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Wednesday, October 11, 2017

OT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, some of whom still care about baseball playoffs, but all of whom agree the Celtics gave up too much for Irving.

Here’s the thread’s top 50 players ranking.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 11, 2017 at 11:21 AM | 1414 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   1201. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 13, 2017 at 11:23 PM (#5575678)
flip
   1202. tshipman Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:00 AM (#5575700)
WTF is up with Elfrid Payton's hair?
   1203. PJ Martinez Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:09 AM (#5575706)
FWIW, RPM is here.
   1204. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:26 AM (#5575717)
I am a LeBron and think he's a pretty good guy off the court but this Knicks' spat with their rookie point guard and Kanter is basically his fault. Not a good look.
   1205. tshipman Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:29 AM (#5575718)
FWIW, RPM is here.


I hate RPM.

RPM, for example, wants to tell me that James Harden has been a better defender than Kevin Durant this year.

If I look at the stats, I see the Warriors have been 8 points better on defense with Durant on the floor, he's averaging 3 steals + blocks per game, and he gets 6.8 defensive boards per game.

The Rockets have played 1 point better on defense with Harden, he's averaging 2.1 steals + blocks per game, and he gets 4.2 defensive rebounds.

I'm sure Harden makes up for it with his lock down help defense, but on what basis does RPM tell me that Harden is better?
   1206. cmd600 Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:01 AM (#5575726)
, but on what basis does RPM tell me that Harden is better?


On what basis does a month of games provide a large enough sample size to declare whether a stat is any good or not?

I'm guessing you didn't hate RPM at the end of last year when it said Harden was pretty bad defensively, and Durant was pretty good.
   1207. cmd600 Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:13 AM (#5575727)
The Cavs are 30-30 in their last 60 regular season games. I am a big believer in the idea that the Cavs have an extra playoff gear but I have to believe that this is a troubling trend. Just not a good team right now.


I'm not sure that the second half of last season is useful data. The Cavs were far enough ahead that cruising made little difference.

This year could be a different story, but it's still pretty early, and they are down two starters at the moment.
   1208. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:25 AM (#5575728)
big win. this schedule has been murder, and the sixers have done well to fight to a .500 record going into a 6 game homestand.
FWIW, RPM is here.
sixers have 2 of the top 10, and both of them played their best games of the season tonight.

Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
Robert Covington: 29 points on 12 shots, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 steals. 2 days away from getting paid.
whatever he gets, he's worth it. i think. maybe. who knows.
   1209. tshipman Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:41 AM (#5575730)
On what basis does a month of games provide a large enough sample size to declare whether a stat is any good or not?

I'm guessing you didn't hate RPM at the end of last year when it said Harden was pretty bad defensively, and Durant was pretty good.


Of course I did! What I hate about RPM is that it's a black box. It's a system that says, "Trust me," and I can't.
   1210. cmd600 Posted: November 14, 2017 at 02:29 AM (#5575734)
Of course I did! What I hate about RPM is that it's a black box. It's a system that says, "Trust me," and I can't.


I see you completely ignored the point I was actually making.

As far as the black box part, that's unfortunate, but it is someone's living. But whether or not you should trust it should not be based on its gears being visible but how predictive it is. 538 found a 50/50 blend of BPM and RPM to be the best method available to predict future player value in it's CARMELO projections, so RPM has at least some things going for it.
   1211. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 14, 2017 at 07:10 AM (#5575742)
Ben Simmons is just so much more impressive than the numbers look. Just way more explosive in the halfcourt than I thought he would be, especially considering his size, and you see LeBron-level passing instincts.
   1212. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:24 AM (#5575790)
I get the feeling Enes Kanter thinks he's much higher on the NBA food chain than he really is and it's pretty entertaining. If only he had that much passion for pick and roll defense...
   1213. jmurph Posted: November 14, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5575813)
FWIW, RPM is here.

I like RPM well enough, it adds to the discussion, and I sort of mentally combine it with BPM and VORP when I'm looking at player rankings. There are always a few weird things that stick out: Kevin Love was 25th in the league in RPM Wins last year, for instance, but 72nd in VORP (if you set the parameters for minutes played at at least as many as he played). RPM seems to like his defense an unjustifiably amount.
   1214. Hot Wheeling American Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:10 AM (#5575823)
Went to my first Knicks game in 20+ years. Probably helped by playing LeBron (and a twenty point lead), of course, but the atmosphere was legit electric. Seems like the CW is true and the Knicks crowd is great. Shame they haven't had many opportunities to show their stuff this entire century. And the arena doesn't blast music while the home team is on defense? That was a pleasant surprise.

The Sugar Hill Gang's halftime performance? Well, they were there, that is true.
   1215. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 14, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5575849)
I've been to a Knicks game, it was like 8 years ago. The atmosphere wasn't electric, but the team wasn't good, and the guy sitting next to me was really nice, and we talked basketball. But, LeBron also wasn't playing that game.

I love LeBron, so I give him the benefit of the doubt when I otherwise shouldn't pretty often, but I really didn't care for him saying the stuff about Dennis Smith Jr. should be a Knick. It's not his place, and is rude to both the Mavericks and their fans, as well as Ntilikina. I can't help but think he wanted to create some drama and buzz heading into the Garden, which is ok, but I thought he did it in a pretty assclownish and not very well thought out way, which isn't normally his style.
   1216. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5575875)
My favorite LeBron Draft Drama is still Miami taking Shabazz Napier after LeBron tweeted about how great Napier is.
   1217. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5575877)
LeBron's current IG post is RDF.
   1218. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:33 AM (#5575896)
joel embiid played 35:46 last night, again a career high. 32 points, 16 rebounds and +23 in a game the sixers won by 4.



   1219. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:36 AM (#5575897)
[1218] He's gotta work on the tunnel vision on offense, but other than that it was a great game.
   1220. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:42 AM (#5575903)
My favorite LeBron Draft Drama is still Miami taking Shabazz Napier after LeBron tweeted about how great Napier is.

And then he left anyway!

But, to be fair to Napier and leBron, he's still in the league which isn't bad for a pick taken so late in the first round. He's actually a useful rotation player for Portland this year, too.
   1221. aberg Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5575914)
I went to the Clippers-Sixers game last night. I agree with the statement that Simmons is much more explosive than I expected. The shot isn't there- he missed badly any time he shot outside of about 5' and looked bad doing it- but he looks excellent at pretty much every other aspect of the game. Embiid played by far his best game of the year. He's still a little sloppy with the ball, but he has such a soft touch for someone his size and closes on the rim so easily. He also gets rebounds very easily over everyone, including a physical specimen like DJ (who he completely took out of the game).

Blake ended up having a good game even though it seemed like he was pressing at times. It seemed like he felt like he should be able to overwhelm Saric easily every time he touched the ball, but Saric played hard and the rest of the Sixers did a good job closing down on him. Lou Williams had a really fun game. I told my friend that "Jamal Crawford" should be a title that gets passed down rather than a person's name and that Lou Williams is "Jamal Crawford" now. Interestingly, Doc decided to start SF Sindarius Thornwell at PG and never really play a PG all night. Believe it or not, that tended to make the offense a little spastic.

Overall, impressive win by the Sixers. You couldn't ask for much more out of Embiid and Simmons except to value the ball a bit more. They beat a solid team on the road. I am all in on Simmons. I'm enjoying his early play as much as anyone since Lebron.
   1222. jmurph Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:05 PM (#5575920)
Good to have a non-paywalled piece from Pelton. The takeaway isn't exactly breaking news- the Celtics will regress!- but it's informative and interesting. Hopefully ESPN will put more of his stuff on the main site rather than Insider.
   1223. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:16 PM (#5575928)
Lou Williams had a really fun game. I told my friend that "Jamal Crawford" should be a title that gets passed down rather than a person's name and that Lou Williams is "Jamal Crawford" now.
lou williams has his own spot in NBA history. he doesn't need to step on jamal crawford's.

if you want to call some clipper "jamal crawford", the guy you want is jawun evans.
I agree with the statement that Simmons is much more explosive than I expected.
where is this surprise coming from? two of the things we knew about simmons were that he's huge and that he's an exceptional athlete.
   1224. aberg Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5575948)
where is this surprise coming from? two of the things we knew about simmons were that he's huge and that he's an exceptional athlete.


1. I knew that he was great at all of the measurables, but the speed of his cross-over and first step are as much skill as athleticism.
2. I have seen him blow by middling college players. Doing it against good NBA defenders like Austin Rivers and Blake Griffin is more impressive.
3. He just missed a year with an injury.
   1225. jmurph Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:49 PM (#5575954)
   1226. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 14, 2017 at 12:58 PM (#5575960)
Interesting piece on Cleveland and Love.
from the link:
Jeff Green is currently the backup center


this could be a radical opinion, but...maybe NBA teams need a GM.
   1227. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5575974)
K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop
1h1 hour ago

Mirotic is at Bulls practice again. Hoiberg said he’s talking to teammates except Portis.

K.C. Johnson‏ @KCJHoop
49m49 minutes ago

Paxson yesterday and Hoiberg today made it clear they're working on trying to get Mirotic to talk to Portis.
   1228. jmurph Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:32 PM (#5575992)
WHY ARE THEY GIVING CONSTANT UPDATES TO THE MEDIA? It's insanity.

EDIT: Breaking: I'm being told they made accidental eye contact. Quickly looked away.
EDIT 2: Reports are that Mirotic looked away first.
   1229. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:33 PM (#5575993)
am i completely insane for wanting the sixers to make a run at kevin love this offseason? given the going rate for guys like bledsoe, george, melo and cousins, they might not have to give up much more than saric, a pick in the 10-20 range and one or two foreign prospects.

i'm not sure that love is still capable of combining high efficiency with high usage, but he's still a high efficiency, moderate usage contributor. him and embiid can trade off offensive possessions in the post without sacrificing any floor spacing. and defensively, well, love isn't good, but if embiid, covington and simmons are as good as they appear to be, they might be able to get away with it.
   1230. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5575998)
WHY ARE THEY GIVING CONSTANT UPDATES TO THE MEDIA? It's insanity.

It's pretty much all the media is asking about. I mean, Holliday just had a kid, so he's missing the next game they're going to start Dunn and Grant. Exciting stuff, but not nearly as exciting as this junior high gossip (I'm not even linking to the tweets showing Mirotic on a bike or lifting in the background of practice; it's getting weird). They're also constantly asking the other players, who are doing a much better job of giving less tweetable answers.
   1231. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:40 PM (#5576001)
I like RPM, but you need to adjust by position (and the 17-18 sample size is pretty small).
   1232. jmurph Posted: November 14, 2017 at 01:42 PM (#5576006)
It's pretty much all the media is asking about.

Sure, but contrary to what they appear to believe, they are not actually obligated to recap every single second of the day in response to questions from the press.
   1233. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 14, 2017 at 02:25 PM (#5576074)
I went to the Clippers-Sixers game last night.
Dude, you brought your talents to Los Angeles and you didn't mention it?!
   1234. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 14, 2017 at 02:26 PM (#5576075)
Is there a reason the Bulls management feels the need to give us these Mirotic-Portis updates? I can't think of a single positive thing coming from them.

EDIT: Coke to [1228]
   1235. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 14, 2017 at 02:39 PM (#5576087)
   1236. stevegamer Posted: November 14, 2017 at 03:47 PM (#5576177)
am i completely insane for wanting the sixers to make a run at kevin love this offseason? given the going rate for guys like bledsoe, george, melo and cousins, they might not have to give up much more than saric, a pick in the 10-20 range and one or two foreign prospects.

i'm not sure that love is still capable of combining high efficiency with high usage, but he's still a high efficiency, moderate usage contributor. him and embiid can trade off offensive possessions in the post without sacrificing any floor spacing. and defensively, well, love isn't good, but if embiid, covington and simmons are as good as they appear to be, they might be able to get away with it.


Honestly, the 76ers might be able to get Love cheaper than that at the rate this is going. Might be able to keep Saric. This assumes LeBron is still in Cleveland running the show. The need a center with some defensive skills.

   1237. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 14, 2017 at 06:04 PM (#5576289)
I mean, the probability that Love requests a trade within about 24 hours of LeBron leaving is about 1000%, right?
   1238. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 14, 2017 at 07:24 PM (#5576314)
I mean, the probability that Love requests a trade within about 24 hours of LeBron leaving is about 1000%, right?
that seems likely, but i wouldn't be shocked if love lets things play out for a year before pushing the issue.
   1239. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 14, 2017 at 08:26 PM (#5576349)
that seems likely, but i wouldn't be shocked if love lets things play out for a year before pushing the issue.

Agreed. It'd also be interesting to see what happens to the team. Now they're old and expensive but if IT3 looks healthy and is willing to resign, a core of IT3, Love, Crowder, Thompson and Nets pick doesn't look awful. I wouldn't be surprised if Love wanted to be the man again, and frankly I think he has a bit he'd need to do to rehab his image.
   1240. tshipman Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:17 PM (#5576411)
I did not watch the Toronto/Houston game, but from the boxscore, it looks miserable.

DeRozan with 4/11 shooting and 16 FTs! Harden with 7/20 shooting, 8 turnovers and 18 FTs!

It's the NBA, on TNT!
   1241. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 14, 2017 at 11:50 PM (#5576422)
trade machine: who says no?

LAL: markelle fultz
PHI: brandon ingram
   1242. tshipman Posted: November 15, 2017 at 12:10 AM (#5576432)
The Lakers say no.

Come on, now.
   1243. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 15, 2017 at 12:30 AM (#5576434)
Even if he wasn't broken in the shoulder and/or head, what the hell would the Lakers do with Fultz?
   1244. PJ Martinez Posted: November 15, 2017 at 07:04 AM (#5576451)
I think the Sixers might say no? It doesn't seem obvious to me which player has more value around the league right now. I would probably still guess Fultz, as worrying as his start has been. Ingram's not quite lighting the world on fire, though he's shown flashes.
   1245. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: November 15, 2017 at 09:30 AM (#5576475)
The Sixers never even think about it. You don't trade up to take a guy #1 and then give up on him 12 games into his first season unless you are getting an established, youngish star player back. And I like Ingram a lot.
   1246. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5576555)
I do think it's a trade where both teams probably say no. Both players are in a sell-low value now, and it's too early for a challenge trade. Also the fit doesn't work great for either team imo.
   1247. PJ Martinez Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:31 AM (#5576575)
Speaking of: here's a piece on the predictive value of a top ten pick's first ten games. (Fultz has only played four so far.)
   1248. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5576580)
[simmons'] two triple-doubles are already as many as any rookie has posted since Lamar Odom had three in 1999-2000.

Simmons has made a league-high 31 passes from the paint to set up 3-pointers, which 76ers teammates have converted at an impressive 48.5 percent clip. Overall, Simmons' 14.5 potential assists per game rank fifth in the NBA, heady stuff for a rookie point guard.

Simmons has defended 95 pick-and-rolls as the screener defender and 127 as the ball-handler defender, per Second Spectrum data, making him one of just three players in the NBA (combo forwards Jeff Green and P.J. Tucker are the others) to defend at least 90 of each.

there's reason to believe Simmons may be the most versatile rookie we've ever seen
link
   1249. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:54 AM (#5576592)
Simmons has a rare ability to sink low for a player his size with his fluid hips, and the result is the maximization of his straight line burst and explosiveness:
Simmons looks like a damn 240 pound jaguar dipping and suddenly accelerating. To reiterate, humans his size are not supposed to have these kinds of movement skills, especially in conjunction with coordination and skill with the ball, and his athleticism, specifically in terms of first step and burst, can’t be overstated.

The Wizards notably tried an under coverage, mostly on side pick-and-rolls. What makes Simmons such a headache is he can still turn the corner with his burst in these settings, beating players like Kelly Oubre and Otto Porter to the rim instead of pulling up off the dribble (the goal of the defense here):
Perhaps the most promising component of Simmons’ early play from Sixers fans’ perspective (I’d imagine) is the developing chemistry he’s showing with Embiid. Two generational talents coexisting as harmoniously as they have thus far is enormous for Philadelphia’s future prospects, and when you watch the tape it’s clear their rapport is growing.

I get asked sometimes how close Simmons is to his ceiling, which was one of the primary motivators for writing this piece. I honestly think as cliche as it sounds that he’s just scratching the surface. There’s so much room for improvement in aforementioned areas such as finishing and untapped versatility across multiple fronts.
link
   1250. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 15, 2017 at 05:27 PM (#5576847)
Ben Simmons could miss his next 110 shots and still have a higher field goal percentage than Lonzo Ball.
   1251. SteveF Posted: November 15, 2017 at 05:41 PM (#5576860)
Technically it's 111 shots.
   1252. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 15, 2017 at 08:33 PM (#5576921)
this is an extraordinary contract. great work, large adult son:
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
Covington's 2017-18 contract will be renegotiated with the #sixers remaining cap space, then he'll receive a 4-year extension worth roughly $45 million, per sources.
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
Rough numbers for the Covington extension: 2017-18: $16,698,103 2018-19: $10,018,862 2019-20: $10,820,371 2020-21: $11,621,880 2021-22: $12,423,389
   1253. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:04 PM (#5576967)
Good for Covington and the Sixers. Now they just need to extend Okafor.
   1254. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:09 PM (#5576970)
The Hawks might be the worst team in the NBA. They just beat SAC by 46.
   1255. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:47 PM (#5576984)
this is fun.
   1256. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 15, 2017 at 10:57 PM (#5576988)
brandon ingram moves like a giraffe that's had its kneecaps amputated.
   1257. JC in DC Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:03 PM (#5576992)
If the Covington deal is "extraordinary" maybe the Hardaway deal isn't so bad after all? Maybe it's "ordinary?"
   1258. JC in DC Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:11 PM (#5576995)
That kneecap-less giraffe is playing pretty well.
   1259. JC in DC Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:13 PM (#5576996)
The Lakers have been much better without Ball tonight than with.
   1260. SteveF Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:18 PM (#5577001)
The Sixers have certainly missed more shots without Ball on the court. Maybe there's a basketball analog to a law of thermodynamics: Conservation of Bricks.
   1261. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:19 PM (#5577002)
Man, that is a great deal for the 6ers. It's basically the Tony Snell contract.
   1262. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:45 PM (#5577012)
If the Covington deal is "extraordinary" maybe the Hardaway deal isn't so bad after all? Maybe it's "ordinary?"

covington is shooting 50% from beyond the arc this year; hardaway is shooting 30%.
covington is one of the best wing defenders in the league; hardaway is average at best.
The Lakers have been much better without Ball tonight than with.
embiid finished the first half +14.

i said this about a week ago:
embiid is not playing well this year. he's still pretty good, but he hasn't taken a step forward from last year
it is no longer true. this is what embiid is like when he's playing well. 32 and 16 against LAC; 18, 9 and 4 in the first half tonight.
   1263. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:45 PM (#5577013)
I winced at Ball's air-ball open three from the top of the key. It's just not pretty to watch.
   1264. SteveF Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:49 PM (#5577018)
Nevermind. I assumed the renegotiated salary wasn't part of the $62 million. That Covington deal is crazy good for the Sixers.
   1265. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:55 PM (#5577023)
The Lakers have been much better without Ball tonight than with.
That's starting to happen way too often. Early on, I could excuse the lack of shooting because the team was better with him.

Looking at the 76er's young duo, it makes me want to trade Ball and Ingram for anything. Sell high, while they can.
   1266. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 15, 2017 at 11:55 PM (#5577024)
Well, factor in the pay bump from $1.57 to $15 this year, and Covington is really getting more than Hardaway. That's as it should be, of course. Covington is better -- and by way more than half a million dollars a year.
even with the bump in covington's salary this year, his contract is 5/64, v. hardaway's 4/71.

but covington's salary this year isn't important. what's important is that his raise this year allows the sixers to pay him significantly less money next year. that preserves enough cap room for them to dangle a max contract next summer.
   1267. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:01 AM (#5577029)
Those last two Ball 3s in a 5 second stretch were not even close. Yikes.
   1268. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:01 AM (#5577031)
these guys are breathtakingly exceptional.

jesus christ, that eurostep.
   1269. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:03 AM (#5577032)
jesus christ, that eurostep.
That took my breath away.
Those last two Ball 3s in a 5 second stretch were not even close. Yikes.
Also took my breath away. Vomit.
   1270. SteveF Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:09 AM (#5577036)
LA has taken 24 more shots than Philly and made only 1 less free throw. You'd think that would be a recipe for a 15 point lead.
   1271. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:28 AM (#5577040)
has anyone ever set a career high for points, rebounds, blocks and assists in the same game? because embiid is about to. he's sitting on 36/14/6/6. he needs 1 more assist and 3 more rebounds.

also, simmons is on a triple double watch. sitting on 16/8/10.
   1272. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:31 AM (#5577041)
has anyone ever set a career high for points, rebounds, blocks and assists in the same game?
Almost everyone does that at least once: in their first game.
   1273. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:50 AM (#5577044)
It's a pity the Lakers' best 5 squad doesn't include anyone who plays defense. Embiid isn't having to work at all to get his points.
   1274. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 16, 2017 at 01:37 AM (#5577057)
It's a pity the Lakers' best 5 squad doesn't include anyone who plays defense. Embiid isn't having to work at all to get his points.
i don't know why walton didn't tap bogut in the last 6 minutes. embiid made randle a doormat.

embiid: 46, 15, 7 assists and 7 blocks
simmons: 18, 9, 10 assists and 5 steals

the sixers got almost nothing from roster spots 3-17. saric and redick combined to shoot 1/15 from beyond the arc, amir johnson had a 3:1 voskuhl.
   1275. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 16, 2017 at 06:54 AM (#5577079)
If the Covington deal is "extraordinary" maybe the Hardaway deal isn't so bad after all? Maybe it's "ordinary?"

Covington is good, THJ is bad and Covington gets paid less over more years. The THJ deal is still awful.
   1276. PJ Martinez Posted: November 16, 2017 at 07:33 AM (#5577084)
Embiid was awesome, clearly. He switches his pivot feet on this one, though.
   1277. JC in DC Posted: November 16, 2017 at 07:34 AM (#5577085)
I don't think it's awful. I'm not sure it's good, but I don't think it's awful. First, I don't think he's bad. I think he's actually solid, certainly much improved over what he was in NY. Second, you're an Irving hater: your judgment on players is suspect. The money is too high, for sure, but I think THJ is getting better. He's only 25, I think. I'm hopeful.

All this is going to look very silly when the NYKs start their swoon in the next few weeks.
   1278. jmurph Posted: November 16, 2017 at 09:18 AM (#5577118)
I don't think it's awful. I'm not sure it's good, but I don't think it's awful. First, I don't think he's bad. I think he's actually solid, certainly much improved over what he was in NY.

What is the thing that THJ is supposed to be good at? He's strictly a shooter who is not actually good at shooting. He's just bad, I don't really see any argument otherwise.
   1279. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 16, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5577135)
Ben Golliver‏ @BenGolliver
Sixers’ Joel Embiid on his 46P/15R/7A/7B effort: “I wish I could have had the quadruple-double with blocks. Shoutout Hassan Whiteside.”



https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbi_3haltFK/?hl=en&taken-by=joelembiid
Embiid was awesome, clearly. He switches his pivot feet on this one, though.
there was a dribble in there, so i think it's okay.
   1280. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 16, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5577136)
[1277] I'm willing to admit my Kyrie take looks awful (so far, there's time!) because he's now (a) giving playoff Kyrie level effort on defense and (b) getting much better at making advanced passing reads (thought Bill Simmons nailed this one on one of his recent pods). That said, THJ hasn't done anything but be who I thought he was since signing. He can't shoot, he can't defend, doesn't really help on the boards, not much of a creator for others, but he can create a lot of low efficiency shots for himself. Also, he has a fantastic shimmy. That's worth something, but not what he's getting paid.

EDIT: [1279] Embiid is just the best. Every time he opens his mouth or puts his fingers on a keyboard.
   1281. JC in DC Posted: November 16, 2017 at 09:35 AM (#5577137)
Isn't Covington a worse career shooter? Unless you think the 50% from 2 and 3 is sustainable?
   1282. jmurph Posted: November 16, 2017 at 09:49 AM (#5577147)
Isn't Covington a worse career shooter? Unless you think the 50% from 2 and 3 is sustainable?

Oh I don't love Covington, but he can defend and, as pointed out above, it's a better contract.
   1283. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 16, 2017 at 10:07 AM (#5577162)
In addition to everything else everyone has said, the Sixers still have max cap space and the Knicks won't. So THJR's is a more expensive deal for a worse player that's even worse in context.

Also, the Bulls still suck. 7 points in the first quarter last night. Can there be a belt/title that gets passed around the league for the current worst team? It's probably being shared by the Kings and Bulls at the moment.
   1284. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 16, 2017 at 10:08 AM (#5577163)
I stand by my "healthy Philadelphia could win the Eastern Conference" hot take.
   1285. jmurph Posted: November 16, 2017 at 10:11 AM (#5577164)
Also, the Bulls still suck. 7 points in the first quarter last night. Can there be a belt/title that gets passed around the league for the current worst team? It's probably being shared by the Kings and Bulls at the moment.

I continue to not understand why the Kings are so bad, they have some actual talent.
   1286. jmurph Posted: November 16, 2017 at 10:12 AM (#5577165)
I stand by my "healthy Philadelphia could win the Eastern Conference" hot take.

It's funny to think how good they could be if they didn't screw up the Noel and Okafor situations, potentially the Fultz pick (though I'm in the still too early camp on that one), didn't waste the money/spot on Amir Johnson, etc.
   1287. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 16, 2017 at 10:26 AM (#5577176)

It's funny to think how good they could be if they didn't screw up the Noel and Okafor situations, potentially the Fultz pick (though I'm in the still too early camp on that one), didn't waste the money/spot on Amir Johnson, etc.


Although somewhat true, their rate of hitting on top picks (2/4, not counting Fultz) is pretty good when you consider the hits are home runs. Now, Simmons was a consensus #1 although there ended up being some chatter closer to the draft about Ingram.

With Noel, was much really screwed up? He was in a terrible draft, was considered the #1 pick if he'd not been hurt. He is a solid NBA player but didn't develop enough offensively to really help a team, especially one as spacing challenged as Philly was, so they let him walk. Seems like they played that one just about perfect, in my mind.

Okafor, I feel like they're yanking him around a bit, but he was the consensus #2, and he's just not shown the maturity or talent to get regular playing time in the NBA. He's been in the league long enough to where they don't owe him any favors or chances, he's got to earn them.
   1288. jmurph Posted: November 16, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5577181)
With Noel, was much really screwed up? He was in a terrible draft, was considered the #1 pick if he'd not been hurt. He is a solid NBA player but didn't develop enough offensively to really help a team, especially one as spacing challenged as Philly was, so they let him walk. Seems like they played that one just about perfect, in my mind.

Okafor, I feel like they're yanking him around a bit, but he was the consensus #2, and he's just not shown the maturity or talent to get regular playing time in the NBA. He's been in the league long enough to where they don't owe him any favors or chances, he's got to earn them.

They have thus far turned those two guys into nothing, that's what I meant. Not the drafting (the Noel pick was clearly a good one). It was also the 3 straight centers thing that didn't take hindsight to find fault in.
   1289. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 16, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5577187)
i don't know why walton didn't tap bogut in the last 6 minutes. embiid made randle a doormat.
I was wondering that, too. The Lakers had every chance to win last night. It was a failure of coaching.
   1290. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 16, 2017 at 10:55 AM (#5577201)
They have thus far turned those two guys into nothing, that's what I meant. Not the drafting (the Noel pick was clearly a good one). It was also the 3 straight centers thing that didn't take hindsight to find fault in.


The 76ers are playing the high risk high reward game, and so I think it is expected that they would be boom or bust. And at 50% they are doing pretty well, so long as their two booms stay healthy.
   1291. jmurph Posted: November 16, 2017 at 11:01 AM (#5577205)
The 76ers are playing the high risk high reward game

Hmmm, I don't think that's right at all. The accumulation of as many picks as possible was about limiting the impact of the bust rate, as I understood it- actually limiting risk.

Also Okafor was a consensus top 3 pick, he wasn't considered high risk.
   1292. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 16, 2017 at 11:19 AM (#5577230)
I feel like there were sufficient questions around Okafor come draft time (not to mention team construction issues) that the Sixers do deserve blame for going with him in that spot. Memory may be off though.
   1293. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 16, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5577263)
I feel like there were sufficient questions around Okafor come draft time (not to mention team construction issues) that the Sixers do deserve blame for going with him in that spot. Memory may be off though.
okafor was a panic pick. embiid had reinjured himself, the sixers didn't expect him to be available and while the sixers had been interested in porzingis for at least a year and a half (there were rumors that they guaranteed to pick him in the lottery before he pulled out of the 2014 draft), porzingis's representatives withheld his medical information and refused to let the sixers meet with him.
   1294. jmurph Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:04 PM (#5577301)
Again I don't judge the drafting of the individuals, but of the 3 straight centers. And I think even if there were questions, most teams would have taken Okafor 3rd or even 2nd. But then he can't be considered a high risk/high reward pick, as he was pretty much a consensus top 2 pick until just a bit before draft night.

They're on pace to turn that consensus top 2 or 3 pick into nothing, though, which is the problem.

Anyway, I meant post 1286 as a backhanded compliment: they're really impressive so far this year despite squandering what they had in Noel, getting nothing from the 3rd overall pick from 3 drafts ago, and getting nothing thus far from the most recent #1 overall pick. That's kind of amazing! And underscores how good Embiid and Simmons have been.
   1295. MHS Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:16 PM (#5577318)
Although somewhat true, their rate of hitting on top picks (2/4, not counting Fultz) is pretty good when you consider the hits are home runs


That is a remarkable overstatement.

The 76'ers get absolutely no credit for drafting Ben Simmons. You don't get credit for being historicly bad and then getting good ping pong ball luck to take the consensus BPA.

I will give them credit for Embiid, that was a gamble and it's paying off. Again worth pointing out though, that they were historically bad to get that high of a pick that many years running.

The Noel pick was fine. No credit or blame, just run of the mill.

The Okafor pick was fine, I guess, it was a bad draft and he may have been BPA. But they did have a HUGE log jam and the way it played out was predictable where only 1 of the 3 high pick centers have a home.

Fultz looks like a pretty big blunder at this point, but their is time. That Ringer article posted above isn't optimistic though. Picking him isn't the problem it's paying the tax of a second high pick to do it. Maybe the pick ends up mediocre but that isn't the expected value. Potentially huge blunder.

The place where they do get credit is Covington. Great job with him.

Let's stop giving teams credit for being bad, and really any praise for Philly at this point is simply that.


   1296. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5577348)
Hmmm, I don't think that's right at all. The accumulation of as many picks as possible was about limiting the impact of the bust rate, as I understood it- actually limiting risk.


I think you missed my point. When selecting players they tended to go - from my opinion - with the highest upside player they could find. Sometimes that is the best player available, but no always (Embiid for example). Accumulating as many picks as possible is complementary to that strategy.

And when you pick the highest upside picks, ignoring or minimizing potential red flags - injury history, positional log jams, or character - then you are going to tend to see outcomes like what happened with the 76ers.
   1297. jmurph Posted: November 16, 2017 at 12:40 PM (#5577356)
I think you missed my point.

I didn't, I just disagree. I don't think that describes the Okafor or even Fultz pick. I do think it describes the Embiid and Noel picks.
   1298. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 16, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5577390)
feeling good about my sabonis comp for embiid.
   1299. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 16, 2017 at 01:20 PM (#5577401)
from hinkie's manifesto:

Robert is a mistake I rubbed my own nose in for over a year. The 2013 Draft was a flurry of activity for us—a handful of trades and selections in both the first and second rounds. We had more action following the draft as we tried to finalize our summer league team and get the myriad trade calls set up with the NBA. I could see this coming a few days before and we informed the media that this kind of approach might lead to an unusually late start for the post-draft press conference. Several of you were still there late that night. At about 1:00 a.m. I went downstairs to address an equally exhausted media on deadline from their editors. When I returned upstairs, the undrafted Robert Covington was gone, having agreed to play for another club’s summer league team, eventually making their regular season roster. He torched the D-League that year, haunting me all the while. When he became available 17 months later, we pounced. But I shudder, even now, at that (nearly) missed opportunity.


from deadspin:
You almost certainly missed it over the weekend, but the Philadelphia 76ers made a big addition to their roster, scooping up free-agent forward Robert Covington. If you've never heard of Robert Covington, that's because he's an undrafted second-year player who had previously seen the floor in just seven NBA games, and the Sixers don't really like signing players anyone has ever actually heard of.

...Which brings us back to Robert Covington. The Sixers did not sign Robert Covington or any of the other undrafted scrubs that populate the roster because they are looking for good basketball players who can help them win basketball games. They signed him because they only have to pay him $816,482 to go out and do things like shoot 1-of-5 from the field in 17 minutes against the San Antonio Spurs. Robert Covington is in Philly to help the Sixers lose.

   1300. aberg Posted: November 16, 2017 at 01:26 PM (#5577408)
I love Simmons so much. His vision and ability to create off the dribble at that size are so unique. I questioned how great he could be if he couldn't shoot. Well, he can't shoot (at all) and he's extremely great. Embiid is also a joy to watch. The face-up game and the agility at his size are unmatched in the league. He also seems to be having such a great time that it's infectious. I have been a reflexive Philly hater (in the Chappelle "hater's ball" sense) for years for no great reason. The way they play has totally won me over and their big games are now appointment viewing for me.

It's so weird that I'm having this experience when the Wolves are actually playing well. They ended a 12-game losing streak to SA last night with KAT going nuts and my takeaway has to do with Philly beating a lottery opponent.
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