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Friday, November 02, 2018

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (November 2018)

Before she arrived on the Vancouver set of Deadpool 2 in mid-August 2017, Joi Harris had never performed a stunt. She’d never been anywhere near a movie or TV set, for that matter. Producers and studio 20th Century Fox wanted an African-American double for Zazie Beetz, who’d been cast in the role of Domino. They hired Harris, 40, who had done some motorcycle racing, and flew her in a couple of days before the shoot. The sequence was pretty straightforward. It called for a rider, sitting astride a powerful Ducati 939 Hyperstrada motorcycle, to coast down a set of planks that had been laid over a few stairs. Harris would be traveling about 5 miles an hour, though onscreen it would be made to look as if she were going much faster.

As the day approached, several experienced stunt performers who had been training Harris all weekend say they told producers and the stunt coordinator they believed Harris wasn’t ready. They warned the production that racing on a track was very different from performing in front of cameras and an audience. Producers stuck to the plan. Canada’s workplace safety agency, WorkSafeBC, hasn’t released its final report on what happened next, but three people familiar with that day’s shoot say they watched in horror as Harris, on the first live take, lost control of the bike. She hung on as it sped across a street at high speed before hitting a planter, which sent her hurtling headfirst through a plate glass window. She wasn’t wearing a helmet. It was 9:30 in the morning, and her very first stunt would also be her last.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 02, 2018 at 04:50 PM | 1213 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   501. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 20, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5789812)
Haven't seen it yet but I'm hearing great recommendations about The Man in the High Castle.
   502. McCoy Posted: November 20, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5789815)
I wanted to watch that but I think I couldn’t get through the first episode.
   503. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 20, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5789817)
Yeah but you don't like Gruyere cheese, so your input is suspect.
   504. jmurph Posted: November 20, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5789818)
(moving from other thread)
I didn't necessarily mean it as an indictment of quality (though, there isn't an Amazon original I've tried to watch I haven't found boring - but okay, maybe they're just not for me). But just - monotony. Like every original show they've made has been targetted at my mother in law.

Acknowledging that I don't know your mother in law, I don't think this is true. Unless she's super into english soccer, cop shows, Jack Ryan, formula 1 racing, trans people, etc. I don't think they've made as many original shows as Netflix, and perhaps the quality isn't the same, but I think the diversity of topics is pretty similar.

Per the Disney buys YES thread, are there any Amazon Original series/movies that are worth watching?

I like(d) Catastrophe and Forever a lot. Mozart in the Jungle has its charms. Patriot is okay, and apparently season 2 is better. Jack Ryan was okay, not great.
   505. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 20, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5789819)
Yeah but you don't like Gruyere cheese, so your input is suspect.

I like the town of Gruyere; I've actually been there. The cheese is stinky though.
   506. Biscuit_pants Posted: November 20, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5789823)
Yeah but you don't like Gruyere cheese
I love mixing a little bit of Gruyere in scrambled eggs.
   507. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 20, 2018 at 04:52 PM (#5789824)
Amazon Studios has helped produce and distribute several fine movies: Chi-Raq, Manchester by the Sea, The Handmaiden, I Am Not Your Negro, Wonderstruck, The Big Sick, etc. They have good relationships with the theater chains, it would seem, as I’ve been able to see all of those on the big screen here in Minneapolis.

I assume all their tv shows are terrible (because they are tv shows), but can not confirm, as I’ve not watched any.
   508. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 20, 2018 at 04:54 PM (#5789825)
There’s a Jim Jarmusch original on Amazon, “Paterson”, that’s quite good.

I think “The Lost City of Z” is an Amazon original. I liked it more than I think most people would because I’d read about Percy Fawcett’s doomed Amazon expedition since I was a kid so I was especially focused on the story.
   509. Master of the Horse Posted: November 20, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5789827)
504--Catastrophe is awesome. Or was. Lost track when it resumes.
   510. BrianBrianson Posted: November 20, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5789829)
Yes, I've seen Catastrophe, and agree it's quite good. But it's a Channel 4 show. Amazon merely bought the American distribution rights.
   511. RJ in TO Posted: November 20, 2018 at 05:34 PM (#5789834)
Per the Disney buys YES thread, are there any Amazon Original series/movies that are worth watching?


I enjoyed The Tick, and The Grand Tour. Comrade Detective is also amusing. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and Transparent have also generally drawn good reviews, although I've watched neither.
   512. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 20, 2018 at 07:46 PM (#5789860)
Where were people discussing Adrien Beltre's retirement? I wanted to email BDC to see if I couldn't lure him back to weigh in but now I don't see where folks were talking about it.
   513. McCoy Posted: November 20, 2018 at 07:50 PM (#5789863)
Yeah but you don't like Gruyere cheese, so your input is suspect.

That was told in confidence!
   514. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 20, 2018 at 07:53 PM (#5789865)
Yeah but you don't like Gruyere cheese, so your input is suspect.

That was told in confidence
Better hope PreservedFish doesn’t catch wind of this, or he will declare you a fraidy-cat entitled baby or some such.
   515. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 20, 2018 at 07:57 PM (#5789867)
Where were people discussing Adrien Beltre's retirement?


Now that the site-draining distraction of OTP has been solved, a Beltre thread will be up on the Newsstand page by Thursday afternoon at the latest.
   516. McCoy Posted: November 20, 2018 at 08:01 PM (#5789870)
I saw one earlier. I'm guessing no one approved it but somebody did the backdoor thing on it so there was 13 posts in it before I bumped it back up. yeah, it's the users that are to blame for the problems of BTF.
   517. PreservedFish Posted: November 20, 2018 at 08:49 PM (#5789880)
Better hope PreservedFish doesn’t catch wind of this, or he will declare you a fraidy-cat entitled baby or some such.

No, that's just horrible taste. Gruyere is one of the world's great cheeses, and as maybe the world's most delicious and complex melting cheese, it's indispensable in the kitchen.

Fraidy-cat is what I call snapper. Gruyere stinky? If he thinks Gruyere is stinky, one wonders that he'd make of Epoisses or Taleggio or Saint-Nectaire!
   518. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:20 PM (#5789889)
Fraidy-cat is what I call snapper. Gruyere stinky? If he thinks Gruyere is stinky, one wonders that he'd make of Epoisses or Taleggio or Saint-Nectaire!

Wouldn't know.

I basically eat Parmesan, Mozzarella, and Romano. Except for Pizza, it's always grated and mixed in to something.

Eating a piece of cheese has about as much appeal to me as eating a stick of butter.
   519. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:24 PM (#5789891)
Anyone else watch the first two episodes of the new HBO series, My Brilliant Friend?
   520. McCoy Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:26 PM (#5789892)
Taleggio. Yuck
   521. PreservedFish Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5789893)
Taleggio is so ####### good.
   522. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5789895)
Is Talleggio on Amazon Prime, or Netflix?
   523. McCoy Posted: November 20, 2018 at 09:55 PM (#5789896)
Then I’ll give you my socks and you can rub them over your mouth and nose.
   524. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 20, 2018 at 10:31 PM (#5789899)
"Bosch" is a solid cop show on Prime.

The new show with Julia Roberts, "Homecoming", has strong reviews. I hope to dig into that one this weekend.
   525. KB JBAR (trhn) Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:04 PM (#5789903)
Homecoming is good. 25-30 minutes an episode. Stylish and director-ly. With an interesting, but relatively slight, theme.

Forever is pleasant. 25-30 minutes an episode. Stylish. Very slight.

Watched the first episode of Little Drummer Girl. It's a bit overwhelming. And clocking in at 55 minutes, it was a bit longer than my ideal episode length. I will be finishing it, though.
   526. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 20, 2018 at 11:17 PM (#5789905)
I liked "Homecoming" when it was a podcast. Catherine Keener was voicing the therapist and Oscar Isaac the soldier.
   527. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 21, 2018 at 05:00 AM (#5789916)
No, that's just horrible taste. Gruyere is one of the world's great cheeses, and as maybe the world's most delicious and complex melting cheese, it's indispensable in the kitchen.

Fraidy-cat is what I call snapper. Gruyere stinky? If he thinks Gruyere is stinky, one wonders that he'd make of Epoisses or Taleggio or Saint-Nectaire!
I like gruyere just fine, so I have no horse in this race, but just out of curiosity: Are you ever OK with anyone disliking any food item?
   528. BrianBrianson Posted: November 21, 2018 at 06:53 AM (#5789917)
Gruyere is a pretty tame cheese. Shropshire Blue, now that's a cheese. Puts even Oxford Blue to shame.

Are you ever OK with anyone disliking any food item?


Balut, Baiju, Hakral, Casu Marzu, Surstromming ...
   529. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 07:21 AM (#5789919)
Little Cesar’s pizza.
   530. BrianBrianson Posted: November 21, 2018 at 10:04 AM (#5789950)
... sannakji, that dim sum dish that Wikipedia just calls "beef entrails", bud light lime ...
   531. The Good Face Posted: November 21, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5789958)
San-nakji is great. Makes you feel like you're at a Klingon wedding or something.

I draw the line at Casu Marzu though. Hard nope.
   532. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5789959)
Gruyere is a pretty tame cheese.

I generally dislike cheese. Not a big fan of dairy in general. Haven't had a glass of milk since I was like 5, and my Mom stopped forcing me.

I like gruyere just fine, so I have no horse in this race, but just out of curiosity: Are you ever OK with anyone disliking any food item?

Good meta point to raise. I'm not sure why some people are so gung ho on food "adventurism".

There's enough food that I love that I never going to get enough of them without getting fat. I'm never going to be bored by food. Given that, why should I try things I find distasteful in order to develop a taste for them?
   533. Swoboda is freedom Posted: November 21, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5789962)
Amazon Prime Shows that I liked

Forever- It was light but flowed
Patriot- Darker, but interesting
Marvelous Mrs Maisel- Terrific. Nominated for several Emmys. Won for best comedy. Definitely worth a view.
The Tick- really funny
Catastrophe- wanted to like it, but it was not to my taste.
Jack Ryan- Good cast and Krasinski gave it a really nice touch. Plus Wendell Pierce (Bunk) is good.


Man in High Castle- didn't like it.
Homecoming- watched the first couple of episodes, not terrific but there is a big reveal at end.

Agree about Paterson the movie. Very good.
   534. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5789964)
There's enough food that I love that I never going to get enough of them without getting fat. I'm never going to be bored by food. Given that, why should I try things I find distasteful in order to develop a taste for them?

Because it's a millennial thing to do. I kind of understand it. Their outlook is that they are basically not going to own a Ferrari or a Picasso or have a 500 acre ranch with a 15,000 sq ft home so they value adventures and experiences. Trying the rotting rectum of a manatee is an adventure and it is an affordable adventure to have.
   535. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: November 21, 2018 at 10:38 AM (#5789969)
"Bosch" is a solid cop show on Prime.


Seconded. Also enjoyed Mozart in the Jungle. Haven't watched many Amazon shows. Will have to check out some of the ones listed here.
   536. BrianBrianson Posted: November 21, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5789981)
Perhaps something like that - live life while you're living, for you're a long time dead. I don't know that it's exclusive to owning a Ferrari or a Picasso or whatnot. And really, a 15,000 sq. foot home is just a full-time cleaning job. If money's no object, I'd still rather have a 1200 square foot home - just, put it on Islay. With a bit of land and privacy, sure.
   537. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5789984)
Sure I'm just saying the old status markers had to do with wealth and what you could do with it. The new status markers are what have you done, what have you tried.
   538. BrianBrianson Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5789987)
Maybe a bit, but I'd like to think it's also partly a rejection of status markers (perhaps a vanity, or you'll say a status marker in itself). But it's not so conspicuous, so it's not really conspicuous consumption. And like, craft beer is something to share, in a way you can't share a Banksy (excepting the one).
   539. PreservedFish Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5789988)

There's enough food that I love that I never going to get enough of them without getting fat. I'm never going to be bored by food. Given that, why should I try things I find distasteful in order to develop a taste for them?


We've had this argument in the past, in detail. Your opinion is unfathomable to me.

Also, the way you set it up here has both a false dichotomy and a falsehood.

False dichotomy: Food either bores your or doesn't bore you. Nope. There's a spectrum of boring/exciting. I can be excited eating nothing but French and Italian food. But I'm more excited if I get to eat new stuff too. More exciting is better than less exciting.
The falsehood: That all new foods are acquired tastes. That's just flatly incorrect.
   540. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5789989)
Because it's a millennial thing to do. I kind of understand it. Their outlook is that they are basically not going to own a Ferrari or a Picasso or have a 500 acre ranch with a 15,000 sq ft home so they value adventures and experiences. Trying the rotting rectum of a manatee is an adventure and it is an affordable adventure to have.

But, that's a fundamentally dangerous world view. If you only get joy out of the new and adventurous, the reality of life is going to wear you down really fast.

Sure I'm just saying the old status markers had to do with wealth and what you could do with it. The new status markers are what have you done, what have you tried.

Yeah, well eating funky food, and travelling to Somalia aren't going to keep me in comfort when I'm old, so I think I'll take the money.

Also, money makes travelling oh so much more fun. My rule of vacations is that if my standard of living isn't going up, I ain't going.
   541. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5789990)
Maybe a bit, but I'd like to think it's also partly a rejection of status markers (perhaps a vanity, or you'll say a status marker in itself). But it's not so conspicuous, so it's not really conspicuous consumption. And like, craft beer is something to share, in a way you can't share a Banksy (excepting the one).

If you can't have it you reject it. You sneer at it. The communists used the same playbook.
   542. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5789992)
But, that's a fundamentally dangerous world view. If you only get joy out of the new and adventurous, the reality of life is going to wear you down really fast.

Youth gets worn down all time. That's how you get old. All generations had their youthful wild streak before settling down to the mundane.
   543. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5789994)
Also, money makes travelling oh so much more fun. My rule of vacations is that if my standard of living isn't going up, I ain't going.

For some young 22 year old they are traveling with either the same standard of living or better when they backpack through Europe. The difference is you're older and making a lot more money than they are.
   544. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5789996)
We've had this argument in the past, in detail. Your opinion is unfathomable to me.

Also, the way you set it up here has both a false dichotomy and a falsehood.

False dichotomy: Food either bores your or doesn't bore you. Nope. There's a spectrum of boring/exciting. I can be excited eating nothing but French and Italian food. But I'm more excited if I get to eat new stuff too. More exciting is better than less exciting.


I get pleasure from eating, but excitement has nothing to do with it. To me all good meals are essentially equal, whether it's something I've had 1000 times or never before. I don't get less pleasure from a really good steak or pizza because I've had it many, many times.

There is a point of overkill (you don't want to eat the same meal 4 times a week), but I can eat a steak once a week for the rest of my life and enjoy every one of them equally.
   545. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:13 AM (#5789997)
Youth gets worn down all time. That's how you get old. All generations had their youthful wild streak before settling down to the mundane.

Honestly, I never did. I've been mentally middle aged since I was a child.

For some young 22 year old they are traveling with either the same standard of living or better when they backpack through Europe. The difference is you're older and making a lot more money than they are.

Not for me. At that age, I'd much rather work all summer, and do a 1-2 week vacation where I stayed in nice hotels and ate in good restaurants, than spend 3 months living like a hobo.
   546. BrianBrianson Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5790004)
If you can't have it you reject it. You sneer at it. The communists used the same playbook.


I don't really think that's right. Things that ain't white elephants are still worthwhile. When my wife and I talked about what we'd do if we won the 1.5 gigadollar lottery, we did discuss some expensive cars, and whiskies that break $10k/bottle, say. Or scads of land around our 1500 sq.ft. house. It ain't that there's no expensive things I'd like to have. I'd put a Tom Thomson on the mantle if I could manage it. But that's some quality art. But buying things to impress other people? Forget that.

There's enough food that I love that I never going to get enough of them without getting fat. I'm never going to be bored by food. Given that, why should I try things I find distasteful in order to develop a taste for them?


And, of course, it took me ~10 beers to start to like them. And hell, ~10 steaks (was how long it took me to find out they're not always cooked well done). Completely worthwhile.

Yeah, well eating funky food, and travelling to Somalia aren't going to keep me in comfort when I'm old, so I think I'll take the money.


You can be buried with your money, but it won't do you any good, eh?
   547. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5790006)

You can be buried with your money, but it won't do you any good, eh?


You can also be fermented with your kimchi, I suppose.
   548. The Good Face Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5790007)
Maybe a bit, but I'd like to think it's also partly a rejection of status markers (perhaps a vanity, or you'll say a status marker in itself). But it's not so conspicuous, so it's not really conspicuous consumption. And like, craft beer is something to share, in a way you can't share a Banksy (excepting the one).


Buying experiences is a status marker as well. Not everybody can afford to climb Everest, trek the Sahara in a camel caravan, or dive with manta rays in Polynesia.
   549. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5790012)
Honestly, I never did. I've been mentally middle aged since I was a child.

Aren't you an accountant or something like that?
   550. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5790014)
I don't really think that's right. Things that ain't white elephants are still worthwhile. When my wife and I talked about what we'd do if we won the 1.5 gigadollar lottery, we did discuss some expensive cars, and whiskies that break $10k/bottle, say. Or scads of land around our 1500 sq.ft. house. It ain't that there's no expensive things I'd like to have. I'd put a Tom Thomson on the mantle if I could manage it. But that's some quality art. But buying things to impress other people? Forget that.

For the most part it wasn't and has never been about impressing other people. Well, I mean all experiences share that so it isn't the differentiator (if that is a word). Instagramming your trek through Nepal or eating manateee rectum is akin to showing off your 200ft yacht.
   551. Rennie's Tenet Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5790015)
Buying experiences is a status marker as well.


I'm pretty sure it's all a genetic display of fitness. Some of it's pretty pathetic and weird, but I think the genes just keep spinning and spinning.
   552. PreservedFish Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5790016)
I like gruyere just fine, so I have no horse in this race, but just out of curiosity: Are you ever OK with anyone disliking any food item?


I could give you a 1,000+ word answer on this. I'll try and be brief:

I tend to be dismissive when people offer what appear to be childish justifications for their food aversions. For example, "I don't like the texture of mushrooms." "I don't eat seafood." It literally sounds childish, that is, something a child would say, and represents the sort of pickiness that most people grow out of.

I also usually suspect that the picky people just haven't given the named ingredient fair shake. Like, you hate cauliflower, but have you ever had it cooked really perfectly?

And so much of the criticism comes from a sadness that people aren't enjoying these things that are great and could be enjoyed. I honestly think that if you refuse to eat X, Y and Z, your life is in some small way diminished. You're getting less out of life than you could. You don't like oysters? Sucks to be you, because I get to enjoy oysters, and you don't.

There's also an inherent haughtiness to pickiness. "Would you like to try this cauliflower?" "No, my special irrational preferences will not allow me to."

This can also lead to a type of rudeness in pickiness. If I come over to your house, I will try everything you serve. I think it's rude to do otherwise.

And as a side note, these preferences are very frequently expressed in very arrogant and annoying terms, eg, zonk's "Onions - together with broccoli and cauliflower, probably a few others - really ought to get wiped from the earth by some kind of crappy vegetable plague." (I think the arrogance is probably a defensive posture because he knows that his opinion is pathetic.) But I think it should go without saying that I'd have more respect for such an opinion couched in more modest terms.

Basically I think that pride in pickiness is kind of like pride in ignorance. It's a way of willingly closing one's self off to the world. (I'm not just like this about food, I have similar opinions about other things too. "Country/rap sucks, nuff said" doesn't impress me much)

Some preferences are hard-coded. Your aversion to mayonnaise may be like that, something that exists for unknowable reasons and could never be overcome. Snapper's aversion to cheese. Tough to judge over the internet.

Now, all that said, does it mean everything in the world is worth eating? Of course not, some food is garbage. But I don't think there's a single raw ingredient I would write off, 100%.
   553. PreservedFish Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5790017)
God that wasn't brief at all, and I edited it heavily.
   554. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5790018)
You can be buried with your money, but it won't do you any good, eh?

But, it can be exchanged for good and services. Memories of suffering dysentery in Bhutan can't.
   555. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5790019)
Aren't you an accountant or something like that?

No. I have degrees in economics and finance. I do analytics for a living.
   556. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5790021)
You're getting less out of life than you could. You don't like oysters? Sucks to be you, because I get to enjoy oysters, and you don't.

Here's the thing. If I don't like oysters (and I don't, they're just slimy and salty) I'm getting MORE out of life by not eating them. I substitute something I really like (say a crab cocktail) and am far happier.

As long as you have enough stuff that you like so as not to get to diminishing enjoyment because you eat the same thing every day, extra variety doesn't really help your total enjoyment.

Maybe the difference is you get sick of foods much, much faster than I do. You can give me a really good doughnut for breakfast 4 times a week, and I'll be happy. Pizza every Friday night; sign me up.
   557. BrianBrianson Posted: November 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5790025)
Instagramming your trek through Nepal or eating manateee rectum is akin to showing off your 200ft yacht.


Buying experiences is a status marker as well. Not everybody can afford to climb Everest, trek the Sahara in a camel caravan, or dive with manta rays in Polynesia.


Only if people know - so, Instagramming, sure.

... And, looking over my facebook feed, I see I did publicly ask if anybody in Paris wanted to hang out while I had a layover there a couple years back. So, perhaps I'm a bit guilty.
   558. The Good Face Posted: November 21, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5790030)
Instagramming your trek through Nepal or eating manateee rectum is akin to showing off your 200ft yacht.



Buying experiences is a status marker as well. Not everybody can afford to climb Everest, trek the Sahara in a camel caravan, or dive with manta rays in Polynesia.

Only if people know - so, Instagramming, sure.

... And, looking over my facebook feed, I see I did publicly ask if anybody in Paris wanted to hang out while I had a layover there a couple years back. So, perhaps I'm a bit guilty.


Who does those sorts of things and then maintains a monastic silence about it? I guess it's possible, but my experience is that a huge aspect of having those experiences is sharing them with other people, either via social media or face to face. And since those sorts of uncommon experiences are status markers among educated people in prosperous countries...
   559. Nasty Nate Posted: November 21, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5790031)
I tend to be dismissive when people offer what appear to be childish justifications for their food aversions. For example, "I don't like the texture of mushrooms." "I don't eat seafood." It literally sounds childish, that is, something a child would say, and represents the sort of pickiness that most people grow out of.

I also usually suspect that the picky people just haven't given the named ingredient fair shake. Like, you hate cauliflower, but have you ever had it cooked really perfectly?
I think texture is a core part of whether someone likes a food or not, whether adult or child. (Or maybe you are just saying that mushrooms can be prepared a million ways with lots of varying textures?)

And if people say "I hate cauliflower," maybe give them the benefit of the doubt that they really mean "I hate cauliflower in all/most of the common ways that is is prepared, but I allow for the possibility that it could be prepared in some way in which I would enjoy." Do you really want people to include long qualifiers every time they discuss disliking a food?

Sincerely, a former picky eater.
   560. BrianBrianson Posted: November 21, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5790037)
Depends on the thing, of course. But I could easily try some craft beer or some whisky, and not talk about it with anyone but my wife.

Or travel to ... now I'm caught, can't talk about it without breaking that seal. But I think talking about something with a few friends (or sharing - either by travelling or eating with them) isn't the same as broadcasting it to everyone. Whereas owning a 15000 sq.ft. house would be the equivalent of introducing myself as Dr. Brianson. Sure, my friends, family, and coworkers all know I've got that title, but it'd be pretty tough to conceal that from them.

Although, I may just be waiting for that day when I can spring a "Please, my father is Mr. Brianson. You, you call me Dr. Brianson."
   561. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 21, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5790038)
I tend to be dismissive when people offer what appear to be childish justifications for their food aversions. For example, "I don't like the texture of mushrooms." "I don't eat seafood." It literally sounds childish, that is, something a child would say, and represents the sort of pickiness that most people grow out of.

I also usually suspect that the picky people just haven't given the named ingredient fair shake. Like, you hate cauliflower, but have you ever had it cooked really perfectly?

And so much of the criticism comes from a sadness that people aren't enjoying these things that are great and could be enjoyed. I honestly think that if you refuse to eat X, Y and Z, your life is in some small way diminished. You're getting less out of life than you could. You don't like oysters? Sucks to be you, because I get to enjoy oysters, and you don't.


Just out of curiosity, how does that sort of reasoning differ from my saying that people who can't handle foreign movies because they're "boring" are picky picky picky and are missing out on some of the best movies ever made? Or saying that people who don't read serious books are doomed to live an intellectual life on the level of Ray?

Look, some people are picky eaters and some people are picky sports fans and some people are picky moviegoers. So what? People are simply different.

This can also lead to a type of rudeness in pickiness. If I come over to your house, I will try everything you serve. I think it's rude to do otherwise.

That thought can just as easily be reversed. My wife and I always ask dinner guests in advance if there's anything they don't particularly like, and we adjust the meals accordingly without giving it a second thought. What's so difficult about that? Should we be forcing leg of lamb on vegetarians just because we have a really really good recipe for it?

   562. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 21, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5790054)
Snapper’s thoughts surprise me quite a bit. Not that I know him well, but I guess in the back of my mind I assumed he’d be more sympathetic to the virtues of impoverished living—even if your’e just LARPing, say, by backpacking through Europe in your 20s.
   563. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5790058)
Snapper’s thoughts surprise me quite a bit. Not that I know him well, but I guess in the back of my mind I assumed he’d be more sympathetic to the virtues of impoverished living—even if yours just LARPing, say, by backpacking through Europe in your 20s.

I don't believe in conspicuous consumption, and try hard to give at least 10% of our income to charity. We bought a house that was probably half the price we could have afforded. Our two cars are 10 and 14 years old.

But, I have no problem with enjoying the finer things in life on occasion. Poverty is not a good in itself.

I enjoy a luxurious vacation every few years, and a really good restaurant meal once or twice a month.

   564. Master of the Horse Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:05 PM (#5790072)
Think millennials should be proud to be leading the effort to drive american cheese to extinction
   565. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5790073)
This exchange on food makes me think of a few things.

I’m extremely picky (“snobbish” perhaps) when it comes to movies: I detest the majority of them and look down at those who take pleasure in such simple, ugly Hollywood products. And yet....when it comes to music, I’ll listen to anythjng in the top 40 that is happy and dance-y, and “don’t get” jazz, opera or classical. I recognize fully that I’m taking the exact approach to music that I so resent others for applying to movies....It’s a pickle! I can’t explain it! (And of course, I can obviously understand where Preserved Fish is coming from on food.)

I guess part of my explanation is that there just aren’t enough hours in the day for someone to make serious aesthetic judgments about everything. We can’t like only the “best” wines, the best foods, the best furniture, the best fashion, the best architecture, the best operas, the best flowers, the best perfumes....you’ll go crazy!

Joris-Karl Huysmans’ most famous novel, Against the Grain, is about a man who tries exactly that: he moves into a house in total seclusion, and fills it with only the greatest books, paintings, clothes, fragrances, etc etc etc. And every chapter is just the character delivering insanely detailed sermons comparing one artist to another before deciding which ones would ultimately warrant a place in his perfect home.

Huysmans gives up the game by at one point having our hero buy a rare, endangered tortoise, and, that not being enough, gilds the lily by encrusting his shell with all the finest diamonds and gems, so as to please his eye as he watches the tortoise walk across his library.

And....of course, the weight of all those jewels kills the poor amphibian.

Aesthetic values are important, but you can’t let them weigh down your every waking thought, or you’ll be crushed!
   566. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:18 PM (#5790077)
American cheese should never be eaten on its own, but it is a fine cheese product for burgers and grilled cheese and a variety of other foods that call for melted cheese.
   567. BrianBrianson Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:38 PM (#5790082)
Indeed, Heston Blumenthal says put American Cheese on hamburgers. So the hipster millennials are fine with it.

He also says to serve olives and strawberries together, and he's right about that too. On vanilla ice cream with balsamic vinegar. And something a bit earthy - candied walnuts or fried chicken livers.

Food is weird.
   568. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5790085)
Aesthetic values are important, but you can’t let them weigh down your every waking thought, or you’ll be crushed!

There are also many categories where I just don't like "the finer things". I'm pretty middle brow in my tastes. I don't enjoy "Literary Fiction" (the kind that wins awards). I don't typically enjoy "serious movies" or "artistic movies". Like you, I don't care for classically music that much, and I hate Jazz.

Aesthetics are just another description of tastes. And tastes vary tremendously.
   569. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:41 PM (#5790086)
He also says to serve olives and strawberries together, and he's right about that too. On vanilla ice cream with balsamic vinegar. And something a bit earthy - candied walnuts or fried chicken livers.

Oh my lord. That sounds absolutely disgusting.

Good vanilla ice cream needs absolutely nothing. And organs are called offal for a reason.
   570. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5790090)
re 552. This supposes that everything edible is good and tasty and that if we just give it a fair shake we'd realize it. That isn't true. It is true that we can get used to something or we could even not know better but personal tastes are real. For instance oysters. I like oysters but there are ways I don't like them prepared. I don't like giant east coast oysters either. That isn't childish. That is me being on these planet for decades and realizing there are things I like and don't like. I don't like oily fish, hell, I don't like cooked fish. Raw or seared tuna in small doses is fine but I'm not a salmon eater. I don't like it. I don't like stinky and or slimy cheese. It doesn't appeal to me.
   571. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:47 PM (#5790092)
I think texture is a core part of whether someone likes a food or not, whether adult or child. (Or maybe you are just saying that mushrooms can be prepared a million ways with lots of varying textures?)

My wife hates mushrooms because she feels like she is eating eyeballs when she eats them. There are of course many kinds of mushrooms and many ways to cook them so that you aren't simply munching on a soft poached button mushroom. I've done them ways that she has found ok but she still won't go out of her way to eat them. Of course my wife is the kind of person that finds something she likes and sticks with it for decades so she isn't the best example of tastes.
   572. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5790093)
And organs are called offal for a reason.

Because they fall out when butchering?
   573. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5790095)
There's an interesting (to me) thought experiment I read about a while ago:

You're in a restaurant you really like, and the proprietor comes over and says, "Congratulations! You've won our prize, 1 free dinner (for 2) each month for the next year! Only catch is, you have to decide RIGHT NOW what you'll be eating."

So, how do YOU decide?
   574. PreservedFish Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5790096)
For some context:

When I grew up I was legendarily picky. Whenever I'm with adults that knew me as a child, I get regaled with stories of my pickiness and intransigence. At some point, around age 19-21, I flipped a switch and became the least picky, most adventurous eater of anyone I knew, and I feel that this represented an immeasurable improvement in my life, not just because of all the amazing new foods I stuffed into my face, but because of my attitude changed in new food situations from nervous/defensive to eager/expectant. And that's whether we're talking about a hawker market in Singapore or just a home dinner cooked by a friend. (This goes beyond food, too)

So part of my opinion is the zeal of the convert.
   575. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 01:58 PM (#5790097)
There's an interesting (to me) thought experiment I read about a while ago:

You're in a restaurant you really like, and the proprietor comes over and says, "Congratulations! You've won our prize, 1 free dinner (for 2) each month for the next year! Only catch is, you have to decide RIGHT NOW what you'll be eating."

So, how do YOU decide?


If you've been to the restaurant many times, wouldn't you just pick your favorite meal?

There are restaurants I go to where I basically order the same thing ever time.
   576. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5790098)
While I'm a much less picky eater than I was as a yout', I tend to side more with snapper vs PF on the food stuff. There are lots and lots of things I already know I like. I don't go out of my way to avoid new things, but if there's something I've had in the past and didn't like, why should I keep trying it over and over to see if maybe THIS time I'll like it? There are certain smells and textures that I find unpleasant; why keep subjecting myself to them in hopes of overcoming this (to PF) "irrational" dislike, when there are literally hundreds of other foods whose smells and textures I love?

   577. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5790099)
For some context:

When I grew up I was legendarily picky. Whenever I'm with adults that knew me as a child, I get regaled with stories of my pickiness and intransigence. At some point, around age 19-21, I flipped a switch and became the least picky, most adventurous eater of anyone I knew, and I feel that this represented an immeasurable improvement in my life, not just because of all the amazing new foods I stuffed into my face, but because of my attitude changed in new food situations from nervous/defensive to eager/expectant. And that's whether we're talking about a hawker market in Singapore or just a home dinner cooked by a friend. (This goes beyond food, too)

So part of my opinion is the zeal of the convert.


Interesting. I've never been super-picky. I can generally find something I like in every restaurant.

But, I'm a little picky. I've got things I just don't like. I don't think this has changed all that much over time. I'm a little less averse to dairy than I was as a child, but no wholesale changes.
   578. PreservedFish Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5790101)
Snapper:
Maybe the difference is you get sick of foods much, much faster than I do. You can give me a really good doughnut for breakfast 4 times a week, and I'll be happy. Pizza every Friday night; sign me up.


Maybe to some extent, but it's not like I don't have my favorite things that I can eat again and again. I think there are other, larger differences.

One is that you seem to be extremely risk averse in your entertainment choices, and another is that I just delight in novelty and diversity more than you do. I am the sort that would happily take the 7 train way out into Queens and then walk another mile to reach a grubby little joint with Formica tables, all because I heard that it had some awesome Georgian/Burmese/whatever food. You would think that everything about this trip is crazy, but to me, that's what I do for fun. It's taking a risk that the food will be bad, and that the long trip will be wasted, but to me it's worth it because the excitement in tasting something awesome and new overwhelms those "risks."
   579. BrianBrianson Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5790102)
And organs are called offal for a reason.


The tastiest part of the animal is the thymus gland. Seriously. Well, unless it's a goose with a seriously diseased liver.

But no, when I made that, it was diced green olives and strawberries on vanilla ice cream, with balsamic vinegar. It was amazing and confusing - the stuff about earthy flavours was just musings. I probably would do candied walnuts.
   580. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5790104)
You're in a restaurant you really like, and the proprietor comes over and says, "Congratulations! You've won our prize, 1 free dinner (for 2) each month for the next year! Only catch is, you have to decide RIGHT NOW what you'll be eating."

So, how do YOU decide?


Just pick a different item for each month.
   581. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5790106)
The tastiest part of the animal is the thymus gland. Seriously.

Is that the scientific name for the ribeye cap?
   582. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5790108)
I was a vegan for about a decade, so I’ve long viewed food as merely the energy source necessary for life. The “soylent” idea (a milkshake-like drink you have 3 times a day that has all essential nutrients) appeals to me (and as soon as someone develops a cheaper alternative I’ll almost certainly switch to it).
   583. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5790111)
When I grew up I was legendarily picky. Whenever I'm with adults that knew me as a child, I get regaled with stories of my pickiness and intransigence. At some point, around age 19-21, I flipped a switch and became the least picky, most adventurous eater of anyone I knew, and I feel that this represented an immeasurable improvement in my life, not just because of all the amazing new foods I stuffed into my face, but because of my attitude changed in new food situations from nervous/defensive to eager/expectant. And that's whether we're talking about a hawker market in Singapore or just a home dinner cooked by a friend. (This goes beyond food, too)

So part of my opinion is the zeal of the convert.


I was going to say "So you're a born again" but I see you realize that at the bottom of the post.
   584. PreservedFish Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5790112)
Joris-Karl Huysmans’ most famous novel, Against the Grain, is about a man who tries exactly that: he moves into a house in total seclusion, and fills it with only the greatest books, paintings, clothes, fragrances, etc etc etc. And every chapter is just the character delivering insanely detailed sermons comparing one artist to another before deciding which ones would ultimately warrant a place in his perfect home.


But Davo: in this conversation, nobody is taking this angle. The picky eaters are not snobs, in my opinion, and I am not a snob.
   585. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5790113)
Maybe to some extent, but it's not like I don't have my favorite things that I can eat again and again. I think there are other, larger differences.

One is that you seem to be extremely risk averse in your entertainment choices, and another is that I just delight in novelty and diversity more than you do. I am the sort that would happily take the 7 train way out into Queens and then walk another mile to reach a grubby little joint with Formica tables, all because I heard that it had some awesome Georgian/Burmese/whatever food. You would think that everything about this trip is crazy, but to me, that's what I do for fun. It's taking a risk that the food will be bad, and that the long trip will be wasted, but to me it's worth it because the excitement in tasting something awesome and new overwhelms those "risks."


So, would you really choose that trip, with say a 50:50 chance of good vs. bad experience (with variations of goodness and badness), vs. going to a restaurant you really love with a 98% chance it's going to be great?

Unless I'm really sick of the favorite restaurant, I don't know why I'd trade a 98% chance of great food for a maybe 10-20% chance.
   586. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:10 PM (#5790114)
I try something new all the time. If I go to a restaurant more than once I don't order the same thing. It takes a lot of trips to a restaurant to get me to start duplicating my order. But despite trying these new things there is a lot of things I don't like. I'll try something new and I'll discover I don't like it. Trying it 15 more times would be a waste of my time and money.
   587. McCoy Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5790116)
So, would you really choose that trip, with say a 50:50 chance of good vs. bad experience (with variations of goodness and badness), vs. going to a restaurant you really love with a 98% chance it's going to be great?

Unless I'm really sick of the favorite restaurant, I don't know why I'd trade a 98% chance of great food for a maybe 10-20% chance.


For me restaurants are rarely great more than once. A pick part of the deal of a restaurant is its newness. Newness can cover a lot of warts. Like for instance for the first time you go into a restaurant you might spend 10 minutes going wow over all the pretty decorations but the next time you come in they are old hat and suddenly you realize it is taking the staff 10 minutes to get your drink order.
   588. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5790117)
I was a vegan for about a decade, so I’ve long viewed food as merely the energy source necessary for life. The “soylent” idea (a milkshake-like drink you have 3 times a day that has all essential nutrients) appeals to me (and as soon as someone develops a cheaper alternative I’ll almost certainly switch to it).

Eating together is such an important part of human society, it seems a shame to reduce it to mere fuel.

Plus, if you're no longer a vegan, there's so much great food out there. If I was limited to a vegan diet, I'd probably have your attitude.
   589. BrianBrianson Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5790118)
The tastiest part of the animal is the thymus gland. Seriously.

Is that the scientific name for the ribeye cap?


The culinary term is "sweetbreads".
   590. PreservedFish Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5790119)
Andy:
Just out of curiosity, how does that sort of reasoning differ from my saying that people who can't handle foreign movies because they're "boring" are picky picky picky and are missing out on some of the best movies ever made? Or saying that people who don't read serious books are doomed to live an intellectual life on the level of Ray?


I agree with you.

My wife and I always ask dinner guests in advance if there's anything they don't particularly like, and we adjust the meals accordingly without giving it a second thought. What's so difficult about that? Should we be forcing leg of lamb on vegetarians just because we have a really really good recipe for it?


Obviously I don't have a problem with that, and I too adjust my meals for my guests. That's just good hospitality. But sometimes situations don't allow for this, for any number of reasons.
   591. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5790120)
Unless I'm really sick of the favorite restaurant, I don't know why I'd trade a 98% chance of great food for a maybe 10-20% chance.


I think this is where the "experience" factor comes in. The potential quality of the food is only a small part of the whole adventure, which includes both the trip itself (hey, I love riding trains) and the variability of the potential outcomes: it might be great! And I'll have a great story to tell my friends! It might be horrible! And I'll have a GREAT story to tell my friends!
   592. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5790122)
For me restaurants are rarely great more than once. A pick part of the deal of a restaurant is its newness. Newness can cover a lot of warts. Like for instance for the first time you go into a restaurant you might spend 10 minutes going wow over all the pretty decorations but the next time you come in they are old hat and suddenly you realize it is taking the staff 10 minutes to get your drink order.

Fascinating. I have favorites where I've found a meal or two that I love, and return again and again for that meal. There's a French place near me where I order Crab Louie and Steak au poivre 75% of the time. When Il Giglio was open downtown, I had the truffle ravioli, either as app or main, every time I went in.

As a rule, I like what I like, and I'm slow to bore with it. Maybe that's why my wife and I are going on 14 years without a big fight :-)
   593. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5790123)
Oh, and I just wanted to point out that this:

I've been mentally middle aged since I was a child.


is one of the truest things anybody has ever posted on BTF. :-)

NTTAWWT
   594. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5790124)
I think this is where the "experience" factor comes in. The potential quality of the food is only a small part of the whole adventure, which includes both the trip itself (hey, I love riding trains) and the variability of the potential outcomes: it might be great! And I'll have a great story to tell my friends! It might be horrible! And I'll have a GREAT story to tell my friends!

You are familiar with the current state of the NYC subways aren't you? I don't think I'd dignify them with the name "trains".

But, yeah, this is probably the part that escapes me. Newness per se does nothing for me. I'm fundamentally democratic in my tastes; I believe lots of people can make good to great food. The idea of making a trek, or booking a reservation 6 months in advance, or standing in line for two hours to try the latest and greatest just doesn't appeal to me at all. I'm very confident I can get an equal meal elsewhere.

I mean, Shake Shack can have lines across Madison Square Park. I'm not waiting an hour for a burger I can make at home, and have it just as good.
   595. PreservedFish Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:21 PM (#5790125)
So, would you really choose that trip, with say a 50:50 chance of good vs. bad experience (with variations of goodness and badness), vs. going to a restaurant you really love with a 98% chance it's going to be great?
Sometimes I would. If it was down to just one meal, I'd probably choose the safe bet. But if it was a week of meals, I might prefer to include some longshots on my schedule.

Part of this is just my strong natural curiosity. The Georgian restaurant may have a Georgian beer, Georgian waitress, Georgian owner that comes to greet me, posters of famous Georgian landmarks that I've never seen before, etc. It might be next door to a Georgian movie shop or Georgian barber. Everything about the evening might be fascinating in a way that a hip downtown spot almost never will be. Even bad food can be interesting and illuminating, if it's exemplary of the national cuisine.
   596. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5790126)
Oh, and I just wanted to point out that this:

I've been mentally middle aged since I was a child.


is one of the truest things anybody has ever posted on BTF. :-)

NTTAWWT


Knowing yourself is the most important knowledge.

I've often quoted the old line "If you're not liberal when you're young you have no heart. If you're not conservative when you're old you have no brain." and added the punch line "I have no heart".
   597. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5790128)
I assume all their tv shows are terrible (because they are tv shows),


Davo, this is a very outdated bit of snobbery. TV is a much better medium for long-form drama than cinema, and the rise of cable and niche programming has given show runners the sort of freedom that movie directors have taken for granted since the demise of the studio system (not all that long ago, actually).

Reminds me of a movie review I read long ago where the reviewer dismissed one of Scorsese's films (which he hadn't seen) on the basis that it was a comedy, and Scorsese had no talent for comedy...though he had never seen any of his other films that had comic elements.
   598. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5790129)
This is a very interesting discussion, and I would like to fully engage, especially with PF’s post 552 (thank you for the robust answer), but I am in Portugal right now- which, by the way, is an amazing place in any number of ways, starting with food, wine, beauty and history. Seriously, book a trip as soon as you can.

I will try to respond more fully at some point, but could you please keep this discussion going for, say, 5 more days? Obrigado.

Trying the rotting rectum of a manatee is an adventure and it is an affordable adventure to have.
Eh, unfortunately the price of rotting manatee rectum has gone through the roof since all the hipsters got into it.
   599. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5790130)
The Georgian restaurant may have a Georgian beer, Georgian waitress, Georgian owner that comes to greet me, posters of famous Georgian landmarks that I've never seen before, etc. It might be next door to a Georgian movie shop or Georgian barber.


Maybe Sam would be there, and you could razz him about getting OTP banished!

Oh, wrong Georgia.
   600. Hysterical & Useless Posted: November 21, 2018 at 02:33 PM (#5790131)
but I am in Portugal right now


One of the benefits of travelling to Europe is that you can get up early in the morning and get your licks in here while we're all still in bed.
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