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Monday, June 02, 2014

OT: Monthly NBA Thread- June 2014

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: Vladimir Putin’s draft strategy, Stephen Drew’s breakfast, and whether Kevin has taken a material step toward harming Russell Westbrook.

andrewberg Posted: June 02, 2014 at 07:57 PM | 2043 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba, off-topic

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   1. tshipman Posted: June 03, 2014 at 09:56 AM (#4717912)
Well done with the submission, berg.

Anyone read any well done previews of the finals? I imagine I should favor Miami in 6 or so. If Parker really is hurt, MIA should be able to steal one of the first two.
   2. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: June 03, 2014 at 10:05 AM (#4717918)
There's a headline on SI.com that reads, "Sterling accused of racist, sexist remarks in suit." I guess it's being filed by a woman who claims to be Sterling's ex-mistress, but honestly, that's become just about the most generic, "dog-bites-man" headline imaginable. Might as well go with "Person killed in latest 'Game of Thrones' episode" or "City commission considers zoning request."
   3. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 03, 2014 at 10:13 AM (#4717925)
April's thread (there wasn't one in May).

It was weird how that thread was just closed. I was typing up a post, and I couldn't submit it. That post is lost forever though.
   4. Publius Publicola Posted: June 03, 2014 at 10:23 AM (#4717929)
That post is lost forever though.


What a pity.

You can't remember what you wrote?

Anyone read any well done previews of the finals?


The best, IMO, is Legler. He almost always hits the nail on the head.

   5. jmurph Posted: June 03, 2014 at 10:32 AM (#4717932)
I'm going with San Antonio in 6, but I'll be cheering for Miami.
   6. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: June 03, 2014 at 10:54 AM (#4717947)
There's a headline on SI.com that reads, "Sterling accused of racist, sexist remarks in suit." I guess it's being filed by a woman who claims to be Sterling's ex-mistress, but honestly, that's become just about the most generic, "dog-bites-man" headline imaginable. Might as well go with "Person killed in latest 'Game of Thrones' episode" or "City commission considers zoning request."

Everyone wants a bit of the filthy lucre. I believe Shakespeare came up with a pretty good turn of phrase for situations like these.

Ric Bucher says Love wants to go the Warriors but I still don't see how it's remotely possible. For the Warriors to make that happen they would have to tear down the team that makes them such an attractive proposition for Love. It's gotta be Houston or Boston or he just stays put.
   7. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:07 AM (#4717955)
You're forgetting Chicago.
   8. jmurph Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:09 AM (#4717958)
For the Warriors to make that happen they would have to tear down the team that makes them such an attractive proposition for Love.


Would something like Lee/Thompson/Green for Love/Barea work for both sides (it works financially)? I know the Wolves wouldn't be clamoring to take on Lee's contract, but he's still useful, and it would potentially be worth it if they value Thompson highly.

EDIT: I guess Martin would really be the guy the Wolves would want to include, rather than Barea.
2nd EDIT: Man, the Wolves have a lot of mediocrity locked up for 2 or more years.
   9. tshipman Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:11 AM (#4717960)
For the Warriors to make that happen they would have to tear down the team that makes them such an attractive proposition for Love. It's gotta be Houston or Boston or he just stays put.


?? You can trade Barnes + Lee (plus a pick, I'd imagine) for Love. Now, I doubt the T-Wolves would take that deal, but it's possible to make a deal.

I actually don't see the Wolves/Warriors as good partners because the Warriors don't have many attractive assets. What can the Warriors offer that would be attractive to the Wolves?
   10. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:15 AM (#4717963)
I don't think the Warriors want to lose Thompson which makes any trade a no go. The only hope for the Warriors is that they can find a third team to take Lee and that Love makes things miserable for Minnesota so they feel they have to dump him for whatever they can get. So, like I said, not remotely possible.
   11. jmurph Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:18 AM (#4717964)
The Warriors should be willing to move Thompson for Love all day every day.

   12. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:19 AM (#4717966)
What does Boston offer? This year's #6 pick + Sullinger + Bass + future picks?
   13. andrewberg Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:24 AM (#4717971)
The Warriors should be willing to move Thompson for Love all day every day.


They are a good team with Thompson, but whatever it takes to reshape the roster around Curry and Love seems like it would be worth it. It's much easier to find guys to fill in around them than to acquire stars of that caliber.
   14. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:24 AM (#4717972)
Everyone wants a bit of the filthy lucre. I believe Shakespeare came up with a pretty good turn of phrase for situations like these.


Ah yes, that immortal line from Hamlet. \"#### Donald Sterling."
   15. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:25 AM (#4717974)
It wouldn't just be Thompson, though. It would need to be Thompson/Green/Lee to a 3rd party for something the Wolves want. Thompson has quietly became one of the best 2-way guards in the league which is pretty important because of Curry's lack of defense and Green is another of the team's best defenders. That's assuming the Wolves have any interest in extending Thompson or Green which isn't an automatic. They may feel they're better off just playing next year with Love and hope their advanced stats which indicate they are good enough to be a playoff team convinces him to stay (not to mention they'll be able to offer him more than anyone else). The only thing the Wolves would really want on the Warriors is Curry and, well, no. The teams just aren't a good fit to make a trade. It just make he happy a guy like Love wants to go to Oakland. These are strange days!
   16. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:26 AM (#4717976)
I could enjoy either a SA or MIA win. Rooting for SA though, who is also my pick in the series.
   17. andrewberg Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:26 AM (#4717977)

What does Boston offer? This year's #6 pick + Sullinger + Bass + future picks?


They got two unprotected future #1s from the Nets in the Pierce/Garnett deal. It's hard to tell what Brooklyn will do with their roster, but if they age in a linear way, those could be pretty valuable.
   18. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:28 AM (#4717982)
What does Boston offer? This year's #6 pick + Sullinger + Bass + future picks?

Something like that. Like I said on the last thread, I see no reason why Boston would appeal to Love *if* his goal is to make the playoffs/win anytime soon (that's the standard motive assigned to him, but maybe he just really wants to get out of Minnesota). I think it's going to be hard for Houston to come up with a great offer that works. I think the Warriors aren't a great match with trade pieces. Which is why I think it comes back to Chicago, but of course they really struggle closing on deals like this. So perhaps there's another team out there that can blow these potential teams out of the water, cause I really don't see that great of a deal from any of those 4.

Of course, the most likely scenario is he isn't traded this offseason.
   19. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:32 AM (#4717988)
Like I said on the last thread, I see no reason why Boston would appeal to Love *if* his goal is to make the playoffs/win anytime soon (that's the standard motive assigned to him, but maybe he just really wants to get out of Minnesota)


They're in the East. Love probably makes them an #8 seed already. I mean, look at Charlotte.
   20. andrewberg Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:02 PM (#4718015)
Love probably makes them an #8 seed already. I mean, look at Charlotte.


Ok you're right. Five seed.

Honestly, if their lineup consisted only of Rondo, Bradley, Green, Love, and Humphries, that's definitely one of the eight best starting lineups in the east right now.
   21. Howling John Shade Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:12 PM (#4718023)


They are a good team with Thompson, but whatever it takes to reshape the roster around Curry and Love seems like it would be worth it. It's much easier to find guys to fill in around them than to acquire stars of that caliber.
That, and like Shooty mentioned, they're going to have to sign Thompson to an extension soon. He's going to want a lot of money, and I'm not sure they should give it to him. Of course that might make him a little less attractive to Minnesota as well. Lee+Thompson+Barnes I would do in a second as a Warriors fan. Lee+Thompson+Green would make me sad, but I would probably do it as well.
   22. Astroenteritis Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:14 PM (#4718025)
As much as I would like to see Love in Houston, I think the Rockets would have a hard time putting together a package both sides could live with.

As for the finals, my head says Spurs (assuming a healthy Parker), but my gut says Miami in seven. Fortunately I'm not a betting man, so I don't have to resolve the conflict.
For the record, though, Miami in seven.
   23. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:21 PM (#4718028)
What does Boston offer? This year's #6 pick + Sullinger + Bass + future picks?
They got two unprotected future #1s from the Nets in the Pierce/Garnett deal. It's hard to tell what Brooklyn will do with their roster, but if they age in a linear way, those could be pretty valuable.
Given Minnesota's lack of draft success, you'd think they'd try something else besides just stockpiling draft picks.
   24. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:23 PM (#4718031)
LOL for the day...David Lee actually got a vote for the all defensive team.

Given Minnesota's lack of draft success, you'd think they'd try something else besides just stockpiling draft picks.

Well, they drafter Love! The great humor in all of this is that Curry and Love should already be teammates.
   25. Spivey Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:27 PM (#4718034)
Spurs in 7. I think the Spurs can win the series without Parker being 100% too.
   26. theboyqueen Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:30 PM (#4718037)
If I were the Warriors the only guys I wouldn't consider including in a Love trade are Curry, Iguodala, and Green.
   27. theboyqueen Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:34 PM (#4718040)
You can trade Barnes + Lee (plus a pick, I'd imagine) for Love. Now, I doubt the T-Wolves would take that deal, but it's possible to make a deal.


Is there really a much better deal out there for them?
   28. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:36 PM (#4718042)
Is there really a much better deal out there for them?

Maybe not, but they don't have to trade him.
   29. steagles Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:45 PM (#4718049)
Is there really a much better deal out there for them?
the sixers could offer nerlens noel.

noel for love
MCW + #10 for kyrie irving
draft wiggins at 3
sign melo/pau gasol as free agents


irving / wiggins / melo / love / gasol

there should be a way to make that work financially, since wiggins and irving are on their rookie contracts, love is price fixed and gasol is on the back end of his career.
   30. Howling John Shade Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:55 PM (#4718058)
Is there really a much better deal out there for them?
There has to be. That deal makes them significantly worse next year, and unless they are huge believers in Harrison Barnes putting it all together, it doesn't give them much for the future.
   31. jmurph Posted: June 03, 2014 at 12:58 PM (#4718061)
There has to be. That deal makes them significantly worse next year, and unless they are huge believers in Harrison Barnes putting it all together, it doesn't give them much for the future.


Agree. GSW only works if you can get Thompson, otherwise just getting expiring contracts and draft picks from someone else is more appealing.
   32. Manny Coon Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:02 PM (#4718064)
Thompson has quietly became one of the best 2-way guards in the league


No he hasn't. His defense isn't anything too great, he likes to crowd his man and look active, but crafty players can slip by him pretty easily. His team defense isn't all that good. He's not nearly at Igoudala's level as a defender, which is part of why their defense fell apart when Igoudala was hurt. Igoudala and Bogut are the guys that make their defense go, Green is pretty good too. Offensively he's a good three point shooter, but his shot selection is poor, he misses a lot of low efficiency two point shots and doesn't get to the line. His raw stats look better than they are because a combination of big minutes, shot attempts and pace. He's a good player, but when he's due for a contract he's likely to make a lot more money than he is actually worth. They shouldn't hesitate to trade him if they can get Love and it's needed to make the deal happen.
   33. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:03 PM (#4718066)
Lowe's Finals preview is up, and that's probably as good as you're going to find.
   34. andrewberg Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4718068)
Well, they drafter Love! The great humor in all of this is that Curry and Love should already be teammates.


Technically they drafted OJ Mayo and traded him for Love. I'm going to fall back on having a new front office as an excuse. Gorgui Dieng!
   35. Manny Coon Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:13 PM (#4718075)
Rubio/Curry could have been a pretty fun backcourt, Rubio could take the tougher guard assignment and help Curry get all sorts of open looks. Jonny Flynn made an Australian league all-star team a while back.
   36. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:15 PM (#4718076)
The is absolutely no way the Spurs win without a healthy Parker (save a Heat injury). My head says Spurs, my gut says Heat. If Parker is healthy, Spurs in 7; if he's not, Heat in 6.
   37. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:23 PM (#4718087)
Re: andrewberg's Westbrook trade proposal in the last thread, do people here consider Lin to be better than Rubio? Because I thought the trade looked weak for the Thunder but would consider it if Lin is sent to OKC with Rubio going to Houston.
   38. Manny Coon Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:27 PM (#4718093)
do people here consider Lin to be better than Rubio?


Rubio is a much better defender and much better playmaker. Lin is a better scorer. Neither is a very good outside shooter. Both have holes in their games, so how they are used and who they are used with is key to their success. In a vacuum Rubio is probably better because of his defense.
   39. andrewberg Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:30 PM (#4718100)
Rubio is a much better defender and much better playmaker. Lin is a better scorer. Neither is a very good outside shooter. Both have holes in their games, so how they are used and who they are used with is key to their success. In a vacuum Rubio is probably better because of his defense.


I would add that I think Rubio would be a better PG for a team with Parsons, Durant, and Ibaka making jumpers around him. He can make 3's at an average-ish rate, but his real weakness is finishing at the rim. Even without that threat, he manages to find open guys with passes that nobody else in the NBA can see or make, so having those scorers around him would be good for all involved. Also, I agree with Manny that he is a near elite defender. He has such long arms and quick hands that he gets a ton of steals without "gambling" in the sense that guys get past him easily. He can also guard 2's quite well, though Adelman rarely had him do it- one of many instances of non-creativity that made me think Adelman had basically checked out.
   40. rr Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:33 PM (#4718103)
These are strange days!


Not really, unless you think it is "strange" that the Warriors are good. The Bay Area is probably going to be attractive to a guy who was born in SoCal and grew up in the Pacific Northwest. Guys have never wanted to go to the Warriors because they mostly have sucked in the FA era, not because their arena is in Oakland (although they are apparently headed for SF). Rule #1: guys who can choose will almost always want to play on good teams, with prime-age elite talent in place. So with Curry there, plus Iguodala, Bogut, and Thompson; GS is a very natural place for Love to want to go.

Also, Bucher is now working out of the Bay Area, so his sources are probably not going to tell him that Love wants to go to Houston, Boston, or Chicago. But, I actually tend to believe it. Based on what I know about Love, and his background, I would think that GS would be his first choice, the way the chessboard looks now.
   41. Howling John Shade Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:38 PM (#4718106)
Also, Bucher is now working out of the Bay Area
Hopefully we can include him as a throw-in in any Love trade. He had the sideline reporter gig on Warriors broadcasts this year and I can't think of a single nice thing to say about him.
   42. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:39 PM (#4718108)
Not really, unless you think it is "strange" that the Warriors are good.

Why would I not think this is strange? I've been a Warriors fan for 30 years.
   43. Publius Publicola Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:47 PM (#4718115)

No he hasn't. His defense isn't anything too great, he likes to crowd his man and look active, but crafty players can slip by him pretty easily. His team defense isn't all that good. He's not nearly at Igoudala's level as a defender, which is part of why their defense fell apart when Igoudala was hurt. Igoudala and Bogut are the guys that make their defense go, Green is pretty good too. Offensively he's a good three point shooter, but his shot selection is poor, he misses a lot of low efficiency two point shots and doesn't get to the line. His raw stats look better than they are because a combination of big minutes, shot attempts and pace. He's a good player, but when he's due for a contract he's likely to make a lot more money than he is actually worth. They shouldn't hesitate to trade him if they can get Love and it's needed to make the deal happen.


Word.
   44. AROM Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:58 PM (#4718130)
What would a Love to Houston trade look like?

I assume they aren't trading Harden or Howard. Targeting Parsons, Jones, Asik or some combination doesn't seem like enough. Do they have a stash of draft picks?

I hate to say it, but Boston could put together a much better package with all the draft picks they have. Problem is Love might not be eager to sign an extension if they trade too many assets. It would not surprise me if they pull off a deal with Minnesota where the Wolves get the short end of the stick, like getting some mediocre players instead of this year's #6 pick. I would expect Minnesota to just roll over and let Ainge take Love, as they did with Garnett years ago.

But if that's the best offer they get, they would be much better off just playing out 2014-15 with Love and making one final playoff push.

Edit: I do realize they got exactly the #6 pick in the year after the Garnett trade, but that draft wasn't as good as this one looks.
   45. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:02 PM (#4718136)
What would a Love to Houston trade look like?


Jeremy Lin could be involved.

There have also been rumors the Rockets could move someone to the Kings for the #8 pick since they want to trade out for a veteran, then flip that pick for Love.
   46. Publius Publicola Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:02 PM (#4718138)
Also, Bucher is now working out of the Bay Area, so his sources are probably not going to tell him that Love wants to go to Houston, Boston, or Chicago. But, I actually tend to believe it.


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

Søren Kierkegaard
   47. smileyy Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:04 PM (#4718144)
Lowe describing Boris Diaw as a "chubby futon" makes the article worthwhile all by itself.
   48. rr Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:04 PM (#4718145)
Why would I not think this is strange? I've been a Warriors fan for 30 years.


Any team can be at least decent with a little smarts and a little luck, and the Warriors have had some of both the last few years. Taking the next step will be the hard part; Love will probably be the best shot, and the FO needs to be right about Steve Kerr. But as we have seen with the Giants, Bay Area teams can be revenue monsters and draws with good/decent management. GS has always had a good location and a good fanbase; they just needed basketball players. Now they have some.
   49. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:14 PM (#4718160)
rr, you just don't understand Warriors fandom...
   50. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:15 PM (#4718164)
With only like $30 million committed next summer, Boston would be in position to attract a second max player to go with Love in 13 months. Or Ainge could assemble Timberschleps East, built around Love and a point guard who can't shoot is totally better than Russell Westbrook.
   51. Spivey Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:29 PM (#4718182)
The is absolutely no way the Spurs win without a healthy Parker (save a Heat injury). My head says Spurs, my gut says Heat. If Parker is healthy, Spurs in 7; if he's not, Heat in 6.

Health is relative. I don't think they can win without him playing in the series, but if he were to miss a game or two, or play clearly hobbled a few games but be effective in others I think they can win still.
   52. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:30 PM (#4718184)
agreed
   53. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:32 PM (#4718186)
do people here consider Lin to be better than Rubio?


I'd rather have Rubio. Two years younger, better passer and defender, and his shooting can (hopefully) improve.

   54. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:32 PM (#4718187)
Fwiw (not much), now some noise that Love is definitely coming to Boston and they're now working on Melo.
   55. jmurph Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:33 PM (#4718188)
Boston would be in position to attract a second max player to go with Love in 13 months.


The Celtics don't exactly have a sterling history of attracting top free agents. Who are we talking about here?
   56. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:36 PM (#4718194)
Dragic and Aldridge are the headliners, I think.
   57. Publius Publicola Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:39 PM (#4718199)
Who are we talking about here?


They got Allen and Garnett (who, while he wasn't a free agent, was spoiling to be traded, wihch is sort of the same thing).

I'd rather have Rubio. Two years younger, better passer and defender, and his shooting can (hopefully) improve.


There's no question I'd rather have Rubio too. He has creator potential that Lin fan only dream about.

His shooting statistics are really weird though. He's a decent 3-point shooter but horrible closer to the basket.
   58. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:46 PM (#4718212)
A not insignificant part of Boston's trove of assets is cap relief, headlined by Bogans' completely unguaranteed 5mil.

Also, while I understand how some folks don't think Rondo is that good, I don't find it that hard to believe that Love might look back on some games atop this list and come to a different conclusion.

More importantly, though, he does't get to choose, the TWolves do. So while his willingness to re-sign or not with various teams will affect what offers get put on the table (at least Boston and Sacramento have made media noises that they'd trade without that assurance), the TWolves ought to go with the best one that does, regardless of Love's wishes.
   59. Publius Publicola Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:52 PM (#4718220)
I don't remember Allen putting up that 51 against Chicago at all.

Moses probably does though.
   60. theboyqueen Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:55 PM (#4718222)
Rubio over Lin, no contest. I agree with Manny for the most part about Klay Thompson as well; I figured the Wolves would rather roll the dice with Barnes but if they want Klay I would do it in a second.

Bucher has been a bay area guy forever. He brings nothing to the table and seems like a total creep.

I mean, just try to follow the thought process in an article like this, which I think(?) is trying to say Jimmer Fredette could have been Steph Curry had he not been drafted by the Kings.
   61. AROM Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:03 PM (#4718229)
Jeremy Lin could be involved.


In a superstar trade, Lin is a throw in, or the kind of guy who can make the salaries match. He's not very appealing otherwise. Decent player but overpaid.
   62. Bitter Mouse Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:13 PM (#4718239)
So far for most of the trades I have seen I would rather have Love for a year and then let him walk than take on salary filler and overpriced good players - with some so so draft picks. I know it is against tradition, and maybe the Garnett trade left a bad taste in my mouth, but if the trade doesn't involve young players or good draft picks who might be part of the next good Wolves team (sob) then why bother trading him?

I doubt he will tank and hurt his free agent value. And it is not like trading a great player for a pile of random stuff generally helps teams (there have been some exceptions), so why the fear of playing out the string and seeing what happens?

Try to keep him or acknowledge you will be bad and hope to win the lottery. Misc junk does neither.
   63. jmurph Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:14 PM (#4718240)
In a superstar trade, Lin is a throw in, or the kind of guy who can make the salaries match. He's not very appealing otherwise. Decent player but overpaid.


But I think the argument is that a lot of expiring contracts would be in play in a Rockets-Wolves deal, Lin and Asik included, as well as Morey's willingness to take back bad contracts. Houston is among the better scenarios if Minnesota decides they have to completely tear down again; but I'm guessing they don't really want to do that.
   64. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:21 PM (#4718249)
I don't remember Allen putting up that 51 against Chicago at all.

Moses probably does though.


You might be trolling me here, but I'll give you the predictable response. Bulls won that game, BTW, but the indelible image from that game - the best game I've ever attended in person - is this play. Allen's 51 is totally forgotten though. Don't you remember this series? The greatest first round playoff series even between 2 teams that were nowhere close to contenders? The series with 50 OTs, give or take? So many memorable things from that series. That was the beginning of the Rondo overhype, the extreme VDN hate, and so much more.
   65. Publius Publicola Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:25 PM (#4718254)
That was the beginning of the Rondo overhype


19 assists and 0 turnovers and you call that overhype?
   66. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:26 PM (#4718256)
I'm inclined to agree with Bitter Mouse's #62. The Wolves are under no obligation to trade the guy.

Though I think enough teams want him that eventually someone will actually offer something the Wolves can build around, especially since without Love next year they're probably the favorites to land the most ping-pong balls in the 2015 draft.
   67. Yardape Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:27 PM (#4718257)
They got Allen and Garnett (who, while he wasn't a free agent, was spoiling to be traded, wihch is sort of the same thing).


Wasn't Allen a trade as well? I remember thinking what a dumb trade it was for the Celtics. Then they got Garnett.
   68. theboyqueen Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:28 PM (#4718258)
One game like that is exactly how overhype begins. Plus he shot a Westbrook-esque 4 for 17.
   69. Publius Publicola Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:28 PM (#4718259)
Von Wafer. Where are you now?
   70. Publius Publicola Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:31 PM (#4718261)
One game like that is exactly how overhype begins. Plus he shot a Westbrook-esque 4 for 17.


Do the math on what 19 assists will get you and what 0 turnovers will cost you vs what 4 FG will get you and 13 misses will cost you.

I think you will be surprised by the results, since you don't seem to have any appreciation of any non-scoring plays.
   71. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:39 PM (#4718267)
I was thinking Lin could be a better fit for the Thunder since with all their outside shooting having someone who can finish at the rim would be better, but I think you guys have convinced me that Rubios defense and passing makes him the better player and fit, especially as they already have Jackson. And maybe Durant would put up even better numbers with a pass first PG.

I think the Thunder still would need at least one top draft pick added on to consider it though.
   72. theboyqueen Posted: June 03, 2014 at 03:57 PM (#4718284)
Publius, I'm done responding to you.
   73. Bitter Mouse Posted: June 03, 2014 at 04:08 PM (#4718292)
Publius, I'm done responding to you.


He REALLY likes Rondo. Irrationally so. Rondo is a fine player and all, but yeah.
   74. Publius Publicola Posted: June 03, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4718307)
If you don't like snark, then don't dish it out.
   75. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 03, 2014 at 04:58 PM (#4718324)
The Bobcats should trade their draft pick (#9, right?) for Thad Young.
   76. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 03, 2014 at 05:27 PM (#4718350)
I don't recall if this was posted on the last thread or not, but it's a bit more detail on that scam that resulted in the child porn stuff against Birdman. Good to see his name was completely cleared.
   77. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: June 03, 2014 at 07:50 PM (#4718412)
I think the Heat will win in 5. I just think that LeBron in his prime with a pretty good coach and supporting cast is not someone you can bet against, and I think after last year was so close, they will be extra motivated to not leave anything to chance.

I'm rooting for the Spurs, but mostly I'm very happy that Scott Brooks and Lance Stephenson aren't going to win a title this year.
   78. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 03, 2014 at 08:23 PM (#4718425)
I'm rooting for the Spurs, but mostly I'm very happy that Scott Brooks and Lance Stephenson aren't going to win a title this year.


Does anyone here think the Thunder will actually fire Scott Brooks this offseason? I would love to see it happen, because I would love to see what Durant and Westbrook could do together in a coherent, complex offense, but I'm not holding my breath. Stan Van Gundy seemed like the obvious goal to my mind before he signed on with Detroit, but it still seems like Brooks is the kind of guy who is leaving money on the table, and after the last few years of not quite getting there, I want to see where the ceiling could be for Durant and co.
   79. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 03, 2014 at 08:30 PM (#4718426)
As for predictions, I think the Heat will win in 6, but I have no confidence in that prediction. Given how tight last year's Finals were, I think this year's will come down to health and execution. I'm leaning Heat because LeBron is LeBron, and Tony Parker maybe being injured, but I could see almost anything happening, except either team getting swept.
   80. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 03, 2014 at 08:37 PM (#4718431)
I think Tim Duncan's going to have to play the most astounding series of his astounding career for the Spurs to win.

I would by no means rule this out.
   81. RollingWave Posted: June 03, 2014 at 09:13 PM (#4718450)
Am I the only guy who finds a poor correlation between assist and offense in the NBA? there are obviously some correlation but it is pretty weak relative to say .... true shooting %

This has been my problem with Rajon Rondo, he seems to me like your standard .750 OPS guy with 100 RBI that people rave about as being a "runs producer" in the 90s. (not a perfect analogy, but it's kinda there.) But never mind that he had been batting 6th in a lineup with a bunch of .400 OBP guys, it's that the team has not been consistently good offensively with him on the floor with him that's most damning.

To be fair to him though, until this year his adjusted +/- was pretty good, not super star level good, but consistently above average good. (but it was slightly below average this year. to give an idea, Lin has been around average in the last 2 year and Rubio was in that above average range this year as was Lin in that Knicks season. )

Essentially though, IF we assume this year is a fluke (which is not really that safe with a 29 year old coming off major injury) . Rondo's value is basically a 10-12m per year guy that he is paid now, so there is no real extra value in him, and the risk is not insignificant.

I like Lin a lot and would like to see how he'd fare in other situations, but at this juncture his value is obviously not that high until he proves otherwise. (BTW, he has consistently hit 3s better than Rubio, at a considerably higher volume, FWIW.)

Rubio is interesting, offensively he's meh but defensively he's very underrated. he makes a lot of turnover happen without excessive gambling. LIn is fairly average defensively I feel, his awareness and effort is good, and he plays the picks reasonably well, but he does get overpowered by very quick guys . and Houston's rotation coverage in general is quite bad.

Lin's season was weird, he started off very hot this year and after missing around 10 games out of 12 towards the end of December got a lot colder, one does wonder if the back was fully recovered for the rest of the year.


   82. rr Posted: June 03, 2014 at 09:30 PM (#4718458)
Lowe went SA in 7, which is the percentage pick, and he attached the obligatory caveat about Parker's ankle. Pelton pointed out that most of the trends, historical/numerical sign posts, etc., point to SA. The fact that the Oden/Beasley gambles have not yielded the bench boost that Miami was looking for points to SA too, IMO(I wonder if Spoelstra will consider using one of them if things are not going Miami's way). Winning multiple titles requires different secondary resources, and Mike Miller isn't around anymore, either.

But as Lowe said, "Miami has LeBron."

So, between that and the fact that as great/good as they are, Duncan is 37, Ginobili is 35, and Parker is not 100%, if I had to put money down, I would put it on the Heat.
   83. EddieA Posted: June 03, 2014 at 09:49 PM (#4718467)
Manu is 37. Tim is 38.

Last years series was the best basketball I've ever seen. Looking forward to this with the healthy Manu for the something extra.
   84. rr Posted: June 03, 2014 at 10:06 PM (#4718479)
We're both wrong on Ginobili--Ginobili is 36, although he is closer to 37 than 35. I read that he was 35 on a site somewhere, so it appears to have been wrong. Duncan is 38--his birthday was April 25. I read that he was 37 a few months ago and didn't know that he had had a bday.

   85. King Mekong Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:41 PM (#4718507)
Spurs in 6. 2014 Game 6 10 seconds to go heat down by 3: Lebron misses a 3 pter and the spurs get the rebound. Game over. Revenge!
   86. RollingWave Posted: June 03, 2014 at 11:45 PM (#4718508)
Houston is going to decline Parson's last year's option, making him a RFA this summer (if they didn't, he would be a UFA next summer.)

interesting, I'm not exactly sure how the cap hold works here, but I'm inclined to believe this means Houston's more or less locking the current group in .
   87. King Mekong Posted: June 04, 2014 at 12:12 AM (#4718519)
cap hold is 1.76M according to a tweet I read by pelton.
   88. RollingWave Posted: June 04, 2014 at 01:25 AM (#4718527)
seem to be mixed message on what it actually is, but suffice to say it's not very high.
   89. Publius Publicola Posted: June 04, 2014 at 10:47 AM (#4718665)
Am I the only guy who finds a poor correlation between assist and offense in the NBA?


The waqy passing is measured needs major revisions, sure. Passing quality might be the most critical element there is, even more than shooting, but it is poorly quantitated. Counting assists doesn't really do the job.
   90. GregD Posted: June 04, 2014 at 01:04 PM (#4718809)
   91. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 04, 2014 at 01:12 PM (#4718814)
Wait, how is this this first year that Noah made any of the All-NBA teams!?
   92. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 04, 2014 at 01:25 PM (#4718820)
Wait, how is this this first year that Noah made any of the All-NBA teams!?

Narrative. Well, that and it was his best season, and his most healthy. He probably missed too many games last year, and the year before he probably had good enough stats. But the centers were Howard/Bynum/Chandler on first-third teams and it's hard to put him ahead them those years.

His win also costs the Bulls $500k of cap space next season (thanks to a bonus), but the Eric Murphy trade keeps the Bulls from owing the tax. As blogabull put it, the Bulls are the financial champs again.
   93. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 04, 2014 at 01:39 PM (#4718832)
Yeah, I suppose I knew all of that. It just seems like he ought to have snagged a well-deserved third team at least somewhere along the line already.
   94. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 04, 2014 at 02:32 PM (#4718891)
Some fool did not vote LeBron first-team all-NBA.
That fool reportedly appears to be Chris Sheridan.
   95. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 04, 2014 at 02:43 PM (#4718901)
The 2014 All-NBA teams were revealed on Wednesday, with reigning MVP Kevin Durant as the sole unanimous selection for the first team. Heat forward LeBron James, who was also selected to the All-NBA first team, received one fewer first-team vote.

Joining Durant and James on the All-NBA first team are Houston’s James Harden, Chicago’s Joakim Noah and the L.A. Clippers’ Chris Paul. This was the first time Noah was elected to any of the three All-NBA teams and the first time that Harden had been chosen for the first team. San Antonio’s Tim Duncan and the L.A. Lakers’ Kobe Bryant (who missed almost all of the season with injury) were not selected to the first team after claiming that honor last year.

The All-NBA second team featured Warriors guard Stephen Curry, Spurs guard Tony Parker, Clippers forward Blake Griffin, Timberwolves forward Kevin Love and Rockets center Dwight Howard.

The All-NBA third team was headlined by Pacers forward Paul George, Blazers forward LaMarcus Aldridge, Bobcats center Al Jefferson, Suns guard Goran Dragic and Blazers guard Damian Lillard. Of all of this year’s All-NBA selections, Jefferson and Dragic were the only players chosen not to make the All-Star team.

...

Other players who received All-NBA votes, along with their corresponding point totals: Carmelo Anthony, New York, 86 (1 First Team vote); John Wall, Washington, 70; Tim Duncan, San Antonio, 63 (1); DeMar DeRozan, Toronto, 56; Anthony Davis, New Orleans, 40 (1); Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas, 37 (1); Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City, 32 (1); Kyle Lowry, Toronto, 29; DeAndre Jordan, L.A. Clippers, 21; Roy Hibbert, Indiana, 17; Marc Gasol, Memphis, 16 (2); DeMarcus Cousins, Sacramento, 14 (1); Kyrie Irving, Cleveland, 7; Dwyane Wade, Miami, 6; Mike Conley, Memphis, 4; Serge Ibaka, Oklahoma City, 4; Zach Randolph, Memphis, 4; Joe Johnson, Brooklyn, 4; Lance Stephenson, Indiana, 3; Ty Lawson, Denver, 2; Paul Millsap, Atlanta, 2; Chris Bosh, Miami, 1; Andre Drummond, Detroit, 1; Monta Ellis, Dallas, 1; Kawhi Leonard, San Antonio, 1.


What's the best team you could make with vote-getters who didn't make a team? I'd probably say Westbrook/Wade/Leonard/Davis/Gasol. I wouldn't mind their chances against the third team, anyway.
   96. AROM Posted: June 04, 2014 at 02:56 PM (#4718917)
Rondo is a very good passer, but his assist rates are exaggerated. He often plays for his stats. He'll go out of his way to feed a teammate on a break when he can just lay it in himself.

Wilt Chamberlain once led the league in assists with 702, had 630 the year before. Bill Russell's career high was 472. Was Wilt a better passer than Russell?
   97. AROM Posted: June 04, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4718918)
Carmelo Anthony, New York, 86 (1 First Team vote)


A NY writer paid off by the team in a desperate attempt to get him to stay?
   98. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 04, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4718944)
Sheridan?

EDIT: Nope. Steve Martin, Jerk Bobcats Radio
   99. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 04, 2014 at 03:19 PM (#4718957)
Looking over that list, it's quite stupid how the position stuff works. You can pretty much put anyone anywhere you want, which almost makes it surprising we almost always still get 2G, 2F, 1C. For instance, to put Melo on the 1st team, that guy put Durant as a guard. Dirk, Love, Griffin and Aldridge all have votes as a center. Both LeBron and Paul George also have guard votes.

Sheridan's first team was Griffin, Durant, Noah, Harden, Curry.
   100. rr Posted: June 04, 2014 at 03:23 PM (#4718966)
Flip Saunders is going to have a stressful summer.
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