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Thursday, October 01, 2015

OT Gaming: October 2015

RosePortal Games, the developer of an RPG called Epic Quest of the 4 Crystals recently got caught offering compensation—in the form of free Steam keys—in exchange for Steam reviews. When Valve found out, they weren’t pleased.

Yeah, nothing shady about that…

Anyway, here’s the start of monthly Gaming threads.

Dan The Mediocre is one of "the rest" Posted: October 01, 2015 at 08:02 AM | 679 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: games, gaming, steam

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   501. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 18, 2016 at 10:09 PM (#5267270)
Took me back to childhood when "we" would rent Nintendo games and then I'd watch my older brother play them. He kept offering to let me play, but I stink at games that involve any kind of action...plus it was actually enjoyable to watch as if it were a film.


One of the most enjoyable gaming weekends I ever had was renting "Resident Evil" for the original Playstation (back in 1996) and playing it all the way through with my friend from about Friday at 4pm to Sunday at 3pm, with very little sleep. We'd take turns playing for the first while, but it became obvious that I was better at the mechanics, while he was better at keeping track of the story/plot/requirements. So he would shout out instructions and I would do them, and we'd both scream like little girls when the dogs would leap through the windows, and we'd swear like sailors during a boss fight that was going poorly. Finishing the game was a triumph, and my friend said that watching me get through the final boss (after approximately 30 attempts) was one of the most stressful times of his life (up to that point).

   502. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: July 20, 2016 at 09:59 AM (#5268099)
Here's a non-gaming question, where would I look for a really cheap monitor? With the caveat being that the only VGA hookup on my current screen is taken.

This is for my work desktop, and I am sick unto death of having a single tiny screen on which to flip from PDFs to email to Word documents to the workplace intranet.
   503. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: July 20, 2016 at 10:18 AM (#5268108)
If really cheap is the most important requirement and you can live with it if you end up with a few dead pixels or such on your second monitor, just keep an eye on amazon/newegg/etc. for cheap refurbs/open boxes, which do go up from time to time.

Or if you really feel lucky, you can take a shot at someone's used monitor on craigslist or ebay. DVI has been around long enough that most monitors have them unless they're REALLY old (10 years or more).
   504. Randy Jones Posted: July 20, 2016 at 10:55 AM (#5268136)
Define "really cheap"
   505. zenbitz Posted: July 26, 2016 at 12:22 PM (#5272077)
Anyone play starbound? Seems cool.

   506. madvillain Posted: August 03, 2016 at 01:09 PM (#5278196)
Here's a non-gaming question, where would I look for a really cheap monitor? With the caveat being that the only VGA hookup on my current screen is taken.


Just go on Amazon marketplace you will find one. Although IMO they are so cheap new (21" IPS 1080p can be had for $99...) there's little point in buying used.

______________________________

ROCKET LEAGUE IS AWESOME! Holy ####. You want to know how to screw up your wrist? Do 10x10 barbell curls at the gym (100 reps total, yea max volume!), then go home and play Rocket League for the first time and don't stop for 5 hours. Yikes.

Despite the fact that I had as many own goals as actual goals last night I think I'm hooked. What a brilliantly simple concept and perfectly executed. The art style grew on me throughout the session as well.
   507. Random Transaction Generator Posted: August 03, 2016 at 04:07 PM (#5278370)
I loved watching Rocket League, and it was gifted to me in June.
I've played it for 5 hours or so, and I've come to the realization that I am terrible at it.
Short of straight line shots and running interference for my teammates, I'm pretty much useless on the field. I only play pick-up games, and definitely won't ruin myself in league competitions.

I have, however, become quite addicted to Overwatch. They just released a limited-time "Summer Games" set, and it includes a game very similar to Rocket League (Lucio ball, named after their skating character), which also highlights my inability at this style of game. The rest of Overwatch, however, I'm just good enough to do something right, and bad enough to do something wrong, and persistent enough to keep going back for more.

I still have a bunch of single player games I need to get into (Just Cause III is 60% done, while Saints Row IV, Bioshock Infinite, and Cities:Skylines await their inauguration), but Overwatch is great for sit-and-go 20 minute bursts I have available after wife/child are asleep and before I hit the hay.
   508. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: August 07, 2016 at 10:13 AM (#5280026)
Anyone play starbound? Seems cool.

Been playing it on-and-off since early in the closed beta. I've enjoyed it.

I have, however, become quite addicted to Overwatch. They just released a limited-time "Summer Games" set, and it includes a game very similar to Rocket League (Lucio ball, named after their skating character), which also highlights my inability at this style of game. The rest of Overwatch, however, I'm just good enough to do something right, and bad enough to do something wrong, and persistent enough to keep going back for more.

That's the nice thing about Overwatch: success in the game is a lot more than just fast twitchy reflexes. Cooperating in a team and understanding the map and the matchups are just as important.

Bioshock Infinite

Loved that game. The gameplay is only decent, it's the only FPS I've ever enjoyed for the story and the visuals. It's such a beautifully put- together game but oddly enough, the impact of the story makes it unlikely I'll ever play it again.
   509. CrosbyBird Posted: August 07, 2016 at 11:06 AM (#5280038)
I loved Bioshock Infinite despite the gameplay, which was a tad repetitive. And shockingly violent, which didn't bother me too much, but definitely turned people off.

The combination of excellent voice acting, great use of music, and brilliant world-building was enough for me to strongly recommend the game.
   510. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: August 08, 2016 at 09:55 PM (#5280938)
GPU upgrade time! The GTX 1070 was a fun upgrade.
   511. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 09, 2016 at 01:00 PM (#5281257)
From the OTP thread, moving it here seemed more fitting:
BTW, what's new in FFXIV? Enough stuff that I should come back for a few months until the endgame grind wears me down again?

Not entirely sure what the last point you really played was.

The main story line has probably been the best part of the expansion. And the cinematics for the final Nidhogg fight is pretty epic. And the theme music Dragonsong is one of the best.

The new 24 man raids Void Ark / Mhachi are pretty good. And a bit different in terms of gameplay and feel.

After that, it's less great. The Alexander end game raids aren't as good as the Blinding Coil ones. They added a bunch of casual content, but it's all a bit grindy and very easy and simple. Not much in terms of innovation or gameplay. Airship Voyages, Aquapolis, Palace of the Dead. The last one is probably the most interesting, it's basically a soft-roguelike type of dungeon. You start at level 1, on floor one, random layouts, and have to level up from scratch as you go down floors (levelling is very fast though). You basically get a break every 10 floors (10th floor is always a boss fight) and can restart from that point if you wipe. You also start with a level 0 weapon and armor, and opening certain chests gives you a chance of levelling one of them up. Those stay levelled up if you clear a set of 10 floors, but go back to the level you started that set on if you wiped. Even if you restart from level 1 (though they are item synced to your level). If you get both to level 30, you can keep it as a weapon for use outside of the palace of the dead (ilvl 235), and reset the palace weapon back to 0. There are also unique items you can collect from chests, for use within the palace (mostly buffs, more chests, and some that let you transform into certain monsters for a minute), and random party wide buffs and debuffs on some floors.

Other than that, it's the fairly typical, new dungeons, new gear...
   512. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: August 09, 2016 at 01:21 PM (#5281272)

The main story line has probably been the best part of the expansion. And the cinematics for the final Nidhogg fight is pretty epic. And the theme music Dragonsong is one of the best.

The new 24 man raids Void Ark / Mhachi are pretty good. And a bit different in terms of gameplay and feel.


I was back for a couple months in the fall so I did play through the whole expansion. I left when the Void Ark came out because I was annoyed the amount of grinding required to just be allowed to play it, when it was much easier to get into the Crystal Tower.

Thanks for the info FP!
   513. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 09, 2016 at 01:59 PM (#5281295)
They've added quite a bit to the main story line since the start of the expansion. The Nidhogg fight I was refering to isn't the same one you get at the end of the Aery dungeon. It's a trial (like primals). Also the Sephiroth trial is pretty fun (been a few patches now), also has really good music (possibly less your taste though).
   514. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: August 09, 2016 at 02:06 PM (#5281303)
Wait, there's a SEPHIROTH trial? Does it have One-Winged Angel?
   515. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 09, 2016 at 03:13 PM (#5281390)
Bah it's SEPHIROT the fiend, I want to like blame like a bad auto-correct, and not the fact that I always spell that wrong... Based on the Warring Triad from ffvi (Demon, Fiend, Goddess). Mea Culpa.
   516. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 09, 2016 at 03:22 PM (#5281394)
Wait, there's a SEPHIROTH trial? Does it have One-Winged Angel?


There's a Kenny Omega game?
   517. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: August 09, 2016 at 06:15 PM (#5281552)
Bah it's SEPHIROT the fiend, I want to like blame like a bad auto-correct, and not the fact that I always spell that wrong... Based on the Warring Triad from ffvi (Demon, Fiend, Goddess). Mea Culpa.

I got excited, damn you!

But do they play the whole Dancing Mad suite? Almost as good as One-Winged Angel. I would have liked the Kefka leitmotif to have been given the full fugal treatment for Goddess, but there was at least some decent counterpoint in there.
   518. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: August 09, 2016 at 06:18 PM (#5281556)
One of my favorite bits of video game music shenanigans was reimagining the themes of Last Dungeon (Kefka's tower) as the first movement of Mahler's 6th Symphony.
   519. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: August 09, 2016 at 06:26 PM (#5281560)
For you guys who are now into Rocket League, feel free to give me a holler on Steam if you want. It's one of my favorite games of the year.

Also, if you're like me and have been meaning to check out Alien: Isolation when the price dropped, it's $13.59 on Steam this week. I just picked it up and am waiting for the sun to go down to start it up.
   520. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 09, 2016 at 07:18 PM (#5281588)
But do they play the whole Dancing Mad suite? Almost as good as One-Winged Angel. I would have liked the Kefka leitmotif to have been given the full fugal treatment for Goddess, but there was at least some decent counterpoint in there.

No phase 1 it's based on the same music for the Fiend encounter in VI. But well there are still at least 2 more Warring Triad trials to come (possibly more).

The phase 2 is entirely new, but probably definitely not your style. Though I like the bit that starts at 4:45 in that video.

Retreat where lesser men lead
Flee from what you do not see
Heed the dark within your being
Turn away
Disobey
I'm the end and the beginning
The faith that feeds the unbelieving
A tightening knot to staunch the bleeding
Say my name
Say my name
Sephirot
   521. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: August 10, 2016 at 07:16 PM (#5282217)
#### YEAH THAT'S ATMA WEAPON'S MUSIC!

The second isn't really my style as you see, but it seems fitting for what's on the screen.

Gotta say they've upped their music game in XIV from the start. Good King Moogle Mog works very well for the fight too, with the goofy chorus and then bringing in the minor-key Mog theme from VI. Ravana's Theme is amazing too.

Think I'll pop in after I get tired of WOW Legion.
   522. zenbitz Posted: August 30, 2016 at 01:11 PM (#5292625)
This is not exactly the correct thread for this but.... if you were going to buy a Windows Laptop what would you get? I use Mac Book Pros (but my work buys them), this is for my wife, who is a professor/department head. She uses it for excel, word, photoshop, illustrator. If we were going to run Windows only games on it, woudl it matter?

Of course, I am not sure she needs windows at all, and personally I can no longer tolerate it. Mac laptops are $500-1000 more, and that's real money.

My buddy who is a long time PC game dev says the "best windows PC is a mac book in dual boot"... but that's a 10 year old quote now.
   523. Random Transaction Generator Posted: August 30, 2016 at 03:33 PM (#5292726)
   524. Swedish Chef Posted: August 30, 2016 at 04:29 PM (#5292767)
522

I have a Lenovo Yoga 900 that's very nice, I'd recommend it without hesitation but it's pretty expensive. My previous laptop was an underpowered fanless Zenbook which was cheaper, the build quality was good but the Core M is pretty slow. So if I bought a Zenbook I would get one with an i5 CPU, they don't cost more than the Core M one.
   525. zenbitz Posted: August 30, 2016 at 04:49 PM (#5292784)
Yeah, we play games on the mac -- but the laptops (at least 2014 versions) can't really keep up with new 3D games. And there is still a subset of less hardware intensive games that only run on a PC (although one can run them in vmware or parallels if you have to, or dual boot).

   526. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: August 30, 2016 at 06:34 PM (#5292850)
Ah!

This is fortuitous!

A gaming question popped up today and before I even had the chance to search and try and find this thread (bookmarked now), up it popped in Hot Topics.

GoG games just hit me with an email offer of Witcher 3: Game of the Year edition (with both expansions and all DLC) for $49.95.

Couple of questions, since I know several people here have played it and have had generally good things to say about it.

Is that a fair price (and is the additional content worth paying more for)?

I've never played Witcher 1 or 2, is that going to be a problem?

What are the biggest challenges to adapt to for someone coming over from the Dragon Age series?
   527. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: August 31, 2016 at 09:02 AM (#5293048)
My wife is taking her first steps as a Twitch streamer; she does about 15 hours per week right now, but will be trying to add more in the upcoming months. The dream for her is a modest income from subscribers (she's not got any other work right now except for helping me with the accounting for my consulting work), and already she's making some headway in building a follower base.

We've been setting aside 3-4 hours on Sundays for co-op streams. Which is a long way of introducing my opinion that Divinity: Original Sin EE remains a staggeringly well-designed game for co-op play, local or internet.
   528. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 02, 2016 at 05:41 PM (#5294577)
You don't need to play Witcher 1 or 2 to play Witcher 3! Some of the background does make it richer, but you can play Witcher 3 and you will be able to grasp most of the storyline from context. I played Witcher 3 before the other two and then again after and it was a different experience, but enjoyable either way. I'm not sure I'd even really recommend Witcher 1 - the faux-turn based combat is horribly clunky and boring, at least to me.

I'd be very happy to pay full price for Witcher 3 GOTY if I did not already own it. And I am very sad that this story is wrapped up - I think there are a lot more stories to tell in that world.
   529. JJ1986 Posted: September 13, 2016 at 01:21 PM (#5299573)
So, I've got a few build questions. I'm looking at upgrading my custom-desktop, which probably means a new board, CPU, graphics card and memory. I'm probably looking at spending about $400-$450 for the non GPU parts. Right now, I'm leaning towards an i5-6500, but...

1. Is the i5-6600 worth the slight price increase?
2. What's the best board to get with that for between $100 and about $150? I noticed Z170s, but I don't really know what's good.
3. Do all LGA1151 boards support m2 connections for PCI-E SSDs when I want to upgrade that?

Thanks.
   530. zack Posted: September 13, 2016 at 04:01 PM (#5299721)
I (literally) just bought the bulk of new build myself, waiting for the GPU I want to get in stock and I'll pick up a 2TB spinny disk at some point. I'm not an expert my any means, but I've been researching pretty extensively the last few years to try and catch up (last PC I built for myself is about to turn 8, and I wasn't paying much attention in the meantime).


1) I would say the 6600 is not worth the ~$30 increase over the 6500. That said, I just bought a 6600 because it had a combo deal on newegg with the board I was already buying, and if I downgraded to some off-brand RAM from the stuff I had picked it cost only $5 more. But I had planned to go with the 6500 until I realized I picked the wrong cooler in the middle of the checkout process.

2) You want a Z170 or an H170 mobo, I think. There are other options but at some point you just have to limit yourself. I went with ASUS, because I always do, and then ended up with a Z170-P because it was a deal today and had a $10 rebate, so it came out to $99. Those are just chipsets though, even if you limit it to one manufacturer and one chipset there will still be 20 motherboards to choose from. I picked the -P because it was on sale, and had a USB-C connector which I will probably never use. If you're in the market for a 6500 or 6600 you're not overclocking so most of the features don't really matter, it mostly comes down to how many ports of what types you want. I definitely wouldn't spend more than $140 on a motherboard with those CPUs, and you probably want to spend <$120. The z170 chipset doesn't really offer either of us anything over the h170, but they often overlap in price, especially on sale.

3) I thiiiiiink all h170 and z170 boards have m.2 pci-e support, but I don't think h110 do, so not all 1151 boards do. I didn't go with m.2 because it's double the cost. (The trickiest part of m.2 SSDs is that the m.2 form factor supports both PCI and SATA drives, and the SATA drives are not any faster than regular SATA SSDs).

This is what I ended up with. The prices for the RAM and CPU don't make sense because they were a combo with the motherboard:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z170-P ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($103.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: GeIL SUPER LUCE 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($30.51)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($157.30 @ Newegg)
Case: *Fractal Design Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($50.00)
Total: $661.77
   531. GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag) Posted: September 13, 2016 at 10:06 PM (#5299926)
#527 - Where can I find you guys. I'm on all the time.
   532. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 15, 2016 at 10:36 PM (#5301270)
Really, as long as it's an i5, a little clock won't kill you.

The difference between the motherboards is typically overclocking and multiple-GPU solutions. If you don't need the features, an H170 is just fine.

m.2 will be fine on an h170. It'll essentially be at x4 instead of x8, but PCIE 3 has a lot of bandwidth.
   533. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: September 16, 2016 at 11:39 PM (#5301990)
I'd be very happy to pay full price for Witcher 3 GOTY if I did not already own it. And I am very sad that this story is wrapped up - I think there are a lot more stories to tell in that world.


Thanks for the feedback, Dan, I'm looking forward to playing it.

Unfortunately, I'm likely to have to put any "frivolous" purchases aside for a little while.

It appears my desktop has gone the way of the dodo.

It started out a few months ago as a random issue, usually after long hours of use (as well as idle, as in I'd leave the computer on while downloading something when I went to bed and would wake up to it crashed).

It took some testing, but it appeared that the issue was related to the graphics card I had installed, in that I could tweak it or remove it and reseat it and everything would be ok.

Fast forward to this last weekend and I went to bed leaving a few torrents downloading, only to wake up to a dead computer that wouldn't boot the next morning. Tried the old trick with the graphics card and no luck. Didn't pull the MB error codes, however, which was stupid, but work was heavy this week and I figured I'd get to it later.

Didn't try to boot it since Wednesday until tonight, but figured I had some time after leaving work a little early. First thing, pulled the graphics card and attached to the on-board Intel. Booted up fine. Ok, interesting. Shut down, attached a backup graphics card that I had spare and tried to boot. Nothing. Lovely. Now I'm thinking it's an MB issue with that PCI slot. Reconnect to the Intel output like before.

Things are great, but only for about 10 minutes, then the computer suddenly shut down. When it rebooted, it never reached bios, only cycling directly from Code 15 to Error Code 51, which translates to either "your memory, or your MB's memory slots are *######*". I've tried switching from slots 1 & 3 to 2 & 4 which didn't work, but was only partially informative.

Since then, no life.

The obvious first step is to buy some cheap DDR3 RAM and solve that initial problem, if the RAM is the issue, that will solve me for a while, but the TL;DR problem is, what if it's the MB?

Is it worth it to just replace the MB with another 1155 DDR3 MB, or would it make more sense to upgrade while cannibalizing as much of the current rig as possible (I think I could get away with just a MB and RAM).


So far, I'm wasn't having any troubles running anything I want to run with the current rig and it's a decent platform to OC; however, I am I am intrigued by the performance upgrade to a M.2 SSD as well as the higher bandwidth RAM.

Here's the current setup:

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UP5 TH ATX LGA1155 Motherboard
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk
Storage: Samsung 840 Evo Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Disk
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 Vapor-X 3GB Video Card
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 800W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply
Optical Drive: Pioneer BDR-207MBK Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer


Thoughts?
   534. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 17, 2016 at 12:33 AM (#5302000)
CoB, did you try the other PCIE slot? Yes, it only runs at x8, but the truth is that there's so much bandwidth in PCIE that x16 vs. x8 doesn't actually make any real difference.

It's also possible that a capacitor has gone in the power supply. I'd try another PCIE cable at the least, another power supply if you have it. If it was actually your memory, you shouldn't be OK without the GPU. Error codes aren't perfect! There are some Teapo capacitors in your mother supply, so it wouldn't be shocking if something's gone there.

If it is the motherboard, I'd probably still get a Z77 motherboard simply because it's still a very good CPU. They're not *that* hard to find, though you'll have to call Microsoft if you're using an OEM Windows (since this clearly isn't a new build but replacing a part, they tend to be merciful over the phone with the license).
   535. Langer Monk Posted: September 17, 2016 at 11:37 AM (#5302053)
You can also try to run MemTest to see if there are actual RAM problems.
   536. Randy Jones Posted: September 23, 2016 at 01:50 PM (#5305434)
For those who are looking at new builds, Monoprice has some CPUs on sale:
i7-6700K $288.99 + $2.49 S/H = $291.48
i7-6700 $259.24 + $3.49 S/H = $262.73
i5-6600K $212.49 + $2.49 S/H = $214.98
i5-6500 $174.24 + $3.49 S/H = $177.73

link to slickdeals post
   537. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: September 23, 2016 at 01:55 PM (#5305440)
[534][535]

I bought a 2x4 set of Ballistix DDR3-1600 at the local Micro Center, swapped them in and so far ... so good.

Much cleaner outcome than having to replace the motherboard.

Phew.

Thanks for the suggestions!
   538. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 19, 2016 at 09:14 AM (#5355533)
Hey, you Mountain Dew-swilling basement dwellers might be interested in the fact that Blizzard's ultra-popular multiplayer team-based shooter, "Overwatch", is free to play this weekend. Even filthy console peasants get the free weekend, so you can catch up on all the cool new things 12 year-olds are saying about mothers these days.
   539. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: November 19, 2016 at 07:53 PM (#5355713)
Is Overwatch fun?
   540. Paul d mobile Posted: November 19, 2016 at 08:05 PM (#5355722)
Do you like team fortress? It's like that with more classes and made by blizzard.
   541. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 21, 2016 at 09:29 AM (#5356033)
I'm an Overwatch player.

Like 539 says, if you like TF2, you'll probably like Overwatch.
There are more choices, more OMG moments (because of the ultimates), but a lower skill ceiling on most of the characters. However, the combinations of characters leads to some really nice moments. This game definitely favours teamplay over solo pushes.
   542. Covfefe Posted: November 21, 2016 at 09:39 AM (#5356036)
Anyone played the new Civ 6 yet?

I've been hoping that the even/odd curse of Civilization holds true (Civ2 = perhaps the greatest era normalized game ever; civ3 = some interesting baubles but a disappointment; civ4 = better than civ2, but lots more and better competition; civ5 = satan took a crap on the franchise) and civ6 finally gets me past playing civ4 mods.

   543. Greg K Posted: November 21, 2016 at 10:17 AM (#5356044)
Anyone played the new Civ 6 yet?

I thought of asking that too!

Though since I'm going to buy it at Christmas anyway, kind of a pointless question for me to ask.

From what I can gather it will be like most big games these days...ok, but will only come into its own once the expansion packs start flying. Unfortunately for you zonk, it looks to me like a modified Civ 5. Although so far all of the new features seem like winners to me. Unstacking the cities looks like fun. Limited united stacking seems like a good compromise between the single units and the death stacks that insane people like. I've heard great things about the great people...a much more active process in developing them and choosing which great person to build towards. And I'm really excited about the new government mechanic. Mixing and matching policies rather than going down a pre-determined tree is a-ok with me.

[EDIT: I've seen city-state game play in a couple videos, but I still don't fully grasp the system, and have no idea how it would work in gameplay...so we'll see on that one]

I've heard the usual horror stories about AI...but so long as they have hotseat I don't play with AI anyway.

If your dreams are crushed and you end up moving to Toronto we'll have to get some Civ weekends together.
   544. zack Posted: November 21, 2016 at 10:18 AM (#5356046)
I'm waiting for balance patches, because from everything I've heard the foundation is really solid but a lot of the systems need major tweaking. Really all I wanted out of civ6 was civ5 with AI that worked (both diplomatic and tactical) and those are two of the worst parts of civ6.

Civ5 at launch was also pretty crap, but 5 + G&K + BNW was the best civ game ever, so I'm hopeful.
   545. Greg K Posted: November 21, 2016 at 10:23 AM (#5356047)
Civ5 at launch was also pretty crap, but 5 + G&K + BNW was the best civ game ever, so I'm hopeful.

Careful, that's the kind of statement that can start a CIV NERD WAR!

Luckily, I'd be fighting on your side.
   546. Greg K Posted: November 21, 2016 at 10:31 AM (#5356052)
Oh right, barbarians...I've heard people praising/complaining about the strength of barbarians, which I think is great.

One of my favourite Civ 5 mods was the one that made barbarians much more formidable (mostly due to encamped barbarians healing). I look forward to actually having to manage my military in defence in the early game.
   547. Covfefe Posted: November 21, 2016 at 10:58 AM (#5356078)
I suppose I cannot speak to civ5 with the expansions -- I was so put off by the initial build, I didn't bother with them (much as I did with civ3).

I never really considered a weak AI to be a problem with Civ -- I always considered it one of those games where the "journey" is far more important/fun than "winning". Indeed, in all my thousands of lifetime hours of Civilization, I doubt I've seen the 'endgame' more than half a dozen times. The fact that I tended to lose interest in an individual game - after putting perhaps several hundred hours into it - was a feature, not a bug.

It's actually a bit ironic -- the various civ4 mods that employed the improved AI changes actually could turn the civ4 AI into a bit of a monster that could present a real challenge (ultimately, the AI improvements were mostly causing the AI to play like a human player... as in, the right sort of spamming, the right sort of belligerence, and the right sort of isolate and gang up on the most dangerous nation)... I tended to play with these changes tuned down a bit because my primary gameplay tends to be more peaceful expansion and infrastructure building and it actually got pretty annoying when the AIs became rampaging hordes.
   548. Greg K Posted: November 21, 2016 at 11:04 AM (#5356080)
I suppose I cannot speak to civ5 with the expansions -- I was so put off by the initial build, I didn't bother with them (much as I did with civ3).

I think this is a real drawback of the current model of games. It's great in that, if you look at the current iteration of Civ 5 or Europa Universalis IV they are fantastic games. And really, I think that's a product of player feedback and developers continuing to shape the game for years after its initial release. Europa Universalis IV was released in 2013 I believe, but in many ways it isn't "finished" until this final expansion pack was released this year (I believe Rights of Man is out now, right?).

But it means that initial release isn't really putting the game's best foot forward...and in retrospect it seems like barely a game at all. A couple years ago I started having regular Civ 5 sessions with a friend of mine, but he only had the base model. It was borderline unplay-able for me...the fully developed game had spoiled me. Which means you have to have patience with a game as it develops...which is especially asking a lot in the case of Civ 5, when you have an already existing fully developed and mod-supported game in Civ 4 sitting there. [Which, by the way, is another development. Civ 5 has a ####-ton of mods you can use now to tweak just about anything you don't like...which of course, Civ 4 has had for years and Civ 5 didn't have on its initial release]. I sometimes find it annoying, but it's sort of the reality of gaming now, it's almost like you can't accurately judge a game until it's been out for a few years.
   549. Greg K Posted: November 21, 2016 at 11:07 AM (#5356083)
It's actually a bit ironic -- the various civ4 mods that employed the improved AI changes actually could turn the civ4 AI into a bit of a monster that could present a real challenge (ultimately, the AI improvements were mostly causing the AI to play like a human player... as in, the right sort of spamming, the right sort of belligerence, and the right sort of isolate and gang up on the most dangerous nation)... I tended to play with these changes tuned down a bit because my primary gameplay tends to be more peaceful expansion and infrastructure building and it actually got pretty annoying when the AIs became rampaging hordes.

This is generally how I play as well. The more the game becomes a tight strategy, where maximizing your in-game decision-making is crucial to ensure you achieve the end-game victory or even survival, the less interested I am. I prefer a loose kind of play where my focus can remain on the concepts the algorithm is trying to abstract, and I can pretend to ignore the actual rules of the simulation. For me Civ works better as a world in which I can role-play as a given national leader rather than a player that is aware of the underlying code and what decisions are optimal.

EDIT: In part that's why I find the later stages of the game so dull. Once you've established what "victory" you're going for, your decisions start to be narrowly directed to that outcome. You start doing things that make sense in the game, but not in the game-world, if that makes sense.
   550. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: November 21, 2016 at 11:39 AM (#5356099)
Anyone played the new Civ 6 yet?


I've got a 100 hours or so in, over a few games. The 1st game was pretty jarring. Different UI that is a bit of a pain in the ass to get used to - fog & unexplored areas are both sepia toned, and resource icons on the map were cluttered. Districts are very cool, figuring out where to place them around your city is fun aspect. ICS rules, wide empires are much stronger than tall, not really any disincentives to building more cities. Domination victory is the easiest path to victory, science is probably the longest and most tedious now.

There has been a patch out already, they did a good job addressing a lot of the early glaring issues, including smaller changes like coloring resource icons on the map, and the quality of life mods are flowing. After being out for a month 6 is definitely more polished than 5 was soon after its launch.
   551. Covfefe Posted: November 21, 2016 at 12:19 PM (#5356127)
One game I did just purchase on a lark and haven't had a chance to dig into yet is Endless Legend (released back in 2014)...

I suppose any decision for me on civ6 is probably a month or so off pending how that goes.
   552. Greg K Posted: November 21, 2016 at 12:30 PM (#5356134)
One game I did just purchase on a lark and haven't had a chance to dig into yet is Endless Legend (released back in 2014)...

Endless Legend is perhaps the most innovative turn-based 4X game I've played in years (I'm pretty sure the "unstacking" of cities is something the Civ developers picked up from their competitors like Endless Legend - not that they are the only ones that do it). And it looks absolutely beautiful. The different factions are radically different (rather than having bonuses around the edges)...some of which so different that they operate by entirely different rules.

I'm not a huge fan of the combat. Stacked armies march on the map and when they meet you cut to a mini-game where the individual units move around on a map for a set number of turns. I think it's actually executed well, it's just not a format that is my cup of tea.

I don't play it as much as I would because there is no hotseat. It's kind of a quirk of mine, I just prefer to play as all factions in strategy games. But when I decide to play against AI I almost always choose Endless Legend.
   553. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: November 21, 2016 at 12:54 PM (#5356150)
I just got overwatch. Look me up for a match of you play! habeasdorkus #1566.

I like it so far, Pharah is my early favorite.

I have a lot of Civ VI thoughts but will wait til I'm not on my phone to speak my piece.
   554. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: November 21, 2016 at 12:55 PM (#5356151)
Also, endless legend is an excellent, excellent game. One of my favorites.
   555. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: November 23, 2016 at 11:35 AM (#5357315)
Anyone seen any deals on storage? I've got a 1TB HDD that is flaking out on me. Already use a smaller SSD for my OS and a 250GB SSD for programs, but I've kept the larger HDD for pictures and music. Anyone used the hybrid drives? I am assuming I am going to have to replace the large drive with two SSD's...the price on them has come down, but not THAT much.

Also - thoughts on cheaper laptops? I'm a fan of Dell (although I did get a few for my company a few years ago that sucked) and Lenovo for their build quality, but my mother needs a laptop for normal web usage. Anything worth getting in the sub $500 range? Will an HP hold up for more than 2 years?

ETA:

Should mention, I really would prefer a SSD in the laptop, disk size isn't really an issue for her, I can always get her some thumb drives for storage if she really needs them.
   556. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 23, 2016 at 04:07 PM (#5357563)
I think this is a real drawback of the current model of games. It's great in that, if you look at the current iteration of Civ 5 or Europa Universalis IV they are fantastic games. And really, I think that's a product of player feedback and developers continuing to shape the game for years after its initial release. Europa Universalis IV was released in 2013 I believe, but in many ways it isn't "finished" until this final expansion pack was released this year (I believe Rights of Man is out now, right?).

But it means that initial release isn't really putting the game's best foot forward...and in retrospect it seems like barely a game at all. A couple years ago I started having regular Civ 5 sessions with a friend of mine, but he only had the base model. It was borderline unplay-able for me...the fully developed game had spoiled me. Which means you have to have patience with a game as it develops...which is especially asking a lot in the case of Civ 5, when you have an already existing fully developed and mod-supported game in Civ 4 sitting there. [Which, by the way, is another development. Civ 5 has a ####-ton of mods you can use now to tweak just about anything you don't like...which of course, Civ 4 has had for years and Civ 5 didn't have on its initial release]. I sometimes find it annoying, but it's sort of the reality of gaming now, it's almost like you can't accurately judge a game until it's been out for a few years.


There are so many good games to play that I find no problem being patient. I haven't touched Civ 6 and have no plans to do so for two years yet--that's pretty much my policy with all new games now, just disregard them until two expansions/DLCs are out, then evaluate. You end up with better AND cheaper games that way.

A couple months ago I started a lengthy... article or blog, I guess you'd call it, about how IMO, Civ 1 and 2 were in several important ways mechanically superior to their successors. If I ever get it finished I'll post it here. Should spark some discussion even if you all think I'm out of my mind.
   557. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: November 25, 2016 at 08:09 PM (#5358071)
OK, Played Civ on Xbox 360, but never on PC.
Currently on Steam:
Civ 5 for $8, Civ 5 Complete Bundle 92% off at $13
DLC's for $2.74

Civ 4 For $5.49
Civ 4 Complete Bundle for $8.24

What's my purchase?
   558. Greg K Posted: November 25, 2016 at 08:57 PM (#5358084)
What's my purchase?

Zonk will tell you Civ 4. But Civ 5 is the correct option.


All kidding aside, Civ 5 is probably easier for a first time Civ player to get into. Not that Civ 4 is more complicated or anything...there are more opportunities to micro-manage in 4, but it's not like you have to micro-manage.

EDIT: But real REAL answer is get both. Both amazing games, and different enough that they are both worth playing.
   559. Greg K Posted: November 25, 2016 at 09:02 PM (#5358085)
A couple months ago I started a lengthy... article or blog, I guess you'd call it, about how IMO, Civ 1 and 2 were in several important ways mechanically superior to their successors. If I ever get it finished I'll post it here. Should spark some discussion even if you all think I'm out of my mind.

I'd be interested to hear that. I have loved them all in my time...well...maybe not 3. Had a bit of a troubled relationship with that one.

I've gone back and played 2 a few times over the years...always enjoy it. My copy of Civ 1 was for a Mac, which I no longer have, so I haven't played it in ages. My neighbour had it for PC and it was one of the few games where the Mac version was much, much better in terms of look and interface.
   560. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: November 25, 2016 at 09:25 PM (#5358088)
Correct option is to get the complete bundle for whichever game, I'm assuming?
   561. Greg K Posted: November 25, 2016 at 11:28 PM (#5358110)
Correct option is to get the complete bundle for whichever game, I'm assuming?

Oh definitely. In both cases DLC makes the games infinitely better. At those prices they are a no-brainer.
   562. jmp Posted: November 26, 2016 at 01:47 AM (#5358130)
My thoughts on Civ 6:

I enjoy the great persons. Especially for Brazil, they get a 20% refund of points every time they get one, so I racked up quite a few.

The way that other civilizations react is interesting. I'm used to strife from border conflict or religious differences, but these are different. A civ may not like you because you have never been in a war. Or one may not like you because you have not explored enough area. One civ reacts to how much money you have coming in each turn. So that adds a new wrinkle.

Trade seems to be much more important than in previous games. If my understanding is right, having a city engage in trade brings in recurring benefits once the route is established. So your city once big enough may not be able to grow enough food to support itself, but can get the food through trade routes if you can find a city that provides that.

One thing that seems new is that wonders take up tile space. I don't remember that being the case, but my memory is terrible
(seriously, my friend just renewed a vehicle lease after 3 years. I could have sworn it had only been a year). Anyway, I remember being able to have my capital city just become an assembly line for wonders, building 5, 6 wonders in a city. But with this version, they actually take up tile space, so if you want to build a wonder after awhile, you need to destroy a farm or mine that you have built before.

Marathon takes FOREVER. The production time for things is just crazy high.

The game can actually be quite boring on marathon. It takes so long to build things that I would sometimes have like 15-20 turns where I didn't do anything. I'm only on my 2nd game, the next game definitely won't be marathon.

Builders only get 3 actions before they go away, so you don't have the problem I ran into where I would have so many builders running around that it would get dull just finding things for them to do.

I like the new mechanic where you can reduce technology time by 50% through accomplishing something before hand.

Different enough to be fun. But it definitely makes sense to wait for a price reduction.
   563. Langer Monk Posted: November 26, 2016 at 11:23 AM (#5358202)
I agree with everything zonk will have said on Civ 4 vs Civ 5, as I have in the past. I've moved on to Crusader Kings II and Europa Universalis IV.

Both of which are very on sale now. Very.
   564. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: November 26, 2016 at 12:00 PM (#5358210)
Noticed those as well. I think I can jump in and learn Civ quickly, but the others I think would require blocks of time to learn how to play, which I don't really have now.
   565. Greg K Posted: November 26, 2016 at 12:09 PM (#5358214)
Noticed those as well. I think I can jump in and learn Civ quickly, but the others I think would require blocks of time to learn how to play, which I don't really have now.

Yeah, for my money Europa Universalis IV is one of the funnest games ever made.

But it does take several solid sessions to understand what's going on. Civ is much more newbie-friendly.
   566. Dan The Mediocre is one of "the rest" Posted: November 26, 2016 at 12:10 PM (#5358215)
I had 100 hours in CKII and still was learning nuances of the game. But it is an amazing game if you have the time.
   567. Greg K Posted: November 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM (#5358219)
I had 100 hours in CKII and still was learning nuances of the game. But it is an amazing game if you have the time.

With the Paradox games as well depending on what nation you're playing as you could be playing entirely different games in successive playthroughs.

I have 500+ hours on EU IV, but until this summer I hadn't played a North American nation with the newest expansions...entirely different game with different rules and strategies to learn.
   568. Dan The Mediocre is one of "the rest" Posted: November 26, 2016 at 12:27 PM (#5358231)
With the Paradox games as well depending on what nation you're playing as you could be playing entirely different games in successive playthroughs.


Indeed. Oddly enough, the only game where I was able to restore the Roman Empire was one where I started as Castile.
   569. Langer Monk Posted: November 27, 2016 at 11:22 AM (#5358491)
I never figured out CKII, until I started a multiplayer game with a friend. I started with just the county of Orleans at the earliest start, and eventually was elected Emperor of Franca. It's so entertaining. We still have another 100 years or so to play, and then I'll get to relearn EU IV since it's now has so many different updated things again.
   570. Greg K Posted: November 27, 2016 at 11:43 AM (#5358501)
I never figured out CKII, until I started a multiplayer game with a friend. I started with just the county of Orleans at the earliest start, and eventually was elected Emperor of Franca.

I find Crusader Kings is fun when you take the Football Manager approach. Start at the lowest possible level and build your way up! When you start the game as a national leader already you kind of miss out on a lot of the fun of family building.
   571. McCoy Posted: November 27, 2016 at 11:57 AM (#5358505)
How much micro-managing is required in EU IV? I got into EU at the ground floor way back when and sort of got into Hearts of Iron but with HoI and EU II (and even EU when you start building an empire) the level of micro managing needed was just a turn off for me. The simcity and Civ games did the same thing to me as well. Total War gets into this a bit but stays satisfactorily surface-ish deep for me.

Wouldn't mind picking up a new game to play but I can't devote hours each day to it and when I can play I can't dedicate hours to basically checking off boxes in each city and or province.
   572. Greg K Posted: November 27, 2016 at 12:36 PM (#5358521)
How much micro-managing is required in EU IV? I got into EU at the ground floor way back when and sort of got into Hearts of Iron but with HoI and EU II (and even EU when you start building an empire) the level of micro managing needed was just a turn off for me. The simcity and Civ games did the same thing to me as well. Total War gets into this a bit but stays satisfactorily surface-ish deep for me.

EU IV actually doesn't have a great deal of micro-managing. For instance, one of the great leaps forward from previous iterations is to get rid of all that annoying sending merchants to trade notes only to get them booted out again. Also, no more sliders, so you're not micromanaging how much you invest in various areas for research. The customization of your state is no longer done by sliders either...you unlock "ideas" rather than shifting your values back and forth over time.

It still takes a long time to learn what the hell is going on (even if you've played other Europa Universalis games...4 is a pretty dramatic change in most areas). But it's much more elegantly designed. Essentially it's geared towards long-term planning and building up to key moments where you have to make some key decisions, rather than making a lot of little decisions throughout.

EDIT: Another great advance is how the game deals with rebels. In previous games (especially when you had a massive empire) rebel hunting was a constant bore. Unrest is still an influential part of the game, but you usually handle it through various methods of dealing with dissatisfaction before it breaks out into open rebellion. Which involves much less clicking and moving armies around in circles all day.
   573. McCoy Posted: November 27, 2016 at 03:34 PM (#5358566)
So is EU IV with all the bells and whistles worth it over just plain old EU IV?
   574. Greg K Posted: November 27, 2016 at 03:50 PM (#5358568)
So is EU IV with all the bells and whistles worth it over just plain old EU IV?

It's tough to say...when they put out expansion packs they also put out massive free patches that do much (but not all) of what the expansion packs do. So at this point I'm not entirely clear on what is expansion game play and what is natural evolution of the vanilla game play.

Civ 5 without the expansions is borderline unplayable...EU IV (if I'm discerning what I paid for vs. what's free correctly) is still a really good game without taking any of the paid content. I actually haven't bought the more recent ones Mare Nostrum and Rights of Man...the pay content of those expansions doesn't sound game changing to me...but I probably will eventually. It may be worth looking through the expansions to see what you're interested in...

Conquest of Paradise - allows for the option of a randomly generated New World, and creates a whole new style of play for New World civs. Depending on what you want to play there is plenty of fun there

Art of War - again, not sure how much was incorporated into the free patch, but it radically improved how war works, worth getting for that

Common Sense - great for making domestic issues much more interesting...stuff to do even if you're not fighting many wars

In all, I'd say if all the expansions are together in a bundle for sale grab them. Three of four of them make the entire game much better, and the others can each be fun depending on the nations you like to play.

   575. Greg K Posted: November 27, 2016 at 03:58 PM (#5358572)
Looking at the prices...based game for $10 vs. full expansions for $27.

$27 is a steal...but if you're trying it out to see if you actually like the game, the base is great by itself and will give you hours and hours of enjoyment (if the game is your cup of tea). At which point you can wait for sales to pick up the expansions as you go.
   576. GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag) Posted: November 29, 2016 at 06:29 PM (#5359707)
PSA:

Humble Bundle has a current bundle going that has OOTP 2017 in the $1 tier. That's right, for just $1 you can have the current version of OOTP to fiddle around with during the offseason. You even get two other games along with it. That's just the $1 tier. Go check it out.
   577. zack Posted: November 30, 2016 at 12:19 PM (#5360028)
I came here to post that, it's been a decade plus since I've played OOTP but I guess I'm gonna have to now.

The other bundle currently up on humble (which is easy to miss, because there's a second row of tabs now that wasn't there previously) is also solid at all the price levels.
   578. Covfefe Posted: November 30, 2016 at 03:38 PM (#5360225)
I buy OOTP every year, but to be perfectly honest -- I don't think I've seen anything that would constitute a substantial or meaningful upgrade since.... 13 maybe? 14? I think 13 was the big UI update, so 14 smoothed out the wrinkles.

I pretty much just ship a few bucks off to Markus Heinsohn every April as a sort of tribute... plus, of course, not having to bother DLing and tweaking new roster sets. I suppose I also keep hoping that eventually, my consistent purchases will finally lead to my long-requested enhancement: Ability to generate a true "fictional league"... By "true fictional league", I mean history and all, not just fake names on top of the 'actual' players or generating players without a statistical history... but really being able to create a completely fictional MLB and jump into my fictional creation with a true X years of history.

But yes - a buck for an OOTP version you don't have is a dynamite way to spend a dollar.

   579. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: November 30, 2016 at 04:45 PM (#5360288)
Agreed. Always loved the concept of the historical players from random eras. Downloaded it last night and started up a 1977 season using the Montreal Expos with a 20 yo Mike Trout and a 37 yo Yaz. But I haven't finished my first Civ 5 game yet! Conflict!
   580. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: November 30, 2016 at 05:10 PM (#5360304)
Ability to generate a true "fictional league"... By "true fictional league", I mean history and all, not just fake names on top of the 'actual' players or generating players without a statistical history... but really being able to create a completely fictional MLB and jump into my fictional creation with a true X years of history.
Well you can sorta do this already, by creating a fictional league and letting it run on autopilot for X number of game years. I think what you're asking is for Markus to add a feature that does just this, only with no display and a few other tweaks to speed up the process.
   581. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 30, 2016 at 05:16 PM (#5360310)
The big new thing with OOTP 17 was it comes out of the box with FaceGen pictures that actually look like the real (present day) players, right? I never bought it because I'm still playing the long term franchise I started on OOTP 16, but whenever I finally decide to start over I'll definitely buy the latest version.
   582. Langer Monk Posted: December 15, 2016 at 05:07 PM (#5369194)
So, for anyone that ever enjoyed the old X-wing games from the 90s, there is a package on Steam right now that sells X-wing, Tie Fighter, X-wing vs Tie and X-wing alliance, supposedly with all expansions for $16.00 when packaged with 4 other games (Star Wars Classics Collection). The games individually are $9.99 a piece, and the 4 packaged in the X-wing Bundle are $30.00.

I don't ask questions, and I haven't played any of the Steam versions, so good luck, but $16.00 for all 4 is a pretty good deal.
   583. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 10, 2017 at 04:31 PM (#5381180)
My main machine (a six-core Haswell-E on an Asus MB) refuses to POST this morning. I left it running overnight, but it wasn't doing anything particularly CPU or GPU intensive, and I don't know why it shut itself off in the middle of the night. Anybody have any good suggestions for troubleshooting? The MB has some sort of LED indicators, which may cast more light on the situation once I get home.
   584. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: January 10, 2017 at 04:48 PM (#5381198)
The MB has some sort of LED indicators, which may cast more light on the situation once I get home.


That's where I would start. When I was having intermittent issues with my home computer a few months back, I was able to lookup the error code readout on my Gigabyte MB and troubleshoot from there.
   585. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 10, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5381202)
I really don't need this hassle. Le sigh.
   586. madvillain Posted: January 10, 2017 at 06:45 PM (#5381269)
I really don't need this hassle. Le sigh.


Easiest thing to do is just take it to a local shop that has all the tools to diagnose it. POST failure is in order usually 1) bad video card (if not embedded on mobo), 2) bad mobo, ) 3 bad PSU/other short (metal on metal)

But seeing how you didn't just install something that rules out a short for the most part so I'd first clear the CMOS, same problem? ---> remove video card, run off built in video on mobo if possible --> same problem? reseat all PSU connectors, if you have another PSU You know is good, slave it in and test.

At that point if it's still not POSTING it's usually bad mobo, rarely is it CPU.
   587. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 10, 2017 at 07:03 PM (#5381277)
Well, well. The DRAM LED was lit, so I removed a pair of DIMMs, and lo! Power! But then something shorted out and the case filled with smoke. Uh oh.
   588. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 10, 2017 at 07:05 PM (#5381280)
####. Maybe I'll just part this thing out and buy an XOBX.
   589. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 10, 2017 at 09:17 PM (#5381378)
I'm going to take it in to Canada Computers tomorrow and see which parts, exactly, are toast.
   590. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: January 10, 2017 at 09:33 PM (#5381385)
Smoke is really bad! PSU would be my guess at this point, simply because that's the most likely place to cause smoke. Was there a weird acrid smell? That's frequently a PSU capacitor going (which is more likely if you have a Taiwanese or Chinese one instead of a Japanese one).
   591. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 10, 2017 at 09:40 PM (#5381387)
It was definitely a capacitor, and it was on the motherboard, under the heat shroud above the CPU socket. Depending on which parts are toast, I might have a couple of overclocked EVGA Maxwell Titan X 12GB GPUs to sell.
   592. madvillain Posted: January 10, 2017 at 09:42 PM (#5381388)
It was definitely a capacitor, and it was on the motherboard, under the heat shroud above the CPU socket. Depending on which parts are toast, I might have a couple of overclocked EVGA Maxwell Titan X 12GB GPUs to sell.


Could just be one bad cap, maybe find a shop with a good EE locally and see what they think?
   593. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 10, 2017 at 09:45 PM (#5381390)

Could just be one bad cap, maybe find a shop with a good EE locally and see what they think?

We'll see tomorrow.
   594. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 10, 2017 at 09:47 PM (#5381393)
I might take this opportunity to embiggen my case and add more disks to the ZFS zpool, as well.
   595. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:08 PM (#5381395)
You've got multiple Titan X GPUs in there? Man, that's pretty sweet and I crown you King #### of #### Mountain of the nerd thread!

Unusual to see this happen, those various -E motherboards tend to be of quite high quality. I'd contact ASUS about an RMA, they're typically helpful and will frequently cross-ship.
   596. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:56 PM (#5381430)
I did a lot of CUDA work at Samsung Research, and nothing beats the Titan X for the sorts of CNNs I was doing. A happy side effect is game performance under windows.
   597. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:00 PM (#5381433)
If I was still doing caffe and Tensorflow, I'd probably upgrade to the Pascal cards, because tax write off! But eh.
   598. madvillain Posted: January 16, 2017 at 09:12 PM (#5384144)
Unusual to see this happen, those various -E motherboards tend to be of quite high quality. I'd contact ASUS about an RMA, they're typically helpful and will frequently cross-ship.


that reminds me, I totally have an extra e series motherboard laying around but no E series CPU to test it with, if you're interested I'd send it to you it's been sitting at my shop for at least a year, it looks new, but I have no way of testing it. What's the exact socket I'll check and make sure, but isn't there just one socket for E?

Good bless Unreal Engine 4. Maxing out this game Subsistence with dips into the mid 30s on occasion but almost always 50+ (cool game, borrows some from rust but is single player at the moment), with "just" an i3 6100 and R9 380 4GB. OC'ed the GPU a bit (and man Skylake + XMP DDR4 is money) but Unity games maxed at 1440p will not run this smoothly on my rig, MMO or not. Rust especially is unoptimized. Unity in general seems awful compared to UE4 but I guess it's cheaper and more noob dev friendly (from what I've read, wouldn't have a clue really) so must small companies go with it over UE4.

There's a really cool benchmark in an engine that appears quite a bit like UE4 to my eye, you can download it here.

Pascal is amazing, as is Skylake, it's a shame that prices remain as high as they have, but that's the reality of probably the fab process and demand. It's getting harder and harder to justify new computers with each gen of tech, the processor you have from 2013 already blows through the Internet and casual multitasking. If you upgrade to an SSD, you have in some cases a computer better than new.

It's getting tougher to make money fixing them, but there's always money in software, creating and administering and troubleshooting.
   599. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: January 16, 2017 at 10:27 PM (#5384173)
"Hepfully, Sandy Bridge-E and Ivy Bridge-E use a different LGA2011 socket than Haswell-E and Broadwell-E do, theirs called LGA2011-3. Same number of pins, but not electrically compatible, so no BIOS updates that help you. I'd hate to take a part that I don't really need, especially given that you could probably sell it for a good price unseen on eBay - the availability of new LGA 2011 parts has dropped to nothing and people are actually paying more for them in many cases than when they were new.
   600. TFTIO, for one, is sick and tired of winning Posted: January 17, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5384364)
So it's definitely the motherboard. They're benching the CPU and RAM now, so this might just be a cross-ship of the X99-E, which would be a big relief.

I want a PCIe M2 drive, but I can't justify CAD$1800 for the Samsung 960 Pro.
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