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Wednesday, October 11, 2017

OT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, some of whom still care about baseball playoffs, but all of whom agree the Celtics gave up too much for Irving.

Here’s the thread’s top 50 players ranking.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 11, 2017 at 11:21 AM | 1904 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   1501. sardonic Posted: November 22, 2017 at 08:55 AM (#5579994)
Love that. Meanwhile, I'm trying to discern whether Kyrie Irving just has an unusual way of putting things, or if he's a genuinely odd dude. To wit: "I have family members who come from knowing energy, and it was passed along to me."


It almost feels like performance art at this point. Or maybe he's just an odd dude. Or maybe there's a whole community where his way would be normal, and to them we're the weird ones. It's fun to have players with personality on the team though. I'd actually lump the Spurs in that category too, with all the cheesy local commercials and stuff. The Heatles didn't have as much of that.
   1502. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 22, 2017 at 01:19 PM (#5580257)
Curtis Harris‏ @curtismharris
**** ALERT ****

I have video of bear fighting people at 76ers games in the 1970s.

**** ALERT ****
10:44 AM - 22 Nov 2017
   1503. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 22, 2017 at 05:31 PM (#5580402)
Giannis out with a knee injury. I hate being right sometimes. :(
   1504. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 22, 2017 at 07:03 PM (#5580439)
Patrick Beverly out for the rest of the season to get microfracture surgery. This Clips season could get pretty ugly.
   1505. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 22, 2017 at 07:29 PM (#5580449)
If Griffin gets hurt soon you could definitely see the Clippers deciding to string out his injury and tank it.

Actually, no, come to think of it I can't see Ballmer doing that.

Still, if this is all the better the Clippers are going to be without Chris Paul... probably best to trade Blake and DeAndre away and start over. Those guys will be past their primes by the time the team's ready to even reach the second round again, if they try to rebuild around them.
   1506. Tin Angel Posted: November 22, 2017 at 08:04 PM (#5580460)
Ballmer seems like a stubborn guy that's not going to want to, but yeah, I'd say they might as well start over. And get rid of Doc while they are at it.
   1507. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:11 PM (#5580477)
The Thunder are playing pretty well right here. Some edge to this game. It's fun. They really should be no worse than the 5th best team in the NBA (4th best as long as Kawhi is out).

Damn, they are 7-9? I thought they were probably like 9-7 or something. They aren't going to miss the playoffs, but they need to get their #### together. They do not want to have to play Houston or Golden State in the first round.
   1508. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:34 PM (#5580482)
The Sixers ran out to a 16-0 lead on Portland and were only mildly threatened en route to a 101-81 victory. It's fun to watch them on D when Embiid, Simmons and RoCo are on the floor together.
   1509. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:38 PM (#5580484)
first time the sixers have won consecutive games by 20+ points since 2012.

they're now 10-7 on the season. surprisingly, it's the 2nd time in the process era they've been 3 games over .500 since they also won the first 3 games of the hinkie era.

oh, and they just matched their win total from 2 years ago.
   1510. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:55 PM (#5580489)
How the #### is this team 7-9?
   1511. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:07 PM (#5580492)
Paul George really is so ####### good.
   1512. Tin Angel Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:36 PM (#5580496)
Lakers and Kings are must see TV tonight- Lonzo got a new hairdo.
   1513. puck Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:52 PM (#5580497)
Mbah a Moute was +57 in 25 minutes in the Rockets' 125-95 win over the Nuggets.
   1514. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 22, 2017 at 11:20 PM (#5580505)
I didn't get to watch much of the second half but it seemed to me that Westbrook was absolutely torching Curry in the first half.
   1515. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 22, 2017 at 11:51 PM (#5580508)
Eric Buenning @ericbuenning
This play-by-play recap of OT is wild
pic.twitter.com/Z5b66oCflc
   1516. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 23, 2017 at 09:02 AM (#5580534)
i'm gonna throw out a few things quickly:

1: from the ringer
The highest compliment I can pay the Philadelphia 76ers is that they have gotten to the point where they can easily dispatch a team like the Portland Trail Blazers (which they did on Wednesday, 101-81), and it’s … not that remarkable.


2: according bkref, the sixers are 6th in simple rating system, behind only GSW, HOU, TOR, BOS and OKC.
   1517. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 24, 2017 at 01:36 PM (#5580737)
i think northern iowa has about 6 joe ingles.
   1518. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 24, 2017 at 03:07 PM (#5580779)
and.........####.

Sarah Todd @NBASarah
Ben Simmons has swelling in left elbow will not pay tomorrow against Orlando. #Sixers
   1519. Tin Angel Posted: November 24, 2017 at 08:28 PM (#5580848)
Sounds like Derrick Rose is mulling retirement. It's crazy to think he's only 29.
   1520. Tin Angel Posted: November 25, 2017 at 12:14 AM (#5580881)
The Warriors are beating the Bulls by 38 in the 3rd quarter...without playing Durant and Draymond.
   1521. tshipman Posted: November 25, 2017 at 12:49 AM (#5580884)
Guys, I think the Bulls might not be contenders this year.
   1522. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: November 25, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5580936)
I can't believe that it's 8 years later and (a) this thread is still running and (b) LeBron is still putting up 30 PERs.
   1523. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 25, 2017 at 07:32 PM (#5581002)
orlando has too many former sixers.
   1524. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 25, 2017 at 08:21 PM (#5581009)
Next May 3 will be the 10th anniversary of the OT NBA thread. I was supposed to be working on a presentation today, and instead, I went through all 213 pages of the original OT NBA thread. We're pretty good at this, if I do say so myself, so much fun (and funny) stuff to read. When time permits, I've gotta get back to watching basketball again....
   1525. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 25, 2017 at 08:58 PM (#5581018)
Next May 3 will be the 10th anniversary of the OT NBA thread. I was supposed to be working on a presentation today, and instead, I went through all 213 pages of the original OT NBA thread. We're pretty good at this, if I do say so myself, so much fun (and funny) stuff to read. When time permits, I've gotta get back to watching basketball again....
there's plenty of room on the clippers bandwagon.


sixers are without simmons for the first time this year. they're up 19 on ORL with 8 minutes left, so yeah, it's going well....and now it's only 13. ####.
   1526. JC in DC Posted: November 25, 2017 at 08:59 PM (#5581019)
Dec. 2010: All Landry Fields, all the time.
   1527. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 25, 2017 at 10:25 PM (#5581035)
tj mcconnell put up a half-decent ben simmons impression tonight (15/7/13/3)
sixers are 11-4 since an 0-3 start.
Michael K-B ‏@therealmikekb
The #sixers were building a winning culture while the national media was lamenting their 'losing culture.'
   1528. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 25, 2017 at 11:10 PM (#5581041)
The Paper Clips are back. They're getting shredded by the Kings, 61-47, at halftime. Time to trade Jordan.
   1529. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 26, 2017 at 12:22 PM (#5581106)
Wow, went to bed on that game, and look what happened! ... man, the Kings really stink, much worse than I thought they would. And they're stupid, too. Labissiere only got 13 minutes last night, Jackson with a DNP and has played just 1 minute in four of his last 5 games. I would not have guessed that Dave Joerger would be this dumb, but this is deeply dumb.
   1530. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 26, 2017 at 02:44 PM (#5581142)
bkref now projects the sixers to win 50 games, gives them a 98% chance to make the playoffs and expects them to go 39-25 over the rest of the season.

link
   1531. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: November 26, 2017 at 02:51 PM (#5581148)
Star Wars, Episode IX: Revenge of The Process.
   1532. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 26, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5581182)
College, but did anyone see the Alabama-Minnesota game?

It boggles my mind that with two similarly skilled teams overall, one team could play 3 on 5 and outscore the other team over 10 minutes. How is this possible?

Also, if your whole bench is ejected, how much of a dummy do you have to be to foul out with 11 minutes to go?
   1533. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 26, 2017 at 04:52 PM (#5581183)
Also, if your whole bench is ejected, how much of a dummy do you have to be to foul out with 11 minutes to go?
a player is allowed to stay in the game after he fouls out. his team just gets a technical foul whenever he commits another personal foul
   1534. tshipman Posted: November 26, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5581193)
I took a look at the Thunder to see why they've been so inconsistent so far this year.

From the splits between wins and losses, two things jump out right away.

First of all, the Thunder take 9.4 MORE FTs in their wins. Carmelo alone accounts for 3 of those missing FTAs. Westbrook attempts 1.5 fewer.

Second, the Thunder seriously struggle on defense in their losses. They lose about 10 points on offense, and about 13 points on defense. Further, the majority of that difference comes on 2p shooting. Opponents shoot 53% on 2p shots in Thunder losses, compared to 43% in their wins. Most of that damage appears to be happening in transition, where the Thunder give up 1.17 points per possession--second worst in the league. In their losses, the Thunder allow more defensive rebounds and get burned in transition.

So from looking at the stats, it looks like the Thunder suffer when two things happen: on offense, if Carmelo isn't going to the rim or getting fouls called, and on defense, if they don't get back in transition.
That's why they've been so inconsistent. Explanations about working guys in are not persuasive to me because they have MORE turnovers in their wins than their losses.
   1535. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 26, 2017 at 05:48 PM (#5581204)
It boggles my mind that with two similarly skilled teams overall, one team could play 3 on 5 and outscore the other team over 10 minutes. How is this possible?

It is crazy, but teams aren't used to it. I also think there was a level of "prevent defense" sorta stuff happening there too, though I must admit I didn't watch it.
   1536. sardonic Posted: November 26, 2017 at 06:50 PM (#5581221)
It boggles my mind that with two similarly skilled teams overall, one team could play 3 on 5 and outscore the other team over 10 minutes. How is this possible?

It is crazy, but teams aren't used to it. I also think there was a level of "prevent defense" sorta stuff happening there too, though I must admit I didn't watch it.


I saw the news article too and had a similar reaction. I'd be pretty curious to see some footage -- I have to assume that the team with 5 was basically mercy-ruling the team with 3. Even 5 on 4 I imagine would cease to be a meaningful contest for more than a possession or two.
   1537. JC in DC Posted: November 26, 2017 at 06:54 PM (#5581223)
I saw some of it. The one team (Alabama?) had a small guy go off. He just got hot, and kept attacking and hitting shots (including an en fuego three). On offense, it's confusing to run a 5-3. You think you should score every time, but you get a little unsettled by that pressure and miss wide open shots. Which they did.
   1538. Tin Angel Posted: November 26, 2017 at 07:05 PM (#5581225)
Bulls/Heat ended the first quarter at 13-7. Screenshot of their shooting stats and a disgusted Erik Spoelstra here.
   1539. JC in DC Posted: November 26, 2017 at 07:06 PM (#5581226)
That's ugly. You choose to which that applies.
   1540. GregD Posted: November 26, 2017 at 08:29 PM (#5581244)
a player is allowed to stay in the game after he fouls out. his team just gets a technical foul whenever he commits another personal foul
Not in the NCAA. That's the NBA rule. NCAA rule is you keep losing people until the referees decide there's no chance for victory, if I remember the wording right. You can find theoretical debates about what they would do if you dropped down to one player but had the lead. You could not legally inbound the ball. But you could rebound missed shots and run clock. Because of the impossibility of inbounding, people assume that they would call the game when you dropped to one player. But you could imagine a thread the needle scenario where the officials let it go with one.
   1541. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 26, 2017 at 08:48 PM (#5581248)
there are layers to this
   1542. PJ Martinez Posted: November 26, 2017 at 10:29 PM (#5581279)
Marc Gasol: "If I start venting, that would be counterproductive. But at the end of the day, I'm as competitive as anybody. I hate not playing, that's what I value most. If I'm not out there, I'm not valued. I'm sure they knew that would hurt me the most."
   1543. JJ1986 Posted: November 26, 2017 at 10:33 PM (#5581281)
Watching the game, I figured he was injured. He wasn't just benched; he was benched so Deyonta Davis could play 15 straight minutes.
   1544. tshipman Posted: November 26, 2017 at 11:09 PM (#5581285)
Well, it's not a huge surprise that the Grizzlies are not that good this year.

Which team does Gasol help the most?
I don't think he's a fit for anyone in the West.

Celtics for Baynes ++
Raptors for Ibaka (?) ++
Bucks for Henson? +
   1545. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 26, 2017 at 11:25 PM (#5581290)
I shudder to think of this but... Gasol would fit pretty well with the Warriors... (I know, I know, you can only play 5 guys in crunch time)
   1546. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 26, 2017 at 11:28 PM (#5581292)
I should track down full video of the 3 on 5 but that's maybe the weirdest part to me: how did they successfully inbound the ball??? Probably that's where the prevent defense comes in (which is silly, but I get the unprepared part)

At any rate, I always assumed power plays in basketball would be ridiculous, but this game has me challenging that assumption.
   1547. sardonic Posted: November 27, 2017 at 12:30 AM (#5581300)
I feel like Gasol is one of those players who could help any team. I'd love me some Gasol on Boston, but they almost don't have enough contracts to match, even with Hayward's trade exception (which I'm fuzzy on if it applies). Seriously... Gasol makes $22.6M, and Baynes + Yabusele + Rozier only gets them to $8.5M. They'd have to swing some other deals just to get the contracts.

But yeah, do you swing for the fences and go into next year with Gasol, Horford, Hayward, Brown, Kyrie as your starting 5, with Taytum, Morris, Smart off the bench? I'd take a swing at that with the Sixers 2018 pick.

Of course, the more annoying (to me) answer is Cleveland. Brooklyn pick + Tristan Thompson + Channing Frye works in the Trade Machine. Frye is expiring, Thompson could be cromulent and that Brooklyn pick could jumpstart a rebuild.
   1548. tshipman Posted: November 27, 2017 at 12:41 AM (#5581301)

Of course, the more annoying (to me) answer is Cleveland. Brooklyn pick + Tristan Thompson + Channing Frye works in the Trade Machine. Frye is expiring, Thompson could be cromulent and that Brooklyn pick could jumpstart a rebuild.


I dunno. Does Gasol really help vs. Golden State? I'm not really sure.

That was why I was down on Houston trading Capela for him.
   1549. sardonic Posted: November 27, 2017 at 01:06 AM (#5581302)
I dunno. Does Gasol really help vs. Golden State? I'm not really sure.

That was why I was down on Houston trading Capela for him.


I mean, relative to Tristan Thompson and Channing Frye he definitely does. He'd be what, only the third two-way player on that team? If they're ready to go all-in for this season, I still think it makes sense to pick up a guy like Gasol or DeAndre Jordan. If Lebron leaves next year they're kinda hosed with all the bad money on their books anyway. As a Warriors fan, I'm way more worried about Cleveland going big on one more run than what might happen four years from now when that 2018 high lottery pick might be good and Lebron is either long gone or 37. I'm also factoring in that Brooklyn is currently only the 6th worst team and 8th worst point differential, so there's a good chance you're not even picking in the top 3.

I feel like if the Brooklyn pick continues to likely fall out of the top 5, Cleveland will (and should) make a move with that pick.
   1550. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 27, 2017 at 03:38 AM (#5581307)
From my pre-season prediction:
Insane Trade Prediction:
Memphis trades Marc Gasol to Cleveland for Tristan Thompson, Ante Zizic, Jeff Green, and CLE's #1 pick.
   1551. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 08:30 AM (#5581314)
Which team does Gasol help the most?
the knicks (ntilikina, hernangomez and noah) and the magic (vucevic and picks, i guess. maybe some third team would send something for simmons, fournier, ross or payton).
   1552. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 08:31 AM (#5581315)
also, the lakers (ingram, deng)
   1553. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 09:26 AM (#5581328)
Steve Ilardi‏ @dr_ilardi
Best NBA Lineups (100+ mins):

1. Simmons/Redick/RoCo/Saric/Embiid +29.3 pts/100

2. Harden/Gordon/Ariza/RyanA/Capela +23.6
3. Wall/Beal/Oubre/Porter/Gortat +22.5
4. Curry/Klay/KD/Draymond/Zaza +16.9
5. Brogdon/Middleton/Snell/Giannis/Henson +14.0
   1554. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 09:30 AM (#5581332)
I saw the news article too and had a similar reaction. I'd be pretty curious to see some footage -- I have to assume that the team with 5 was basically mercy-ruling the team with 3. Even 5 on 4 I imagine would cease to be a meaningful contest for more than a possession or two.
here's a question:

if you have the 5, do you slow the game down and make it about execution, or:
do you run the grinnell system to make the game as fast paced and high scoring as possible.

   1555. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 09:37 AM (#5581337)
sixers play cleveland tonight.

cleveland has won 7 straight.
sixers have won 3 straight by 21 (UTA), 20 (POR) and 19 points (ORL).

vegas has it as a pickem
bkref gives the sixers a 73% chance of winning.


this could be fun.
   1556. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 27, 2017 at 09:48 AM (#5581348)
do you run the grinnell system to make the game as fast paced and high scoring as possible.

I'd make it fast paced, I think, unless it's a situations where if you bleed the clock they really can't come back. I feel like one of the big advantages would be fatigue and being able to push the ball.

Like JC said, the one Alabama guy was hitting a lot of low percentage shots. But they weren't *that* bad of shots. I saw a couple of things there, which don't really matter but were interesting. In the highlights it seems like ball screens still work pretty well, and that makes sense because if you can get a big guy defending a small guy then the 5v3 thing is negated. I also saw them doing some weird stuff with defense in a couple of screenshots/clips - like playing a 3-1-1 zone on one play, and just generally it seemed like some of the defenders didn't have a good idea of where to be.

Offensively, the highlights didn't show much but I wouldn't be surprised if playing a man or two up (which pretty much forces the other team to go zone) would do what zone often does, which is bait the other team into taking too many outside shots.
   1557. tshipman Posted: November 27, 2017 at 10:08 AM (#5581363)
the knicks (ntilikina, hernangomez and noah) and the magic (vucevic and picks, i guess. maybe some third team would send something for simmons, fournier, ross or payton).


The Magic makes a LOT of sense to me in terms of fit.

More than Cleveland.
   1558. Sean Forman Posted: November 27, 2017 at 10:49 AM (#5581402)

do you run the grinnell system to make the game as fast paced and high scoring as possible.


I was back on campus last week and got to see them play. I've been watching too much NBA as it looked like low level high school to me as I was watching it.
   1559. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5581455)
sixers play cleveland tonight.

cleveland has won 7 straight.
sixers have won 3 straight by 21 (UTA), 20 (POR) and 19 points (ORL).

vegas has it as a pickem
bkref gives the sixers a 73% chance of winning.


this could be fun.
sixers are now 2 point favorites.
538 has their odds of winning at 57%
   1560. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5581500)
so this is a thing again: 76ers' Jahlil Okafor remains hopeful for quick resolution

allow me to retort:
anyone who wants the sixers to buy out okafor can #### the #### off.

i get it. they're not playing him, he's not happy. wouldn't it be nice if they did the right thing: buy him out and let him go somewhere that wants him.

#### off. anyone who wants okafor knows he's available, knows the price and knows who to call. if someone wants him, they can offer a 2019 2nd round pick because maybe that gets it done.

so why hasn't a trade happened? oh, because noone else in the league gives two shits about okafor's wellbeing, either.

i don't see any thinkpieces about mario hezonja, who's in the same damn position as okafor. i don't see any national media decrying the magic's refusal to let hezonja go somewhere else. i don't see anyone wondering whether hezonja's treatment will impact future free agent decisions.

noone cares that georgious papanugiannis is 5th on the kings depth chart. noone cares that sam dekker disappeared at comiccon two years ago and hasn't been seen since. no. it only happens with the sixers.

#### off. stop riding the sixers dick,
57i66135
   1561. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 27, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5581514)
K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop 39m
Asked about the Niko-Bobby saga, Robin Lopez, on if he’s played with a teammate he didn’t like: “Yeah, Brook Lopez.”
   1562. JC in DC Posted: November 27, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5581544)
The Lopezes are great.

I was wondering earlier today on the odds Embiid gets hurt this year, and it led me to wonder: what was the date of his last injury? Not some nagging thing, but the last thing that put him out? I wonder because when I see him play, and not to jinx him, he looks so big, strong, athletic, I have difficulty imagining him getting hurt significantly again.
   1563. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: November 27, 2017 at 02:53 PM (#5581570)
#### off. stop riding the sixers dick

It would appear the dick of the 76ers is already being ridden pretty hard so I'm not sure how Okafor sympathizers can get on up there...
   1564. PJ Martinez Posted: November 27, 2017 at 02:55 PM (#5581572)
1560: Okafor was a more high-profile prospect (and was taken higher) than any of those other guys. Casual fans don't know who Mario Hezonja is, and they've probably never even heard of Papagiannis.
   1565. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 27, 2017 at 03:00 PM (#5581579)
i don't see any thinkpieces about mario hezonja, who's in the same damn position as okafor.

Hezonja is playing 10 minutes per game and has played in 16 of the Magic's 20 games this season. Okafor has played in 2 games total this season, albeit at a similar minutes level. I don't know exactly what a team's responsibilities should be to a young player who isn't in their plans, but it seems clear at this point 1) the Sixers aren't interested in playing Okafor and 2) no one wants to trade a second round pick for him. Given that, it seems mean to not buy him out and let him seek his fortune. I'd feel differently if he were getting anything resembling regular playing time, but he isn't and it seems pretty clear that won't change going forward.

Are the Sixers committing some sort of crime? Not really. But at this point the only reason I can see not to let Okafor go is an unwillingness to admit they screwed up the whole situation, and that's some GarPax nonsense. Let him try to carve out a role somewhere and use that roster space on a player they'll actually play even a little.
   1566. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 27, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5581624)
The Okafor thing is a bit weird. It's not great for him, I get that, but I do think I agree with stiggles.

Especially with Embiid, I could very much foresee a future where Embiid misses 20 games and then Okafor starts playing more during that time. They gave him enough chances, it doesn't seem like he always gave 100%.
   1567. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 04:05 PM (#5581645)
at this point the only reason I can see not to let Okafor go is an unwillingness to admit they screwed up the whole situation

i can give you a few reasons (in order of probable likelihood):
1: his contract can be salary ballast at the trade deadline (possibly in a deal for mirotic)
2: he could be part of a sign and trade this summer (someone who wants to sign him this offseason might be over the cap)
3: someone could still offer something later on (that elusive 2nd round pick)
4: he might get a chance to play if injuries pile up

use that roster space on a player they'll actually play even a little.
if they need a roster spot, they can cut nik stauskas.

and why isn't anyone talking about how the sixers are ruining any chance nik stauskas has of getting his next contract? he was a top 10 pick and a collegiate star. they should buy him out, too, so he can find a role on someone else's team. won't somebody please think of nik stauskas/
   1568. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 27, 2017 at 04:26 PM (#5581665)
Woj bomb:

Memphis has fired coach David Fizdale, league sources tell ESPN.
   1569. nick swisher hygiene Posted: November 27, 2017 at 04:29 PM (#5581667)
#### off. stop riding the sixers dick

It would appear the dick of the 76ers is already being ridden pretty hard so I'm not sure how Okafor sympathizers can get on up there...


Ridden hard and, uh, put away wet.

#I'llshowmyselfout
   1570. JC in DC Posted: November 27, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5581695)
Wow. I like Fizdale.
   1571. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: November 27, 2017 at 05:12 PM (#5581698)
Wow. I like Fizdale.

I have a hard time picking on him as the problem over there?
   1572. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 05:12 PM (#5581699)

Woj bomb:
:take that for data:
   1573. jmurph Posted: November 27, 2017 at 05:43 PM (#5581714)
Man that is a deeply stupid move by the Grizzlies. They have a bad roster, and are riddled with injuries on top of that. The Parsons deal is probably the worst contract in the league, and is on pace to end up among the worst in league history (seriously, check his numbers, particularly games played, in Memphis if you think I'm engaging in hyperbole).

Pretty sure Fizdale didn't have anything to do with those things.
   1574. JC in DC Posted: November 27, 2017 at 06:01 PM (#5581729)
It's got to be a Gasol thing, right? Is Marc Gasol, at 32, worth jettisoning a solid coach? Or, put another way, what exactly is Memphis building right now? I just realized I have an irrational fondness for Fizdale.
   1575. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: November 27, 2017 at 06:01 PM (#5581731)
Marc Gasol is not getting traded
   1576. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: November 27, 2017 at 06:02 PM (#5581733)
+1 Fizdale seems very good.

I was reflecting on this the other day though -- where are the landing spots? What is the best team going forward with a coach that seems vulnerable?

And -- my god, is the answer to that the Knicks? (Milwaukee maybe -- but I think Kidd is much more entrenched there than this board's assessment. Clippers, but they might be in worse shape than the NYKs going forward? Portland maybe? I doubt Fizdale wants to touch the Suns or Bulls (Kings would be a funny one). Fizdale with the Sixers would be very interesting (esp on D) but if Brown was still there entering this season, I imagine he's in super solid shape now. Pacers might be in play, but it feels more to me like they are playing over their head just to get to 11-9.)

I guess the "obvious" answer is Toronto? Might be a good fit. Is Casey actually in trouble?
   1577. JC in DC Posted: November 27, 2017 at 06:14 PM (#5581740)
I'm not suggesting to trade him. I'm suggesting he be told, "GTFBTW."
   1578. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 27, 2017 at 06:19 PM (#5581743)
Yeah, after the whole getting benched for no apparent reason thing, Gasol had to have demanded, and gotten, Fizdale's head on a plate. God alone knows what's been going on in that locker room.

Gasol probably just accelerated the inevitable, though, as Chris Wallace was going to fire Fizdale sooner or later in the bog standard bad GM's flailing effort to delay his own execution.

I'd be tempted to fire Kidd now and hire Fizdale before someone else does if I were running the Bucks, I think. Not sure I WOULD--and probably there isn't much you can do with Kidd for the time being if Antetokounmpo likes him, even if he apparently doesn't like the assistants, heh--but I'd think about it.
   1579. aberg Posted: November 27, 2017 at 06:24 PM (#5581745)
This program for the G League seems somewhat interesting: Link
   1580. JJ1986 Posted: November 27, 2017 at 06:31 PM (#5581749)
The Nets play at the fastest pace in the league, are missing Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and maybe DeMarre Carroll and are a very bad defense anyway. How many points are the Rockets going to score tonight?
   1581. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 07:12 PM (#5581756)
I'd be tempted to fire Kidd now and hire Fizdale before someone else does if I were running the Bucks, I think. Not sure I WOULD--and probably there isn't much you can do with Kidd for the time being if Antetokounmpo likes him, even if he apparently doesn't like the assistants, heh--but I'd think about it.

agreed. i don't think anyone here would hate it.
   1582. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 09:22 PM (#5581824)
3PAs:
CLE 15/38
PHI 3/27

   1583. Sean Forman Posted: November 27, 2017 at 09:35 PM (#5581828)
Thought the sixers might gack it up tonight. Sadly I was right.
   1584. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 27, 2017 at 09:45 PM (#5581832)
I'd be tempted to fire Kidd now and hire Fizdale before someone else does if I were running the Bucks, I think. Not sure I WOULD--and probably there isn't much you can do with Kidd for the time being if Antetokounmpo likes him, even if he apparently doesn't like the assistants, heh--but I'd think about it.

just chiming in as the resident Bucks fan to say I'd love this move. Giannis seems to be a loyal guy but because he's also so competitive, I'm sure it's killing him that the team is playing so poorly. If I were him I'd be incredibly frustrated because he's playing his ass off and they're still giving up 120 points to the Jazz because their defense is so dumb.
   1585. tshipman Posted: November 27, 2017 at 10:38 PM (#5581840)
Really, too bad for Fizdale, but it's not like he was a difference maker.

Grizzlies had a negative point differential last year and were fortunate in close games. They promptly lost in the first round.

After a fast start, they promptly lost their last 8 games and he publicly picked a fight with their star player. Those are pretty classic grounds for firing in the NBA. You can get away with that if you're Pat Riley or Phil Jackson, maybe even if you're Erik Spoelstra, but not if you're David Fizdale.
   1586. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 27, 2017 at 10:50 PM (#5581842)

After a fast start, they promptly lost their last 8 games and he publicly picked a fight with their star player. Those are pretty classic grounds for firing in the NBA. You can get away with that if you're Pat Riley or Phil Jackson, maybe even if you're Erik Spoelstra, but not if you're David Fizdale.


Well, by the same token, that 'star' player isn't Larry Bird or LeBron James, but -- the lesser Gasol brother.
   1587. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: November 27, 2017 at 11:20 PM (#5581845)
Sarah Todd @NBASarah
Right before the game started Robert Covington found out that a childhood friend of his was tragically shot and killed. #Sixers
   1588. sardonic Posted: November 28, 2017 at 12:42 AM (#5581856)
The Warriors are making this season much more enjoyable for me than I thought it would by taking Strength in Numbers to an almost Spurs-ian extreme. Curry and Durant are sitting tonight, but the team is still putting a product on the court, tied 98-98 with the Kings late in the 4th. Despite missing their top two players, the Ws have played 12 players tonight. Second-year second rounder Pat McCaw is second on the team in minutes with 27 and has 16 points on 8 shots, 5 assists, 3 rebounds, 4 steals and 1 block after being stuck at the end of the bench the past few games. David West is showing off his old man game.

OK it's the Kings, sure. But the team has 30 assists with 5 minutes to play!

I don't know that the extra depth necessarily helps them win a title, and if Kerr keeps this up for another 15 years he'll be Pop. And yeah, if I'd paid big money for seats and was a casual fan, I'd probably be pissed. But four years into this run it's still feeling impressively fresh to me.

It probably does also mean there's more evidence that the Ws are to some extent a system team and I should probably factor that into my individual player ratings.
   1589. tshipman Posted: November 28, 2017 at 01:19 AM (#5581857)
I guess I don't see how a close loss to the worst team in the NBA shows off the Warriors system.
   1590. Tin Angel Posted: November 28, 2017 at 01:29 AM (#5581859)
I guess I don't see how a close loss to the worst team in the NBA shows off the Warriors system.


Not an answer to your question, but it should be noted both Curry and Durant didn't play in their loss to the Kings.
   1591. sardonic Posted: November 28, 2017 at 01:37 AM (#5581860)
Eventually losing that game definitely didn't help my point, but I'll take it with no Curry and Durant and playing their whole roster. Pat McCaw ended the game with the second most minutes and is a lightly played 2nd rounder. Omri Casspi was fourth in minutes with 30 and he's a vet minimum pickup who played on three teams last year. Klay only played 33 minutes; Iguodala 26; Livingston 18.

Going into the game they had upped the % of minutes they give players outside the top 9 in minutes to 19% from 16%. That will only go up. They're 15-6 and still lead the league in point differential.

I mean, in the late stages of the playoffs it's probably still gonna come down to the top 7 or so players, but they're keeping their stars healthy and doing something different. Not what I necessarily would have expected, but it's a pleasant surprise that they've found a fresh angle after three Finals runs.
   1592. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: November 28, 2017 at 08:32 AM (#5581873)
Really, too bad for Fizdale, but it's not like he was a difference maker.

Yeah, I agree. I definitely am not firing a guy midseason to try and hire him. I'm sure he'll get another shot, and maybe he'll be ok.

My thoughts on Kidd are hard to keep straight. When he was first hired, he seemed terrible. But by the end of the year, it was obvious he was doing something right. That seemed to transition over to Milwaukee initially, but the team isn't really progressing the way they seem like they should. Also, I'm not sure we can't give him zero credit for Giannis. It's also worth remembering the power play move he tried to force in BKN that had him move after one year; at the time, everyone said he had an in with MIL's owner and IIRC he pre-dates the GM, so I bet he's probably relatively safe there.
   1593. JC in DC Posted: November 28, 2017 at 09:20 AM (#5581885)
I'm with tshipman in that I don't see what we learned last night that we didn't already know: the Ws are the most talented team in the NBA. They were w/o their two best players, sure, but they won a title without one of those best players who they then added to their depth. So, they rolled out Klay Thompson, Draymond, Iguodala, Livingston, and a deeper roster than Sacramento and lost at home, but made it competitive. Plus, they have a winning culture, which you just don't pee away because guys are out for a night. Yeah, they're really, really good. We knew that, I think.
   1594. jmurph Posted: November 28, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5581887)
Also, I'm not sure we can't give him zero credit for Giannis.

I think he should get a ton of credit for this- he essentially made him the point guard, which was not at all an obvious thing to do. But while I don't think he is (or should be) on the hot seat, they should probably be better than they are.
   1595. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: November 28, 2017 at 10:00 AM (#5581896)
I agree with the Fizdale and Kidd comments.

I think Kidd is safe, at least through the year, and probably gets the start of next year too even if they miss the playoffs. I think the ridiculous out of control defense they play is beyond just Kidd, it seems like they've really bought into that organizationally. I don't think that will end well.

Fizdale seems solid but not a game changer. Guys like that get fired, especially if they have a spat with one of the faces of the most important run of basketball in team history. Didn't Vogel get fired a while back at Indiana? Sometimes you're a victim of your own success. Memphis is at the end of their success cycle and will have to adjust their expectations to this.
   1596. Manny Coon Posted: November 28, 2017 at 11:33 AM (#5581932)
Hard to believe the Doc and Austin nonsense has been allowed to go on as long as it has. Not only was Austin given a stupid contract by his father a few years ago, now he's being given 33 minutes a game despite being a replacement level player who hasn't improved and then on top of that he injures Griffin last night. Now that Griffin is hurt, he will likely become the team leader in minutes (and one of their top two players in FGA), he was already playing more minutes than DeAndre Jordan. And conveniently all these minutes and touches are coming in a possible contract year (because not only did Austin need to be paid $12 million a year, he needed a player option). It's such a gross and obvious conflict of interest.
   1597. JC in DC Posted: November 28, 2017 at 12:37 PM (#5581980)
The options are not either Fizdale is Reilly or Pop or he's expendable. Fizdale seems to be at least an above average coach. Memphis competes when healthy, he has the respect of players, and he's had good coaching training. You don't just discard that if unnecessary. As I said above, why not just tell Gasol to STFU and get back to work? Gasol is not, as someone said above, Bird or James. He's a very good center edging towards the end of his career. I think you get them both to back off and keep the eye on getting healthy and fighting for the bottom rung of the playoffs. This seems desperate and rash and unnecessary.
   1598. JC in DC Posted: November 28, 2017 at 12:40 PM (#5581986)
[1596] Yeah, the angle in the replays make it look like Rivers essentially launched himself into Griffin's knee. Not a good look!
   1599. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 28, 2017 at 01:21 PM (#5582036)
Hard to believe the Doc and Austin nonsense has been allowed to go on as long as it has.
Doc's ring has given him all sorts of cachet. Every passign game, it seems everything Chris Paul said about Clipper nepotism is more and more true.
   1600. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 28, 2017 at 01:34 PM (#5582052)
I hope Doc sends KG a real nice gift every Christmas.

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