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Monday, August 06, 2018

OT - 2018 NBA Thread (Pre-Season Edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about: Trying to get one of us hired as the GM of the Philadelphia 76ers

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 06, 2018 at 03:38 PM | 821 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   801. jmurph Posted: October 05, 2018 at 10:18 AM (#5760977)
That's pure puffery, right? Hayward bullied noted defensive stalwart and much smaller player, Bradley Beal in 1-on-1? Nice work by the agent and Boston's PR folks.

Midseason form, JC!
   802. JC in DC Posted: October 05, 2018 at 10:20 AM (#5760979)
Ha. I'm not anti-Boston Celtics, as you know. Anti-Red Sox? Yes. Celtics? Nah. All respect.
   803. spivey Posted: October 05, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5760982)
Basketball-wise Milwaukee would be a great destination for Butler, but there’s no chance in hell he would re-sign there. As such, the Bucks are probably right to refuse to part with Middleton.

Really? I mean, I know his preferred teams were LA and NY, but they were also teams that could full max him. I think if he can go somewhere he can contend and get the full max, there's a strong chance he'd resign anywhere. I mean, I think that's true for pretty much every player.

The trouble with Milwaukee is they don't have great assets. Their best players are their assets, and Bledsoe's value isn't very high right now. Him and Middleton will also both be FAs. They don't have any good expirings so getting back Dieng is hard. Brogdon and DiVincenzo have some value but not a ton. It will be interesting to see what happens with Middleton, too. I think there will be a lot of teams with money this upcoming year, right? He could get maxed.
   804. jmurph Posted: October 05, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5760986)
Ha. I'm not anti-Boston Celtics, as you know. Anti-Red Sox? Yes. Celtics? Nah. All respect.

I'm just kidding, it was pretty puff-heavy especially for Lowe.
   805. jmurph Posted: October 05, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5760990)
I'm going to attempt to phrase this gently so as to stay officially on the off topic of basketball, but does anyone else find the official line that Mark Cuban was completely disconnected from the business side of the Mavs, and thus unaware of the behavior of his former employee(s), entirely impossible to believe?
   806. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: October 05, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5760993)
I'm going to attempt to phrase this gently so as to stay officially on the off topic of basketball, but does anyone else find the official line that Mark Cuban was completely disconnected from the business side of the Mavs, and thus unaware of the behavior of his former employee(s), entirely impossible to believe?

Yes.
   807. JC in DC Posted: October 05, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5760996)
Hard to follow the negatives, but do I believe Cuban knew something about his former employee's behavior? Yes. I do believe he had heard something about it.
   808. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: October 05, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5761017)
I'm just kidding, it was pretty puff-heavy especially for Lowe.


Nah. 100%, unimpeachably objective, like everything else Lowe has ever written, and his writing a long, laudatory piece about Gordon Hayward's rehab had nothing whatsoever to do with Lowe getting his start in the business at Celticsblog or growing up in New England as a C's fan.

On a serious note: Lowe is of course outstanding, but I have noticed as his profile has gotten so much higher, he is much more of an Insider, so to speak, now, so the tenor and approach of a lot of his stuff has shifted a bit. Also his stuff seems to have gotten longer, like no one edits it, which, given the cuts at ESPN, is probably true.

That said, he is great, combining knowledge of analytics, video breakdowns, good writing skills and an obvious love of/obsession with the NBA, and I read most of his stuff.
   809. jmurph Posted: October 05, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5761020)
Hard to follow the negatives, but do I believe Cuban knew something about his former employee's behavior? Yes. I do believe he had heard something about it.

Yeah sorry for my phrasing, that was the gist. Cuban's argument, which has been backed by the NBA, is in so many words: "Man, I gotta tell you I, the guy who is famous for his business acumen and is on a ####### game show where I pick good business ideas, am not really involved with the business of the Mavs. The team that I own. Purchased with the money I made through other business ventures."

It's very weird!
   810. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: October 05, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5761027)
I'm going to attempt to phrase this gently so as to stay officially on the off topic of basketball, but does anyone else find the official line that Mark Cuban was completely disconnected from the business side of the Mavs, and thus unaware of the behavior of his former employee(s), entirely impossible to believe?


Not "entirely impossible" but "quite unlikely." Cuban is a great owner from a team competitiveness standpoint, in spite of Dallas' recent downturn, and I would be happy in that sense if he owned the Lakers. But I have never really bought his handling of this other than as a CYA thing. Perhaps I am too cynical about him, though, because I find his public persona so grating.
   811. The Good Face Posted: October 05, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5761057)
I'm going to attempt to phrase this gently so as to stay officially on the off topic of basketball, but does anyone else find the official line that Mark Cuban was completely disconnected from the business side of the Mavs, and thus unaware of the behavior of his former employee(s), entirely impossible to believe?


It's possible he was unaware, in the sense that the laws of physics wouldn't prevent it, but pretty damn unlikely. One thing that all top level management hates is surprises; if somebody's done something that is going to cost money and/or create bad press, they want to know immediately if not sooner. The confluence of events that would be necessary for Mark Cuban, genius businessman and engaged team owner, to be wholly ignorant of what was going on strains credulity.
   812. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 05, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5761070)
IMO it’s less the NBA endorsing Cuban’s story and more about a lack of smoking-gun evidence that he was complicit in the harassment. I’d have to think Silver and most of the owners he works for would gleefully run Cuban out of their club on a rail, if they had Sterlingesque evidence enabling them to do so.
   813. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: October 05, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5761106)
I get the sense that Cuban, unlike Sterling, is actually (a) very well liked and (b) one of the more powerful/influential owners.
   814. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: October 05, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5761110)
[808] I don't believe Lowe has the fan bias you (I assume) jokingly implied, but I have picked up on what I feel is some source bias. I try to keep this in mind when he discusses Toronto and Boston, for example.
   815. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 05, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5761134)
Cuban: I can easily see a scenario where he's relatively disengaged from the components of the org where this was rampant, versus those he's more active in. I don't find it realistic that he was anywhere as unaware as his explanation requires.

NJ in NY: agree with both of those last 2 comments.
   816. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: October 05, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5761162)
So, someone educate the NBA ignoramus: Kyrie says he'll re-sign with Boston next summer. Could he do that now, assuming he wanted to? Is there some league rule preventing him from sitting down with Celtics management and working out a contract extension and signing it on, I don't know, October 17?
   817. rr: target market for blowhard nonsense Posted: October 05, 2018 at 01:31 PM (#5761166)
I don't believe Lowe has the fan bias you (I assume) jokingly implied, but I have picked up on what I feel is some source bias


What I was joking about was the reactions of a few people here to my mild criticisms of Lowe, juxtaposed against the Hayward piece. I have yet to meet/read a fan who doesn't have a little fan bias, and Lowe is no exception. In my case, I have been very slow to give Stevens and Ainge enough credit at times, largely because they run the Celtics and because I "sports-hated" Ainge when he was a player. None of this means that Lowe is not a great writer--he is--but saying he has "source bias" but not "fan bias" seems like a pretty thin slice. YMMV.

That noted, yeah--as I suggested, Lowe is connected now, hobnobbing with big-timers like Ujiri and Hayward, so that changes his focus/tone sometimes. Not a good thing or a bad thing--just a thing. As we all know, there are benefits and drawbacks to inside/outside POVs in sports journalism.


   818. jmurph Posted: October 05, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5761174)
So, someone educate the NBA ignoramus: Kyrie says he'll re-sign with Boston next summer. Could he do that now, assuming he wanted to? Is there some league rule preventing him from sitting down with Celtics management and working out a contract extension and signing it on, I don't know, October 17?

He can sign a much larger deal after he opts out of his current deal next summer because the NBA's salary/contract rules are weird and complicated.
   819. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 05, 2018 at 02:08 PM (#5761192)
I don't think Lowe growing up a Celts fan makes a difference. I do think the nature of his work does, though. YMMV.
   820. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 05, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5761203)
Given the reports coming out about the Mavs' investigation omitting the team photographer who introduced Cuban to his wife, I find Cuban's line even harder to believe than I did initially, and I wasn't particularly disposed to believe him then. I agree with PASTE, though, that I think the league would be perfectly willing to run him out if any damning evidence came out, but absent such evidence is more sitting on its hands than actively supporting him.

(Also I have always found the idea that Mark Cuban, a man who got rich by timing the dot com bubble perfectly is a genius businessman and not just a really lucky [albeit hardworking and driven] entrepreneur awfully hard to believe. Since then I don't know that he has done much but toot his own horn, fund other people's ventures, and hold forth on how to be a successful businessperson.)
   821. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: October 05, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5761234)
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
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