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Wednesday, October 11, 2017

OT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, some of whom still care about baseball playoffs, but all of whom agree the Celtics gave up too much for Irving.

Here’s the thread’s top 50 players ranking.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 11, 2017 at 11:21 AM | 1392 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   201. Booey Posted: October 17, 2017 at 12:31 PM (#5555823)
MHS #198 -


GSW over LAC
HOU over SAS
MIN over DEN
HOU over UTA

GSW over OKC
MIN over HOU


I don't know; seems kinda unfair to give OKC a first round bye while making Houston beat 2 teams just to advance. No wonder they're exhausted in their 2nd round match up with the Wolves... ;-)
   202. Willard Baseball Posted: October 17, 2017 at 01:23 PM (#5555888)
East:

Cleveland
Boston
Washington
Charlotte
Toronto
Milwaukee
Miami
Philly
---------
Detroit
Orlando
Brooklyn
Knicks
Indiana
Atlanta
Chicago (The bottom of the East is absolutely terrible)

Golden State
OKC
Houston
San Antonio
Minnesota
Memphis
Denver
Portland
----------
Clippers
Utah
New Orleans
Lakers
Phoenix
Dallas
Sacramento

Finals: Cleveland over OKC
MVP: Westbrook
COY: Steve Clifford
ROY: Lonzo

   203. aberg Posted: October 17, 2017 at 01:59 PM (#5555935)
East:
1. Cleveland
2. Boston
3. Washington
4. Toronto
5. Milwaukee
6. Charlotte
7. Miami
8. Detroit
9. Indiana
10. Philadelphia
11. Orlando
12. New York
13. Atlanta
14. Brooklyn
15. Chicago

CLE def DET
BOS def MIA
WAS def CHA
MIL def TOR

CLE def MIL
BOS def WAS

CLE def BOS

West:
1. GS
2. Houston
3. SA
4. OKC
5. LAC
6. Minnesota
7. Denver
8. Portland
9. Utah (I have PDX and UTA tied in wins, no method to the tie-breaker)
10. New Orleans
11. Memphis
12. Dallas
13. LAL
14. Sacramento
15. Phoenix

GS def POR
HOU def DEN
SA def MIN
OKC def LAC

GS def OKC
SA def HOU

GS def SA

GS def CLE

MVP- Leonard
COY- Rivers
ROY- Simmons
   204. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 17, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5555947)
All right, let's do this:

Eastern Conference:
1. BOS
2. CLE
3. WAS
4. TOR
5. PHI
6. MIL
7. CHA
8. MIA
9. DET
10. ORL
11. IND
12. ATL
13. BRK
14. NYK
15. CHI

Eastern Playoffs:
BOS over MIA
CLE over CHA
MIL over WAS
PHI over TOR

BOS over PHI
CLE over MIL

BOS over CLE
(Homer pick for sure, but also a depth pick.)

Western Conference:
1. GSW
2. HOU
3. SAS
4. OKC
5. MIN
6. LAC
7. POR
8. UTA
9. DEN
10. MEM
11. DAL
12. SAC
12. NOP
14. LAL
15. PHX

Western Playoffs:
GSW over UTA
HOU over POR
SAS over LAC
MIN over OKC

GSW over MIN
HOU over SAS

GSW over HOU

Finals:
GSW over BOS

MVP: That LeBron fella.
CoY: Brad Stevens
RoY: Ben Simmons
   205. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 17, 2017 at 02:33 PM (#5556003)
Eastern Conference:
1. WAS
2. CLE
3. BOS
4. TOR
5. MIL
6. CHA
7. MIA
8. DET
9. ORL
10. PHI
11. IND
12. BRK
13. NYK
14. IND
15. CHI

Eastern Playoffs:
WAS over TOR
CLE over MIA
BOS over CHA
MIL over TOR

WAS over MIL
CLE over BOS

CLE over WAS


Western Conference:
1. GSW
2. HOU
3. OKC
4. SAS
5. MIN
6. DEN
7. LAC
8. POR
9. SLC
10. DAL
11. MEM
12. NOP
12. SAC
14. LAL
15. PHX

Western Playoffs:
GSW over POR
HOU over LAC
DEN over OKC
MIN over SAS

GSW over MIN
HOU over DEN

GSW over HOU

Finals:
GSW over CLE

MVP: Giannis
CoY: Thibs
RoY: Ben Simmons

1. I'd take the field over the Cavs in the East, and I do think Rose/Wade are bad fits. But I can't pick a single one of them to actually beat LeBron. However, I think the Cavs do lose before the Finals (maybe to the Bucks if the bracket breaks that way), and LeBron leaves Cleveland.
2. The bottom of the East is such garbage, it upsets me.
3. Sixers don't make the playoffs. Embiid misses too much time, and the rest of the team isn't good enough yet to make a playoff push.
4. I think Orlando will look like a breakout team, but really, they're not and they're just somehow the lucky of the garbage to float to the top.
5. OKC is a better regular season team than playoff team. Denver takes a huge step forward, and is just a terrible matchup for them in the first round and Jokic gets the full nat'l attention he deserves.
6. I think the Spurs are old in the wrong spots, and I think that first round series against SAS will be one for the ages (as far as first rounds go between teams that don't win the title).
7. COY is close between Thibs and Malone.
8. MVP vote is split so much it ends up on Giannis, who will be even better this year.
9. Warriors go 16-1 in the playoffs again, their loss in the 2nd round to the TWolves.
10. It's a super fun year even with all the haves and have nots.
   206. cmd600 Posted: October 17, 2017 at 02:48 PM (#5556035)
Kyrie has a career year away from LeBron and wins or nearly wins the scoring title, Boston has a good year and gets the 1 seed


I like beating Boston in general, but man am I going to enjoy Celtics fans taking a ride on the Irving rollercoaster. Everything that has been said about Irving has been said over and over by Cavs fans each offseason. This is the year that he . . . [fill in anything you want to see out a star].
   207. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: October 17, 2017 at 02:53 PM (#5556044)


I like beating Boston in general, but man am I going to enjoy Celtics fans taking a ride on the Irving rollercoaster. Everything that has been said about Irving has been said over and over by Cavs fans each offseason. This is the year that he . . . [fill in anything you want to see out a star].


To be fair, Kyrie actually did - by advanced metrics - turn into a good player last year. Prior to that he was a scorer, but not really that good.
   208. cmd600 Posted: October 17, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5556046)
The Cavs, to me, sit at the razor's edge: they can tip over into a first round exit at any moment, and no one is willing to accept it as a possibility.

I say 49 wins and a first round exit.


The Lakers first round exists came as 45, 42, and 45 win seven seeds. 49 wins will not be worse than the three seed. The Cavs may be nearing a tipping point. The Cavs will not be losing in the first round of this Eastern conference as long as Lebron is healthy.
   209. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: October 17, 2017 at 02:57 PM (#5556048)
Jordan Bell has impressed in summer league, and the bench remains chock full of vets ready to go.


Jordan Bell, the guy so intriguing that BBTF drafted him three times.
   210. Tin Angel Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:01 PM (#5556056)
Hope we see a lot of slam dunks this year!
   211. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:02 PM (#5556058)
To be fair, Kyrie actually did - by advanced metrics - turn into a good player last year. Prior to that he was a scorer, but not really that good.

I cannot decide what I think Kyrie is going to do over the next couple years. On the one hand, all of the criticism of him and his weaknesses is quite founded. On the other hand, he's 25, still improving, and about to play out from under LeBron's shadow for the coach that helped IT turn into an all-NBA player. I think he's going to get better, but that could mean scoring a bit more at the same efficiency because he's taking more 3s better, or it could mean levels up better. Both seem like they're in play.
   212. cmd600 Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:04 PM (#5556061)
turn into a good player last year.


Sure, good player. 39th in the league in RPM, ninth among PGs. 43rd in BPM, 16th among guards. Yes, he is a good player. There are quite a few good players that we aren't pretending are MVP candidates.
   213. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:22 PM (#5556084)
Hope we see a lot of slam dunks this year!

Keep your fingers crossed.
   214. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5556091)
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
Embiid just called his minutes restriction “fucking bullshit”
11:31 AM - Oct 17, 2017
   215. Booey Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:36 PM (#5556101)
I think I'm less interested in the upcoming season than I've ever been in almost 30 years of fandom, but my interest in the NBA THREAD is still mostly intact (without it I'd have to actually do my job at work, and that's just unacceptable), so what the hell:

WEST

1. GSW 65-17
2. SAS 57-25*
3. HOU 56-26
4. OKC 50-32
5. MIN 46-36
6. LAC 45-37
7. DEN 44-38
8. UTA 42-40
-
9. POR
10. NOP
11. MEM
12. LAL
13. SAC
14. DAL
15. PHX

EAST

1. BOS 52-30
2. CLE 51-31
3. TOR 49-33
4. WAS 48-34
5. MIL 46-36
6. CHA 43-39
7. MIA 42-40
8. PHI 40-42
-
9. DET
10. ORL
11. NYK
12. IND
13. BKN
14. ATL
15. CHI

GSW over UTA 4-0
SAS over DEN 4-3
HOU over LAC 4-1
MIN over OKC 4-2
----------------
BOS over PHI 4-2
CLE over MIA 4-1
TOR over CHA 4-2
WAS over MIL 4-3

GSW over MIN 4-1
HOU over SAS 4-2
----------------
WAS over BOS 4-3
CLE over TOR 4-2

GSW over HOU 4-2
----------------
CLE over WAS 4-2

GSW over CLE yet again (4-1)

MVP - Kawhi
COY - Pop
DPOY - Gobert
ROY - Simmons

* I'll believe the theoretically inevitable Spurs demise when I see it. At least during the regular season; I do think they're going to struggle in the playoffs

   216. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:51 PM (#5556114)
To be fair, Kyrie actually did - by advanced metrics - turn into a good player last year.

Serious question, which ones?
   217. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:00 PM (#5556122)
Embiid's minutes restriction is apparently under 20 minutes.

I'm getting a pretty big Greg Oden vibe here. Maybe it's me.
   218. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5556126)
Sorry, catching up -- I meant to have Charlotte 7th and Philly down at 12th, actually. I originally had Charlotte 9th, thought better of it because the rest of the East is so bad, and then left them 9th and forgot Philly altogether (let's see... yep, that's 15 teams, let's move on!)

Just to be clear when, in nine months, someone goes through to confirm that I successfully defended my Worst BBTF Preseason Predictions championship belt, I'll re-paste the whole thing here with the East done right:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

1. Boston
2. Cleveland
3. Toronto
4. Washington
5. Milwaukee
6. Miami
7. Charlotte
8. Orlando

9. Detroit
10. Brooklyn
11. Atlanta
12. Philadelphia
13. Indiana
14. New York
15. Chicago


WESTERN CONFERENCE

1. Golden State
2. Houston
3. San Antonio
4. Oklahoma City
5. Denver
6. Clippers
7. Minnesota
8. Memphis

9. Utah
10. Portland
11. Sacramento
12. Lakers
13. New Orleans
14. Dallas
15. Phoenix

FIRST ROUND
(1) Boston over (8) Orlando, 4-1
(2) Cleveland over (7) Charlotte, 4-2
(3) Toronto over (6) Miami, 4-3
(4) Washington over (5) Milwaukee, 4-2

(1) Golden State over (8) Memphis, 4-0
(2) Houston over (7) Minnesota, 4-2
(3) San Antonio over (6) Clippers, 4-2
(5) Denver over (4) Oklahoma City, 4-3


SECOND ROUND
(1) Boston over (4) Washington, 4-2
(2) Cleveland over (3) Toronto, 4-2

(1) Golden State over (5) Denver, 4-0
(2) Houston over (3) San Antonio, 4-2


CONFERENCE FINALS
(1) Boston over (2) Cleveland, 4-2
(1) Golden State over (2) Houston, 4-1


FINALS
Golden State over Boston, 4-0


MVP: Kevin Durant
RoY: Dennis Smith
CoY: Brad Stevens
DPoY: Rudy Gobert
   219. jmurph Posted: October 17, 2017 at 04:12 PM (#5556142)
Embiid's minutes restriction is apparently under 20 minutes.

I read that as just to start the season, which seems fair given that he has played 30 competitive (albeit pre-season) minutes in like 9 months.

   220. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:27 PM (#5556243)
Jae Crowder has only had one year where he's been a plus shooter


That's true to a point, but when talking specifically about catch-and-shoot threes (as I think we are in discussing him as a floor spacer around LeBron), his last two years have both been solid, at 43% and 37% respectively on catch-and-shoot threes (again, per stats.nba.com). If you go back to the season before that, we're talking about a season he started as a deep-bench backup to Shawn Marion. I'm not the world's greatest statistician, and I'd hardly claim it's conclusive, but I think the data really do suggest the man has made himself a good spot-up shooter.

That said, at least for tonight, I hope you're the one who's right here, not me.
   221. jmurph Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:28 PM (#5556244)
I've been thinking so much about the Celtics that I kind of forgot the late game was Warriors-Rockets. I'm super excited to get no sleep tonight!
   222. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:33 PM (#5556249)
EASTERN CONFERENCE

1. Boston
2. Cleveland
3. Washington
4. Milwaukee
5. Miami
6. Toronto
7. Charlotte
8. Philadelphia

9. Detroit
10. Brooklyn
11. Orlando
12. Atlanta
13. Indiana
14. New York
15. Chicago


WESTERN CONFERENCE

1. Golden State
2. Houston
3. San Antonio
4. Oklahoma City
5. Denver
6. Clippers
7. Minnesota
8. Utah

9. Memphis
10. Portland
11. New Orleans
12. Dallas
13. Lakers
14. Sacramento
15. Phoenix

FIRST ROUND
(1) Boston over (8) Philadelphia, 4-2
(2) Cleveland over (7) Charlotte, 4-0
(3) Washington over (6) Toronto, 4-1
(5) Miami over (4) Milwaukee, 4-3

(1) Golden State over (8) Memphis, 4-0
(2) Houston over (7) Minnesota, 4-1
(3) San Antonio over (6) Clippers, 4-0
(4) Oklahoma City over (5) Denver, 4-2


SECOND ROUND
(1) Boston over (5) Miami, 4-1
(2) Cleveland over (3) Washington, 4-2

(1) Golden State over (4) Oklahoma City, 4-0
(3) San Antonio over (2) Houston, 4-3


CONFERENCE FINALS
(2) Cleveland over (1) Boston, 4-2
(1) Golden State over (3) San Antonio, 4-1


FINALS
Golden State over Cleveland, 4-1


MVP: Kevin Durant
RoY: Dennis Smith
CoY: Greg Popovich
DPoY: Kawhi Leonard

Insane Trade Prediction:
Memphis trades Marc Gasol to Cleveland for Tristan Thompson, Ante Zizic, Jeff Green, and CLE's #1 pick.
   223. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:36 PM (#5556251)
Insane Trade Prediction:
Memphis trades Marc Gasol to Cleveland for Tristan Thompson, Ante Zizic, Jeff Green, and CLE's #1 pick.


I kinda really like this trade, and think if IT is healthy that's a decent team to try and beat GSW.
   224. Booey Posted: October 17, 2017 at 05:47 PM (#5556259)
Hombre -

1. Golden State
2. Houston
3. San Antonio
4. Oklahoma City
5. Denver
6. Clippers
7. Minnesota
8. Utah

(1) Golden State over (8) Memphis, 4-0
(2) Houston over (7) Minnesota, 4-1
(3) San Antonio over (6) Clippers, 4-0
(4) Oklahoma City over (5) Denver, 4-2


I know the Warriors embarrassed the Jazz in the postseason last year and all, but I still doubt Utah will just forfeit their first round series...

(but yeah, they might as well)
   225. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: October 17, 2017 at 06:38 PM (#5556298)
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
Sources: Bulls forwards Bobby Portis and Nikola Mirotic were involved in serious altercation in practice today, leaving Mirotic hospitalized and out indefinitely. Story coming.
   226. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 17, 2017 at 06:40 PM (#5556300)
What the everliving ####
   227. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: October 17, 2017 at 06:40 PM (#5556301)
Yikes. That is not a headline I wanted to see, regardless of the names.
   228. SteveF Posted: October 17, 2017 at 06:42 PM (#5556302)
Sources: Bulls forwards Bobby Portis and Nikola Mirotic were involved in serious altercation in practice today, leaving Mirotic hospitalized and out indefinitely. Story coming.

This could take tanking to the next level. Even Philly never went that far.
   229. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: October 17, 2017 at 06:42 PM (#5556303)
Mirotic was taken to the hospital Tuesday after their shoving altercation during practice ended with an alleged cheap shot from Portis to Mirotic’s face, league sources told The Vertical. Mirotic is undergoing tests, but is expected to be out for the foreseeable future, league sources said.

source
   230. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 17, 2017 at 06:56 PM (#5556307)
In practice scuffle with Bobby Portis in Bulls practice, Nikola Mirotic suffered a fractured bone in his face, league source tells ESPN.


From woj. Portis might be looking at a release with no pay.
   231. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 17, 2017 at 07:01 PM (#5556309)
Portis is not nearly a good enough player to get away with that kind of stuff, if anyone is. Glad (relatively speaking) that it's a broken face for Mirotic, assuming he heals without complications, as that's the least bad way to end up out indefinitely after a fistfight. The Bulls of all teams sure didn't need this.
   232. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 17, 2017 at 07:03 PM (#5556311)
Mirotic is home after going to hospital. He has 2 broken bones in his face and was evaluated for concussion, per source. Punched by Portis.


Kc johnson
   233. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 07:21 PM (#5556318)
I can't say my opinion is as informed as many people here but here are my thoughts about the season:

Barring an injury to KD, Draymond, or both Curry and Thompson, the Warriors are going to breeze to the title. Cleveland will have a regular season in which other teams in the East will look more capable of dethroning them than they really are as I fully expect the Cavaliers to breeze to the NBA finals. They won't be able to really challenge the Warriors barring a huge upgrade during the season Kawhi Leonard will win the MVP if he's healthy enough, if not him, Harden will.

Boston will be worse than last year. Irving is not the guy to build a serious contender around.
   234. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 17, 2017 at 07:22 PM (#5556319)
Bulls says surgery likely required for Mirotic after altercation with Portis. Mirotic sustained suffered a concussion & maxillary fractures.
   235. madvillain Posted: October 17, 2017 at 07:23 PM (#5556322)
Bobby Portis needs to be cut. NOW.
   236. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: October 17, 2017 at 07:59 PM (#5556349)
Serious question, which ones [show Kyrie to be a good player]?

The ones on 82games.com (which I still think have value) showed him to clearly be pretty good, and giving more offensively than giving away defensively.

His RPM and BPM, as noted above, have him clearly above average. In that 30-50 range (trusting the other poster's info here, but I remember his RPM being pretty strong last year).

He's shown an ability to score at a pretty elite efficiency in the playoffs on high usage, which I think is pretty much the single most valuable skill any player can have - if you were going to build a team, your first or second pick has to be a guy that can do that. I think if anything that means regular season stats underrate him - though I do ultimately have him around that 30-40 range (I think this is where I put him).
   237. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:04 PM (#5556353)
Portis is not nearly a good enough player to get away with that kind of stuff, if anyone is.
Bulls says surgery likely required for Mirotic after altercation with Portis. Mirotic sustained suffered a concussion & maxillary fractures.
Nobody's good enough to get away with that kind of stuff. Portis might not even be good enough to stay out of friggin' jail.
   238. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:12 PM (#5556362)
Yeah, I was a touch flip because I underestimated the extent of the injury. There's no room for that from anyone, full stop.
   239. SteveF Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5556365)
48 wins for the celtics looking optimistic now. (Hayward just broke his leg.)
   240. JJ1986 Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5556367)
Holy ####, ouch.
   241. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:17 PM (#5556368)
Gordon Hayward just broke his leg.
   242. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:19 PM (#5556373)
Holy crap. Hayward. The Mormon God is a vengeful god.
   243. sardonic Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:20 PM (#5556376)
That was gruesome, the replay is not one you want to see if you haven't.
   244. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:25 PM (#5556385)
Quite genuinely my least favorite thing about sports broadcasts these days is how they will show multiple replays of serious injuries, complete with different angles and slow mo. I have no stomach for it, don't want to see any of it, and don't understand who does.
   245. smileyy Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:27 PM (#5556388)
oh no :(
   246. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:28 PM (#5556391)
I'm with you, FTO. I saw Joe Theismann, I don't need to see the sequels. I can't imagine what Hayward's feeling after going through all that in the off-season, getting that contract, coming in with expectations and then... snap. Ugh.

Now we're going to see if Danny Ainge really is a genius, because those two young forwards are gonna have to play a lot, and play big time.
   247. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:29 PM (#5556392)
I'm watching Yankees but my Cavs fan friend messaged me about it. I was rooting against Hayward but never to get injured. He did not deserve that, especially since it sounds like a really nasty break.

EDIT: saw the replay. That is even worse than I imagined. It looks like they were trying something similar to the Ingles-Hayward oop play last year that got so many easy buckets.
   248. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:36 PM (#5556395)
As a Celtics fan, what an exceeding weird feeling right now. Just kinda numb.
   249. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:36 PM (#5556396)
Without Hayward, how likely is it that the Celtics miss the playoffs?
   250. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:39 PM (#5556400)
Without Hayward, how likely is it that the Celtics miss the playoffs?


Have you seen the East? I'd say it's still exceedingly likely, with a nonzero possibility now that they won't.
   251. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:41 PM (#5556401)
That was awful. (Miss you guys, hope to catch up soon on content)

The east is bad, they still make the playoffs
   252. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:46 PM (#5556406)
So should we all just take a punt and redo our picks now?

e: That was... gruesome. If that's not a career ending injury it's probably a career altering one. That's horrible.
   253. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 17, 2017 at 08:55 PM (#5556413)
e: That was... gruesome. If that's not a career ending injury it's probably a career altering one. That's horrible.


Knowing nothing about the injury at this point except "broken ankle" - the best case here is, like, Paul George?
   254. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:00 PM (#5556416)
Yeah, I kinda watched the replay but looked away a bit at the bad bits, and didn't watch the slow-mo.

I think George is a good best-case, until we know more details (or rather, someone with more medical knowledge analyzes the additional details). Chance he turns into a sieve on defense is probably pretty high. That's just so disappointing.
   255. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:04 PM (#5556420)
Really sad. Boston understandably looks like trash now.
   256. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:12 PM (#5556432)
Ugh. Just awful.
   257. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:12 PM (#5556434)
The East is bad and I do expect that the Celtics will make the playoffs. That said, they look like a team that's really going to have a hard time scoring now. Irving is the best bad shot maker in the world but that's not a great way to build an offense.
   258. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:15 PM (#5556441)
his knee was facing mexico, but his ankle was turned towards mecca.

the best case is a dislocation without a fracture. it would be about a 6-week recovery.
   259. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:22 PM (#5556459)
It's officially fractured.

My limited understanding is that if it's just bone, he'd have a chance to be the roughly the same guy again, albeit next season. If there was a ligament too, that's much less likely.
   260. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:23 PM (#5556462)
All depends on the extent of soft tissue damage. Sometimes that injury is just a season-ender, sometimes it's a career ender.
   261. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:25 PM (#5556469)
I'm not a doctor but having seen a replay I wish I could un-see, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if that injury is only season-ending, that would be wonderful. It looks... worse than that.
   262. Booey Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:27 PM (#5556476)
Oh man. Sympathies to Celtics fans and especially to Hayward himself. That was just terrible.
   263. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:36 PM (#5556488)
That was gruesome, the replay is not one you want to see if you haven't.

This. It is appalling. That poor, poor guy.
   264. Famous Original Joe C Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:42 PM (#5556495)
Can only imagine what Brad Stevens is thinking.
   265. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:43 PM (#5556498)
Rose showing a nice ability to get to the basket.
   266. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:44 PM (#5556501)
I mean, you can hear it go in the video.
   267. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:47 PM (#5556507)
Celtics playing well in the third quarter
   268. RJ in TO Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:48 PM (#5556508)
Can only imagine what Brad Stevens is thinking.
Probably some variation on "Oh god, I think I'm going to vomit."
   269. sardonic Posted: October 17, 2017 at 09:56 PM (#5556518)
I always liked Hayward as a sneaky good player, really hope he comes back. I think Boston will still be a playoff team in the East, and it's all about how much Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum develop this year. If they are good enough to make Boston a feisty first round team, Hayward hopefully returning next year along with the Lakers pick and Boston still could be a favorite in the East next season.

As someone who has long awaited another contender to emerge in the East, it's a bummer to see Boston get torpedoed like this. I had Hayward ranked #16 in the BTF NBA Rank.
   270. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:08 PM (#5556531)
I mean... it's going to take a while to digest, but that injury is agonizing for Gordon Hayward but also devastating to the Celtics. It's going to be hard to compete for a title if they have to carry $30 million a year in dead money on their cap for the next five years. It just sucks real, real bad all around.
   271. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:10 PM (#5556534)
The Cavaliers have a lot of guys who could potentially be in their rotation and I think it is going to take some time to figure out what they are going to want to do with them.
   272. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:17 PM (#5556542)
Cavaliers being really sloppy with the ball.
   273. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:23 PM (#5556551)
As someone who has long awaited another contender to emerge in the East, it's a bummer to see Boston get torpedoed like this. I had Hayward ranked #16 in the BTF NBA Rank.

Does someone have the link for that?
   274. sardonic Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:23 PM (#5556553)
The Cavaliers have a lot of guys who could potentially be in their rotation and I think it is going to take some time to figure out what they are going to want to do with them.


Yeah, but how many of them are actually good? I think they definitely got worse swapping Kyrie for IT4 even if IT4 was healthy. Tristan Thompson is cromulent and Jae Crowder is a nice piece but I don't particularly like guys like Wade, Rose, Korver, Shumpert, JR Smith, Jeff Green... yuck.
   275. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:25 PM (#5556555)
Man, if you got points for looking like an NBA player, Jeff Green would get a lot of points.
   276. sardonic Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:27 PM (#5556557)
BTF NBA Rank. I never got a chance to add the last ballot. Hayward was collectively ranked #18, with a high of 16 (me) and a low of 27. He was in a clear tier of players with John Wall (16), Paul Goerge (17) and Mike Conley (19). He was also the #5 player in the East, behind Lebron (1), Giannis (11) Kyle Lowry (15) and John Wall (16).
   277. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:27 PM (#5556558)
Lebron's still pretty good.
   278. sardonic Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:29 PM (#5556560)
Crunch time lineup of Lebron, Love, Crowder, Rose and Wade for Cleveland. Wade just got shredded on D by Jayson Tatum.
   279. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:30 PM (#5556561)
I'm not sure exactly how good Wade, Korver, JR, and maybe even Rose are. I mean, they may all be below average but all of them are totally still rotation players. I feel like their depth is a bit better this year than last year where Richard Jefferson I #### you not was one of the best rotation players that Cleveland had.

This is terrible for Boston - the Hayward injury - but Tatum and Brown are going to get a lot, lot more run. We should have a pretty good idea at the end of this year if Brown is gonna be more than a backup defensive focused wing.
   280. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:39 PM (#5556579)
Man, if you got points for looking like an NBA player, Jeff Green would get a lot of points.

$71million points, give or take.
   281. sardonic Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:58 PM (#5556602)
Promising games from Brown (11-23, 25 points, 6 reb, 3 stl) and Tatum (5-11, 14 points, 10 reb, 3 ast).
   282. sardonic Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:00 PM (#5556610)
Kevin Pelton:

As ESPN's Bobby Marks noted in the aftermath of Hayward's injury, if Hayward is ruled out for the season Boston will be eligible to apply for a disabled player exception worth $8.4 million that can be used to sign a free agent to a one-year contract or acquire a player in the final year of his contract via trade or waivers.
   283. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:02 PM (#5556612)
The Cavaliers are in a weird spot. They have LeBron which means that they are basically a lock to make it to the Finals as long as he doesn't get hurt. It's possible he could get hurt but it may be just as likely that he is a cyborg.

They have Brooklyn's pick and potentially interesting pieces in Love and Isaiah Thomas but they also don't know that LeBron's going to be on this team next year.

I think what the Cavaliers are hoping is that enough role players emerge from the plethora of options on their team already, and that they can somehow use their pick and trade pieces to add another impact player. Which might not matter because the Warriors are too good anyway.

A key to the season might be Rose. He looked explosive offensively, and if he can be an asset defensively, he could be someone who makes Curry work. Of course, he'll likely get hurt.

   284. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:02 PM (#5556613)
As ESPN's Bobby Marks noted in the aftermath of Hayward's injury, if Hayward is ruled out for the season Boston will be eligible to apply for a disabled player exception worth $8.4 million that can be used to sign a free agent to a one-year contract or acquire a player in the final year of his contract via trade or waivers.


I hear Bobby Portis might soon be available.
   285. PJ Martinez Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:08 PM (#5556621)
Per Micah Adams on Twitter: "With LeBron, Wade and Rose on the floor together.... Cavs: 0.90 pts/play, more TO (8) than assists (7), shot 41 percent and outscored by 5."
   286. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:38 PM (#5556686)
The Warriors just scored 35 points in the first quarter with only 5 combined from Durant and Curry.
   287. cmd600 Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:42 PM (#5556692)
Per Micah Adams on Twitter: "With LeBron, Wade and Rose on the floor together.... Cavs: 0.90 pts/play, more TO (8) than assists (7), shot 41 percent and outscored by 5."


This seems ... entirely expected. The Cavs are going to need to turn halftime leads into blowouts rather than tight games to experiment with the rotation some. If Calderon is not completely toast, he might be more useful shooting open corner threes than watching Rose just do what Irving did last year less effectively.

Not getting Love any more involved in the offense tonight than last year is a bit of a headscratcher.
   288. sardonic Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:46 PM (#5556699)
I didn't notice this before, but those new ref uniforms look weird.
   289. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:53 PM (#5556710)
The problem with Calderon is that he's going to get torched defensively. On a team with defensive issues, that's a big problem.
   290. tshipman Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:55 PM (#5556711)
The Cavaliers are in a weird spot. They have LeBron which means that they are basically a lock to make it to the Finals as long as he doesn't get hurt. It's possible he could get hurt but it may be just as likely that he is a cyborg.


The Cavs just played a game where LeBron went for 29/16/9, played 41 minutes and just held on to win by 3 at home. To me, that is slightly concerning.

If Calderon is not completely toast


Calderon is the toastiest player I've ever seen in the NBA on defense.
   291. tshipman Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:15 AM (#5556715)
Is Nick Young like the Splash Uncle? Splash Nephew? Splash Swaggy? What's the right filial relationship?
   292. cmd600 Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:39 AM (#5556761)
The Cavs just played a game where LeBron went for 29/16/9, played 41 minutes and just held on to win by 3 at home. To me, that is slightly concerning.


They shot 22% from three and messed around for 46 minutes. They've had games likes this for the last three years.

Calderon is the toastiest player I've ever seen in the NBA on defense


Opponents ORtg went from 118 in LA to 97 in ATL. Net on-off in LA of -16.2, but +8.2 in ATL. Defensive RPM had him at -0.36. Not good, but not Irving or Thomas either. There might be just a bit of gas left in that tank. Calderon isn't a solution, but a few minutes next to Lebron of someone who will hit some threes from the corner instead of iso-ing while Lebron stands on the other wing will help.
   293. tshipman Posted: October 18, 2017 at 01:13 AM (#5556773)
Opponents ORtg went from 118 in LA to 97 in ATL. Net on-off in LA of -16.2, but +8.2 in ATL. Defensive RPM had him at -0.36. Not good, but not Irving or Thomas either. There might be just a bit of gas left in that tank. Calderon isn't a solution, but a few minutes next to Lebron of someone who will hit some threes from the corner instead of iso-ing while Lebron stands on the other wing will help.


Calderon's been an awful defender for like 10 years. Why look at a small minute, 17 game sample in Atlanta and make any conclusions?
   294. cmd600 Posted: October 18, 2017 at 01:25 AM (#5556774)
Calderon's been an awful defender for like 10 years. Why look at a small minute, 17 game sample in Atlanta and make any conclusions?


A similar -0.40 defensive RPM the year before. For two years now hes been a below average, but not Irving/Thomas defender. Even if he is an Irving/Thomas defender, I want to see if he can go back to shooting 41% from three or if 31% is the new true talent level.

The Cavs offense tonight around Lebron was 0.9 PPP with Rose/Wade not spacing the floor and 1.56 with the better shooting threats. Thats a bigger difference than Rose can provide over even the worst defensive PG in the league. Getting the pre 2017 JR Smith would be the much bigger difference maker, but Calderon could fit a specific niche that makes this offense hum, and its not like the other options are really much better defensively.
   295. Rally Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5556976)
They have Brooklyn's pick and potentially interesting pieces in Love and Isaiah Thomas but they also don't know that LeBron's going to be on this team next year.


My guess is that pick will never play a game with Lebron. Either:

1. Lebron stays, but wants to add great player X in his prime, and the pick is traded for X. If you're the Cavs you better get Lebron's signature on an extension with no opt-out before actually signing off on this trade.
2. Lebron leaves, and the pick turns into Kyrie Irving 2.0 - interesting young player on an otherwise terrible team.
   296. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:02 PM (#5556977)
Cool article ... Meet Jimmy Butler, the basketball-obsessed alpha the Timberwolves needed

When Bernie Lee, Butler’s agent and friend, went to turn on the TV at Butler’s place in California this summer, two months after Butler moved in, he found the remote’s batteries were missing. Butler legitimately doesn’t watch television, including basketball. He didn’t even watch the NBA Finals series in June between Cleveland and Golden State. He bought a video game console this summer, but not to play NBA2K — he just wanted to play Crash Bandicoot a few times.

Butler’s list of hobbies, which is nearly endless, mostly involves activities or games that can be competitive. He plays the piano, dominoes, cards, football, track and field, baseball, checkers and Connect 4, to name a few. He swears he’s the best at dominoes, “a dominotician,” as he called it. Whatever he’s playing or doing, Butler wants to win.

“I’ve seen him get into heated, passionate debates about (the game) Catchphrase,” Lee said, “more so (heated) than I’ve seen him maybe in debates that we’ve had about basketball. I can say without a doubt, he’s the most competitive person that I’ve ever come across in my 39 years of living.”
   297. jmurph Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:11 PM (#5556983)
Another good Wolves piece- long one from Haberstroh. (Hmm, come to think of it he doesn't work at ESPN anymore? Must be something he had already filed.)

Sharing since I apparently now have a lot more mental energy for my adopted second team in Minnesota.
   298. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: October 18, 2017 at 12:42 PM (#5557011)
I am bearish on the Wolves, because I think that the league has moved closer to Thibs on defense, while he is paleolithic on offense -- IOW, his value proposition is less dramatic than it was. And I fully expect him to ruin one of Towns or Wiggins with overwork, starting this season.
   299. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: October 18, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5557035)
Very little discussion of the Warriors/Rockets game, despite it looking like a dandy. Was everyone, like me, unwilling to stay up?
   300. Fourth True Outcome Posted: October 18, 2017 at 01:23 PM (#5557046)
I don't even have that excuse, as I'm on the west coast, but I went out for a late dinner at a place showing the Cubs/Dodgers game, and didn't have enough faith in the Rockets' ability to come back in the fourth quarter to turn the game back on when I got home. Shows what I know.
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