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Wednesday, October 11, 2017

OT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, some of whom still care about baseball playoffs, but all of whom agree the Celtics gave up too much for Irving.

Here’s the thread’s top 50 players ranking.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 11, 2017 at 11:21 AM | 3977 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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2301. JC in DC Posted: December 29, 2017 at 01:55 AM (#5598407)

Both were flops and total home jobs by the ref, who you could see loved being involved in the win. Really disgusting to me was smart's travel right before his pass to the dunk.

2302. PJ Martinez Posted: December 29, 2017 at 06:55 AM (#5598419)

Worth noting that there were only two officials, because the third got hurt before the game, and one of the two officials (the one who called both charges) was Tony Brothers, who 1) doesn't have a great reputation among fans, and 2) apparently calls more offensive fouls than most refs. The officiating was kind of a mess all night.

I thought the first offensive foul call was more dubious, for what it's worth (I haven't seen particularly good replays of that one); by the second play, Harden was frustrated, and it showed. (He risked getting a technical before the play even began, shoving Smart first with his forearm and then with the ball. Instead, Brothers came over and broke it up -- a reasonable decision, especially at that point in the game.)

2303. jmurph Posted: December 29, 2017 at 09:47 AM (#5598442)

Boston's schedule has been so weird. Unless I'm counting wrong, they've played at least 3 more games (39) than every other team in the league. 6 more than Toronto, Milwaukee, Houston, and some others. They have a bunch of days off before and after the London game, but still, their opponent in that game has only played 34. Odd quirk, which I guess on a positive note should give them more rest later in the season.

2304. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: December 29, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5598458)

I have no sympathy for Harden, but those were both flops by Smart. The second one, less so, but there was minimal contact and Smart decided he was just going collapse and let Harden trample him in hopes of the call. Harden easily could have been T'd up prior to that last play, though, and I have to think his demeanor there was held against him.

I agree it seemed clear with the enthusiasm the ref had that the emotion got to him. He was like Leslie Nielsen there.

The travel was absurd, and one of the worst cases of the shuffling pivot I've ever seen.

2305. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 29, 2017 at 10:17 AM (#5598460)

Smart is the only guy I've seen besides Chris Paul who has little enough shame to not just flop, but do the "pretend you got hit in the face with an elbow" thing so he can flop while nobody is even moving at him.

2306. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: December 29, 2017 at 10:20 AM (#5598464)

While I'm going, guys like Marcus Smart don't have a place in the game in my book. There's a fine line between under your shirt defense and what he does, and I think he's over the line. He essentially plays defense like they do in college basketball, under the thought that if you foul every play they won't call all of them.

2307. PJ Martinez Posted: December 29, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5598469)

Smart is the only guy I've seen besides Chris Paul who has little enough shame to not just flop, but do the "pretend you got hit in the face with an elbow" thing so he can flop while nobody is even moving at him.

I can think of a couple of other guys...

2308. jmurph Posted: December 29, 2017 at 10:29 AM (#5598473)

So Chris Paul is now extension eligible. How many tens of millions did he cost himself with this move? Which isn't to say he made the wrong decision at all, but surely he's not getting that 4 year max after all the games missed this year, is he?

2309. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 29, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5598481)

I did wonder last night if the hoopla about Durant's recent end of game fouls on LeBron not getting called influenced Tony Brothers on this, too. I think both are defensible as foul calls, but the sort of borderline call that is never made at the end of a game. Smart sold the hell out of both, but even so I'd bet most refs in the league don't make those calls, and I wonder if Brothers does without the recent scrutiny about unmade calls.

2310. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt!

Posted: December 29, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5598521)

I can think of a couple of other guys...

The Spurs would never practice the dark arts. Shame on you!

Man, Smart v Harden is the ultimate Refs nightmare, isn't it?

2311. stanmvp48 Posted: December 29, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5598522)

Had Houston really run out of timeouts? Really hard to do

2312. f_cking sick and tired of being 57i66135 Posted: December 29, 2017 at 02:39 PM (#5598619)

this is really great

But Lopez is one of the league’s best defensive rebounders, in the very literal sense: while he may not get the rebound himself, he is fantastic at defending the glass. He takes the approach that the goal is not for the individual to get the rebound, but for the team. The Bulls are the league’s best defensive rebounding team, and they are much better on the defensive glass with Lopez on the court than when he sits — something which has been true in every season but one of Lopez’s career.

...Note how disinterested Lopez is in actually securing the board himself. He’ll pick it up if it comes right to him, but he doesn’t mind if his teammates get the glory. He knows his job is just making sure his man doesn’t.

2313. PJ Martinez Posted: December 29, 2017 at 04:48 PM (#5598677)

2312: that is great -- thanks for posting

2314. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 29, 2017 at 07:29 PM (#5598716)

NBA says those Harden calls were right, but:

The NBA's "Last Two Minutes Report" confirmed that the offensive fouls drawn by Boston's Marcus Smart against Houston's James Harden late in the Celtics' comeback win Thursday night were correct calls but identified uncalled travels before Boston's final two baskets.

The report states that Smart should have been called for a travel with 10.4 seconds left before passing to Jayson Tatum for a dunk and that Al Horford illegally moved his pivot foot with 6.8 seconds remaining before hitting the game-winning basket.

Harden was called for a pair of offensive fouls with 7.3 seconds and 3.0 seconds remaining, for pushing off on Smart while trying to position himself to catch an inbounds pass.

In both instances, the report states that, "Harden dislodges Smart from his legal guarding position."

2315. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: December 29, 2017 at 11:43 PM (#5598779)

@Con_Chron
How is Stephen Curry feeling? On Tuesday, he made 94 out of 100 three-pointers. His personal record is 96.

I will confess to

1) always wondering what % of three-pointers these guys make in practice, and
2) never in a thousand years have guessed it could be this high. My God!

2316. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: December 29, 2017 at 11:53 PM (#5598781)

Number Of Days With A Losing Record, Over The Last 20 Years

5. Jazz, 964
4. Lakers, 928
3. Rockets, 856
2. Mavericks, 826
1. Spurs, 48

2317. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 30, 2017 at 10:14 AM (#5598811)

Bulls are a juggernaut I tell you. Juggernaut.

2318. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 30, 2017 at 12:18 PM (#5598829)

1. Spurs, 48

This is really incredible.

2319. f_cking sick and tired of being 57i66135 Posted: December 30, 2017 at 12:30 PM (#5598834)

It started with the return of Nikola Mirotic, and it is starting to look like it might be a real thing. Since Mirotic’s return on December 8, the Bulls have produced a respectable 106.9 offensive rating, good for 14th in the NBA over that span; their defensive rating has rocketed all the way up to third in the league. Their plus-5.8 net rating over that span would put them fourth in the NBA over the course of the season so far.

...Friday night Chicago’s trio of Mirotic, Portis, and Markkanen ran them in circles, to the tune of 72 combined points on 25-of-46 shooting, including 13-of-26 shooting from beyond the arc. That’s insane! And that’s a reservoir of firepower that is not likely to run dry, barring injury.

...The Bulls are as hot as any team in the NBA, and they’re doing it with a roster that was designed to lose, and a head coach who very much appeared to be on the chopping block at the start of the season. They’re supposed to stink! And they’re not stinking!

link

btw, this is kind of similar to how the hawks won 60 games a few years back. there are some differences, but not all of them are unfavorable to the bulls.

2320. JC in DC Posted: December 30, 2017 at 09:34 PM (#5598946)

Just watched NY finish out a win on the road. Thank god. Nearly blew another lead, but fought back. Big 4th quarter energy from Noah.

Now, watching Utah-Cleveland. Utah is very easy to like.

[LBJ seems exhausted or uninterested. Not looking to shoot, even when guarded by Mitchell. And clearly frustrated with teammates.]

2321. JC in DC Posted: December 30, 2017 at 10:21 PM (#5598961)

Mitchell's pretty good.

2322. Tin Angel Posted: December 30, 2017 at 10:40 PM (#5598967)

Curry's return after missing 11 games - 10-13 from 3, 13-17 overall, 35 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, and 0 turnovers in 25 minutes.

2323. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: December 30, 2017 at 11:22 PM (#5598987)

No college unbeatens left. First time ever probably that this has happened before the new year (per Pomeroy and others, at least back to 1976).

2324. PJ Martinez Posted: December 31, 2017 at 07:15 AM (#5599020)

I think Mitchell has started to make a real race out of Rookie of the Year (purely in terms of likely voting; Simmons has clearly been better). If he gets his points per game over twenty, I could see him winning it.

2325. Booey Posted: December 31, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5599045)

LeBron's lost 7 straight in SLC.

2326. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

Posted: December 31, 2017 at 11:48 AM (#5599048)

No college unbeatens left.

Butler shot 15-22 from 3. That's quite helpful for winning.

2327. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: December 31, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5599060)

1. Spurs, 48

This is really incredible.

It is mind-blowing to me.

2328. f_cking sick and tired of being 57i66135 Posted: December 31, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5599061)

No college unbeatens left. First time ever probably that this has happened before the new year (per Pomeroy and others, at least back to 1976).

The first and most exciting game happened in Texas, where the Sooners and Horned Frogs exchanged leads all afternoon. Oklahoma started the game on an 11-0 run, but eventually found themselves trailing by as much as 13 in the second half. They came back, however, by relying on their super freshman point guard, Trae Young, who had 39 points and 14 assists in a game that saw him take two-thirds of his team’s threes and 37 percent of their overall field goals. Young also went 15-for-18 from the foul line, including the game’s winning two free throws with seven seconds left.

there's a ~30% chance the sixers traded this stud PG and jayson tatum for markelle fultz.

goddamnit.

2329. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 31, 2017 at 01:42 PM (#5599077)

I think Mitchell has started to make a real race out of Rookie of the Year (purely in terms of likely voting; Simmons has clearly been better). If he gets his points per game over twenty, I could see him winning it.

And if he can maintain this level of play, he might deserve to win it too. Just taking off his horrendous first five games (and yes I know they matter) he's at 20.0 PPG/3.5 AST/3.5 REB/1.7 STL/2.06 TOV shooting .460/.374/.851

2330. JC in DC Posted: December 31, 2017 at 02:02 PM (#5599082)

Aside from stats, last night at least, Donovan Mitchell was the best player on the floor. Now, LBJ wasn't himself for whatever reason, but bracket him and there's no one on either roster I'd take over Mitchell to win a game tomorrow night. He was Utah's go-to guy, and was ready for it. He was excellent.

2331. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 31, 2017 at 02:15 PM (#5599084)

btw, this is kind of similar to how the hawks won 60 games a few years back. there are some differences, but not all of them are unfavorable to the bulls.

Most unfavorable is the Bulls 3-20 start with a league worst -12.9 net rating. To go from that, to 10-2 with a +5.8 net rating is unfathomable. Only conclusion to draw is that Niko is the real MVP (but still available for a first round pick or 2). On the positive side, I'd say the fact that most of the Bulls players are quite young and improving vs perhaps a perfect storm of a bunch of guys peaking and being better as a group than individually.

I mean, I stick with what I've said before - I wouldn't predict any of the guys on the team to be a perennial All Star or anything, but they have at least a couple probable above average starters (and maybe Markkanen can continue to surprise and actually be a great player, he does seem to have quite the skill set).

2332. f_cking sick and tired of being 57i66135 Posted: December 31, 2017 at 05:20 PM (#5599125)

I think Mitchell has started to make a real race out of Rookie of the Year (purely in terms of likely voting; Simmons has clearly been better). If he gets his points per game over twenty, I could see him winning it.

simmons is only averaging 13, 7 and 8 in december, with more than 4 turnovers per game. if simmons continues to play that poorly, mitchell won't just win ROY, he'll deserve to.

on a semi-related note, dario saric is averaging 16, 8 and 4 in december, on 46/36/90 shooting.

2333. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: December 31, 2017 at 10:20 PM (#5599176)

I fear Simmons is hurt.

2334. SteveF Posted: December 31, 2017 at 10:22 PM (#5599177)

Who gets to 7 turnovers first? Booker or Embiid?

2335. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 01, 2018 at 08:07 AM (#5599199)

</lurker>
<troll>
I saw this kvetching and had to look to see if Suns beat the 76ers. They didn't. Bummer!
</troll>
<lurker>

2336. f_cking sick and tired of being 57i66135 Posted: January 01, 2018 at 09:19 AM (#5599205)

I fear Simmons is hurt.

that wouldn't surprise me, but i think it's just fatigue.

if you watch this video of simmons getting blocked at the rim last night, you can kinda see he thought he'd be able to dunk, and he didn't have the spring to do it.

lucky for the sixers, super dario made an appearance, putting up 27, 4, 2, 3 and 1, shooting 9/13 from the floor.

2337. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 02, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5599536)

Harden is going to miss 2 weeks now.

---

Should I post a new thread?

2338. Rally Posted: January 02, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5599556)

I will confess to

1) always wondering what % of three-pointers these guys make in practice, and
2) never in a thousand years have guessed it could be this high. My God!

That is incredible. Given 100 practice shots I'd probably hit 10. I might have a better chance of beating Giancarlo Stanton in a homerun derby than Steph Curry in a 3 point contest. Though the chances of either are microscopic.

2339. jmurph Posted: January 02, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5599557)

Should I post a new thread?

I was just thinking of this exchange earlier today (note the dates):

1. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:43 AM (#5410739)
Happy New Year, NBA thread.

2. jmurph Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5410755)
Happy New Year, NBA thread.

I don't know, feels a little rushed.

3. Rob_Wood Posted: March 01, 2017 at 12:54 PM (#5410822)
I fully support the idea of going back to the old Roman calendar having exactly ten months.

And I am not a crackpot.

4. aberg Posted: March 01, 2017 at 01:00 PM (#5410826)
Happy New Year, NBA thread.

I don't know, feels a little rushed.

It's already March NBA Thread and I'm still writing December NBA Thread on my checks.

2340. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: January 02, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5599620)

My 2 ½ yr old daughter Peanut got a "basketball game" (a Tiny Tikes hoop) for Christmas, and now she's obsessed with basketball. The best part, though, is that she's asking to watch basketball on my phone, and when I show her games, she criticizes the players for not passing enough ("Why isn't he sharing, Dad?") Andrew Wiggins comes in for especial approbation. I'll have to try her on Golden State or the Spurs, I guess.

2341. Booey Posted: January 02, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5599624)

That is incredible. Given 100 practice shots I'd probably hit 10. I might have a better chance of beating Giancarlo Stanton in a homerun derby than Steph Curry in a 3 point contest. Though the chances of either are microscopic.

I'd still go with the 3 point contest vs Curry, because I physically can (and have!) hit NBA distance 3 pointers before (albeit at a very, very low percentage). I doubt I could hit an MLB distance HR, even facing batting practice pitching.

2342. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: January 02, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5599630)

I doubt I could hit an MLB distance HR, even facing batting practice pitching.

Yeesh, especially with a wooden bat.

2343. Booey Posted: January 02, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5599632)

Unless you count all the inside the park homers I could rack up during a HR derby, what with the outfield packed full of kids and no one manning the bases...

2344. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 02, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5599692)

Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA

November 19th: Fultz taking part in "progressive basketball training and practices" in next 2-3 weeks.
Dec 9th: Imbalance gone, readiness gauged in 2-3 weeks.
Dec 28: Report: only shooting so far. Team activities soon.
Jan 2nd: "gradual re-integration into team practices."

1:05 PM - 2 Jan 2018

2345. Tin Angel Posted: January 02, 2018 at 02:48 PM (#5599698)

I doubt I could hit an MLB distance HR, even facing batting practice pitching.

What if the guy is throwing 95? Isn't there a chance that if you got lucky and hit one solidly the pitcher would provide a lot of the power?

2346. Booey Posted: January 02, 2018 at 03:02 PM (#5599718)

What if the guy is throwing 95? Isn't there a chance that if you got lucky and hit one solidly the pitcher would provide a lot of the power?

No idea. Never tried hitting pitching that fast. Nor have I tried to measure the distances of my furthest homers (at random park fields). But hey, they look really damn impressive on Little League fields! (as an adult)

Are MLB fences short enough down the lines that a normal guy could reach them? No clue whether the average 330' or whatever is within the range of Joe's Schmoe's like me.

I'd still rather take my chances in the 3 pt contest. I know I can at least occasionally hit those.

2347. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 02, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5599731)

The depressing part is Stanton would beat me in a 3-pt contest and Curry would own me in a Home Run hitting contest. Sigh. Stupid professional athletes.

2348. Booey Posted: January 02, 2018 at 03:17 PM (#5599736)

The depressing part is Stanton would beat me in a 3-pt contest and Curry would own me in a Home Run hitting contest. Sigh. Stupid professional athletes.

I'm always smugly satisfied when a pro has a game so bad that I can confidently say, "I could've done that." Like when a pitcher gets pulled after giving up multiple runs in the first inning without recording an out, or when a batter goes 0-4 with 4 K's and commits multiple errors in the field. Or in hoops when a sub comes in for just a couple minutes, misses all their shots, commits a few turnovers and gets torched on D before heading back to the bench. I could totally do all those things.

2349. f_cking sick and tired of being 57i66135 Posted: January 02, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5599764)

Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA

November 19th: Fultz taking part in "progressive basketball training and practices" in next 2-3 weeks.
Dec 9th: Imbalance gone, readiness gauged in 2-3 weeks.
Dec 28: Report: only shooting so far. Team activities soon.
Jan 2nd: "gradual re-integration into team practices."

1:05 PM - 2 Jan 2018

WE'RE DOING IT !!!

2350. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 02, 2018 at 04:24 PM (#5599781)

Gotta say, I'm rooting for Fultz to have a strong finish to the season. It's been a weird situation, but it seems like he's had the unfortunate combo of a pretty uncommon injury and bad PR/representation communication. It'd be nice if he's able to show why he deserved the #1 pick in the last few months of the season and put that nonsense behind him.

2351. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: January 02, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5599785)

What if the guy is throwing 95? Isn't there a chance that if you got lucky and hit one solidly the pitcher would provide a lot of the power?

I can only speak for myself, but I would get the ####### bat knocked out of my hands.

2352. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: January 02, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5599792)

I can only speak for myself, but I would get the ####### bat knocked out of my hands.

I would likely just keel over, dead.

2353. JC in DC Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5599801)

I just read an article at SI or ESPN on the "rise" of Brandon Ingram, who I've not seen play in a bit, apparently, as I was shocked by how inked he is. And, a question arose: who is the most successful player inked like him? I can think of lots of guys who were successful role players who were heavily inked (Rodman, Birdman, Matt Barnes, and so on), but maybe I'm overlooking someone obvious - are there any stars so heavily inked? IOW, is ink the next advanced stat?

2354. Tin Angel Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:09 PM (#5599806)

are there any stars so heavily inked? IOW, is ink the next advanced stat?

LeBron is pretty covered.

2355. GregD Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:09 PM (#5599807)

I would likely just keel over, dead.

A friend of my dad's grew up in Pittsburgh and says--who knows if it would survive fact-checking--that once when he went back to the burgh to visit his brothers in the late 70s they were at a bar where Kent Tekulve was also drinking. Somebody among his brothers' friends--big guys, Poles, football players--started working Tekulve, saying he could hit off his weird pitches, etc. Wanna bet? Tekulve asks. Terms are arranged. Ten bucks. Five strikes. One ball hit in generally fair territory. So out they go into the parking lot, step off 60 feet. The bartender--this is 70s Pittsburgh--has a bat under the bar. The big talker steps in, and Tekulve snaps a pitch that starts out at the guy's head and then sails down and over the heart of whatever makeshift plate they set up.

The big talker is ass down on the ground. Whoever is playing umpire calls a strike. Big talker looks at himself, at the plate, at Tekulve. Reaches in his pocket and takes out ten bucks and says, you win.

Whether the story is true or not, it probably captures what most people would do against serious MLB pitches. Me, certainly. Hitting against the pitching machine dialed up into the eighties is one thing, but this is different.

2356. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:11 PM (#5599809)

JC, of course. LeBron. Durant (his back).

2357. JC in DC Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5599811)

I considered both. Didn't realize (a) LBJ was so tatted up, and (b) I'm not counting that. So far, at least, it's mostly hidden. But, yeah, so much for my advanced stat.

2358. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5599814)

Iverson was the one who broke the tattoo barrier (which was quite a bit more of a barrier than it is now), so we'd be remiss to not give him a mention, at least.

2359. JC in DC Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5599818)

Yeah, Iverson's another evidence against my theory. Back to the drawing board!

2360. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5599819)

Rose had a ton of tats, even back when he was good. Curry doesn't, Kawhi getting there, Westbrook not so much. So, nothing consistent there.

2361. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:26 PM (#5599820)

Maybe my favorite though, is don't the Morris twins have the same tattoos?

2362. Booey Posted: January 02, 2018 at 05:58 PM (#5599828)

#2361 - Man, that's weird. You'd think identical twins would get tired of always being confused for their sibling and wouldn't willfully do something to encourage it...

2363. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 02, 2018 at 06:12 PM (#5599833)

JC! Too bad it hasn't been updated in a couple years

2364. PJ Martinez Posted: January 02, 2018 at 08:23 PM (#5599872)

Evan Turner looks like Rami Malek.

2365. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 02, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5599883)

Portland understandably runs out of gas tonight after the second game of a back to back. Isaiah Thomas played well, 17 points in 19 minutes. Crowder shot well and maybe seeing Thomas reminded Crowder that he is a good player.

2366. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 02, 2018 at 11:26 PM (#5599908)

Helluva finish for a game between two last place teams (Atlanta vs Phoenix).

2367. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 02, 2018 at 11:27 PM (#5599909)

Manu Ginobili makes a 3-pointer, but the refs don't notice.

I've never seen that happen before. I am amazed. I can't stop watching.

2368. Lassus Posted: January 03, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5599980)

Hello random weirdos!

If I have a longbox full of basketball cards from the 90s, is there anything in particular I should look for in regards to possible random value? Companies, players, anything?

Are ANY Basketball cards worth anything?

2369. Harlond Posted: January 03, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5599986)

A friend of my dad's grew up in Pittsburgh and says--who knows if it would survive fact-checking--that once when he went back to the burgh to visit his brothers in the late 70s they were at a bar where Kent Tekulve was also drinking. Somebody among his brothers' friends--big guys, Poles, football players--started working Tekulve, saying he could hit off his weird pitches, etc. Wanna bet? Tekulve asks. Terms are arranged. Ten bucks. Five strikes. One ball hit in generally fair territory. So out they go into the parking lot, step off 60 feet. The bartender--this is 70s Pittsburgh--has a bat under the bar. The big talker steps in, and Tekulve snaps a pitch that starts out at the guy's head and then sails down and over the heart of whatever makeshift plate they set up.

The big talker is ass down on the ground. Whoever is playing umpire calls a strike. Big talker looks at himself, at the plate, at Tekulve. Reaches in his pocket and takes out ten bucks and says, you win.

Whether the story is true or not, it probably captures what most people would do against serious MLB pitches. Me, certainly. Hitting against the pitching machine dialed up into the eighties is one thing, but this is different.

Twenty or so years ago I went to Len Whitehouse's baseball academy in Burlington, Vermont. Len, a lefty, pitched 115 innings in the bigs before his arm went out, career ERA+ of 91. Not exactly Kent Tekulve. According to his radar gun at the academy that day, Len was throwing low 80s without appearing to make any real effort at it. This was probably about 6-8 years after he left the majors. He threw me the ball once. Not only was the speed really high (as far as I was concerned), the movement was shocking. I knew I couldn't catch it and just ducked. Then I told him not to throw me the ball anymore. If I had any illusions about my ability to stack up to professional athletes, they died that day.

2370. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: January 03, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5599995)

If I had any illusions about my ability to stack up to professional athletes, they died that day.

I played on an IM basketball team at Chicago with a guy who'd been a scholarship player at Iowa. We lost in the playoffs to the law school team with a guy who, as an undergraduate at Michigan, had played on the IM team that had beaten the team with Rumeal Robinson and Glen Rice. Jay Reed was as helpless against that guy as I was against Jay Reed. It put things nicely in perspective for me.

2371. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

Posted: January 03, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5600046)

Back in the early 70s, we had a gym class cancelled at the last minute so the West German women's volleyball team could practice. I hung around to watch, at some point stationing myself a little past the end line, while this 6' plus lefty was practicing her spikes. The ball had so much velocity and spin that I could not catch the ball cleanly.

Imagine if it had been the East German "women's" team!

2372. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 03, 2018 at 12:00 PM (#5600077)

Portland understandably runs out of gas tonight after the second game of a back to back. Isaiah Thomas played well, 17 points in 19 minutes. Crowder shot well and maybe seeing Thomas reminded Crowder that he is a good player.

The dreaded SEGABABA where you lose an hour changing time zones and had game 1 go to OT. I'm impressed that they kept the game close for so long, until the Cavs' bench went on a 13-0 run early in the 4th to take a 104-91 lead.

On a related note, did Cleveland put the best bench lineup ever assembled on the floor last night? IT, Wade, Korver, Jeff Green, and Tristan Thompson: an All-Star in his prime, a former superstar now moonlighting as a really good 6th man, a couple starter-level role players, and Jeff Green, who never lived up to his draft pedigree but is playing maybe the best ball of his career. They entered the game with a combined 2,439 career starts in 3,679 regular season games.

2373. Tin Angel Posted: January 03, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5600092)

Imagine if it had been the East German "women's" team!

Ha ha. Reminds me of the Norm McDonald joke at the espy awards...

2374. aberg Posted: January 03, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5600146)

I played in an IM basketball league in law school where lots of UW football players would sneak in. We played a team with Jermaine Kearse and a couple of other good UW FB players one time. He dunked all over us, but we still beat his team. We also had a former D2 basketball player, Oregon St TE, Harvard DE, D3 Football All-American, 2 D2 baseball players, and one tall, slow guy from Georgetown. In both IM hoops and flag football, we had an intense rivalry with the Dental School, who was led by a guy who had a cup of coffee as a reliever with the Orioles. Wish I could remember his name. He was a helluvan athlete.

2375. aberg Posted: January 03, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5600155)

JR Smith and Wilson Chandler deserve mention in the tattoo discussion. Wilson Chandler. JR

David Beckham has a lot for someone as famous as him. US goalie Tim Howard has a ton. Beckham Howard

2376. f_cking sick and tired of being 57i66135 Posted: January 03, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5600209)

JR Smith and Wilson Chandler deserve mention in the tattoo discussion. Wilson Chandler. JR

if you like that, you can buy one of your own.

2377. f_cking sick and tired of being 57i66135 Posted: January 03, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5600217)

San Antonio Spurs @spurs
Rudy Gay (right heel bursitis), Manu Ginobili (rest), Danny Green (tightness, left groin), Kawhi Leonard (return from injury management) and Tony Parker (return from injury management) are all out for tonight’s Spurs-76ers game.

on a related note, bryn forbes will score 46 points tonight.

2378. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt!

Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5600365)

I had two brushes with real basketball players. The first was a pick up game at Syracuse. I was a terrible player but I played with some guys on my dorm floor who were good high school players and we actually had a good run of wins. Then a team showed up that featured a couple of guys on the Syracuse men's basketball team. I did not want to play them but you can't just turn tail and run when you have the court. They killed us very quickly and I was glad to get out of there. It was embarrassing for me to even be on the floor with those guys.

The second is a little weirder. I was in Hermitage PA for Spring Break because that's where my room mate lived and I didn't have the money to get home or go anywhere. His dad owned a print shop and was entered in some kind of local small business sports competition, one the sports being basketball. They didn't have a lot of people to play so they asked me to be a body on the team and so I did. I show up for the game and everyone on my team is dead certain we were going to win even though the other team looked far better than we did. I was probably the 3rd best player on our team and I am very, very terrible at basketball. But we had one paunchy white dude that everyone kept whispering about. He played college ball. He had been something like an NAIA All-American. The stories kept getting more outlandish, topping off with the story he'd beat Chris Mullin in a pick up game (this is the height of Run TMC, by the way.) I didn't believe any of it, especially that part about Mullin. I was a huge Mullin fan and couldn't believe this paunchy white guy had even played him. But damn, once the game started this guy was amazing. We just fed him the ball and he'd sink 25 footers or drive to the basket at will. He was bizarrely competitive for the context, too. He barked at the refs, he talked crap to the other team and he was unstoppable. I still don't believe he could beat a prime Mullin but he was a real baller. He could have easily played division 1 ball but he seems like he just fell through the cracks for whatever reason.

2379. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: January 03, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5600371)

"Return from Injury Management" sounds like the apotheosis of fake-ass NCAA Div I player majors, doesn't it?

2380. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: January 03, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5600386)

I played IM softball in college against someone who later had a couple of seasons in MLB. He was scarily good at everything. And I wasn't a half-bad HS baseball player.

2381. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt!

Posted: January 03, 2018 at 10:46 PM (#5600539)

Dennis Smith Jr can fly. He's just so fast to the rim when he leaps it's a little unreal. If he develops a consistent jumper he is going to torture the league.

2382. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt!

Posted: January 03, 2018 at 10:48 PM (#5600540)

Dallas is 18 of 40 from 3 and it doesn't matter. The Warriors aren't bad.

2383. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt!

Posted: January 03, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5600541)

Woops. Might have cursed the Dubs there. Sorry guys!

2384. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt!

Posted: January 03, 2018 at 10:58 PM (#5600545)

Curry with the game winner to bail the Warriors out. The Mavericks scored the tying bucket but they left 14 seconds on the clock which was plenty of time for the Warriors to run a pick and roll and open a shot for Steph. Kerr wisely didn't call a timeout because he saw the Warriors could get a mismatch in transition with Dirk on the floor.

2385. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: January 04, 2018 at 01:00 AM (#5600566)

Don't see too many games in this era where a team has 56 made field goals (as OKC had tonight).

2386. JC in DC Posted: January 04, 2018 at 08:09 AM (#5600586)

Proposed: Rick Carlisle is Greg Popovich without David Robinson and Tim Duncan.

Go!

2387. tshipman

Posted: January 04, 2018 at 09:00 AM (#5600601)

Proposed: Rick Carlisle is Greg Popovich without David Robinson and Tim Duncan.

Go!

I mean Dirk = David Robinson, basically. Both were fully formed by the time either guy got there, both helped win a championship, etc.

The difference between Carlisle and Pop is that Pop developed 3 HOF guys. Tony Parker, Ginobili and Duncan all have spent their whole career with Pop and he made them who they are.

By contrast the most notable guy Carlisle has developed has been ... JJ Barea? Devin Harris? Maybe that's just a lack of opportunity, but Pop's taken guys at the middle and end of the draft and turned them into MVPs and Allstars. Carlisle hasn't done that.

2388. jmurph Posted: January 04, 2018 at 09:31 AM (#5600612)

I never know what to think about Carlisle. He's like a consensus top 5 coach among all the smart people, so I'm inclined to defer to that, but he's also got out of the 1st round twice in 9 years in Dallas (and will almost certainly miss the playoffs again this year, his 10th season there). So sure, a lot of that is on the front office, but I can't imagine any scenario in which Pop has a record like that.

2389. tshipman

Posted: January 04, 2018 at 09:39 AM (#5600615)

I never know what to think about Carlisle. He's like a consensus top 5 coach among all the smart people, so I'm inclined to defer to that, but he's also got out of the 1st round twice in 9 years in Dallas (and will almost certainly miss the playoffs again this year, his 10th season there). So sure, a lot of that is on the front office, but I can't imagine any scenario in which Pop has a record like that.

Ehhh, that's more of an argument for Phil than anything.

Last 10 years, Spurs exits:
2017: WCF
2016: Second Round
2015: First Round
2014: Championship
2013: Lost Finals
2012: WCF
2011: First Round
2010: Second Round
2009: First round
2008: WCF

Pop's lost in the first round more often than he should have, really.

2390. jmurph Posted: January 04, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5600617)

The Wolves had 10 assists last night. That seems practically impossible.

2391. jmurph Posted: January 04, 2018 at 09:45 AM (#5600620)

tship: I don't see any comparison to Carlisle to be made there.

2392. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: January 04, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5600623)

Carlisle seems like a pretty good coach to me. It's really hard to compare coach situations. Carlisle's had success everywhere he's been, though he had no shortage of talent in Detroit and in his early years with Dallas.

Pop meanwhile has been in one place forever which I think makes longterm success easier (though not easy, or everyone would do it). He also walked into a spot where they were going to be good out of the get go with Duncan, which gave him a lot of time to grow into the role and put his system/culture in place. And it's hard to know how much credit others in the organization should get (as it is with all front offices in sports), but it's safe to assume that San Antonio has a lot of good people beyond Pop. There's also probably some luck in things like Kawhi's development, etc.

I'm extremely reluctant to put anyone in Pop's league just because of the way his teams have evolved. Early when Robinson and Duncan were both great, they played a pretty typical style for that era and those players. Slow pace (usually in the bottom 5 or so), physical, defensively focused. Offensive efficiency was up and down. They played that way through the mid-00s, and at that time I thought he was a very good coach but I could understand (and even believed) the skepticism of is he really all that without Duncan.

Around 2009 or 2010, the team moved for a few years to be much more offensively focused, passing the ball, player movement, cutting, pace increased, their defense wasn't as good (they got rid of some of the offensive zeroes like Bowen and Duncan wasn't the force he'd been before). Then for the last 5 or 6 years they've been exceptional and been great on both sides of the ball, a few of those years with no real stars, and the last few with Kawhi's incredible development. They handled losing Duncan like it was nothing, which I think people were skeptical of here. A lot of people thought they'd really struggle without Kawhi the first third of this season, and while they weren't playing like a contender they were playing like a 50-55 win team which was pretty remarkable.

Carlisle's had some lean years, and at this point it's really hard for me to envision that happening with Pop and the Spurs. Whomever they run out there is going to usually compete. Whether that's growing players, playing philosophy, or identifying talent (I think it's a bit of each) I am not comfortable putting Carlisle in that class.

2393. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: January 04, 2018 at 10:04 AM (#5600632)

I mean Dirk = David Robinson, basically. Both were fully formed by the time either guy got there, both helped win a championship, etc.

I get your larger point, but Dirk never had anywhere near the two-way impact of The Admiral.

2394. JC in DC Posted: January 04, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5600635)

Agree with Votto: Dirk was a fantastic scorer, but he's no Admiral. My point is that Carlisle's teams seem almost always to overperform expectation, much as Pops' teams do.

2395. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 04, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5600673)

The difference between Carlisle and Pop is that Pop developed 3 HOF guys. Tony Parker, Ginobili and Duncan all have spent their whole career with Pop and he made them who they are.

For development purposes, you probably should sub out Duncan for Kawhi. I don't know how much credit to give Pops for Duncan considering he was pretty much fully formed from the get go (and was also seen as a generational guy going into that draft). That's not to say I don't want to give Pops any credit either, just, it's not so clear. Also, Manu was 25 when he got to the league, although he did improve a bit after he was here.

2396. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 04, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5600686)

The Bulls are on a clutch 3 game losing streak, but have been quite competitive in all of the games. They took the Wizards to OT in DC, then blew a last minute lead to the Blazers (without Lillard), then last night started the 4th quarter tied with the Raps before fading.

You can see the progress that Dunn and Markkanen are making, and even Denzel Valentine is improving. Plus, Niko is still improving his trade value. The overall season numbers for the team and the individual players are still mostly terrible looking though.

2397. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 04, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5600695)

Speaking of the Mavs...

Bobby Karalla @bobbykaralla 13h13 hours ago

The official Chinese name of the Mavericks has been changed to 独行侠 (DúXíngXiá), which translates roughly in English to “Lone Ranger Heroes.”

2398. f_cking sick and tired of being 57i66135 Posted: January 04, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5600717)

The Bulls are on a clutch 3 game losing streak, but have been quite competitive in all of the games. They took the Wizards to OT in DC, then blew a last minute lead to the Blazers (without Lillard), then last night started the 4th quarter tied with the Raps before fading.

don't force it if your heart's not into it. we can't all be 57i66135.

at what point is a regular fan allowed to get excited about dario saric? over the last 10 games, he's put up 18, 7 and 4 on 49/43/91 shooting. 22% usage, 63% true shooting. small sample size and selective endpoints caveats apply, but that's pretty close to what i pegged as his best case scenario (he's still a little light on the assists and the usage, and his defense needs to get better).

2399. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 04, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5600766)

don't force it if your heart's not into it. we can't all be 57i66135.

It's mostly tongue in cheek. During the games, I'm rooting for a win like any regular fan, but more specifically looking for good play from the young guys (and Niko). After they lose, I accept that the loss is better for their chances for Doncic*.

*I'm all in on him, if only because he looks like he'd be a perfect fit on this team (Dunn/Lavine/Doncic/Markkanen), at least for maximizing entertainment (defense will be TBD).

2400. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 04, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5600783)

I think Carlisle is a tactically excellent coach, but to me the development angle is half of what makes Popvich the legend he is. The Spurs have had Duncan and Robinson on his watch, and Manu is perhaps suis generis, but not only did he develop Parker and Kawhi, he features a revolving cast of Euros, other team's cast-offs, and long-in-the-tooth vets as his team's (very effective) depth year after year. Carlisle hasn't had high draft picks to work with, but he also doesn't seem to do well at (or care overmuch about) development of his young players. The Dirk/Carlisle Mavs have always played wonderfully with their stars, but been hampered by a lack of depth. Pop's greatness is that he manages to balance year-in-and-year-out contention with developing the players he'll need next year. Carlisle is a great coach, but he doesn't manage that one like Pop does. (No one does, really.)

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