Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, March 19, 2013

OT: March Madness Thread—

For some reason the OT: College Basketball Thread has been closed, just in time for March Madness.  So let’s use this thread for all of our NCAA Tournament discussion (and NIT, CBI, et al).

The title link goes to Ken Pomeroy’s 2013 NCAA tournament log5 predictions for each round of the tournament.

VoodooR Posted: March 19, 2013 at 11:04 AM | 641 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 7 pages  1 2 3 4 5 6 >  Last ›
   1. boteman digs the circuit clout Posted: March 19, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4391188)
For some reason the OT: College Basketball Thread has been closed

Call me madcap, but maybe it's because this is a baseball forum? Crazy, I know!
   2. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 19, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4391194)
I'm not sure what's a more tiresome discussion, 'which region is toughest' (this isn't pool play) or a guy telling me about all five of his bracket entries.
   3. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: March 19, 2013 at 11:52 AM (#4391209)
The advanced stats LOOOOOVE Florida, none of the non-statistically inclined pundits and analysts do. Makes for an interesting test case.
   4. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM (#4391235)
Call me madcap, but maybe it's because this is a baseball forum? Crazy, I know!


I heard there was a lawn somewhere here, but should I stay on it or not? Hmmmm.
   5. Chicago Joe Posted: March 19, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4391246)
The advanced stats LOOOOOVE Florida, none of the non-statistically inclined pundits and analysts do. Makes for an interesting test case.


Florida had a pretty nice year: Some quality non-con wins and their non-con losses were tough. Think the pundits are unfairly dinging them for losing any games in the SEC, which is not a good conference. Also, they don't have any good non-con road wins, but lost their only two opportunities (at Arizona and K-State) by a combined total of 7 points. Not a Gator fan, by any means, but the criticism is a little off, IMO.
   6. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 19, 2013 at 12:11 PM (#4391257)
I know whenever I get together with a bunch of baseball fans, we immediately ostracize anyone who brings up a topic unrelated to baseball.
   7. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: March 19, 2013 at 12:17 PM (#4391267)
I'm betting a penny on Liberty...so I can win $41,646,927.91!
   8. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: March 19, 2013 at 01:21 PM (#4391360)
Also, they don't have any good non-con road wins, but lost their only two opportunities (at Arizona and K-State) by a combined total of 7 points.


That pretty much seems to be the dominant narrative with Florida and the knock against them. There's a lot of "lost by a painfully small number of points" on this resume, while there is literally no "won by a painfully small number of points". It's silly in some ways (UF overcame a 10-point second half deficit to beat Alabama, but because they did too good a job making up the points and won by 10 it's not a "close" game and doesn't count), but it's been a consistent enough issue that even the most passionate Florida fans have to worry about it.
   9. Toolsy McClutch Posted: March 19, 2013 at 01:22 PM (#4391366)
As a Canuck, I'm excited to be going to my first college hoops games ever, the sweet 16 and elite 8 games in LA.

Tips?
   10. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 19, 2013 at 01:47 PM (#4391415)
My Final Four: Bob Jones University, Renesselaar Polytechnic Institute, Michigan, and Devry Institute of Technology.
   11. VoodooR Posted: March 19, 2013 at 01:47 PM (#4391417)
I think Florida is good, probably one of the best five or six teams this year. But I kinda doubt that they are head and shoulders above the field, as the efficiency numbers seem to indicate. Ken Pomeroy himself as also stated as much.

I'm not sure what's a more tiresome discussion, 'which region is toughest'


What is most annoying -- to me at least -- is that the consensus seems to be that the West region is the weakest, yet they have four of the KenPom top 10 teams in their bracket. As pointed out by someone in the NBA thread -- Gonzaga (#4 KenPom) may have to go through 8-seed Pittsburgh (#7 KenPom), 5-seed Wisconsin (#7) and 2-seed Ohio State (#5) to get to Atlanta.

Of course, KenPom rankings aren't gospel -- like WAR in baseball they are a good place to start the discussion, as opposed to the final say -- and I strongly suspect that his numbers are seeing something in Pittsburgh that just isn't there in reality.
   12. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 19, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4391656)
The reason the 'which is toughest' is so annoying is the fact that it doesn't matter, this isn't pool play, the 1 seed in any region doesn't have to play the 2 and the 3 seed, and in some years plays neither.

The relative 'strength' of a 4 and a 5 is meaningless in terms of 'toughest bracket, the #1 only has to play one of them, presumably the winner of the 4/5 game is the 'better team' at least on that day.

   13. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: March 19, 2013 at 04:18 PM (#4391691)
so this guy on ole miss who apparently specializes in being a jack8ss. is he any good?
   14. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 19, 2013 at 04:28 PM (#4391701)
Here's draftexpress's list of prospects by team.
Massey ratings (aggregator).

EDIT:
Neat - I was never on that (BJ Young) page.
Revised link.
   15. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: March 19, 2013 at 04:33 PM (#4391706)
so this guy on ole miss who apparently specializes in being a jack8ss. is he any good?


Henderson takes the old "quantity has a quality all its own" approach to shooting, but when you can drain a decent percentage of a crapton of shots, it has value. And he can hit some high degree of difficulty shots. Pretty decent passer. Not a particularly good defender, but he likes to poke and reach, which means he creates a fair number of steals and intercepts some passes. Not much size, not a good ball handler.

Always a chance he'll go 3 of 18 and shoot Ole Miss out of the tournament, but since they're barely worthy of being there in the first place that's hardly a disaster.
   16. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: March 19, 2013 at 04:35 PM (#4391713)
Der, the Draft Express link goes to a page on BJ Young.
   17. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 19, 2013 at 04:42 PM (#4391728)
Thanks CFBF - replacement link works.
   18. VoodooR Posted: March 19, 2013 at 04:58 PM (#4391745)
According to the Der K link, the two teams team with the most draft prospects on their roster are both #8 seeds.... Pittsburgh and North Carolina each have 10 so-called prospects.
   19. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 19, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4391752)
Pitt spent about a decade as a #1 through #3 seed, got knocked out in the Sweet Sixteen every year and the only guys who ever made it in the pros were Dejuan Blair, Sam Young and Aaron Gray. Maybe this change is what they need.
   20. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 19, 2013 at 09:24 PM (#4392019)
Watching UK play at Robert Morris is funny to me.
   21. Pirate Joe Posted: March 19, 2013 at 09:28 PM (#4392027)
According to the Der K link, the two teams team with the most draft prospects on their roster are both #8 seeds.... Pittsburgh and North Carolina each have 10 so-called prospects.



As a long time Pitt season ticket holder, let me just say that list is ridiculous. It includes a player who has already transferred from Pitt, to Fairfield no less, (Gilbert), and numerous guys who have no chance to see the inside of an NBA arena without buying a ticket. Trey Zeigler, for example, is a guy who mostly plays the two (with a little one and three thrown in) who has not attempted a three pointer all season. Not one. How is a two guard who won't even shoot the ball from beyond about 12-15 feet any sort of an NBA prospect?

The only Pitt player who is a surefire NBA player is Adams. He's a big, athletic seven footer who is from New Zealand and has not played a lot of basketball, so he is very raw. But all the tools are there. When he can start just playing the game instead of having to think the game he is going to be a very good one.

   22. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 19, 2013 at 09:33 PM (#4392033)
I wouldn't read too much into whether or not a player has a link - that meant it was thought at one time that it would be worth it to create a page. I looked at guys in the top 100...
   23. thok Posted: March 19, 2013 at 09:53 PM (#4392054)
Watching UK play at Robert Morris is funny to me.


Watching UK lose is funnier.
   24. Chicago Joe Posted: March 20, 2013 at 11:07 AM (#4392374)
Anybody else a little disappointed about MTSU? Where are the Murray States of yesteryear?
   25. The Good Face Posted: March 20, 2013 at 11:31 AM (#4392400)
The only Pitt player who is a surefire NBA player is Adams. He's a big, athletic seven footer who is from New Zealand and has not played a lot of basketball, so he is very raw. But all the tools are there. When he can start just playing the game instead of having to think the game he is going to be a very good one.


Confirming. He already has an NBA body as a freshmen, and is a legit seven footer with impressive athleticism; not the stereotypical big clumsy white guy. If he stays healthy and works on his game, he's pretty much a lock for at least an NBA bench guy career. Depending on how he turns his tools into skills, he could be a star.
   26. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 11:40 AM (#4392411)
[24] No -- St. Mary's is really really good. I'm curious to see how this tournament plays out. My suspicion is that it is incredibly well-selected and seeded. But we'll see how that holds up to reality.
   27. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 20, 2013 at 11:46 AM (#4392417)
There are two lower seeds that are Vegas favorites - Minnesota over UCLA, and Pitt over Wichita State.

There are a lot of others that are pretty close. Two point spreads or lower: Illinois over Colorado (1), Notre Dame over Iowa State (1), San Diego State over Oklahoma (1.5), Memphis over St. Mary's (1.5), Creighton over Cincy (2).

The biggest first round spread seems to be Louisville over NC A&T (26.5) although Indiana does not have an opponent yet.
   28. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: March 20, 2013 at 11:55 AM (#4392429)
cf

thanks. wisconsin's losses to the likes of davidson and cornell have been due to shooters getting hot and their defensive approach of surrendering the mid-range jumpter biting them big time
   29. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4392437)
[27] Ken Pomeroy rankings:

Minnesota (11 seed): 23
UCLA: (6 seed): 46

I'll take the underseeded team over the overseeded team every time.

Pitt (8 seed): 7
Wichita State (9 seed): 32

Wichita State is seeded roughly correctly. I don't get the Pitt seeding -- are they getting punished for their non-conference SOS?
   30. Metternich Posted: March 20, 2013 at 12:06 PM (#4392444)
What's the general consensus on Jim Boeheim (as a coach, not a person)? On the Syracuse blogs and forums that I frequent, I never see intelligent, critical analysis of his strengths and weaknesses. Even the mildest criticisms are dismissed with inane responses like, "Have you won 900 games?".

My opinion is that having won so many games, appeared in three title games and won one, and being one of the few coaches who have built an elite program, he has to be considered a great coach, or at least a very good one. On the other hand, he has weaknesses (some early Tournament exits, a relatively weak stretch in the 90s, occasional failures to make tactical adjustments), and some of these flaws (namely, a rigid over-reliance on the zone) have intensified in recent years.

In any case, I rank him in the second tier of elite coaches, below Izzo, Krzyzewski, Calhoun, et. al.

   31. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4392452)
[30] Sounds about right. You can't argue too much with his results. I think the flaws are legitimate, but I think that also gets into coaching theorycrafting.
   32. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 20, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4392454)
That's pretty much how I feel, Metternich... though I'm not so opposed to the rigid reliance on the zone.
   33. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: March 20, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4392455)
their defensive approach of surrendering the mid-range jumpter biting them big time


Well, Henderson will take mid-range jumpers if you give them to him. Frankly, he'll take them even if you don't, so that's something on which to keep an eye.
   34. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4392458)
I wonder how much the use of the zone is Boeheim (successfully) playing the long-term EV of his strategy. One of my thoughts on your initial post was "I wonder if he'd do worse if he tried to do more?"
   35. VoodooR Posted: March 20, 2013 at 12:54 PM (#4392503)
Where are the Murray States of yesteryear?


St. Mary's
   36. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 01:19 PM (#4392554)
Finally, officially:

Butler
Xavier
Creighton

are joining

Georgetown
Villanova
Providence
St. John's
DePaul
Marquette
Seton Hall

in the new Big East. Creighton was a happy surprise, but I can understand the Midwest contingent wanting another school in that direction.
   37. GregD Posted: March 20, 2013 at 01:31 PM (#4392571)
Julius Randle--#2 player in country--commits to UK over Kansas who had been the favorite. By the 247 composite, they have commitments from #2, 4, 5, 9, 11 and 15 in the country and are in the final 2 or 3 for the #1 player, Andrew Wiggins. Though I doubt they get Wiggins.

   38. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 20, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4392589)
On the other hand, he has weaknesses (some early Tournament exits, a relatively weak stretch in the 90s, occasional failures to make tactical adjustments), and some of these flaws (namely, a rigid over-reliance on the zone) have intensified in recent years.


What great coach hasn't had early tourney exits? Duke seems to be the best at avoiding this, but even they've been snakebit (Lehigh, West Virginia, Providence, Cal). Roy was always getting upset early at KU (UTEP, Rhode Island, Virginia). Jim Calhoun had early losses to San Diego and NC State. For years it seems Lute Olsen's Wildcats were a good bet to get upset.

When you're consistently great, you're going to have a lot of first round exits simply because you have more chances to be upset. It also sticks out in our mind more because its surprising.

Boeheim is absolutley one of the great of all-time. The thing about great coaches is how high the standards get. You say he had a soft stretch in the 90s, but when was this? Only twice in that decade did they fail to make the tourney, and one of those years was right after he reached the National Championship game, the other was a probation year. And I'm not saying you or Syracuse fans are unique in that regard, fans at Duke, UNC, KU, UCLA, UConn and Kentucky and a few other schools are like that too. Anything less than a Final Four year is considered a down year. But its the fact those standards are so unbelievably high that is why Boeheim deserves to be in that upper echelon of coaches.
   39. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 01:55 PM (#4392614)
Going back to [24] though, the inability of the Ohio Valley Conference (or teams in it) to build on their tournament success is a bit disappointing.
   40. VoodooR Posted: March 20, 2013 at 02:18 PM (#4392635)
What tourney success has the OVC had to build on? Yeah, Morehead State won a game recently. So did Murray State. Other than that ... uh?

Their best shot at getting into the Sweet 16 might be this year with a veteran and talented Belmont squad (though while I think they can beat Arizona, Michigan State will be a tall task).
   41. VoodooR Posted: March 20, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4392638)
Finally, officially:

Butler, Xavier, Creighton in the new Big East. Creighton was a happy surprise, but I can understand the Midwest contingent wanting another school in that direction.


I wish there was some way that Gonzaga could get in on that, but geography seems to preclude it. There just doesn't seem to be any way the Zags can improve their conference situation, short of adding and developing a football program (a daunting task).
   42. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 02:28 PM (#4392648)
[41] The basketball teams could probably afford the travel (though it would be a drag), but there's more sports than just basketball. Yeah, the WCC is Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and a lot of dreck. Gonzaga is in a lousy position conference-wise, but they seem to be making the most of it.

[40] Am I confusing the OVC with the MVC?
   43. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 20, 2013 at 02:39 PM (#4392666)

[40] Am I confusing the OVC with the MVC?


The MVC is one of the best mid-major conferences in the country. They frequently get teams seeded pretty high (#4-8). Northern Iowa recently knocked off Kansas and made the Sweet 16. Southern Illinois, Wichita State, and Bradley have all made the Sweet 16 recently.

The OVC usually gets seeded in the #12-14 territory. Murray State has had a strong program and I think has been seeded higher than that at times. Morehead State pulled off an upset in 2011, but the conference is not one of the stronger mid-majors as a whole. The addition of Belmont should raise the profile a bit though.
   44. just plain joe Posted: March 20, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4392670)
[40] Am I confusing the OVC with the MVC?


Probably not, Morehead State and Murray State are in the OVC. They have both been in the OVC for as long as I can remember; fairly recently the conference has experienced some member movement but it is still relatively compact as far as geography is concerned. The MVC has probably had 30 different members in the past 50 years; Creighton and Wichita State likely have the longest tenure of any of the current schools. Losing Creighton to the Big East will definitely hurt the MVC as Creighton has consistently been one of their top basketball programs. I don't know if the MVC will try to poach some other school or not, but having a 9 team conference isn't the best thing in the world.
   45. VoodooR Posted: March 20, 2013 at 02:51 PM (#4392693)
Southern Illinois, Wichita State, and Bradley have all made the Sweet 16 recently.


What happened to Southern Illinois? The Salukis were one of the top mid-major programs in the nation for a considerable stretch of time, and then all of a sudden they dropped off the map and they've been among the dregs of that conference for several years now.
   46. Rennie's Tenet Posted: March 20, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4392704)
I wish there was some way that Gonzaga could get in on that, but geography seems to preclude it


This is college athletics. Geography wouldn't preclude it if they were in Gonzaga, Mongolia.
   47. bunyon Posted: March 20, 2013 at 03:05 PM (#4392721)
Julius Randle--#2 player in country--commits to UK over Kansas who had been the favorite. By the 247 composite, they have commitments from #2, 4, 5, 9, 11 and 15 in the country and are in the final 2 or 3 for the #1 player, Andrew Wiggins. Though I doubt they get Wiggins.

No, but I bet they can land Bean.
   48. Metternich Posted: March 20, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4392740)

When you're consistently great, you're going to have a lot of first round exits simply because you have more chances to be upset. It also sticks out in our mind more because its surprising.
These are both good points, and I really don't even know if Boeheim has more early exits than other coaches with comparable appearances and seedings.
You say he had a soft stretch in the 90s, but when was this?
I guess I was using that as shorthand for the period from SU's probation in the early 90s to the mid-00s, when Boeheim started consistently pulling in top 10 recruiting classes. Of course, this is pretty ridiculous given that this period included a national title and another championship game appearance. I just tend to discount those two years (probably unfairly) because neither team dominated in the regular season, and one relied so heavily on one historically great college player.

I mean, this period isn't weak by most standards; it just didn't have the regular season success of the last five years or the late 80s. And, like you say, calling this period "weak" speaks to the high standards expected of elite coaches.

The zone comments are interesting. What's the argument--that the performance advantage gained by exclusively playing and practicing zone outweighs the situational benefit conferred by selectively playing man? I could see that, but I suspect that Boeheim's shift to literally never playing man stems more from old age-related stubbornness and bad memories of the LeMoyne debacle than a careful consideration of the strategic pros and cons.
   49. Mike Emeigh Posted: March 20, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4392743)
I don't get the Pitt seeding -- are they getting punished for their non-conference SOS?


Pretty much. They don't have any quality wins outside of the Big East, and only two quality road wins in conference (at Georgetown and at Cincinnati). They played poorly in the Big East tournament game against Syracuse. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them lose to Wichita State.

Roy Williams has been whining about the North Carolina seed, but basically their situation is similar - no good out-of-conference wins (plus a bad loss at Texas) and no quality road wins in conference (unless you want to count Maryland).

I think the NCAA is in the process of cracking down on teams that don't play good games out of conference.

-- MWE
   50. VoodooR Posted: March 20, 2013 at 03:58 PM (#4392793)
This is college athletics. Geography wouldn't preclude it if they were in Gonzaga, Mongolia.


Preclude is the wrong word, I suppose. But if it were not for geographical considerations, the Zags would certainly have been invited to join the new conference. They have had as much success, and arguably are a bigger "brand", than any of the other schools in the conversation.
   51. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 20, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4392796)
that the performance advantage gained by exclusively playing and practicing zone outweighs the situational benefit conferred by selectively playing man?

yup.
   52. I am going to be Frank Posted: March 20, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4392803)
in the new Big East. Creighton was a happy surprise, but I can understand the Midwest contingent wanting another school in that direction.


Omaha is pretty far from the two nearest Big East schools (Depaul/Marquette).
   53. stanmvp48 Posted: March 20, 2013 at 04:25 PM (#4392830)
Apropos of nothing: I remember as a kid, that the University of Houston was in the Missouri Valley conference. In the 1950s. Quite a geographic anomaly.
   54. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 04:27 PM (#4392835)

This is college athletics. Geography wouldn't preclude it if they were in Gonzaga, Mongolia.


No, that's college football, which can afford it, for football teams.
   55. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 04:30 PM (#4392840)
The zone comments are interesting. What's the argument--that the performance advantage gained by exclusively playing and practicing zone outweighs the situational benefit conferred by selectively playing man?


Essentially. I could see an argument for Boeheim saying "I don't want to teach two defenses, only to do both worse than I would if I played zone exclusively; I am also not a sufficient in-game tactician to be good at knowing when to play which and how to adjust each accordingly. I have won 900 games. #######."
   56. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 04:31 PM (#4392843)

I think the NCAA is in the process of cracking down on teams that don't play good games out of conference.


I 100% support this.
   57. Chicago Joe Posted: March 20, 2013 at 04:52 PM (#4392894)
Probably not, Morehead State and Murray State are in the OVC. They have both been in the OVC for as long as I can remember; fairly recently the conference has experienced some member movement but it is still relatively compact as far as geography is concerned. The MVC has probably had 30 different members in the past 50 years; Creighton and Wichita State likely have the longest tenure of any of the current schools. Losing Creighton to the Big East will definitely hurt the MVC as Creighton has consistently been one of their top basketball programs. I don't know if the MVC will try to poach some other school or not, but having a 9 team conference isn't the best thing in the world.

The MVC gave rise to the Big 8/12, and housed many of the schools in the CUSA at one point or another. I bet they wind up picking up Nebraska-Omaha, partly just to stick it to the Bluejays.
The OVC has a similar history, having at various times had schools like Louisville, Marshall, and Western Kentucky.
   58. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 20, 2013 at 05:20 PM (#4392947)
I've got to think that the MVC can do better than UN-O.
   59. Metternich Posted: March 20, 2013 at 05:20 PM (#4392949)
I could buy the arguments in favor of solely playing zone, though I'm a bit ambivalent w/r/t SU specifically. Looking at KenPom's adjusted D ratings for the last few years, Syracuse has consistently been in the 15-30 range. So, on the one hand, they've played better defense than the vast majority of D1 teams, but, on the other, they've played slightly worse defense than other elite teams.

To continue the Syracuse and Boeheim theme, what do people think of SU players' relative lack of success in the NBA? Evidence that Boeheim has achieved more with less or an indictment of his ability to develop players? Or just a random artifact of a small sample size?
   60. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 20, 2013 at 05:23 PM (#4392954)
Would it be fair to call him a system coach, recruiting people who fit his system, as opposed to going after the top NBA candidates (not that he doesn't want those too)?

Signed,
an unofficial member of the Stephen Thompson fan club.
   61. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 20, 2013 at 06:15 PM (#4393017)
I don't know if the MVC will try to poach some other school or not, but having a 9 team conference isn't the best thing in the world.


There is talk of St. Louis rejoining now that the A-10 isn't quite as good without Xavier and Butler, and Charlotte and Temple leaving too. Dayton may want to join too if that's the case.

There is also some talk of inviting Oral Roberts. I think I read Eastern Illinois might be a candidate. But I suspect they're in a good position as is, and expansion just for the sake of expansion would just dilute their brand. Nine teams isn't bad for a mid-major, and I think you'd rather have nine decent programs than start inviting teams that can't quite compete. The last time they expanded was Evansville, and that hasn't really added to the conference at all.


To continue the Syracuse and Boeheim theme, what do people think of SU players' relative lack of success in the NBA? Evidence that Boeheim has achieved more with less or an indictment of his ability to develop players? Or just a random artifact of a small sample size?


People say the same thing about Coach K and Duke. And Roy when he was at KU. Its probably hard to produce a ton of top NBA talent, especially when for awhile the top players were skipping college entirely, or were coming from overseas.
   62. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2013 at 06:19 PM (#4393026)

There is talk of St. Louis rejoining now that the A-10 isn't quite as good without Xavier and Butler, and Charlotte and Temple leaving too. Dayton may want to join too if that's the case.


There has been talk of St. Louis joining the new Big East. They're a Catholic (Jesuit) no-BCS-football institution.

Temple was already leaving the A-10, to join the football portion of the used-to-be-Big-East. I have no idea if they'll stick with that plan.
   63. Conor Posted: March 20, 2013 at 07:09 PM (#4393066)
The biggest strength Boeheim has is that he's pretty much never had a bad team. His worst team was 16-13 in 1982. One of my favorite stats about his record is that he's finished below 500 in BE play 2 times in his career, and both years that happened he won the conf tournament.

To coach for 36 years and to be a very good team in nearly all 36 years is pretty amazing, though for a chunk of the career in the middle (basically the period mentioned before, the sanctions to Melo showing up) the team was more good than really good. The highs aren't as high as the truly elite coaches, but there are basically no lows. I may be biased but I think he has to be in the top 10 or so college coaches of all time
   64. Conor Posted: March 20, 2013 at 07:13 PM (#4393073)
The biggest strength Boeheim has is that he's pretty much never had a bad team. His worst team was 16-13 in 1982. One of my favorite stats about his record is that he's finished below 500 in BE play 2 times in his career, and both years that happened he won the conf tournament.

To coach for 36 years and to be a very good team in nearly all 36 years is pretty amazing, though for a chunk of the career in the middle (basically the period mentioned before, the sanctions to Melo showing up) the team was more good than really good. The highs aren't as high as the truly elite coaches, but there are basically no lows. I may be biased but I think he has to be in the top 10 or so college coaches of all time
   65. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 20, 2013 at 08:40 PM (#4393131)
   66. SoSH U at work Posted: March 20, 2013 at 11:28 PM (#4393264)

Signed,
an unofficial member of the Stephen Thompson fan club.


We need to have a meeting.
   67. smileyy Posted: March 21, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4393767)


Of course, KenPom rankings aren't gospel -- like WAR in baseball they are a good place to start the discussion, as opposed to the final say -- and I strongly suspect that his numbers are seeing something in Pittsburgh that just isn't there in reality.


Well, they're down 47-35 with < 10 minutes left.
   68. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:13 PM (#4393819)
I think my bracket is already dead.
   69. JJ1986 Posted: March 21, 2013 at 05:30 PM (#4393824)
St. Mary's had a really dumb sequence down the stretch. Failed to inbound a ball in time, then fouled after about 20 seconds - clock was reset to 35, then finally fouled after 13 more seconds to send Memphis to the line.
   70. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:40 PM (#4393865)
what is Coach McGurk/Archer/Dr. Katz doing telling me to drink soda?
   71. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 21, 2013 at 06:46 PM (#4393868)
The devil, you say!
   72. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:04 PM (#4393909)
Michigan looked terrible for the start of the game, but they look like they'll be fine from here on out.
   73. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:26 PM (#4393923)
My clever pick of Belmont over Arizona isn't looking so good right now. Will be interesting to see how Gonzaga responds to a really poor performance today too.
   74. Rafael Bellylard: A failure of the waist. Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:34 PM (#4393930)
FWIW, on TruTV an ad has been appearing for a show starring Shaquille O'Neal. The commercial mentions O'Neal as weighing 325 pounds.

Therefore, I'm 9 inches shorter than he is, and outweigh him by 10 lbs. I'm not convinced.
   75. thok Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:36 PM (#4393931)
Is it just me, or has Cal-UNLV been a really fun game so far? (It's not just the fact that it's tied; both teams have shown a lot of good energy and skill.)
   76. Rafael Bellylard: A failure of the waist. Posted: March 21, 2013 at 08:40 PM (#4393932)
This is college athletics. Geography wouldn't preclude it if they were in Gonzaga, Mongolia.


Have you seen the Pacific Coast League lately?
   77. frannyzoo Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:21 PM (#4393951)
I'll admit I'm walking into this thing pure "two timer," as in pretty much just follow Days One and Two of the Tourney, then loses interest as horrible bracket culminates in horribleness...

But why is Cal the 12 and *UNLV the 5 seed?

*And I'm cheating a bit as I can't help but see/hear of the Rebels living in ABQ.
   78. thok Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:41 PM (#4393961)
I'm amused by Thurman's game so far for Cal. He understands he has exactly one offensive move: the dunk.
   79. The Ghost fouled out, but stays in the game Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:51 PM (#4393971)
Not a flagrant foul, please.

Oh ####.
   80. The Ghost fouled out, but stays in the game Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:55 PM (#4393975)
Cal had that streak of Thurman's dunks, then didn't have a Plan B ready when UNLV managed to stop them.
   81. The Ghost fouled out, but stays in the game Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:56 PM (#4393977)
Who needs Plan B?
   82. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: March 21, 2013 at 09:56 PM (#4393978)
Wow, epic fail on that FT defense by UNLV

And failed free throwing by Cal
   83. The Ghost fouled out, but stays in the game Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:03 PM (#4393980)
I don't know which is worse, that FT defense, or Cobb's FT shooting.
   84. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:09 PM (#4393985)
No one covered themselves in glory at the end of Cal-UNLV. Cal had about 13 opportunities to put the game away with free throws, UNLV let one player grab a rebound through four of their guys and missed free throws of their own and the officials screwed UNLV out of about five seconds when they missed an obvious foul.

So, well done by all.
   85. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 10:46 PM (#4393998)
Earlier in the week, when the refs called a foul for shoving in the Richmond-Charlotte game, every sports personality went on air to say "the officials shouldn't call that; they need to swallow their whistles at the end of the game and let the players play." Now the same people are going on air to complain about the refs not calling a foul at the end of the UNLV-Cal game. Keeping track of the unwritten basketball rules is exhausting.
   86. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: March 21, 2013 at 11:06 PM (#4394007)
Earlier in the week, when the refs called a foul for shoving in the Richmond-Charlotte game, every sports personality went on air to say "the officials shouldn't call that; they need to swallow their whistles at the end of the game and let the players play." Now the same people are going on air to complain about the refs not calling a foul at the end of the UNLV-Cal game. Keeping track of the unwritten basketball rules is exhausting.


Sorry, I should have been more clear. The missed foul was not one committed by a Cal player on a UNLV player. The refs missed UNLV grabbing a Cal player when they were intentionally fouling with about six seconds to left.
   87. bunyon Posted: March 21, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4394011)
I think Oregon and Cal were badly seeded. However, if they really are 12s why are they (especially Cal) playing a home game (not a home game so much for Oregon, but much closer to them than OSU?

Still, they should have been higher (and OSU (sorry, OkSt, my OSU)) should have been lower. Would have been a good 7/10 game. Oregon/St. Louis should be a good game.
   88. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: March 21, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4394012)
Assists: VCU 13, Akron 3

Turnovers: Akron 18, VCU 2

This is how you get a score like 77-35.
   89. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2013 at 11:31 PM (#4394020)
The refs missed UNLV grabbing a Cal player when they were intentionally fouling with about six seconds to left.


That's what I was referring to. The "grab" was much less severe than the shove in the Richmond-Charlotte game, yet the refs are supposed to call one and "let them play" in the other.
   90. thok Posted: March 21, 2013 at 11:37 PM (#4394022)
The refs missed UNLV grabbing a Cal player when they were intentionally fouling with about six seconds to left.


I couldn't tell for sure, but it seemed like the UNLV player whiffed on the intentional foul and only grabbed air. The ref would have seen that better than I did.
   91. PJ Martinez Posted: March 21, 2013 at 11:52 PM (#4394031)
Who is the goofball play-by-play guy doing the Harvard-New Mexico game? "He believes in his Snellf." "Things were breaking bad for New Mexico."

I kind of like it.
   92. hokieneer Posted: March 22, 2013 at 08:23 AM (#4394079)
I think Oregon and Cal were badly seeded.


There was some pseudo explanation from the committee about Oregon being a 12 because of the travel arrangements with regard to the first 4 games in Dayton. From what I could gather they were originally seeded at least 1 if not 2 lines higher, but moved down to accommodate other seeds.

I feel good about one of my bracket ideas of the MWC being overrated. I didn't have any of their teams into the second weekend, and only had NM and CSU winning in the 1st round. I almost picked Harvard, but I figured NM could squeak by a very average ivy league team before getting ran off the court by Arizona.
   93. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:14 AM (#4394098)
After 1 day each of my 4 brackets has only lost 1 sweet sixteen team. Of course, one of those brackets had NM getting to the final 4, but that bracket is my "Rick Majerus is secretly guiding St. Louis to the finals" bracket so it's really more of a hedge than a real effort.

Really jealous of my parents, they're in Austin this week and bought tickets for the NCAA games there tonight. They get to see my alma mater, Minnesota. I told them I want them to wear anything maroon and gold they could find.
   94. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:23 AM (#4394101)
Who is the goofball play-by-play guy doing the Harvard-New Mexico game? "He believes in his Snellf." "Things were breaking bad for New Mexico."


According to this link, it's Doug Gottlieb and two guys I've never heard of. The play-by-play guy is someone named Spero Dedes.
   95. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:27 AM (#4394105)
The tournament is great, but lord do I hate the end of game breaks, and that CBS goes to commercial for every 30-second timeout. It almost makes radio coverage preferable.

I'd love to see the college game do away with allowing teams to call timeouts after they score.
   96. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:31 AM (#4394108)
I have fond memories of a rainy afternoon, painting a bedroom, and listening to the ending this game on the radio.

(sorry for the triple post)
   97. hokieneer Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:38 AM (#4394112)
Watching online, the commercial breaks are worse. I heard H. Jon Benjamin ask me to go drink a soda at least 14,954 times yesterday. Apparently no one else wants to invest in streaming ads or CBS/NCAA has a bug in their ad-serving software.
   98. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: March 22, 2013 at 09:59 AM (#4394134)
I know it's bad form to call attention to one of your own jokes and that it wasn't particularly funny, but my #71 was some mighty fine referencing. Anyhoo...

Spero was a goofball, yes.

Akron's PG is off the team for a drug arrest - not so handy v. a swarmy VCU squad.

I absolutely call that foul in the Richmond/Charlotte game.

   99. SoSH U at work Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:17 AM (#4394161)
I absolutely call that foul in the Richmond/Charlotte game.


I don't know you can not call that foul in that game. The idea that the refs shouldn't "be deciding the games" at the end of a contest is ludicrous. If you ignore obvious fouls, you're pretty much deciding the game.

I feel good about one of my bracket ideas of the MWC being overrated.


So what were your less-validated other bracket ideas?
   100. hokieneer Posted: March 22, 2013 at 10:35 AM (#4394174)
So what were your less-validated other bracket ideas?


Had St. Mary's making a 2nd weekend run. I have Gonzaga in the elite 8. I might have overrated the power WCC teams.

Also had an idea that offensive eff is more important in the tournament than defensive eff, esp with how pathetic the scoring has been this season. That led me to pick Pitt over Wichita St., St. Mary's over Memphis, CSU over Missouri (got one right), Ok St. over Oregon. Today I have NC State over Temple, Creighton over Cincinnati, Iowa St over ND (thought hey are both really good in that category, this is more of a gut pick I guess), OU over SDST, Illinois over CU. Yet I can't even consistently follow my own advice as I have Wisconsin over Old Miss.
Page 1 of 7 pages  1 2 3 4 5 6 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
BFFB
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogCalcaterra: Blogger Murray Chass attacks me for bad reporting, ignores quotes, evidence in doing so
(12 - 2:20pm, Apr 24)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogNY Times: The Upshot: Up Close on Baseball’s Borders
(5 - 2:19pm, Apr 24)
Last: Karl from NY

NewsblogKeri: Slump City: Why Does the 2014 MLB Season Suddenly Feel Like 1968?
(38 - 2:19pm, Apr 24)
Last: tfbg9

NewsblogPelicans' patient Gallo hits three homers | MiLB.com News
(3 - 2:19pm, Apr 24)
Last: herb

NewsblogMatt Williams: No problem with Harper's two-strike bunting
(19 - 2:14pm, Apr 24)
Last: Sunday silence

NewsblogToronto Star: Blue Jays pave way for grass at the Rogers Centre
(9 - 2:13pm, Apr 24)
Last: Karl from NY

NewsblogJosh Lueke Is A Rapist, You Say? Keep Saying It.
(243 - 2:11pm, Apr 24)
Last: CrosbyBird

NewsblogMichael Pineda ejected from Red Sox game after pine tar discovered on neck
(91 - 2:06pm, Apr 24)
Last: Sunday silence

NewsblogOMNICHATTER for 4-24-2014
(17 - 2:05pm, Apr 24)
Last: Rickey! In a van on 95 south...

NewsblogOTP April 2014: BurstNET Sued for Not Making Equipment Lease Payments
(2519 - 2:00pm, Apr 24)
Last: Rickey! In a van on 95 south...

NewsblogThe Five “Acts” of Ike Davis’s Career, and Why Trading Ike Was a Mistake
(64 - 1:47pm, Apr 24)
Last: Ray (RDP)

NewsblogDoyel: How was Gerrit Cole not suspended? He basically started the brawl
(39 - 1:45pm, Apr 24)
Last: ellsbury my heart at wounded knee

Newsblog4 balls, you’re out!
(59 - 1:44pm, Apr 24)
Last: Sunday silence

NewsblogColiseum Authority accuses Athletics of not paying rent
(19 - 1:34pm, Apr 24)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogOT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2014
(506 - 1:23pm, Apr 24)
Last: Jimmy P

Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats

 

 

 

 

Page rendered in 0.8851 seconds
52 querie(s) executed