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Friday, July 27, 2012

OT: London Olympics Thread

A place to discuss sports that no one cares about for 3.9 years at a time.  Swimming, track, basketball, gymnastics, soccer, whatever.  I like ‘em obscure.

Team Handball: Can France (m) defend their gold?  Can South Korea (w) break the Northern European dominance of the sport?
Fencing: Can the US Women sweep the saber medals again?  How much fencing can I watch online before I realize I’m wasting my life?
Canoe Slalom: Can David Florence bring back gold for Great Britain in this, the greatest and most traditional of all summer olympic competitions?

And more!

Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 27, 2012 at 12:21 PM | 1691 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: olympics

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   401. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 30, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4195819)
Am I doing some wrong or does NBC streaming allow "default" and "full screen" size for their online stuff?
   402. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 30, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4195823)
I think Michael Vick would be an awesome shooter? thrower? from the right side.
   403. Gamingboy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4195826)
Y'know how NBC skipped those memorial segments because they didn't involve anything that would be of interest to Americans?

Tell that to the friends and family of two American servicemen.
   404. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4195864)
Why is it that the Martial Arts sports (Boxing, Judo, Taekwondo, Wrestling) give out two bronze? I think it's because they don't want the fighters to risk injury for "just" a bronze, but is that the real reason?

Don't they still have to fight for the bronzes? There's not just 'two losing semifinalists get bronze', there's a whole system of extra matches and two bronze medal fights.

(At least in judo.)
   405. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4195891)
In all national and world fencing competitions, bronze medals are given out to both losers of the semi-final rounds (I think some local competitions might still fence for third place. And perhaps the Junior Olympics too). The Olympics fences for bronze, which I think makes sense. Most competitions you don't really make a big deal out of the "medal." It's, so and so came in first, so and so came in second, then a tie for third. But an olympic medal has such profound mystique. To just declare a third place tie and hand out two would cheapen it a bit. Fencers will still fight like mad in the consolation bout....just see Vezzali's performance on Saturday.
   406. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4195903)
Women's epee finals starting now!!
   407. Gamingboy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4195908)
There ARE fights for the Bronzes, but, like, I think there are still two bronze medal winners.



Also, based on what I'm seeing in my twitter feed, the US Men's Gymnastics team that was supposed to be the Greatest American Men's Gymnastics Team of All Time... isn't. At least, not on this day.
   408. rfloh Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4195910)
"If you think of handball as being like basketball, this is a bug, not a feature. If you think of it as being like soccer, it's a feature, not a bug. Think of soccer with greater contact allowed, to discourage flopping. Because kicking is a more violent act than anything done in handball, they can't really relax contact rules in soccer without turning it into a blood sport. In handball, it works well."

Or more correctly, the contact rules in soccer were once more relaxed, and it did kinda turn into a blood sport, with skilled players being kicked into retirement, by being kicked repeatedly in the knees and ankles, with goalkeepers notoriously clotheslining opposing forwards.

   409. tshipman Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4195918)
Women's epee finals starting now!!


Gaah. Stupid MSNBC showing women's basketball instead of fencing.

BTW: Men's Saber was unwatchable. There was zero defense, just two guys lunging at each other every 1.5 seconds and both screaming and fist pumping after each clash.
   410. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4195920)
Men's sabre has become ridiculous. Epee is more of a precision game, with two fencers trying to nip each other's toes and wrists. Foil is the most telegenic with the most back and forth swordplay.
   411. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4195923)
Also, you can stream the fencing on the live video on the NBC olympics site. Even if you don't have a cable company login, you can get a 4 hours pass with any email address.
   412. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4195930)
The PA announcer at the fencing arena is currently trying to get the crowd to do the wave between bouts.
   413. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4195940)
I think NBC's "gold zone" channel, which hops around to a lot of different sports, is free as well.
   414. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4195944)
i watched the cross country on tv and when i had to do some work i was listening to it via my iphone

the wizardry of the 21st century is a bit unsettling at times

that is a serious comment
   415. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4195961)
The most bullshit-tastic thing just happened in women's epee. Will have to explain once my gasket is unblown.
   416. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4195964)
Yeah, that was a second in name only. The South Korean is right to be pissed. What's the tiebreak after that? A coin flip?
   417. villageidiom Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4195970)
Thought exercise: How many days of practice would Team USA basketball need to compete for a medal in handball? I say 5.

In five days they couldn't even adapt to proper dribbling instead of carrying. And they probably couldn't get more than a couple shots past a good goalie, nor learn to defend their goal at all.

Give them several months or a year, it's plausible. But I think it's far more likely that the NBA players suited to handball are not on the USA basketball team; it would take most of that time to sort out who the best candidates are, then more time to train them.

OTOH, at least USA Basketball wouldn't have to adapt to the rule that you can take three steps after you stop dribbling.
   418. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4195971)
Yeah, the Korean had the priority. They do the the coin flip before OT (why not just let them fence for one more touch?? Never got that one). So it's a difference between the German winning and the Korean winning.

How you can have THREE touches without a second running off is mind boggling. The first double touch that came at 1 second, ok. But the second? It's like they never started the clock. Then they let it run down during the halt, so the ref put the whole second back on.

GET A CLOCK WITH TENTHS AND HUNDREDS! ITS THE FREAKING OLYMPICS!
   419. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4195972)
Jason Pierre-Paul should be on any US handball dream team.
   420. Gamingboy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4195974)
US Men Gymnasts sort-of recovered to take fifth. What's really amazing is that the Brits took Silver and the Japanese fell all the way off the medal stand.

Also, I read somewhere (Might have been The Classical) that the star of the US Women's Team Handball team is basically a former volleyball and softball player who only picked up the sport after softball was dropped from the Olympics and she didn't make the volleyball team.
   421. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4195976)
This. Is. A Disaster.

For the olympics. For the sport of fencing. Complete and utter ###########. This would be embarrassing if it happened at a Y12 in Busckport, ME.
   422. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4195977)
They do the the coin flip before OT


That is really stupid, and explains why the Korean was fencing so defensively. And not having a clock with hundredths of a second is also really stupid. Which is too bad, because I'm finding epee to be only slightly less awesome than foil. Like dueling with deathwands.
   423. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4195980)
Like dueling with deathwands.

Yeah, the precision of epee fencing can be fun. It's gotten better since they instituted rules to prevent noncombativity (bouts going all three rounds and ending 3-2 were not unusual). Also there are no weird right of way rules for the uninitiated.

But this is horrible.
   424. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4195987)
Do the only honorable thing and just let them fence for another minute with sharps to first blood.
   425. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4195993)
I'm "game chattering" in the fencing.net forum. Here is a post that sums it up for the curious.

"Second things first Yes, this has 'major incident' written ALL over it.

Basically, as time is running down in the extra minute (Shin has priority), there's a series of doubles, One with one second left on the clock. Referee resets fencers engarde too close together, tries to fix it, Heidemann takes a step forward, repeat several times...

One second on the clock:
Engarde, Pret, Allez...
Hediemann advance-fleche, double touch.
Still :01 on the clock.

Repeat above...
This time it sounded like the clock didn't start at all.
After the halt, time keeper starts clock, time expires...

Referee puts a full second back on the clock (since that's all you can do with these boxes (pretty much any fencing box)), Korean coach protests...

Engarde-ready-fence:

Touch for Hediemann...

Cue Koreans flipping out....

And that's where we're at."
   426. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4196003)
weekly

the other fencer was from where?
   427. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4196004)
Wow does that suck for Shin A Lam. Korea gets screwed again! Someone tell Joey B!

HW: Germany
   428. Gamingboy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4196006)
Controversy in Gymnastics: upon appeal, a score was changed for Japan. Now they are in silver, UK is in bronze and Ukraine is out of it, and I'm sure people are not happy in London and Kiev.
   429. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4196012)
US Women very impressive over #2 Brazil in W-Vball 3 games to 1. There were some controversial roster selections on this team, but so far Berg has played very well at Setter and Jordan Larson and Destinee Hooker (everyone's favorite name) have been expectedly dominant. Logan Tom officially looks like an adult and kinda old. I'd bet they will face Brazil again in the medal round.
   430. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:26 PM (#4196016)
First major doping accusation! http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/30/ye-shiwen-world-record-olympics-2012?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT758I2
   431. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4196026)
Ok I just watched a field hockey penalty in the Argentina-UK match. Play is stopped and a couple defending players go to a box behind their goal and put gloves and a face mask - and I saw one guy grab a cup! The UK ended up scoring but that was crazy.

In normal play, field hockey seems like a faster paced soccer with less control of the ball. I can't believe they have to hunch for the ball and can only use one side of the stick. I also can't imagine blocking a shot with your body.
   432. JJ1986 Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4196028)
I don't understand why it's okay to accuse someone of doping based on absolutely nothing. Even if she is doping, voicing the suspicion without a positive test just makes you look like a horribly sore loser.
   433. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4196029)
scott

thanks. i was just curious.

   434. Howie Menckel Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4196036)

some Swiss athlete just got dumped for a racist tweet
so scoreboard for Olympics expulsion so far is:

Steroids: 2
Twitter: 2
   435. bachslunch Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4196042)
Is 'Destinee' the worst possible first name for a girl whose last name is Hooker? Seems unnecessarily cruel by whomever made that decision.

And then there's this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ima_Hogg

Shooting at a live target might be a smidgen controversial though.

Back at the Paris 1900 Olympics, they had a live pigeon shooting event. Here's one mention:

http://www.whqr.org/post/live-pigeon-shooting-and-other-odd-olympic-games



   436. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:49 PM (#4196046)
How good would Trainor and Walsh be on the regular volleyball team?
   437. hokieneer Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:50 PM (#4196047)
Thanks for the update WJ in #425. I just got out of a 2+ hour meeting to turn on the epee finals and I was completely confused. 2 camera shots from NBC: a group of 6-7 judges/coaches/IOC people talking, and a competitor sitting all alone practically in tears.
   438. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4196054)
The poor Korean fencer is STILL sitting on the strip. She will not leave. I assume it has to do with some sort of formal appeal process.

The winning fencer was German.
   439. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4196055)
Poor Shihn. What a travesty. There is something so forlorn about her sitting out there alone.
   440. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4196061)
And a bunch of Korean guys are trying to argue in French. hilarious
   441. bachslunch Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4196063)
Have enjoyed much of what I've watched this far, though like many here, I found dressage dull as dishwater. My sister calls it "horse dancing."

Boxing has been surprisingly interesting -- maybe it's just me, but have found Teddy Atlas's commentary very interesting and informative. That's one nasty scar on the side of his face, though.
   442. hokieneer Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4196065)
The poor Korean fencer is STILL sitting on the strip. She will not leave. I assume it has to do with some sort of formal appeal process.

I jumped back in the feed, nearly an hour, to the end of the match. 3 restarts in :01, and then the judge still felt the need to add another :01 back. I know next to nothing about fencing, but it seems the Korean fencer was screwed big time.
   443. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4196073)
Though that last touch by the German was nice. Pris de fer in 2.
   444. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4196074)
shades of 1972 men's basketball
   445. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4196084)
Why not make it sporting and have the last second last four seconds, instead of three seconds, and give her a chance to tie?
   446. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4196085)
The crowd is now going nuts for Shin in the bronze medal match.
   447. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4196086)
The South Korean media is going to have a field day with the Epee semifinal. They're 100% nationalist in their coverage, even trying to figure out ways to claim that they "won" each olympic games. Though, that's been my experience with all South Koreans, it's a nation with a napoleon complex. Just get them started on the various travesties they must avenge against the Japanese, North Koreans, and Chinese (in that order, and they have pretty good reason to hate the Japanese).

edit: Rather, all South Koreans that I've gotten into political arguments with. Not all South Koreans.
   448. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4196091)
another funny wrinkle: to file a protest you need to pay $100 or something like that. Part of the delay was apparently someone going to an ATM.
   449. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4196095)
Ah, the Albanians of Asia. Albanians have at some point been oppressed by Serbs, Turks, Greeks, Germans, Italians, and of course Macedonians. However, as a half secular-Muslim and half secular-Orthodox country they hate everyone in an entirely non-sectarian way.
   450. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:24 PM (#4196098)
Shin strong out of the gate against Sun of China, up 6-3. I hope to god she wins the bronze medal at least.
   451. Swedish Chef Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4196101)
Lithuania got a gold!
   452. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4196103)
All tied up now. Go Shin! Both because you got jobbed out of at least the silver AND because China already has altogether too many medals!
   453. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4196104)
How good would Trainor and Walsh be on the regular volleyball team?


they are obviously making better $$$ playing beach volleyball, than indoor but Walsh probably wouldn't make this year's roster IMO, even if she would definitely be a servicable OH on the team, though at 34, not nearly as durable (she's had shoulder surgery) as the younger folks on the team. No insult to Walsh, just don't think she'd could take the grind of indoor at this age with that many swings on her. In her hay day, she was every bit as talented as Destinee Hooker, Logan Tom and Jordan Larson. The US team is really good this year.

Misty May, doubt it, as I can't remember the last time she played indoor (1999?) (she didn't like the grind) and she's had a couple surgeries, including achilles after the Dancing with the Stars app., she's 35, nah, though she'd still be good enough to play Setter for some of these other countries. I'm not dogging her, she was an awesome player at LBSU (NCAA POY) in the mid late 90s though.
   454. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4196105)
GLORIOUS TOE TOUCH FOR SHIN!
   455. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4196108)
Shin up 9-7 now. USA holding on to a 10-9 lead in the 3rd quarter of women's water polo over the Hungarians.
   456. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4196114)
oh no, Shin falls behind. Being behind late in epee is bad news.
   457. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:35 PM (#4196119)
:( I think it's over
   458. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:35 PM (#4196121)
Aww, gonna be tough for Shin now.
   459. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4196123)
Over.
   460. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4196126)
Water polo has always struck me as one of the most difficult sports to play. I'm a pretty good swimmer, but I couldn't imagine playing a full game of water polo without near drowning.
   461. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4196132)
Well, I hope Heidemann gets stomped at least.
   462. Gamingboy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4196133)
Shinn's big mistake was that she seems to have not kept her epee. I mean, I'd have kept it, and when the officials tried to move me off and tell me the appeal was denied I'd have gone: "Really? Want to try that?"
   463. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4196134)
BTW, anyone notice that these fencers are almost all really cute?

I mean, they aren't all Sylwia Gruchala, but definitely easy on the eyes, most of them.

http://www.gdanskfencing.com/img/zawodnicy/2_1114631637.jpg
   464. bunyon Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4196135)
So, was there an appeal and it was over-ruled?
   465. bunyon Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4196136)
So, was there an appeal and it was over-ruled?
   466. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4196137)
Gamingboy: It's an epee!!!
   467. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4196141)
More Sylwia Gruchala, poland's #1 women's foilist.

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/6/5193/z5193776X.jpg
   468. Gamingboy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:44 PM (#4196142)
Gamingboy: It's an epee!!!


Fixed.
   469. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:44 PM (#4196143)
http://www.kronikasportu.pl/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=38
   470. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4196144)
In this finals you really get a sense for the difference between pommeling (holding a straight grip by the very end to increase your reach) and using a standard pistol grip which fits snugly in the hand. The former gives reach, the latter power and control. The fencer on the right is pommeling.
   471. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 30, 2012 at 03:59 PM (#4196163)
Thank God heideamann lost. Her winning the silver is an embarrassment, her winning the gold would have been a catastrophe. Great match, though.
   472. Gamingboy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4196209)
Apparently NBC Sports Network will be doing stuff about Epeegate once the Italy-Japan volleyball game is done.
   473. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4196239)
Olympic volleyball players have legs that go on for days, huh? Jeez I wish I was like a foot taller and much more attractive so I could date some of those Italian players.
   474. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 05:07 PM (#4196249)
Olympic volleyball players have legs that go on for days, huh? Jeez I wish I was like a foot taller and much more attractive so I could date some of those Italian players.

I dunno, for whatever reason a lot of men don't like tall women, so maybe you'd still have a chance. I'm with you, though.
   475. bunyon Posted: July 30, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4196254)
I dunno, for whatever reason a lot of men don't like tall women, so maybe you'd still have a chance. I'm with you, though.

In my experience, tall women don't like dating shorter men, either.
   476. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4196273)
I dated a middle blocker in college, she was 6-3, about an inch taller than me, but the legs were long for her body, which meant they were really long. For some reason, long legged girls in volleyball look so much better than long legged women in basketball. I just think they are more athletic (most) than their basketball counterparts.
   477. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 30, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4196278)
Also, you can stream the fencing on the live video on the NBC olympics site. Even if you don't have a cable company login, you can get a 4 hours pass with any email address.


Could someone provide a link to do this? I don't have cable TV, so I can't access the site normally. I looked at the NBC site to try to find where to get the four hour pass, but I couldn't find it.
   478. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4196289)
edit: double post
   479. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4196300)
The women playing volleyball seem more lithe than those playing basketball, but I'm not sure why that'd be the case. Different muscle groups used, maybe?
   480. villageidiom Posted: July 30, 2012 at 06:14 PM (#4196305)
Also, I read somewhere (Might have been The Classical) that the star of the US Women's Team Handball team is basically a former volleyball and softball player who only picked up the sport after softball was dropped from the Olympics and she didn't make the volleyball team.
I get that. There isn't much support for handball in the US, so they can pick up someone polyathletic and plug them into a team, and have it work out reasonably well.

But there's a huge distinction between "good enough to be on the US team" and "medal-worthy", at least in that sport. Heck, right now there's a huge distinction between the former and "good enough to qualify for the Olympics". If you can qualify by winning the Pan Am Games, but your team goes 0-5, losing a match to the eventual qualifier (Brazil) by a score of 50-10, you have a long way to go.
   481. JJ1986 Posted: July 30, 2012 at 06:16 PM (#4196307)
Basketball jerseys and shorts are extremely unflattering on women too.
   482. Kurt Posted: July 30, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4196309)
The women playing volleyball seem more lithe than those playing basketball, but I'm not sure why that'd be the case. Different muscle groups used, maybe?

If you're doing it right, volleyball is not a contact sport. Basketball players should be expected to be more muscular.
   483. Gamingboy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4196410)
Okay, the Ye Shiwen doping questions. Is this just us Americans/Westerners being sour grapes, or might it really be something.

I mean, China does have a rather ugly history as far as doping and other bendings of the Olympic rules, and the state-run program of the Chinese isn't that different from the USSR and East German programs that, lord knows, kept up with and often surpassed our free-market doping. And the jump in her numbers are rather striking.

But on the other hand... she's just 16! It's not like she's been swimming for years and then suddenly at the age of 25 became a world-beater. It's entirely possible she went through a spurt. And it also isn't like she has come out of completely nowhere- SI had her projected as winning silver in the 200 IM....
   484. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 30, 2012 at 07:45 PM (#4196417)
in case it wasn't understood the horses used in dressage are the same ones doing cross country and so on. it's not a new mount for the event.

   485. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 30, 2012 at 07:50 PM (#4196425)
Oh wow, I just assumed dressage and cross country were totally separate events, so obviously I did not understand. Cross country is watchable, dressage is not.
   486. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 30, 2012 at 08:10 PM (#4196447)
the origins of these events go to the calvary.
   487. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 30, 2012 at 08:24 PM (#4196462)
dressage tests the rider/horse in synch

cross country tests bravery

jumping tests stamina/strength

   488. rfloh Posted: July 30, 2012 at 08:27 PM (#4196465)
" Gamingboy Posted: July 30, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4196410)
Okay, the Ye Shiwen doping questions. Is this just us Americans/Westerners being sour grapes, or might it really be something.

I mean, China does have a rather ugly history as far as doping and other bendings of the Olympic rules, and the state-run program of the Chinese isn't that different from the USSR and East German programs that, lord knows, kept up with and often surpassed our free-market doping. And the jump in her numbers are rather striking.

But on the other hand... she's just 16! It's not like she's been swimming for years and then suddenly at the age of 25 became a world-beater. It's entirely possible she went through a spurt. And it also isn't like she has come out of completely nowhere- SI had her projected as winning silver in the 200 IM....
"

China, East Germany, the USSR / Russia, are not some amorphous blob. The USSR / Russia (some of the sports scientists, coaches) actually viewed the East Germans with disdain, even contempt. Just because the programs are overtly state supported and run does not mean that they are all the same.

For one, China, (like the USSR / Russia in the past), is succeeding in a wide variety of sports, men and women, from weightlifting to gymnastics to diving to ping pong to shooting to even synchronised swimming. If they are engaging in systematic doping, that means they have discovered a whole passel of undetectable performance enhancing substances, or a whole variety of techniques to evade detection.

What is far more likely, especially based on people who have seen their various sporting programs, including Chinese coaches who have left and are working in other countries, is that they have a rational and systemic method of sports development (and in the sport I am most familiar with, and follow most closely, weightlifting, they have a very rational system of development, with national and provincial training centres), backed up by government money, in a society with a very large population, where even with all the economic growth over the last 20 years, the funding provided by the government is a big incentive for a young athlete as a way out of poverty.

Russia is no longer all that succesful because the money has been reduced significantly, the system has fallen into (somewhat) disrepair.

Ye Shi Wen might be doping. But, it is unlikely that the entire Chinese swimming program, or even worse, the entire Chinese sports program is doping.
   489. Srul Itza Posted: July 30, 2012 at 08:29 PM (#4196470)
Let me know when they have an event where they ride in the Roman Style, a la "Rio Grande".
   490. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 30, 2012 at 08:54 PM (#4196498)
the origins of these events go to the calvary.


Cricufixion?


Good.
   491. Swedish Chef Posted: July 30, 2012 at 09:16 PM (#4196513)
If they are engaging in systematic doping, that means they have discovered a whole passel of undetectable performance enhancing substances, or a whole variety of techniques to evade detection.

This has been done before with limited resources by BALCO.

The nice thing with state-sponsored doping is that you get the synergistic effects from running both doping and anti-doping labs.
   492. rfloh Posted: July 30, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4196526)
"This has been done before with limited resources by BALCO.

The nice thing with state-sponsored doping is that you get the synergistic effects from running both doping and anti-doping labs."

No it hasn't. What BALCO did is absolutely nothing compared to what would need to be done for dope to win in the wide variety of sports that the Chinese are winning in. It would mean that in at least certain aspects of sports physiology, and biochemistry, the Chinese are WAYYYYYY ahead of the rest of the world.
   493. Sunday silence Posted: July 30, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4196528)
the chinese girl broke her personal best by 5 sec. which seems a lot for 200 meter. I think one of the young Australians did that back at Melbourne but I dont think it was by that much.
   494. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 11:26 PM (#4196637)
Yi Shiwen also has the face of a teenager and the body of an East German swimmer. Her head looks incongruous on her body. Now, she's only 16 and it simply could be natural. But I'd say it's even odds for her to get her medal taken away in the next decade.
   495. Zipperholes Posted: July 30, 2012 at 11:34 PM (#4196652)
The Chinese men just made that pommel horse their #####.
   496. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 30, 2012 at 11:49 PM (#4196666)
So the appeal process DOES indeed require a $100 deposit. The Japanese coach brought cash to the judges table to challenge. This could not be more hilarious. Roger 'Why does he have cash with him?' This is as funny as it was described to me.

as was also done in the fencing appeal.
   497. Kurt Posted: July 31, 2012 at 12:09 AM (#4196673)
Yi Shiwen also has the face of a teenager and the body of an East German swimmer.


She doesn't look that freakish to me.

I did like the headline in this post, which I came across while googling her.

Edit: For the sake of comparison, here are some East German swimmers.
   498. Swedish Chef Posted: July 31, 2012 at 07:56 AM (#4196764)
So the appeal process DOES indeed require a $100 deposit. The Japanese coach brought cash to the judges table to challenge.

It's as if they want to make it look shady.
   499. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 31, 2012 at 08:33 AM (#4196783)
Men's foil is on now and god it is awesome.

Race Imboden, USA's best foilist in 50 years, is shredding the crap out of some hapless Brazilian in the round of 32.

If Race wins (not really in doubt at this point, up 11-4) he will face former world champ Andrea Baldini of Italy in the round of 16. Tough draw, but he can do it!
   500. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: July 31, 2012 at 08:38 AM (#4196785)
Race is through to 16. Watch out Baldini.

Note on Baldini: he was suspended from Athens for testing positive in a drug test. I think he was later cleared.
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