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Tuesday, July 08, 2014

OT: Monthly NBA Thread- July 2014

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: German aggression and Israeli aggression of entirely different types.

andrewberg Posted: July 08, 2014 at 08:17 PM | 1081 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba, off topic

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   501. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 14, 2014 at 05:53 PM (#4750293)
the bulls wanted randolph so the fact that they have to dump him now should be held against their front office and only their front office.

As far as I can tell, no, they didn't. The Nuggets insisted on the Bulls taking his contract in the McRibblets deal. Bulls agreed, in either a moment of panic or just hubris that it would be easier to dump him. They were hoarding cap space for a Melo run, so it didn't make a lot of sense at the time to accept him as part of the deal (he also couldn't be included in a larger S&T, so everything about him has been a hassle for the Bulls). Say what you will about Randolph, but he definitely is not a Thibs type of player so it was always a long, long shot he would be sticking around. 3 2nd round picks aren't going to sink the franchise, but giving picks away for the sake of giving picks away isn't the best way to run a team.
   502. GregD Posted: July 14, 2014 at 06:20 PM (#4750318)
The Mudiay story is producing different claims. He and Larry Brown say it is not academic eligibility issues but amateurism, but others are saying academics was at the heart of it. Who knows?

I wonder what the market for these guys is overseas. Especially on a one-year deal? (obviously no one will sign a two-year-deal and mess up their draft status.)

Somebody who became a true celebrity could do it--even Wiggins might have--but I don't think the best player every year is going to get hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to play overseas at 17 or 18 on a one-year-deal. He's not likely to step in and dominate, is likely to need lots of hand holding, and then will be gone. If he's not a big marketing draw, I suspect most Euro teams can do better.

Now, if the NBA really went to the two-year-wait, you could imagine some good intl teams thinking they'd get real value out of the second year.
   503. madvillain Posted: July 14, 2014 at 06:37 PM (#4750337)
As far as I can tell, no, they didn't. The Nuggets insisted on the Bulls taking his contract in the McRibblets deal. Bulls agreed, in either a moment of panic or just hubris that it would be easier to dump him. They were hoarding cap space for a Melo run, so it didn't make a lot of sense at the time to accept him as part of the deal (he also couldn't be included in a larger S&T, so everything about him has been a hassle for the Bulls). Say what you will about Randolph, but he definitely is not a Thibs type of player so it was always a long, long shot he would be sticking around. 3 2nd round picks aren't going to sink the franchise, but giving picks away for the sake of giving picks away isn't the best way to run a team.


Everything hinges on if McBuckets is actually a solid starter by midway through the season. If he is, OK, great, your scouting process worked and you made the deals based on your scouting. If he's not a starter, then well, you gave up way too much.
   504. Manny Coon Posted: July 14, 2014 at 06:51 PM (#4750341)
I wonder what the market for these guys is overseas. Especially on a one-year deal? (obviously no one will sign a two-year-deal and mess up their draft status.)

Somebody who became a true celebrity could do it--even Wiggins might have--but I don't think the best player every year is going to get hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to play overseas at 17 or 18 on a one-year-deal. He's not likely to step in and dominate, is likely to need lots of hand holding, and then will be gone. If he's not a big marketing draw, I suspect most Euro teams can do better.


Jennings got something $1.65 million after taxes, then made another couple million or so on sponsorship. He ended up contributing very little to his team though, so don't know if that hurt the market. Tyler wasn't as successful as Jennings, his contract in Israel was for $140K, but he also made some money in a few other leagues.

Wiggins I think could have gotten paid pretty well in Europe, but it would have been a lot riskier than the NCAA where he was unremarkable but still the number 1 pick.
   505. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 14, 2014 at 07:25 PM (#4750366)
Of course the Bulls were paid to take Randolph...
-
I can see disagreement here, but I'd still be tempted to take Randolph on a min contract if I've a bad team. Career PER of 16.5 (though efficiency, defense, team quality have hurt his WS/48) and he won't be 25 for a few days...
   506. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 14, 2014 at 08:28 PM (#4750402)
Milwaukee fans: what was wrong with Ilyasova last year?
   507. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: July 14, 2014 at 09:43 PM (#4750435)
Milwaukee fans: what was wrong with Ilyasova last year?

He badly sprained his ankle and missed all of preseason, and then battled it all season and never really got it going. His contract is looking pretty rough now but I think he could bounce back and make it look like not a complete overpay, probably not for the Bucks but a team where he's a better fit.
   508. GregD Posted: July 14, 2014 at 09:51 PM (#4750442)
   509. Into the Void Posted: July 15, 2014 at 12:27 AM (#4750479)
   510. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: July 15, 2014 at 02:07 AM (#4750498)
Be serious. His tattoo says 2012 NBA Champs.
   511. rr Posted: July 15, 2014 at 02:45 AM (#4750503)
Long Simmons piece on Carmelo Anthony (includes embedded video of James Dolan and his band in performance):



link
   512. rr Posted: July 15, 2014 at 02:51 AM (#4750506)
"Honestly, I was offended by the whole process," Parsons told Yahoo! Sports on Monday. "They publicly said that they were going out looking for a third star when I thought they had one right in front of them. I guess that's just how they viewed me as a player. I don't think I've scratched the surface of where I can be as a player and I think I'm ready for that role.

"You can't knock them for always trying to get better. [Houston general manager] Daryl Morey is very aggressive, is a genius, a great GM and I have nothing but respect for those guys. And they are looking to make their team better. That's what they were doing. I just thought I could be that guy that could do that."


link
   513. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: July 15, 2014 at 06:38 AM (#4750517)
I know it shouldn't make me as angry as it does, but that Simmons article is terrible and filled with misinformed opinion, half truths and white lies.
   514. Scott Lange Posted: July 15, 2014 at 07:05 AM (#4750518)
Can you be specific, 513? I haven't read it yet, but I always enjoy a good Simmons-fisking so I'm curious what to look for.
   515. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: July 15, 2014 at 08:54 AM (#4750532)
[514] The first problem is that he defines a superstar as a player capable of taking an average team and virtually guaranteeing that they win 45-50 games. He does this and then not only does he not place Dirk in the superstar category he places him 2 levels below in the All Stars category. 1 level above in the "Not Quite Superstars" category? Carmelo Anthony. This might seem like a small thing, but it's amplified by the fact that he spends much of the article championing the Melo cause vis a vis Dirk. And yes, I know that he admits that Dirk was better than Carmelo is, but he doesn't realize that Dirk still has an argument for being better than Carmelo or the size of the gap between past Dirk and present Melo.

He compares Dirk's 2011 playoff line to Carmelo's 2009 line to argue that there isn't much difference. Dirk shot 49-46-94 and Melo shot 45-36-83. Those numbers are included, but somehow glossed over.

"He’s one of the NBA’s eight or nine best players and has been for some time." This statement was made in the same article where Simmons points out that Melo only reached his current level 1 season ago: "You realize that Carmelo is better right now than he's ever been, right?"

Simmons frames Dirk as having a coaching advantage by referring to Don Nelson as a "HOFer," Carlisle as a "future HOFer," and Avery Johnson as "made a Finals and also won 67 games in a season." Meanwhile, George Karl is "coached 1887 games and only won 2 Finals games," Mike D'antoni is "sadly he coached again" and Mike Woodson is "now a career assistant."

According to Simmons, Carmelo "suffered bad luck... when his agent didn’t follow LeBron’s and Wade’s lead by putting a three-year out into Melo’s first contract extension (with Denver)." IIRC, this is completely false. Melo (as is his wont and has been his MO his entire career) wanted his money locked in and wanted the 4 year deal. It wasn't bad luck as Melo just isn't the guy willing to risk anything when it comes to his paycheck.

There's a line about no one on the Knicks being able to create slash and kick jumper opportunities for Melo when (a) that's literally Ray Felton's lone skill and (b) that's hilariously the thing that got D'antoni fired and Lin moved along, Melo's insistence on not wanting to play that way (even though he eventually gave in somewhat on that fight with Woodson).

I'll stop now.
   516. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 15, 2014 at 09:48 AM (#4750558)
I actually have had the feeling for a while that Sports Guy Simmons would not have been a Carmelo fan at all, whereas Hollywood Simmons can't get enough of him. It might be unfair, but that's what it is.
   517. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: July 15, 2014 at 10:09 AM (#4750568)
[516] Not sure what you mean, but FWIW, at the time the Melo trade was made a lot of Knicks fans hated it and Simmons came down hard on them/us because he felt it was clearly a good deal for one of the top players in the NBA and you always trade scrubs/role guys for stars. Couple that with the general stathead crowd's dislike of Melo and Simmons has sort of placed himself in a position where he is still awaiting vindication for his viewpoint.
   518. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 15, 2014 at 10:24 AM (#4750577)
Of course the Bulls were paid to take Randolph...

Not to my knowledge. I haven't seen money changing hands listed in any write-ups of the transactions. Have a link? If they were, how much does it normally cost to buy a 2nd round pick these days? If the money the Bulls got is enough to buy 3 2nd rounders - which is essentially what they gave away - maybe I'll be a little less annoyed by it (but not really, since the Bulls aren't strapped for cash).
   519. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: July 15, 2014 at 10:38 AM (#4750585)
Is it the general consensus that the Melo deal was bad for the Knicks or is the jury still out now that he's reupped and he might be key in attracting another superstar? One pro for the deal is that they did have that over 50 win season. I guess the big con is that I have no assets and no roster flexibility.
   520. GregD Posted: July 15, 2014 at 11:07 AM (#4750601)
Is it the general consensus that the Melo deal was bad for the Knicks or is the jury still out now that he's reupped and he might be key in attracting another superstar? One pro for the deal is that they did have that over 50 win season. I guess the big con is that I have no assets and no roster flexibility.


At the time I thought it was terrible. I actually think it's more confusing now. One challenge to evaluating it is taking into account the future contracts of the people the Knicks traded. So they traded guys who were cheap (Chandler and Gallinari and Mozgov) but Gallinari now makes $10 mill and Chandler $6.3 and Mozgov $4.4 (though he's not gone up much since the deal. The other obvious unknown is Gallinari's recovery.

So you can make the trade look awful for the Knicks by comparing what they got to their 2011-2012 salaries, or you can make it look good for the Knicks by comparing the 2013-2014 production to the 2013-2014 salaries (totally unfair since you have Gallinari getting more than $10 million not to play.)

I like Gallinari a good deal and hated to see him go.

In retrospect--and this I think was clear at the time--the move the Knicks really should have made was to amnesty Amare and ride Billups' contract when they got Tyson Chandler, which would have given them a better-balanced team and more salary flexibility going forward. But Guitar Jimmy is not that cold hearted.
   521. bob gee Posted: July 15, 2014 at 11:09 AM (#4750602)
i don't think the knicks obtaining melo was bad.

however, they paid a lot more than they had to, since denver was a few months away from melo's free agency. i don't believe other teams had better offers than the knicks on the table, and then dolan stepped in and they made it a much bigger deal for the nuggets.

it didn't turn out to be a disaster for the knicks - i think mozgov is now the best piece? but initially it looked like it would be galinari - but they could have gotten him cheaper with a little patience.
   522. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: July 15, 2014 at 11:14 AM (#4750605)
[520, 521] You're leaving out the draft pick the Knicks gave the Nuggets this year as well as the '16 draft pick the Nuggets have the right to swap.
   523. Conor Posted: July 15, 2014 at 11:32 AM (#4750611)
If the Knicks didn't add Billups in the trade, they never would have had to amnesty him to make room for Tyson, and they could have used it on Amare last summer. And then maybe they never trade for Bargs. A guy can dream
   524. steagles Posted: July 15, 2014 at 11:42 AM (#4750620)
I'm hoping this isn't Steagles...

http://deadspin.com/76ers-fan-gets-2015-nba-champs-ass-tattoo-1605103830
i am not nearly that much of a #########.
an example of why Cleve should have taken Noel over Bennett
not just that, but count the steps. that's a walk.

two things:
1, i went to a korean BBQ place last night; it was my first time at that restaurant, it was my first time eating korean BBQ; they had one TV and it was playing NBA summer league. i will be eating there again.

2, there was a nerlens noel interview on the starters yesterday; they asked him why he didn't like swatting shots 20 rows into the crowd and he said because it's not productive. the guy is gonna be a stud.
   525. GregD Posted: July 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM (#4750635)
Yes it is a ridiculous walk!

Noel blocked more shots per minute played than Davis, I believe. And Calipari said he has better blocked shot instincts.

He doesn't have Davis frame (Davis is still skinny but is getting wider and thicker in a way Noel may never) and he doesn't have Davis' court sense or smoothness on offense. And he's going to get pushed around. But in terms of shotblocking, he is going to have an impact.
   526. steagles Posted: July 15, 2014 at 12:54 PM (#4750670)
Noel blocked more shots per minute played than Davis, I believe. And Calipari said he has better blocked shot instincts.
the impressive thing about noel's defense isn't the shot blocking as much as his steal rate. at kentucky, davis had a 13.7 BLK% and a 2.5 STL%, while noel had a 13.2 BLK% and 3.9 STL%. the blocks are impressive, but the combination of blocks and steals is what really separates noel and makes him unique.
   527. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 15, 2014 at 01:44 PM (#4750721)
Sorry - I didn't mean cash - rather that taking Randolph was part of the cost of the McDermott deal. No, I can't prove that.

***
rumors!
Trevor Booker to UTA.
Joey Dorsey to HOU for 2/2m - guaranteed.
Jeff Adrien to HOU
   528. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: July 15, 2014 at 01:49 PM (#4750731)
Moses I may be mis reading it, but per Friedell he is saying the bulls got 2 second round picks from orlando when they sen randolph there
link
   529. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 15, 2014 at 01:52 PM (#4750736)
No, the Bulls had to give Orlando 2 2nd rounders to take Randolph's contract. Orlando is going to then waive Randolph.
   530. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 15, 2014 at 02:22 PM (#4750775)
Booker got 2/10? Wow.
   531. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 15, 2014 at 02:31 PM (#4750790)
Kris Humphries 3/13 to WAS, 3rd year is t-opt (per Woj) -- Wizards need to get to the cap (to sign Pierce with MLE)
   532. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 15, 2014 at 02:49 PM (#4750817)
Booker looks to me like a decent 3rd or 4th big, but I wonder how much PT they will give him unless they move Kanter and/or Evans.

FWIW, Gobert has been beasting in Vegas and I think he will actually be a rotation player this year.
   533. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: July 15, 2014 at 02:53 PM (#4750824)
FWIW, Gobert has been beasting in Vegas


Is this some sort of autocorrect mishap, or does following the NBA require people to lose command of the English language?

Also, get off my lrfc!
   534. madvillain Posted: July 15, 2014 at 02:57 PM (#4750832)
Gasol said he signed with the Bulls on instict after talking with Rose and Noah. Every Bulls fan trashing Garpax should be forced to read this.

   535. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:04 PM (#4750847)
Wizards need to get to the cap (to sign Pierce with MLE)

That's not how it works. If they fall under the cap, they can't use the MLE. I think they probably have other ways of staying above the cap (probably something to do with the Ariza S&T and maybe the Blair S&T). Or so I think...

Maybe Humphries will be a S&T with BKN (BKN getting a TPE).
   536. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:06 PM (#4750853)
Wade re-ups with Heat.

The Associated Press, citing an anonymous source, reported the deal is for two years and worth about $34 million, with a player option for the 2015-16 season.


$8mil, down the drain...
   537. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4750861)
The Boston Celtics are finalizing a sign-and-trade agreement with Washington to fit Humphries' deal into the salary cap, sources said. The Wizards can send Boston part of the trade exception earned with Houston in a recent sign-and-trade deal for Trevor Ariza.


Nailed it! (except the part that K-Hump was a Celtic last year and not a Net)
   538. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:25 PM (#4750881)
That's not how it works. If they fall under the cap, they can't use the MLE. I think they probably have other ways of staying above the cap (probably something to do with the Ariza S&T and maybe the Blair S&T). Or so I think...


Yeah -- that's what I meant (poorly communicated) -- they're under the cap right now and need to sign people to get up to it so they can use the MLE (or to put it another way, if they can get to the cap, the Pierce deal becomes the MLE and so they can carry essentially another $5M in salary). These S&T / trade exception things make my head spin though. I guess the Wiz have more signings coming.
   539. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:32 PM (#4750886)
Greek Freak link dump: Giannis is getting a shot at point guard duties this summer, and Kidd thinks he can offer meaningful minutes there during the season. Giannis has been turning the ball over way too much but as last night's video reel shows, he's making a lot of plays too.

Also this because he is the best.
   540. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:36 PM (#4750890)
they're under the cap right now and need to sign people to get up to it so they can use the MLE (or to put it another way, if they can get to the cap, the Pierce deal becomes the MLE and so they can carry essentially another $5M in salary). These S&T / trade exception things make my head spin though. I guess the Wiz have more signings coming.

No, I think you're still missing the point of the MLE. If you go under the cap at all, you no longer are eligible for the MLE. You cannot spend up to the cap to then use an exception to go over the cap; it's a soft cap but not that soft. So if they're under the cap now*, they can't use it. They've already done a S&T with Houston for a trade exemption** (the very exemption they're using to acquire K-Hump; if not for that trade exemption, they wouldn't be able to sign K-Hump because they're over the cap and already committed the full MLE to Pierce). If they didn't use their BAE (bi-annual exception) last year, they could offer K-Hump (or someone else now) 2yr, $4.2 mil without a S&T. The other moves the Wiz can make are to re-sign their own guys with Bird rights or veteran minimums. They also have the rest of the trade exemption from Ariza ($8.5mil less the amount K-Hump is getting this year) to get other guys above the minimum (I thought they were linked to Blair, perhaps that's how they'd get him). They cannot go above $81mil, as they're hard capped by using the MLE. Doesn't appear they're at risk of getting there though.

*They're not under the cap right now, due to cap holds for Seraphin, Singleton, Gooden, Harrington (I assume the Ariza and Booker holds are gone as they're on new teams, but I guess those deals have to be official; I'd assume Ariza is by now).
**Houston is under the cap, so they can take on Ariza's deal in full without trading anything back, which then is the mechanism that creates the trade exemption.
   541. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:44 PM (#4750901)
If the Jazz wanted to cooperate, they're under the cap so the Booker move could be a S&T, which would give the Wiz another $5mil or so TPE. If they want to pay the tax this year, they can get there this route. Like I said though, can't go above $81mil.

The only thing that would worry me about the K-Hump deal is year 3. It's a player option, but that's the year they probably want to keep their books clean for a run at Durant.
   542. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:47 PM (#4750908)
Dirk's deal is 3 years and 25 million. My mind is blown.
   543. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:48 PM (#4750910)
Why can't LeBron be more like Dirk?
   544. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:50 PM (#4750912)
Marc Stein ?@ESPNSteinLine 11m
Story going online now detailing how Rockets AND Lakers called w/max offers for Nowitzki, but he rebuffed all outside interest to stay w/DAL


Good for Dirk, and good for Dallas.
   545. steagles Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:52 PM (#4750915)
Booker looks to me like a decent 3rd or 4th big, but I wonder how much PT they will give him unless they move Kanter and/or Evans.
i'm not a huge fan of booker as a 3rd forward because he's not big enough to play C, but utah has favors and kanter and booker is a pretty decent option next to both of them at PF.

   546. steagles Posted: July 15, 2014 at 03:53 PM (#4750918)
FWIW, Gobert has been beasting in Vegas and I think he will actually be a rotation player this year.
has he learned how to shoot FTs since saturday?
   547. Norcan Posted: July 15, 2014 at 04:21 PM (#4750949)
Giannis being given a lot of ball handling duties pleases me. It's always nice to see roles meted out according to ability and not because one say has the height of a point guard.

He's reminding me of Lamar Odom. Maybe never a great scorer but versatility in spades in a 6'11 frame. High basketball IQ, rebounds, great at pushing the ball and finding teammates in transition. He ran two fast breaks beautifully last night. Those illustrated the divide that exists in his floor vision from Parker's. When Parker's pushed the ball and passed, they've been very generic passes, although one led to a layup for a teammate. Weird thing about Parker and his transition game, I think his ability to score going to coast to coast is the strongest aspect of his game right now. He had two great coast to coast layups against Cleveland. I was excited for him to get more opportunities to use this aspect of his game than he got Duke. However, coaches must have told him to look up and spot teammates because he's passed up opportunities to bullrush his way to the basket. I hope he finds the right balance.
   548. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 15, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4750981)
has he learned how to shoot FTs since saturday?


You don't need to when your FG% is over .900.

But seriously, in addition to all the blocks, he's done a great job positioning himself to scare off opponents from the basket and helping out on the P&R while also being able to quickly recover to stop his man from a basket down low. With his mobility and his improved strength, he *should* be able to score enough on P&Rs; and putbacks to be worth rotation minutes considering his defense. The FT shooting is obviously a concern, but he was just under 50% last year, and if he can get close to 60% the Jazz would come out ahead if teams want to intentionally foul the Stifle Tower.
   549. madvillain Posted: July 15, 2014 at 05:02 PM (#4750993)
Boozer official amnestied. Gimme dat amnesty!
   550. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 15, 2014 at 05:25 PM (#4751033)
Feels good, don't it?
   551. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 15, 2014 at 05:28 PM (#4751041)
Miller to Cleveland for 2/5.5
Wade resigns with Heat for 2/34
Spurs hire Ettore Messina as assistant coach
   552. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: July 15, 2014 at 05:28 PM (#4751042)
Mike Miller to CLE. 2 yrs 5.5 mil total. Player option 2nd year.
   553. madvillain Posted: July 15, 2014 at 05:34 PM (#4751046)
Feels good, don't it?


I'm just glad all the dumb JR won't amnesty him nuts on Realgm are quiet.

Mike Miller to CLE. 2 yrs 5.5 mil total. Player option 2nd year.


By the end of the deal he'll be the first wheel chair player, at least until his thumbs give out again.
   554. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: July 15, 2014 at 06:06 PM (#4751085)
Wasn't Miller on the verge of retiring a couple years ago because his body was one hard foul away from shattering into a thousand pieces?
   555. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 15, 2014 at 06:09 PM (#4751091)
WindhorstESPN Brian Windhorst
Last year Mike Miller feigned back injury when he heard Cavs might claim him off waivers. Today he signs with them despite larger offers.


Heh.

SherwoodStrauss Ethan Strauss
The Heat lost LeBron, are still paying Miller to help LeBron in Cleveland, owe Cleveland their 1st rounder


Double heh.

Seeing LeBron leave Miami has re-awakened some deep-seated and buried hate I have towards Riley.
   556. madvillain Posted: July 15, 2014 at 06:22 PM (#4751104)
Tony Snell is ####### balling out in summer league. Who is this guy? Seriously I never even knew half the things he's doing were even in his game, summer league competition or not. Also, McBuckets is a shooting guard that can actually shoot, only took a few years for the FO to realize with Thibs as coach you should look for offensive oriented players that you can coach up on D.
   557. rr Posted: July 15, 2014 at 08:10 PM (#4751196)
...but there is an undercurrent around the league that Harden and Howard don’t represent the most appealing duo of teammates for any star who has lived within ultraserious professionalism.

Howard was great last year, but the jokiness and free-agent dithering hurt his image. The viral videos of Harden’s defense damaged his reputation. It wouldn’t shock me if Bosh at least considered some of that in his decision.


From Lowe's Post-FA piece.

link

I had mentioned that the other day.
   558. bibigon Posted: July 15, 2014 at 08:21 PM (#4751209)
I dunno - the default assumption should probably always be that a player went back to their original team mostly because of the extra $30M. It's a plausible narrative, and it wouldn't shock me if Bosh considered it, but my guess is the dollars decided things. Bosh has two rings, he's not chasing some GOAT legacy here.

LeBron is the 2nd max guy to ever walk away from the money, right? (Howard being the first).
   559. RollingWave Posted: July 15, 2014 at 09:33 PM (#4751351)
While I agree that Parsons is way overpriced at 16* per, Ariza has (IMO) as likely a chance to be replacement level as he does to be above average, maybe less. In the last four years, he has one year (the most recent) where he was above average. Personally, I'd rather have the cap room.
Still, I think everyone can agree that this was a brutal, brutal offseason for Morey. He gave up Lin, Asik and Parsons and received ... Trevor Ariza in return. Not even Trevor Ariza + salary cap space, just Trevor Ariza.


They do have a little bit of cap space, but it's no where enough to make a legitimate play at anything, of course,they'll probably trade Ariza and let Jones / Dmo / Beverley all go next season to sign nobody again.

This has been a pretty big disaster, as others noted, it's a big problem to take a swing like this and miss when your a 54 win team, another fun stat, Howard and Harden missed 20 games combined last year, the Rockets were 15-5 in those 20 games, which was a Spursian record, and it wasn't a particularly weak schedule either. That says quite a bit of what Lin / Asik / Parsons actually meant for the Rockets, and I think a lot of their fans are about to get a rude awakening unless Howard/ Harden plays significantly healthier this year.

You would have thought a guy like Morey would be a bit more careful (not actually pulling the trigger on the Lin / Asik trade until Bosh verbally commits and have a better contingency plan than this.) but apparently not.

The Rockets despite being the 4th seed only made the playoff by 5 freaking game (good god Western conference.) if they take even a little bit of a step back they could be in enough trouble to get Morey fired.

The most awful thing is that they could have rolled Asik into Ariza and not move anyone else anyway, AND get a pick.

Why wouldn't you give Jordan Hill 9 million a year? He's a 19 PER/.140 WS guy.


Because he has a negative adjusted +/-

The Lakers are built like crap right now though, there are some fans of Lin who's opening champagne for him leaving Houston, but I really can't see it that way, he's going to a team with *2* ball hogging SG and Julis Randle, another black hole type on offense. Jordan Hill seem like the only guy with some plausible skill to work with him, meh, at least he worked on his shooting and post entry pass this past season, he'll need it.

Ironically, I would have the Lakers making the playoff with this group if they were in the east and Kobe's mostly healthy (or at least a decent shot at it.), but this Western conference is absurd right now, we might actually see the 8th seed in he West having a better record than the first seed in the East this year now that the Heat broke up.

   560. PJ Martinez Posted: July 15, 2014 at 09:51 PM (#4751397)
Any early thoughts on what the Jazz will/should do with Exum and Burke (in terms of minutes, how much they play together, what responsibilities they're given, and so on)?
   561. RollingWave Posted: July 15, 2014 at 10:09 PM (#4751434)
The probably run a 2 point guard lineup? Exum is definitely big enough to defend any 2, and Burke plays more like a floor general anyway. so you let Exum attack with the ball most of the time.

BTW , I like the Booker signing actually, he has been quietly solid for awhile now, no upside, but pretty high floor.
   562. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 15, 2014 at 10:30 PM (#4751475)
Any early thoughts on what the Jazz will/should do with Exum and Burke (in terms of minutes, how much they play together, what responsibilities they're given, and so on)?


My guess is that for this year Exum will come off the bench since he's so young and inexperienced, but will still get around 10MPG with Burke on the court. Jazz have gone out of their way to make it clear they still love Burke (and Burke supposedly told them pre-draft that he wanted them to get another PG and a rim protector if they could), so I think he's fine with the Exum pick. Exum's size makes things a lot easier to play them together, though both he and Burke need to improve playing off ball. Quinn Snyder is emphasizing pace, making extra passes, and running more P&Rs;, so I think almost always having two creators (Burke, Exum, Hayward, and though only really for P&Rs;, Rodney Hood) on the floor will please him.

For longterm, assuming Alec Burks is re-signed, I see Burks' best role as being the primary scorer off the bench and would love to see Burke and Exum start. The Jazz (especially by their standards) have been very active promoting Exum and letting fans see him on and off the court, so I think they see him as the next face of the franchise. He's pretty raw from what I've seen and will need to improve his shot, strength, and stamina, but it's easy to see star potential. His first step is insanely quick, he has a nasty crossover, and he's shown excellent court vision and a willingness to pass.
   563. steagles Posted: July 15, 2014 at 10:53 PM (#4751511)
i think i'm a pretty big basketball fan.
i think i'm a pretty big sixers fan.

but the sixers summer league games are unwatchable without nerlens noel. i don't care about adonis thomas or brandon davies. if casper ware has a better career than mateen cleaves, i'll eat my damn hat.
   564. madvillain Posted: July 15, 2014 at 10:55 PM (#4751515)
Trey Burke given a full NBA offseason of training should be a much, much improved player. The jump he made from year 1 to year 2 at Michigan was nothing less than breathtaking. It's a cliche, but rookie PG is a hard, hard task, especially on a bad team. Burke wasn't very efficient last year, I'd expect him to improve leaps and bounds both from range and in close.

Jazz have gone out of their way to make it clear they still love Burke (and Burke supposedly told them pre-draft that he wanted them to get another PG and a rim protector if they could


I think they really like Burke, and I don't blame them -- his floor, imo, is at least solid starter, no way he's not given how productive he was in college against very good competition and his noted work ethic (working on his game effectively, not just hard).

i think i'm a pretty big basketball fan.
i think i'm a pretty big sixers fan.

but the sixers summer league games are unwatchable without nerlens noel. i don't care about adonis thomas or brandon davies. if casper ware has a better career than mateen cleaves, i'll eat my damn hat.


Wait what? This is your SuperBowl/WorldCup/Olympics -- Sixers summer league man.
   565. madvillain Posted: July 15, 2014 at 11:02 PM (#4751528)
   566. RollingWave Posted: July 15, 2014 at 11:31 PM (#4751584)
I am intrigued by McDermott, he needs specific teammates to work but the Bulls might be the best team to maximize his ability (then again, Jimmer's 8 games in Chicago don't expire confidence in that .)

I remain high on Glen Rice Jr. even though he adjusted much slower to the NBA than I imagined, but he's killing it in the summer league again this year. there are a lot of guys getting buckets, but he's pretty much the only one that literally looks unguardable.
   567. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 15, 2014 at 11:48 PM (#4751617)
Tony Snell is ####### balling out in summer league. Who is this guy? Seriously I never even knew half the things he's doing were even in his game, summer league competition or not.

Why did Snell vanish from the Bulls rotation with 20 games left in the season? Even though the Bulls had absolutely no depth, Snell played fewer playoff minutes than John Salmons or Bismack Biyombo. Better a 7-man team than an 8-man team, if the 8th man is Tony Snell?
   568. madvillain Posted: July 16, 2014 at 01:22 AM (#4751641)
I am intrigued by McDermott, he needs specific teammates to work but the Bulls might be the best team to maximize his ability (then again, Jimmer's 8 games in Chicago don't expire confidence in that .)


Honestly, and I hate to do it, but McDermott reminds me of Stauskus in a lot of ways. Both have the length and range to bomb away at the slighest daylight (prime Ray Allen or current Steph Curry type range) and then boom when you play the pick and roll and go over they can make you pay as well. Stauskas is by far the more vertical player but Doug is longer and craftier, from what I've seen. Both however have ideal size for their positions, if not lateral quickness.

I've argued for awhile that in today's NBA, perimeter defense isn't that important if that player is a great scorer. I see that with Doug. With Noah, Pau and Gibson manning the paint, most blowbys are going to be challenged.


Why did Snell vanish from the Bulls rotation with 20 games left in the season? Even though the Bulls had absolutely no depth, Snell played fewer playoff minutes than John Salmons or Bismack Biyombo. Better a 7-man team than an 8-man team, if the 8th man is Tony Snell?


Dunno, but he was strictly a catch and shoot guy for the most part as a rookie that wouldn't kill you elsewhere, aka, not much. Stats didn't like him much either, new or old. In summer league, he seems bouncier and more of a (don't laugh) Jamal Crawford like scorer. It's just summer league but some of has to be the muscle he's put on, he isn't afraid to take it inside as much. We'll see if that translates to the League.
   569. Squash Posted: July 16, 2014 at 01:41 AM (#4751650)
ESPN is giving Melo a lot of props for taking a whopping $5 million less than the max over 5 years.
   570. rr Posted: July 16, 2014 at 02:14 AM (#4751658)
I dunno - the default assumption should probably always be that a player went back to their original team mostly because of the extra $30M. It's a plausible narrative, and it wouldn't shock me if Bosh considered it, but my guess is the dollars decided things.


Sure. I simply suggested a few days ago, as Lowe did here, that it might have entered Bosh's mind. When Howard was with the Lakers, it was worth noting that Nash and Gasol didn't like him, apparently. Not getting along with Bryant and D'Antoni is common and understandable, but Nash and Gasol--not so much. Harden may be a great guy, but he was dogging it on D in playoff games, which is a pretty big deal.

   571. rr Posted: July 16, 2014 at 02:46 AM (#4751661)
Dork Elvis on ParsonsGate:

link

“The Mavericks are a smart organization,” Morey said on SportsTalk 790 AM in Houston. “They obviously wanted to get him. That structure of that [contract] is literally one of the most untradeable structures that I’ve ever seen. That’s why it came down to a bet of Harden, Howard and Parsons being the final piece, because we would have had no ability to do anything after that. And Harden, Howard, Parsons could have been good enough. I think Parsons is a tremendous player and is going to keep getting better.

“The question is, is it better with that core or is it better with Ariza plus the hundreds of moves that might be able to upgrade us in the other scenario. And there’s really no moving -- that core was going to be the core that we had to have, because if we ever wanted to move off and go after the other stars, if we ever wanted to go after a different core, it wasn’t going to be possible."


Donnie Nelson:

"First of all, we're not looking to trade Chandler Parsons,...I think there's no such thing as an untradeable contract"


   572. RollingWave Posted: July 16, 2014 at 02:50 AM (#4751662)
Rubio and Fegan is asking for a 5 year max, I will go on a limb and say that he will get it barring injury, the max part anyway, maybe not the 5 year part.

   573. rr Posted: July 16, 2014 at 03:19 AM (#4751663)
link

All NBA teams that have won a championship will wear a small gold tab on their back jersey collars starting with the 2014-15 season, according to images obtained from an adidas retail catalog that began circulating on the Internet on Tuesday afternoon.

The gold championship tab would be the first league-wide championship badge ever used by one of the "Big Four" North American professional sports leagues, and it is similar to the star system used by soccer teams to denote World Cup titles.

But while soccer teams add an additional star for each championship, the NBA plans to use a single tab for all teams that have won a title, so a one-time champion, like the Portland Trail Blazers, will wear the same badge as a team that has won many, like the Boston Celtics.
   574. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 16, 2014 at 08:00 AM (#4751697)
All NBA teams that have won a championship will wear a small gold tab


Dumb but harmless.
   575. PJ Martinez Posted: July 16, 2014 at 08:19 AM (#4751707)
   576. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 16, 2014 at 09:28 AM (#4751738)
If they were, how much does it normally cost to buy a 2nd round pick these days?

Depends on where you are in the round. Top of the 2nd is arguably worth more than the bottom of the first - and I'm not sure that teams are still willing to sell picks from the bottom of the first (given the annual cap on including cash in deals). Clarkson at 46 was reportedly sold for a bit under two million - that's more than I'd've expected. On the other hand, the Wolves sold #44 for 1.1M to Brooklyn. They also bought #59 for 500K and #60 for 300K.

Other picks sold this year: 55 (to OKC), 57 (to NYK).
   577. Spivey Posted: July 16, 2014 at 09:29 AM (#4751739)
I guess Stephenson has his baggage, but I like him a lot more at that price than Ariza at a similar price. Especially for Houston.
   578. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 16, 2014 at 09:36 AM (#4751742)
It would be a cool idea if only the current NBA champion got to wear the gold tab.
   579. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: July 16, 2014 at 09:47 AM (#4751749)
I can't believe Stephenson went for that little. Almost as much as I can't believe a Simmons-esque stupid-tournament-in-the-middle-of-the-season plan is actually on the table.
   580. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 16, 2014 at 10:09 AM (#4751763)
It would be a cool idea if only the current NBA champion got to wear the gold tab.

Or if guys who played on last year's champion wore the tab.
   581. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 16, 2014 at 10:52 AM (#4751815)
Or if guys who played on last year's champion wore the tab.


No. A championship is - or IMO should be - a team centric reward. So it should be worn by teams, not individuals.
   582. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 16, 2014 at 11:07 AM (#4751839)
this Western conference is absurd right now, we might actually see the 8th seed in he West having a better record than the first seed in the East this year now that the Heat broke up.

I doubt it. The East still gets to play the East a lot more than the West. Last year IND won more than West seeds 4 and down, and Miami had the same number of wins as 4.
   583. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 16, 2014 at 11:15 AM (#4751851)
(then again, Jimmer's 8 games in Chicago don't expire confidence in that .)

I see no reason why Jimmer's limited time, so late in the season, would have any bearing or predictive value on how McBuckets will be on the Bulls.

Why did Snell vanish from the Bulls rotation with 20 games left in the season? Even though the Bulls had absolutely no depth, Snell played fewer playoff minutes than John Salmons or Bismack Biyombo. Better a 7-man team than an 8-man team, if the 8th man is Tony Snell?

He was very bad. Tentative on offense, tentative on defense. Constant mistakes. Thibs didn't trust him at all. I still don't expect a ton from him, but he just looks so different this summer. He is likely the 10th guy in the rotation, and he could do fine in that role. You don't need an 8th guy if you have 3 guys playing 45 minutes each game.

Rubio and Fegan is asking for a 5 year max, I will go on a limb and say that he will get it barring injury, the max part anyway, maybe not the 5 year part.

We know what happened the last time the Wolves balked at the 5 year part - and that was a much, much better bet. But they were saving it for Rubio, so to not use it on him...
   584. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 16, 2014 at 11:22 AM (#4751862)
I can't believe Stephenson went for that little.

He had off-court baggage that pushed him to the 2nd round. He has this baggage limiting his market. Quite frankly, this is a f'in steal by the Horcats. And a much, much better deal than the one they signed Hayward. I can't speak to locker room stuff, but if he really was a problem in Indiana hopefully he's either learned or just fits better here. Horcats aren't great, but they're going back to the playoffs again this year easily.

I like thinking of the league in tiers, but I really don't know how to separate out the East right now. On paper, Cleveland is the best team (I am still withholding judgement on the Bulls this time until Rose is healthy *and* good). Then I have a really hard time saying with any level of confidence who's better among Chicago, Indiana, Washington, Miami, Toronto, Brooklyn and Charlotte. You can make a pretty strong argument both for and against every one of those teams. I think Atlanta is probably clearly below all of them, but still safe for the playoffs.
   585. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 16, 2014 at 11:35 AM (#4751879)
Wait, Atlanta can't be safe for the playoffs if they're clearly below 8 other teams.
   586. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: July 16, 2014 at 11:39 AM (#4751885)
Whoops, misspoke. I didn't mean safe, I meant possible for playoffs. Very possible one of those other 7 "ahead" of them with questions has an injury or something that knocks them down.

I guess SVG can work some magic with Detroit, but I don't see any of the other East teams jumping into the playoffs. It will be 8 of those 9, IMO.
   587. bibigon Posted: July 16, 2014 at 12:34 PM (#4751956)
If I can't find a prop bet on Miami to win more games than Cleveland somewhere, I'm going to be very irate.
   588. andrewberg Posted: July 16, 2014 at 12:35 PM (#4751958)
But while soccer teams add an additional star for each championship, the NBA plans to use a single tab for all teams that have won a title, so a one-time champion, like the Portland Trail Blazers, will wear the same badge as a team that has won many, like the Boston Celtics.


At leas the Sonics will get one. Actually, do you think they will let OKC have the badge? They better not.

I can't believe a Simmons-esque stupid-tournament-in-the-middle-of-the-season plan is actually on the table


I would like it if the tournament traded off with regular season games. If every team entered a tournament and they shaved the regular season down to 75 games, that would make the season much more enjoyable, in my opinion.

Rubio and Fegan is asking for a 5 year max, I will go on a limb and say that he will get it barring injury, the max part anyway, maybe not the 5 year part.


At least that makes the timing part easy for the Wolfs. No reason to jump at that until he starts finishing better and it's not like the price is going to go up if he breaks through.

this is a f'in steal by the Horcats.


Seconded. Really makes me question the Hayward/Parsons market.
   589. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 16, 2014 at 12:41 PM (#4751965)
this is a f'in steal by the Horcats.


Seconded. Really makes me question the Hayward/Parsons market.


Lance has a lot of baggage. It's easy to sit here and say that you should throw a bunch of money at a guy because he can ball and ignore the fact that he's a psychopath ######### with a history of domestic violence, but for a team (which, after all, is in the entertainment business and cares about PR in addition to just winning games), that matters. Not necessarily for on-court chemistry, but for off-court stuff (potentially including teammates' happiness / people's willingness to sign there).
   590. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 16, 2014 at 01:03 PM (#4751985)
At leas the Sonics will get one. Actually, do you think they will let OKC have the badge? They better not.


If you move but keep the dame name and maintain continuity do you get one from the previous cities team?

How about if you move and change name/identity?

For me it seems it should be tied to the franchise, which means the name, but not the city. if you shed your name you shed your past and shouldn't get to keep the fabulous gold tab of destiny.
   591. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: July 16, 2014 at 01:33 PM (#4752039)
Lance has a lot of baggage.


Ain't that the truth. The scuttlebutt I've heard from folks in the League is that he's completely ####### insane.
   592. andrewberg Posted: July 16, 2014 at 01:35 PM (#4752040)
Ain't that the truth. The scuttlebutt I've heard from folks in the League is that he's completely ####### insane.


FWIW, the report is that he took a shorter deal to go to Charlotte, so they at least minimized their exposure to crazy if he goes south.
   593. Booey Posted: July 16, 2014 at 01:54 PM (#4752062)
If you move but keep the same name and maintain continuity do you get one from the previous cities team?


Which teams would this actually apply to (other than ones like the Lakers that also won in their new city, making it moot)? The Hawks? Anyone else?

The Thunder and Kings shouldn't get a badge for winning in other cities and with a different franchise name, right?

Going off memory so correct me if I'm wrong -

Definite yes (14):
Lakers, Bulls, Celtics, Spurs, Mavs, Heat, Pistons, Rockets, Sixers, Blazers, Warriors, Bucks, Knicks, Wizards

Definite no (13):
Jazz, Hornets, Pelicans, Nuggets, Wolves, Pacers, Nets, Magic, Suns, Cavs, Raptors, Grizz, Clips

Probably (won in different city but same team name)(1):
Hawks

Probably not (won in different city and with different name)(2):
Thunder, Kings



Edit: The Rochester Royals did win a title, right?
   594. madvillain Posted: July 16, 2014 at 01:56 PM (#4752065)
FWIW, the report is that he took a shorter deal to go to Charlotte, so they at least minimized their exposure to crazy if he goes south.


It's a high risk, high reward move, and as you mentioned, shorter deal means they can just waive him if he gets out of hand. On a longer deal, on a team like Chicago or Indy or even the Knicks, the risk is a lot greater that he blows up your entire team.

How is he gonna blow up Charlotte? They already aren't very good and as mentioned, if he becomes a problem the deal is short enough you just pay him to go away.
   595. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 16, 2014 at 02:02 PM (#4752075)
Tolliver gets 2/6m from PHO.
   596. The District Attorney Posted: July 16, 2014 at 02:03 PM (#4752077)
Deadspin:
No, ABA titles don't count, so the Nets don't get a gold mark. Some pre-relocation titles count. For example, the Hawks get a gold mark for their title in St. Louis, but the Thunder don't get one for the Sonics' championship, because that would cause rioting.
Haven't seen anything definitive about the Kings.
   597. andrewberg Posted: July 16, 2014 at 02:04 PM (#4752078)
Tolliver gets 2/6m from PHO.


One of my favorite role players in the league. You don't want to rely on him too much for any one thing, but he really helps plug a bunch of different holes at the back end of a roster.
   598. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 16, 2014 at 02:23 PM (#4752102)
One of my favorite role players in the league. You don't want to rely on him too much for any one thing, but he really helps plug a bunch of different holes at the back end of a roster.
So far, this has been a nice offseason for the Suns but the biggest decision - Bledsoe - has yet to be made.
   599. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: July 16, 2014 at 03:30 PM (#4752165)
As it stands, I think my Hawks prediction will be approximately (Millsap 3PTA + Horford 3PTA)/7 = # of wins

If Ferry can't make a major deal, I hope they play five-out relentlessly. And defend better.
   600. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: July 16, 2014 at 03:58 PM (#4752190)
There was some chatter about Patric Young after the draft on this thread. Rumors are floating out there that he and the Pelicans have agreed to a two-year contract (he was playing on their summer league team).

The Pels have also signed Russ Smith to a two-year deal.
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