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Sunday, December 04, 2016

OT - College Football Bowl Spectacular (December 2016 - January 2017)

December 30   8:00 PM  Orange Bowl            Michigan v. Florida State

December 31   3:00 PM  Peach Bowl             Washington v. Alabama
              7:00 PM  Fiesta Bowl            Ohio State v. Clemson

January 2     1:00 PM  Cotton Bowl            Wisconsin v. Western Michigan
              5:00 PM  Rose Bowl              Penn State v. USC
              8:30 PM  Sugar Bowl             Oklahoma v. Auburn

January 9     8:30 PM  Championship Game      Peach winner v. Fiesta winner
Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 04, 2016 at 03:30 PM | 412 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: college football, off-topic

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   1. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 04, 2016 at 10:21 PM (#5362363)
December 17   2:00 PM  New Mexico Bowl        UT-San Antonio v. New Mexico
              3:30 PM  Las Vegas Bowl         Houston v. San Diego State
              5:30 PM  Sunshine Classic       Central Florida v. Arkansas State
              5:30 PM  Camellia Bowl          Toledo v. Appalachian State
              9:00 PM  New Orleans Bowl       Southern Miss v. UL-Lafayette

December 19   2:30 PM  Miami Beach Bowl       Central Michigan v. Tulsa

December 20   7:00 PM  Boca Raton Bowl        Western Kentucky v. Memphis
              
December 21   9:00 PM  Poinsettia Bowl        BYU v. Wyoming

December 22   7:00 PM  Humanitarian Bowl      Colorado State v. Idaho
              
December 23   1:00 PM  Bahamas Bowl           Old Dominion v. Eastern Michigan
              4:30 PM  Armed Forces Bowl      Navy v. Louisiana Tech
              8:00 PM  Mobile Alabama Bowl    Ohio v. Troy

December 24   8:00 PM  Hawai'i Bowl           Middle Tennessee v. Hawaii

December 26  11:00 AM  St. Petersburg Bowl    Miami v. Mississippi State
              2:30 PM  Cherry Bowl            Boston College v. Maryland
              5:00 PM  Independence Bowl      NC State v. Vanderbilt

December 27  12:00 PM  Heart of Dallas Bowl   Army v. North Texas
              3:30 PM  Military Bowl          Temple v. Wake Forest
              7:00 PM  Holiday Bowl           Minnesota v. Washington State
             10:15 PM  Copper Bowl            Baylor v. Boise State

December 28   2:00 PM  Gotham Bowl            Northwestern v. Pittsburgh
              5:30 PM  Tangerine Bowl         West Virginia v. Miami (FL)
              8:30 PM  San Francisco Bowl     Indiana v. Utah
              9:00 PM  Texas Bowl             Kansas State v. Texas A&M

December 29   2:00 PM  Birmingham Bowl        South Florida v. South Carolina
              5:30 PM  Queen City Bowl        Arkansas v. Virginia Tech
              9:00 PM  Alamo Bowl             Colorado v. Oklahoma State

December 30  12:00 PM  Liberty Bowl           TCU v. Georgia
              2:00 PM  Sun Bowl               North Carolina v. Stanford
              3:30 PM  Music City Bowl        Nebraska v. Tennessee
              5:30 PM  Arizona Bowl           South Alabama v. Air Force

December 31  11:00 AM  Citrus Bowl            Louisville v. LSU
             l1:00 AM  Gator Bowl             Georgia Tech v. Kentucky

January 2     1:00 PM  Hall of Fame Bowl      Iowa v. Florida
   2. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 04, 2016 at 10:32 PM (#5362367)
Houston playing on December 17. Not exactly how they hoped the season would end. Although the coach still got his wish.
   3. Howie Menckel Posted: December 04, 2016 at 10:45 PM (#5362371)
my favorite bowls (for some reason there are no crappy bowl games in January this year):

Dec. 17 — Camelia Bowl, Toledo vs. Appalachian State, Montgomery, Ala., 5:30 p.m. (ESPN)

Dec. 19 — Miami Beach Bowl, Tulsa vs. Central Michigan, Miami, 2:30 p.m. (ESPN)

Dec. 20 — Boca Raton Bowl, Memphis vs. Western Kentucky, Boca Raton, Fla., 7 p.m. (ESPN)

Dec. 21 — Poinsettia Bowl, BYU vs. Wyoming, San Diego, 9 p.m. (ESPN)

Dec. 23 — Bahamas Bowl, Old Dominion vs. Eastern Michigan, Nassau, Bahamas, 1 p.m. (ESPN)

Dec. 23 — Dollar General Bowl, Ohio vs. Troy, Mobile, Ala., 8 p.m. (ESPN)

Dec. 26 — Quick Lane Bowl, Boston College vs. Maryland, Detroit, 2:30 p.m. (ESPN2)

Dec. 27 — Holiday Bowl, Minnesota vs. Washington State, San Diego, 7 p.m. (ESPN)

Dec. 27 — Cactus Bowl, Baylor vs. Boise State, Phoenix, 10:15 p.m. (ESPN)

Dec. 28 — Pinstripe Bowl, Pittsburgh vs. Northwestern, Bronx, N.Y., 2 p.m. (ESPN)

Dec. 28 — Foster Farms Bowl, Indiana vs. Utah, Santa Clara, Calif., 8:30 p.m. (FOX)

Dec. 30 — Arizona Bowl, South Alabama vs. Air Force, Tucson, Ariz., 5:30 p.m. (ASN)

   4. ursus arctos Posted: December 04, 2016 at 11:01 PM (#5362374)
At eight letters for both schools, is the Dollar General Bowl the most minimalist of all time?

Acronyms should not be eligible for this.
   5. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 04, 2016 at 11:03 PM (#5362375)
Am I the only one who'd rather see Louisville against Michigan instead of Florida state?

And wisconsin against Oklahoma instead of auburn?

And am I wrong to think the main reason that didnt happen is that Louisville's fan base is smaller and less rabid?
   6. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 04, 2016 at 11:11 PM (#5362376)
And wisconsin against Oklahoma instead of auburn?

That one was literally impossible. The Sugar Bowl has a contract with the SEC.

And Louisville deserves what it got after embarrassing itself the last two weeks of the season.
   7. PeteF3 Posted: December 05, 2016 at 12:24 AM (#5362393)
The Sugar Bowl is always Big 12 vs. SEC in the years when it's not a semifinal. That said, this is one year where the SEC really doesn't deserve to have any other team in the NY6 on merit. But them's the breaks and I'm guessing this year will be more of an exception than a rule.

I think Michigan-FSU is a great match-up. It's fresh (they last played around 1992 or so), and Dalvin Cook vs. the Michigan line will be an intriguing game within the game.
   8. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 05, 2016 at 12:45 AM (#5362398)
8-4 Pitt vs. 6-6 Northwestern could be a mismatch. In addition to the big wins, 3 of Pitt's losses are by a total of 11 points, with one big loss to Miami.

Although all of Northwestern's losses were pretty close except the one to Minnesota for some reason. And losing 22-21 to Western Michigan on September 3rd looks good now.
   9. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 05, 2016 at 12:49 AM (#5362403)
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
   10. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 05, 2016 at 01:23 AM (#5362410)
So what do you think that Michigan feels like, after beating Penn State into a pulp and losing to Ohio State by about an inch's worth of ball placement? (Yeah, I know about the Iowa game.)
they lost 2 of their last 3 and their only win outside the state of michigan is versus rutgers. they get no sympathy.

michigan, clemson and ohio state all peaked earlier in the season and none of them were playing their best football in november. i don't think any of them are very good.

i give credit to washington for at least this much, just like penn state they got better every week and they played their best game on saturday. granted, i don't think washington or penn state are very good either.

and i'm not buying alabama as an unbeatable juggernaut. as far as i can tell, the best offense they played this year was LSU, which, you know, wow. they had a great defense, they played a schedule full of middling offenses and what do you know, they happened to look good doing it. obviously they get credit for not taking a week off and getting beat, but they're not invulnerable.
   11. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 05, 2016 at 01:53 AM (#5362415)
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK
BELK


My son's name is also Belk.
   12. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 05, 2016 at 01:56 AM (#5362416)
[8]One of those close losses was to FCS Illinois State, though I guess to be fair they did make the playoffs despite their 6-5 record.

It was possibly the worst college football game I've ever attended, with Illinois/OSU '11 where OSU seemingly ran HB Dive the entire game, winning 17-7 while completing one pass.
   13. The Honorable Ardo Posted: December 05, 2016 at 02:42 AM (#5362420)
I think it's an absolute travesty that Ohio State is in the playoff and Penn State isn't. (I'm a Michigan State Spartan, for the record.)

Both teams beat Wisconsin by a touchdown. They also both ran over Indiana, Maryland, and Rutgers.

In crossover games, Ohio State demolished Nebraska but struggled with Northwestern. Penn State struggled with Minnesota but demolished Iowa (who beat Michigan) and Purdue. That's a push.

Against the Michigan teams, Ohio State had a 47-43 scoring margin and won two nail-biters. Penn State had a 55-61 scoring margin, with one blowout win and one blowout loss. Slight edge, Buckeyes.

In non-conference play, Ohio State had the impressive win at Oklahoma and two cupcakes. Penn State had one cupcake, the close road loss to a darned good team in Pitt, and a hard-fought win over non-cupcake (and AAC champion) Temple. That's a push.

I don't see anything in Ohio State's schedule that outweighs the head-to-head loss and not winning one's own division. Am I nuts?
   14. Stevey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 03:05 AM (#5362422)
michigan ... peaked earlier in the season and none of them were playing their best football in november


So when Michigan's QB had one arm? I thought injuries were a valid excuse for poor results.

That's a push.


Wins are better than losses.

We can look at FPI game scores to better compare Ohio and Penn's performance in those games. Wisconsin, Indiana, and Rutgers are all similar. OSU has an 86 to PSU's 72 against Maryland. There's some separation there. Nebraska and Iowa games are similar. Northwestern gave up a 79, Minnesota 63. I could go further, but up and down the board, OSU's performances were better, and thats why they finish higher in just about every computer poll, result or drive-by-drive based. No, they really aren't particularly close. Michigan should be above Penn State too.
   15. My name is RMc and I feel extremely affected Posted: December 05, 2016 at 07:28 AM (#5362427)
I think it's an absolute travesty that Ohio State is in the playoff and Penn State isn't.

How does a team that doesn't win its conference -- or even make it to the conference's championship game -- play for the national championship? (A horribly-officiated game in Columbus helped. Of course, nobody told Michigan to lose to Iowa, now did they?)
   16. TDF, trained monkey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 09:49 AM (#5362459)
How does a team that doesn't win its conference -- or even make it to the conference's championship game -- play for the national championship?
Because of this:
Of course, nobody told Michigan to lose to Iowa, now did they?
The entire rest of the season plays out exactly the same except Michigan beats Iowa, and it's OSU instead of PSU in the conference championship game and no one says a word.

Ohio State had the best out of conference win of any FBS team, no out of conference losses, and their only in-conference loss was on a botched field goal on the road. There are 11 other teams playing in the prime bowls, and OSU beat 3 of them - 2 on the road.
   17. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: December 05, 2016 at 09:56 AM (#5362466)
December 20 7:00 PM Boca Raton Bowl Western Kentucky v. Memphis
This one's going to be stupidly fun. I hope the scoreboard operator is nice and limber. Does the scoreboard in Boca support triple digits?
   18. will Posted: December 05, 2016 at 10:02 AM (#5362472)
#14

"We can look at FPI game scores to better compare Ohio and Penn's performance in those games."

One doesn't confuse Michigan and Michigan State, Ohio and Ohio State, nor should there be confusion between The University of Pennsylvania(Penn)and The Pennsylvania State University (Penn State).

Carry on........
   19. Howie Menckel Posted: December 05, 2016 at 10:03 AM (#5362473)
Ohio State's loss to Penn State played ZERO role in their playoff matchup. The game never happened. Then the Buckeyes barely survived Michigan State the following week, and Penn State crushed Michigan State the week after that. But none of it mattered. All bow to our Buckeye overlords.
   20. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 05, 2016 at 10:24 AM (#5362485)
Wins are better than losses.
but are they? really? a win over portland state says nothing about washington. it's basically a DH, it can't hurt you defensively, but you should get dinged on the positional adjustment. losing to pitt isn't good, but it should be valued like a poor fielding LFer. at least you're in the game and not on the bench.
We can look at FPI game scores to better compare Ohio and Penn's performance in those games

i'm not familiar with FPI game score, but there's a reason why the CFP committee doesn't use margin of victory as a component. penn state, ohio state and michigan all beat rutgers by name a score and since the committee does not want to incentivize teams running up the score, those games are taken as equal. there may be a difference between winning 39-0, 58-0 and 78-0, but acknowledging that difference opens a can of worms that should probably be left closed.
   21. TDF, trained monkey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 10:33 AM (#5362496)
Ohio State's loss to Penn State played ZERO role in their playoff matchup.
It was 1 game, on the road.*
Then the Buckeyes barely survived Michigan State the following week
..but they won. Wins matter.
Penn State crushed Michigan State the week after that.
How about how either team fared vs. Michigan? How about how either team fared outside of the conference?
But none of it mattered.
Sure it mattered -all of it mattered. But the rest of OSU's season (blowing out Oklahoma on the road, beating undefeated Nebraska by 59, beating Michigan) also mattered.

Penn State was taken to overtime - at home - by a crappy Minnesota team. Does that matter?

One of the CBS Sports writers made a great point - imagine Alabama losing their last 2 games, to Auburn and Florida. Would you take them out of the playoff? Despite what you and others want to think, that one loss by OSU doesn't (and shouldn't) disqualify them from being one of the 4 best teams in the country.

*EDIT: And it probably did matter. Imagine an undefeated OSU, champion of the toughest conference. They could've easily been the #1 seed.
   22. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 05, 2016 at 10:41 AM (#5362503)
i'm not familiar with FPI game score, but there's a reason why the CFP committee doesn't use margin of victory as a component. penn state, ohio state and michigan all beat rutgers by name a score and since the committee does not want to incentivize teams running up the score, those games are taken as equal. there may be a difference between winning 39-0, 58-0 and 78-0, but acknowledging that difference opens a can of worms that should probably be left closed.


But surely there is a difference between winning 39-35, 58-35 and 78-35.

How about this: Use margin of victory as a component, but above, let's say, a 35-point margin it's all the same.
   23. Zonk, your King of All that Is Real Posted: December 05, 2016 at 10:59 AM (#5362519)
8-4 Pitt vs. 6-6 Northwestern could be a mismatch. In addition to the big wins, 3 of Pitt's losses are by a total of 11 points, with one big loss to Miami.

Although all of Northwestern's losses were pretty close except the one to Minnesota for some reason. And losing 22-21 to Western Michigan on September 3rd looks good now.


I think the Cats are better than their record --

Anthony Walker was banged up the first part of the season, and with the D Line very young - it was a suboptimal performance from their star LB the team could ill-afford. On the flip side, Austin Carr and Clayton Thorson really began to gel once B1G play started (Carr, believe it or not, led the B1G in every WR category... receptions, TDs, and yards).

The WMU loss - which indeed looks much better in hindsight - is a Clayton Thorson fumble out of the endzone away from being a win. No excuse for the ISU loss, of course, but I think there was clearly a bit of a hangover from the heartbreaking opener.

This was always going to be a rebuilding year - both sides of the line were pretty young and it took some time for it to come together.
   24. #6bid turns frustration into motivation and muscle Posted: December 05, 2016 at 11:24 AM (#5362539)
Two 5-7 teams, North Texas and Mississippi State, are playing in bowls. (And a slew of 6-6 teams which IMO is almost as bad.)

When did NCAA remove the restriction that 6 wins were needed for a bowl bid?
   25. TDF, trained monkey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 11:29 AM (#5362543)
When did NCAA remove the restriction that 6 wins were needed for a bowl bid?
Because the bowls need teams?

Serious question - can just create a bowl game, or does the NCAA need to approve it? If they don't (or legally can't), then they (the NCAA) need to come up with a way to fill all of the spots or I'd imagine there would be massive legal action against them.
   26. vagab0nd kills for candy Posted: December 05, 2016 at 11:41 AM (#5362558)
In non-conference play, Ohio State had the impressive win at Oklahoma and two cupcakes.


"cupcakes" don't usually go 9-3. tulsa's 3 loses were: @osu (by a lot), @houston (by a td) and @navy (by 2). they also beat 2 bowl teams, both road games, and both by more than 14 points.
   27. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 05, 2016 at 11:58 AM (#5362578)
I believe espn still 'owns' many of these lesser bowl games. They want the programming.
   28. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: December 05, 2016 at 12:03 PM (#5362585)
Serious question - can just create a bowl game, or does the NCAA need to approve it?
They need to approve it, and they've put a moratorium on new bowls through 2019.
I believe espn still 'owns' many of these lesser bowl games. They want the programming.
Yep, they sure do. My understanding is that the ratings are good enough that they could play games like the Camellia Bowl in an empty television studio and turn a profit. Ticket sales are largely irrelevant to the small ESPN-owned bowl games.
   29. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 05, 2016 at 12:12 PM (#5362592)
Penn State was taken to overtime - at home - by a crappy Minnesota team. Does that matter?

minnesota finished 8-4. PSU winning that game is roughly equivalent to washington beating utah, which was their best win until colorado.

   30. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 05, 2016 at 12:24 PM (#5362611)
in declining order of wins
penn state's schedule: ohio state (11-1), michigan (10-2), wisconsin (10-3), temple (10-3), pitt (8-4), iowa (8-4), minnesota (8-4), maryland (6-6), indiana (6-6), purdue (3-9), michigan state (3-9), rutgers (3-9), kent state (3-9)

washington's schedule: colorado (10-3), usc (9-3), stanford (9-3), utah (8-4), wazzou (8-4), idaho (8-4), cal (5-7), arizona state (5-7), oregon (4-8), oregon state (4-8), arizona (3-9) rutgers (3-9), portland state (FCS)


penn state played 3 teams who were as good as anyone washington played; 5 of washington's 9 conference games were against sub-500 teams; washington played a horrible non-conference schedule.

yeah, penn state lost 2 games, but washington only won 4.
   31. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 05, 2016 at 12:29 PM (#5362614)
minnesota finished 8-4. PSU winning that game is roughly equivalent to washington beating utah, which was their best win until colorado.


Yeah, really. "A crappy Minnesota team" would be 3-9. This year's Minnesota team is as good as a Minnesota team can be.
   32. Stevey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 12:42 PM (#5362624)
which was their best win until colorado.


44-6 over S&P+ #21 Stanford.

penn state lost 2 games, but washington only won 4.


Yeah, Penn State won five games, but Washington lost only one.

Ohio State's loss to Penn State played ZERO role in their playoff matchup. The game never happened. Then the Buckeyes barely survived Michigan State the following week, and Penn State crushed Michigan State the week after that. But none of it mattered. All bow to our Buckeye overlords


It mattered. It's just that a lot of other stuff mattered too, and the majority of that stuff went Ohio State's way.
   33. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: December 05, 2016 at 12:44 PM (#5362628)
In non-conference play, Ohio State had the impressive win at Oklahoma and two cupcakes. Penn State had one cupcake, the close road loss to a darned good team in Pitt, and a hard-fought win over non-cupcake (and AAC champion) Temple. That's a push.

This is where your argument breaks down. There's no basis for saying that Penn State faced a tougher OOC schedule, as by any reckoning the gap between Oklahoma and Pitt is at least as big as the gap between Temple and Tulsa. Penn State also faced a much easier schedule prior to the conference championship game because it replaced Ohio State's game in Madison with an in-conference cupcake at Purdue. So the Big 10 championship game wasn't so much an extra win for Penn State as it was evening up their schedules.

Ohio St played a much tougher slate than the other teams with 1 loss and as tough a schedule as any team with 2 losses. That's why there's a strong computer consensus that Ohio St is #2 behind only Alabama. As I've said, I would strongly prefer an 8-team playoff that included all the major conference champions and gave them home games against worthy at-large selections like Ohio St, but I can't fault the committee for including Ohio St this year based on the subjective nature of it all.
   34. TDF, trained monkey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 12:52 PM (#5362632)
This year's Minnesota team is as good as a Minnesota team can be.
Minnesota went 1-3 against teams with a winning record, beating only 7-5 Colorado State.
   35. Ithaca2323 Posted: December 05, 2016 at 01:51 PM (#5362700)
Some of PSU's perception problem might be related to their constant inability to bury teams early. They had a ton of games against middling competition where you'd look at halftime and think...meh (Kent State, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana)

I think PSU-Michigan is viewed differently than PSU-Michigan State, even though the final score is similar.


   36. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 05, 2016 at 02:10 PM (#5362725)
Minnesota went 1-3 against teams with a winning record, beating only 7-5 Colorado State.
minnesota lost to iowa, nebraska, wisconsin and penn state, so they're actually 1-4. but they also beat 6-6 maryland and 6-6 northwestern, so basically they won the games they should win and lost the games they should lose.


anyway, i'm now with menkle 100% that the committee cheated penn state. i just heard the CFP chairman say that ohio state got in over penn state because they were "unequivocally better". do words not have meanings? how can you say that a team who lost on the field is "unequivocally better" than the team that beat them? i can understand thinking that ohio state was better than penn state, but that assertion is incoherent.

that phrase isn't just a phrase. it meant that penn state's resume was never actually compared to ohio state's.


"unequivocally better" is meant for a situation where virginia tech beats clemson in the conference championship game. it doesn't matter that it happened; virginia tech is not getting into the conversation. penn state, the 5th ranked team, a conference champion, with a head to head victory, is not who that standard was created to address.

the committee failed here. they cheated.
   37. Stevey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 02:18 PM (#5362738)
I think PSU-Michigan is viewed differently than PSU-Michigan State, even though the final score is similar.


Penn State got outgained by Michigan 515-191, and only outgained State 463-343. Penn State punted more times in the first eight minutes against State than Michigan did the entire game. Michigan forced more three and outs in the first quarter against Penn State than Penn State did against MSU in the entire game. Penn State kicked a 21 yard field goal down four scores in the second half, just because they were so desperate to get anything on the board. The Michigan game should be viewed differently than the State game.
   38. Stevey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 02:32 PM (#5362764)
i just heard the CFP chairman say that ohio state got in over penn state because they were "unequivocally better". do words not have meanings? how can you say that a team who lost on the field is "unequivocally better" than the team that beat them? i can understand thinking that ohio state was better than penn state, but that assertion is incoherent.


I've watched you spend the last couple weeks arguing that Michigan's 39 point win over Penn State doesn't tell the full story, but now a game that hung on the edge of a knife does? Ohio State's 12 game performance was unequivocally better than Penn State's 13. No, that does not mean that every single factor is in Ohio State's favor. But a clear majority of them so obviously are. Don't lose to Pitt next time.
   39. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 05, 2016 at 02:44 PM (#5362784)
Penn State got outgained by Michigan 515-191, and only outgained State 463-343. Penn State punted more times in the first eight minutes against State than Michigan did the entire game. Michigan forced more three and outs in the first quarter against Penn State than Penn State did against MSU in the entire game. Penn State kicked a 21 yard field goal down four scores in the second half, just because they were so desperate to get anything on the board. The Michigan game should be viewed differently than the State game.

again, i'll mention that 5 of penn state's current defensive starters did not play in that game and they were on their 5th string middle linebacker in the 2nd half.

michigan smelled blood in the water and they took care of business that day and they get credit for that, but the team they beat is not the one that won the big ten.
I've watched you spend the last couple weeks arguing that Michigan's 39 point win over Penn State doesn't tell the full story,
hey, look at that.
but now a game that hung on the edge of a knife does? Ohio State's 12 game performance was unequivocally better than Penn State's 13. No, that does not mean that every single factor is in Ohio State's favor. But a clear majority of them are. Don't lose to Pitt next time.

if ohio state was unequivocally better than penn state, their game should not have hung on the edge of a knife. that's the point.

if you say that ohio state's 12 game performance was better than penn state's, that's fair, but that's not what happened. when the committee says that ohio state was unequivocally better that means that the conversation didn't even get that far. they cheated.
   40. Stevey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 02:53 PM (#5362794)
if ohio state was unequivocally better than penn state, their game should not have hung on the edge of a knife. that's the point.


Then Penn State isn't unequivocally better than Minnesota either. Minnesota for the playoffs.


if you say that ohio state's 12 game performance was better than penn state's, that's fair, but that's not what happened. when the committee says that ohio state was unequivocally better that means that the conversation didn't even get that far.


When the committee says Ohio State was unequivocally better, they are saying exactly that Ohio State's 12 game performance was better. What are you imagining the conversation to be before they compare 12 game performances? Out of one side of your mouth - vs Ohio State - head to head should be looked at first, then out of the other side - vs Michigan - well we need to look at other issues first.
   41. nick swisher hygiene Posted: December 05, 2016 at 03:17 PM (#5362815)
Gotta agree, the committee should incorporate the point spread. Beating the #### out of teams who don't belong on the same field with you is a significant part of college football tradition; it only makes sense that this fact be part of the playoff recipe...
   42. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 05, 2016 at 04:16 PM (#5362872)
When the committee says Ohio State was unequivocally better, they are saying exactly that Ohio State's 12 game performance was better. What are you imagining the conversation to be before they compare 12 game performances? Out of one side of your mouth - vs Ohio State - head to head should be looked at first, then out of the other side - vs Michigan - well we need to look at other issues first.

ohio state is unequivocally better than virginia tech. if VT had beaten clemson, ohio state would get in over them without a question. that's what that standard was meant to be used for. it was not meant to be a wall to protect the 3rd ranked team from a 5th ranked team who beat them on the field and won their conference. the committee abused their privilege in this situation and they cheated penn state out of a fair appraisal.


i haven't made an argument against michigan because they cooked themselves by losing 2 of the last 3. if you need me to make PSU's case against them: PSU has a conference title and michigan doesn't; PSU beat both teams that beat michigan (including iowa by 4 TDs); and yes, PSU ended the season on a 9 game win streak, whereas michigan, again, lost 2 of their last 3. PSU doesn't even need to devalue michigan's head to head win to make their case.


i don't think there's very much difference on the field between ohio state, clemson, washington, penn state, oklahoma, michigan and USC. i think they're all roughly comparable at this point in the season, so the distinction between them comes down to resume and narrative and the committee denied penn state a fair hearing.
   43. Stevey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 04:48 PM (#5362895)
SU ended the season on a 9 game win streak, whereas michigan, again, lost 2 of their last 3. PSU doesn't even need to devalue michigan's head to head win to make their case.


Clearly they do. Your first sentence draws selective endpoints to conveniently ignore that head-to-head.

that's what that standard was meant to be used for


But that's not the limit to what the standard is used for.

they cheated penn state out of a fair appraisal.


Neither of us were in the room to actually test this fantastical theory, but there's not much reason to believe that they didn't dig into Penn State's (or anyone else's) credentials. Penn State's cornerstone argument is being a conference champion. 11/12 teams to make it so far have been conference champions, and Penn State slipped past Michigan despite looking no better against Wisconsin than Michigan did. There's very little reason to believe that being a conference champ hasn't been highly valued, and thus Penn State had their argument heard. Losses in the first four weeks count as much as losses in the last four. Don't lose to Pitt.
   44. TDF, trained monkey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 05:08 PM (#5362916)
i don't think there's very much difference on the field between ohio state, clemson, washington, penn state, oklahoma, michigan and USC. i think they're all roughly comparable at this point in the season, so the distinction between them comes down to resume and narrative and the committee denied penn state a fair hearing.
Here is a list of 87 different computer rankings. Out of those 87, three have PSU ranked ahead of OSU.

Ohio State had a better record against a tougher schedule than Penn State. That they lost to Penn State is taken into account, as is the fact that Penn State won the conference championship and Ohio State didn't even play for it. But those are just 2 data points. :

The best team Penn State played on the road was Michigan. We know how that turned out.
The 2nd best team they played on the road was Pitt. We know how that turned out also.
The 3rd best team they played on the road was Indiana, who had a losing record in the Big 10.

The best team Ohio State played on the road was Penn State at night. Penn State won on a botched FG attempt.
The second best team they played on the road was Oklahoma at night. Ohio State won by 21, but the game wasn't even that close.
The third best team they played on the road was Wisconsin at night. Ohio State won by 7 in overtime.

So it's not just that OSU had a tougher schedule (Sagarin has Ohio State with the #7 schedule, PSU #16 including the Big 10 Championship); it's that except for UM all of OSU's toughest games were night road games and they came out of those games with a better record than PSU (and was in position to win the one game they lost), while PSU wasn't ever in either game they lost.

Better wins. Better on the road against better opponents. Their one loss a close one to a highly ranked team, while PSU had a blowout loss to a highly rated team and a big loss to an unranked opponent; aren't those part of PSU's record?.

   45. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 05, 2016 at 05:39 PM (#5362929)
Neither of us were in the room to actually test this fantastical theory, but there's not much reason to believe that they didn't dig into Penn State's (or anyone else's) credentials.

the chairman of the committee himself has said repeatedly that they didn't compare penn state and ohio state.
Penn State's cornerstone argument is being a conference champion. 11/12 teams to make it so far have been conference champions, and Penn State slipped past Michigan despite looking no better against Wisconsin than Michigan did. There's very little reason to believe that being a conference champ hasn't been highly valued, and thus Penn State had their argument heard. Losses in the first four weeks count as much as losses in the last four. Don't lose to Pitt.

the cornerstone of penn state's case against ohio state and michigan is that they have a conference championship. it's a cornerstone argument because that's one of the 5 criteria the committee was supposed to use. head to head was another, and penn state beat ohio state. that's 2 out of 5 criteria where penn state has an unequivocal advantage over a team the committee considered to be 'unequivocally better' than them.

that is not how this was supposed to work.


   46. TDF, trained monkey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 05:53 PM (#5362934)
the cornerstone of penn state's case against ohio state and michigan is that they have a conference championship. it's a cornerstone argument because that's one of the 5 criteria the committee was supposed to use. head to head was another, and penn state beat ohio state. that's 2 out of 5 criteria where penn state has an unequivocal advantage over a team the committee considered to be 'unequivocally better' than them.
That's not true.

These are the guidelines as set up:
When circumstances at the margins indicate that teams are comparable, then the following criteria must be considered:
 Championships won
 Strength of schedule
 Head-to-head competition (if it occurred)
 Comparative outcomes of common opponents (without incenting margin of victory)
The committee chairman has made clear over the past couple of weeks that they think OSU and PSU "are not close".
   47. Howie Menckel Posted: December 05, 2016 at 06:06 PM (#5362938)
is it harder to win a road game at night?
   48. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 05, 2016 at 06:13 PM (#5362941)
The committee chairman has made clear over the past couple of weeks that they think OSU and PSU "are not close".
yes, that's how they cheated penn state out of the conversation.

unequivocally better should mean what it says. it should not be the difference between a made field goal vs. pitt and a missed 2 point conversion vs. michigan state. when the margin is that narrow, the difference is not unequivocal. the committee did not do its job.

   49. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: December 05, 2016 at 06:15 PM (#5362942)
Even as a PSU grad, I'm fine with the statement that the four best teams are in the playoffs. However:

while PSU wasn't ever in either game they lost.

I wasn't aware of the criterion that pulling within 42-39 with 5 minutes left in the game is "wasn't ever in either game they lost".
   50. spivey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 06:36 PM (#5362951)
Ohio State had a better record. And had a better OOC win.

I actually think if they have the same record, the conference championship is a reasonable tie breaker even though pretty much all of the advanced stats show Ohio State to be a clear tick better than Penn State.
   51. TDF, trained monkey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 07:00 PM (#5362961)
it should not be the difference between a made field goal vs. pitt and a missed 2 point conversion vs. michigan state.
How about losing a game by 39? How about losing the only 2 road games you played vs. teams with a winning record?
   52. TDF, trained monkey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 07:03 PM (#5362963)
I wasn't aware of the criterion that pulling within 42-39 with 5 minutes left in the game is "wasn't ever in either game they lost".
Yeah, I screwed that up. But they weren't close until the 4th quarter.
   53. The Honorable Ardo Posted: December 05, 2016 at 07:07 PM (#5362967)
I'll qualify my earlier remarks. In the abstract, I still have a big problem with a non-division winner - who lost to its conference champion - reaching the Playoff instead of the conference champion.

In this specific case, it's tricky because you've persuaded me that Ohio State is a notch better than Penn State. Jeff Sagarin's ratings have it like this:

Alabama and Ohio State well ahead of everybody else
(2nd tier)
Michigan, Clemson, Washington
(3rd tier)
Penn State, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Southern Cal

That looks about right.
   54. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: December 05, 2016 at 07:08 PM (#5362968)
But they weren't close until the 4th quarter.


No doubt Pitt was kicking their butt for 45 minutes. But, well, we do know how long the games are ... ;)

PSU is about as good as a team can be with a terrible offensive line and a weak (as in pure strength) D-line (albeit athletic).
   55. Stevey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 07:10 PM (#5362970)
Here is a list of 87 different computer rankings. Out of those 87, three have PSU ranked ahead of OSU.


92. One that has Penn State ahead has Temple over Clemson, Kansas St over Michigan, and Notre Dame over Louisville. Another really likes the Big Ten, with eight teams in the top 13. Michigan is the last of those eight, one spot ahead of #14 Ohio (no, not Ohio St), who is one spot ahead of #15 Florida St. Oklahoma is #29, behind North Carolina. The third really likes what USC has done lately, putting them at #2, but otherwise has nothing as outlandish as the first two, just a few more oddities than the usual computer poll has.
   56. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: December 05, 2016 at 07:15 PM (#5362971)
in declining order of wins
penn state's schedule: ohio state (11-1), michigan (10-2), wisconsin (10-3), temple (10-3), pitt (8-4), iowa (8-4), minnesota (8-4), maryland (6-6), indiana (6-6), purdue (3-9), michigan state (3-9), rutgers (3-9), kent state (3-9)

washington's schedule: colorado (10-3), usc (9-3), stanford (9-3), utah (8-4), wazzou (8-4), idaho (8-4), cal (5-7), arizona state (5-7), oregon (4-8), oregon state (4-8), arizona (3-9) rutgers (3-9), portland state (FCS)


penn state played 3 teams who were as good as anyone washington played; 5 of washington's 9 conference games were against sub-500 teams; washington played a horrible non-conference schedule.

yeah, penn state lost 2 games, but washington only won 4.
I'm not interested in debating about Penn State or any of the other teams. I just wanted to point out that at least one of the systems (FPI) specifically calculates how difficult it was to achieve a team's win/loss record considering it's schedule (calling it "strength of record"). This method apparently only counts wins, losses and strength of opponents. The fewer losses you have, obviously the harder that was to achieve. The same for the better your strength of schedule. I don't think margin of victory plays any part.

Alabama comes out on top (very hard schedule, no losses), followed by OSU, Clemson, Washington, Penn State, Oklahoma, Colorado, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Western Michigan.

Looked at this way, probably the only surprise is how far down Michigan is. The extra game of course adds to the level of difficulty, and Michigan didn't play one. (Nor did Oklahoma or OSU of course, but it's only one factor).
   57. Stevey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 07:20 PM (#5362973)
Jackson, Watson, Westbrook, Mayfield and Peppers are the Heisman finalists. The Ohio State fans I know are very unhappy about one of those.
   58. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 05, 2016 at 08:48 PM (#5362994)
I didn't think we would somehow have a more overrated LB as a finalist at the Heisman show than Mantei Teo. I've heard TEHHHH FEARRRRRR cases made for Peppers that would make Jim Rice blush.
   59. Stevey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 09:16 PM (#5362998)
've heard TEHHHH FEARRRRRR cases made for Peppers that would make Jim Rice blush.


What arguments would you like to hear about a guy who wasn't put in a position to rack up stats? He was the focal point of the best defense in the country by S&P+. What Michigan did defensively was predicated on using Peppers like they did.
   60. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 05, 2016 at 10:07 PM (#5363015)
Well the non traditional stats also say he wasn't necessarily effective against the pass when targeted, though I guess he did improve his All Big Ten DB selection with 0 INTs last year with a season with a pick on a tipped ball in the finale. Lewis is the best defensive player on that team. Never mind TJ Watt and Hooker were better playmakers in the B1G at LB all season, in pretty stout defenses as well. Peppers kind of vanished after September (I'm sure he did something against Rutgers though). I'm not buying the Peppers as a Jedi anoints him as one of the five best college football players this season. He's a terrific talent, just a bit force fed. HIs is a little reminiscent of a Terrell Farley type, though he lacks the Terrell Farley blow up moments or a more recent vintage T. Matthieu type playmaking that convinces me that this guy is another level talent. I guess people love the novelty of a few carries on offense and returning kicks.
   61. Stevey Posted: December 05, 2016 at 10:38 PM (#5363019)
No, he's not an elite cover corner, but his job was to play in the box on the vast majority of downs, with the benefit of not needing to come off the field when the offense went 4+ wide. Much like Lewis didn't rack up big numbers because offenses wouldn't throw his way, Peppers was essential in defending the run and pressuring the QB even when he wasn't the one getting mentioned in the box score. He was frequently asked to cover the edge, a hugely important role defending today's read options, forcing the handoff back to the inside where Michigan's d-line would make the play. He also had a large number of TFLs and pressures for a guy who's role at the beginning of the play wasn't always a straight rush to the backfield.

He won all Big Ten defensive player of the year, which ignores that novelty act part. He was also neck and neck with Jackson for best kick returner in all of college, and, yes, he did add a bit on offense. No, his 170 yards and three TDs was no Woodson's 246 yards and three TDs, and I do wonder if his case is better if he's not seen as a "novelty" to let people realize that, yes, he actually was an elite defender, even if he wasn't the best at any one thing, like Lewis or Watt.
   62. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 06, 2016 at 03:45 AM (#5363063)
That one computer ranking is hilarious cmd. Ohio U was an 8-5 MAC team who lost to Texas State. Texas State(A team their own rankings has 127 out of 128) went 0-10 in their other FBS games, losing 9 of those games by 20+ points.
   63. spivey Posted: December 06, 2016 at 09:17 AM (#5363108)
Browning not being a finalist is insane to me. I get he had some bad games against Colorado and USC, but his overall numbers and play were still very impressive. And it's not like the other guys on this list didn't have off games too. Except for Peppers, he was lights out every game.
   64. The Polish Sausage Racer Posted: December 06, 2016 at 12:56 PM (#5363346)
It just makes me sad that there will be no college football on New Year's Day.
   65. dlf Posted: December 06, 2016 at 02:03 PM (#5363456)
i'm not buying alabama as an unbeatable juggernaut. as far as i can tell, the best offense they played this year was LSU, which, you know, wow. they had a great defense, they played a schedule full of middling offenses and what do you know, they happened to look good doing it. obviously they get credit for not taking a week off and getting beat, but they're not invulnerable.


I'm an Alabama fan (and have tix to the Peach Bowl) but would certainly agree that they aren't an unbeatable juggernaut. Hurts is not very accurate - his stats are greatly padded by a lot of what amounts to an inside handoff although technically a forward pass on the jet sweep. The O line is not as strong as it has been and Cam Robinson, in particular, has been beat alot by speed rushers. The D backs were great, but injury to Jackson left them vulernable if a team can match up against press man coverage. ... Of course all that said they still should be the favorites, particularly with a dominating front seven and a lot of different approaches offensively.
   66. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 06, 2016 at 02:32 PM (#5363516)
matt rhule to baylor.

hmmm, a temple coach going to a program that's in shambles and soon to be crushed by NCAA sanctions. what could possibly go wrong?


rhule saved temple after addazio ran it into the ground, and he ran a clean program, so i have no complaints about his time here, but this is a horrible decision. i guess that hiring someone with as much class as rhule could signal that baylor actually wants to clean up their mess, but that's gonna go out the window when rhule weeds out 10-20 players before next season and brings in a decimated recruiting class. considering how loyal the players and alumni still are to art briles, this is going to be really ugly for rhule.
   67. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 10, 2016 at 03:26 PM (#5366222)
It's kinda weird how Army-Navy has become an Oregon-esque uniform showcase.
   68. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: December 10, 2016 at 03:46 PM (#5366232)
Combined passing statline after 1 quarter. 3 attempts, 0 completions, 2 interceptions.
   69. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: December 10, 2016 at 04:01 PM (#5366242)
Army's kickers are so ineffective they won't try a 32 yarder? Still, on 4th and only 2, a refreshing call regardless of how good the kicker is.
   70. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 10, 2016 at 04:56 PM (#5366251)
Army's Saving Private Ryan skit was much better than Navy's baby playing Battleship.
   71. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 10, 2016 at 05:30 PM (#5366263)
Army could be miles ahead right now. It's not just the turnovers, it's that three have come while moving the ball. Navy couldn't hold on to the ball in the first half, either, but it was generating zero yardage, so it wasn't throwing away scoring opportunities, it was just robbing itself of the opportunity to punt.
   72. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 10, 2016 at 05:44 PM (#5366267)
That was a terrific run. Night and day between the two halves for Abey.
   73. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 10, 2016 at 06:07 PM (#5366275)
Punting here seems like lunacy.
   74. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: December 10, 2016 at 07:39 PM (#5366302)
Punting here seems like lunacy.
Yes, one first down by Army would have almost killed off the game, and two did of course.

Army had 23 first downs on the day, and only had a couple 3 and outs.
   75. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: December 10, 2016 at 11:28 PM (#5366355)
But remember, its easier to stop the run late in games because you know its coming

   76. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 10, 2016 at 11:47 PM (#5366358)
Stidham to Auburn. That offense is going to set the world on fire.
   77. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: December 11, 2016 at 07:56 AM (#5366384)
But remember, its easier to stop the run late in games because you know its coming
Hehe. If this was a joke, it was well-played. Army only had 4 pass attempts all game, and didn't have a completion until the 4th quarter. Navy knew the run was coming all game long.
   78. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 14, 2016 at 10:28 AM (#5368097)
bump
   79. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 14, 2016 at 01:32 PM (#5368234)
Tarik Black to UM. Consensus top 150 kid, #1 in Connecticut. Had offers from most the SEC, ND, UM, O$U, etc. Early on was supposed to be a heavy O$U lean. UM and O$U are bringing in incredible classes. O$U's will be best ever by average star rating and UM could end up right behind them if the rumors on Najee Harris are true.
   80. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 02:10 PM (#5370105)
Syracuse has finally stopped extending an unwinnable game by fouling and the New Mexico Bowl is on the air. Am I really doing this again? I might be doing this again.
   81. Adam M Posted: December 17, 2016 at 04:14 PM (#5370166)
Thanks, Lance, for watching college football so I don't have to.
   82. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 04:22 PM (#5370167)
Well, you've missed San Diego State finally getting a first down on its fourth possession as the result of Houston running into the punter. It's stirring stuff.
   83. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 04:29 PM (#5370172)
Pumphrey got bottled up in the first quarter, but he just broke a 30-yard run. Ron Dayne begins to sweat -- not because Pumphrey is within 79 yards of his record, but because the meatball sub he's eating is spicy.
   84. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 04:47 PM (#5370182)
I'll say this for the New Mexico Bowl: with wind gusts up to 40, both teams are running the ball a lot and it's going by quickly.
   85. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 05:11 PM (#5370199)
I love that they're talking up the handmade pottery trophies, complete with tacky Gildan logos.
   86. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 05:47 PM (#5370216)
Pumphrey with a 32-yard touchdown to give SDSU the lead and pull within 10 yards of Dayne, and Musburger can't shut up about what a great third-down back he'll be in the NFL.
   87. Mike Webber Posted: December 17, 2016 at 05:54 PM (#5370222)
If you're watching NW Missouri State vs Northern Alabama playing for the division 2 title on ESPN2, you can see what the weather at my house looks like today. It's kind of a fun watch with snow blanketing the field, and guys with snow blowers running out during time outs to uncover the goal lines and sidelines.
   88. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 05:57 PM (#5370223)
Arkansas State blocks a punt for a touchdown, which might be decisive in the Battle of Offenses That Can't Get Out of Their Own Ways.
   89. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 06:03 PM (#5370224)
And Pumphrey's got the record.
   90. Howie Menckel Posted: December 17, 2016 at 06:19 PM (#5370227)
NC Central's excessive celebration penalty costs them

I gotta say, having this happen in the Celebration Bowl is a beautiful thing

sometimes, they just write themselves
   91. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 06:32 PM (#5370229)
Except nobody blocking the guy coming off the edge and letting him take the ball off the kicker's foot isn't really connected to the penalty.
   92. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 06:38 PM (#5370233)
Las Vegas Bowl appropriately ends with Ward's fourth interception of the second half. Shocking turnaround after Houston ate SDSU's lunch in the first 20 minutes.
   93. Mike Webber Posted: December 17, 2016 at 07:22 PM (#5370241)
NW Missouri state wins their 6th National Title 29-3 over No. Alabama. They now have the most D2 national titles, and their 3rd in the last 4 years.
   94. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 08:56 PM (#5370259)
Toledo passes on 4th-and-2 from the seven while trailing 31-28 with two minutes left, takes a delay of game, then pushes the field goal just wide. *That* is what it looks like when a penalty makes the difference between a made and missed kick.
   95. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 17, 2016 at 11:36 PM (#5370289)
Sugar Bowl, Jr. or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Aspartame might last about four hours, in large part because of the sequence at the end of the half that had Southern Miss spiking the ball after time expired, the refs calling for a second to be put on the clock, Lafayette stalling in an attempt to induce the booth to review an obviously incorrect call, and the call finally being overturned.
   96. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 18, 2016 at 01:25 AM (#5370299)
My god, the end of this game...

Southern Miss led 28-14 midway through the fourth and threw a jumpball that was tipped by the receiver, then hit his foot as he fell to the ground and caromed to the closing safety, who made a long return inside the 20, leading to a touchdown. Lafayette then got a stop with two minutes left, and Southern Miss's long snap was nearly over the punter's head, but he recovered and got the kick away.

On ULL's first play of the final drive, the pass went right through a linebacker's hands for a 20-yard completion. On the next play, Jennings was pressured and scrambled for five. This was with about 1:40 left, a timeout and 57 yards to go, so not too big a problem, but it was followed by a bunch of dawdling and two runs resulting in 4th-and-inches, so the clock was down to :46 as the refs measured. ULL had like 90 seconds to get a play called and be prepared to snap the ball on the ready for play but let another six seconds elapse before running for two yards. Southern Miss then called timeout. After a sack back at its own 40, ULL called its timeout with 28 seconds left and eventually turned the ball over on downs.

And it did last over four hours.
   97. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 19, 2016 at 01:21 PM (#5370821)
Christian McCaffrey is sitting out the Sun Bowl, citing potential long-term effects of exhaustion from repeatedly sprinting the length of the field against North Carolina's run defense.
   98. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 19, 2016 at 02:56 PM (#5370916)
Central Michigan had 4th-and-5 inside the Tulsa 40 on its opening drive, and the guys in the booth mentioned how the coaching staff told them they'd have to take chances to keep up with Tulsa's offense. CMU punted, and Tulsa drove 93 yards for a touchdown. It's at that point that I wrote "game over" in my notebook.
   99. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 19, 2016 at 05:59 PM (#5371084)
Tulsa's senior punter hadn't gotten on the field in a 55-10 game, so he got sent in as quarterback to take a knee on 4th-and-goal with under two minutes left. Shoulda let him kick a field goal or throw a pass or something.
   100. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 20, 2016 at 07:02 PM (#5371699)
Shock Linwood passing up the majesty and prestige of the Copper Bowl. Not liking this trend.
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