm ... will we be able to even detect it?
“What we want to do is add the stream as part of our kind of main prediction for the types of signal that should show up in a dark matter experiment,” O’Hare said. According to a statement, current detectors searching for weakly interacting massive particles (WIMPs) (one popular idea of what dark matter might be) probably won’t see anything from S1, but future tech might.


Note: I don't know if science counts as popular culture, but it should!
   121. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 14, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5787195)
Would that it were so simple.


That scene is gold.
   122. Lassus Posted: November 14, 2018 at 10:49 AM (#5787199)
Extremely excited to learn that the new Coen Bros movie - which is getting boffo reviews - debuts on Netflix in just a couple days. Kind of amazing that it beams directly to the little screen.

This actually makes me a little sad. I love the big screen.
   123. PreservedFish Posted: November 14, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5787233)
I do too, but having moved to a movie theater wasteland, I'll take it any way I can get it.
   124. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 14, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5787293)
The Last 10 books I’ve Read.....

Very Very Good

1. The Long Loneliness: The Autobiography of the Legendary Catholic Social Activist (by Dorothy Day)
2. Change the Name (by Anna Kavan)
3. Bullshit Jobs: A Theory (by David Graeber)
4. Doctor Glas (by Hjalmar Soderberg)

Worth Reading

5. The Sixth Extinction: An Unnatural History (by Elizabeth Kolbert)
6. The Locusts Have No King (by Dawn Powell)
7. Julia and the Bazooka and Other Stories (by Anna Kavan)
8. The Parson (by Anna Kavan)
9. The Chapo Guide to Revolution: A Manifesto Against Logic, Facts and Reason (by the Chapo Trap House)

WTF?

10. Kassandra and the Wolf (by Margarita Karapanou)
   125. PreservedFish Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5787339)
OT:P dead. This could be the end of the website.
   126. Jack Keefe Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5787340)
Well as the Mackeral says we can not talk Poll Ticks any more and what is the point of Primer then.

You know me Al I have never said I would stab some 1 in the neck nor introduce ralerode equipment up their Nether Chute. You get what you see with John Aloysius Keefe and that is no more harm than the occasional Punch in the Schnozz or Belt in the Kisser. But all things must end. I am just sad for the Morons Al. Ozzie Guillen would all ways say to me Keefe you must never say Moron you must say Secret Underwear Wearing Tee Totally Married for All Eternity Waiting for Jesus to Come Home to Missouri Utahn American and I have all ways took his Advise. So if the Baptizm does not take I will see youse all in Hell.
   127. Greg K Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5787342)
OT:P dead. This could be the end of the website.

It will live on in the form of an annual softball game, long after our ancestors have forgotten who Chris Truby was.
   128. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5787343)
OT:P dead. This could be the end of the website.

I believe Jim said he'd put it in the forums.
   129. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:26 PM (#5787344)
I believe Jim said he'd put it in the forums.


I don't know if I can get into the forums :/
   130. PreservedFish Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5787348)
The forum has a life of its own, but without OT:P to draw people to the newsblog, it seems likely to me that the baseball threads will die. No idea if the basketball or other tangent threads have enough inertia to survive long. IMO the website reached a tipping point some time in the last year or two, where it palpably changed from "slowing participation" to "nearly dead," and killing OT:P is the most significant single stroke anyone could have dealt to hasten the demise.

I had a love/hate relationship with the politics thread and wouldn't care about its departure were it not so significant in driving traffic. I ignored it for years, and only started participating when the other threads slowed so much.

Mixed feelings - I really like the community here, but there's a part of me that thinks I'll be a better person if I don't replace this time suck with something else. It's positively devastating to consider how much better I could have used my thousands of hours that I have spent here.
   131. BDC Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5787359)
I have a more sanguine attitude toward the time I've spent here; I think on the whole it's actually been positive. I spend about 90% of my work week alone at a laptop, writing down / looking up one thing or another; the other 10% in class or meetings. Having a conversation I can tap into from time to time has been very valuable. So naturally I don't like the move to quash discussion. After everybody guesses today's trivia answers in the Dugout, I will sign off BBTF. I am in touch with many of you on social media, and hope that those not already my friends there will look me up (I'm pretty easy to find as Tim Morris on Facebook and dropo59 on Instagram). Cheers, all!
   132. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5787365)
And so it begins ...
   133. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:47 PM (#5787367)
I don't know if I can get into the forums :/
Does this work? http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/forums/viewthread/5842/
   134. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5787369)
Does this work? http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/forums/viewthread/5842/

It does for me.
   135. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:50 PM (#5787370)
I can view the forum but cannot post...I emailed Jim.
   136. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5787371)
I can view the forum but cannot post...I emailed Jim.

I was able to post.
   137. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5787374)
It says I am not authorized to post. I wonder if it is because my account is less than a year old. I was a lurker since like 2006 but I only started posting in 12/17
   138. Nasty Nate Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5787375)
I just popped into the Lounge on the forum site. Those nested quotes used by people are so annoying. Why do people choose to post like that?
   139. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5787376)
I can view the forum but cannot post...I emailed Jim.


I had a problem a few years ago in which I could only view the forums if I was not logged in. When I logged in, all the posts disappeared. Thus I effectively couldn't post. I e-mailed Jim, and it eventually got fixed, though I had to e-mail several times before I got a response.
   140. PreservedFish Posted: November 14, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5787377)
I don't like the lounge format either, but the guys there love it, and have been loving it for many years. It's a robust little community.
   141. Nasty Nate Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:05 PM (#5787385)
I don't like the lounge format either, but the guys there love it, and have been loving it for many years. It's a robust little community.
My complaint was not about the format exactly, but how people were choosing to use it. I've seen it on other internet forums, so my taste is probably in the minority.
   142. Lassus Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5787391)
BRING OUT'CHER DEAD!
   143. Zonk Can't Hide his Disdain or Disgust Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:18 PM (#5787392)
I just popped into the Lounge on the forum site. Those nested quotes used by people are so annoying. Why do people choose to post like that?


Vertigo triggers... pass.

FWIW, I'm rather surprised by some of the OTP demise mourners... i.e., who's mourning the loss.

But whatever. I'm sanguine about it. I do think it will ultimately be a cure worse than the problem - I waste time at other places besides here on other topics, and without exception - the rule "keep the politics and rancor in that designated safe space" works better than "no politics!"
   144. Lassus Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5787395)
I wonder how much Jim would take to sell the website.
   145. McCoy Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5787400)
I don't like the lounge format either, but the guys there love it, and have been loving it for many years. It's a robust little community.

Meh, it too is a dying community. You know they're hardup when they actually go into the OTP thread and ask people to head over to the lounge to have a chat.
   146. Yonder Alonso in misguided trousers (cardinal) Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5787405)
I can view the forum but cannot post...I emailed Jim.

Same here, though I haven't emailed yet. My account's 7 years old, though I never used it all that much, mainly lurked (without logging in).

So maybe I won't email Jim...
   147. RJ in TO Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5787408)
It says I am not authorized to post. I wonder if it is because my account is less than a year old. I was a lurker since like 2006 but I only started posting in 12/17
Earlier this year, Jim made some changes to the forums, where you needed a minimum number of Mainland posts before you could post there. This was to help limit against the problems with spammers using the forums. It's possible you may have been caught up in that unintentionally, as I remember the threshold being much lower than the number of posts you currently have.
   148. formerly dp Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:47 PM (#5787409)
Re-posting from the OT-P thread, because I think this merits further discussion, and even moreso because of Jim's passive-aggressive handling of the situation:
Well, I'll chime in here before the thread gets closed to say it's very bad form by a moderator to just wantonly and indiscriminately delete a week's worth of posts, especially during a high-volume posting period like election week--and then not immediately post an explanation for doing so. It is disrespectful to the community members who post in good faith when a moderator wholesale deletes a thread, and I honestly cannot believe the people who contribute here tolerate it. This sort of behavior is exceptionally rare in contemporary online communities: it amounts to blanket retroactive censorship without cause.

Of course, it's Jim's site and he can do what he wants with it. But it's a deeply unethical practice, and it was deeply unethical when Off-His-Meds Dan nuked threads as well. People seemed to be at least minimally OK with it, because they hung around. That doesn't change the fact that it's weird and despotic and highly irregular. Jim, if it's no longer worth it to you to run the site in a responsible way, if you've settled into an absentee landlord role: why not just give over moderation duties to a committee of posters whose judgement you trust? Rules for things like thread deletion could be instituted sensibly, and put to an easy committee vote before deleting content. It's very strange to me that it's 2018, and BTF continues to have the same whimsical and capricious moderation standards it had a decade ago. Other communities have addressed these challenges coherently and with better success.

I say this as someone who swore off posting to OTP a few years back, for a variety of reasons, but still lurks occasionally. So I don't have a horse in this race.
   149. BrianBrianson Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5787412)
I mean, I liked OTP:P as much as the next guy. But I'm content to wait here until the conversation advances to movies that came our after my grandfather was born. ;)

In all seriousness, I got my parents to start watch Death in Paradise. But I don't think they've seen Father Ted, so they're not going to flip their #### when it gets to series six. So, I'm left a bit hard-up for pop culture chatter (or, I assume you call it soda chatter State-side?)
   150. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5787413)
or, I assume you call it soda chatter State-side?)


Coke chatter, you aider & abettor of Yankee philistinism.
   151. jmurph Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5787414)
In all seriousness, I got my parents to start watch Death in Paradise. But I don't think they've seen Father Ted, so they're not going to flip their #### when it gets to series six.

Ha, my wife (not technically but spiritually an elderly person, as she is only... 35? who can say for sure) loves that show, but I think is at least a season behind. Is there yet another new detective?
   152. McCoy Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5787418)
Saw The Equalizer 2 yesterday and it looks like they got a serious amount of foreign investment for it. Alas, it looks like the Equalizer will be Denzel's Taken. Pretty much stripped the character of any real drama or point to do the sequel. Kind of like John Wick in that regard.
   153. RJ in TO Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5787419)
In all seriousness, I got my parents to start watch Death in Paradise. But I don't think they've seen Father Ted, so they're not going to flip their #### when it gets to series six. So, I'm left a bit hard-up for pop culture chatter (or, I assume you call it soda chatter State-side?)

It it any good? I've only seen ads for it, from earlier seasons, but I am tempted to start watching it because of Ardal O'Hanlon.
   154. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 14, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5787423)
Anybody keeping up on The Good Place? Last week's ep was pretty good, with the reboot flashbacks. I always hate to go into too much detail talking about it, for people who haven't watched season one yet.

Someone overheard me and an office buddy talking about the series and, in particular, Jason. Watched the first few episodes and came back to us with "who the hell is this Jason you keep talking about? There's no Jason." We laughed.
   155. Lassus Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:10 PM (#5787433)
I just finished binging season 1 yesterday. I actually think watching it weekly would have been a bit cooler, a slower burn, but those days are kinda gone.

I'm somewhat glad for the shorter seasons, though. I've been trying to watch SHIELD, and it's incredibly daunting.

As for Good Place, while it is very good, I think (to nitpick) that I thought it would be a LITTLE better based on how much I've heard; but that's mostly me being a grump.
   156. BrianBrianson Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5787434)
Yeah - Father Dougal Mcguire is the third British detective.
   157. JJ1986 Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5787436)
I watched all of the Ben Miller Death-in-Paradises (and liked them), but I didn't like the next guy they brought in. At some point, I'll get to the ones with Dougal.
   158. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5787437)
Lassus - Were you spoiled as to the twist at the end of S1, or see it coming, or what? I'm always curious as to whether folks were taken in or not. I agree with you on the shorter seasons... I went back and binged S1 after the twist, and enjoyed thoroughly looking for indicators. A longer season, I would have been daunted.

EDIT: It occurs to me you might not have meant TGP originally.
   159. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5787438)
People on the basketball thread think that the basketball thread is pretty great, as far as I can tell.
---
Good Place: Yeah, it's the one sitcom I watch; I could watch Jason do anything all day.
It's a solid B+ show - more clever than funny, as a rule, but a handful of the jokes/moments are outstanding.
   160. jmurph Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5787439)
Yeah - Father Dougal Mcguire is the third British detective.

Oh okay, we must be caught up, as I've seen that guy already.
   161. Lassus Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5787440)
Lassus - Were you spoiled as to the twist at the end of S1, or see it coming, or what?

No, I wasn't and didn't. At first I thought it was Eleanor trying to be sneaky, with Michael and the real Eleanor following along. I only realized it with the meeting.
   162. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5787442)
I googled Night Circus the last time you mentioned it. The book was conceived of and begun during National Novel Writing Month, which is, as it sounds, a national event where people attempt to write an entire novel in the span of a single month. You have to produce nearly 2,000 words per day, the goal being 50,000 total words.
I did NaNoWriMo several times in the aughts, and won (i.e., banged out 50K somewhat connected words) three times. It can be tremendous fun if you approach it in the right way, and it's surprising how non-terrible some of the writing can be. My second published story began as a chapter in my 2002 NaNoWriMo novel, and didn't require any more re-working than a typical story first draft would. I mean, I ultimately wrote 50K words to get 2.5K usable ones, but that's not a terrible ratio in the grand scheme of things.
I myself attempted this 6-7 years ago. I quit after three days, which were among the most stressful of my entire life, because every second of leisure time was spent grappling with this task. My problem is that I actually tried to write a good fictional novel, tried to polish the prose, tried to structure it. Huge mistake! If I were to try it again, there'd be zero ambition, zero editing, just an unreadably bad stream of consciousness diary / biography. That must be what most people produce. Not sure what pride there'd be in that, so if I tried it again, I'd do something fictional again, but you clearly have to be comfortable with just rambling and making absurd tangents up and just going with it.
I wrote actual fiction with characters and setting and something resembling a plot. One key to getting through a NaNoWriMo novel is that you have to be willing to let mistakes go and just get on with it. If you realize that you're telling the story the wrong way, switch and don't worry about it. It's fine if the first third of the novel is in third person past tense and the last two-thirds are in first person present tense. Another thing is to always remember that the forced march of writing is an excellent opportunity to throw #### against the wall and see what sticks. I.e., make absurd tangents up and just go with it. If the "novel" doesn't suck 110% and you want to turn it into something good, you can fix all of the problems in the three years of rewrites you're going to have to do anyway.
   163. Swoboda is freedom Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5787446)
Yeah - Father Dougal Mcguire is the third British detective.


Father Ted was one of the greatest shows ever. I only saw a couple of episodes of the Death in Paradise first season. Is it worth watching. It seemed very derivative. (Doc Martin, Broadchurch, Monk)
   164. BrianBrianson Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5787448)
It's a solid B+ show - more clever than funny, as a rule, but a handful of the jokes/moments are outstanding.


So, it's no Father Ted, then?
   165. PreservedFish Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5787451)
Fernigal, are you a writer by trade?
   166. jmurph Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5787452)
I only saw a couple of episodes of the Death in Paradise first season. Is it worth watching. It seemed very derivative. (Doc Martin, Broadchurch, Monk)

Broadchurch is very out of place there, I think, that's a much, much darker show than the others.

But I agree with the rest of your list, it's of a piece with the sort of goofier detective shows.
   167. Swoboda is freedom Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5787454)
Broadchurch is very out of place there, I think, that's a much, much darker show than the others.


Yes, much darker, but thinking big city detective in small town.
   168. jmurph Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5787460)
Yes, much darker, but thinking big city detective in small town.

Oh right, okay. I think there's about 11 more of those on Netflix in various languages, too, that I haven't dug into yet.
   169. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:40 PM (#5787461)
Good Place: Yeah, it's the one sitcom I watch; I could watch Jason do anything all day.


Whoever cast the actor that played his father a few weeks ago deserves the Medal of Freedom.

   170. Sebastian Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5787464)
I recently rewatched season 1 of the good place and I honestly thought it was funnier the second time around. I still don’t want to give away the surprise, but saying that Ted Danson is fantastic is not much of a spoiler, is it?
   171. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5787465)
I don't like the lounge format either, but the guys there love it, and have been loving it for many years. It's a robust little community.


What I love about BTF, #1 of course is the baseball knowledge of the community.

#2 is the level of discourse. For the most part, posters are thoughtful, sincere and can use complete sentences.

And a big #3 is the layout: no pictures, no memes, and linear comments. I use Reddit too, which is fun, but it's difficult to have a running conversation because of the up/down nature of the comments.
   172. BrianBrianson Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5787466)
I only saw a couple of episodes of the Death in Paradise first season. Is it worth watching.


I find it pleasant but not really compelling, if that makes sense.

I watch it, I like it - but I don't feel like you need to watch it, the way I would if you hadn't seen Father Ted (to grab the topical example).
   173. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5787470)
I still don’t want to give away the surprise, but saying that Ted Danson is fantastic is not much of a spoiler, is it?


I had never heard of the TV show "Damages" until Kristen Bell mentioned it in her WTF interview. It's a trashy legal drama (in the best way) that ran for five seasons in the late 2000s. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne are the stars, with Danson playing the villain of Season One. It streams on Amazon Prime
   174. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: November 14, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5787471)
Fernigal, are you a writer by trade?
No, I'm a hanger on. I've been on the staffs of three literary magazines and have published a handful of stories and a slightly larger handful of poems, but that's it.
   175. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: November 14, 2018 at 03:00 PM (#5787473)
with Danson playing the villain of Season One


ahhh, Art Frobisher...

Danson was also great on Bored to Death, a quirky HBO comedy with Danson, Zack Gallifianakis, and Jason Schwartzman.
   176. PreservedFish Posted: November 14, 2018 at 03:13 PM (#5787483)
I like Reddit a lot, and if someone started a BTF exiles subreddit, I'd join. Tough to imagine it taking off in any meaningful way though.
   177. PreservedFish Posted: November 14, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5787492)
Ok I'll stop being negative.
   178. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 14, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5787498)
Andy:

I saw your post about our election bet before the thread closed. I'm ok with canceling the bet if you are. The fun of the bet was that it was done in the context of the OTP thread. Without the OTP community to discuss the bet in, the bet is not as fun.

That said, I'm obviously happy and willing to keep the bet if you want to. Your call. I will chide you about it over email if I have to but somehow that's not the same.

We could simply wait to see what happens after the dust of the OTP closure settles. I doubt I'll follow the OTP community to the forums because I don't like the formatting there. (Can the OTP thread simply be moved to the forums without changing the interface?) I haven't yet decided whether I will continue to post here or not.
   179. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: November 14, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5787500)
(I've never seen Father Ted.)
Linehan's a funny guy but his work has never clicked with me. (Which is too bad, as one of my GF's comfort food type show is Black Books.)
Then again, the British comedy that has most resonated with me over the years is Jam, so ... not sure what that means about me.

Whoever cast the actor that played his father a few weeks ago deserves the Medal of Freedom.
That show is very good at casting, their choices wrt to how to cast characters with Australian accents notwithstanding.
   180. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 14, 2018 at 04:27 PM (#5787516)
I love the Good Place. I have watched Death in Paradise through Netflix a while back with my wife, I suppose I should check if there are new episodes. We tend to watch lighter fare together.
   181. Howie Menckel Posted: November 14, 2018 at 04:39 PM (#5787523)
I stopped posting on the OTP thread maybe a week ago because I realized I had swallowed troll bait so I figured I'd take a little time. Now I will tell myself my absence killed it.
:)

in other news, I stumbled onto a radio interview yesterday with a guy who just wrote a book on 10 years of Teddy Roosevelt diaries. That is the last thing that would interest me, yet I wound up mesmerized by the interview - and you guys like history. it's from when he starts at Harvard until he nears his rise to the political zenith.
   182. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 14, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5787528)
Does anyone here watch "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia", and have thoughts on the season finale?

   183. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 14, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5787532)
181- Ha! Did the same thing, left right after you, now it’s gone. We were the glue holding it together!
   184. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: November 14, 2018 at 04:52 PM (#5787536)
182: Thought the first 2/3 of it was adequate (would rate it a C+/B- like most of the rest of the season), but I kind of hated the closing scene. Did not get what they were going for, and I kept waiting for a payoff that never came. Felt very much out of place with everything else the show has ever done. I don't think it worked.

From what I gather, opinion seems to be split between the way I felt and "Unbelievably moving and inspirational!"
   185. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 14, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5787540)
Andy:

I saw your post about our election bet before the thread closed. I'm ok with canceling the bet if you are. The fun of the bet was that it was done in the context of the OTP thread. Without the OTP community to discuss the bet in, the bet is not as fun.


Personally I'd rather keep the bet going, since although I agree that it was more fun within the context of the OTP community, I still think it had / has a life of its own. And of course I think I'll win. (smile)

That said, I'm obviously happy and willing to keep the bet if you want to. Your call. I will chide you about it over email if I have to but somehow that's not the same.

Well, since my soothsaying abilities weren't exactly perfect the last time around, I doubt if I'm in much of a position to snark.

That said, why don't I give you the option of cancelling at any point between now and the end of the year. Is that okay? And of course if it slips your mind and you want to cancel it sometime in January, I won't hold you to the 2018 deadline.** We rag on each other all the time in OTP, but I hope you realize that in spite of all the heat and sarcasm, it's never been personal on my part. If I'd ever really meant it to be personal, I would've put you on Ignore, and I assume you'd have done the same.

We could simply wait to see what happens after the dust of the OTP closure settles. I doubt I'll follow the OTP community to the forums because I don't like the formatting there. (Can the OTP thread simply be moved to the forums without changing the interface?) I haven't yet decided whether I will continue to post here or not.

I haven't yet decided, either, though I know I'll never bother with those "community forums" / Lounge, or whatever they call it. Whoever designed that format must be a refugee from the Soviet Bureau of Planning.

** And of course you've got my email, so any decision you make about our bet might best be transmitted that way, since I may or may not see it if you just posted it here.
   186. Man o' Schwar Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5787544)
Does anyone here watch "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia", and have thoughts on the season finale?

I really liked it, and I commend them for going that far out of the normal comfort zone of the show. Mac's gayness has been an underlying thread for so many seasons, it was fascinating to watch them give it this kind of air time and explore the struggle that (I'm sure) a lot of people deal with, particularly people who may have not-too-enthusiastic parents and a repressive (from a gay point of view) religious upbringing. The ending also really paid off Mac's physical transformation into fit Mac.

Also - we get reminded that Danny DeVito is a hell of an actor. There were a lot of complaints that I read online that hated the episode because it really only included the 2 characters, but in retrospect I think the others would have ruined the resonance of the last scene. Dennis would have just continued to put Mac down, Charlie would have been confused by the whole thing, and Dee likely would have made it about herself in some way. Frank's reaction (especially after he admitted in earlier episodes that he never really "got" Mac) was perfect, and he revealed himself as the surrogate father that Mac has been looking for.

I'm not surprised there were split opinions (and I'm sure they anticipated it as well).
   187. Zonk Can't Hide his Disdain or Disgust Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5787545)
I haven't yet decided, either, though I know I'll never bother with those "community forums" / Lounge, or whatever they call it. Whoever designed that format must be a refugee from the Soviet Bureau of Planning.


You will once you discover you can pillory Dan with almost Mikhail Zoshchenko-esque impunity...
   188. Man o' Schwar Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5787548)
Also, the Good Place is my favorite show on TV right now, and one of the best sitcoms of the decade. Ted Danson is a national treasure. Whoever said that his performance in Season 1 was terrific is spot on (especially after the end of season reveal - if you go back and rewatch, it's even better).

Any show that can get people talking about moral philosophy is OK in my book. It's better than another generic sitcom where the hot wife berates her fat husband for 22 minutes.
   189. BrianBrianson Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5787550)
(I've never seen Father Ted.)


Oh, gosh, now we're going to end up with the same kind of threats that killed OTP...

I mean ... it's British TV - you can polish off a whole series over breakfast. But then again, I haven't seen Jam ... and I do love everything Linehan's done that I've seen. The IT Crowd episode "The Work Outing" may be the funniest episode of a sitcom I've ever seen.
   190. phredbird Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:17 PM (#5787551)

the phredbird report:

long time poster, off and on ...

i want to add a voice to those who are upset with OTP threads being shut down and moved. the forum area is unwieldy and extremely, in my experience, insider-ish.

i go back to the days before registration, if anyone can remember that wild west period. and i also was around when many of us began to notice that it seemed like almost every thread devolved into some kind of political pissing match. to me, there was never a time one couldn't just work around that situation, either by ignoring certain posters or just getting off the thread if no one wanted to engage on one's preferred level. there was always something else going on.

and then there's always the wider option. get off the site for a while.

if memory serves, i left for a long time around 2009 or 2010 (my timeline might be a bit fuzzy) when people like kevin and joey b. and joe kehoskie were making everyone's life miserable. ray, there's a couple of right wingers for you who make sam seem almost quaint. and while we are on the subject, i do find that, while the lefties on the site now like to throw around more name calling than seems necessary, i am constantly stunned by the level of bad faith debating, victim-card playing, disingenuousness and general concern trolling coming from the right under their self-defined idea of debate.

my way of dealing with those problems is to stay away from OTP most of the time, but i see it as a necessary evil if the other threads are going to continue to have a semblance of life and relevance.

for instance, i think the culture thread has turned out to be a wonderful idea. it would be a shame if that thread suffers from the overall site losing posters over the OTP business.

if there is a way to reach jim and ask him to reconsider, i urge all to do so.

excelsior!

   191. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:24 PM (#5787555)
That said, why don't I give you the option of cancelling at any point between now and the end of the year. Is that okay? And of course if it slips your mind and you want to cancel it sometime in January, I won't hold you to the 2018 deadline.**


Sure. I mean, I'm fine with keeping it, so let's just keep it.

We rag on each other all the time in OTP, but I hope you realize that in spite of all the heat and sarcasm, it's never been personal on my part. If I'd ever really meant it to be personal, I would've put you on Ignore, and I assume you'd have done the same.


Agreed.
   192. phredbird Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:28 PM (#5787557)

ok, nevermind.

i didn't realize it had already been done and a bunch of people had already migrated there.

maybe it will work after all.

i'll go back to sleep.

but stay tuned to this thread ... i am very close to finishing all 6 volumes of 'my struggle', so i'll certainly have comments then, and i'm sure all of you — well, some of you — well somebody maybe — will want to talk a bit about it and what will go on my night table next.

   193. Man o' Schwar Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:30 PM (#5787558)
FWIW, I'm with Jim on this. It's his site, and he has to deal with the fallout from it. If 90% of the complaints he's getting are arising out of one particular thread that has nothing to do with baseball, it's not hard to fathom that eliminating that thread would make his life a whole lot easier without really damaging the core reason for the site.

I guess the other option would have been closer moderation of the thread itself, and suspending/banning people who don't seem to be able to post without all the name calling and general assholeish behavior, but that's going to take a lot more of his time and probably get to the same result as most of the top posters end up banned from the site eventually. He could have appointed people to help, but whoever it was who did the moderating would have ultimately incurred the wrath of the OT:P posters, and Jim would have received more complaints from those folks that their posts were being removed, that they were being suspended, etc. Same amount of complaints from the same source, just a different spin on them.

There was a lot of upset when the Lounge was exiled maybe 10 years ago now? And IIRC it was sent to the forums for some of the same reasons - Jim was getting complaints about off-color, sexually suggestive, etc. posts that had nothing to do with baseball, and it was easier for him to just carve out a separate area than to try to deal with it on a post-by-post/poster-by-poster basis.

For those who actively participated in OT:P - would you have been able/willing to remake the thread as one where discussion is limited to civil posts that don't devolve into yelling at each other, threatening, calling each other names, etc.? Because every time I looked in there, that's described about 80% of the posts (and posters). It is possible to have a measured discussion about politics, even in the currently insane situation in this country. It didn't particularly feel like anyone on this site was interested in that, though.

   194. McCoy Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5787562)
Sure. I agree it is his site and he can do whatever he wants but I'm pretty sure the 90% of the complaints are coming from a very very small group of people. Perhaps even one.

The lounge didn't get exiled. They didn't want anything to do with a lot of posters on the mainland and were quite happy to be away from the mainland.
   195. . Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5787563)
Well, let the record note that two or three weeks or whatever after I quit because the threads had become cesspools of violent threats and bogus associations, the threads got permanently closed down by the site's moderator because they had become cesspools of violent threats and bogus associations.

Nice work, guys.
   196. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5787565)
FWIW, I'm with Jim on this. It's his site, and he has to deal with the fallout from it. If 90% of the complaints he's getting are arising out of one particular thread that has nothing to do with baseball, it's not hard to fathom that eliminating that thread would make his life a whole lot easier without really damaging the core reason for the site.


It is his choice, but it might be a case of cutting off his nose to spite his face. The OTP regulars contribute a significant amount of traffic and content to the other threads. Forcing them into exile, whether it be the forums, which eliminates easy access to the other threads. A seamless transition from OTP to the Zack Grienke thread is no longer possible. Or losing them altogether, which may be me. Fhe format in the forums is awful, and as of now I have no interest in participating there. I won't completely leave, but I can certainly see spending far less time here. I suspect that I'm not alone among the most prolific non-OTP posters.

JMO
   197. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:49 PM (#5787566)
Well, let the record note that two or three weeks or whatever after I quit because the threads had become cesspools of violent threats and bogus associations, the threads got permanently closed down by the site's moderator because they had become cesspools of violent threats and bogus associations.


Everything was fine until Dan went postal.
   198. McCoy Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:51 PM (#5787568)
I personally think it was the bringing up of the Mormon thing that caused it all and virtually no one involved in OTP was part of that.
   199. Swoboda is freedom Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:53 PM (#5787572)
Well, let the record note that two or three weeks or whatever after I quit because the threads had become cesspools of violent threats and bogus associations, the threads got permanently closed down by the site's moderator because they had become cesspools of violent threats and bogus associations.


There were only 2 people that regularly crossed the line and added nothing but insults. Sam and Dan. Everyone else had more signal to noise, even if they sometimes went off the rails. (to mix metaphors nicely)
   200. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: November 14, 2018 at 05:53 PM (#5787573)
I personally think it was the bringing up of the Mormon thing that caused it all and virtually no one involved in OTP was part of that.


Which is, as I understand it, another way of echoing Misirlou's #197.
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