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Sunday, December 03, 2017

OT - College Football Bowl Spectacular (December 2017 - January 2018)

December 29   8:30 PM  Cotton Bowl            USC v. Ohio State

December 30   4:00 PM  Fiesta Bowl            Penn State v. Washington
              8:00 PM  Orange Bowl            Wisconsin v. Miami

January 1     1:00 PM  Peach Bowl             Central Florida v. Auburn
              5:00 PM  Rose Bowl              Georgia v. Oklahoma
              8:45 PM  Sugar Bowl             Alabama v. Clemson

January 8     8:00 PM  Championship Game      Rose winner v. Sugar winner
Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 03, 2017 at 03:09 PM | 133 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: college football, off-topic

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   1. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:35 PM (#5585278)
December 16   1:00 PM  New Orleans Bowl       Troy v. North Texas
              2:30 PM  Sunshine Classic       Western Kentucky v. Georgia State
              3:30 PM  Las Vegas Bowl         Boise State v. Oregon
              4:30 PM  New Mexico Bowl        Marshall v. Colorado State
              8:00 PM  Camellia Bowl          Middle Tennessee v. Arkansas State

December 19   7:00 PM  Boca Raton Bowl        Akron v. Florida Atlantic

December 20   8:00 PM  Frisco Bowl            Louisiana Tech v. SMU

December 21   8:00 PM  St. Petersburg Bowl    Temple v. Florida International

December 22  12:30 PM  Bahamas Bowl           UAB v. Ohio
              4:00 PM  Humanitarian Bowl      Central Michigan v. Wyoming

December 23  12:00 PM  Birmingham Bowl        Texas Tech v. South Florida
              3:30 PM  Armed Forces Bowl      San Diego State v. Army
              7:00 PM  Mobile Alabama Bowl    Appalachian State v. Toledo

December 24   8:30 PM  Hawai'i Bowl           Fresno State v. Houston

December 26   1:30 PM  Heart of Dallas Bowl   Utah v. West Virginia
              5:15 PM  Cherry Bowl            Duke v. Northern Illinois
              9:00 PM  Copper Bowl            Kansas State v. UCLA

December 27   1:30 PM  Independence Bowl      Southern Miss v. Florida State
              5:15 PM  Gotham Bowl            Iowa v. Boston College
              8:30 PM  San Francisco Bowl     Arizona v. Purdue
              9:00 PM  Texas Bowl             Texas v. Missouri

December 28   1:30 PM  Military Bowl          Virginia v. Navy
              5:15 PM  Tangerine Bowl         Virginia Tech v. Oklahoma State
              9:00 PM  Holiday Bowl           Washington State v. Michigan State
              9:00 PM  Alamo Bowl             Stanford v. TCU

December 29   1:00 PM  Queen City Bowl        Wake Forest v. Texas A&M
              3:00 PM  Sun Bowl               NC State v. Arizona State
              4:30 PM  Music City Bowl        Kentucky v. Northwestern
              5:30 PM  Arizona Bowl           Utah State v. New Mexico State

December 30  12:00 PM  Gator Bowl             Louisville v. Mississippi State
             l2:30 PM  Liberty Bowl           Iowa State v. Memphis

January 1    12:00 PM  Hall of Fame Bowl      Michigan v. South Carolina
              1:00 PM  Citrus Bowl            Notre Dame v. LSU

   2. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:55 PM (#5585292)
I like that Northwestern drew Kentucky, whose best win by far looks like South Carolina, a very long time ago. Over their last six games, Kentucky's only wins are over Tennessee and Vandy, with one SEC win between them.
   3. Nero Wolfe, Indeed Posted: December 03, 2017 at 07:34 PM (#5585324)
Taking a vacation day on New Year's Day. I drive a bus in Orlando and the last thing I want to do is face bowl game traffic on Orange Blossom Trail.
   4. RMc's Unenviable Situation Posted: December 03, 2017 at 07:46 PM (#5585336)
5:00 PM Rose Bowl Georgia v. Oklahoma
8:45 PM Sugar Bowl Alabama v. Clemson


Because nothing says "national championship" like "Hey, let's have three of the four teams from within a few hundred miles of each other! And two from the same friggin' conference...!"
   5. Mike Webber Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:01 PM (#5585393)
Because nothing says "national championship" like "Hey, let's have three of the four teams from within a few hundred miles of each other! And two from the same friggin' conference...!"


You would have hated the World Series from 1947 to 1956
   6. stevegamer Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:10 PM (#5585398)
St. Petersburg Bowl Temple v. Florida International


This is now the Gasparilla Bowl. A few people thought I was full of it, then I gave them the whole thing: The Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl.

My fiancee was sure I made that up. She's been sure I was doing that a number of times, and is still perfect with the 0-fer. You'd think she'd learn once it gets to 0-20 or more; and it is more.
   7. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:14 PM (#5585399)
The Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl.

That should be universally shortened to The Bad Boy Bowl in popular usage.
   8. jayjay Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:20 PM (#5585403)
One can dream...

1. Clemson (ACC)
16. Troy (Sun Belt)

8. USC (Pac 12)
9. Penn State (at large)

5. Ohio State (Big Ten)
12. UCF (AAC)

4. Alabama (at large)
13. Boise State (MWC)

6. Wisconsin (at large)
11. Washington (at large)

3. Georgia (SEC)
14. Toledo (MAC)

7. Auburn (at large)
10. Miami, Fla. (at large)

2. Oklahoma (Big 12)
15. Florida Atlantic (C-USA)
   9. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:26 PM (#5585409)
This is now the Gasparilla Bowl.

They can rebrand around the fake pirate festival all they want, but for the purposes of the Bowl Spectacular, it's the St. Petersburg Bowl until the end of time.
   10. Mike Webber Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:36 PM (#5585414)
December 26 1:30 PM Heart of Dallas Bowl Utah v. West Virginia


I would have done a decent job guessing which bowls the Big 12 teams would have ended up in, but I would have missed this one for sure. I would have guessed a bowl game in Dallas would have taken Texas Tech for sure. Instead they ended up in Birmingham.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think you'd sell more tickets in Dallas to Tech fans than to WVU fans, especially on December 26.
   11. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:43 PM (#5585417)
I would have done a decent job guessing which bowls the Big 12 teams would have ended up in, but I would have missed this one for sure. I would have guessed a bowl game in Dallas would have taken Texas Tech for sure. Instead they ended up in Birmingham.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think you'd sell more tickets in Dallas to Tech fans than to WVU fans, especially on December 26.


Likewise, sending Stanford to San Antonio. I'm sure the Holiday Bowl would have much rather had Stanford than Wash. St.
   12. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:45 PM (#5585419)
You follow this conference Cowboy, I still think if there was no championship game OU would have had the same record as Alabama, and would have been behind them in the playoff rankings and either of the B1G teams would have been wedged in ahead of them due to being a league champion and "having a 13th data point." It wouldn't be the first time it happened.
And maybe it wouldn't happen to OU or Texas, the rest of the league though...


Pulling from the older thread.

Mike, I don't disagree that the Committee is inclined to piss on the Big 12 every chance it gets. It has clearly decided that the Big 12 is inferior because of the brand of football it plays. It's also harder for the league to accrue 1- or 2-loss teams because everyone has to play each other and the teams having great years don't get to duck to the other ones that are. Add in the fact that two of the conference teams are complete garbage and yeah, it's going to be an uphill battle every year.

I don't think the conference title game changes that and the risk of the additional loss is greater than the payoff of the additional win. Just look at what happened to TCU. It has 3 losses, two of them to the #2 team in the nation. They are behind 3-loss ND (a team that got punished by two teams that are a step or two behind OU), 4-loss Stanford (with a loss to world beater San Diego St.) and UCF (which appears to be the gravest sin of all). Of the teams that lost this weekend, TCU dropped the most other than Auburn (which only fell so far because they were absurdly over-ranked to begin with to make sure the SEC would place at least one team).

Meanwhile, I'm not at all convinced the champ gets much of a bump for the win and is some truly bizarre sense, probably gets punished for it. Instead of one win against a top-10 or 15 team, it now has two against a top-15 or 20 team. It's not clear to me that that is better in the eyes of the committee, at least not when it comes to the Big 12.

Until the current Committee dies out and they get some fresh blood that realizes that more plays = more yards/points allowed on defense, the Big 12 is always going to be the least among equals in these rankings and it's only going to get in when the top Big 12 team is clearly better than most of the other leagues' champs (i.e. less losses). Adding the conference game just decreases the chances of that happening.
   13. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:47 PM (#5585420)
I would have done a decent job guessing which bowls the Big 12 teams would have ended up in, but I would have missed this one for sure. I would have guessed a bowl game in Dallas would have taken Texas Tech for sure. Instead they ended up in Birmingham.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think you'd sell more tickets in Dallas to Tech fans than to WVU fans, especially on December 26.


I could be wrong, but I think since the Big 12 had more bowl teams than bowl affiliations it had to give the last bowl to WVU because it finished ahead of Tech in the conference standings. Tech got an at-large bid somewhere. I'm sure the Heart of Dallas folks are disappointed.

Gotta say, I'm pumped to play Utah. That's a good program, down year or not and it's not a bad match up. UCLA would have been a nightmare for WVU's secondary.
   14. Voodoo Posted: December 03, 2017 at 11:27 PM (#5585426)
One can dream...

1. Clemson (ACC)
16. Troy (Sun Belt)

8. USC (Pac 12)
9. Penn State (at large)

5. Ohio State (Big Ten)
12. UCF (AAC)

4. Alabama (at large)
13. Boise State (MWC)

6. Wisconsin (at large)
11. Washington (at large)

3. Georgia (SEC)
14. Toledo (MAC)

7. Auburn (at large)
10. Miami, Fla. (at large)

2. Oklahoma (Big 12)
15. Florida Atlantic (C-USA)


This looks beautiful. All the conference champs get a shot and the best teams get tune-up games and this year's bubble teams (OSU, Bama) get tricky but manageable games (vs. UCF and BSU) and there's still three marquee matchups and sometimes there will be a fun upset by a team like Toledo and this is the world I want to live in.
   15. Mike Webber Posted: December 03, 2017 at 11:28 PM (#5585427)
@13 - Big 12 did have more teams than bowls - especially when they fell out of NY6 game. It makes sense that the better record would get the last slot, but with bowls and the Big 12 you never know. After all as I assumed would happen the Bluebonnet (Texas) Bowl took 6-6 Texas ahead of three 7-5 teams.

That December 26 game with a 12:30 central kickoff is rough for basically any fan base outside Texas. Heck it's a 5 hour drive from Lubbock. So basically you spend Christmas traveling if you want to go.

I agree with your playoff arguments in theory, but I think in practice giving the committee an excuse is a bad idea. But I also think OU or Texas can have one, maybe 2 losses and make the playoff. The other 8 teams are in the same boat as Wisconsin, they better be undefeated or don't worry about it.
   16. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: December 03, 2017 at 11:46 PM (#5585431)
One can dream...


Of destroying the regular season and making everything meaningless?

Auburn's already beaten Georgia, but hey, what does that matter? Let's pair them up in round 2! Heck, let's give both Georgia and Alabama multiple do-overs!
   17. Voodoo Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:02 AM (#5585435)
Auburn's already beaten Georgia, but hey, what does that matter? Let's pair them up in round 2!


It would be round three between two major programs playing a rubber match and would be very compelling theater. The "destroy the regular season" argument is bullshit, IMO. Each of the preceding Auburn-Georgia games would have been huge games with major playoff implications.
   18. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:49 AM (#5585443)
Granted, it is hard to do a bowl game over Christmas when you have to deal with Santa Claus in the household, but I've done it (post Santa phase), and it can still be a lot of fun. I know one year, before the season when my Dad said we're going bowling we ended up driving to a Nebraska v Florida State Fiesta Bowl (a drive to Tempe from Wisconsin), we didn't get a Christmas Tree that year, and I don't think we even put up any decorations. We left the 22nd and took our time seeing a lot of interesting places on the way. i also drove to the Fiesta for N v Florida. I later did a Holiday Bowl (I flew) over Christmas time, and that was a lot of fun playing golf, etc. with college friends. I don't think I could convince my own kids (girls) to do something like this, but it can be fun.
   19. Brian C Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:52 AM (#5585444)
So, um, Herm Edwards to Arizona State? Is there a coaching change this year that's more obviously bound for disaster? I mean, dude hasn't coached in any capacity for 10 years, and has no college experience to speak of. Also, he's Herm Edwards.

I guess "old guy who doesn't know the college game" worked out so well for Lovie Smith and Mike Sherman that ASU thought they'd give it a shot, too. Did Arizona State really just get rid of a decent coach in order to do this? I'm having trouble coming up with a precedent for a similarly stupid idea. Maybe Sherman depending on what you think of Franchione. Lovie wasn't replacing anyone who was missed, at least.
   20. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:08 AM (#5585450)
I don't know how old you are, but Nebraska fired Frank Solich (58-19 record) in 2002 because he wasn't Tom Osborne (who finished his 25 year career with a 60-3 mark) and brought in Bill Callahan (the Oakland Raiders former HC who was just fired). Callahan promptly led Nebraska to its first losing season in over 40 years. Callahan didn't 'get' college football, and certainly did not fit in at Nebraska. Granted there were signs that Solich wasn't keeping the program at even a high level, offensive recruiting was really suffering but his ouster by a shall remain nameless moron of an AD, and the Billy C debacle really put into the motion the present day problems for Nebraska.

ASU paid $12million (to Graham) for this privilege to hire Edwards.
   21. cmd600 Posted: December 04, 2017 at 03:23 AM (#5585454)
I don't disagree that the Committee is inclined to piss on the Big 12 every chance it gets.


They got a team in this year, when they absolutely deserved too, and didn't last year when, again, that was the deserved result. 2015 saw Oklahoma picked over a couple other one loss teams, and 2014 saw Ohio St picked over a Big 12 rep. So one for two in not so certain situations. So it's not the case that they'll only get in when they are clearly better. I'm not seeing anything unfair here. And, of course, the payoff of that additional win was intended to help them in situations like 2014, where the four teams ahead of TCU and Baylor all got an extra quality win to add to the schedule.
   22. Brian C Posted: December 04, 2017 at 03:45 AM (#5585455)
#20, oh right, Solich is an obvious precedent. I just forgot. Haha yeah, that was a doozy. But even in that example, I would argue that Callahan in 2003 was a substantially more compelling candidate than Herm Edwards in 2017. At least Callahan had, you know, actually coached in the previous 10 years.

Honestly, speaking of Nebraska, I'm not a fan but I really hope Frost can turn things around. There are good reasons to wonder if that program can reach elite status again, but that conference desperately needs a counterweight in the West to the powers in the East Division, and like everyone else I see no reason to think Wisconsin can stay at this level on a consistent basis.

And if it's ever going to happen for them, now's the time, with an ascendant young coach who demonstrably wants to be there more than anywhere else.
   23. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 04, 2017 at 07:10 AM (#5585457)
I guess you can always complain that the field isn't big enough. I disagree; I like the four field playoff and think it's a perfectly cromulent cut off point. But hey, YMMV and all that. That said, it's hard to see where they didn't take the best four teams this year. Which is what they seem to have done last year where OSU got the benefit of the doubt rather than losing it. Sure, three of the four finalists are regionally close to one another. But they're also have pretty obviously better credentials than west coast or Midwest teams. It's not a regional qualifier experiment.
   24. dlf Posted: December 04, 2017 at 07:33 AM (#5585459)
I'm an Alabama fan, but think that there is an equally good (not better, but equally good) argument for either USC or OSU as the 4th team. In the last thread, I voiced concern about the team going back several weeks and was far from shocked at the AU result. Personally I would have liked to see UCF get the 4th bid.

But someone in this or the last thread said that Alabama never schedules a non-conference opponent of note. I only looked back to 2013, but in those years, they've kicked off the season with games against FSU, West Viginia, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Southern Cal, all of which were at neutral sites and all of which are consistently top 20 clubs and often better than that. How much of the down year for Florida State, a pre-season top 5 club, was *because* Alabama mauled their QB knocking him out of the season?
   25. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:01 AM (#5585491)
Orange: Wisconsin v. Miami
Can we refer to this as the "What Might Have Been Bowl"?
   26. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:56 AM (#5585522)
It steams me that Bama made the playoffs, and it especially steams me how they did it.

1. Last week, we were told by the committee that "there is very little separation between #5 and #8". That implied that (a) at that time, #5 Bama and #8 tOSU were close, while (b)there was separation between #4 Wisconsin and #5 Bama. tOSU then beat Wisconsin while Bama sat at home. The committee then puts Bama in Wisconsin's #4 spot because of the "superior body of work". As they say on Law & Order, were they lying then or are they lying now?

2. As noted, they implied there was separation between Wisconsin and Bama. Wisconsin had the ball with a chance to win in the final minute of the game. Are we now to believe that that interception negated the entirety of a season's worth of separation?

I only looked back to 2013, but in those years, they've kicked off the season with games against FSU, West Viginia, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Southern Cal, all of which were at neutral sites and all of which are consistently top 20 clubs and often better than that.
Bama didn't schedule any of those games; they were "kickoff classics" arranged by the organizers. They also open with Louisville at another such game next season.

For example, tOSU has at least one P5 opponent scheduled each year thru 2027; next year they have Oregon State and TCU and in '22-23 they have both Texas and ND. Bama, on the other hand, has just Louisville next season, perennial powerhouse Duke in '19, and Miami in '21 as P5 games on their schedule.
   27. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:07 AM (#5585529)
They got a team in this year, when they absolutely deserved too, and didn't last year when, again, that was the deserved result. 2015 saw Oklahoma picked over a couple other one loss teams, and 2014 saw Ohio St picked over a Big 12 rep. So one for two in not so certain situations. So it's not the case that they'll only get in when they are clearly better. I'm not seeing anything unfair here. And, of course, the payoff of that additional win was intended to help them in situations like 2014, where the four teams ahead of TCU and Baylor all got an extra quality win to add to the schedule.

Well, subjectively, I'd argue the Big 12 teams have been underrated all season long but I suppose that's not particularly relevant or compelling.

A more objective data point is the fact that the Committee was slow to put OU in the top 4 even when their resume demanded it and the Committee's constant harping about OU's defense. It was pretty clear the Big 12 aesthetic was being held against OU until OU's argument became so overwhelming that the Committee's hand was forced.

I expect, given the messaging we have generally seen over the last few years from the Committee on the conference, that any time we see a judgment call pick between the Big 12 and another candidate, the Big 12 will come up short.

But someone in this or the last thread said that Alabama never schedules a non-conference opponent of note. I only looked back to 2013, but in those years, they've kicked off the season with games against FSU, West Viginia, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Southern Cal, all of which were at neutral sites and all of which are consistently top 20 clubs and often better than that.

Sigh. WVU gave them the best game out of any of those programs. What could have been if the a couple of guys had just made a couple more catches...
   28. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:11 AM (#5585531)
Bama didn't schedule any of those games; they were "kickoff classics" arranged by the organizers.

What the hell's that even mean? Both teams know the prospective opponent for months before any agreement is made and are involved in negotiating all the particulars. They're not agreeing to a date and location then letting a chicken restaurant pick the opponent.
   29. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:21 AM (#5585540)
But someone in this or the last thread said that Alabama never schedules a non-conference opponent of note.

They refuse to play a OOC road game of note. They did pull a fast one and play at PSU when they were crippled by sanctions, but otherwise only play "neutral" site games pretty much within the SEC footprint.
   30. Charles S. is a big fan of Outerbridge Horsey Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5585554)
Cats vs. Cats in Nashville. Never been to the Music City Bowl, and Nashville's a fun town. Better to be playing them in football than basketball. Hail to Purple.
   31. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:54 AM (#5585594)
That timeline for the Bama v PSU series is not accurate. The sanctions came down in summer 2012. The series was played in 2010 and 2011 (at PSU). Paterno's last game as coach was later that November. I don't dispute the Bama OOC scheduling formula.
   32. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5585597)
What the hell's that even mean?
It means that Bama isn't going out and looking for quality opponents; they're scheduling Mercer and Georgia State.
   33. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5585618)
As opposed to whom?
   34. dlf Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:14 AM (#5585623)
Carving out an annual game played against teams that are ranked in the preseason top 20 - and often ranked very highly within that - because they are part of kickoff classics is among the more stupid arguments I've read here outside of the OTP threads.
   35. esseff Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:28 AM (#5585643)
Cats vs. Cats in Nashville. Never been to the Music City Bowl, and Nashville's a fun town. Better to be playing them in football than basketball. Hail to Purple.


Seems like a bit of a dis for a team with seven straight wins in a Power 5 conference, plus a top-20 AP ranking. I was thinking vs. Stanford in the Holiday Bowl (and maybe in the GE College Bowl, too). But I'm admittedly unclear on what the bowl tiers are.
   36. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:49 AM (#5585678)
Carving out an annual game played against teams that are ranked in the preseason top 20 - and often ranked very highly within that - because they are part of kickoff classics is among the more stupid arguments I've read here
You must have missed #26:
For example, tOSU has at least one P5 opponent scheduled each year thru 2027; next year they have Oregon State^
Early line on that game is 50 :)

^Yes, yes, I know *technically* OSU is in the Pac12. But their only win was a squeaker over FCS Portland State, and they got blown out by Colorado...STATE.

------------

It's always fun to be hard on the Beavers, but point taken - 'Bama's scheduling sucks, and TCU more than makes up for OSU West. Next year the Tide trades Mercer for The Citadel in week 12, and risks their hides against Louisiana-Lafayette and Arkansas State. The only tough road game will be LSU. Book Alabama for next year's playoff already... Why don't the SEC have nine conference games like everybody else? (Of course, adding Vanderbilt to their schedule wouldn't exactly enhance it. The SEC actually kind of sucks after the top tier.)
   37. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5585686)
In other news, the aforementioned Chicken Kickoff Classic actually features Washington vs. Auburn next fall, and if the Huskies can get by that game, their schedule sets up favorably for another playoff run - notably, no trips to the Arizona desert in 2018.

It's also quite a large IF doing some work, there.
   38. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:09 PM (#5585704)
Why don't the SEC have nine conference games like everybody else?

The ACC also doesn't, and it's driven by a desire for seven home games. In years you've got five conference road games, you need your three non-conference games to be at home, which forecloses the possibility of the kickoff games and makes it hard to work out the cross-conference rivalries in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Kentucky.
   39. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:27 PM (#5585726)
Seems like a bit of a dis for a team with seven straight wins in a Power 5 conference, plus a top-20 AP ranking. I was thinking vs. Stanford in the Holiday Bowl (and maybe in the GE College Bowl, too). But I'm admittedly unclear on what the bowl tiers are.

With the Citrus being ceded to the ACC this year, Music City/Gator had the third choice (each gets the Big Ten and ACC three times over six years) behind the Hall of Fame and Holiday. So depends on whether you take "not as desirable as Michigan and Michigan State" as an insult.
   40. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5585729)
and it's driven by a desire for seven home games. In years you've got five conference road games,
...suck it up and play a real team. (Note: Directed at the greedy schools, not the messenger :))

It's hard to believe that the revenue from pounding LA-Lafayette, as a percentage of overall revenue, is that big a deal, but maybe I'm naive. And I realize they probably don't need the recruiting boost or whatever from scheduling an Oklahoma or Notre Dame. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I get it... it's just another item on the unseemly side of the ledger. Touting "body of work" over teams like Mercer is a joke.

Seriously, booking Penn State-caliber home and aways should be the norm, not the once-in-a-generation exception.
   41. cmd600 Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:42 PM (#5585736)
A more objective data point is the fact that the Committee was slow to put OU in the top 4 even when their resume demanded it


I'm not seeing anything awfully objective about this. The first week, they put a 7-1 Oklahoma smack dab in the middle of ND, Clemson, Ohio St, and Penn St. S&P+ had them 13th overall, and last among those five teams, FPI had them eighth overall again last among the specified group, ESPN's SoS rating had them third of the five. The AP had them eighth, the Coaches' Poll ninth, both again last among our group of five.

The committee was initially more generous to Oklahoma than the human polls and computer rankings, and once a loss opened a spot for them, they were never really in danger of falling out without a loss. They stayed ahead of an undefeated Wisconsin, a one-loss Georgia, and a one-loss Alabama.
   42. cmd600 Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:47 PM (#5585738)
suck it up and play a real team.


The ACC has a scheduled five games against ND every year. The top teams that didn't these last two years - Florida St played Alabama and Ole Miss, Clemson played Auburn home and home, and V Tech played West Virginia and Tennessee. I would prefer to see nine games as well, and still these tougher OOC games, but these don't seem like they're dodging anyone.
   43. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:48 PM (#5585739)
Guessing, the home dates are about $9mil or so in revenue for the 'helmet schools'. It is fun to go back and look at old OOC schedules from the 80s compared to now.

   44. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 01:04 PM (#5585754)
The ACC has a scheduled five games against ND every year. The top teams that didn't these last two years - Florida St played Alabama and Ole Miss, Clemson played Auburn home and home, and V Tech played West Virginia and Tennessee. I would prefer to see nine games as well, and still these tougher OOC games, but these don't seem like they're dodging anyone.
I'd agree, and never intended to complain about the ACC. Clemson has played home-and-aways against Auburn and Georgia in the last several years, and they always play South Carolina. I got not problems with the occasional Appalachian State, I just don't like it when you see three of them, at home, every year, (cough*BAMA*cough) and then tout "body of work".

I hope Clemson 31-0 becomes an annual tradition. I would laugh and laugh.
   45. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5585758)
Nebraska 1981 OOC, at Iowa, vs Florida State, vs Penn State vs Auburn (consecutive weeks)
1982 vs Iowa, vs NMSU(sucked), at Penn St. at Auburn (consecutive weeks)
1986 OOC, vs Florida St, at Illinois, vs Oregon (sucked), at South Carolina (Ellis/Sterling Sharpe era)

Of more recent vintage, you would see one Power 5, a sun-belt/mac team, and some other low level team.

Bama during similar era, vs GT, h/a with Penn State, So. Miss, BC, Memphis, tOSU (neutral), ND.
I notice, Bama has almost always had the lower level OOC game immediately preceding the Iron Bowl.
I recognize, the SEC has routinely began conference games right out of the gate, or at least within first two weeks, something the B1G has rarely done.
   46. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: December 04, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5585763)
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I get it... it's just another item on the unseemly side of the ledger.

I read some comments from members of the playoff selection committee and found them . . . a bit unsettling. In their own words they sound like glorified bookmakers. They view their objective as identifying the teams who'll perform the best a month from now, not the most deserving teams. They'll consider factors as to who is most deserving, but only if the teams are roughly comparable in terms of who's best, i.e. if the line on a hypothetical match up between them would be within a couple points. So why not put Vegas's top bookmakers on the committee? Because that would look bad?
   47. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 04, 2017 at 01:24 PM (#5585772)
The ACC schedules Notre Dame because ND is an ACC school in all non-football sports.
   48. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 01:34 PM (#5585779)
Bama during similar era, vs GT, h/a with Penn State, So. Miss, BC, Memphis, tOSU (neutral), ND.
I seem to remember Alabama playing Penn State a lot in the 80s. At some point they became giant puss!es who refuse to play an OOC road game^. I'd have a lot more respect for them going 4-6 against a succession of Michigan States, USCs, and Oklahomas over being 10-0 against Mercer and Louisiana Tech. But then I'm not on any committee, so what the heck do I know.

^Seriously. Between the kickoff classics and bowl games, they *never* play OOC road games. Ever. Puss!es.
   49. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 01:42 PM (#5585786)
If memory serves, aside from the Penn State series, the last home/away series I remember Bama having was with OU in the early 00s, and then with UCLA in the late 90s.
   50. wjones Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5585803)
Bama during similar era, vs GT, h/a with Penn State, So. Miss, BC, Memphis, tOSU (neutral), ND.
I seem to remember Alabama playing Penn State a lot in the 80s. At some point they became giant puss!es who refuse to play an OOC road game^. I'd have a lot more respect for them going 4-6 against a succession of Michigan States, USCs, and Oklahomas over being 10-0 against Mercer and Louisiana Tech. But then I'm not on any committee, so what the heck do I know.

^Seriously. Between the kickoff classics and bowl games, they *never* play OOC road games. Ever. Puss!es.


Not to single you out, but the Tide hate is a bit amusing.

1. Lower level teams approach the big schools, not the other way around. It's a huge payday and program builder for those schools. It basically how Miami built its program. They scheduled....and got pounded by....the likes of Alabama and Notre Dame every year, collecting big paychecks and in relatively short time became a top program.

2. Saban has gone on record as saying the Power 5 should only play Power 5 schools, to more effectively compare teams and conferences. But he's smart enough not to be the only one who does it. If you want to whine about Mercer, go look up their schedule. And other similar programs.

3. Correct me if I am wrong, but Mercer is the only OOC team Alabama played that isn't playing in a bowl game this year.

4. I was surprised that the committee picked Alabama over Ohio State, even with OSU's 2 loss record, because the OSU AD was on the committee, ESPN was lobbying for Ohio State for the ratings, and twice OSU has been picked when it didn't have to be. I applaud the committee not taking the easy, more politically correct route.
   51. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5585804)
If memory serves, aside from the Penn State series, the last home/away series I remember Bama having was with OU in the early 00s, and then with UCLA in the late 90s.
Looking it up, you're correct. They went 0-4 and have played exactly one road OOC game since, the aforementioned PSU in 2011. Which, obviously, has worked for them, so they are unlikely to stop being puss!es any time soon.

"OK, we'll only play quality opponents outside of our conference if it's on a neutral field and with at least a month to prepare. Oh, and we want an FCS team before every Iron Bowl. And peel us some grapes, dammit!"

ETA: Not entirely sure why I have a bug up my butt about 'Bama today, I've never really given it that much thought. I think it was the "body of work" crack. That, and I'm tired of having the SEC pushed down my throat all the time, when the #6 or #7 SEC team would have their fannies paddled by the corresponding B1G or P12 team...

Also, as stated previously, I'm fine with an A-B-C type OOC schedule, go ahead and play a patsy every year. But to *never* play a quality team, and *never* play on the road, is pushing it.
   52. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5585810)
I was surprised that the committee picked Alabama over Ohio State, even with OSU's 2 loss record, because the OSU AD was on the committee, E

he had to recuse himself from the discussions, along with Clemson's AD
   53. wjones Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:25 PM (#5585830)
he had to recuse himself from the discussions, along with Clemson's AD

Understood, though Clemson's AD didn't really have to leave the room. Just pointing out that it is easier to pick a team from the guy in the room. Especially when the network wanted the same team. Maybe the AD in the room worked against them, if they wanted to show impartiality. It also may have hurt OSU because this was the third time in 4 years they were in the running against others, and the first two times they were picked. The first time was Year 1, when they took it over the Big 12 teams; they rewarded the committee by winning it all. Then last year, when they were chosen over Penn State, who won OSU's division (albeit with more losses). OSU rewarded the committee last year by getting blown out. Maybe that had nothing to do with it.
   54. wjones Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5585834)
ETA: Not entirely sure why I have a bug up my butt about 'Bama today, I've never really given it that much thought. I think it was the "body of work" crack. That, and I'm tired of having the SEC pushed down my throat all the time, when the #6 or #7 SEC team would have their fannies paddled by the corresponding B1G or P12 team...

Maybe so. But 9 SEC teams are in bowls, and I figure the 6 and 7 teams are South Carolina and Missouri; not titans but pretty decent teams, and South Carolina did spend some time in the Top 25. Not sure how that compares to Big 10 and Pac 12.
   55. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:36 PM (#5585843)
1. Lower level teams approach the big schools, not the other way around. It's a huge payday and program builder for those schools. It basically how Miami built its program. They scheduled....and got pounded by....the likes of Alabama and Notre Dame every year, collecting big paychecks and in relatively short time became a top program.
Are you sure about this? Except for the '70's, Miami has consistently had a good program since 1950. Also, they were independent until '91, so they weren't really comparable to the Gang of 5 schools in scheduling.
3. Correct me if I am wrong, but Mercer is the only OOC team Alabama played that isn't playing in a bowl game this year.
That's not that tough, especially in the era of "everyone with 6 FBS wins gets a bowl game". tOSU, for instance, can say the same thing each of the past 4 seasons (only one OOC opponent not making a bowl game).

   56. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:38 PM (#5585845)
2. Saban has gone on record as saying the Power 5 should only play Power 5 schools, to more effectively compare teams and conferences. But he's smart enough not to be the only one who does it. If you want to whine about Mercer, go look up their schedule. And other similar programs.
The Big 10 now has a rule against scheduling FCS teams.
   57. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5585850)
But 9 SEC teams are in bowls, and I figure the 6 and 7 teams are South Carolina and Missouri
I guess we'll find out with bowls like Music City and Outback. No SEC/P12 matches this time around.

UW played 'Bama reasonably competitively in the semi last year, but came up short. What's hard to measure is how, say, Missouri would fare in the P12 every year. There's usually one or maybe two really bad teams in the P12 - this time it's Oregon State; everyone else is a threat to give you a good matchup.

Kentucky (chosen at random) is a bowl team because they non-conned three directional schools. Oregon (also chosen at random) played one, and added Nebraska and @Wyoming. At least it's an effort. I'd lay the lumber on Oregon over Kentucky.
   58. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5585851)
ESPN was lobbying for Ohio State for the ratings

Curious to hear what this is based on. Is it a common perception? I know a few Ohio St alums are ESPN commentators, but whenever I watched their coverage I didn't get this impression.
   59. cmd600 Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:50 PM (#5585856)
The ACC schedules Notre Dame because ND is an ACC school in all non-football sports.


Notre Dame is an ACC school in non-football sports because Notre Dame schedules ACC teams. Notre Dame may need a conference for their non-football sports teams, but don't get the order of priorities backwards.
   60. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 04, 2017 at 03:05 PM (#5585872)
Lower level teams approach the big schools, not the other way around.

Somehow, they all happen to play SEC teams the penultimate week of the season. Weird that the SEC allows lower level schools to control their scheduling.

Saban has gone on record as saying the Power 5 should only play Power 5 schools

Saban says a lot of bullshit in press conferences. Actions speak louder than words.

The Big 10 now has a rule against scheduling FCS teams.

That rule was rolled back.

B1G fans are convinced ESPN lobbies for SEC. SEC fans are convinced ESPN lobbies for B1G.

   61. dlf Posted: December 04, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5585914)
B1G fans are convinced ESPN lobbies for SEC. SEC fans are convinced ESPN lobbies for B1G.


I'm a fan of an SEC team. I'm convinced that ESPN lobbies for ratings. They were thrilled to have Wisconsin lose because it got rid of a team with no national following AND regardless of whether USC, OSU or UA was chosen, allowed the talking heads to rant for weeks. If South Carolina or Mizzu or Ol Miss were on the borderline, ESPN would cheer for Southern Cal or Ohio State and conversely, if it was Rutgers or Iowa or Minnesota, ESPN would been waving the SEC flag. Thinking otherwise if just homerism.
   62. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 03:46 PM (#5585935)
The Big 10 now has a rule against scheduling FCS teams
That's just because they were afraid of Appalachian State (ba-dum-bum). Once they moved up, the rule became moot...
   63. Sleepless in Munich Posted: December 04, 2017 at 03:58 PM (#5585945)
1. Lower level teams approach the big schools, not the other way around. It's a huge payday and program builder for those schools. It basically how Miami built its program. They scheduled....and got pounded by....the likes of Alabama and Notre Dame every year, collecting big paychecks and in relatively short time became a top program.

You make it sound like nobody wants to play Alabama and they have to take any offers they get. But the reverse is true - Alabama could schedule home-and-homes with literally any OOC FBS team.
Additionally, Alabama does not schedule teams for home games that are actually building something, because those are too good, but teams that need every cent to just keep their program running.

2. Saban has gone on record as saying the Power 5 should only play Power 5 schools, to more effectively compare teams and conferences. But he's smart enough not to be the only one who does it. If you want to whine about Mercer, go look up their schedule. And other similar programs.

It's true that other top programs play Mercer, too, but Alabama schedules even softer than other programs, both with opponents and location. The SEC plays only eight conference games, the ACC plays eight plus five teams have to play ND, the other P5 conferences have nine conference games. For OOC, tOSU, Michigan, Oklahoma etc. regularly schedule home-and-homes with other top programs, Alabama never plays any OOC opponent on the road. Alabama always plays 7 home games, 4 away games and 1 neutral site game, e.g. ND always plays 6-5-1; tOSU & Michigan play 7-5-0, 6-5-1 or 6-6-0 schedules.
   64. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5585993)
For grins and giggles, here's some home AND AWAYS scheduled for all P12 schools:

Arizona - Houston, Texas Tech, BYU, Mississippi St, Kansas St, Nebraska, Ga Tech
ASU - BYU, Michigan St, Oklahoma St, LSU
USC - Notre Dame, Texas, BYU
UCLA - Texas AM, Cincinnati, Oklahoma, Michigan, LSU, UGA, Wisconsin
Cal - BYU, Ole Miss, TCU, Auburn
Stanford - ND, Kansas St, NW, TCU, BC
Colorado - Nebraska, Texas AM, TCU, Nebraska, Ga Tech, NW, Kansas St
Utah - BYU, Baylor
Oregon - Ohio St, Texas Tech, Baylor, Nebraska
Oregon St - Ohio St, Minnesota, Oklahoma State, Boise St
Wash - BYU, Michigan, Ohio State
WSU - Houston, BYU, Wisconsin, Boise St, Kansas St

Here's some SEC teams:
UGA - GA Tech, UCLA, ND
LSU - Texas, UCLA, Oklahoma, Arizona St
Auburn - Penn St, Cal
Mizzou - Purdue, WV, BC, Kansas St, Illinois
Alabama - None.

I stand by the puss!es label. None. Zero.

Screw you, Tide. They'll play their one neutral game, afraid to travel to Columbus or Norman or Happy Valley or Blacksburg or Los Angeles or even Eugene; hide in Tuscaloosa to face the big bad Bulldogs of The Citadel, and then claim "body of work".
   65. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: December 04, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5585994)
this post aged well:
likely outcomes for alabama:
beat auburn, beat georgia -> make the playoff
beat auburn, lose to georgia -> make the playoff
lose to auburn, auburn wins SEC -> make the playoff
lose to auburn, georgia wins SEC -> make the playoff

unlikely outcomes for alabama:
left out of the playoff under any circumstance
   66. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 04, 2017 at 05:06 PM (#5586002)
I do t see OSU on that home and away list.
   67. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 04, 2017 at 05:08 PM (#5586003)
The point about ND is that regardless of how much their fans think their shot doesn’t stink re football, they play a lot of ACC teams because that’s their conference.
   68. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: December 04, 2017 at 05:18 PM (#5586010)
I do t see OSU on that home and away list.
Here you go: Oregon, Texas, ND, Washington, BC.

EDIT: They also play TCU at "neutral site" Jerry World next year (according to Mapquest, it's a 25 minute drive from TCU to AT&T Stadium).
   69. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 05:18 PM (#5586011)
Which OSU? The Beavs are on there. Ohio State plays Oregon, Oregon State, and Washington in the next few years. Oklahoma State even shows up, playing the Beavers and Sun Devils.

tOSU: Oklahoma, Oregon State, Oregon, Texas, ND, Washington, BC
Nebraska: Oregon, Colorado, Oklahoma, Cincinnati, Tennessee, Arizona
Sparty: ND, Arizona St, Miami, Boise State, BC

Anyway, this isn't about any version of OSU, it's about 'Bama being cowards. Which, apparently, works when you win them all. But don't give me Saban some "oh, yeah, in a perfect world all Power 5". He could if he wanted to; he doesn't want to, and is being rewarded for it.
   70. PepTech Posted: December 04, 2017 at 06:06 PM (#5586063)
Pick any random P5 team:

Texas: USC, LSU, Ohio State, Michigan
Maryland: West Virginia, Virginia, Virginia Tech (OK, not geographically diverse, but still :))
Pitt: Oklahoma State, Tennessee, West Virginia, Notre Dame
Ole Miss: Cal, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest (granted, second tier. But it's something)
Purdue: Missouri, Notre Dame, Boston College, Virginia Tech, TCU, Wake Forest
Kansas: Rutgers, Boston College, Duke, Houston, Illinois

Alabama: None.

OK, made my point :). Back to your regularly scheduled thread; we're only 12 days away from the Raycom Media Camellia Bowl!!!



   71. SoSH U at work Posted: December 04, 2017 at 06:42 PM (#5586086)
I figure the 6 and 7 teams are South Carolina and Missouri; not titans but pretty decent teams, and South Carolina did spend some time in the Top 25. Not sure how that compares to Big 10 and Pac 12.


Conveniently, SEC No. 7 Mizzou played Big Ten No. 7 Purdue. The Boilers won 35-3.
   72. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 04, 2017 at 06:43 PM (#5586087)
I'm not seeing anything awfully objective about this.

To each their own I guess, I don't think it's much of a stretch. OU had and has the best OOC win in the country and was the favorite to win their conference all year long. A team from any other conference in the country with a dominating OOC win @ O$U, especially one with OU's preseason hype and program history, would have been in the top four from week one of the playoff rankings. Instead, OU had to wait for other teams to fall out of the race before getting a top 4 placement and then got slotted behind a two loss team in the penultimate week. And the Committee justified this because of OU's defense, basically diminishing its record because the Committee didn't approve of how OU won games.

S&P+ had them 13th overall, and last among those five teams, FPI had them eighth overall again last among the specified group, ESPN's SoS rating had them third of the five.

Bill Connelly himself has said S&P+ is not a good metric for picking playoff teams.
   73. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:17 PM (#5586112)
And the FSU game doesn’t count because it’s neutral site kickoff classic?
   74. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:22 PM (#5586113)
we're only 12 days away from the Raycom Media Camellia Bowl!!!


Which I'm actually toying with attending. As I noted at the end of the November thread, it's played about 2 miles from my house, & I work online with a vice president of MTSU, where a good friend of mine graduated. And of course Arkansas State, while not a team I ever followed (it's Razorbacks all the way for the vast majority of the populace, though admittedly ASU could probably have beat the UA pretty handily the last couple of years), is from the only state I give a damn about.

I've been to only a handful of college games in my life -- several at my minuscule alma mater, one at Arizona State (when we beat John Elway's Stanford team with a very Elway-esque last-minute drive, engineered by our backup QB at that), & 3 games at Auburn, against Ball State, Tulane & the Razorbacks, back in '06.
   75. cmd600 Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:24 PM (#5586130)
I don't think it's much of a stretch


If the argument is that it wouldn't have been a stretch to put Oklahoma in the top four after week 10 or 11, then sure, I can be on board with that. I wouldn't have griped with any order of three through seven. But that's a heck of a ways away from saying their resume "demanded" it.

OU had and has the best OOC win in the country


They certainly had the finest top 1/8th of a resume of any team at that point. What about the other 7/8ths?

would have been in the top four from week one of the playoff rankings


This is all conjecture. Meanwhile they were placed ... fifth. Maligned indeed.

then got slotted behind a two loss team in the penultimate week.


Same as every other one loss team except Clemson, and including an undefeated Wisconsin. Maybe that wasn't fair. I don't see how the committee was sticking it to Oklahoma specifically though.


And the Committee justified this because of OU's defense


Oklahoma finished eighth in S&P+, last among the one-loss teams, because of their 95th rated defense. Sounds like the committee nailed their defensive performance to a T.



Bill Connelly himself has said S&P+ is not a good metric for picking playoff teams.


This intentionally misses the point, which I stated - The committee was initially more generous to Oklahoma than the human polls and computer rankings.
   76. RMc's Unenviable Situation Posted: December 05, 2017 at 08:14 AM (#5586204)
Well...I hadn't used it in a while, but here's what my headache-inducing College Football Playoff system produced this year:

Conference champions ranked in the CFP Top 15 qualify automatically; conference champs outside the Top 15 have to win a play-in game to get to the "real" tournament. (The numbers are seeds, not rankings.)
The first two rounds are played at campus sites; conference champs get priority over wild-card teams, regardless of CFP ranking.

FIRST ROUND
18 Troy (Sun Belt) @ 15 Boise State (Mt West)
17 Florida Atlantic (C-USA) @ 16 Toledo (MAC)

SECOND ROUND
Qualifier A @ 1 Clemson (ACC)
Qualifier B @ 2 Oklahoma (Big XII)
14 Stanford @ 3 Georgia (SEC)
13 Washington @ 4 Ohio State (Big Ten)
12 Miami @ 5 USC (Pac 12)
11 Penn State @ 6 UCF (American)
10 Auburn @ 7 Notre Dame*
9 Wisconsin @ 8 Alabama

*Notre Dame (and, theoretically, any independent team) qualifies automatically if they finish in the CFP Top 15, and can receive a wild-card slot if they finish in the Top 25.

Quarterfinals and semifinals at neutral sites; National Championship in Pasadena on January 1 (always).

   77. dlf Posted: December 05, 2017 at 10:29 AM (#5586290)
we're only 12 days away from the Raycom Media Camellia Bowl!!!


Which I'm actually toying with attending. As I noted at the end of the November thread, it's played about 2 miles from my house


The Crampton Bowl is a throwback to a much earlier era of stadiums. It is approaching its 100th birthday with only minor renovation / remodeling since WWII.
   78. wjones Posted: December 05, 2017 at 10:43 AM (#5586317)
Arizona - Houston, Texas Tech, BYU, Mississippi St, Kansas St, Nebraska, Ga Tech
ASU - BYU, Michigan St, Oklahoma St, LSU
USC - Notre Dame, Texas, BYU
UCLA - Texas AM, Cincinnati, Oklahoma, Michigan, LSU, UGA, Wisconsin
Cal - BYU, Ole Miss, TCU, Auburn
Stanford - ND, Kansas St, NW, TCU, BC
Colorado - Nebraska, Texas AM, TCU, Nebraska, Ga Tech, NW, Kansas St
Utah - BYU, Baylor
Oregon - Ohio St, Texas Tech, Baylor, Nebraska
Oregon St - Ohio St, Minnesota, Oklahoma State, Boise St
Wash - BYU, Michigan, Ohio State
WSU - Houston, BYU, Wisconsin, Boise St, Kansas St

Here's some SEC teams:
UGA - GA Tech, UCLA, ND
LSU - Texas, UCLA, Oklahoma, Arizona St
Auburn - Penn St, Cal
Mizzou - Purdue, WV, BC, Kansas St, Illinois
Alabama - None.


Just so I am clear, why are we giving credit to teams playing Boise State, while not giving credit to Alabama for playing Fresno State or Colorado State? Now for the record, I'd like to see the SEC add a conference game; ideally move Missouri to the West (if they actually have to be in the SEC) and Auburn to the East. Alabama gets to play 6 games against the West and still retain traditional rivals Tennessee and Auburn plus another East team, and it would be a shorter rotation (IOW, play Georgia once every 4 years instead of once every 6). It's been a few years ago, but before another game was added to the schedule, Alabama and Auburn always had a bye week prior to the Iron Bowl. Now they just schedule the FCS game. Now their bye week is usually between Tennessee and LSU, which until recently made a lot of sense.


I stand by the puss!es label. None. Zero.

Screw you, Tide. They'll play their one neutral game, afraid to travel to Columbus or Norman or Happy Valley or Blacksburg or Los Angeles or even Eugene; hide in Tuscaloosa to face the big bad Bulldogs of The Citadel, and then claim "body of work".


I'd advise you avoiding the state of Alabama until you get some therapy about that Nick/Tide hate. I see a lot of bad conference teams on some schedules up there, and I doubt you would be singing Alabama's praises if they dropped Mercer, Fresno State and Colorado State, and picked up Rutgers, Duke and Baylor. Since it's been 50 years since Furman Bisher fueled the war between Bobby Dodd and Bear Bryant, maybe they can schedule Georgia Tech again. Especially since all 3 are dead.

I don't know why Alabama hasn't scheduled more Power 5's any more than you do. It's obvious I will defend them and it's also obvious you won't, regardless.
   79. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 05, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5586346)
If the argument is that it wouldn't have been a stretch to put Oklahoma in the top four after week 10 or 11, then sure, I can be on board with that. I wouldn't have griped with any order of three through seven. But that's a heck of a ways away from saying their resume "demanded" it.

That's not what I meant. I think it's not much of a stretch to assert that the Committee consistently slighted OU because of the brand of football they play.

They certainly had the finest top 1/8th of a resume of any team at that point. What about the other 7/8ths?

It was just as good enough.

Same as every other one loss team except Clemson, and including an undefeated Wisconsin. Maybe that wasn't fair. I don't see how the committee was sticking it to Oklahoma specifically though.

Because OU's record, as the Committee generally evaluates it, was clearly superior to everyone else's.

Oklahoma finished eighth in S&P+, last among the one-loss teams, because of their 95th rated defense. Sounds like the committee nailed their defensive performance to a T.

12-1 with a road win over the #5 team in the nation. It doesn't matter how you do it, getting convincing wins over other good teams and avoiding more than one stumble is the name of the game. I didn't hear them constantly harping on the other contenders' inability to field a modern passing game. It's not like OU had worse point differentials than the other contenders.

Since you like S&P+ so much, OU's lowest win expectancy in any game this year was 62%. Clemson's was 47. Bama's was 5%. UGA's was 1%.

This intentionally misses the point, which I stated - The committee was initially more generous to Oklahoma than the human polls and computer rankings.

No, you're intentionally missing my point! Or something...

The polls and the computer rankings evaluate different things than the playoff committee. I think it's pretty clear the Committee systematically underrated Big 12 teams, including OU, because they don't like the style of play. They even acknowledged as much in their public comments. You obviously don't agree.
   80. PepTech Posted: December 05, 2017 at 12:09 PM (#5586430)
Just so I am clear, why are we giving credit to teams playing Boise State, while not giving credit to Alabama for playing Fresno State or Colorado State?
All the games listed for all the other schools are for HOME and AWAY series. If Alabama would like to travel to Fresno or Fort Collins I would be happy to amend the list. They won't.

Other SEC schools manage to do this. As for "hate", believe it or not, I actually think Alabama deserves to be in over tOSU this year - I watched the Iowa game. That being said, their scheduling should be the source of embarrassment to a fan of college football as a whole, and Saban's hypocrisy in claiming "body of work" while should be ridiculed.

Feel free to embrace it, and claim "well, it works, doesn't it," and count the rings. But at least admit it's pathetic. EVERY OTHER SCHOOL at least tries.
   81. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 05, 2017 at 12:26 PM (#5586444)
All the games listed for all the other schools are for HOME and AWAY series.


So, your problem with Alabama isn't their strength of schedule, so much that they don't do this home and away scheduling thing that other teams do. This seems...tailored. I mean, I get that it's harder to win on the road, but I don't think Alabama would have a real hard time cratering Fresno State in Fresno. And this too-fine-of-a-point complaint seems to discredit the times Alabama plays nationally ranked teams in kickoff classic type games. Because they're not "home and away" series they fall out of your line of sight. But playing FSU (when they had a quarterback and were nationally ranked) is actually more impressive than playing, I don't know, a home and home series again Illinois.
   82. PepTech Posted: December 05, 2017 at 12:33 PM (#5586449)
I see a lot of bad conference teams on some schedules up there, and I doubt you would be singing Alabama's praises if they dropped Mercer, Fresno State and Colorado State, and picked up Rutgers, Duke and Baylor.
Kansas should be playing Dukes and Baylors. Alabama should be seeking out the Oklahomas or Penn States, if they truly want "body of work" to come into consideration. But sure, if they'll travel to Macon and play Mercer there I'll consider that a baby step.
I don't know why Alabama hasn't scheduled more Power 5's any more than you do.
Actually, it's pretty obvious. Greed, and fear of losing. What's mystifying is why there isn't more pushback against the only team that gets away with it.
   83. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 05, 2017 at 12:35 PM (#5586450)
maybe they can schedule Georgia Tech again


As one of 12 people who watched more than half of GT's games this year, this would have actually lowered their strength of schedule. Tech was terrible this year.
   84. wjones Posted: December 05, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5586456)
So, your problem with Alabama isn't their strength of schedule, so much that they don't do this home and away scheduling thing that other teams do. This seems...tailored. I mean, I get that it's harder to win on the road, but I don't think Alabama would have a real hard time cratering Fresno State in Fresno. And this too-fine-of-a-point complaint seems to discredit the times Alabama plays nationally ranked teams in kickoff classic type games. Because they're not "home and away" series they fall out of your line of sight. But playing FSU (when they had a quarterback and were nationally ranked) is actually more impressive than playing, I don't know, a home and home series again Illinois.


This. Also, FCS teams, and others, get more money in Tuscaloosa than they would playing at home.
   85. PepTech Posted: December 05, 2017 at 12:44 PM (#5586461)
And this too-fine-of-a-point complaint seems to discredit the times Alabama plays nationally ranked teams in kickoff classic type games. Because they're not "home and away" series they fall out of your line of sight. But playing FSU (when they had a quarterback and were nationally ranked) is actually more impressive than playing, I don't know, a home and home series again Illinois.
They do (and should) get credit for lining up for the Kickoff Games. But part of the college experience, if we're even going to pretend these are student-athletes, should be to experience new things and to learn life lessons.

For a good percentage of these kids, this is a pinnacle. It sounds kind of dramatic, but giving a 19- or 20-year old a chance to go to Seattle or Los Angeles is a big deal; road trips to Nashville or Baton Rouge aren't quite as, ah, diverse. That, and it's probably a good idea from a football perspective to expose them to some additional hostile environments. Yes, they get that at Ole Miss, but it's not like Ann Arbor or Lincoln. Plus, it's just the right thing to do - your team comes here, my team goes there, we both benefit, even if it means a few less dollars and maybe a loss every so often. Builds character, and they're usually in September so it's easy to come back.

It's just one game a year; keep your cupcake tuneup to the Iron Bowl if you must. But three, *every season*, is sad. I remember epic events BITD when Bear Bryant would take his teams to USC or Notre Dame.
   86. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 05, 2017 at 01:31 PM (#5586497)
For a good percentage of these kids, this is a pinnacle. It sounds kind of dramatic, but giving a 19- or 20-year old a chance to go to Seattle or Los Angeles is a big deal; road trips to Nashville or Baton Rouge aren't quite as, ah, diverse. That, and it's probably a good idea from a football perspective to expose them to some additional hostile environments. Yes, they get that at Ole Miss, but it's not like Ann Arbor or Lincoln. Plus, it's just the right thing to do - your team comes here, my team goes there, we both benefit, even if it means a few less dollars and maybe a loss every so often. Builds character, and they're usually in September so it's easy to come back.


Without going into depth on any single line of query you mention here, I'll simply not that none of them are actually about strength of schedule. Doing a home and home against USC so those poor Bama players can see SoCal once in their lives isn't the argument you've been applying above, which (to my reading) is that Alabama's strength of schedule is soft and should be discredited because they don't do official "home and away" dates with other out of conference Power 5 programs.
   87. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 05, 2017 at 01:33 PM (#5586501)
This. Also, FCS teams, and others, get more money in Tuscaloosa than they would playing at home.


And unlike Alabama players, who are more than likely to see unique and interesting environments around the country as they play bowls and playoff games over the course of their college years, Mercer players really will only likely get that "big time" experience once or twice, on those visits into Tuscaloosa.
   88. PepTech Posted: December 05, 2017 at 01:54 PM (#5586520)
Without going into depth on any single line of query you mention here, I'll simply not that none of them are actually about strength of schedule. Doing a home and home against USC so those poor Bama players can see SoCal once in their lives isn't the argument you've been applying above, which (to my reading) is that Alabama's strength of schedule is soft and should be discredited because they don't do official "home and away" dates with other out of conference Power 5 programs.
You're right, it's an add-on reason. Ultimately my argument is strength of schedule, pure and simple. Sorry if the other stuff clouds that message.

We heard a lot about how Oklahoma and Georgia had good road wins this year. This high horse (yes, I do recognize it for what it is :)) originated when Washington was taking so much crap for its soft schedule, which was implemented years ago by a previous regime. When Chris Peterson came in, he acknowledged local criticism about the previous philosophy and openly moved the program to the ABC approach - essentially one ranked team, one non-ranked P5, and one cupcake per year (although that's probably not how he puts it). Playing ranked teams involves H&A series, and so probably does the non-ranked P5. Which means, on average, you should be playing one road OOC and two home OOCs every season, which pretty much every P5 team that is not in Tuscaloosa actually does. There may be outliers - Washington State, this season, for example, aligned all their non-cons at home. But only the Tide make it a tradition, and *then* have the gall to invoke "body of work". Only 'Bama thinks they're above visiting OOC campuses.

I do think that, as a sideline, kids derive a small benefit from exposure to the rest of the country. Bowl games do provide this, to an extent, and the Kickoff Classics less so if they go to Orlando or Atlanta EVERY year. For that matter, many teams end up in the same bowl a lot (Phoenix and tOSU are mutually sick of each other at this point). An outing to Columbus or Austin or South Bend seems like it would be much more appealing to most kids - and boosters - then blasting The Citadel. Over. And over.

So keep the cupcake, give the Mercer guys a chance to visit *their* big city and get their payday. Just replace *either* Colo State or Fresno State with a H&A against Sparty or someone. Literally EVERYONE else does it. Failing that, say "our schedule is what it is", not "body of work".
   89. wjones Posted: December 05, 2017 at 02:00 PM (#5586529)
Yes, they get that at Ole Miss, but it's not like Ann Arbor or Lincoln

You have obviously never been to Baton Rouge...or Auburn. I'm sure Tide hate is ferocious up there, too. Just sayin'.

Bear did take his team out on the road. The USC series, initially, was for the good of the program, and there are very few who could get away with it now....or then. Bear wanted to recruit black athletes, but ran against walls. Fans, university, and especially the governor were all stumbling blocks, and that last one was a doozy that not even a powerful coach like Bear could overcome. His strategy for going to USC was to show his opposition how much he needed to be able to recruit ALL good athletes, and the cost was going to be getting his brains beat out. It worked, he was allowed to open up the athletic program to black athletes, he went secretly next summer to Darrel Royal's house to learn the wishbone (imagine trying to keep that a secret now) and the rest is history. That tended to continue for the rest of Bryant's career....I remember working back-to-back games in Legion Field in 1978, the first against Nebraska and the second against USC.

That being said, do any of us know if Saban has approached, or has been approached, on a home and home series? Neither do I. I do know he has pushed the kick-off classic games. No one seems to remember that Florida State was #3 at the time of this year's game.
   90. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 05, 2017 at 02:16 PM (#5586547)
That being said, do any of us know if Saban has approached, or has been approached, on a home and home series? Neither do I. I do know he has pushed the kick-off classic games. No one seems to remember that Florida State was #3 at the time of this year's game.


I think this is the most lost point re: Alabama's schedule this year. FSU finished out of contention this year because Alabama destroyed their star QB's knee. But that game was a matchup against a legitimate top 5 team at the time it was played.
   91. PepTech Posted: December 05, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5586558)
You have obviously never been to Baton Rouge...or Auburn. I'm sure Tide hate is ferocious up there, too. Just sayin'.
Oh, I'm sure it is. And every four-year kid will get around the tri-state area twice, and they're all within a few hours drive. A flight to somewhere else is fun!

Good for the Bear, that's some cool backstory. As for Saban, c'mon, you've got to imagine the idea of an actual road game has at least come up. It's clearly a strategy. The Kickoff Games are good, but there's something to be said about a week two or week three trial by fire. Wouldn't you like to see them play - and heck, win! - in Columbus?
   92. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 05, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5586593)
Wouldn't you like to see them play - and heck, win! - in Columbus?


What makes you thing Urban Meyer would take this home and home any more than Saban? What do you think the playoff committee honchos would say to the idea of having two of their prime-time "possible CFP finalists" meet in week three? Programs like ND and UGA, who are looking for talking points to validate potential championship caliber seasons, do this sort of thing. There's no reason teams that are already "over the hump" nationally would look for them per se.
   93. PepTech Posted: December 05, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5586616)
Sure there is - they want to avoid being called puss!es on baseball message boards. :)

Meyer *does* do this. H&A against teams like Oklahoma and Washington. CFP is supposed to be about this season’s merits, not the standing of the program over time.
   94. RMc's Unenviable Situation Posted: December 05, 2017 at 02:58 PM (#5586617)
The Crampton Bowl is a throwback to a much earlier era of stadiums. It is approaching its 100th birthday with only minor renovation / remodeling since WWII.


Fun fact: The eighth and deciding game of the 1943 Negro World Series was held at the Cramton Bowl, with the Homestead Grays defeating the Birmingham Black Barons, 8-4.

Even funner fact: It's "Cramton", without a P.
   95. dlf Posted: December 05, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5586659)
Does anyone have data on whether a given top 5 team facing another top 20 team can be expected to have a better, equal, or worse record from two games at a neutral site vs. one game at home and one on the road? The talk of a home and home series contrasted with an annual visit to a kick off in Dallas or New Jersey or Atlanta presupposes an answer that I doubt is correct.

Even funner fact: It's "Cramton", without a P.


Damn. I lived less than 10 miles away for the better part of a decade and can't claim that the prior post was a typo - every time I heard the name it was pronounced with the stray letter.
   96. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 05, 2017 at 03:35 PM (#5586666)
Meyer *does* do this. H&A against teams like Oklahoma and Washington.


In that Meyer does this it is due to his realization that tOSU lacks respect outside of the Buckeye echo chamber, as does the B1G in general.
   97. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 05, 2017 at 03:37 PM (#5586668)
Meyer *does* do this.


He may want to re-think. If they had played Oklahoma A&M instead, they would be in the championship instead of Alabama.
   98. wjones Posted: December 05, 2017 at 03:40 PM (#5586670)
I'm trying to remember the exact quote I heard from General Neyland (not the General himself; it was quoted by one of the Georgia broadcasters). Neyland is still the winningest coach, by win %, in SEC history, and is close to the top nationally. Bear never beat him at any of the schools he coached. Anyway, the quote was something to the effect that a team was only capable of getting up for a big game no more than twice in any given year, and to give his teams the best chance of success he would schedule accordingly. He was apparently famous for scheduling easy teams around the big teams on his schedule. It was a bit easier back then, of course; fewer conference teams and fewer games. It wasn't reported whether any fans of any sport called him a #####, though if so I am sure it wasn't to his face. :)
   99. wjones Posted: December 05, 2017 at 03:41 PM (#5586671)
Meyer *does* do this.


He may want to re-think. If they had played Oklahoma A&M instead, they would be in the championship instead of Alabama.



Maybe not, if the Iowa game is an indication.
   100. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: December 05, 2017 at 04:12 PM (#5586719)
Maybe not, if the Iowa game is an indication.


Right. If tOSU's ONLY loss were the Oklahoma game they'd still be in the playoff ahead of Alabama. If they had beat OK and then lost to Iowa, they'd be in the playoff ahead of Alabama. The reason they're not is that they lost to OK at home, and then shat the bed in Iowa as well.
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