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Saturday, September 01, 2018

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (September 2018)

The new TV season is upon us.

[H]ere is Deadline’s annual rundown of fall premiere dates for new and returning series. The list covers hundreds of broadcast, cable and streaming shows bowing between September 1 and December 31 and some high-profile one-off programs.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: September 01, 2018 at 12:05 PM | 535 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   101. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: September 06, 2018 at 09:55 PM (#5740283)
flop
   102. cardsfanboy Posted: September 06, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5740303)
This thread so far has been the perfect example of the elitist film attitudes I would expect from a website that thought that Pavement was a real band. :)... I mean claiming neither Stallone or Reynold's produced more than one good movie is just ridiculous...

   103. PreservedFish Posted: September 06, 2018 at 10:47 PM (#5740330)
Sometimes the elites are right.
   104. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:14 AM (#5740360)
Reynolds had 3 or 4 good movies; Stallone has 2 or 3. They each padded their totals with some enjoyably stoopid projects. The rest is a tsunami of gunk.

If the deserved lack of critical respect ever upset them, they surely dabbed their tears of woe with handfuls of 70-thousand-dollar bills and unfastened bikini bottoms. The world also needs personalities.
   105. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 07, 2018 at 07:09 AM (#5740373)
I can’t be bothered to go back to the previous page, but am I correct in guessing that the consensus on Stallone’s one great film is that it’s “Rhinestone”?
   106. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 07, 2018 at 07:31 AM (#5740379)
I mean claiming neither Stallone or Reynold's produced more than one good movie is just ridiculous...

A lot of Stallone's films were really bad. I liked Rocky, Creed, Copland. The rest really don't hold up that well.

Same with Reynolds, who I like much more that Stallone. He was funny and could do comedy pretty well (The End, Starting Over). Most of his films were more mediocre and seemed that they weren't trying real hard.
   107. McCoy Posted: September 07, 2018 at 08:50 AM (#5740389)
Stallone had at least 4 or 5 legitimately good films. Rocky I and II, Creed, First Blood, and Copland are all widely seen as being good. Demolition Man and Tango & Cash were legitimate pop culture hits at the time they came out. Even Cliffhanger did well.
   108. Rennie's Tenet Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5740390)
I think Burt could have been in some bigger pictures, things like Dirty Dozen and Magnificent 7, if he had gotten started just a few years earlier than he did. Those movies had pretty much disappeared by the time he emerged as a star. The upside for him was that he sold about as many tickets as anyone in the 70s and 80s.
   109. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5740395)
Just checked out Stallone's IMDB page. He really has made a lot of crap. If you were to compare Stallone's WAR to Burt Reynolds', I think they'd be pretty close--a couple of MVP seasons and then just a lot of stat padding. But, and god save me for saying this, Schwarzenegger has them both beat and easily. How the hell did that happen? Terminator, T2, Total Recall, Predator and Conan are stone cold classics. (A lot of people like True Lies but I'm not a fan of that one. If you want to swap in True Lies for Conan, that's reasonable but I much prefer Conan.) Then you have The Last Action Hero for which I've seen arguments for reappraisal. Then I'd probably rate Arnold's schlock as more enjoyable than Stallone's or Reynolds'. I'll take Commando over Cobra and I'll take Kindergarten Cop over Stop Or My Mom Will Shoot and so on.
   110. Lassus Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:39 AM (#5740402)
Finished Sharp Objects last night. I am at this point legitimately Flynned out. Over-Flynned? Something like that.
   111. PreservedFish Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5740404)
Arnie is the best! Don’t apologize.
   112. Lassus Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:45 AM (#5740407)
I have to put Stallone above Arnie, as an actor.
   113. Morty Causa Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5740410)
I enjoyed, and at the time thought it was rather novel, Burt's negotiations with God at the end of The End.
   114. Morty Causa Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:58 AM (#5740413)
I stopped watching Stallone a long time ago. Never could take him very seriously, or even very unseriously. For one thing, his voice always sounded like it was coming through his armpit.
   115. The Good Face Posted: September 07, 2018 at 10:04 AM (#5740416)
Over the Top was easily the finest feature film ever made about arm wrestling. A masterpiece of its genre.
   116. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 07, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5740419)
Finished Sharp Objects last night. I am at this point legitimately Flynned out. Over-Flynned? Something like that.

I watched the first 2 episodes and I am not sure I want to slog through the rest. Is it worth going through? I really liked Gone Girl (both the film and book) and I usually like Amy Adams, but this is really slow going.

   117. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 07, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5740427)
A lot of Stallone's films were really bad. I liked Rocky, Creed, Copland. The rest really don't hold up that well.

I forgot about Nighthawks. I liked that one but that is mostly due to Rutger Hauer.
   118. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: September 07, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5740446)
I have to put Stallone above Arnie, as an actor.

I agree but I don't think it matters.
   119. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 07, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5740451)
I have to put Stallone above Arnie, as an actor.

I agree but I don't think it matters.


Then Arnie was either smarter in choosing projects or had a much better team around him to do so. His movies were so much better.
   120. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: September 07, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5740453)
Then Arnie was either smarter in choosing projects or had a much better team around him to do so. His movies were so much better.

Arnie never fancied himself an auteur like Stallone which probably helped Arnie make better movies. Let James Cameron figure out the hard stuff.
   121. Lassus Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5740456)
I watched the first 2 episodes and I am not sure I want to slog through the rest. Is it worth going through? I really liked Gone Girl (both the film and book) and I usually like Amy Adams, but this is really slow going.

Um. Maybe?

It's actually kind of hard to say. There are a LOT of incredible acting performances, and I think Adams is among them. It IS very slow going, so you kind of have to accept that (if you want to) and adjust your viewing with that in mind. Mercifully, it is only 8 episodes, so think of it that way!

It was not my favorite thing to watch, but it was still engaging to do so.
   122. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5740465)
Vortex: In case you missed it, Doctor Who returns October 7. About time (heh)...
   123. Morty Causa Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:13 AM (#5740469)
Arnold always knew his limitations and knew how to excel within those limitations. That's why he was a bodybuilder, not a real athlete, and why he carefully chose his movie roles. He had the instinct or intelligence to know that before you can run the bases you have to get on base. Before you perform a role, you choose a role you can perform at. (Seinfeld: you have to know how to hold the car reservation as well as take the car reservation.)
   124. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5740470)
I agree but I don't think it matters.


For sure. Schwarzenegger was very good at playing to, no pun intended, his strengths: brawn, action, and a few one-liners.

Stallone could do that to a limited extent, but has also tried writing and directing films (with very mixed results). I will always love "Demolition Man", though. It's a souped-up B-movie with a good villain, some solid jokes, and entertaining action sequences.
   125. Morty Causa Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5740474)
For sure. Schwarzenegger was very good at playing to, no pun intended, his strengths: brawn, action, and a few one-liners

I guess a line of progeny could be enumerated that would include Randolph Scott and Clint Eastwood. What's Eastwood's line: I don't do lots of dialogue well. What I do well is squint.
   126. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5740476)
Arnold always knew his limitations and knew how to excel within those limitations.
Um...I think you're ignoring one fairly major problem with this theory.
   127. Morty Causa Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:30 AM (#5740479)
What's that?
   128. Howie Menckel Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5740480)
The Governorship?
   129. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5740484)
Boogie Nights is one of the relatively few movies I actively hated, but I blame it on the dire circumstances in which I saw it -- int the living room of the family of someone I didn't particularly like, the morning after a terribly restless night (didn't have access to my meds, & I have a shuddersome memory of having to try to sleep on the floor), with a couple of young kids consistently making their presence known. I don't think any movie would've survived such awfulness, & clearly I need to revisit this one.
   130. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5740485)
Then Arnie was either smarter in choosing projects or had a much better team around him to do so. His movies were so much better.

I've never seen any of Arnold's movies because I have no interest in the entire action movie genre, but did he actually make anything better than the original Rocky?
   131. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5740488)
I've never seen any of Arnold's movies because I have no interest in the entire action movie genre, but did he actually make anything better than the original Rocky?

Depends on what you think of Terminator or Terminator II. Both of them terrific movies, but Rocky is probably better. If you were to rank their movies however, Rocky is 1, but Arnold probably has places 2-5.
   132. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5740490)
I've never seen any of Arnold's movies because I have no interest in the entire action movie genre, but did he actually make anything better than the original Rocky?

That's very subjective, but I like Terminator better.
   133. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5740495)
Then you have The Last Action Hero for which I've seen arguments for reappraisal.


It should be. I always thought it was a rather clever film - it did poorly at the box office because nobody wanted clever from Arnie, but I'd call it "Good+".

EDIT FOR MORE -

Andy, you should check it out... it's basically an action movie satire.

Elmore Leonard wrote Get Shorty two years before LAH, and the film Get Shorty came out two years after it - which seems about perfect, since I've always thought LAH was basically a not half-bad beta version.
   134. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5740496)
The Schwarzenegger movie I’ve seen more than any other is Jingle All the Way, the Christmas comedy he made with Sinbad. (It’s also the only Schwarzenegger movie I own, incidentally.)
   135. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 07, 2018 at 11:59 AM (#5740498)
Vortex: In case you missed it, Doctor Who returns October 7. About time (heh)...


Thanks!
   136. BDC Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:00 PM (#5740499)
I think the Terminator films are better of their kind than Rocky is of its kind. Boxing films are oddly good, as a genre, and Rocky is just another good one. Save-the-planet-from-the-Other movies are uneven, and the Terminators are extremely good of that kind. I guess that's one of the subjective factors.
   137. Greg K Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5740500)
Boogie Nights is one of the relatively few movies I actively hated, but I blame it on the dire circumstances in which I saw it -- int the living room of the family of someone I didn't particularly like, the morning after a terribly restless night (didn't have access to my meds, & I have a shuddersome memory of having to try to sleep on the floor), with a couple of young kids consistently making their presence known. I don't think any movie would've survived such awfulness, & clearly I need to revisit this one.

Movies that have suffered from an uncomfortable viewing experience:

I sat beside my girlfriend's mom on the couch while watching Monster's Ball. The rather graphic Halle Berry sex scene was not welcome in that context.

The other one might be Wonder Woman. Saw it while I was crashing at a friend's place. My choice would have been to sleep, but instead me, him, and his wife sat on the couch I would otherwise have been sleeping on. About 20 minutes in both of them fall asleep, and I watch about two hours of deeply resented film.
   138. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5740517)
I think my most uncomfortable film was actually a Burt Reynolds clunker -- The Man Who Loved Women.

There's some rather risque stuff that a 10 yo ordinarily doesn't get taken to the movies to see - we had originally gone to see something else I don't recall and ended seeing it because hey, Burt Reynolds.

I think my parents knew that they had made a mistake when I was the only child in the theater.
   139. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5740529)
I’m fully aware Jingle All the Way is a very bad movie, but I still find it charming and eminently re-watchable (my wife and I see it every Christmas).

Part is just an amusing coincidence (it was shot in my hometown), but mostly....even though the two lead actors are so terrible (Arnold’s son is played by little Anakin Skywalker in The Phantom Menace), there’s something about their particular bad line readings that feels so.....vulnerable, I guess? What he’s asked to do is obviously impossible (play a browbeaten mattress salesman from the Minnesota suburbs in a family comedy), and that such a character is impossible is part of the joke, and I think the fact that Arnold doesn’t get this and instead tries so damn hard to sell the lines.... It’s a discomfiting mixture of strained earnestness (by him and his son) and the manifestly un-serious, flippantly ironic performances by the supporting cast (mostly comedians—Sinbad, Phil Hartman, Jim Belushi).

But it might just be that it was filmed in Bloomington. And Arnold and Sinbad ate breakfast at Mickey’s Dining Car.
   140. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5740532)
Coincidentally - the only film that ever had scenes filmed in my hometown was also a Christmas movie...
   141. BDC Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5740537)
Living in New York for a while I got used to seeing filming. One day my son and I were on lower Broadway and walked onto a location. They had closed the street but not the sidewalk, because I guess the sidewalk, or one side of it, was never going to be in the frame. Julianne Moore went past in a car. Then the car backed up and she went past again. I forget what movie that was – something about Moore's character being gaslighted, what happened to my children or whatever. I did eventually see the film and the scene, just a few frames of a car in motion.

Oliver Stone filmed some of Born on the Fourth of July across the street from my apartment in Dallas. I could have been an extra; they put out a local call. I was either too lazy, or grading papers, or because my son was an infant, I didn't want to leave him alone in the apartment while I walked over and stood around on the location.
   142. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5740539)
141- I remember that one well, too. The little girl gave a really great performance; looking her up on IMDB I see 1) that was her very first performance, and 2) she pretty much never acted again.
   143. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5740540)
I forget what movie that was – something about Moore's character being gaslighted, what happened to my children or whatever.


The Forgotten, no doubt.

Which means ... you've forgotten The Forgotten.

Meta, man!
   144. Greg K Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5740541)
The inverse of that is Wayne's World, which took place in my hometown, but in order to pander to American audiences they had to pretend it was suburban Chicago.
   145. McCoy Posted: September 07, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5740544)
As a kid not much was filmed in my hometown area though stuff like Lucas and all the Hughes stuff got filmed near it. Nowadays practically every other day I'll see a movie production sign around where I live, play, or with.
   146. Rennie's Tenet Posted: September 07, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5740546)
uncomfortable viewing experience:


As your basic drunken lout college student, c. 1980, I was with three drunken lout friends, one of whom had a birthday. After a few hours of drinking and louting, we asked what he wanted to do for his birthday.

Naturally, he wanted to go see The French Lieutenant's Woman.
   147. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: September 07, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5740549)
I lived for a while on 45th street between 9th and 10th avenue and they filmed so much there I felt like we were being punished for something.
   148. Lassus Posted: September 07, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5740557)
Was on 49th between 9th and 10th in the early 90s. No filming at that point, or any other on that block I'm pretty sure.
   149. Man o' Schwar Posted: September 07, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5740577)
I think Burt Reynolds is getting short shrift here. He made a lot of bad stuff after about the mid-80s, when he was reduced to B-level movies, straight to video, and tabloid fodder for his marriage to Loni Anderson. (Of course during that time he also starred on Evening Shade on TV, for which he won 2 Emmys and a Golden Globe, and then later made Boogie Nights, for which he won a bunch of awards and an Oscar nomination). I think people in their 20s now probably know him best for something that wasn't even him - Norm McDonald's Burt Reynolds impersonation on SNL.

If you weren't around in the 70s, it's hard to comprehend what a big star Reynolds was. His high profile girlfriends (Dinah Shore, Sally Field, and then Loni), the spread in Playgirl, his Tonight show spots, and a string of box office hits that originally showcased his tough guy side, and then openly winked at it. He was the epitome of 1970s pre-AIDS male sexuality, the kind of thing we'll probably never see again.

Smokey and the Bandit (the original, not the terrible sequels) really captures the 70s Southern style and attitude - I lived in Arkansas around that time, and the movie nails it. Reynolds plays Bandit Darville exactly as he should - someone who knows he's too cool for school, but has no problem backing up his attitude against big bad (bumbling) authority. And Cannonball Run follows in the same line as It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World does - get a bunch of stars together, and put them in a chase. It's not as good, but it's funny stuff, and it comes off as a movie where everyone involved seems to be having a fabulous time. (And I guess in that way, it's also in the line of the Rat Pack movies like Ocean's Eleven or Robin and the Seven Hoods - not great movies, but rewatchable and fun in part because the people on screen seem to be enjoying themselves immensely.) Reynolds made a lot of tough guy movies (Deliverance and the Longest Yard probably being the best of the bunch), but then made movies that winked at his reputation. He was tough, yes, but he was also sardonic and laid back, a picture of self-confidence who didn't mind being the butt of the joke.

Maybe being in the South at the peak of his popularity colors my opinion, but I will always think of Reynolds as a real "movie star" in the classic meaning of the words.
   150. Hysterical & Useless Posted: September 07, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5740580)
It was a HUGE deal when parts of The Way We Were were filmed in my hometown (Schenectady) in the early 70s. They had a monstrous call for extras, hundreds of people showed up (well of course I was one of them; of course I wasn't chosen).

Then I moved to Brooklyn, and TV/film shoots are pretty much routine in my neighborhood. It's only a problem if it happens on one of the rare occasions when we have our car in town. There's too little parking already, and if one side of a block is filled with film co trailers you have to hunt pretty far away to get a space.

When I was working on E 52nd St years ago, I would take the train to the Carnegie Hall stop and walk across 55th St. The block between 6th & 7th pretty much always had somebody filming.
   151. Hysterical & Useless Posted: September 07, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5740586)
BDC, I finished reading Irene (1st volume of the Commandant Verhoeven trilogy, for those of you keeping score at home) this morning and started Alex. Not my usual cup of...hmm, I dislike tea, so I don't have a usual cup of that...

Definitely a page-turner. Not for the faint of heart (ie, anybody with even slightly more than normal human sensibilities). But very cleverly done. Have to keep an eye on those writers, they are not to be trusted.

Having read Irene, I can't see myself ever reading American Psycho.
   152. dlf Posted: September 07, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5740595)
I was an extra in "Cobb." They filmed a couple of scenes at Birmingham's Rickwood Field. They shot the scene where Cobb (Tommy Lee Jones) went into the stands to beat up a handicapped heckler (played by Jimmy Buffett) then treated the couple hundred of us extras to a short Buffett "concert" of a handful of songs. They also filmed a bit with Roger Clemens as the opposing pitcher, but I wasn't in the stands for that part.
   153. McCoy Posted: September 07, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5740596)
Burt's career basically took a beeline to the trashbin after 1982. By the end of the decade he was kind of a butt of jokes. I think Robert Wuhl had a stand up bit deconstructing Burt's for career and how he is supposed to be this big star but his career was filled with just really really bad films.

Evening shade definitely resurrected his career and Boogie Nights have him back his reputation but he never really capitalized on it the way Travolta or Willis did.
   154. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 07, 2018 at 04:32 PM (#5740656)
I think Robert Wuhl had a stand up bit deconstructing Burt's for career and how he is supposed to be this big star but his career was filled with just really really bad films.


That routine can be boiled down to one word: "STICK!"
   155. Every Inge Counts Posted: September 07, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5740670)
Burt's career basically took a beeline to the trashbin after 1982. By the end of the decade he was kind of a butt of jokes. I think Robert Wuhl had a stand up bit deconstructing Burt's for career and how he is supposed to be this big star but his career was filled with just really really bad films.


He had a major injury on the set of City Heat in 1984 that probably did not help his career path.
   156. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 07, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5740689)
Andy, you should check [Last Action Hero] out... it's basically an action movie satire.

That's good, since if it were anything but a satire I wouldn't make it through the first 10 minutes. Action movies are up there with Golden Age hagiographies of queens and colonialists as the worst genre ever invented.

Elmore Leonard wrote Get Shorty two years before LAH, and the film Get Shorty came out two years after it - which seems about perfect, since I've always thought LAH was basically a not half-bad beta version.

I might take you up on that. I loved Get Shorty, but of course I've never seen a Danny DeVito movie I wouldn't want to see again. Tin Men, which is basically an elaborate spinoff of the W.C. Fields part of If I Had A Million, is one of my top 5 comedies ever, and I mean going back to the silent era.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe being in the South at the peak of his popularity colors my opinion, but I will always think of Reynolds as a real "movie star" in the classic meaning of the words.

I think the only two of his movies I know I've seen are Deliverance and Smoky and the Bandit, and on the basis of those two alone I'd agree with you. He just radiated star quality in a way that wasn't dependent on his scripts, sort of like a southern version of James Garner. It's too bad that Deliverance had to come out in the same year as The Godfather, because it was definitely an Oscarworthy film.

But after reading the commentary above on his other movies, maybe it's a good thing I quit while I was ahead.
   157. Cowboy Popup Posted: September 07, 2018 at 06:47 PM (#5740723)
Action movies are up there with Golden Age hagiographies of queens and colonialists as the worst genre ever invented.

Well that's an insane and objectively wrong opinion.

About action movies. Hagiographies about dead white folk, especially genocidal ones, are a pox on film.

But action movies are capable of reaching pretty significant artistic heights. They push the limits of cinematography and the human body and are capable of moving an audience in a host of nonverbal ways that many other forms of film will never achieve.

Shoot, the only reason watch Birth of a Nation is because the cinematography required to create the action scenes of that vile, racist movie moved moviemaking forward in an unprecedented way.
   158. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: September 07, 2018 at 06:54 PM (#5740726)
Just to spice things up, here's a new question ... King of the guitar model (feel free to add):

Strat: Hendrix

SG: Angus Young

Tele: Roy Buchanan
   159. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 07, 2018 at 07:13 PM (#5740728)
Oooh, good one, Count. Additional candidates:

Strat: The Edge, Clapton, Townshend

Tele: Richard(s), Springsteen (yes, I know his original Tele has an Esquire neck, but he's been playing '52 reissues for years now)

SG: Iommi
   160. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: September 07, 2018 at 07:53 PM (#5740743)
Strat: The Edge, Clapton, Townshend

Tele: Richard(s), Springsteen (yes, I know his original Tele has an Esquire neck, but he's been playing '52 reissues for years now)

SG: Iommi


Strat: (should have included SRV) Isn't Clapton more of a all over the oplace, at least back in the day? For me, Pete got what Hendrix was doing, just didn't have the fingers to pull it off.

[edit] Interesting ...
Clapton's choice of electric guitars has been as notable as the man himself; like Hank Marvin, the Beatles and Jimi Hendrix, Clapton exerted a crucial and widespread influence in popularising particular models of electric guitar.[133] With the Yardbirds, Clapton played a Fender Telecaster, a Fender Jazzmaster, a double-cutaway Gretsch 6120, and a 1964 Cherry-Red Gibson ES-335. He became exclusively a Gibson player for a period beginning in mid-1965, when he purchased a used sunburst Gibson Les Paul guitar from a guitar store in London. Clapton commented on the slim profile of the neck, which would indicate it was a 1960 model.[134]

Early during his stint in Cream, Clapton's first Les Paul Standard was stolen. He continued to play Les Pauls exclusively with Cream (one bought from Andy Summers was almost identical to the stolen guitar)[135] until 1967, when he acquired his most famous guitar in this period, a 1964 Gibson SG, dubbed "the Fool".[136] Clapton used both the Les Paul and the SG to create his self-described "woman tone".[137] He explained in a 1967 interview, "I am playing more smoothly now. I’m developing what I call my 'woman tone.' It's a sweet sound, something like the solo on 'I Feel Free'."[137] Writer Michael Dregni describes it as "thick yet piercing, overdriven yet smooth, distorted yet creamy".[138] The tone is achieved by a combination of tone control settings on the guitars and Clapton's Marshall JTM45 amplifier.[139] Vintage Guitar magazine identifies "the opening riff and solo of 'Sunshine of Your Love' are arguably the best illustrations of full-blown woman tone".[137] Clapton's "Fool" acquired its name from its distinctive psychedelic paint job, created by the visual art collective also known as the Fool (just before Cream's first US appearance in 1967, Clapton's SG, Bruce's Fender VI, and Baker's drum head were all repainted in psychedelic designs).
Clapton with Blackie while on tour in the Netherlands, 1978. Clapton recorded hits such as "Cocaine", "I Shot the Sheriff", "Wonderful Tonight", "Farther Up the Road" and "Lay Down Sally" on Blackie

In 1968 Clapton bought a Gibson Firebird and started using the 1964 Cherry-Red Gibson ES-335 again.[136] The aforementioned 1964 ES-335 had a storied career. Clapton used it at the last Cream show in November 1968 as well as with Blind Faith, played it sparingly for slide pieces in the 1970s, used it on "Hard Times" from Journeyman, the Hyde Park live concert of 1996, and the From the Cradle sessions and tour of 1994–95. It was sold for US$847,500 at a 2004 auction.[140] Gibson produced a limited run of 250 "Crossroads 335" replicas. The 335 was only the second electric guitar Clapton bought.[141]

In July 1968 Clapton gave George Harrison a 1957 'goldtop' Gibson Les Paul that been refinished with a red colour, nicknamed Lucy. The following September, Clapton played the guitar on the Beatles' recording of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps". Lucy was stolen from Harrison, though later tracked down and returned to him - he lent it to Clapton for his 1973 comeback concert at the Rainbow. His SG "The Fool" found its way into the hands of George Harrison's friend Jackie Lomax, who subsequently sold it to musician Todd Rundgren for US$500 in 1972. Rundgren restored the guitar and nicknamed it "Sunny", after "Sunshine of Your Love". He retained it until 2000, when he sold it at an auction for US$150,000.[136] At the 1969 Blind Faith concert in Hyde Park, London Clapton played a Fender Custom Telecaster, which was fitted with "Brownie"'s neck.

In late 1969 Clapton made the switch to the Fender Stratocaster. "I had a lot of influences when I took up the Strat. First there was Buddy Holly, and Buddy Guy. Hank Marvin was the first well known person over here in England who was using one, but that wasn't really my kind of music. Steve Winwood had so much credibility, and when he started playing one, I thought, oh, if he can do it, I can do it".[142] The first—used during the recording of Eric Clapton—was "Brownie", which in 1973 became the backup to the most famous of all Clapton's guitars, "Blackie". In November 1970 Eric bought six Fender Stratocasters from the Sho-bud guitar shop in Nashville, Tennessee while on tour with the Dominos. He gave one each to George Harrison, Steve Winwood, and Pete Townshend.

Tele: Roy was just sublime.

SG: I love Iommi ... that is all.
   161. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: September 07, 2018 at 08:01 PM (#5740745)
For a Les Paul ... have to go Jimmy Page, right?
   162. cardsfanboy Posted: September 07, 2018 at 08:14 PM (#5740750)
Stallone had at least 4 or 5 legitimately good films. Rocky I and II, Creed, First Blood, and Copland are all widely seen as being good. Demolition Man and Tango & Cash were legitimate pop culture hits at the time they came out. Even Cliffhanger did well.


Agree, and I grew up with Rocky 3 and 4 and loved every bit of them. He wasn't making movies for the critics, he was making movies for the masses. The Expendables was pure fun. I think there are probably 7 or 8 Stallone movies I own (and yes one of them is Judge Dredd...) I don't like any of the Rambo movies... but I loved First Blood(and yes, that isn't a "Rambo" movie) and I don't really think that ther is any drop off in rewatchability between the first four Rocky movies, in fact I think 3 and 4 are easier to rewatch, even if they aren't actually as good or well developed as the first two.


I have to put Stallone above Arnie, as an actor.
As an actor, I agree, but as a person choosing which projects to take, Arnold does a much better job.

Then you have The Last Action Hero for which I've seen arguments for reappraisal.

Sadly Last Action Hero was too smart for it's target audience. I fully agree with it being re-apraised. It was a cool concept that made fun of action movies, and didn't market itself well to it's fans, so they kinda missed the point.

Stallone could do that to a limited extent, but has also tried writing and directing films (with very mixed results). I will always love "Demolition Man", though. It's a souped-up B-movie with a good villain, some solid jokes, and entertaining action sequences.


I liked Demolition man, but it played to my tastes... smart without being pretentious, one liners, silly situations/solutions, over the top acting by the villain etc... it was fun, but at no point in time while watching it, did I think I was watching a "good" movie, but instead was watching a movie I liked.
   163. cardsfanboy Posted: September 07, 2018 at 08:20 PM (#5740751)
I think the Terminator films are better of their kind than Rocky is of its kind. Boxing films are oddly good, as a genre, and Rocky is just another good one. Save-the-planet-from-the-Other movies are uneven, and the Terminators are extremely good of that kind. I guess that's one of the subjective factors.


I agree with the first part of that sentence. Boxing films really do seem to hit a sweet spot of quality and enjoyment that you don't get in a lot of other genres(I'm pretty confident that more boxing movies have been nominated for academy awards than pretty much all other sport films combined...----and after writing that, I'm thinking that I'm probably going to be wrong)

but c'mon Rocky won the academy award for best picture.... it's hard to top that. Even if it's a weak field or whatever.


Not that I'm arguing one or the other better, but among it's genre, winning an academy award for best pitcher, probably makes you permanently tied for first as the best movie of that genre. Sure you can try and argue one academy award winner is better than the other, but ultimately you are really dealing with the margins.
   164. Morty Causa Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:19 PM (#5740782)
Rocky didn't just win Best Picture. It had something like 10 nominations. Its competition was Taxi Driver, Network, and All the President's Men. Other notable films that year were Marathon Man, Carrie, and The Bad News Bears. But, yeah, it was a weak year for movies. Whether Rocky deserved all those awards and nominations is something else. I got a feeling it's one of the weaker MVP choices. But, I also remember many people at the time found it uplifting and inspirational at a time when the country needed some uplifting and inspiration it was felt.
   165. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5740784)
The wife just threw out there that she would like a nice (very nice) hotel and entertainment stay in New England for Christmas this year. I turn to you all for help in this matter. We have stayed at plenty of 4-star hotels in Boston, Burlington, and Montreal, but have never really hit the tops for stays, and, more importantly have never taken in classical opera. Any suggestions for a can't miss show? I realize this probably limits us to Boston, Portland, or Montreal, but I think we'd both enjoy the overlavish opera weekend. So...slightly alcohol induced thoughts out there, can anyone make a suggestion for a show or maybe hotel/resort/inn to book for the weekend prior to the 25th?

   166. cardsfanboy Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:24 PM (#5740787)
But, yeah, it was a weak year for movies.


Note: my comment about weak year was a pre-emptive defense of the award, not an actual argument about the year.
   167. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 07, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5740804)
Um, Duelle (Twhylight)came out in 1976, which pretty much single-handedly makes it a great year for movies.
   168. Lassus Posted: September 07, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5740819)
Jacksone - I'm sorry to tell you this but unless I've missed something you've looked at for your trip, all the opera and most of the classical calendar is empty for December, especially as Xmas approaches. You do have one good option for vocal awesomeness by seeing Dvorak's Mass in D and Britten's rejoice in the Lamb in Montreal on the 23rd of December. The Boston Lyric Opera is off, the Portland Opera is off. The Met in NYC has a full calendar, but Manhattan ain't New England. The Boston Symphony is doing Bach's Christmas Oratorio on December 1st, but..... other than that you're kinda stuck with Canada. The Montreal Symphony is doing the Messiah on the 18th and 19th, but I'd opt for the Bach Mass in B Minor on the 4th or 5th.

Sorry to be the bearer of less-than-good news.
   169. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 08, 2018 at 01:26 AM (#5740837)
Rocky didn't just win Best Picture. .... I got a feeling it's one of the weaker MVP choices.


I think it's easy to name fifty Best Pictures that are not as good as "Rocky," and many others that are no better. That gets "Rocky" into the top third. Of course, All the President's Men and Network and Taxi Driver are also better than most Best Pictures. That was one eclectic slate of worthy, re-watchable and rewarding options.
   170. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 08, 2018 at 01:34 AM (#5740838)
Acoustic guitar: Nick Drake

Fender Jazzmaster: Tom Verlaine

Tele: Prince
   171. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: September 08, 2018 at 02:42 AM (#5740844)
Sadly Last Action Hero was too smart for it's target audience. I fully agree with it being re-apraised. It was a cool concept that made fun of action movies, and didn't market itself well to it's fans, so they kinda missed the point.


I really liked some of the things Last Action Hero was trying to do. Seeing it as a teenager, I missed quite a few of the jokes - I wonder if having Arnie actually hurt it a little, because his accent naturally takes one out of the 'smart quip' listening mode, as it were.

A better Last Action Hero would be to action movies as Princess Bride was to fantasy movies. At the very least we got Charles Dance and that Amadeus joke. Also, the Mitchell and Webb sketch where Webb has to explain to his wife exactly how 'fun-but-not-good' the movie is, and why that means he's enjoying it, but the fact that he'll never want to watch it again is bringing home his own mortality.
   172. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: September 08, 2018 at 09:04 AM (#5740852)
Thanks Lassus! May not work out for the Xmas season, but looking into the Montreal Opera, they have a 'first timer's package' that looks pretty cool, we will just have to schedule a trip another time.
   173. McCoy Posted: September 08, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5740853)
Tomorrow I'm going to be doing deep sea fishing in key West. Have no idea what to expect.
   174. Lassus Posted: September 08, 2018 at 09:28 AM (#5740854)
Er, a tropical storm? May want to check the weather.
   175. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 08, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5740855)
I think it's easy to name fifty Best Pictures that are not as good as "Rocky," and many others that are no better


The boxing scenes in Rocky are ridiculously bad and unrealistic.
   176. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 08, 2018 at 09:41 AM (#5740856)
Action movies are up there with Golden Age hagiographies of queens and colonialists as the worst genre ever invented.

Well that's an insane and objectively wrong opinion.

About action movies. Hagiographies about dead white folk, especially genocidal ones, are a pox on film.

But action movies are capable of reaching pretty significant artistic heights. They push the limits of cinematography and the human body and are capable of moving an audience in a host of nonverbal ways that many other forms of film will never achieve.


Action movies may be technologically magnificent, but at bottom they're little more than the same old cartoon hero/villain schlock that Hollywood's been cranking out for 100+ years, only with better special effects.

Look, I'll admit to my bias in favor of movies that are set on a more human and realistic scale. Superheroes bore me and always have, and most action movies are just a variant of that genre.

Shoot, the only reason watch Birth of a Nation is because the cinematography required to create the action scenes of that vile, racist movie moved moviemaking forward in an unprecedented way.

That's one good reason, but a much better one is to gain some insight into the popular mind of the era when the movie was made. 100 years from now people will be studying the 2016 presidential election for the same reason.
   177. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 08, 2018 at 09:44 AM (#5740857)
The boxing scenes in Rocky are ridiculously bad and unrealistic.

Since you're BTF's Bard of Boxing, which boxing (and wrestling) movies over the years strike you as the most and least realistic, not just in the boxing scenes but in the overall portrayal of the entire enterprise?
   178. McCoy Posted: September 08, 2018 at 09:46 AM (#5740858)
Re 174. That's not the keys
   179. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 08, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5740859)
Since you're BTF's Bard of Boxing, which boxing (and wrestling) movies over the years strike you as the most and least realistic, not just in the boxing scenes but in the overall portrayal of the entire enterprise?


Cinderella Man wasn’t bad in that respect, but of course they screwed up all the actual historical parts of the biography (making Max Baer an ####### is the boxing equivalent of doing a Jackie Robinson biopic with Jackie as an anti-white revolutionary).

The Ali movie with The Fresh Prince wasn’t too bad in that respect, but it’s distracting because Smith doesn’t move or talk like Ali at all.
   180. Lassus Posted: September 08, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5740864)
The boxing scenes in Rocky are ridiculously bad and unrealistic.

No one cares, Poindexter. #ImmortalBeloved #Amadeus
   181. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 08, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5740865)
The boxing scenes in Rocky are ridiculously bad and unrealistic.

But the are so much better and realistic that in the other Rocky films.
   182. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 08, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5740867)
I always thought Daniel Day Lewis in The Boxer has good fight scenes. Harder They Fall, Creed, Fat City, and The Fighter all were good and had good fight scenes. I think the best might have been The Set-Up with Robert Ryan (who knew how to box)
   183. Morty Causa Posted: September 08, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5740872)
What? No love for Raging Bull?
   184. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 08, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5740873)
Since you're BTF's Bard of Boxing, which boxing (and wrestling) movies over the years strike you as the most and least realistic, not just in the boxing scenes but in the overall portrayal of the entire enterprise?

Cinderella Man wasn’t bad in that respect, but of course they screwed up all the actual historical parts of the biography (making Max Baer an ####### is the boxing equivalent of doing a Jackie Robinson biopic with Jackie as an anti-white revolutionary).


I agree with what you write about the slandering of Baer,** but IIRC weren't the boxing scenes in that movie pretty much nonstop punching on a level that movies usually reserved for western bar brawls with balsa wood chairs?

** Speaking of Baer, what do you think of The Prizefighter and the Lady, the one where Baer fought Primo Carnera in a foreshadowing of their actual title bout?

And what do you think of The Wrestler? The scene where Mickey Rourke and his fellow wrestlers are sitting in a near-empty room at a memorabilia show, vainly waiting for someone to buy their autographed pictures, is as poignant as if Rourke had been a 10 year old who'd just been diagnosed with polio.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I always thought Daniel Day Lewis in The Boxer has good fight scenes. Harder They Fall, Creed, Fat City, and The Fighter all were good and had good fight scenes. I think the best might have been The Set-Up with Robert Ryan (who knew how to box)

Indeed, Ryan had an undefeated career as a college boxer at Dartmouth. And The Set-Up is one of the best boxing movies ever, if not the best. But then Robert Ryan never gave anything but an A-level performance in whatever film he was in.
   185. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 08, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5740875)
What? No love for Raging Bull?

The only trouble with boxing movies is that few of them are unredeemingly bad, and there are almost too many good ones to remember. Sort of the exact opposite of baseball movies.

But yes, Raging Bull is terrific, although I have to admit I didn't like it as much the second and third time around as I did when it first came out.
   186. Morty Causa Posted: September 08, 2018 at 11:54 AM (#5740881)
I thought Raging Bull was good when it came out, but I've never had the slightest urge to revisit it.

Somebody above mentioned John Huston's Fat City. Huston boxed, too, as a young man. Indeed, I think boxing at one time was all over the place. I remember when I was in elementary school in the '50s there were boxing competitions at the sport level in high schools. Within a few years, though, it had disappeared. It went from being everywhere to being nowhere except in specialized competitions, like Golden Gloves.
   187. BDC Posted: September 08, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5740883)
H&U, I am glad you are finding those mysteries by Pierre Lemaitre to be interesting. (Must be, since you started the second one :) Like you, probably, I wouldn't call them fun exactly, but they are truly suspenseful books. I recently read the fourth of them, more a long story than a full-scale novel, called Rosy & John. It actually comes into the timeline between Alex and Camille, though it doesn't matter if you read it out of order. It too is a page-turner (a race against the clock to stop a mad bomber).
   188. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 08, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5740884)
Somebody above mentioned John Huston's Fat City. Huston boxed, too, as a young man. Indeed, I think boxing at one time was all over the place. I remember when I was in elementary school in the '50s there were boxing competitions at the sport level in high schools. Within a few years, though, it had disappeared. It went from being everywhere to being nowhere except in specialized competitions, like Golden Gloves.

The Tale of Two Sports:

When TV sets were placed in every neighborhood bar in the late 40's and early 50's and boxing was being shown year around, fans who had been the lifeblood of boxing's roots decided to watch their sport for free rather than watch an inferior product in person. In turn this eventually led to the virtual disappearance of boxing from the public consciousness, which is what we have today.

By contrast, TV also killed off 2/3 of the minor leagues of the late 40's, and also caused MLB's attendance to take a nosedive when every home had a set, but baseball gradually found a way to prosper despite that reduced number of feeder leagues, and TV became baseball's best friend.

There's more to the story than TV, but without TV I don't think boxing would've suffered the same fate that it has.
   189. Morty Causa Posted: September 08, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5740887)
Actually, my impression as a child was that TV made boxing even more popular. For a while, anyway. There were weekly fight telecasts (Gillette became a name on everyone's lips because of its sponsorship) which people watched avidly, as I remember. I thought gambling scandals, mob influence, and the evident brutality and injury factor played a large part in its ultimate demise. The last especially applied to its place as an organized sport in schools.
   190. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 08, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5740895)
Indeed, Ryan had an undefeated career as a college boxer at Dartmouth. And The Set-Up is one of the best boxing movies ever, if not the best. But then Robert Ryan never gave anything but an A-level performance in whatever film he was in.

I always get him confused with Sterling Hayden.
   191. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 08, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5740896)
Actually, my impression as a child was that TV made boxing even more popular. For a while, anyway.

Yes, for awhile, as a spectator sport. But it killed the clubs, which eventually dried up the talent and contributed to boxing's decline.

I thought gambling scandals, mob influence, and the evident brutality and injury factor played a large part in its ultimate demise. The last especially applied to its place as an organized sport in schools.

That indeed also played a part, but those factors long predated the coming of TV. And when a sport is truly popular, no amount of scandal can do more than cause temporary damage. See football, college, and basketball, college, and football, pro.
   192. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 08, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5740898)
Indeed, Ryan had an undefeated career as a college boxer at Dartmouth. And The Set-Up is one of the best boxing movies ever, if not the best. But then Robert Ryan never gave anything but an A-level performance in whatever film he was in.

I always get him confused with Sterling Hayden.


Hayden was the blonde, Ryan the one with dark hair. But they were contemporaries who both specialized in brooding and complex gangsters and other villainous types, so it's understandable why they'd be conflated. They were both chiseled look handsome, but they both had no interest in romantic lead roles.
   193. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 08, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5740904)
I always get him confused with Sterling Hayden.

Hayden was the blonde, Ryan the one with dark hair. But they were contemporaries who both specialized in brooding and complex gangsters and other villainous types, so it's understandable why they'd be conflated. They were both chiseled look handsome, but they both had no interest in romantic lead roles.


Hayden was in The Killing, one of my favorites.
   194. McCoy Posted: September 08, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5740905)
Robert's the guy who could have passed for Ted Williams in a biopic about his life in Islamorada.
   195. Morty Causa Posted: September 08, 2018 at 01:25 PM (#5740909)
The Killing is ultimately a good movie, if kind of a mess and a ripoff of The Asphalt Jungle, which is the better movie, I think. It's kind of funny that Hayden is the lead in both.
   196. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 08, 2018 at 01:34 PM (#5740911)
The boxing scenes in Rocky are ridiculously bad and unrealistic.


The pairs mixed figure skating scene is even worse.
   197. Morty Causa Posted: September 08, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5740914)
It's kind of funny that Hayden is the lead in both.

Bogart is the lead in the two best detective movies ever made. And it isn't funny at all.
   198. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 08, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5740922)
Robert's the guy who could have passed for Ted Williams in a biopic about his life in Islamorada.

In physical appearance, sure, but Hayden would've been born for the role. He was far more comfortable on sea than he ever was on the land.
   199. Cowboy Popup Posted: September 08, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5740936)
Superheroes bore me and always have, and most action movies are just a variant of that genre.

I think we are talking about different genres. The only superhero movies that spring to mind as true action movies are the first two Blade movies and Civil War.

I suppose this may be splitting a hair, but I would not consider most superhero movies to be in the same genre as John Wick or Running Man.
   200. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 08, 2018 at 05:58 PM (#5740971)
Bill Daily died. Actor from I Dream of Jeanne and Bob Newhart Show.
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