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Wednesday, November 01, 2017

OT - November* 2017 College Football thread

The longest month.


* 30 days hath November, except in the college football thread where it runs through Championship Week.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 01, 2017 at 09:48 AM | 182 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: college football, off-topic

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   101. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 11, 2017 at 06:38 PM (#5574568)
Kelly Bryant avoids the goat horns when his third fumble of the game -- first was lost inside FSU's five and second turned goal-to-go from the one into a field goal -- is immediately followed by a Blackman interception.
   102. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 11, 2017 at 07:12 PM (#5574573)
Nick Fitzgerald with two receivers behind the Alabama defense on the first play of the game, and he doesn't hit either.
   103. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 11, 2017 at 07:33 PM (#5574576)
*cowbell*
   104. Mike Webber Posted: November 11, 2017 at 07:47 PM (#5574578)
I didn't even make it to halftime at the WVU @ KSU game. The Ratio of Wet X Times >= Quality of Play by K-State.
The WVU did a nice job pressuring Thompson - KSU's red shirt freshman, third string QB.
With the loss today, and remaining games at OK St and home vs Iowa State, I think KSU's chances at a 6-6 record for a bowl are done. Now maybe they get one of the 5-7 slots, but ugh.
   105. Mike Webber Posted: November 11, 2017 at 07:51 PM (#5574580)
So it wasn't this week, but it was this game last year - Texas at Kansas - that I made a couple of comments that made Spivey mad. I regret that, I always liked him. But here I go again, How has KU scored 17 points in the first half AND turned the ball over four times?
   106. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 11, 2017 at 08:06 PM (#5574581)
Notre Dame should play Pitt and BC every year, and its other three ACC games should consist of a four-year rotation through the other 12 teams. The way it's being done now is dumb.
   107. Meatwad in mourning Posted: November 11, 2017 at 09:27 PM (#5574589)
Nd is currently shitting the bed.
   108. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 11, 2017 at 10:06 PM (#5574595)
6:30 left in a tie game, and Clanga punts on 4th-and-3 from the Alabama 42. Into the end zone, naturally.
   109. Mike A Posted: November 11, 2017 at 10:09 PM (#5574596)
That weak punt decision might have cost MSU a chance at the game. You have a chance to beat #1 (Ok, technically #2, but yeah), you take it.

Drives me crazy when Jimbo Fisher punts from the opponents' 40ish yard line - probably cost FSU the Miami game - it just makes so little sense.
   110. Mike A Posted: November 11, 2017 at 10:13 PM (#5574598)
And of course Alabama donks the field goal. MSU lives!
   111. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 11, 2017 at 10:21 PM (#5574601)
What the #### are you bringing the house for on 3rd-and-15? Die in a ####### fire, Grantham.
   112. Mike A Posted: November 11, 2017 at 10:26 PM (#5574604)
Pretty frustrated by Miss St's coaching. They were basically playing for overtime instead of trying to win the game.

Pretty sure everybody in the country knew that tactic wouldn't work against Alabama.
   113. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 11, 2017 at 10:29 PM (#5574605)
####### college interference rule. It allows you to tackle a guy with impunity on a Hail Mary because it just results in a second shorter Hail Mary.
   114. Mike Webber Posted: November 11, 2017 at 10:51 PM (#5574609)
I didn't see Clemson today, I know they pulled away late. Anyone think OU leapfrogs them with their win over TCU?
   115. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 11, 2017 at 10:52 PM (#5574610)
Replacement level for college coaching is, uh, pretty low, isn't it?
   116. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 11, 2017 at 10:54 PM (#5574611)

I didn't see Clemson today, I know they pulled away late. Anyone think OU leapfrogs them with their win over TCU?


Almost 100% chance, I would say. Probably Miami too (though that's less relevant to Clemson's longterm fortunes). The committee has not hesitated to revise their priors due to wins over highly ranked teams.
   117. Mike Webber Posted: November 11, 2017 at 11:05 PM (#5574613)
Kansas Has the 2nd Longest Road Losing streak at any level

Heading into their Week 11 matchup with Texas, woebegone Kansas was tied with Div. II Western Colorado State (1926-36) for the second-longest road losing streak at any level of NCAA football at 44 in a row. Heading out, that streak is now at 45 straight as the Longhorns went home with a 42-27 win in Austin.

Up next on the docket? FCS Idaho State, which lost 48 in a row from 2006-2014. They could tie Idaho State’s mark against Baylor Sept. 22 next season, with a chance to set a new standard Oct.6 in Morgantown against West Virginia.

For the record, KU’s last win away from Memorial Stadium came in September of 2009 — 2009!!! — against UTEP. The last road win against a Power Five foe? In October of 2008 — 2008!!! — against Iowa State. Taking it back even further, they haven’t beaten a non-conference Power Five opponent on the road since winning at Oregon State in Corvallis in the 1992 season opener. In fairness, there have only been a handful of such games since, but still.


   118. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 11, 2017 at 11:51 PM (#5574615)
By the way... tOSU is totally making the playoffs right?

-- Alabama wins out (seems likely)
-- ACC champ (Clemson or Miami)
-- Big 12 champ Oklahoma (if not, it's probably even easier)

If tOSU wins the Big 10, which also seems like a good bet, who is going ahead of them other than the above 3? You could make a case for ACC champ game loser or what is a 2-loss Georgia in this scenario, but the committee likes conference champions. I think OSU would beat a 2-loss Pac 12 champ -- I expect them to pass USC and Washington this week, and beating Wisconsin will be a better win than the Pac 12 championship game.

It's kind of a fluke that we haven't yet had a 2 loss playoff team, this looks like the year and I think it's the Buckeyes.
   119. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 12, 2017 at 12:22 AM (#5574618)
Grantham's call on that decisive 3rd-and-15 was so stupid that having two hours to digest it has only made me more apoplectic.

Rushing eight -- eight! -- is insane to begin with, but giving an 11-yard cushion to the only guy the opposing quarterback ever throws to elevates it to Howard-Hughes-collecting-his-urine levels. The goal of sending eight -- EIGHT! -- is to force an immediate throw, so how on earth do you not contest that in any way? Don't wanna get burned for a big gain by pressing? Well, because you've sent eight -- EIGHT! -- Ridley's left in space with one defender to outrun across the field, so you're at huge risk of a long gain, anyway. At least pressing would've required a contested throw and catch.
   120. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: November 12, 2017 at 12:36 PM (#5574666)
Brady Hoke will be the interim head coach at Tennessee. My thoughts and prayers are with the Volunteer State today.
   121. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 13, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5575056)
updated 57i66135 CFP projection:
alabama - in with anything less than 2 losses.
clemson/miami - whoever wins the ACC is in; the other team still has a chance to slip in the backdoor
oklahoma/georgia/auburn - win and in.
wisconsin/washington - win out, still screwed.


and yes, i think a 2-loss SEC champion auburn gets into the playoffs over a 13-0 wisconsin if it comes to that.
   122. SouthSideRyan Posted: November 13, 2017 at 01:35 PM (#5575171)
I'd have to think 2 loss Clemson has no chance.

Everyone hates on Wisconsin's schedule, but I don't really get the math of 13-0 with wins over Ohio State & Michigan being worse than 11-1 with wins over LSU and Miss St. and a loss to Auburn.
   123. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5575205)
I'd have to think 2 loss Clemson has no chance.
i think they'd be in if:
alabama wins out (eliminating georgia/auburn)
wisconsin or oklahoma loses a game

the pac 12 is dead. notre dame is dead. if the big 12 or the big ten stumbles, the door is open for clemson. maybe a 2-loss TCU or a 2-loss ohio state gets the benefit of the doubt over 2-loss clemson, but i don't think so.
Everyone hates on Wisconsin's schedule, but I don't really get the math of 13-0 with wins over Ohio State & Michigan being worse than 11-1 with wins over LSU and Miss St. and a loss to Auburn.

alabama passes the eye test; wisconsin still hasn't played a game that anyone has seen.
   124. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:12 PM (#5575221)
wisconsin still hasn't played a game that anyone has seen.

The presumptive 13-0 Wisconsin has wins over Michigan and OSU that lots of people will have seen.
   125. dlf Posted: November 13, 2017 at 02:17 PM (#5575225)
-- Alabama wins out (seems likely)


After lackluster games against both LSU and MSU, and some injury concerns on the defensive side of the ball, I would think that anyone giving 'Bama better than 60:40 odds against Auburn on the road and Georgia at a neutral (at best) site, is being overly optimistic about the Tides' chances.

I am, however, impressed with Jalen Hurts' improvement. Last year, and for the first couple of games this year, he looked at one receiver - and at that only briefly - before looking to run. Now, he can go through some progression on his reads and when he scrambles, it is often horizontal while at least on some plays continuing to look downfield. Add in an offensive coordinator who believes that it is not against the rules to throw the ball between the hash marks (if only they had done that with OJ Howard before he went to Tampa) and he's looking dramatically better this season.
   126. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:40 PM (#5576381)
 1 Alabama                    Mercer            @ Auburn
 2 Clemson                    The Citadel       @ South Carolina
 3 Miami (FL)                 Virginia          @ Pittsburgh
 4 Oklahoma                   @ Kansas          West Virginia
 5 Wisconsin                  Michigan          @ Minnesota
 6 Auburn                     LA-Monroe         Alabama
 7 Georgia                    Kentucky          @ Georgia Tech
 8 Notre Dame                 Navy              @ Stanford
 9 Ohio State                 Illinois          @ Michigan
10 Penn State                 Nebraska          @ Maryland
11 USC                        UCLA              ---
12 TCU                        @ Texas Tech      Baylor
13 Oklahoma State             Kansas State      Kansas
14 Washington State           ---               @ Washington
15 Central Florida            @ Temple          South Florida
16 Mississippi State          @ Arkansas        Ole Miss
17 Michigan State             Maryland          @ Rutgers
18 Washington                 Utah              Washington State
19 NC State                   @ Wake Forest     North Carolina
20 LSU                        @ Tennessee       Texas A&M
21 Memphis                    SMU               East Carolina
22 Stanford                   California        Notre Dame
23 Northwestern               Minnesota         @ Illinois
24 Michigan                   @ Wisconsin       Ohio State
25 Boise State                Air Force         @ Fresno State

Clemson no. 2 because of quality wins on the road (Miami's best is 4-6 Duke) and the most top-25 wins.
   127. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:07 PM (#5576389)
Interesting. Was wrong about Clemson getting jumped by Oklahoma and Miami, but still think off of this data that Ohio State is going to make the playoffs with 2 losses. They should jump ND with a win over Wisconsin, Alabama beating Auburn and Georgia would knock them below tOSU, and the only remaining question (since they beat Wisconsin in this scenario) is whether the Clemson/Miami loser would stay in ahead of them, which I think is a no. They are stuck behind OK even with another OK loss because of head to head, but if both win out, I don't think TCU or OK State can jump ahead of them. I suppose you could get in some weird state where the Big 12 winner "has" to be ahead of Oklahoma and Oklahoma "has" to be ahead of Ohio State due to conf title / head to head if all of those teams have 2 losses.
   128. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:36 PM (#5576400)
the only remaining question (since they beat Wisconsin in this scenario) is whether the Clemson/Miami loser would stay in ahead of them, which I think is a no.
i'm pretty sure a 1-loss miami gets in over a 2-loss tosu, unless they get blown out by clemson.

i think it's 60/40 that a 2-loss clemson gets in over a 2-loss tosu.
   129. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 01:24 AM (#5576439)
still think off of this data that Ohio State is going to make the playoffs with 2 losses.


Why in the world would that happen? The B1G has sent three teams to the playoff in its existence, and two of them got utterly humiliated in first round games. At some point people are going to have to deal with the fact that winning that conference shouldn't be an automatic ticket to anything. Especially if the other 2-loss team happens to be the reigning national champion.
   130. Ithaca2323 Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5576552)
The presumptive 13-0 Wisconsin has wins over Michigan and OSU that lots of people will have seen.


Michigan is going to be 8-4 and their best win is going to be what, an overtime win at 6-6 Indiana? A win over 5-6 (maybe) Florida on a neutral field?
   131. SouthSideRyan Posted: November 15, 2017 at 02:39 PM (#5576689)
And LSU will be 9-3 with a home loss to Troy.
   132. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: November 15, 2017 at 02:41 PM (#5576693)
At some point people are going to have to deal with the fact that winning that conference shouldn't be an automatic ticket to anything


It wasn't last year (see tOSU in playoff over PSU).

I do otherwise agree with you. tOSU was routed by Iowa for God's sake. I'll go to my grave wondering how the hell that ever happened. Iowa has been utterly punchless offensively in just about every half this season. Unless they have another 59-0 shutout of UW in their backpocket, I don't see them winning a 2 loss beauty pageant.
   133. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 15, 2017 at 05:04 PM (#5576815)
I do otherwise agree with you. tOSU was routed by Iowa for God's sake. I'll go to my grave wondering how the hell that ever happened. Iowa has been utterly punchless offensively in just about every half this season. Unless they have another 59-0 shutout of UW in their backpocket, I don't see them winning a 2 loss beauty pageant.
it was a let down game after an emotional come from behind win, against a very professional team on the road. they were -4 on turnover margin and they had 90 penalty yards. it happens.

   134. cmd600 Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:39 PM (#5576953)
I'll go to my grave wondering how the hell that ever happened.


Iowa has a different playbook that gets unlocked only for Ohio St and Michigan. No one will ever convince me otherwise. They seem to play those two teams far better than they do anyone else.
   135. cmd600 Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:44 PM (#5576958)
Why in the world would that happen? The B1G has sent three teams to the playoff in its existence, and two of them got utterly humiliated in first round games. At some point people are going to have to deal with the fact that winning that conference shouldn't be an automatic ticket to anything. Especially if the other 2-loss team happens to be the reigning national champion.


Because no one is foolish enough to think that last year's results say enough about this year's?

Despite the blowout to Iowa, Ohio St is still #1 in S&P+, #2 in the Sagarin Predictor, and #2 in FPI.
   136. Voodoo Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:46 PM (#5576960)
I don't see them winning a 2 loss beauty pageant.


And it seem impossible for them to jump a one loss Alabama or a one loss Clemson or maybe even a one loss Miami. One loss Oklahoma would be tricky. Two loss Auburn goes in for certain no matter what happens elsewhere, IMO.
   137. Howie Menckel Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:53 PM (#5576962)
can someone explain the "THE Ohio State University" thing to me?

I'll be gentle and say it just strikes one as a bit..... insecure. let's just say that slightly higher-ranked institutions don't seem to find it necessary.
   138. SouthSideRyan Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:32 PM (#5576978)
   139. Howie Menckel Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:38 PM (#5576982)
thanks, SouthSide.

doesn't change my opinion, and it seems like a mere fig leaf, but hey it's something, I guess.
:)
   140. cmd600 Posted: November 16, 2017 at 05:38 PM (#5577657)
and it seems like a mere fig leaf


I don't particularly like what it's currently become, but the official name of the university for nearly 150 years seems like more than a "fig leaf".
   141. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: November 16, 2017 at 05:59 PM (#5577667)
i think it's 60/40 that a 2-loss clemson gets in over a 2-loss tosu.
In that scenario, tOSU is conference champ with wins over top-10 PSU and UW, and losses to top-10 OU and bowl-bound Iowa, while non-conference champ Clemson has wins vs. top-10 Auburn and #17 VA Tech, with losses to top-10 Miami and losing-record Syracuse.

Not a conference champ, one less good win, and a worse loss - and you think Clemson gets the nod?
   142. PepTech Posted: November 16, 2017 at 06:57 PM (#5577699)
I would love for tOSU to get torched again in the playoffs. I'll have my schadenfreude with whipped cream, please.

I think if Georgia beats Bama then the Tide should be out, but I'm in the minority. I don't get why they should allow two teams who JUST PLAYED ON A NEUTRAL FIELD to both get in; we just DID that. I suppose if it's one of those 27-25 amazeball games I might change my mind, but for me that's a quarterfinal.

The committee should pray for Bama/Miami/Wisconsin/Oklahoma to win out, then there can't be any controversy. Imagine if Auburn wins out, Oklahoma loses, Clemson beats Miami, and Wisconsin loses. You'd end up with Alabama/Auburn/Clemson/Miami. Not saying I'd *like* it, but I can see it happening. We'd be at eight teams by next year...
   143. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: November 16, 2017 at 07:16 PM (#5577711)
The committee should pray for Bama/Miami/Wisconsin/Oklahoma to win out, then there can't be any controversy. Imagine if Auburn wins out, Oklahoma loses, Clemson beats Miami, and Wisconsin loses. You'd end up with Alabama/Auburn/Clemson/Miami.
I think Bama has to beat Auburn to have a chance. Without that, they're a non-champ and have 1 win vs. a top-25 team (current #18 Mississippi St) - again, compare that to tOSU's resume if they win out.
   144. Voodoo Posted: November 16, 2017 at 08:24 PM (#5577738)
I think if Georgia beats Bama then the Tide should be out, but I'm in the minority. I don't get why they should allow two teams who JUST PLAYED ON A NEUTRAL FIELD to both get in; we just DID that.


Well if the losing team is probably better than the other conference champs, it's not really unfair to let the loser get a seat at the table. Unfair would be allowing a lesser team from a lesser conference in, thus penalizing Alabama for playing in the highest conference and losing one game (which the alternatives will also have, at least).
   145. Voodoo Posted: November 16, 2017 at 08:26 PM (#5577739)
I find it hard to see two loss tOSU jumping one loss Alabama. tOSU will have better wins, but losses count, too.
   146. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 16, 2017 at 09:22 PM (#5577771)
Well if the losing team is probably better than the other conference champs, it's not really unfair to let the loser get a seat at the table. Unfair would be allowing a lesser team from a lesser conference in, thus penalizing Alabama for playing in the highest conference and losing one game (which the alternatives will also have, at least).

If this were true, it would be a good point. But the SEC is not the "highest conference" this year. It's pretty normal outside of Bama and well, Bama can't beat Bama to strengthen its schedule.

As is, Bama has so far squeaked by the one good team it played, gets a bizarre amount of credit for winning at home against a team that lost to Troy, and otherwise played a soft schedule populated with teams that were generally tough last year but have totally cratered this year (A&M, Ole Miss, Tenn, FSU).

It's not Bama's fault that there are only 3-4 good teams in its conference this year or that their marquee OOC opponent turned to total garbage. But it is still reality. If Bama loses and the other teams at the top don't (One of the ACC squads, OU, and Wisconsin) then the SEC should only get one team.
   147. PepTech Posted: November 17, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5577917)
If Bama loses and the other teams at the top don't (One of the ACC squads, OU, and Wisconsin) then the SEC should only get one team.
Right. If (say) OU, the ACC champ, and Wisconsin win out, then it should be the SEC champ and that's it. It's not like the SEC is miles and miles above every other conference - in fact, I'll take Pac12 #5 over SEC #5 any day, and that extends through #6-11. Oregon State is pretty bad, but then I haven't seen Vanderbilt or Kentucky play this year, so I won't vouch for #12.

In that scenario, Alabama is in the top 5, but lost on the field to a team in the top 4 in their most recent game. They shouldn't go in OVER a one-loss champ. Where it gets complicated is when multiple other conferences have two-loss champs; then it's harder to keep a one-loss SEC runner-up out.

If Bama's only loss is a competitive game to Auburn on the road, I see them going in over a tOSU team that still has Hawkeye treads on their collective faces.
   148. Voodoo Posted: November 17, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5578004)
In that scenario, Alabama is in the top 5, but lost on the field to a team in the top 4 in their most recent game. They shouldn't go in OVER a one-loss champ.


Why the heck not? My contention is that a one-loss Bama would be favored on a neutral-field against all of the teams they'd be competing with for the final couple spots, and I think that is a much better gauge of "better team" than comparing the sixth best teams in various conferences.

Having said that, I would agree that if it's undefeated Wisconsin, 1 loss OU and 1 loss Clemson (or undefeated Miami), then one loss Tide probably is sitting out "by resume". But if any one of those teams lose a game, 1 loss Bama basically becomes a shoe-in.
   149. dlf Posted: November 17, 2017 at 12:43 PM (#5578024)
My contention is that a one-loss Bama would be favored on a neutral-field against all of the teams they'd be competing with for the final couple spots ...


I'll hold off until the Auburn game in two weeks, but I'm not sure that I would agree that Alabama *should* be favored against all of the other top-10 teams. Historically, their great defenses have been based around LB play having the strength to eliminate up-the-middle runs, having the speed to eliminate edge runs, and getting enough QB pressure that an opposing offense doesn't have time to test them deep. With four starting LBs out for the year, the defense has a big question mark and was just OK against LSU and MSU. As a fan, I'd be disappointed, but far from surprised to see them loose to Auburn or Georgia or, frankly, any of the schools they'd be competing against for the final slots assuming they don't win out.

By the way, I have two extra tickets to tomorrow's game against Mercer in case anyone here is in Tuscaloosa.
   150. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: November 17, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5578046)
I find it hard to see two loss tOSU jumping one loss Alabama. tOSU will have better wins, but losses count, too.
Here's the thing - the thing that SEC teams have always crowed about (look at our schedule!) doesn't apply to Bama this year.

Instead of tOSU, let's look at Wisconsin. Say UM beats Wisconsin, then Wisconsin beats tOSU while Auburn beats Bama; Wisconsin would have a conference championship and a win over a top-10 team, neither of which Bama would have. Other than reputation, what reason would there be to take Bama?
   151. Voodoo Posted: November 17, 2017 at 02:06 PM (#5578110)
Maybe I am just going off reputation, but I think Alabama is a better football team than Wisconsin, possibly much better. Do you think otherwise? If the argument that Wisconsin is better than -- or even equal to -- Alabama is based on "BUT LOOK! LSU LOST TO TROY!!!" then I think I'm gonna stick with "reputation" ... and so would the smart money.
   152. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: November 17, 2017 at 02:16 PM (#5578123)
Maybe I am just going off reputation, but I think Alabama is a better football team than Wisconsin, possibly much better. Do you think otherwise? If the argument that Wisconsin is better than -- or even equal to -- Alabama is based on "BUT LOOK! LSU LOST TO TROY!!!" then I think I'm gonna stick with "reputation" ... and so would the smart money.


The problem with this argument - and to be clear, it's generally one I agree with - is that the question is 'when'. Is Alabama a better football team on December 1, assuming Wisconsin wins out? I think not. Are they a better team on January 1? Almost certainly. So when do we measure - is it the best team at the moment of selection or the best team at the moment of the first playoff game?
   153. Voodoo Posted: November 17, 2017 at 02:49 PM (#5578149)
I'm not sure I understand the distinction. What would make Wisconsin a better team on December 1? Big Ten Champion bonus points that wear off like pixie dust over the next month?
   154. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: November 17, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5578168)
Maybe I am just going off reputation, but I think Alabama is a better football team than Wisconsin, possibly much better. Do you think otherwise? If the argument that Wisconsin is better than -- or even equal to -- Alabama is based on "BUT LOOK! LSU LOST TO TROY!!!" then I think I'm gonna stick with "reputation" ... and so would the smart money.
You can think what you want as to who's better, but there also has to be some level of earning your reputation. And if Alabama loses to Auburn, what is the signature win on their record? Miss State?

And the argument isn't "Wisconsin is better than Bama because LSU lost to Troy"; the argument is "Wisconsin deserves a shot because (1) they won their conference, and (2) they have better wins."
   155. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: November 17, 2017 at 03:11 PM (#5578170)
I'm not sure I understand the distinction. What would make Wisconsin a better team on December 1? Big Ten Champion bonus points that wear off like pixie dust over the next month?


Injuries (a HUGE deal this year) and an extra month of practice. Freshmen, in particular, are getting better at a rocket-like rate during their first season. More generally, teams aren't the same team on Jan 1 as they were on Dec 1 (or for that matter, Nov 1 or Oct 1 or Sept 1). So if your position is "we should pick the teams that are the best, i.e. the four teams that would be favored against all other teams at a neutral site", you invite the question of "do early season games matter other than as a shittier measure of which team is best on Jan 1"? Hypothetically, if Arizona had smoked USC a couple of weeks ago, would they have been a reasonable pick for the playoff because notwithstanding their early season shittiness, they might've been a top 4 team with Tate at QB?
   156. SouthSideRyan Posted: November 17, 2017 at 03:31 PM (#5578184)
The playoffs absolutely should not be based on who would be favored in hypothetical games. You lost games to mediocre teams because of injuries? Dems the breaks.
   157. PepTech Posted: November 17, 2017 at 04:11 PM (#5578210)
The playoffs absolutely should not be based on who would be favored in hypothetical games.
This is sort of what I mean - let's base it on *real* games. If Georgia beats Bama on a neutral field on Dec 1, I don't need to see a playoff that brings those two teams together again on a neutral field on Jan 1 (or even Jan 8). I get they both heal or practice or whatever, but we literally *just* did that, and the loser had their chance then. I'll take my chances that those aren't the two absolute best teams; let's see some fresh blood.
   158. cmd600 Posted: November 18, 2017 at 03:06 AM (#5578311)
Say Bama beats Auburn but loses to Georgia, and Ohio State beats Wisconsin. So we're looking at the Clemson/Miami winner, Oklahoma, Georgia and ... who has the next best claim to best performance over the past 12/13 games? One loss Alabama, Wisconsin, or Miami, if they lose? Seems like Alabama has a very strong case among the three. Or do we go look at two loss teams because those three all would have lost their "quarterfinal"? Do we really toss away 12 games of performance for just one?
   159. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 18, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5578331)
since these intermediate CFP polls are meaningless anyway, does anyone else think the committee should send a message by dropping clemson and alabama from the top 4 as a penalty for scheduling 1-AA opponents this late in the season?

   160. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 12:08 PM (#5578350)
There's no material difference in when these games are scheduled. If teams want to eat their cupcake in September to get in a tuneup before the real games start, that's fine. If teams want a glorified scrimmage before rivalry week, that's fine. There's nothing sacred about "this late in the season."
   161. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 12:39 PM (#5578356)
Virginia with touchdown passes of 33 and 75 to lead Miami 14-0. *snort*
   162. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 18, 2017 at 12:43 PM (#5578359)
There's no material difference in when these games are scheduled. If teams want to eat their cupcake in September to get in a tuneup before the real games start, that's fine. If teams want a glorified scrimmage before rivalry week, that's fine. There's nothing sacred about "this late in the season."

there's nothing sacred about "this late in the season", but there's a key difference between playing mercer in week 3 and playing them in week 11: there are no CFP rankings in week 3.

and whether you agree with it or not, the committee will always discount early season games in favor of more recent ones (momentum and whatnot).
   163. cmd600 Posted: November 18, 2017 at 12:44 PM (#5578360)
I get what you're saying, but unfortunately many college football followers, including the decision makers, do treat when games are scheduled materially different. Alabama losing to a top five team late in this season probably cant finish ahead them. They easily could if the loss was week one.
   164. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 18, 2017 at 12:44 PM (#5578361)
Bizarre punt return touchdown has Wisconsin up 7-0 (returner looked like he was going to let the ball die, punt team let up, then he picked it up and knifed through a confused mess of tacklers to get to the end zone).
   165. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 18, 2017 at 12:48 PM (#5578363)
Bizarre punt return touchdown has Wisconsin up 7-0 (returner looked like he was going to let the ball die, punt team let up, then he picked it up and knifed through a confused mess of tacklers to get to the end zone).
did he signal for a fair catch? if he did, the play still should have been blown dead when he picked up the ball.

if not, that's still pretty shitty.
   166. cmd600 Posted: November 18, 2017 at 12:52 PM (#5578365)
Ehh, not shitty, but smart. Good recognition of how they play developed. Also helped out by an uncalled block in the back. A couple possible defensive holdings on each side went uncalled as well. This was going to be an ugly game to begin with, but may get even uglier.
   167. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5578370)
Peoples-Jones got his left toe down first. The shot from behind was clear as day.
   168. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 01:40 PM (#5578375)
Benkert with another 33-yard touchdown, taking him to 17-18 for 262 in the first half. The one incompletion was a throwaway. If the Hoos hadn't fumbled the ball away twice, they could be sitting a lot prettier than 21-14.
   169. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 02:06 PM (#5578378)
Virginia blocks a punt and Benkert immediately throws a 26-yard touchdown.
   170. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: November 18, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5578380)
there's nothing sacred about "this late in the season", but there's a key difference between playing mercer in week 3 and playing them in week 11: there are no CFP rankings in week 3.

and whether you agree with it or not, the committee will always discount early season games in favor of more recent ones (momentum and whatnot).
A lot is determined by the conference schedule, which the school has no control over. Plus, the Big 10 and Big 12 schedule their out of conference games for only early season, leaving slim pickings for an open date late in the year.
   171. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 02:18 PM (#5578382)
I welcome the Shawn Robinson era at TCU, but he needs to learn to protect the ball in traffic. He's been waving it around while trying to escape pressure and has fumbled twice, though the Frogs got both back.
   172. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 02:25 PM (#5578384)
Benkert undoes a bunch of his good work with about the ugliest pick-six you'll ever see. Stared at his receiver so long *the safety* was able to jump the route on the sideline. Goes from 28-14 to 28-28 in seven seconds.
   173. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 02:30 PM (#5578386)
Robinson fumbles again, this time after failing to pitch when he should have while running the speed option, and this one is lost deep in TCU territory.

But TCU's defense keeps TTU out of the end zone from the six and the kicker yanks a 20-yarder wide left.
   174. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 02:49 PM (#5578390)
Miami gets away with blatant pass interference to thwart UVA on 4th-and-6 in Hurricane territory, the Hoos pick off Rosier but are pinned deep and shank a punt to put Miami in position to kick a go-ahead field goal after a three-and-out. #### Miami. So hard.
   175. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: November 18, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5578414)
UF is up 9-0 on UAB thanks to three field goals.

The Gators are back, baby!
   176. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 05:09 PM (#5578415)
UAB in its return from death is a three-point shootout loss at North Texas from playing for the Conference USA title.
   177. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 05:11 PM (#5578416)
Danielson and Nessler are blind if they can't see a ball moving in a guy's hands as his elbows land out of bounds. His toes are irrelevant.
   178. Howie Menckel Posted: November 18, 2017 at 05:32 PM (#5578419)
Wisconsin got lucky on the punt return (though that block was to the guy's side), and Michigan did get (barely) hosed on the non-TD. all they had to do was freeze the picture and we'd all be sure.

not at all impressed by Wiscy most of day, but they did break Michigan's spirit in the 4th quarter and announcers said that is their game - wear down your opponents and pull away at the end. didn't hurt that a very questionable tackle on a sack of the Michigan QB sent him out for good in 3rd quarter. shoulda been a flag but maybe not an ejection - or maybe yes, considering. pile-drove QB into ground.

I boycotted last year's playoffs because of the stupid committee choice. even if Wiscy is unbeaten, I'll have a feeling they get smoked in any semifinal.
   179. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 18, 2017 at 06:13 PM (#5578422)
Kentucky's been hamstringing its offense all day with dumb Wildcat plays that've generally gone nowhere and left it behind the chains, and then the coup de grace is a hey-let's-throw-one-up-for-grabs interception.
   180. Dreadful Foie Gras Posted: November 18, 2017 at 07:22 PM (#5578424)
I'll have a feeling they get smoked in any semifinal.

If Wisco gets past Bucks you define what is smoked and I will donate to charity of your choice serious dollars against you not commenting on this site for a year and I will assume you are a poster of honor. Will check in 12/3 to see if you are put up or shut up or just another says stuff but don't really believe it poster.

I write because I keep thinking WI will get smoked but they don't. So now I am all in good or bad. #onwisconsin
   181. Jay Z Posted: November 18, 2017 at 07:36 PM (#5578426)
165: Wisc. Lost a PR TD a couple of years ago when OR did a wave away then returned it. Which is the correct call. PR here did nothing so ball was live.
   182. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: November 19, 2017 at 01:53 AM (#5578465)
Washington with 10 points in the final minute to stun Utah. Huskies were content to run out the final 29 seconds and go to overtime after Utah went three-and-out following the tying touchdown, but Whittingham called timeout, and Browning hit passes of 18 and 31 to set up the winning kick.
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