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Wednesday, March 01, 2017

OT - March 2017 NBA thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of bothered to submit a monthly thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  I dunno, baseball, maybe?  Probably politics, but maybe some baseball, too.

Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:37 AM | 7430 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   6201. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:10 AM (#5478231)
Yeah, I don't like the personal stuff around Jackson either.

Another sign that this is about collecting and possibly trading assets and not about a particular player: none of the guys Boston would be likely to take at no. 3 has worked out for the Celtics so far. Seems like they worked out Fultz to make sure they were OK passing on him. If this is about being totally in love with some other player, you think they'd have waited to work out the guy, have a meeting with him, etc.

Edit: Given the timing of the deal, and the fact that the Celtics just worked out Dennis Smith and Lauri Markannen, it seems not out of the question that Ainge is going to trade down even further. Or maybe's aiming to grab another, later pick.
   6202. Sleepless in Munich Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:25 AM (#5478232)
With love and respect, as I've said before, all the Celtics hand wringing over contracts is just... I don't know man. It isn't super complicated.

Butler is vastly underpaid in the current market. He will be vastly underpaid for two seasons. Thomas will be vastly underpaid next season. You max out a free agent, do what you have to do,and then let Horford walk when the time comes.


I actually believe that it's way more complicated than that, because "do what you have to do" isn't simple:

- Re-sign Thomas and Butler and keep some rotation pieces like Crowder around? That leads to big tax bills in 2018-19 and especially 2019-20.
- Re-sign Thomas and Butler but get rid of everybody else who makes more than the minimum? Your main window is 2017-18 and 2018-19, when both Cleveland and Golden State have historically strong teams. Plus the team might be a disaster after 2020.
- Re-sign only one of Thomas/Horford? Your window is 2017-18 and 2018-19.

Additionally, signing a max free agents also isn't simple. Hayward and Griffin will get max offers from a dozen teams, and only two of these teams will sign one of them.

Do people really think Horford came north for weather and the chowder? He didn't come to Boston to baby sit 19 year old kids.

1) Horford came hoping that Durant would also sign in Boston.
2) Why should the Celtics care what Horford wants?
   6203. Sean Forman Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:29 AM (#5478233)
Love love love the trade. Fultz looks pretty elite to me from the numbers and has a lot of defensive potential, and seems like a good character guy and fits Philly like a glove. It's going to be awesome.
   6204. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:46 AM (#5478234)
one minor thing worth mentioning for BOS:
draft express currently has the following ranked 2-5 for their 2018 mock draft:
6'10 PF
7' C
7' PF
6'9 C

obviously these rankings can change, but there's a lot of talented big men in next year's draft and the celtics have two pretty good shots at it.
   6205. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:48 AM (#5478235)
If the Celtics do sign Griffin or Hayward, that puts to rest any notion that they're going to max out Isaiah Thomas, right?

It's not just the character concerns that have me down on Josh Jackson. I don't like his game much, either. He'll need a lot of improvement to become an NBA star, and that's where the character concerns make me pessimistic that he's going to put in the work and focus his life on basketball.

I think he's another example of the danger of swooning for the siren song of athleticism and forgetting to consider whether the guy can play basketball at an NBA level. If you pick Josh Jackson up high, you're making a huge bet that after becoming a multimillionaire he'll screw his head on right and get dedicated to improvement. Doesn't seem like a smart bet to me.
   6206. MHS Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:04 AM (#5478237)
Agree paste.
   6207. Sleepless in Munich Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:22 AM (#5478239)
If the Celtics do sign Griffin or Hayward, that puts to rest any notion that they're going to max out Isaiah Thomas, right?

I don't think so. They can a) carry three max contracts or b) trade Horford to a team with cap room. Both options seem more likely to me than letting Thomas walk for nothing - and somebody will offer Thomas a max deal if he plays another season on his current level.
   6208. jmurph Posted: June 18, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5478241)
With the 27th pick in the Fake Draft, the Brooklyn Fake Nets take Harry Giles, oft-injured big man, Duke. I already took Patton so there is some amount of overlap here, but A. Brooklyn is terrible and needs good young talent and B. if he can get and stay healthy, Giles is a lottery talent, so getting him this late would be an enormous steal. I imagine in real life a team would try to trade up with Brooklyn if Giles is still available at 27.

The Lakers are on the clock. Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ) - Semi Ojeleye, PF, SMU
27. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Harry Giles, PF/C, Duke
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

LAL: Brook Lopez
BKNY: Luol Deng, Julius Randle
   6209. J. Sosa Posted: June 18, 2017 at 10:24 AM (#5478242)
re: rr

Yes and IRRC there was also some lamentations over having to trade Jefferson which was quite amusing.

Re: Stiggles

Ball is my favorite as well assuming we aren't looking at a Marinovich situation. Fultz has less risk but I think there is a decent chance Ball could turn into Kidd lite.

Re: Horford

Assuming Celtics fans actually want to sign Hayward they should probably care quite a bit what Horford thinks. I don't follow the thought process that says:

Many teams will be competing for Hayward and it isn't certain we can get him but we do want to recruit him + Screw Horford who cares what we told him and what he thinks= profit.

Ainge knows what he's doing, I just don't think it involves selling Hayward on the school system and waiting for Brown and Fultz to turn into better prospects than they are.

In regards to Celtic fandom sometimes really intelligent people form a community and certain things become received wisdom in that community. It happens. YMMV.
   6210. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 11:26 AM (#5478246)
over/under:
3.5 years until the sixers win more games than the celtics
   6211. Oriole Tragic capitalizes on context Posted: June 18, 2017 at 11:50 AM (#5478251)
@jmurph or @stevegamer let me know if you are interested in #32, #54? I'd send those out to you with Knight for not much in return. Otherwise I am going to autopick those spots.

@STIGGLES I love what 76ers are doing (if for no other reason than entertainment value) but I'm taking the over. As a Laker fan, it pains me to say that.
   6212. maccoach57 Posted: June 18, 2017 at 01:11 PM (#5478268)
I am going to let Hombre post our pick; we pretty much know who it is and it will happen soon.

Boston: I expect that Ainge's plan/hope/scheme/dream is to sign Hayward and then to offer everything he's got for Anthony Davis when the moment is right, which could be as soon as the trading deadline. I think Griffin will end up staying with the Clippers. I also think that Hayward may well stay in Utah, but the internet vibe here and elsewhere appears to be that he won't.

Trade and draft: As clever as Ainge is and as talkative as Magic is, I find it unlikely that Ainge knows who the Lakers are going to take. I suspect that Ainge doesn't care, and I also suspect that he, like most people, believes that when it comes down to it, the Lakers will take Ball.

76ers: We will see. Fultz/Simmons/Embiid could be a killer core, but there are also many obvious ways that they might not end up as anything special in terms of actual results, although they are very talented. I am not much of a scout, but when I actually saw Embiid at Kansas, I thought it was clear that he was the guy in terms of talent in that draft and it is even clearer now.
   6213. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: June 18, 2017 at 01:27 PM (#5478271)
I think the widespread assumption Hayward will leave Utah is based on the presumption that Utah long ago offered him a max extension, and he never signed it. That at least demonstrates that he wants to spend a few weeks touring the country and listening to various executives and coaches fawn over him. (I would, too! It sounds fun!)

I suspect this isn't the only predraft trade the Celtics will make. If they're not preparing to acquire Butler then I actually won't be surprised if they trade down again; Jackson seems to be in high demand.
   6214. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 01:37 PM (#5478276)
I suspect this isn't the only predraft trade the Celtics will make. If they're not preparing to acquire Butler then I actually won't be surprised if they trade down again; Jackson seems to be in high demand.
3+ for 5 and 10? assuming ball, jackson and fox go 2-3-4, isaac would be a great fit for them. they could sign hayward and make a run without losing any key contributors from this year.

thomas / rozier
bradley / smart
hayward / brown
crowder / isaac
horford / zizic/yabusele/collins
   6215. Oriole Tragic capitalizes on context Posted: June 18, 2017 at 01:48 PM (#5478279)
@STIGGLES what would you have done differently (aside from picking Fultz at #1) if our Mock included this BOS/PHI picks deal?

@MHS you don't like Jackson, would you have tried to trade down from #3?
   6216. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 01:52 PM (#5478281)
@STIGGLES what would you have done differently (aside from picking Fultz at #1) if our Mock included this BOS/PHI picks deal?
i'd take ball #1
i'd have still made the trade for carroll/#23
i'd have still traded up from #23 to #16 for justin jackson
   6217. Oriole Tragic capitalizes on context Posted: June 18, 2017 at 01:57 PM (#5478283)
@hombRRE @MHS given that ^^^, who would you have taken at #2 and #3?
   6218. MHS Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:02 PM (#5478284)
I would try and trade down and draft smith or take Tatum if their wasn't value in trading down.

I actually think I'd feel much better about this trade if it wasn't top 1 protected. Maybe it was the cost of hedging lakers improvement?

Man Ainge does has some grapefruits on him doesn't he. This is such a huge bet by him.

Don't get me wrong the tiny booper Celtics fans are calling for his head which is ludicrous, but if he gets it wrong and betting against a strong consensus is a tough place to get it in, especially when your not getting a big value overlay and it's such a narrow bet.

Reeks of over confidence to me, and it's the type of thing losing organizations do.

Man do I hope he is right!
   6219. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5478285)
The BTF Lakers Brain Trust select Johnathan Motley, PF Baylor.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ) - Semi Ojeleye, PF, SMU
27. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Harry Giles, PF/C, Duke
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Johnathan Motley, PF, Baylor
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

LAL: Brook Lopez
BKNY: Luol Deng, Julius Randle
   6220. maccoach57 Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5478288)
I can't speak for Hombre, and I am just a consultant, but I would have pushed for Fultz.

Hombre and I were exchanging emails about two guys we were deciding between, and I think he has made his choice after consulting, so he will be along shortly.
   6221. maccoach57 Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:06 PM (#5478289)
Or, he will be along now.
   6222. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5478293)
I will trade 49 and 51 for any pick from now (Quaker is up, Booey next) until the guy I want gets picked.
   6223. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:23 PM (#5478294)
@hombRRE @MHS given that ^^^, who would you have taken at #2 and #3?
Ultimately, I think I'd still take Ball. Ball's court vision and passing seems to be singularly excellent, way above anyone else's anything. His shooting is a huge plus, of course, and between those two factors, I'm willing to take my chances with him.
   6224. Mike Webber Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:25 PM (#5478295)
Semi Ojeleye's dad is a partner in my wife's medical practice. I've been trying to follow where he'll go this week, but I'm not much of an NBA fan. What are you guy's seeing for him, and what are the best NBA mocks not behind a paywall? Thanks!
   6225. Oriole Tragic capitalizes on context Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5478298)
@STIGGLES what would you have done differently (aside from picking Fultz at #1) if our Mock included this BOS/PHI picks deal?
i'd take ball #1
Ultimately, I think I'd still take Ball.
@LAPHoA in this new world, Ball is off the board, because STIGGLES would have taken him at #1. Then what would you have done? Trade down? Take Fultz? Take Jackson?
   6226. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:49 PM (#5478300)
OH! Gotcha, gotcha. In that case, I'd take Jackson. Nothing against Fultz, but the Lakers need athletic wings, and I'm not sure that Fultz's skills are on par with his athleticism. For PGs, I put skills over athleticism, and vice versa for wings (obviously, you'd want both).
   6227. Voodoo Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:53 PM (#5478302)
... what are the best NBA mocks not behind a paywall?


Draft Express
   6228. Oriole Tragic capitalizes on context Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:06 PM (#5478304)
I can't speak for Hombre, and I am just a consultant, but I would have pushed for Fultz.
In that case, I'd take Jackson. Nothing against Fultz, but the Lakers need athletic wings, and I'm not sure that Fultz's skills are on par with his athleticism.
So, it looks like you guys would need to bring in tship to break the tie. :)
   6229. Mike Webber Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:15 PM (#5478307)
Thanks Voodoo
   6230. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:18 PM (#5478308)
So, it looks like you guys would need to bring in tship to break the tie. :)
rr could just do what colangelo did and hire his son to be hombre's boss after a *wink* exhaustive *nod* search that included interviewing *draws a blank* and *crickets* before ultimately settling on the best possible candidate, who also happens to share a surname and a genetic marker for diabetus.

   6231. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:23 PM (#5478310)
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources: All-Star Paul George tells Pacers he plans to leave franchise in 2018 free agency, prefers Lakers.
   6232. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5478313)
Drew Corrigan‏ @Dcorrigan50
omg MCWs replies are people thanking him and him asking "for what" LOL
   6233. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5478314)
   6234. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5478317)
I'm amused by the clamor among (non-here) Celtics fans that this is a bad idea. I've talked myself into Fultz as a good pick, but he's hardly can't miss, so this seems like a classic Belichick-style trade of a pick today for a slightly less good pick today and another good pick tomorrow. If you feel, like I do, that the Celtics should be trying mainly to acquire a transcendent player and in no specific hurry to do so, there's no downside unless you believe Fultz to be such a player. The main question for me is if Ainge is going to use the #3 pick, or flip it as part of another deal. The other thing this trade does is give them some cap flexibility if they're able to sign a max free agent. If they draft #1, Avery Bradley has to go for that to work. If they take the #3 pick, or especially if they flip that for #5 and #10, say, they have more flexibility.

So I like the trade for the Cs, and I'm excited to see Fultz next to Simmons and Embiid, though I'm also rather curious to see what falls out of this for the Cs after. Trader Danny isn't afraid of action, and there's still good chances this could turn out spectacularly for the Celtics or turn into a fiasco.
   6235. Sleepless in Munich Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5478318)
Boston: I expect that Ainge's plan/hope/scheme/dream is to sign Hayward and then to offer everything he's got for Anthony Davis when the moment is right, which could be as soon as the trading deadline.

Generally speaking, I think Ainge is looking at different scenarios of landing a superstar and tries to keep his options. He got the Celtics in a position to make a good offer to Durant in free agency one year ago, but Durant declined. He held onto the Brooklyn pick, but obviously he doesn't see a superstar talent in the draft. Now he turns the #1 pick into a future pick that might help at the deadline.

I don't follow the thought process that says:

Many teams will be competing for Hayward and it isn't certain we can get him but we do want to recruit him + Screw Horford who cares what we told him and what he thinks= profit.


Both are what is best for Boston. Hayward on a max contract is a good deal. And if you get him and Horford is happy, all is well. But if there is a time when what is best for Boston and what Horford wants differ, then yes, "Screw Horford" (and I'm not even a Boston fan). Example: If Hayward and Griffin are both willing to sign this offseason, and Sacramento offers picks for Horford, I think Boston should dump Horford. Do you think they should tell Horford and Griffin "Sorry, we made a promise to Horford."?
   6236. Quaker Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:38 PM (#5478319)
Spurs will take Josh Hart.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ) - Semi Ojeleye, PF, SMU
27. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Harry Giles, PF/C, Duke
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Johnathan Motley, PF, Baylor
29. San Antonio (Quaker) - Josh Hart, G, Villanova
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   6237. smileyy Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:45 PM (#5478323)
I had my eyes on Hart in the second round. Think he'll be a good NBA player.
   6238. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5478324)
plays like this - and there are a lot of them in fultz's highlight videos - are a big part of why i'd take lonzo ball instead of him. it should not take that much effort to score against the ####### banana slugs.

   6239. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:10 PM (#5478327)
simmons freshman year at LSU: 10.3 FTA per 40 minutes .670%
fultz freshman year at Washington: 7.5 FTA per 40 minutes .649%
saric rookie at Sixers: 5.0 FTA per 36 minutes .782%
embiid rookie at Sixers: 11.2 FTA per 36 minutes .783%

also:
Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
I've been hearing from a few places that in addition to Lakers pick there are some parameters on '19 Kings pick Cs would get from Phi.
oh, do tell...
   6240. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:21 PM (#5478331)
6238: You'll have to explain that line of thinking to me. I mean, he *does* score on the play, with three defenders collapsing, presumably unafraid of his mediocre-to-terrible teammates, after he goes by his man. Your point is that he should be able to make it look easier, by sprinting to the basket, I guess?
   6241. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:26 PM (#5478334)
I like this trade a lot less if it turns out the Kings pick is top-anything protected and it's at risk of ending up as Markelle Fultz for Josh Jackson and a couple of non-lottery picks.
   6242. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:31 PM (#5478336)
Yeah, the one thing I dislike about the trade as initially reported is the #1 protection on the Lakers pick; if the Kings pick is also protected I'll be less thrilled about the deal.
   6243. Booey Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5478338)
Dammit, Quaker. Hart was who I was planning on taking.

Need a guard, so I guess the Jazz will pick Derrick White, G Colorado.

Still can't copy and paste the whole list, sorry. Atlanta and Laser Man are up now to begin the 2nd round.
   6244. Laser Man Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:35 PM (#5478339)
Ugh - Giles and White were the two players I was looking at for #31. I'll need a few minutes to regroup...
   6245. Norcan Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5478343)
Semi Ojeleye's dad is a partner in my wife's medical practice. I've been trying to follow where he'll go this week, but I'm not much of an NBA fan. What are you guy's seeing for him, and what are the best NBA mocks not behind a paywall? Thanks!


No idea but maybe second round? Kind of tough with him being a senior aged prospect with only one season to evaluate from. I knew he did very well academically in high school and that academics were important to him but nevertheless, I was still really impressed by how well spoken he was in an interview. Possesses a very reasonable perspective I thought. I figure having that kind of head on his shoulders, along with his physical tools and long-range shooting touch, should give him a shot at a NBA career.


Kind of disappointed with the return on the Philly trade if the info out there is true. They really gave away protection for the no.1 slot? Come on. Next year's draft looks loaded as of now but still. I'm really hoping Tatum is the pick.
   6246. maccoach57 Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:44 PM (#5478344)
Your point is that he should be able to make it look easier, by sprinting to the basket, I guess?


Fultz does not appear to be an explosive jock, like Wall or Westbrook. Russell is the same way--Russell is a good shooter, but not a great one, and a good passer, but not a great one. Add that to not being an explosive athlete, and it is hard to see a path to Russell being as good as the truly elite perimeter players, although I do think he will be good. Fultz has a few markers in the numbers, like the FTR, that make him a better prospect than Russell, but he does not strike me as a WOW guy. Wall did. Ainge, I think it is safe to assume, feels the same way about Fultz or he would not have dealt the pick.
   6247. maccoach57 Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:48 PM (#5478346)
Generally speaking, I think Ainge is looking at different scenarios of landing a superstar and tries to keep his options.


Yeah, but true Top-10 superstars don't change teams that often, so IMO there are not that many "different scenarios." Also, the problem with "keeping options" is the old bird-in-the-hand thing. Among top 10 guys now, there is Paul, and maybe Davis.
   6248. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5478347)
6238: You'll have to explain that line of thinking to me. I mean, he *does* score on the play, with three defenders collapsing, presumably unafraid of his mediocre-to-terrible teammates, after he goes by his man. Your point is that he should be able to make it look easier, by sprinting to the basket, I guess?

he can make that play against the banana slugs, but against NBA defenses, that's a turnover or a blocked shot. there were four better ways to make that play: 1, go straight to the rim, absorb contact and get to the FT line; 2, find the shooter in the short corner; 3, keep the dribble going and go out the other side of the lane; 4, not get into that position in the first place since there was still 25 seconds left on the shot clock.


i don't think those plays will translate to the NBA and they make up a large part of fultz's offense.

Yeah, the one thing I dislike about the trade as initially reported is the #1 protection on the Lakers pick; if the Kings pick is also protected I'll be less thrilled about the deal.
luka doncic insurance.
   6249. Laser Man Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:53 PM (#5478348)
The Hawks go back to UCLA and take Ike Anigbogu, 6-10 C. Anigbogu is only 18 years old, can run the floor well, and will help right away on defense and on the offensive glass. He still is very raw offensively, but I think is good value at #31.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ) - Semi Ojeleye, PF, SMU
27. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Harry Giles, PF/C, Duke
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Johnathan Motley, PF, Baylor
29. San Antonio (Quaker) - Josh Hart, G, Villanova
30. Utah (Booey) - Derrick White, G, Colorado

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man) - Ike Anigbogu, C, UCLA
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

LAL: Brook Lopez
BKNY: Luol Deng, Julius Randle
   6250. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5478350)
6248: That was well put. Not sure I totally agree, but I can see that.

6246: Fultz is definitely not Wall or Westbrook, but then neither are James Harden or Dwyane Wade or Damian Lillard. Odds are against Fultz being quite as good as Harden or Wade, of course, and he may never be as good as Lillard, either. But I don't see his lack of Westbrook-like athleticism as an insuperable obstacle to stardom or even, in the very best outcome, superstardom.
   6251. maccoach57 Posted: June 18, 2017 at 05:30 PM (#5478353)
James Harden or Dwyane Wade or Damian Lillard.


Harden is bigger, especially through the lower body, than Fultz is. Harden and Wade's college stats are incomplete, but we have some of them. Harden's unparalleled ability to get to the line was apparent immediately--he had a.602 FTR as a freshman at Arizona State. Harden was well ahead of Fultz in TS% as a freshman. Wade was only at .338 in FTR as a freshman, but he jumped to .497 as a sophomore. He was also well ahead of Fultz in WS/40 as a freshman. Wade was 22 as an NBA rookie, but he put up a 17.6 PER. He put up a 23.1 and made the All-Star team in his second year at 23. In his third year, he was at 27.6 and Miami won the NBA title. Lillard, yeah, I think Fultz can be as good as Lillard, although as a different type of player.

These are basically the same arguments that I have had with Lakers fans who want Russell to be a Top-10 player and are trying to convince themselves it is still possible. Russell is not as big as Harden and gets to the line less than half as much. He is not as explosive as Wall or Westbrook, and he doesn't shoot like Curry or pass like Paul. He can't generate shots like Wade. Yes, those are very high standards, but when you pick a guy at 2 you are hoping he can be a guy like that.

Fultz may get there, but I wouldn't bet on it, and Ainge apparently isn't betting on it, either.

   6252. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 05:47 PM (#5478354)
6248: That was well put. Not sure I totally agree, but I can see that.

it's easy for me to point that out after the fact, but the thing is, great PGs see those things in real time and they have the instincts to make the right play at the right time.

fultz's instincts lean more towards scoring guard. he gets assists because he always has the ball, but his instinct and his skillset is pure scorer. in a sense, the sixers are a great fit for him, since we have simmons to create and embiid to destroy, but because of the reservations i have about fultz, i'm not convinced that fit goes both ways.


markelle fultz is very good at making bad shots - mid range jumpers, spinning floaters, whirling one handed reverse layups - but what i love about lonzo ball is that he only takes good shots and he creates a ton of great shots.

shot selection can be coached and improved, but my preference is to the take the guy who's shot selection instincts are already honed to an elite degree.
   6253. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 05:50 PM (#5478356)
Fultz does not appear to be an explosive jock, like Wall or Westbrook. Russell is the same way--Russell is a good shooter, but not a great one, and a good passer, but not a great one. Add that to not being an explosive athlete, and it is hard to see a path to Russell being as good as the truly elite perimeter players, although I do think he will be good. Fultz has a few markers in the numbers, like the FTR, that make him a better prospect than Russell, but he does not strike me as a WOW guy. Wall did. Ainge, I think it is safe to assume, feels the same way about Fultz or he would not have dealt the pick.
lonzo ball has taken a lot of slag because he "lacks athleticism", but fultz has some questions, too. he may be an elite athlete according to SPARQ, but there are a lot of plays where it does not show up.
   6254. JJ1986 Posted: June 18, 2017 at 05:53 PM (#5478357)
what are the best NBA mocks not behind a paywall? Thanks!
Draft Express is invaluable. I've also started following Sam Vecenie this year. His newest mock is here.
   6255. Quaker Posted: June 18, 2017 at 06:05 PM (#5478358)
My pick came down to Hart vs. Bradley and ultimately I decided I could trust Hart more--he seems like a worker--even though Pelton's projections have him a few spots lower. Bradley seems like a taller Kenneth Faried. For 29th, I'm sure that's a good value, but I'm reluctant to take any big who can't either protect the rim or shoot 3's.
   6256. Oriole Tragic capitalizes on context Posted: June 18, 2017 at 06:12 PM (#5478360)
Actually, taking a player I want is easier than figuring out who to autopick. PHO selects Thomas Bryant, Indiana. 7'6" wingspan (!), 38% 3P% (in limited attempts), (BLK+STL)/40 > 3, 73% FT%.

SAC on the clock.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ) - Semi Ojeleye, PF, SMU
27. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Harry Giles, PF/C, Duke
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Johnathan Motley, PF, Baylor
29. San Antonio (Quaker) - Josh Hart, G, Villanova
30. Utah (Booey) - Derrick White, G, Colorado

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man) - Ike Anigbogu, C, UCLA
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Thomas Bryant, F/C, Indiana
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

LAL: Brook Lopez
BKNY: Luol Deng, Julius Randle
   6257. #6bid has 0 to 2 technicals Posted: June 18, 2017 at 06:12 PM (#5478361)
STIGGLES you've said "banana slugs" twice now but if it's UC Fullerton you're talking about, the first play in that video, they have the relatively boring nickname of Titans.

The Banana Slugs are UC Santa Cruz's moniker. The other Cal school with the colorful nickname is the UC Irvine Anteaters.

(My apologies if Fultz played against UCSC elsewhere in that video, I scanned it quickly. Seems unlikely UCSC would play the Huskies, I was honestly surprised to find out they even fielded a team.)
   6258. smileyy Posted: June 18, 2017 at 06:33 PM (#5478364)
It's Orlando and Votto on the clock; I'm up after that.
   6259. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2017 at 06:40 PM (#5478369)
Pritchard has yet to show an inclination to engage the Lakers, but has discussed deals with several teams – including Cleveland – in which the expectation of teams would be that George is a “one-year rental.” It is unclear how robust those offers to Indiana will ultimately be, given that teams believe he will sign with the Lakers next summer. So far, Indiana is asking for a substantial package of talent and draft picks for George, league sources said. Discussions could extend until Thursday’s NBA draft – or beyond.
   6260. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: June 18, 2017 at 06:53 PM (#5478377)
I mean... approaching it with cold logic, the Pacers should take the best offer they can get for George before the season and tank it, right?
   6261. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2017 at 07:04 PM (#5478381)
Probably. I think Bird has said in the past that the Pacers, as a franchise, are not in a position to tank, that they need to put a competitive team on the floor to survive?

Anyway, per Shelburne on Twitter: "For those asking about PG, the Lakers have shown no inclination yet of surrendering anything for a player they can get in free agency."
   6262. PASTE does not get put on waivers in August Posted: June 18, 2017 at 07:43 PM (#5478391)
Yeah, but the Pacers are going to suck in 2018-19 no matter what they do. It might be a wiser strategic move to swallow some nasty medicine right now and set the franchise up to return to respectability sooner.

I love me some Myles Turner, was high on him before the 2015 draft and have remained high on him throughout his career, but if he's your best player you're probably losing at least 50 games unless you're unusually deep.
   6263. Thok Posted: June 18, 2017 at 07:58 PM (#5478396)
Semi Ojeleye's dad is a partner in my wife's medical practice. I've been trying to follow where he'll go this week, but I'm not much of an NBA fan. What are you guy's seeing for him, and what are the best NBA mocks not behind a paywall? Thanks!


He's probably a late first rounder. Honestly, I'm a touch regretting not taking him over Terrence Ferguson at 21 (both fit the sort of thing OKC is looking for, but Ojeleye is probably a bit more NBA-ready, at the cost of maybe having a lower ceiling).
   6264. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:07 PM (#5478403)
Orlando takes Jordan Bell, Oregon. Similar player to my last pick, Wilson from Michigan, but Bell may be more ready to play from Day 1 (22 years old, and guarded people all over the court in the NCAAs).

SAC on the clock.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ) - Semi Ojeleye, PF, SMU
27. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Harry Giles, PF/C, Duke
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Johnathan Motley, PF, Baylor
29. San Antonio (Quaker) - Josh Hart, G, Villanova
30. Utah (Booey) - Derrick White, G, Colorado

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man) - Ike Anigbogu, C, UCLA
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Thomas Bryant, F/C, Indiana
33. Orlando (Votto) - Jordan Bell, F, Oregon
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

LAL: Brook Lopez
BKNY: Luol Deng, Julius Randle
   6265. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:12 PM (#5478406)
what are the best NBA mocks not behind a paywall?


I really like NBAdraft.net. Mock drafts and video highlights for most first-round prospects. I like the "possible NBA comps" feature too.
   6266. covelli chris p Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:20 PM (#5478407)
t's not just the character concerns that have me down on Josh Jackson. I don't like his game much, either. He'll need a lot of improvement to become an NBA star, and that's where the character concerns make me pessimistic that he's going to put in the work and focus his life on basketball.
this is spot on. If you want to project a guy based on tools or raw athleticism you need to see the work ethic bc that is what is going to get him there.
   6267. Thok Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:21 PM (#5478409)
Orlando takes Jordan Bell, Oregon.


Votto, you're half a round too late to take Jordan Bell. Dandy took him at 15.
   6268. covelli chris p Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:24 PM (#5478410)
ou think they'd have waited to work out the guy, have a meeting with him, e
and waited until draft day to complete the deal.
   6269. smileyy Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:25 PM (#5478411)
Sacramento selects Edmond Sumner because I'm a gigantic homer and I think that if he retains his explosiveness after recovering from knee and shoulder surgery, he'll be a cromulent NBA ayer. I hope that whatever team he lands on can fix his jump shot so he's not just a taller faster Semaj Christon.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ) - Semi Ojeleye, PF, SMU
27. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Harry Giles, PF/C, Duke
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Johnathan Motley, PF, Baylor
29. San Antonio (Quaker) - Josh Hart, G, Villanova
30. Utah (Booey) - Derrick White, G, Colorado

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man) - Ike Anigbogu, C, UCLA
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Thomas Bryant, F/C, Indiana
33. Orlando (Votto) - Jordan Bell, F, Oregon
34. Sacramento (smileyy) - Edmond Sumner, G, Xavier
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

LAL: Brook Lopez
BKNY: Luol Deng, Julius Randle
   6270. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:36 PM (#5478412)
####, make it Frank Jackson from Duke then.

I'm up again and will take Caleb Swanigan, F, Purdue.

Updated/corrected: TFTIO/Toronto is up.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ) - Semi Ojeleye, PF, SMU
27. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Harry Giles, PF/C, Duke
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Johnathan Motley, PF, Baylor
29. San Antonio (Quaker) - Josh Hart, G, Villanova
30. Utah (Booey) - Derrick White, G, Colorado

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man) - Ike Anigbogu, C, UCLA
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Thomas Bryant, F/C, Indiana
33. Orlando (Votto) - Frank Jackson, G, Duke
34. Sacramento (smileyy) - Edmond Sumner, G, Xavier
35. Orlando (Votto) - Caleb Swanigan, F, Purdue
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

LAL: Brook Lopez
BKNY: Luol Deng, Julius Randle
   6271. No, TFTIO is the puppet Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:50 PM (#5478414)
With the 36th pick, Toronto takes Jonathan Jeanne, from FRANCE. Perfect Raptors style draft n stash.

Boston is on the clock.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ) - Semi Ojeleye, PF, SMU
27. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Harry Giles, PF/C, Duke
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Johnathan Motley, PF, Baylor
29. San Antonio (Quaker) - Josh Hart, G, Villanova
30. Utah (Booey) - Derrick White, G, Colorado

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man) - Ike Anigbogu, C, UCLA
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Thomas Bryant, F/C, Indiana
33. Orlando (Votto) - Frank Jackson, G, Duke
34. Sacramento (smileyy) - Edmond Sumner, G, Xavier
35. Orlando (Votto) - Caleb Swanigan, F, Purdue
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO) - Jonathan Jeanne C/F, Nancy (France)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

LAL: Brook Lopez
BKNY: Luol Deng, Julius Randle
   6272. MHS Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:17 PM (#5478419)
TFTIO - my understanding is he isn't eligible. Unfortunate health situation.
   6273. MHS Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:19 PM (#5478420)
http://insider.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19669555/trade-grades-boston-celtics-philadelphia-76ers-draft-picks-swap-nba

Pelton grades in the Philly, Celtics deal. B for 76ers, B+ For C's.
Seems like massive grade inflation to me, but that's true for most evaluations I think.
   6274. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:29 PM (#5478423)
Zach Lowe on Twitter: "Sense from teams talking to IND is that Pacers intend to move fast on a PG deal. These situations are always fluid, but that is the general take right now."
   6275. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:39 PM (#5478424)
TFTIO - my understanding is he isn't eligible. Unfortunate health situation.
marfin syndrome, the same disease that ended isaiah austin's career a few years ago.
   6276. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:48 PM (#5478428)
####, make it Frank Jackson from Duke then.
no can do; the sixers are the only team that's allowed to draft jacksons this year.
   6277. aberg Posted: June 18, 2017 at 10:04 PM (#5478431)
I'm less down on the sixers end of that trade after learning the actual pick protections. Still wouldn't have done it.

Also, it's a dumb idea, but the homer in me wants the wolves to offer lavine and #7 for PG.
   6278. Norcan Posted: June 18, 2017 at 10:27 PM (#5478436)
As far as I can tell, the Celtics have been able to workout/meet Tatum but not Ball or Jackson because those two have refused. As far as I can remember, the only domestic player Ainge has selected without a workout was Gerald Green and he said after his selection that the upside was too high to pass up on, as Green was once considered to be a high lottery selection. If what a Boston globe article said is true and the Celtics traded down because they think there is little difference between Fultz, Ball, Jackson and Tatum, then maybe Tatum has the edge. I can only hope so. I like Ball and Jackson just fine but I really want the Celtics to get another player besides Thomas who can create his own shot.
   6279. stevegamer Posted: June 18, 2017 at 10:40 PM (#5478439)
6211 @jmurph or @stevegamer let me know if you are interested in #32, #54? I'd send those out to you with Knight for not much in return. Otherwise I am going to autopick those spots.


I would've done that easily for 32 & 54 sending Asik back, who is better than "not much" for Knight. It's a positional fit thing.
Would still do it for just 54, since you like the guy got at 32.

To sum up the offer:

To NO: Brandon Knight, pick #54
To PHX: Omer Asik

Accept if you like it enough.


   6280. Oriole Tragic capitalizes on context Posted: June 18, 2017 at 11:01 PM (#5478441)
@stevegamer: thanks for getting back to me. I like it enough for Ajinca instead of Asik. That work for you?
   6281. covelli chris p Posted: June 18, 2017 at 11:09 PM (#5478444)
If what a Boston globe article said is true and the Celtics traded down because they think there is little difference between Fultz, Ball, Jackson and Tatum
it's either this, or they have a trade lined up already if they don't get their guy. or, maybe regardless.

, then maybe Tatum has the edge. I can only hope so. I like Ball and Jackson just fine but I really want the Celtics to get another player besides Thomas who can create his own shot.
tatum is my preference. but i have no idea about any of these guys.
   6282. stevegamer Posted: June 18, 2017 at 11:43 PM (#5478447)
Oriole:

I guess I'd do it for Ajinca if you'd also take Poindexter off our books. He's making 3.8M in 17-18, then nothing further.
   6283. Oriole Tragic capitalizes on context Posted: June 18, 2017 at 11:54 PM (#5478449)
@stevegamer: I'll do that in exchange for keeping my #54. Poindexter blew out his knee and may not play next year.

NOP: Knight
PHO: Ajinca, Poindexter

This deal is done upon your approval.
   6284. stevegamer Posted: June 19, 2017 at 12:32 AM (#5478455)
@stevegamer: I'll do that in exchange for keeping my #54. Poindexter blew out his knee and may not play next year.

NOP: Knight
PHO: Ajinca, Poindexter

This deal is done upon your approval.


I think I want #54 in the deal. Pelicans would be eating an awful lot of cap in Knight, and not giving up much cap at all in return. Ajinca is signed for shorter term, and for far less than Knight. Considering how you valued Bledsoe earlier, I think it's not unreasonable for the Pelicans to demand #54.

You're free to decline, obviously.
   6285. maccoach57 Posted: June 19, 2017 at 01:11 AM (#5478460)
George and LA: Both the league and the entertainment business have changed a lot since the days of Showtime and then the Shaq signing, but it is still LA and they are still the Lakers, and I think George is the kind of local guy who would really like the bells and whistles that will come if he signs here: going on Kimmel as a hero, celebs following him on Twitter, Nicholson coming back to sit courtside more often, pix with Denzel and Leo, living in a mansion in Mailbu, the billboards with pix of him and Kobe saying The Torch Has Been Passed etc etc etc.

But the problems would come when he had to play basketball with the team the Lakers have. The Lakers were dead last in the NBA last year in both DRTG and point differential, they lack a superstar talent, they are saddled with the Deng and Mozgov deals, and they are still down what will almost certainly be a lottery pick. Jim Buss and Mitch Kupchak got kicked in the balls by The Veto, and also made a lengthy series of short-term decisions between 2009 and 2016, and only one worked as intended: signing Ron Artest. The rest were either misfires, backfires, or dumpster fires, and the team is still deep in a crater trying to dig out of the wreckage and resurface.

George may not understand that--he has the same agent as Randle and Russell, and he may think that they are coming stars. George may also think that he is one of the 3-5 best players in the world and that he can turn the team around. Or he may understand all of it and doesn't give a shitt because he just wants to be a Laker, period. But like I said, if he comes here, he will be the first big-time FA to join a really bad team.

George for this year: if league executives actually believe that George will join the Lakers in July of 2018 no matter how this year goes for him and no matter what the Lakers roster looks like, then I think that there are only two teams for which it would be worth giving up real stuff to get George for one year, and they are obvious: Cleveland and San Antonio. I would add Boston but since their own GM does not appear to see them that way, that point is moot.

However, the real world is complicated, and people change their minds, so I think it is worth it for several second and third-tier contenders and even borderline playoff teams to consider trying to get George and seeing if they can get him to stay: Washington, Toronto, Milwaukee,Houston, LA Clippers, and Utah. Also, I would think about it if I ran Atlanta, Miami, Denver, or Portland. I realize that there would be cap and personnel issues with almost all of these teams, but players and contracts can be moved.
   6286. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: June 19, 2017 at 01:34 AM (#5478461)
But like I said, if he comes here, he will be the first big-time FA to join a really bad team.


LeBron James joined a 33-49 Cleveland team that had gone 24-58 the previous year (sure, they had some young talent, but Irving and Wiggins vs Russell, Ingram, and Ball does not seem too far off). Like George, he wanted to go home. George and LeBron are, of course, pretty close.

Melo, also going home, forced a trade to a team that went 29-53 the full year before he joined, with the same playbook as George here ("everyone knew" he was going to sign there the following year).

Marquee free agents of course don't switch teams that often, they seem to get traded before they leave, but there are cases.
   6287. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: June 19, 2017 at 01:41 AM (#5478462)
And it seems like it'd work like the classic big 3 plan (one homegrown, one free agent, one trade). Say you sign George as a FA, Ball develops as your homegrown, surely you could trade Russell and Ingram for someone like DeMarcus Cousins or DeAndre Jordan (probably even get some change in the process). Can you win a championship with George/Ball/Cousins-or-Jordan?

Well, probably not, but the problem there is that Paul George is not quite that great. But from his perspective... this is the guy who demands the last shot even though he is 1-for-31 or whatever it was in that setting, so he's probably not going to see that as the main problem. And, of course, the guy has dragged a bunch of basically anonymous players into the playoffs the last couple years.
   6288. maccoach57 Posted: June 19, 2017 at 01:45 AM (#5478463)
While you are technically right I suppose, IMO any comps involving James are irrelevant: there is only one LeBron James. And that comp is especially irrelevant since trading Wiggins for Love to set up a new Big Three was part of that set-up.

I mentioned Anthony previously but forgot to do so this time. That said, looking at how things have gone for Anthony in New York sort of supports my point, although that almost certainly would not stop George from coming here if he wants to. What happened with Anthony should be a lesson for the Lakers FO if not for George; they probably should not squander their limited assets on George at this time.
   6289. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: June 19, 2017 at 01:52 AM (#5478464)
While you are technically right I suppose, IMO any comps involving James are irrelevant: there is only one LeBron James. And that comp is especially irrelevant since trading Wiggins for Love to set up a new Big Three was part of that set-up.


If George demanded as part of the signing that the Lakers trade Russell/Ingram for his favorite second-tier star, I imagine they would do it (whether or not it's right, as you point out in the Melo case).

There is only one LeBron James for sure and what LeBron does is no guarantee on what George will do, but part of that statement is that LeBron can choose any of the 30 teams to go to, and he chose to go to a bad team because it was home, so to say that no big-time FA has done this when the biggest-time FA has feels a bit off to me. At minimum, it shows that it's at least a plausible story.

ETA: Also, Dwyane Wade recently also joined his hometown team that had not made the playoffs the previous year. KG joined the then-terrible Wolves in his swan song. Pierce came to hang out with Doc on LAC. Yes, George is in his prime, which is different than a bunch of old guys wanting a nostalgic experience. But going home would motivate a lot of people, not just basketball players.
   6290. maccoach57 Posted: June 19, 2017 at 01:57 AM (#5478465)
Say you sign George as a FA, Ball develops as your homegrown, surely you could trade Russell and Ingram for someone like DeMarcus Cousins or DeAndre Jordan (probably even get some change in the process)


Ingram was picked #2, is 19 years old, and had a 8.5 PER last year. Russell was picked #2 and at the time was considered about even with Okafor by many and is now by consensus behind Porzingis. OTOH, Irving and Wiggins were both #1 overalls and heavily hyped. Irving had a 21.4 PER as a rookie, and had made the ASG twice before James came back to Cleveland. Love was a 25-year-old three-time All-Star when Cleveland acquired him for Wiggins, and there were projections that had the 2014-15 Cavs winning 65-70 games.

So, no, not buying, although as you point out and as I alluded to when I pointed out that Randle and Russell share an agent with George, George may see it the way you are drawing it up. But it isn't like that--it would be much more like Carmelo Anthony and the Knicks.
   6291. maccoach57 Posted: June 19, 2017 at 02:13 AM (#5478466)
Kamenetzky Brothers Retweeted

Bobby Marks‏Verified account @BobbyMarks42 11h11 hours ago

Lakers right at $15.6m in room (18-19) when you factor in their 2 first rd. picks this year and renouncing free agents except for Randle.

Kamenetzky Brothers Retweeted

Bobby Marks‏Verified account @BobbyMarks42 11h11 hours ago

Keep in mind that the Lakers do not have max money ($30.6) next summer to sign Paul George outright.
   6292. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 19, 2017 at 02:50 AM (#5478468)
Keep in mind that the Lakers do not have max money ($30.6) next summer to sign Paul George outright.
A couple of smart guys managed to clear up enough room to do that in an alternate universe. The Lakers should hire those guys.
   6293. Oriole Tragic capitalizes on context Posted: June 19, 2017 at 04:01 AM (#5478469)
@stevegamer: I already have Bender and (unfortunately) Chandler, plus the RFA rights to Len, plus I just drafted a 6'10", 240-pounder in Bryant, so, I'm not hurting for bigs. If I took on Ajinca, I'd probably have to renounce Len.

Plus, I'd be carrying Poindexter's blown-up knee and I'd be down to two PGs after moving Knight. I need the pick or a backup PG coming back.

Before I let the experts talk me out of it, I was getting a first-round pick and a guard who can at least play in the deal for Bledsoe.

If I have to deal #54, then I respectfully decline.
   6294. Oriole Tragic capitalizes on context Posted: June 19, 2017 at 04:16 AM (#5478471)
As a general aside (meaning not directed at any one person, in particular), it's weird to me that moving Bledsoe in a deal including the #23 would be such an atrocity for PHO, but Knight isn't worth having unless a #54 comes with him. I don't see the delta between the two players as quite that extreme.
   6295. MHS Posted: June 19, 2017 at 07:54 AM (#5478479)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO) - Jonathan Jeanne C/F, Nancy (France)


Unless anyone objects in the next hour or so, I'm going to give TFTIO until about 1:30 EST to repick, before I select. I'm going to be mostly away from about 9 est until about 1:30.

   6296. No, TFTIO is the puppet Posted: June 19, 2017 at 08:08 AM (#5478481)
Nuts, I'll pick again. Sorry about the delay here.
   6297. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: June 19, 2017 at 08:10 AM (#5478482)
"One of these guys is dead."
"Cross him off, then."
   6298. MHS Posted: June 19, 2017 at 08:22 AM (#5478484)
Also, if anyone is interested in 53 and 56 for a pick in the next few, I'd do that.
   6299. 2 people are better than STIGGLES; both are me Posted: June 19, 2017 at 09:23 AM (#5478496)
hey utah, rodney hood?

current assets:
G: jerryd bayless, tj mcconnell
W: josh jackson, robert covington, demarre carroll, dario saric, timothe luwawu, justin jackson, furkan korkmaz, justin anderson
B: joel embiid, ed davis, jahlil okafor
all of the above: ben simmons

picks left: #38, #39, #46
   6300. AROM Posted: June 19, 2017 at 09:57 AM (#5478505)
they are saddled with the Deng and Mozgov deals


That's the part that just kills me. They weren't good, and almost everyone knew it at the time. These are the kinds of players that good teams sign for the veteran minimum to fill out their bench. Sure, the Lakers weren't a good team, so they had to pay a bit more. Fine, offer them the money, but make it a one year deal. If anyone wanted to top that Lakers should have passed since comparable players were, are, and will continue to be available for chump change.
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