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Wednesday, March 01, 2017

OT - March 2017 NBA thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of bothered to submit a monthly thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  I dunno, baseball, maybe?  Probably politics, but maybe some baseball, too.

Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:37 AM | 4416 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   1. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:43 AM (#5410739)
Happy New Year, NBA thread.
   2. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5410755)
Happy New Year, NBA thread.

I don't know, feels a little rushed.
   3. Rob_Wood Posted: March 01, 2017 at 12:54 PM (#5410822)
I fully support the idea of going back to the old Roman calendar having exactly ten months.

And I am not a crackpot.
   4. aberg Posted: March 01, 2017 at 01:00 PM (#5410826)
Happy New Year, NBA thread.

I don't know, feels a little rushed.


It's already March NBA Thread and I'm still writing December NBA Thread on my checks.
   5. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 01:19 PM (#5410841)
It's already March NBA Thread and I'm still writing December NBA Thread on my checks.

Actual LOL, as the youth say.

Berg, since you're here, OT to the OT: what's your stance on the "JT3 must go" talk?
   6. aberg Posted: March 01, 2017 at 01:48 PM (#5410873)
Berg, since you're here, OT to the OT: what's your stance on the "JT3 must go" talk?


I'm sad about it because I saw the good times. My freshman year was the last Esherick season. Nonetheless, I have never seen a team so disconnected and uninspired. He has always had a tendency to over-coach, but this is much worse. He's clearly not getting through to the players at all. Maybe a new group of guys changes that? I wouldn't want to bet on it. Also, with the way the conference has changed and Georgetown's history, it's not the type of team that will inevitably bounce back, like Kentucky after a couple of down years. Georgetown could fade into obscurity like St John's has, and I desperately want to avoid that.

I don't follow CBB closely enough to know what other options are out there or if there is an up and coming replacement who could step in. I also appreciate the history and the hold the family has on the school. I still think it's time to part ways, however that is best done. The thing that pushed me over the edge is that this is the worst 4-year stretch the team has had since before they started trying at sports.
   7. madvillain Posted: March 01, 2017 at 02:00 PM (#5410888)
Cameron Payne is my new whipping boy. WTF was Garpax thinking getting this guy.
   8. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 01, 2017 at 02:38 PM (#5410909)
I'm willing to cut Payne a little slack, as he's been hurt and is new. I don't think anything he can do this year will change my impression of him, and the Bulls still should be looking for a better PG, or at least one that can shoot. I guess Grant's shooting is a nice, but...

That doesn't excuse Fred deciding to play a backcourt of Payne and Rondo together. I mean, it's 2017.
   9. madvillain Posted: March 01, 2017 at 02:47 PM (#5410912)
Hoiberg was awful last night with his rotations. That said, Butler playing like garbage didn't help.
   10. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 01, 2017 at 02:52 PM (#5410915)
The Bulls just don't have the horses or athletes or shooters to keep up to a team playing at that pace. I was pleasantly surprised the Bulls were able to play that type of game for 3 quarters though; or about 2.5 more quarters than I thought they could.
   11. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 01, 2017 at 03:03 PM (#5410921)
Marc Stein‏ @ESPNSteinLine 32s32 seconds ago
The Sixers just announced Joel Embiid is out for the rest of the season. #hammerblow


Statement says bone bruise has improved significantly, but the meniscus tear is more pronounced.
   12. SBB, Live from the Alt-Center Posted: March 01, 2017 at 03:29 PM (#5410939)
The danger of Joel Embiid never really being healthy enough is quite significant at this point. Dude was completely babied this year, after two fully years off, and still couldn't come close to getting through the year.
   13. madvillain Posted: March 01, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5410969)
Quite the statement from the Sixers' Ministry of Information today:

"The assessment of Monday's follow-up MRI of Joel Embiid's left knee appears to reveal that the area affected by the bone bruise has improved significantly, while the previously identified meniscus tear appears more pronounced in this most recent scan," said Sixers Chief Medical Director and Co-Chief of Sports Medicine Orthopedics at New York’s Mount Sinai Medical Center Dr. Jonathan Glashow. "We will continue to work with leading specialists to gather additional information through clinical examination and sequential testing to determine the best course of action and next steps."

"Our primary objective and focus remains to protect his long-term health and ability to perform on the basketball court," said Sixers President of Basketball Operations Bryan Colangelo. "As our medical team and performance staff continue their diligence in the evaluation, treatment, and rehabilitation of Joel's injury, we will provide any pertinent updates when available."


Paging theboyqueen: how does an elite (so called) ortho surgeon's evaluation, including a good old fashioned knee diagnostic test (does it hurt here...how about now?") miss a complete tear of the meniscus?

I thought that for cartilage it's much harder to rely on imagining tech? Why would they point out the results of the initial scan here other then to cover their ass?

Maybe the Sixers' docs aren't very good.
   14. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 01, 2017 at 04:00 PM (#5410975)
The most annoying part of the demise of The Process is going to be all the Sixers fans online blaming everything on Colangelo and Adam Silver. Reverence for Sam Hinkie only increases with every setback/disaster that comes as a result of his master plan. "True Processism was never tried!" will be the cry for generations to come.
   15. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5410980)
The danger of Joel Embiid never really being healthy enough is quite significant at this point.

If anything this is a dramatic understatement. At this point, don't they have to assume he will never be healthy enough to be a full-time starter? He played 25 minutes a game, no back-to-backs, and will finish with only 31 of his team's 82 games.
   16. The Good Face Posted: March 01, 2017 at 04:16 PM (#5410999)
Berg, since you're here, OT to the OT: what's your stance on the "JT3 must go" talk?


Looks like he's not going anywhere as long as his Daddy is still around. Shame, because the Big East could really use a strong Georgetown. If it wasn't for Xavier, Butler and Creighton stepping up, the conference could have fallen into an eastern version of the WCC with Villanova playing the part of Gonzaga.

The danger of Joel Embiid never really being healthy enough is quite significant at this point. Dude was completely babied this year, after two fully years off, and still couldn't come close to getting through the year.


Most likely true, and kind of sad. Embiid is wildly entertaining and has all the tools to be a super-duper star. Well, except for health. He doesn't appear to have that tool.
   17. smileyy Posted: March 01, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5411038)
Xavier has had a bad year this year personnel-wise:
* Two bigs transferring before the season (Makinde London, Eddie Ekiyor)
* Talented sophomore forward who can shoot the 3 and defend 1-4 has knee surgery at the start of the season and hasn't returned to last year's form (Kaiser Gates)
* Senior point guard and best 3-point shooter suspended for a semester, then leaves the team after they move on without him (Myles Davis)
* Most talented player tears ACL during conference play (Edmond Sumner)
* Leading scorer sprains ankle and misses a couple of games after that (Trevon Bluiett)

Turns out that a team with two potential NBA draft picks isn't that good when they're missing those players.

They can be very good next year if Bluiett and Sumner return. Quentin Goodin has been able to get some experience running the point....since he's the only point guard on the team right now. They're still thin at the 5 position, though Tyrique Jones could be the lunchpail guy they need.

OTOH, one more Big East win and they extend an extremely long stretch (>20 years) of >= .500 in conference play, which is the longest active streak in the country. And there, I jinxed them.
   18. The Good Face Posted: March 01, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5411044)
Xavier has had a bad year this year personnel-wise:


Yeah, Xavier had more than their fair share of bad luck this season. Still, there should be a lot of talent returning next year and Chris Mack is a good coach who has done a fine job of recruiting. I fully expect them to come back strong next year. Good thing too, what with Georgetown, DePaul and St. John's derping it up.
   19. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 05:00 PM (#5411045)
This was totally my fault but I think people in the NBA thread have not wanted to mix the college game in, in the past. Sorry, I was just asking a quick aside about Georgetown, didn't mean to derail!
   20. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: March 01, 2017 at 05:02 PM (#5411048)
If a guy has bad legs, he has bad legs; it's pretty much a truism in basketball. Is there any big who's ever had anything like Embiid's list of serious injuries at such a young age and gone on to play even as much as two or three kinda-full NBA seasons? I can't think of anyone, but I don't know basketball history that well.

Greg Oden played in 105 NBA games. (He actually played in 61 games his "rookie" year, at 21 MPG.) I think that, sadly, that's probably right about where a reasonable over/under on Embiid's career games played would be set.

There is still a chance the Sixers are now playing up his injuries because they want to tank the rest of the way--although if that's the case, they're doing an excellent job of it. All indications are that it's pretty serious.

Maybe the best thing to do with Embiid is to just try to make the playoffs without him and then turn him loose in May. Good luck selling him on that plan, though :)
   21. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 01, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5411060)
the good news in all of this is that the doctor who's now treating embiid is the same doctor who worked on andrew bynum, jason richardson and ben simmons.
   22. aberg Posted: March 01, 2017 at 05:29 PM (#5411065)
the good news in all of this is that the doctor who's now treating embiid is the same doctor who worked on andrew bynum, jason richardson and ben simmons.


At least one of those guys still plays basketball for a living.
   23. GordonShumway Posted: March 01, 2017 at 05:30 PM (#5411068)
If a guy has bad legs, he has bad legs; it's pretty much a truism in basketball. Is there any big who's ever had anything like Embiid's list of serious injuries at such a young age and gone on to play even as much as two or three kinda-full NBA seasons? I can't think of anyone, but I don't know basketball history that well.

Greg Oden played in 105 NBA games. (He actually played in 61 games his "rookie" year, at 21 MPG.) I think that, sadly, that's probably right about where a reasonable over/under on Embiid's career games played would be set.

Not a big, but Shaun Livingston was the first guy to come to mind.
   24. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 01, 2017 at 05:45 PM (#5411078)
At least one of those guys still plays basketball for a living.
nominally.
   25. aberg Posted: March 01, 2017 at 05:47 PM (#5411079)
Some guys who came back from serious lower body injuries:
-Al Jefferson
-Amare Stoudemire (never the picture of good health, but played for a long time)
-Paul George
-Jamal Crawford
-Kyle Lowry
-Bernard King and Elgin Baylor (sort of)
   26. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 01, 2017 at 06:02 PM (#5411087)
There's got to be a difference between guys who are injury prone (i.e. Oden) and guys who have had terrible injuries (i.e. Livingston). But even if we tried to do that, I'm sure there's both comebacks and non-comebacks in both categories. Plenty of guys have come back from ACL tears or broken bones or even foot problems (like Durant), but it's scarier when it's someone just can't stay healthy, like Embiid looks like.

Embiid really hasn't suffered one terrible injury, right? I guess I'm quibbling with the "bad legs" diagnosis because that phrase is just carrying a ton of water. Even this current meniscus issue, there's guys who have come back from that (didn't Westbrook tear his twice) and guys who haven't (Rose; though he had more than just that).
   27. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: March 01, 2017 at 06:08 PM (#5411090)
Up through about his second year in the NBA there was a lot of concern that Steph Curry could never seem to stop suffering leg injuries too, wasn't there?

Seems like it's different for bigs, but that's just intuitive and quite possibly wrong. I'm not really sure Big Al and Amare are comparable to Embiid.
   28. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: March 01, 2017 at 06:08 PM (#5411091)
Yay, I can tie the two strands of this thread together - the obvious example of a super athletic big who overcame serious leg injuries as a young player to have a long and excellent career would be Patrick Ewing. But it required a total rebuild of his game, and Georgetown Ewing never came back after his knees went around 1986.
   29. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 01, 2017 at 06:11 PM (#5411094)
Up through about his second year in the NBA there was a lot of concern that Steph Curry could never seem to stop suffering leg injuries too, wasn't there?

Ankle issues. This was linked at the time, but it's a great read. He's on such a steal of a deal because of the injury concerns. But even that seems to be one specific issue that was re-occurring and was "fixed". Embiid has had back, knee, and foot issues, right?
   30. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: March 01, 2017 at 07:28 PM (#5411124)
Last night's OKC-Utah game was the worst officiated game, in terms of the refs blatantly favoring the home team, that I've seen all year.

Fun game despite that. OKC opened the game 12-for-12 from three point range, and Utah took their first lead of the night with less than three minutes left in the game.

When George Hill is on the court Utah is really good.
   31. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 01, 2017 at 07:32 PM (#5411126)
Is embiid still the frontrunner for ROY?
   32. JuanGone..except1game Posted: March 01, 2017 at 07:37 PM (#5411129)
Embiid has had back, knee, and foot issues, right?

I think that's the key. You might be able to fix one of those issues, but it's pretty obvious that there are just some overall structural issues. 7'0"rs are freaks enough, but those who can play 70+ games of basketball over 5+ years are even freakier. I remember this conversation when I kept hoping that Andrew Bynum would get past his injury issues, while all of the numbers stacked up that 7'0"rs who are routinely injured in their physical primes are as bad a bet as you can get. Kupchack (R.I.P) made one of his best ever moves off-loading him before that history caught up with the Lakers.
   33. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 01, 2017 at 07:38 PM (#5411130)
Is embiid still the frontrunner for ROY?

I doubt it. His case is helped by his being a beast and no one else truly standing out, but he's played what, 30 games this season? I suspect the voters will look askance at his playing fewer than half the games and not finishing the season. Who else is in the conversation? Saric? Brogdon? Ingram and Brown haven't done enough, and I'm struggling to think of anyone else in the conversation.
   34. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 01, 2017 at 07:38 PM (#5411131)
Not if he only plays 31 games, he isn't.
   35. Conor Posted: March 01, 2017 at 07:56 PM (#5411133)
How about Zydrunas Ilgauskas for a guy who came back from injuries. Big guy, serious foot problems early in his career, but from age 27-31 he missed 14 games in 5 seasons. And he played 73 games the next season, at age 32. All in, he played 60 games or more his final 10 seasons.
   36. Rob_Wood Posted: March 01, 2017 at 07:58 PM (#5411134)
Last night's OKC-Utah game was the worst officiated game, in terms of the refs blatantly favoring the home team, that I've seen all year.

I don't want to be that guy, but this is one of the really weak spots of the NBA. I love the NBA, really I do. But I am literally sickened by the home-team bias in NBA refereeing. (Hey if jmurph can sneak in discussion of college basketball, I can try to sneak in another "literally" discussion.)
   37. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: March 01, 2017 at 08:02 PM (#5411137)
The refs routinely favor the home team; I get that, everyone involved knows it, I don't enjoy it but like everyone else I've gotten used to it. It's just once in a while, for whatever reason, they get REALLY over-the-top obvious about it.

It wasn't even Westbrook getting superstar calls any more than he usually does. And the final box score doesn't suggest lopsided officiating, not much more than usual anyway (OKC shot 23 free throws to Utah's 13). It was just a lot of little ticky-tack calls against Utah and, most glaringly, a lot of routine, obvious fouls committed by OKC players (Steven Adams in particular could have fouled out twice, had he been playing on the road) that went uncalled while much lesser stuff was called against Utah players.

Personally my #1 pet peeve about NBA officiating is how happy the refs are to call defensive fouls in instances where the ball handler goes far out of his way to initiate contact. James Harden raised it to an art form but a lot of guys are doing it now.
   38. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: March 01, 2017 at 08:29 PM (#5411159)
FWIW, here are all rookies, minimum 800 minutes played, sorted by WS/48. I was going to do >= 1000MP, but I went down to 800 to get Brown, Dunn, and Hernangomez in:
.                                                  Crit
Rk                Player  Season Age  Tm  Lg   MP WS
/48  G GS  FG FGA  2P 2PA 3P 3PA  FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF PTS  FG%  2P%  3PeFG%  FT%  TS%
1      Willy Hernangomez 2016-17  22 NYK NBA  852  .129 52  6 146 268 143 256  3  12  57  77 105 214 319  58  23  30  62  92 352 .545 .559 .250 .550 .740 .583
2        Malcolm Brogdon 2016
-17  24 MIL NBA 1483  .087 58 12 208 468 150 329 58 139  86 102  32 120 152 246  68   7  91 109 560 .444 .456 .417 .506 .843 .546
3          Pascal Siakam 2016
-17  22 TOR NBA  806  .078 48 38  94 187  94 183  0   4  22  32  59 107 166  15  23  42  31 103 210 .503 .514 .000 .503 .688 .522
4        Rodney McGruder 2016
-17  25 MIA NBA 1455  .075 56 43 134 329  79 172 55 157  35  53  73 116 189  82  39  13  37 103 358 .407 .459 .350 .491 .660 .508
5        Andrew Harrison 2016
-17  22 MEM NBA 1167  .060 55 15  91 284  57 159 34 125 120 156  19  84 103 157  45  18  66 157 336 .320 .358 .272 .380 .769 .476
6    Dorian Finney
-Smith 2016-17  23 DAL NBA 1197  .056 58 29  91 225  49  93 42 132  36  47  35 116 151  47  37  19  36  96 260 .404 .527 .318 .498 .766 .529
7           Jaylen Brown 2016
-17  20 BOS NBA  900  .051 56 15 125 282  98 203 27  79  65  93  31 115 146  38  26  14  42  97 342 .443 .483 .342 .491 .699 .530
8        Marquese Chriss 2016
-17  19 PHO NBA 1153  .035 60 53 180 420 136 275 44 145  68 112  69 145 214  39  48  37  66 184 472 .429 .495 .303 .481 .607 .503
9           Jamal Murray 2016
-17  19 DEN NBA 1194  .026 60  3 189 488 112 255 77 233  76  87  33 118 151 105  28  19  75  82 531 .387 .439 .330 .466 .874 .504
10           Dario Saric 2016
-17  22 PHI NBA 1476  .022 59 14 245 610 172 375 73 235 104 132  85 280 365 114  37  16 116 104 667 .402 .459 .311 .461 .788 .499
11      Domantas Sabonis 2016
-17  20 OKC NBA 1278  .020 60 60 149 366 109 238 40 128  23  35  34 185 219  63  31  25  66 149 361 .407 .458 .313 .462 .657 .473
12           Buddy Hield 2016
-17  23 TOT NBA 1240  .015 60 37 199 500 106 246 93 254  36  41  19 158 177  80  20   7  56  83 527 .398 .431 .366 .491 .878 .509
13       Malcolm Delaney 2016
-17  27 ATL NBA 1048  .010 59  2 129 336 106 244 23  92  62  77  10  94 104 164  34   1  80  93 343 .384 .434 .250 .418 .805 .464
14             Kris Dunn 2016
-17  22 MIN NBA  930 -.001 56  6  80 214  66 164 14  50  30  51  19 103 122 141  48  25  71 117 204 .374 .402 .280 .407 .588 .431
15        Brandon Ingram 2016
-17  19 LAL NBA 1720 -.015 61 22 179 484 135 335 44 149 101 158  43 205 248 120  28  26  79 118 503 .370 .403 .295 .415 .639 .454
16      Isaiah Whitehead 2016
-17  21 BRK NBA 1090 -.046 50 26 137 350 107 257 30  93  55  67  17 106 123 147  28  23 104 125 359 .391 .416 .323 .434 .821 .473 


Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 3/1/2017.

I think Brogdon. Hernangomez is having a damn fine rookie season too, but he hasn't gotten enough minutes/starts to really be in the conversation. Saric's case is interesting.
   39. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: March 01, 2017 at 08:33 PM (#5411162)
   40. Rob_Wood Posted: March 01, 2017 at 09:01 PM (#5411181)
Personally my #1 pet peeve about NBA officiating is how happy the refs are to call defensive fouls in instances where the ball handler goes far out of his way to initiate contact. James Harden raised it to an art form but a lot of guys are doing it now.

My view is that this is on the wane. I have seen numerous instances in which no call is called and even a few where the offensive player initiating the contact is called for the foul. Officials are much less likely to call those ridiculous calls (like they did a few years ago) when the defender stays square to the offensive player, or jumps straight up with no coming down with the hands, or moves backwards away from the offensive player.

But I agree that there are still way too many of these calls.
   41. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 01, 2017 at 09:10 PM (#5411184)
Jahlil Okafor adding to the highlight reel.
he did a great job of preserving his energy so he'll can be fresh at the end of the game. he challenged the shot and caused a miss, then he boxed out and someone else's man got the offensive rebound. i fail to see how he did anything other than what he was supposed to on that sequence.
   42. JC in DC Posted: March 01, 2017 at 09:19 PM (#5411190)
Your sarcasm is showing, Stiggles. That little sequence is a damning as one can be. That's a 20 y/o kid showing 0 energy. That does not bode well.
   43. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 09:31 PM (#5411193)
Universal agreement on the True Hoop podcast yesterday that Harrison Barnes has been worth his contract so far. Looking into it... he has been terrible. BPM hates him, VORP hates him, WS/48 hates him, RPM has him as the 28th best small forward in the league (even giving him RPM wins, which I think would account for playing time, he's only the 18th best SF). He continues to be a bad basketball player, and now he's really expensive.

Somehow he's posting a career best PER, which makes no sense to me, but that's it. What am I missing?
   44. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: March 01, 2017 at 09:43 PM (#5411197)
Games between 2 good teams are starting to pick up some playoff chippiness. This is fun.

Also, Shumpert is ####### awful.
   45. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 01, 2017 at 09:44 PM (#5411198)
Your sarcasm is showing, Stiggles. That little sequence is a damning as one can be. That's a 20 y/o kid showing 0 energy. That does not bode well.
yeah, pretty much.

does the NBA give TUEs for greenies?
   46. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 09:47 PM (#5411200)
Jahlil Okafor adding to the highlight reel.

That is legitimately shocking.
   47. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 01, 2017 at 09:49 PM (#5411201)
Somehow he's posting a career best PER, which makes no sense to me, but that's it. What am I missing?
PER is a counting stat and barnes' usage% this year is 10 points higher than his average with GSW.

as for what other people see, barnes doubled his PPG without a substantial loss in efficiency, so i'd imagine that's about 90% of what they're crediting him for.
   48. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 09:53 PM (#5411202)
as for what other people see, barnes doubled his PPG without a substantial loss in efficiency, so i'd imagine that's about 90% of what they're crediting him for.

His shooting has declined (from an already unimpressive place). They're better on offense when he's off the floor. I mean I guess if people want to be distracted by a completely empty 20 points a game that's great, but there's no reason to think that deal isn't the disaster we all thought it would be.
   49. Rob_Wood Posted: March 01, 2017 at 10:02 PM (#5411207)
A 2017 empty 20-point basketball player is equivalent to a 1980 empty .300-hitting baseball player. It will take awhile longer before the general basketball fan (including some really smart people) elevates their understanding of basketball stats.

I have seen several Dallas games this year and, honestly, to me Barnes did look better than he did with the Warriors. Although I can be among those who are enamored by 20 points a game including some great offensive moves and thunderous dunks. :)
   50. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 10:07 PM (#5411208)
I have seen several Dallas games this year and, honestly, to me Barnes did look better than he did with the Warriors.

I actually agree with this! I haven't seen them a ton, but when I did he at least looked more active. Eh, I don't know, maybe he's just doing something that... basically all of the advanced stats are missing?
   51. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 01, 2017 at 10:08 PM (#5411209)
His shooting has declined (from an already unimpressive place). They're better on offense when he's off the floor. I mean I guess if people want to be distracted by a completely empty 20 points a game that's great, but there's no reason to think that deal isn't the disaster we all thought it would be.
the difference between barnes shooting 34% on 3s and 38% is only 7 shots going through the rim instead of off it. it's not just a fluke, but it's a fluke.
   52. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 10:15 PM (#5411215)
the difference between barnes shooting 34% on 3s and 38% is only 7 shots going through the rim instead of off it. it's not just a fluke, but it's a fluke.

Fair, but his TS% and EFG% are down, too. Basically the difference between this year and last is a few more minutes and 7.5 more FGA.
   53. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 01, 2017 at 10:31 PM (#5411219)
Fair, but his TS% and EFG% are down, too. Basically the difference between this year and last is a few more minutes and 7.5 more FGA.
compared to last year, barnes is taking 8 more FGAs per game, but fewer 3PAs. the percentage of 3PAs/FGAs this year is about half what it was last year.
   54. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 10:44 PM (#5411225)
Minnesota looking great in Utah right now, this is an impressive performance.
   55. Booey Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:02 PM (#5411231)
Jazz with their worst game of the season. Looks like it could be a 30 pt home loss to Minny.

This game illustrates two of the biggest issues (other than injuries) the Jazz have had all season. First, they don't play any better at home than on the road (and sometimes worse - they beat the Wolves both times in Minneapolis). And 2nd, they rarely lose just a single game. Way too many of their losses become 2 or 3 game losing streaks. I don't like to psychoanalyze, but they need to figure out some way to bounce back quicker.
   56. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:16 PM (#5411236)
I have watched little Mavs this season, but I thought Barnes willingly and credibly moving to smallball PF was one of the keys to the Mavs Dirk-as-center lineups this season. Don't know how much that should count for, but it's not nothing.
   57. Booey Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:25 PM (#5411238)
To add to my #55, Utah's habit of stringing losses together is even more pronounced after what could be described as "heartbreaking" losses. Small sample size, of course, but the Jazz have lost 5 games this season in the last couple seconds, and they went on to lose the next game in 4 of them. If I wanted to channel my inner Bill Simmons and flaunt my armchair psychology degree, I'd say they need to learn to shake off tough losses and stop hanging their heads.
   58. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:51 PM (#5411244)
Kawhi hero-ball wins a game for the Spurs in the final seconds.
   59. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: March 02, 2017 at 06:18 AM (#5411281)
Utah was on the back end of a back-to-back (including travel!) so I would suggest that the fact they sucked was completely expected and means nothing.
   60. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: March 02, 2017 at 09:45 AM (#5411318)
Kawhi Leonard's usage is 31.2%. I don't know quite how usage is calculated, though it seems to not capture initiating a play for someone else to make a shot.

His ability to get better offensively every year is remarkable.
   61. GordonShumway Posted: March 02, 2017 at 11:01 AM (#5411382)
Heh, can't believe I forgot about Sabonis. Even bigger and even more talented than Embiid, and with an injury history that would make the Black Knight proud.
   62. aberg Posted: March 02, 2017 at 12:10 PM (#5411502)
Speaking of Sabonis, I was thinking last night that the current version of Nurkic is about the closest thing Westerners will ever get to see to the mythical prime Sabonis.

Yes, the Wolves were really solid last night. They are finally starting to help each other on defense. It's probably too late to matter much this season, but they are legitimately improving. It doesn't hurt to have Towns scoring 28 on 60% shooting and Wiggins scoring 25 on 50% shooting.
   63. Manny Coon Posted: March 02, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5411512)
Speaking of Sabonis, I was thinking last night that the current version of Nurkic is about the closest thing Westerners will ever get to see to the mythical prime Sabonis.


You mean Jokic right?
   64. aberg Posted: March 02, 2017 at 12:21 PM (#5411514)
To elaborate a bit more, the Wolves are 14-10 over the last 24 games. In that stretch, Wiggins is averaging 25.3, shooting 49.6%, 36.3% on 3s and 80% on 6 FTA/g. Towns is averaging 28 on 60.2% shooting, 44.1% on 2.5 3PA/g, 84% from the line, 13.1 rpg, 3 a, 1.5 b. Rubio is avereaging 12/11 over that stretch with a stunning 40.3% FG. Shabazz came to life with 12 ppg (50% FG, 42% 3s). Even Bjelica has started to wake up lately with back to back double doubles.

This stretch doesn't line up perfectly with Lavine's injury (11 games ago), but he was in a funk before that and the team has definitely played better with a defensive-minded role player in his spot.
   65. aberg Posted: March 02, 2017 at 12:22 PM (#5411515)
You mean Jokic right?


Ha, yes, absolutely. I think I have inverted their names every time I have ever tried to refer to one or the other. Apparently splitting them onto different teams did not cure me.
   66. Tin Angel Posted: March 02, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5411576)
Speaking of Jokic/Denver, this possession was really something.
   67. jmurph Posted: March 02, 2017 at 01:10 PM (#5411580)
So Embiid is eligible for an extension this offseason, which I'm assuming doesn't happen? What I'm curious about, though, is what happens next year. What if there's an exact replica of this year- immense talent, continued missed time- then he hits RFA?
   68. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: March 02, 2017 at 03:02 PM (#5411728)
Speaking of Jokic/Denver, this possession was really something.

Maybe I'm just being a crochetty old man, but there was one or two overpasses, and a couple of missed passes there.

I give Embiid the RFA max next year if he plays roughly half the season at this level. Not even a question. The real question is what you do if he plays just a tiny bit.
   69. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: March 02, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5411801)
Speaking of Sabonis, I was thinking last night that the current version of (Jokic) is about the closest thing Westerners will ever get to see to the mythical prime Sabonis.

From what I understand about prime Sabonis, mainly from this video, he was skinny and a great athlete. I love Jokic but I don't think he's capable of throwing down a dunk like the one Sabonis puts on David Robinson here.
   70. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 02, 2017 at 04:24 PM (#5411836)
Even old, fat, and knee-crippled Sabonis was a pleasure to watch. Dude could play.
   71. JC in DC Posted: March 02, 2017 at 04:53 PM (#5411867)
Spicey, I agree about that play. The passing was solid, but not great. Even Jokic's behind the back was less than ideal as it didn't give the guy time to shoot.
   72. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 02, 2017 at 04:57 PM (#5411874)
"The Sixers view Embiid as a one-of-a-kind player who will get over this injury. They believe his current situation is a breeze compared with the career-threatening foot injuries he overcame"
   73. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 02, 2017 at 05:00 PM (#5411877)
I mean they're locked into that worldview, aren't they? Their options are either a) Embiid pans out and they have a franchise cornerstone for the foreseeable future or b) The Process was a bust and they need to recalibrate for a world in which they have some assets, but no star unless Simmons really pans out. There is no upside in them doing anything right now but backing Embiid to the hilt.
   74. JC in DC Posted: March 02, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5411882)
I do really feel a bit for 76ers fans, and I hope Embiid comes back. They were so close to getting reasonably excited about their future, built around an increasingly healthy Embiid. That looks much less likely, despite the quotation in 72. Regardless, an NBA with Embiid is better than the alternative, so I really do hope he heals and can have a lengthy career. Barring that, a team built around Saric is much less exciting for everyone.
   75. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 02, 2017 at 07:40 PM (#5411934)
Jahlil Okafor adding to the highlight reel.
Just go around to seeing this. I... can't... stop... laughing....
   76. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 02, 2017 at 08:30 PM (#5411946)
I thought he was one of the worst defensive players I’ve scouted. I’ve seen him in practice, Nike Hoop Summit, and watched him all year. You can put on any Duke game, and if the commentator had a brain — like [Jay] Bilas — they would talk about it. Like … holy ####. Look at some of the games they lost. The Miami game at home — they exposed this guy, play after play. I always say this about college players: What was Mike [Krzyzewski] going to do? Of course he is going to play. You aren’t going to take him off the floor. Who are you going to play? [Marshall] Plumlee? So he is going to stay in the game, regardless of his inability to guard. He’s going one, two, or three. Those teams that are drafting him? They aren’t going to win anyway. The consequences are diminished.
scout 2 may have been on to something.
   77. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 02, 2017 at 08:35 PM (#5411948)
also, the sixers signed F justin harper for some reason.

who can i blow to get edy tavares on a 10-day?
   78. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: March 02, 2017 at 10:33 PM (#5411972)
Golden State just doesn't look that scary without Durant. Ezeli and Bogut brought a lot to their team last year. Plus, Thompson and Curry were just shooting the damn lights out. It was like nothing we've ever seen before. They're still incredible, but now they're like "normal" great shooters.

It'll be interesting to see how they finish of the season.
   79. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 02, 2017 at 10:34 PM (#5411973)
This Bulls TNT winning streak is the greatest and most inexplicable force in the universe.
   80. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: March 02, 2017 at 10:42 PM (#5411976)
The Bulls are destined to carry out their destiny of playing a low scoring, tough to watch slugfest in the first round against a better team that will beat them.
   81. Tin Angel Posted: March 02, 2017 at 11:11 PM (#5411979)
Matt Steinmetz:
The Warriors (50-11) have now lost consecutive games for the first time in 146 games, dating back to April 2015...They went 6-for-30 from beyond the arc and are now 20-for-87 from out there on their five-game road trip...

Curry is 4-for-31 from 3-point range on this trip and Klay Thompson is 7-for-33.
   82. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: March 03, 2017 at 01:55 AM (#5411989)
This Bulls TNT winning streak


From the poor shooting to the national TV thing, there really isn't a more fitting team in the league for Rajon Rondo.
   83. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 03, 2017 at 08:06 AM (#5412004)
The Warriors (50-11) have now lost consecutive games for the first time in 146 games, dating back to April 2015...


The Warriors (50-11) have now lost consecutive regular season games for the first time in 146 games, dating back to April 2015...
   84. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 03, 2017 at 08:13 AM (#5412008)
I fully support the idea of going back to the old Roman calendar having exactly ten months.

And I am not a crackpot.


Kyrie Irving is intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletters.
   85. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 03, 2017 at 08:25 AM (#5412015)
10 months wouldn't fix the biggest issues with the current calendar.

13 months will fix most of the issues with the 12 month calendar.


I am not a crackpot.

"13 months of 28 days makes for 364 days in a year. To make it 365, Cotsworth added a new holiday after December 28—”Year Day,” a floating day, not part of any month. It would be a global sabbath"
http://gizmodo.com/how-the-quest-for-a-perfectly-rational-calendar-created-1697616634
   86. jmurph Posted: March 03, 2017 at 09:44 AM (#5412057)
This Bulls TNT winning streak is the greatest and most inexplicable force in the universe.

Cherry-picking Bulls results against teams objectively better than them:

2-1 vs Boston
3-0 vs Cleveland
1-1 vs Golden State
1-1 vs OKC
2-0 vs Toronto

7-1 vs Boston, Cleveland, and Toronto is pretty hilarious.
   87. theboyqueen Posted: March 03, 2017 at 09:54 AM (#5412067)
Paging theboyqueen: how does an elite (so called) ortho surgeon's evaluation, including a good old fashioned knee diagnostic test (does it hurt here...how about now?") miss a complete tear of the meniscus?


Your guess is as good as mine.

In some ways, these types of injuries can be worse than ACL tears. Those can be fixed and rehabbed. Meniscal injuries (especially those requiring surgery, which often involves removing cartilage) can put you down the Brandon Roy path.
   88. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: March 03, 2017 at 10:05 AM (#5412074)

Cherry-picking Bulls results against teams objectively better than them:

2-1 vs Boston
3-0 vs Cleveland
1-1 vs Golden State
1-1 vs OKC
2-0 vs Toronto

7-1 vs Boston, Cleveland, and Toronto is pretty hilarious.


Could this be because the Bulls are bad enough that the best teams kind of put it in cruise control against them, but not actually so bad that they can get away with it?

More particularly, it seems possible that since everyone knows the Bulls can't shoot at all, teams might think they can get away with taking it easy on defense and not chasing them around the way you usually have to in the NBA.

Or, y'know, it could be a totally meaningless 8 game sample. :)
   89. John M. Perkins Posted: March 03, 2017 at 10:21 AM (#5412088)
I like WS over WS/48. Otherwise Boban Marjanovich was the runaway rookie of the year last year.
WS/48 with arbitrary cutoffs are suspicious, particularly when then are designed to include or exclude certain players. Why purposely include inferior players like Brown and Dunn, while purposely excluding Embiid and ignorantly excluding Bertans?
WS as a cumulative rate stat, passes my test.

ROY
1) 2.7 Malcolm Brogdan
2T) 2.3 Willy Hernangomez and Rodney McGruder
4) 2.0 Joel Embiid
5) 1.7 Davis Bertans
   90. jmurph Posted: March 03, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5412109)
Or, y'know, it could be a totally meaningless 8 game sample. :)

Probably this, but if it means anything I think it should reflect poorly on Chicago. A team good enough to go 3-0 against the Cavs should probably not be hovering around .500.
   91. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 03, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5412111)
I like WS over WS/48. Otherwise Boban Marjanovich was the runaway rookie of the year last year.
WS/48 with arbitrary cutoffs are suspicious, particularly when then are designed to include or exclude certain players. Why purposely include inferior players like Brown and Dunn, while purposely excluding Embiid and ignorantly excluding Bertans?
WS as a cumulative rate stat, passes my test.
2008 ROY:
1, luis scola
2, jamario moon
..10, kevin durant


it's not that bad an idea, but it's got some blind spots. on the plus side, marc gasol would have won ROY over derrick rose, kawhi would have won ROY over kyrie, but on the downside, jamario moon.
   92. jmurph Posted: March 03, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5412112)
I'm on board with post 89- is this in response to another post (it's sort of framed that way but I can't tell who you're replying to)?
   93. PJ Martinez Posted: March 03, 2017 at 11:13 AM (#5412150)
Kevin Durant was pretty bad his rookie year, while Jamario Moon started 75 games for a playoff team. I mean, Moon was 27, but he was still a rookie. That doesn't strike me as a blind spot.
   94. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 03, 2017 at 11:19 AM (#5412155)
The Bulls are destined to carry out their destiny of playing a low scoring, tough to watch slugfest in the first round against a better team that will beat them.

I should have added pointless to my post. Because yes, this has been their destiny for the last decade.

2-1 vs Boston
3-0 vs Cleveland
1-1 vs Golden State
1-1 vs OKC
2-0 vs Toronto

7-1 vs Boston, Cleveland, and Toronto is pretty hilarious.


They're also 1-1 against SA and 1-0 against Utah.

Could this be because the Bulls are bad enough that the best teams kind of put it in cruise control against them, but not actually so bad that they can get away with it?

More particularly, it seems possible that since everyone knows the Bulls can't shoot at all, teams might think they can get away with taking it easy on defense and not chasing them around the way you usually have to in the NBA.

Or, y'know, it could be a totally meaningless 8 game sample. :)


No, because this isn't just a one year thing. It goes back to the Thibs era, and it's the only thing that's carried over to Hoiberg. Again, they've won 11 straight against Toronto; that's just inexplicable. They have an amazing regular season record against LeBron since he's gone to Miami, too.
   95. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 03, 2017 at 11:24 AM (#5412160)
Kevin Durant was pretty bad his rookie year, while Jamario Moon started 75 games for a playoff team. I mean, Moon was 27, but he was still a rookie. That doesn't strike me as a blind spot.


The mentality that says Rookie Of The Year voters should try to predict the player's future career instead of assessing who was the best rookie of the year is as strange as the mentality that gets outraged that Jordan didn't win 10+ MVPs.
   96. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 03, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5412182)
Why the Bulls Beat Good Teams, from earlier this year. Good read.
   97. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 03, 2017 at 02:13 PM (#5412322)
I think all awards need to be viewed extremely skeptically, with the understanding they are often awarded based on narrative and based in emotion rather than what they purport to be for.
   98. jmurph Posted: March 03, 2017 at 02:57 PM (#5412366)
Haberstroh mentioned the other day (I believe he was quoting Kevin Pelton) that the ROY winner is nearly always the leader in the big 3 categories: as in, add PPG, RPG, and APG together, and the rookie with the highest number usually wins. We could call this the MCW corollary, presumably.
   99. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 03, 2017 at 03:46 PM (#5412400)
The NBA ROY almost always becomes a star player - not like baseball. MCW looks like a clear exception. He will probably have the worst career for a ROY in the last 50 years. Who is the worst now? Phil Ford? Or maybe Darryl Griffith or some other big man who got injured young.
   100. STIGGLES don't want to talk about cracker barrel Posted: March 03, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5412407)
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