Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, August 06, 2018

OT - 2018 NBA Thread (Pre-Season Edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about: Trying to get one of us hired as the GM of the Philadelphia 76ers

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 06, 2018 at 03:38 PM | 821 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 9 pages  < 1 2 3 4 >  Last ›
   101. jmurph Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5730400)
Could the experience be as a GM of something other than an NBA team? That might widen the scope.

Like an area Wawa, for example.
   102. Rally Posted: August 21, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5730624)
Shaq has/had wide hips. He's big everywhere, but that was a big part of his game. Anthony Mason could be on the bench for that team.


That team by definition doesn't have room for too many players on the bench.
   103. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: August 21, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5730834)
   104. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 21, 2018 at 05:11 PM (#5731036)
@ESPNForsberg
The team that employs Terry Rozier, now also features Perry Dozier…

… who had an uncle Terry Dozier that played in the NBA.
   105. Fourth True Outcome Posted: August 21, 2018 at 05:59 PM (#5731096)
   106. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: August 22, 2018 at 09:45 AM (#5731505)
You'd think that positional scarcity would hit big men the hardest - after all, how many people in the world are that tall and that athletic? And yet, the NBA is bloated with competent big guys. Here's another one.

The Heat signed C/F Jarnell Stokes to a training camp deal the other day. That name might sound familiar - he's had a few cups of coffee in the league (151 minutes for three teams) since getting picked early in the second round a few years ago. He's been more productive there than that sounds (PER 19.4, WS/48 .204, to name two measures) and downright dominant elsewhere (G-League MVP in 15-16, averaged 25.0/13.9/2.8 in 33.5 mpg last year in China, consistently excellent in summer league). He always shoots a high percentage from the field and is said to have a pretty high motor.

So, why only a training camp deal? All the reasons you might think - he's short and squat (6'8" 263), kind of slow laterally if you call him a four, not a rim protector, and can't stretch the floor (though his mid range jumper is actually pretty good, if not up to the standards of his work in the post). Think a more efficient, less skilled/smaller Zach Randolph. That's a solid player, but not one whose skill set necessarily complements the other players on the floor, nor likely good enough that you have the other guys compliment what -he- can do. Reportedly, he was offered loads of 2-way deals last year, which he understandably turned down, but that might be what he needs to do to get a shot to stick. Incidentally, he's only 24 - he's slowly adding range (though I don't see him ever becoming a stretch big) and could still develop. File the name away... the Heat have a solid track record with unknown/untested commodities.
   107. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: August 22, 2018 at 09:51 AM (#5731508)
106 serves as a useful reminder (to the extent one still needs such a thing) of just how yawning the gap is between college and the NBA. I remember Jarnell very well from his time at Tennessee. He was a beast - coaches raved about him. Couldn't be stopped in the post, relentless rebounder, all-around badass. And he's a fringe pro player at best.

He has a shorter, heavier, less athletic brother entering his redshirt freshman season at Florida, actually.
   108. spivey Posted: August 22, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5731583)
I agree with 107. I also think it's a reminder of (1) how many guys on the fringes there are that are worth a shot, but how few roster spots are available to give them shots, and (2) how hard it is to make it as a big if you can't do at least 1 of protect the rim, switch on to small guys, or shoot the 3.
   109. aberg Posted: August 22, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5731622)
I agree with 107. I also think it's a reminder of (1) how many guys on the fringes there are that are worth a shot, but how few roster spots are available to give them shots, and (2) how hard it is to make it as a big if you can't do at least 1 of protect the rim, switch on to small guys, or shoot the 3.


There are a lot of variables involved, so I don't think this is really an answerable question in the present, but I'm really interested in whether the league-wide shift away from bigs is purely strategic optimization, or if it will create opportunities to effectively go against the grain. We have seen a microcosm of what that would look like when the Cavs have tried to pound the offensive glass against the Warriors in the finals, but that has been more out of desperation than long-term design.

In other words, if you already had a couple of stars or really good players, would it be an effective strategy to surround them with bigs who can't shoot or protect the rim and wings who don't shoot threes, but who do other things well?
   110. Just TFTIO Posted: August 22, 2018 at 11:54 AM (#5731626)
Really good piece about Tyus Jones on Cleaning The Glass today.
   111. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: August 22, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5731638)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 7m7 minutes ago

Story filed to ESPN: No final decision yet, but San Antonio's Manu Ginobili is seriously considering retirement and will meet with coach Gregg Popovich in coming days to discuss future.

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 5m5 minutes ago

Ginobili, 41, has been working out regularly in the Spurs practice facility in preparation for the season, but within almost a month of training camp, he still hasn't committed to returning for his 17th season.
   112. jmurph Posted: August 22, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5731699)
Really good piece about Tyus Jones on Cleaning The Glass today.

I went from "I'm positive he has no future in the league" to "he's their best PG" in like 6 months.

I'm pretty smart, basically.
   113. Just TFTIO Posted: August 22, 2018 at 01:27 PM (#5731702)
I went from "I'm positive he has no future in the league" to "he's their best PG" in like 6 months.

It's a good thing Thibs is so flexible and non-dogmatic.
   114. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 22, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5731836)
Really good piece about Tyus Jones on Cleaning The Glass today.
They've been pumping out good (albeit paywalled) content twice a week all offseason. And I love the way video clips are annotated to highlight the specific player/action under discussion; that site does so much right.
   115. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: August 22, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5732008)
here's a fun stat:
in 372 minutes, the bulls were +14 points per 100 possessions when both bobby portis and nikola mirotic were on the floor.
   116. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: August 23, 2018 at 08:34 AM (#5732135)
Isaiah Austin is dominating in China.
(Austin is a 7-1 guy, with a 7-5 wingspan, barred from competing in the states due to a diagnosis of "mild" Farfan's syndrome. (He's also blind in one eye.) Not called out explicitly: he's in the Chinese minors, not the more prestigious CBA. Wish we could see him in the G league - his ability to block shots, run the floor, and willingness to shoot from distance is interesting, though those threes haven't always dropped and he's not nearly as physical as I'd like.)
Additionally: I always saw him described as a future center in the NBA, but think he needs to be a four. That said, I'm more in favor of a twin towers approach (as some here have called out) than most people in 2018.
   117. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: August 23, 2018 at 12:27 PM (#5732301)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 8m8 minutes ago

ESPN Sources: NBA's Competition Committee recommending rule changes for 2018-19 season that include: reset of shot clock to 14 seconds after offensive rebound; simplification of clear-path foul rule; expanding definition of "hostile act" for purposes of triggering replay.


Shams Charania @ShamsCharania 8m8 minutes ago

Sources: NBA Board of Governors will vote on Sept. 20-21 on 3 potential rule changes beginning in 2018-19: Shot clock re-sets to 14 seconds (instead of 24) after offensive rebound; simplification of clear path foul rule; expanded definition of “hostile act” for instant replay.


Shams was right before Woj on the timeline...and Woj posted a 2nd tweet giving the dates. Shams 1 Woj 0

I think I like the shot clock one, but need to know more about the other 2.
   118. jmurph Posted: August 23, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5732302)
The shot clock one seems like a radical change, I don't think there's any way that passes.

EDIT: Also I think I hate it. What's the point? The game isn't played at a slow pace right now.
   119. aberg Posted: August 23, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5732310)
Austin is dominating in China.


I first read your post as saying Issac Austin, the fat center who played for most of the NBA in the 90s. That would be truly impressive since he's 49 now.
   120. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: August 23, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5732314)
After a foul or kicked ball, shot clock resets to 14 - why is there a difference? It's currently an unnecessary extension of the possession. I literally had never thought of it before, but now it's weird that it was like that. Probably will make a difference at end of game situations, which I like.

Regardless more possessions is always a good thing, IMO.
   121. jmurph Posted: August 23, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5732319)
After a foul or kicked ball, shot clock resets to 14 - why is there a difference? It's currently an unnecessary extension of the possession. I literally had never thought of it before, but now it's weird that it was like that. Probably will make a difference at end of game situations, which I like.

Why reset it at all?

The 14 feels gimmicky now, too, but seems different given that it's a stoppage.
   122. spivey Posted: August 23, 2018 at 01:27 PM (#5732341)
I would love the clear path rule to change. There needs to be some ref judgment allowed there about cynically breaking up a likely fast break.
   123. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: August 23, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5732353)
Why reset it at all?

Part of the 24 seconds is for getting the ball out of the backcourt (and it would seem to make sense that they originally picked 14 as a reset because you used to have 10 seconds to get the ball past half court), so you're artificially padding the frontcourt possession time when going back to 24 (maybe it should be 16 then for all of these resets?).

One of those basketball cliches is about playing great defense for the whole shot clock, forcing a terrible shot, and then having a fluke rebound go to the offense. I think this disincentives teams from stalling - like you said, that's not a problem these days* - and should in theory just keep the overall flow moving slightly more than before. For the majority of teams the majority of the time, this really isn't probably going to change much. IOW, I don't see any downside, only upside.

*It's a HUGE problem in college.
   124. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: August 23, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5732467)
I first read your post as saying Issac Austin, the fat center who played for most of the NBA in the 90s.

This is his nephew, in fact.
--
I am in favor of these proposed (and, imo, likely) rule changes. The shot clock thing was already tested in the G League.
   125. jmurph Posted: August 24, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5732808)
Am I the only one that was caught totally off guard by the League Pass renewal notice? Surely it's not time for that, I thought, then checked and realized we're less than 8 weeks from opening night. Insanity.
   126. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: August 24, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5732855)
After a foul or kicked ball, shot clock resets to 14 - why is there a difference?
those events stop the clock and play resumes with a standard SLOOB.

otoh, offensive rebounds are live balls, with both teams often completely out of position. by the time a team secures the offensive rebound, passes the ball out to the PG and gets a play called, they'll have 10 seconds (at best) to actually execute it. post-offensive rebound possessions will be limited to simple actions: iso, pnr, post ups.


personally, i'd vote against the rule since i'm not sure it'll be a positive change, but i won't hate if it's approved.
   127. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 24, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5733121)
by the time a team secures the offensive rebound, passes the ball out to the PG and gets a play called
I think this approach is in part what the rule is intended to shift the league away from: I find it far more interesting when a team secures the offensive rebound and then their players improvise a quick attack while the defense is scrambling, with both sides adjusting what they're doing based on wherever the carom ended up. Although most plays will be somewhere in between the two. Mostly, I think it's a big improvement for close games down the stretch, where an offensive rebound by the leading team is often followed by their best perimeter scorer player pounding the air out of the ball until the shot clock is at 7 or so.
   128. Rally Posted: August 24, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5733211)
I can get behind a 14 sec clock after an offensive rebound. I don't think it will make a difference for most of the game, but towards the end it might discourage the intentional foul in some cases. I can't see it causing any more intentional fouling, so the potential for good is more than the bad. You'll still foul down by 3 with 10 seconds left, but if there are 20 seconds left in the game this should mean the defense plays it out and tries to get another stop.
   129. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: August 27, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5734195)
wojespn
Sixers are re-engaging on GM search, but managing partner Josh Harris doesn’t rule out existing front office structure for coming season. “We prefer to find an elite talent ... but we aren’t going to compromise,” Harris tells ESPN.
   130. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: August 27, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5734262)
Manu Ginobili @manuginobili 3m3 minutes ago

Today, with a wide range of feelings, I'm announcing my retirement from basketball. IMMENSE GRATITUDE to everyone (family, friends, teammates, coaches, staff, fans) involved in my life in the last 23 years. It's been a fabulous journey. Way beyond my wildest dreams.


Spurs are going to be a very different looking team this year.
   131. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5734296)
On the short list for my favorite player to watch on the court of all time. Best of luck to him...
   132. aberg Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5734367)
Let's take this moment to relive some of Manu's greatest moments:

Slapping a bat out of midair

The immortal double flop
   133. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:47 PM (#5734387)
   134. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5734406)
There's a fascinating aside in the latest Cleaning The Glass article:

Much of the criticism of Rubio, though, has not just been about whether he helps his team’s point differential, but whether he helps his team win. As I wrote last October:

"Critics would say that Rubio’s impact reverses in key moments late in games, that the Wolves’ streak of winning fewer games than their point differential would suggest is due to Rubio’s flaws being much more exposed in the harsh light of crunch time."

We don’t have a definitive answer for that concern, but we do have one more data point: The Jazz underperformed their point differential by more than four wins last season, while the Wolves’ difference between their expected and actual win totals was as small as it has been since 2014-15—when Rubio missed most of the season with an injury.
Any Wolves/Jazz fans have insight or opinion on this phenomenon?
   135. aberg Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:04 PM (#5734480)
We have talked about that phenomenon extensively in the past. The argument is that his teams get too easy to defend at the end of close games when the focus is on half-court execution and the defense is fully engaged. Since he is a non-shooter, help defenders can sag off of him if he's off-ball or go under screens and marginalize the PNR effectiveness if he's on-ball.

Is it possible that the argument is correct? Yeah. On the other hand, the evidence for it is really limited. We're talking about a few seasons of pythag numbers with tons of other noise in them. Even if we only consider those close-and-late situations, the Wolves won a few games last year when Butler made tough, contested jumpers in isolation. Would he have missed those shots if Rubio was on the floor? I have no idea, but it's hard to imagine how the shots would have been more difficult when he was already getting tons of defensive attention.

The mouth-breathing fans sometimes talk about how you just need your PG to be able to make a three in a big moment, or to be an offensive threat for the psyche of the team. I don't see why Jeff Teague making a handful more open threes would be that much more important than Rubio being much better at getting in passing lanes and contesting shots with his freakish arms.

So, yes, there are things that are probably crucial late in games that Rubio doesn't do well, but there are also things that are probably crucial late in games that he does very well. I haven't seen a convincing case (anecdotal or statistical) that his specific set of strengths and weaknesses matters more at the end of games than it would matter the rest of the game.
   136. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:53 PM (#5734502)
I guess I should clarify, since I'm familiar with the basic argument, and I'm aware of the inadequacies of the raw plus-minus data. What I'm curious about is whether someone who watches more Wolves or Jazz games than I has seen their opinion of this phenomenon shift in any way over the last season; or if there are other, unrelated factors that a neutral fan wouldn't likely notice, that would skew the numbers (e.g. cluster luck with multiple streaky shooters padding the margin in blowouts). Maybe there isn't any new ground for us to cover here, but it's interesting that the phenomenon persisted across a change in team context.
   137. Booey Posted: August 27, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5734543)
The Jazz have actually underperformed their pythag every year during the Gobert era (2015-2018), including the first 3 before Rubio was there. And I think they were clearly better in the playoffs last season with him than without.

The Spanish Unicorn has grown on me. He's also my 6 year old sons favorite player though, so that probably colors my perception quite a bit.

   138. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: August 30, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5736209)
Vaya con dios, David West, who announced his retirement.
   139. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: August 30, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5736317)
In the least surprising development of the off-season, the Thunder officially stretched Kyle Singler today.
   140. Just TFTIO Posted: August 31, 2018 at 06:08 AM (#5736800)
Rockets trade Anderson to the Suns for Knight and Chriss, apparently. Seems like a salary move for HOU, less clear wtf PHO is thinking?
   141. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: August 31, 2018 at 08:01 AM (#5736813)
Suns also get Melton. Actually seems like a good trade for the Suns. Not sure how it helps the Rockets except to save them money.
   142. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: August 31, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5736900)
The Spanish Unicorn has grown on me. He's also my 6 year old sons favorite player though, so that probably colors my perception quite a bit.
oh, i remember the first time i saw rubio, during the 2008 olympics.....you know, it's never too early to join PFLAG.

   143. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: August 31, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5736905)
once again: joel embiid, natinal treasure:
So I’m chilling one night, and I go on YouTube, and I’m thinking I’m about to figure this shooting thing out.

I go to the search box like….

HOW TO SHOOT 3 POINTERS.

Nah.

HOW TO SHOOT GOOD FORM

Nah.

Then the light bulb went off, man. I typed in the magic words.

WHITE PEOPLE SHOOTING 3 POINTERS.

Listen, I know it’s a stereotype, but have you ever seen a normal, 30-year-old white guy shoot a three-pointer? That elbow is tucked, man. The knees are bent. The follow-through is perfect. Always. You know how in America, there’s always an older guy wearing like EVERLAST sweat-shorts at the court? That guy is always a problem. His J is always wet.

I barely knew anything about the NBA because I could never watch it in Cameroon. And no, I don’t mean that like we were too poor and we didn’t have a TV. We had a TV. We had a pretty normal life. Americans have crazy ideas about Africa, like its all one big country.

No, the reason I couldn’t watch the NBA is because my mom was super, super strict about school.
I’m telling you — school is too easy in America, man. In Cameroon, it’s crazy. Elementary school is like college. I didn’t even have any friends because all I ever did was sleep and do homework.
All I could say in English was like “Hello, good morning,” and then “I AIN’T NEVER HAD NOBODY DO ME LIKE YOU.”
Sometimes I’d go to this court by my house where guys would play pickup, and every time I’d shoot the ball, I’d literally yell out, “KOBE!”
I pretended my way to the NBA. I seriously got to the league by watching YouTube and living in the gym. There’s no other way to explain it.
   144. Just TFTIO Posted: August 31, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5736925)
Thank you, Random White People

You're welcome, Joel. You are most welcome.
   145. spivey Posted: August 31, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5736992)
I like the Rockets trade ok for them. Chriss and Knight are mostly scrumps but I think have a better chance of being playable in the playoffs than Anderson. I think this hurts them in the regular season but has potential to slightly help in playoffs.
   146. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: August 31, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5736995)
I like the Rockets trade ok for them. Chriss and Knight are mostly scrumps but I think have a better chance of being playable in the playoffs than Anderson. I think this hurts them in the regular season but has potential to slightly help in playoffs.

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, this trade doesn't move the needle much and, if nothing else, flipping Knight or Chriss is easier than flipping Anderson if they want to save more cash. Losing Melton might be something they regret. He looks like he'll be a solid NBA player. A kind of win for both teams, I guess?
   147. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: September 01, 2018 at 01:03 AM (#5737303)
Losing Melton might be something they regret. He looks like he'll be a solid NBA player.


Nothing against Melton in particular, but the number of second-round picks who "look like they'll be a solid NBA player" before they have played an actual NBA game is far, far higher than the number that eventually make it. Maybe I'll eat my words here, who knows.
   148. PJ Martinez Posted: September 02, 2018 at 07:09 PM (#5737784)
Sixers ownership ceding control of the franchise to the NBA and now being unwilling or unable to oust them from the organization is the hushed backdrop to the GM “search”
   149. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 02, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5737833)
Lakers buy out Luol Deng:
Luol Deng agreed to a significant give-back of $7.5 million in his contract buyout with the Los Angeles Lakers, clearing $38 million in salary cap space for 2019 free agency, league sources told ESPN.

The Lakers can now offer a free-agent star a maximum contract in July to partner with LeBron James. The Lakers are targeting the top players in a potentially starry 2019 marketplace, including Toronto's Kawhi Leonard, Golden State's Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson and Minnesota's Jimmy Butler

Deng's buyout leaves him with $29 million for the two years left on his contract, which the Lakers will use the waive and stretch provision to soften the short-term salary cap hit.
   150. MHS Posted: September 03, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5737888)
Was in Atlantic City for the first time since sports betting was legalized. I thought a couple of the season over/indeed were pretty attractive. I used Peltons and 538 win projections as a competitive point and looked for spots where the lines were way off. The two I ended up playing where the Jazz and Wolves, which I thought would make my BBTF b-ballers happy. Jazz were 48.5 and Twolves 44.5.

I do have to say If I was using my intuition astute basis for my picks I wouldn’t have taken the wolves. I feel like the NBA has passed Thibs by.

   151. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 03, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5737890)
It has. But they do have a lot of talent.

Rooting for the Wolves would put me in the very uncomfortable position of hoping, for the ongoing good of the team, that a player who has already suffered plenty physically (Derrick Rose) gets injured soon and severely.
   152. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: September 03, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5737902)
Is it just me or is $7.5M a lot to just give away? Deng isn't getting that back in his next deal. I'm trying to figure a conspiracy theory for this. Magic give him a a few movie theatres or Starbucks or something?
   153. Just TFTIO Posted: September 03, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5737924)
Deng is going to end up on the Wolves, isn’t he? At least he’s not a shitheel, I guess.
   154. tshipman Posted: September 03, 2018 at 01:32 PM (#5737929)
The two I ended up playing where the Jazz and Wolves, which I thought would make my BBTF b-ballers happy. Jazz were 48.5 and Twolves 44.5.

I do have to say If I was using my intuition astute basis for my picks I wouldn’t have taken the wolves. I feel like the NBA has passed Thibs by.


The Wolves are fascinating to me.

They are one of the few teams in the NBA that have a shot to win 60 games (Towns gets defense, Wiggins shoots better, Butler doesn't get injured), but I feel like they also have a shot to win 35 (Jimmy is hurt, Towns pouts, Wiggins doesn't change and ballhogs).

Probably they'll win 48-50, but man, what a spread on results.

One thing people are sleeping on w/r/t Wolves: Jamal Crawford was just awful for them. Just by getting rid of him, they'll likely be better. Their starters were a great lineup--+8.9. Their bench was beyond awful, despite having a starter on the court at all times.
   155. PJ Martinez Posted: September 03, 2018 at 02:01 PM (#5737935)
But what about players with 10 or more years of service, like, say, Kevin Durant? Their projected max starting salary next year is $38.2 million. So stretching Deng over three years wouldn’t quite do the trick. There would need to be another move to make the space.

Unless the Lakers convinced Deng to take a discount to get out of his contract...

The timing of the stretch provision down to the day, plus the buyout discount Deng agreed to down to the dollar, give the Lakers projected 2019-20 cap space of ... $38.2 million.
   156. jmurph Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5738161)
Is it just me or is $7.5M a lot to just give away? Deng isn't getting that back in his next deal. I'm trying to figure a conspiracy theory for this. Magic give him a a few movie theatres or Starbucks or something?

It is a ton to give up but he also just seemed really unhappy not playing, and still thinks he's capable of contributing. Facing another two years of watching basketball when he's already an extremely wealthy man probably wasn't very enticing.
   157. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5738180)
I'm not an expert obviously, but I'm a bit surprised the players' association is okay with the Deng giveback, especially if it's a result of the team simply not playing him (which seems like a dangerous precedent).

I guess Thibs is gonna sign him for $7.5M somehow and then all will be right with the world.
   158. spivey Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5738187)
I agree with 156 and 157. This feels shady and makes me think the whole thing last year where they just refused to let him dress was to get to this point, where he'd walk away from the contract so they could maybe open up max money.

That bothers me more than tanking.
   159. aberg Posted: September 04, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5738413)
I assume the Wolves will sign Deng. He probably offers more defensively on the wing than most of the options they currently have. The wing depth chart behind Butler and Wiggins is made up of Okogie, Bates-Diop, Rose, Nunnally, and CJ Williams. The rookies will probably struggle defensively right away. Rose has shown that he's a very bad defender, even though he'll probably play a lot (and be much better than Crawford). Nunnally is there for his shooting. Williams can play some D, but he's on a 2-way and it remains to be seen if he'll get much run. There's a spot for Deng. I'm just hoping it's not 25 minutes per night.
   160. Just TFTIO Posted: September 05, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5738873)
The Wolves are a weirdly joyless team, for such a nominally exciting bunch. I want them to do well, but they are a chore to root for.
   161. aberg Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5739168)
The Wolves are a weirdly joyless team, for such a nominally exciting bunch. I want them to do well, but they are a chore to root for.


I don't feel that way, but I know what you're saying. What I don't get is why so many fans and such a large portion of the local media insist on being so forlorn even when the team is good. I get that they were terrible for multiple NBA generations, but why would you willfully let that ruin a good stretch?
   162. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5739178)
   163. spivey Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:43 PM (#5739179)
As a semi-local (Wisconsin) neutral, I just don't find the Wolves fun to watch. They don't play smart defensive basketball, their role players are (or at least last year, were) gunners from yesteryear who are past it, they can't space the court for ####. So while they have enough offensive talent to be good, it's not easy on the eyes. Their coach is an obnoxious red ass as well. I mean, it's better than the alternative of not having Butler and Towns.

In fact, the Bucks are essentially the Eastern Conference equivalent of this, though a bit worse. There's a bit of excitement there for me with Bud and the new stadium, but I think when the season starts the lack of shooting will still exist and the excitement will go away.
   164. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 05, 2018 at 07:41 PM (#5739303)
I just can't shake the feeling that the 2020-2021 Timberwolves will feature Andrew Wiggins happily scoring 30 a night on enormous volume, surrounded by no one of consequence, as the team goes 30-52 and Towns is starring in L.A. or Boston or wherever.

I admit to being somewhat baffled by the question of how exactly anything resembling a happy ending can be reached via any road that involves retaining Thibodeau's services. Firing him seems like an easy call if, as is widely reported, Towns doesn't like him.

   165. maccoach57 Posted: September 06, 2018 at 12:58 AM (#5739520)
Not seeing Minnesota as being a "chore" to root for. I see them about 20 times a year, and they are pretty good and pretty interesting. I get not liking Thibodeau and being down on Wiggins, but if any fanbase should know things could be a lot worse, it is that one. Sure, Towns and/or Butler may bail, but maybe they won't. Westbrook didn't. Maybe they both stay, they get a 3rd guy who is better than Wiggins, and a better coach, and are in position to play for the Finals when Golden State breaks up. In the meantime, any team with Karl-Anthony Towns and Jimmy Butler is worth watching and following.

Also not seeing the Deng giveback as "shady." Deng has a ton of money, wants to play instead of sit, probably knows Thibodeau will sign him, and Magic Johnson is a pretty persuasive guy. The Lakers didn't play him last year because he is old, slow, not very good anymore, and they had a bad team that needed to play young guys.
   166. Just TFTIO Posted: September 06, 2018 at 08:21 AM (#5739558)
There's the indifference to sexual assault thing (Brunson, Rose, Stephenson, Hill), there's Thib's antediluvian offence that seems custom designed to minimize the impact of their best player; there's Butler and Wiggins being duplicative in terms of offence. And, this is really dumb, there's Towns' whiny Tim Duncan face.
   167. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: September 06, 2018 at 09:01 AM (#5739588)
Nice (paywall) piece on HOF inductee Grant Hill.

He was a hell of a player. At his peak (basically his Pistons career), he was about 80% of LeBron, and I mean that as a compliment to both players. Of course LeBron has been doing it for 15 years, Grant could only sustain that level for six.
   168. jmurph Posted: September 06, 2018 at 09:57 AM (#5739616)
I'm generally anti-conspiracy theory but what kind of dirt does Udonis Haslem have on the Heat? That dude hasn't been good in a loooooooooooooooooooooong time, and they just keep giving him more money (they just signed another one year deal). If they just like having him around, I'm reasonably sure an assistant coach makes less than he does.
   169. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: September 06, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5739627)
Basically every piece on the Heat I've read says that the organization loves Haslem and considers him a huge asset, especially in free agent recruiting.

Which doesn't mean keeping him around as an active player is a good idea. But that's the word, apparently.
   170. jmurph Posted: September 06, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5739635)
To be fair it's among the least objectionable contracts they've given out post-LeBron.
   171. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 06, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5739774)
Thib's antediluvian offence that seems custom designed to minimize the impact of their best player; there's Butler and Wiggins being duplicative in terms of offence.

Who is the best player - Jimmy or KAT? Wiggins being duplicative is a Wiggins problem, not a Jimmy problem since Jimmy is flat out better. KAT is more important, and has more upside than Jimmy.

Jimmy on his own is more than worth the price of admission, IMO. Yes, I'm still bitter about that trade.
   172. Just TFTIO Posted: September 06, 2018 at 11:54 AM (#5739786)
Yeah, I should've said "most important player", that being Towns. And Butler and Wiggins being duplicative isn't a Jimmy problem, or an Andrew problem, or even a Thibs problem; but it does make the team less fun to watch.
   173. jmurph Posted: September 06, 2018 at 12:00 PM (#5739792)
Jimmy on his own is more than worth the price of admission, IMO.

I think Jimmy Butler is very good but his brand of offensive basketball is not particularly attractive.
   174. maccoach57 Posted: September 06, 2018 at 07:34 PM (#5740215)
Yes, but is it more attractive than Popeye Jones or Paul Mokeski?
   175. Just TFTIO Posted: September 06, 2018 at 07:40 PM (#5740220)
I mean if this Wolves team played like this in 1999, they’d be top ten in fun. But they don’t, and so they aren’t. I will still endeavor to watch all 85 of their games this year.
   176. Booey Posted: September 06, 2018 at 08:18 PM (#5740231)
I will still endeavor to watch all 85 of their games this year.


You expect them to lose so badly in the playoffs that the league institutes a mercy rule and calls the series after 3 games?
   177. Just TFTIO Posted: September 06, 2018 at 09:08 PM (#5740252)
You expect them to lose so badly in the playoffs that the league institutes a mercy rule and calls the series after 3 games?

/taps nose
   178. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: September 07, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5740438)
   179. JC in DC Posted: September 08, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5740928)
The season needs to start already.
   180. puck Posted: September 08, 2018 at 08:03 PM (#5741017)
New paper finds that the Nuggets have the best homecourt/field advantage in professional sports.


That does not seem surprising. I'm surprised the Rockies didn't make the baseball list, though, they used to have pretty huge splits. I'm also surprised the Broncos are barely ahead of the Patriots. (Insert spying joke here?)
   181. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: September 08, 2018 at 08:18 PM (#5741026)
That does not seem surprising. I'm surprised the Rockies didn't make the baseball list, though, they used to have pretty huge splits. I'm also surprised the Broncos are barely ahead of the Patriots. (Insert spying joke here?)


The Rockies are there, but for some reason they're buried amidst the NHL teams.
   182. Booey Posted: September 08, 2018 at 09:28 PM (#5741080)
The Rockies are there, but for some reason they're buried amidst the NHL teams.


Because it ranks all the teams by advantage, regardless of sport. Every NBA team has a bigger HC advantage than every NFL team, every NFL team has a bigger advantage than every NHL team, and every NHL team has a bigger advantage than every MLB team...except the Rockies, whose HC advantage is so large (compared to the other MLB teams) that it jumps past the baseball rankings and into the hockey range.
   183. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 09, 2018 at 09:29 AM (#5741197)

Because it ranks all the teams by advantage, regardless of sport. Every NBA team has a bigger HC advantage than every NFL team, every NFL team has a bigger advantage than every NHL team, and every NHL team has a bigger advantage than every MLB team...except the Rockies, whose HC advantage is so large (compared to the other MLB teams) that it jumps past the baseball rankings and into the hockey range.


It's a clue that 1. Basketball 2. Football 3. Hockey 4. Baseball is also an accurate listing of the major sports by how much influence officiating exerts over a game.
   184. spivey Posted: September 09, 2018 at 05:14 PM (#5741330)
The season needs to start already.

Agreed. I got a flex pass for 12 games for the Milwaukee Bucks yesterday. Highlights of the games we picked are seeing the Raptors twice and the 76ers. Also got the Pacers, Nuggets, and T'wolves. Rest are against weaker teams, though I've been hearing some good buzz around the Magic in this thread.
   185. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 09, 2018 at 07:25 PM (#5741370)
Hey hey hey.

I took the summer off.

What’s the word on my beloved Nuggets? Any hope for them to do more than fight for the 8 seed again?
   186. Booey Posted: September 09, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5741404)
What’s the word on my beloved Nuggets? Any hope for them to do more than fight for the 8 seed again?


Sure. They could realistically challenge for the 3rd seed. Or miss the playoffs entirely. Or finish anywhere in between.

Last year only 3 wins separated the 3rd seed from the 9th seed, and this season could be much of the same, as none of those teams looks clearly better or worse after their offseason moves (though I'm guessing some of them will be). And that race will be even more clustered now with the Lakers entering the fray after landing a fairly significant FA.
   187. aberg Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:00 PM (#5741569)
And that race will be even more clustered now with the Lakers entering the fray after landing a fairly significant FA.


Looks like someone is irrationally high on Lance Stephenson.
   188. JJ1986 Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:06 PM (#5741574)
I had a dream that Portland was one of the teams to miss the playoffs in 2019. The season needs to start now.
   189. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5741584)
i feel like you people are forgetting that 82 games makes for an insanely long season. also, that noone cares about the NBA until christmas. also, that nothing that happens in the regular season matters.


what we need is a 6/ish week preseason 3 on 3 tournament.
   190. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: September 10, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5741652)
butler, gibson, deng, rose....noah?
   191. aberg Posted: September 10, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5741657)
I wonder what Keith Bogans is up to.
   192. jmurph Posted: September 10, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5741659)
I think it's a lock that they sign Noah if he agrees to a buyout with the Knicks.
   193. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 10, 2018 at 03:19 PM (#5741662)
I wonder what Keith Bogans is up to.


There are many things to dislike about the Thibs experience, but honestly the obsession with the Ghost of Players Past is the one that is a bridge too far for me. I mean sure it sounds cute and all and makes for fun snark, but seriously he needs to stop it.

Not because of what the signings directly mean, but for what it says about Thibs. Is he overly sentimental, living in the past, dependent on having his toys around him, afraid of change and new things? Nothing that explains it makes me feel any better about him and in fact makes me want to be free of him ASAP.

At this point I want him far far away from my team. As POBO I want a hard hearted, flinty souled, analytic and amoral monster who would do anything to improve the team, even if it means sending his first born into factory slavery in China in exchange for shoes that might give the team a tiny advantage. I don't want weird obsessions with past players. Ugh.
   194. jmurph Posted: September 10, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5741668)
Deadline Hollywood @DEADLINE
‘Brotherly Love’ Siblings Comedy Inspired By Ben Simmons From LeBron James’ SpringHill & Kourtney Kang Set At NBC

LEBRON'S GOING TO PHILLY
   195. jmurph Posted: September 10, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5741670)
Not because of what the signings directly mean, but for what it says about Thibs.

I feel exactly the same way. There's a chance Deng works out, but what seems really clear is that Thibs isn't running through any kind of rational decision-making process with these things.
   196. aberg Posted: September 10, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5741683)
I feel exactly the same way. There's a chance Deng works out, but what seems really clear is that Thibs isn't running through any kind of rational decision-making process with these things.


The early reports were that multiple contenders reached out to Deng as soon as the Lakers bought him out. He took about a $5m haircut to walk away from $7.5m of his contract to sign a vet min deal and have a chance at playing time. As I see it, the Wolves needed a wing defender on the bench and got one with a good track record on a minimum deal due to the coach's positive relationship with the player. Also, doesn't every good coach who takes a new job (or even every business executive?) take people from their last role with whom they built trust?

We had the same fears about Rose, but Thibs didn't trade for his huge contract, didn't stop using Jones when Rose came aboard, and he got more out of him than we had seen from Rose in a long time. If Deng plays huge minutes and isn't good, I'll jump right in line to criticize him. Butler was an All-Star who the Wolves wouldn't have acquired without Thibs having a relationship with him. Gibson got a market value deal, but he was excellent and it's not a problematic contract. I just don't think the track record supports the fears yet.
   197. jmurph Posted: September 10, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5741687)
Rose was pretty terrible for the Wolves (in a very small sample, to be fair) in the regular season, but had some moments in the Houston series. I don't think there's any reason to think he'll be worth whatever minutes he gets this year.
   198. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 10, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5741690)
Not because of what the signings directly mean, but for what it says about Thibs. Is he overly sentimental, living in the past, dependent on having his toys around him, afraid of change and new things? Nothing that explains it makes me feel any better about him and in fact makes me want to be free of him ASAP.

Sure. At least these are all minimum signings. I think guys like Rose and Deng and probably even Noah wouldn't make the worst role players in the league. Of course, there's no reason to trust Thibs that they'll be just the bit players they should be even if he appears to have been more right on Taj that anyone expected. They are just moves around the margins though, and as a Bulls fan there'll be a part of me hoping it works out more than any of the Wolves fans expect.
   199. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 10, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5741691)
I just don't think the track record supports the fears yet.


Individually ... maybe. But looking as a whole, it just so happens that the best moves for the Timberwolves organization happened to be former Thibs players? That seems extremely unlikely.

You know more about basketball than I do, but I am pretty good at looking for trends in data but it doesn't take a Data Scientist (real title, not mine) to suggest Thibs really likes his former players (and vice versa). It is hard for me to believe that this has resulted in the best possible result for the Wolves, given there is a whole league of players that don't end up on the Wolves and one past team of players that do.
   200. aberg Posted: September 10, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5741711)
You know more about basketball than I do, but I am pretty good at looking for trends in data but it doesn't take a Data Scientist (real title, not mine) to suggest Thibs really likes his former players (and vice versa). It is hard for me to believe that this has resulted in the best possible result for the Wolves, given there is a whole league of players that don't end up on the Wolves and one past team of players that do.


That's what I was getting at about the nature of executives hiring people with whom they have prior relationships. In an absolute sense, there probably were better players on the market or better contracts, but in terms of competing with other teams to get guys on your roster, having a positive relationship with them (and getting them to come to an historically moribund franchise in a Lillywhite, frigid market) means quite a bit.

Looking at some other things that transpired over the last couple of years- the Wolves tried to sign CJ Miles, but he went to Toronto because they had more cap space available. They reportedly had discussions with Joe Harris (I initially typed "Alexander." Thank god we didn't offer him a contract) but he took more money to stay in BKN. They have also signed vets without prior Thibs interactions- Teague, Crawford, Tolliver-, young guys without a history- Nunnally, CJ Williams-, and have used draft picks in a way that has generally been regarded as good value (got a pick back in the Butler trade, got KBD as he slid to the second, filled a need for wing athleticism with Okogie).

So, the short version. I think it's natural to leverage positive relationships in transactions and Thibs/Layden have done a lot of other stuff that doesn't show an unhealthy preoccupation with Chicago players.
Page 2 of 9 pages  < 1 2 3 4 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Randy Jones
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT - November* 2018 College Football thread
(299 - 12:02am, Nov 19)
Last: . . . . . .

Newsblog2018 Cy Young Award winners | MLB.com
(52 - 12:00am, Nov 19)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogSale of Baseball Prospectus
(374 - 10:58pm, Nov 18)
Last: Spahn Insane

NewsblogOT: Wrestling Thread November 2014
(2314 - 10:54pm, Nov 18)
Last: Chokeland Bill

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)
(2530 - 10:16pm, Nov 18)
Last: PJ Martinez

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (November 2018)
(456 - 9:35pm, Nov 18)
Last: Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB)

NewsblogMLB Trade Rumors: Phillies 'Expecting to Spend Money' in Pursuit of Bryce Harper, Manny Machado
(10 - 9:30pm, Nov 18)
Last: there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135

NewsblogHere's why the Cardinals need Bryce Harper
(64 - 9:14pm, Nov 18)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogMLB rumors: How Dodgers' Dave Roberts could replace Giants' Bruce Bochy
(6 - 8:40pm, Nov 18)
Last: Tin Angel

NewsblogReport: Dodgers' Kenley Jansen to Undergo Heart Surgery, Expected to Return for Spring Training
(3 - 7:56pm, Nov 18)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature

NewsblogMichael Wilbon Weighs In On Jacob deGrom With Worst Baseball Take Of Year | MLB | NESN.com
(20 - 5:55pm, Nov 18)
Last: Lars6788

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(1231 - 4:31pm, Nov 18)
Last: AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther

NewsblogQ&A: Damon Minor on Giants' Steven Duggar, Chris Shaw, Aramis Garcia
(3 - 4:26pm, Nov 18)
Last: base ball chick

NewsblogIndians' Trevor Bauer pleads his own Cy Young case using a spreadsheet on Twitter
(30 - 4:12pm, Nov 18)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogPosnanski: Baseball 100 Rules
(283 - 2:07pm, Nov 18)
Last: Rennie's Tenet

Page rendered in 0.6291 seconds
46 querie(s) executed