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Wednesday, October 11, 2017

OT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, some of whom still care about baseball playoffs, but all of whom agree the Celtics gave up too much for Irving.

Here’s the thread’s top 50 players ranking.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 11, 2017 at 11:21 AM | 2793 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   2501. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM (#5603996)
I think STIGGLES was right that Rubio needs the ball in his hands almost like Rondo to be useful. It also hasn't helped that he does not know how to throw lobs (at least when Rudy was healthy), and Jazz don't have anyone to run pick & pops with him. But since Jazz weren't planning on changing their system at any point, the Ricky trade looks like a dumb panic move to make sure they didn't meet with Hayward without a starting PG on the roster.

I don't know why his defense has been so horrendous, but every opposing PG is driving by him with ease.
   2502. aberg Posted: January 10, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5604009)
Incidentally, who says no to a trade of Teague for Courtney Lee and Ron Baker?


I'd be all over that, but I'm an unapologetic Courtney Lee fan.
   2503. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: January 10, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5604014)
That said, Rubio's game has utterly collapsed in Utah. Don't know how much of that is him, versus the change in system/teammates.

Sure. But if you're going to replace Rubio, replace him with a guard who fits the putative system better.
   2504. aberg Posted: January 10, 2018 at 01:02 PM (#5604077)
Sure. But if you're going to replace Rubio, replace him with a guard who fits the putative system better.


I don't disagree, but availability was a mitigating factor. Jrue Holiday was a FA who would've been a better fit, but he stayed home and got more $ than the Wolves could pay anyway. George Hill is theoretically a better fit, but he's always hurt and pretty old.
   2505. jmurph Posted: January 10, 2018 at 02:38 PM (#5604138)
I'm starting to wonder how Boston will approach the trade deadline, and really this postseason in general. Say they hold onto home court, or even the 2 seed (the latter seems reasonably likely to me, but I think someone will pass them for the 1 seed), and say they maintain a top 3 defense (currently they're first in DRtg). Do they try to make a move to upgrade their offense? They have an $8ish million disabled player exception, though I understand those are relatively difficult to use. The main issue I see is that their tradable assets (assuming of course that Kyrie/Horford/Hayward aren't going anywhere!) are very cheap, making contract matching pretty difficult.
   2506. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 10, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5604232)
In addition to all of that, they have the Gordon Hayward of Damocles hanging over their heads, if you believe the optimistic rehab reports. Any addition they could make, given their salary constraints, wouldn't be as good as Hayward coming back at anything close to 100%. If they think that's a realistic possibility (which they may or may not), then you'd expect them to keep their powder dry.
   2507. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 10, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5604237)
reggie miller: lakers should trade lonzo ball

















........if his damn dad doesn't shut up.
   2508. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 10, 2018 at 04:46 PM (#5604241)
The Celtics should trade for Julius Randle. I'm fully committed to the idea that he'd be a perfect fit. Boston's main flaws are a lack of interior scoring (22nd in FG% inside 3 feet; 20th in attempts) and not getting to the free throw line (17th in FTA, which is worse than it looks considering how many close games they've won), and those are two of Randle's strengths. His biggest drawback is his negative effect on spacing, but as long as he's paired with Horford or Morris that's largely blunted. It's remarkable that Randle has been such an effective scorer (60% TS on 25% Usage) considering the lack of outside shooting around him--the Lakers rank last in 3P%. I'd really like to see what he could do with more room to operate, both as an interior scorer and as a facilitator. Plus, since the Lakers have little apparent interest in re-signing him this summer, it sounds like he's available for a late- or heavily-protected 1st rounder. Randle for either the Celtics' 2018 1st rounder or the Clippers' 2019 lotto-protected 1st rounder seems fair to me.
   2509. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 10, 2018 at 04:52 PM (#5604252)
Steph Curry sprained his ankle during shoot around and is out for tonight's game. KD is back, though.
   2510. JuanGone..except1game Posted: January 10, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5604287)
Plus, since the Lakers have little apparent interest in re-signing him this summer, it sounds like he's available for a late- or heavily-protected 1st rounder. Randle for either the Celtics' 2018 1st rounder or the Clippers' 2019 lotto-protected 1st rounder seems fair to me.

I'm high on Luke Walton, but the Randle thing sticks in my craw. First, its clear that he is one of your 2/3 best players so his minutes make no sense there. Secondly, if you are considering that he isn't in your long term plans then you have incentive to play him more to increase his trade value. Third, if you don't want to harm the long term prospects on the team like Kuzma, I get it, but then take away Nance's minutes. Makes no damn sense. Given how they are treating him, I'd take that Clippers pick deal.
   2511. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 10, 2018 at 07:45 PM (#5604319)
I'm high on Luke Walton

For those that have watched the Lakers more closely than I, how is Walton doing as coach? He looked good at the helm of the Warriors, but I think most posters here would too. What are the ~1 1/2 season returns on Luke Walton, Lakers head coach?
   2512. Tin Angel Posted: January 10, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5604350)
Jeff Van Gundy on the Lowe Post, talking about Thibodeau's usage of players: "People complain about minutes, but no one gets hurt...(long pause)...there."
   2513. PJ Martinez Posted: January 10, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5604370)
I'd love for the Celtics to get Randle, but I suspect that 1) another team might offer a better pick, and 2) the Lakers might be reluctant to trade with Boston.

I'd also be be pretty happy if the Celtics traded for Tyreke Evans, who could provide shot creation off the bench, which has been an issue.

That said, I suspect they will wait for the buyout market and use the DPE to outbid other teams for someone. Greg Monroe seems like the most obvious candidate.
   2514. tshipman Posted: January 10, 2018 at 10:49 PM (#5604392)

For those that have watched the Lakers more closely than I, how is Walton doing as coach? He looked good at the helm of the Warriors, but I think most posters here would too. What are the ~1 1/2 season returns on Luke Walton, Lakers head coach?


Luke has mostly done good things. The team plays pretty good defense (14th overall), and while the offense isn't good, most of that is on the talent, not the coach.

The Lakers get the highest percentage of their shots at the rim (35%) in the league, and convert at an above average rate. They are slightly below average in terms of 3pers, but most of that is personnel, as they are dead last in 3p percentage.

They have a high turnover rate, a lot of which is coming from their young guys, so you don't mind that so much.

In general, the team plays hard, has an intelligent scheme on offense and defense, and are mostly limited by their personnel being young or bad at shooting. I feel like he's a good coach.
   2515. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2018 at 11:55 PM (#5604433)
"With the Rockets up by seven and fifteen seconds to play, Chris Paul scores the layup, and Damian Lillard takes exception to the play."


For 'running up the score', apparently. Who knew basketball players were so damn sensitive???
   2516. tshipman Posted: January 11, 2018 at 01:26 AM (#5604443)
Great win for the Clippers/awful loss for the Warriors.

Lou Williams goes for 50, wins the 6th man of the year award in January and earns the Clippers a 1st round pick at the deadline.
   2517. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 11, 2018 at 01:43 AM (#5604446)
In his last 10 games, Lou Williams is averaging 31.8 PPG.
   2518. Tin Angel Posted: January 11, 2018 at 01:53 AM (#5604447)
   2519. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5604527)
So the Wolves handled OKC fairly easily and have won the season series against them. As good as they are playing right now, it feels like this version of the team is the one that got people so excited for their future the last couple of years.

I always said I would judge Thibs after this year was done, because changing the culture, getting the kids to truly buy into his scheme and also getting his guys was going to take time, but I admit I am more optimistic than I have been since before the season started.
   2520. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 11, 2018 at 10:38 AM (#5604556)
All 3 Bulls/Knicks games this year have been way more entertaining than they should have been (ok, maybe the first one wasn't great; actually, none of them are "great" basketball, but they're close games and fun). Playing against Porzingis appears to bring the best out of Markkanen, as Lauri had another outstanding game on both ends of the floor (he definitely ran out of gas late though, and that when's Porzingis played his best). I think Porzingis is annoyed he's lost all 3, and this:

Porzingis even spoke longingly about Chicago’s playing style, which contrasts New York’s halfcourt style.

“They play free. They’re young, they run up and down. It’s pretty fun to watch them play,” he said.


The Knicks spent way too much of the game letting Beasley and Jack go iso, even though they both played well enough. For the Bulls, Dunn was awful and it was obvious they missed Niko (sick). But yeah, I'll take entertaining 2OT games. And I think I'm all in on Markkanen now.
   2521. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 11, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5604566)

Kevin Durant becomes second-youngest player ever to score 20,000 career points


Kind of a junk stat given that he's being compared to players who played four years in college.
   2522. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 11, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5604585)
DWade @DwyaneWade 6m6 minutes ago

As a fan of the game and as someone who played with some of the young guys last season. It’s cool to see the Young Bulls grow as the season goes on! Fred and his staff has done a great job!


I wonder if the random complimentary tweet was part of his buyout agreement.
   2523. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5604594)
Kind of a junk stat given that he's being compared to players who played four years in college.

Definitely fair, but we're now into the 3rd decade of the one (or none) and done era, so it's still pretty damn impressive.
   2524. SteveF Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5604608)
Kind of a junk stat given that he's being compared to players who played four years in college.

He's 10th fastest by games played, but the game is so different these days so it's pretty hard to compare even by that measure. Even if you went by shots taken, you'd have arguments about usage percentages, the three point line, the elimination of hand-checking on the perimeter, etc.
   2525. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5604627)
So the Wolves handled OKC fairly easily and have won the season series against them. As good as they are playing right now, it feels like this version of the team is the one that got people so excited for their future the last couple of years.

I always said I would judge Thibs after this year was done, because changing the culture, getting the kids to truly buy into his scheme and also getting his guys was going to take time, but I admit I am more optimistic than I have been since before the season started.
jimmy butler is one of the 15 best players in the sport and you got him for nearly nothing.

i get that the wolf fanbase reacts to good things like a shelter dog that's been abused, but butler and KAT are good enough to drag a team of Dleague all stars to the playoffs.
   2526. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:32 AM (#5604636)
i get that the wolf fanbase reacts to good things like a shelter dog that's been abused, but butler and KAT are good enough to drag a team of Dleague all stars to the playoffs.


Huh?

Butler was already a part of this team when expectations were running high at the beginning of the year. Then those expectation were largely dashed. Remember comments about how terrible Wiggins was? How Thibs was largely obsolete and the league had passed him by? The young kids were not learning to play defense, especially Towns, and that plus the insane minutes were doom?

I remember those sorts of comments from a variety of places, and to be fair early in the season things were looking dismal (not by normal Wolves standards, but by expectations). I just thought maybe, in light of the fairly amazing turn around in fortunes lately, we could walk back some of the earlier pessimism.

Before I get too excited I want to see the defense continue for the rest of the season, I want the growth in KAT's game to be shown to be a real commitment and maturation on his side and not just a reflexive and temporary response to the criticism he was getting. And most importantly I want Wiggins to progress to the point that the massive contract he got is not a huge millstone around the neck of the franchise (still an open question).

The wolves will make the playoffs absent catastrophe, but I want more and I need the young guys to continue to progress for that to happen.
   2527. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5604648)
Remember comments about how terrible Wiggins was?

Well, because it can't all be good news!, he's actually been a little worse in games 22-43 than he was in games 1-21. This is definitely still a terrifying season on the Wiggins front.

But yeah the team's defensive improvement has been fun to watch, seeing Jones step up, Towns looking more active/aware defensively, Butler obviously, etc. Lots to like. I'd definitely make them favorites at this moment to get out of round 1 against OKC or Portland.
   2528. JC in DC Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5604649)
Moses: I watched that game. LM looked really good. His battle with KP was fun. I'm not sure what to make of NY's approach. They want to win, I get it. But I would love to have seen them go with Frank N in the OTs. He needs experience. I don't really care about Ws and Ls all that much, and I'm not sure why they care about Jack getting so much run. Man, Dunn could not shoot. And, man, he fouled the hell out of KP on that shot towards the end of regulation.
   2529. JC in DC Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5604651)
i get that the wolf fanbase reacts to good things like a shelter dog that's been abused, but butler and KAT are good enough to drag a team of Dleague all stars to the playoffs.



Yes, STIGGLES, Wolves fans should temper their responses to positive developments much as 76ers fans do.
   2530. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5604653)
Well, because it can't all be good news!, he's actually been a little worse in games 22-43 than he was in games 1-21. This is definitely still a terrifying season on the Wiggins front.


Yeah, I put that in there, because well he continues to under perform his potential, and at some point we can all declare he is who we know him to be and not what his potential would have us wish he was.
   2531. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5604655)
I'm not sure what to make of NY's approach. They want to win, I get it. But I would love to have seen them go with Frank N in the OTs. He needs experience. I don't really care about Ws and Ls all that much, and I'm not sure why they care about Jack getting so much run.

I've been wondering about this, too. Are they trying to build the trade value of Jack/Beasley? I really can't see them making the playoffs, so I don't get it.
   2532. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5604658)
Yeah, I put that in there, because well he continues to under perform his potential, and at some point we can all declare he is who we know him to be and not what his potential would have us wish he was.

I think I've quit him several times but he always pulls me back in. I was just looking at DeRozan numbers, an oft-cited comparison, and while DeRozan took much longer than one would like to get there, he's showing the path to pretty serious mid career improvement.
   2533. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 11, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5604678)
I think David Locke's take on Wiggins is right. Wolves had to sign him to an extension because he has so much potential, but now they should be looking to trade him for good solid players signed at a reasonable cost to fit around KAT and Butler (like a legit 3&D guy good enough to start). And while the trade will probably be ripped for getting back no potential stars, it will end up working out really well for the Wolves.
   2534. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 11, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5604710)
Butler was already a part of this team when expectations were running high at the beginning of the year. Then those expectation were largely dashed. Remember comments about how terrible Wiggins was? How Thibs was largely obsolete and the league had passed him by? The young kids were not learning to play defense, especially Towns, and that plus the insane minutes were doom?

I remember those sorts of comments from a variety of places, and to be fair early in the season things were looking dismal (not by normal Wolves standards, but by expectations). I just thought maybe, in light of the fairly amazing turn around in fortunes lately, we could walk back some of the earlier pessimism.

i was mostly reacting to the part of your post that treated the addition of jimmy butler like it was insignificant to the wolves improvement:
So the Wolves handled OKC fairly easily and have won the season series against them. As good as they are playing right now, it feels like this version of the team is the one that got people so excited for their future the last couple of years.

I always said I would judge Thibs after this year was done, because changing the culture, getting the kids to truly buy into his scheme and also getting his guys was going to take time, but I admit I am more optimistic than I have been since before the season started
.

Yes, STIGGLES, Wolves fans should temper their responses to positive developments much as 76ers fans do.
getting jimmy butler wasn't just a positive development, it was one of the biggest moves in the last 10 years.

   2535. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 11, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5604712)
I didn't see Moses post it so I'm temporarily removing my self imposed ban to post this clip of Lauri from last night.

That one had me shouting. Maybe the best in game Bulls dunk since "What are you doing Dragic" in 2011. The awesome part is you could tell Lauri was feeling really frisky (he loves the KP matchup) and as he was going around Dougie I started to think "is he really going to try and take off and cram this on Kanter" -- and he did! He's missed 2-3 one handed slams like this one under similar circumstances so it was nice to see.

He did tire late and KP was blocking him left and right but what a fun matchup.
   2536. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2018 at 01:06 PM (#5604721)
i was mostly reacting to the part of your post that treated the addition of jimmy butler like it was insignificant to the wolves improvement:


That is an ... interesting reading of what I wrote. Perhaps I was not clear. Jimmy getting got was part of the expectations going into the season. He wasn't acquired mid-season after all. Butler has been playing great, but he is a great player his performance on the court has been both exceptional and expected.

I wasn't detailing the exact reason for their success (in which case Butler would have figured more prominently), but rather suggesting earlier expectations for the Wolves are now being fulfilled, at least in part.
   2537. JC in DC Posted: January 11, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5604724)
Bulls fans: I've watched a lot of Doug McDermott now and concluded something. He's not very good.
   2538. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 11, 2018 at 01:29 PM (#5604741)
Adam Silver is a spoilsport:

“Should there be a public selection?” he said to NBATV. “Yes, it would be more fun if we had that kind of draft. On the other hand, I recognize that in picking a team to perform in the here and now, it’s a little different than drafting. There was a sense from the players that it put them in an impossible position, where they’re picking one player over another – in part, not because they necessarily think that player is better than another player, maybe because they have a personal relationship with the player ... Invariably, if they just did it as a pure draft, guys would say, 'Oh, I can't believe such and such was selected before that player'...

“The goal was to improve the All-Star Game, not put a cherry on top of the cake.”


A number of players, including LeBron, are publicly for televising it. Hell, that would definitely draw higher ratings that at least the celebrity game, and maybe parts of the Saturday night stuff.
   2539. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 11, 2018 at 01:30 PM (#5604743)
I didn't see Moses post it so I'm temporarily removing my self imposed ban to post this clip of Lauri from last night.

Fixed my broken link, but that's what I meant to link.
   2540. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 11, 2018 at 01:47 PM (#5604763)
   2541. JC in DC Posted: January 11, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5604776)
If you're a Philly fan, you keep your eyes on Embiid's form and sleep well.
   2542. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 11, 2018 at 02:01 PM (#5604779)
Adam Silver is a spoilsport:

he kinda has a point. letting the players draft the teams is likely to be problematic, even if it doesn't result in hilariously lopsided rosters.

which is why one team should be drafted by stat heads and the other should be drafted by crotchety former players. pelton, pomeroy and hollinger on one side; chris dudley, rick mahorn and john starks on the other.
   2543. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 11, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5604781)
If you're a Philly fan, you keep your eyes on Embiid's form and sleep well.
he's a game time decision
   2544. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 11, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5604800)
I think it's pretty dumb to pick all star teams this way and not televise the draft. A live all star draft is a narrative factory for the NBA.
   2545. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5604805)
What's the I'm-too-lazy-version-to-google version of how this works. I'm mildly confused because we're still voting for starters, right?
   2546. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 11, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5604808)
What's the I'm-too-lazy-version-to-google version of how this works. I'm mildly confused because we're still voting for starters, right?

The fan vote is only 50% of what determines starters. It's the Zaza Pachulia rule.
   2547. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5604814)
But I thought the leading vote-getters were picking their teams from among the players voted by the fans/coaches whoever. So 12 all stars selected per conference as usual, but then leading vote getters vote from among them for their respective teams?
   2548. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 11, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5604817)
But I thought the leading vote-getters were picking their teams from among the players voted by the fans/coaches whoever. So 12 all stars selected per conference as usual, but then leading vote getters vote from among them for their respective teams?

I think that's right.
   2549. Booey Posted: January 11, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5604835)
You can make whatever tweaks to the All Star game you want and it won't make a damn bit of difference if the players simply aren't interested in playing hard and competing any more. Everyone just stands there and takes turns dunking or shooting wide open 3's. It's the bastard lovechild of the dunk contest and the 3-pt contest's unnatural union. Switching who ends up on what team or whatever won't fix that.

Just come up with some motivation to encourage the players to care and start playing actual basketball again. Anything less is just pointless.
   2550. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 11, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5604837)
Speaking of the fan vote, if voting ended today the lineups would be as follows:

EC

F James
F Giannis
F Embiid
G Irving
G DeRozan

WC

F Durant
F Davis
F Green
G Curry
G Harden

James and Curry are the captains as of now.
   2551. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 11, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5604840)
Just come up with some motivation to encourage the players to care and start playing actual basketball again.

As a Warriors fan, I'm cool with everyone just going through the motions. Don't get hurt guys! Especially this year when everyone seems like their bones and sinews have become tofu.
   2552. Booey Posted: January 11, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5604848)
As a Warriors fan, I'm cool with everyone just going through the motions. Don't get hurt guys!


Then just scrap it altogether. We already have a dunk contest AND a 3-pt contest. No need to combine them.

I watched last year for the first time in years (because the Jazz had an All Star for the 1st time since 2011), and it was flat out painful to sit through. I used to love the AS game.

P.S. - GOML
   2553. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 11, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5604850)
Then just scrap it altogether.

I'm cool with that. I haven't watched the actual game in years.
   2554. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5604868)
I'm cool with that. I haven't watched the actual game in years.


I can't remember the last time I watched, but I think Michael Jordan was on the team.
   2555. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 11, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5604893)
I like the process of picking the teams more than the game, just like I enjoy drafting a fantasy baseball team more than I do actually playing fantasy baseball.
   2556. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: January 11, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5604902)
Simmons is doing a really good job using his size against Kyrie.
   2557. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 11, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5604911)
Ben Simmons with 2, count 'em, 2, turnaround jumpers in the 1st half!

Maybe he can teach Markelle Fultz how to shoot.
   2558. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5604966)
I'm not watching but wow, this one turned around pretty quickly.
   2559. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 11, 2018 at 05:11 PM (#5604968)
soviet 5v5 MMA, who wins:
terry rozier, marcus smart, jayson tatum, marcus morris, daniel thies
or
ben simmons, jj redick, robert covington, dario saric, joel embiid


   2560. MHS Posted: January 11, 2018 at 05:17 PM (#5604978)
Ah, I want no park of Marcus Morris. Terrifying human being.

God, Celtics are savaging the 76'ers.

   2561. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 11, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5604979)
Ben Simmons with 2, count 'em, 2, turnaround jumpers in the 1st half!

Maybe he can teach Markelle Fultz how to shoot.
every time someone brings up simmons or fultz learning how to shoot, i'm gonna link this:

“You know how I learned to shoot?” Embiid says. “I watched white people. Just regular white people. They really put their elbow in and finish up top. You can find videos of them online.”
   2562. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: January 11, 2018 at 05:37 PM (#5604998)
this one turned around pretty quickly


I was only half watching, because I am in theory (and a little bit in practice) getting work done right now, but the Celtics started forcing a bunch of turnovers and hitting a few shots at the same time.

Pursuant to those turnovers, Marcus Smart is really something else to watch when he's cooking on defense. He's not 6'7" and he doesn't have lightning-fast feet like some smaller defensive specialists, but he's as tough and spatially sharp a perimeter defender as I've ever seen (Tony Allen was at the same level, I'd say; Iguodala has better size and athleticism but doesn't have quite the same instincts). He's incredibly good at getting and staying in the way of his man, whatever sort of move they try pulling.
   2563. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 11, 2018 at 05:38 PM (#5605000)
Ah, I want no park of Marcus Morris. Terrifying human being.
saric is a dark horse. i wouldn't fight any of those yugoslavians. they've seen things.

the list of NBA players not to #### with definitely includes both morris brothers, james johnson and bobby portis. spot number 5 is a toss up between david west, pero antic, taj gibson, steven adams, isaiah thomas, tyreke evans, kyle lowry and others.

come to think of it, i might take philly versus the world. lowry/waiters/tyreke/marcus/markieff would be tough to beat.
   2564. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 11, 2018 at 05:45 PM (#5605010)
I was only half watching, because I am in theory (and a little bit in practice) getting work done right now, but the Celtics started forcing a bunch of turnovers and hitting a few shots at the same time.
turnovers lead to fast breaks, which lead to made shots. it's not a coincidence.

the first half was a glimpse of what the sixers can be if they stop turning the ball over.
the second half is what they are when they can't stop vomiting all over themselves.


the celtics play defense like the 77 falcons. the league may want to crack down on that at some point.
   2565. PJ Martinez Posted: January 11, 2018 at 07:18 PM (#5605064)
2561: One of the all-time great NBA quotes.
   2566. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 11, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5605077)
every time someone brings up simmons or fultz learning how to shoot, i'm gonna link this:


Yeah, yeah, I know it's early. And I was actually encouraged by Simmons' shots, he had nice form and touch on them.

Fultz was supposed to be a shooter already so bad form is very disturbing.

I also have an overarching feeling of doom about "The Process". My fears are that Embiid has 200 games in his tank before falling apart and the Sixers wasted 2 valuable draft picks to get a bust in Fultz and will end up with Simmons playing the Andre Iguodala role of years past with Dario Saric playing the Thad Young role.
   2567. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: January 11, 2018 at 08:34 PM (#5605109)
Not a lot of defence being played in Toronto tonight.
   2568. tshipman Posted: January 11, 2018 at 08:47 PM (#5605122)
Interesting conversation on Dunc'd On that I am curious about here:

Who says no?


CLEVELAND: Wesley Matthews, Nerlens Noel
DALLAS: JR Smith, Channing Frye, Cleveland's 2018 first round pick
   2569. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 11, 2018 at 08:53 PM (#5605129)
Everything for the Raptors is at the rim or wide open from 3. The Cavs look like trash. That said, they seem to go through these stretches every season and then walk through the playoffs. Poeltl and VanVleet are especially killing the Cavs. I think Poeltl murdered Jeff Green.
   2570. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 08:54 PM (#5605131)
God Cleveland is just routinely so unimpressive. If they waltz to the finals again I think it'll be Bad for the League (insert TM symbol), and I hope LeBron goes elsewhere in the summer.
   2571. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: January 11, 2018 at 08:55 PM (#5605132)
I mean, if you're Toronto, you have the legs to just run at Cleveland. And it's clearly working out.
   2572. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 08:56 PM (#5605134)
CLEVELAND: Wesley Matthews, Nerlens Noel
DALLAS: JR Smith, Channing Frye, Cleveland's 2018 first round pick

Dallas certainly shouldn't say no. I imagine Cleveland does out of fear of LeBron leaving and missing out on that lottery pick, but that would be an interesting win now move for them.
   2573. PJ Martinez Posted: January 11, 2018 at 08:59 PM (#5605136)
I imagine Cleveland does out of fear of LeBron leaving and missing out on that lottery pick

But it wouldn't be a lottery pick, right? The Cavs' own first-rounder will likely be in the twenties somewhere.
   2574. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 09:02 PM (#5605137)
But it wouldn't be a lottery pick, right? The Cavs' own first-rounder will likely be in the twenties somewhere.

D'oh my fault, I mentally made that the Brooklyn pick. Oh I do that all day for Cleveland, JR's contract is horrible. I don't do that for Dallas anymore, though.

EDIT: Cleveland seriously owes 40ish million per year for two more years to JR/Thompson/Korver after this season, which is hilarious.
   2575. JC in DC Posted: January 11, 2018 at 09:21 PM (#5605149)
Man, Cleveland looks awful again. Their defense is just atrocious. Toronto is getting open looks all game long, and killing them on the glass.

LBJ in full no-attack, no-defend mode. The rest of the team checked out except Thomas. Even Reggie Miller see it.
   2576. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 11, 2018 at 09:21 PM (#5605152)
IT is really laboring. Lue may want to think about just giving him the rest of the game off.
   2577. tshipman Posted: January 11, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5605160)
Oh I do that all day for Cleveland, JR's contract is horrible. I don't do that for Dallas anymore, though.


Wes Matthews has this year, next year and a player option for the year after, all for 18 million/year.
   2578. JJ1986 Posted: January 11, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5605169)
Dallas specifically seems like a team with no use for late first-rounders. Between Josh Howard and Dennis Smith, they've had 2 first-rounders suit up for them (Maurice Ager and Justin Anderson) and neither made it 2 years.
   2579. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2018 at 09:49 PM (#5605173)
Wes Matthews has this year, next year and a player option for the year after, all for 18 million/year.

Looks like this is the last guaranteed year, and next year is the player option. So neither looks good, but that's one fewer than JR. That's not worth a late 1st if I'm Dallas (though honestly Cleveland's pick could be like 21, 22, which maybe changes the math a bit).
   2580. tshipman Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:05 PM (#5605201)
Looks like this is the last guaranteed year, and next year is the player option. So neither looks good, but that's one fewer than JR. That's not worth a late 1st if I'm Dallas (though honestly Cleveland's pick could be like 21, 22, which maybe changes the math a bit).


Blargh, you're right on Matthews' contract. I misread it.

I still think it's worth doing for Dallas--the price of 1st round picks has gone up significantly.
   2581. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 11, 2018 at 11:18 PM (#5605207)
am i the only one who had no idea this happened:
Following a medical leave of more than a month, the Charlotte Hornets’ Steve Clifford will return to coach his team starting Tuesday at practice, the Hornets announced Thursday night.

The Observer first reported Thursday that Clifford has been cleared to return to work. He has been out since Dec. 4, when associate head coach Steve Silas took over.


damn, NBA thread. you've changed.
   2582. MHS Posted: January 12, 2018 at 08:59 AM (#5605297)
I still think it's worth doing for Dallas--the price of 1st round picks has gone up significantly.


I suspect the value of cap space will sky rocket. If you want to dump salary I expect it will be very costly, since their is so little cap space out their.

   2583. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 12, 2018 at 09:11 AM (#5605298)
I also have an overarching feeling of doom about "The Process". My fears are that Embiid has 200 games in his tank before falling apart and the Sixers wasted 2 valuable draft picks to get a bust in Fultz and will end up with Simmons playing the Andre Iguodala role of years past with Dario Saric playing the Thad Young role.


Embiid of course in the Andrew Bynum role.

Or is Covington Thad Young, and Saric Nikola Vucevic? Now we just need Fultz to be as good as Jrue Holiday and we'll have something.
   2584. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 12, 2018 at 09:16 AM (#5605300)
I suspect the value of cap space will sky rocket. If you want to dump salary I expect it will be very costly, since their is so little cap space out their.


Economics is often very simple and large parts of it are reduced to supply and demand. When the supply of a resource - like cap space - decreases then most of the time the cost of that resource goes up. Similarly when seemingly every team had a large amount of cap space a while back the cost of it dropped. Weirdly this still seems to puzzle and amaze some teams each year.
   2585. jmurph Posted: January 12, 2018 at 09:34 AM (#5605311)
I suspect the value of cap space will sky rocket. If you want to dump salary I expect it will be very costly, since their is so little cap space out their.

Yeah 100% agree with this, which is why tship's proposed deal would definitely make sense for Cleveland (not to mention they'd at least theoretically be getting some interior defense in Noel in that deal).
   2586. puck Posted: January 12, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5605364)
Magazines are so old fashioned, but I still get SI out of family tradition, I guess. Whenever there's a good story in there I can never find the link in SI's site. How are you supposed to share a magazine story, I guess I have to make doctor's appointments for you.

Anyway, there's an article in it on Sarunas Marciulanis, who I know is a favorite of several folks here.

That time, and the emergence of the Lithuanian team after the breakup of the Soviet Union, was just such a great story. I never mind revisiting that. His story is supposed to be part of a series about foreign players and the rest of it is supposed to continue on the website.


I'm sure someone has better google skills or will see it come across a twitter feed or something, look out for it.
   2587. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 12, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5605365)
Embiid of course in the Andrew Bynum role.

Or is Covington Thad Young, and Saric Nikola Vucevic? Now we just need Fultz to be as good as Jrue Holiday and we'll have something.


Ugh, you are not making me feel any better. ;(
   2588. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: January 12, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5605372)
I for one am a huge Sarunas Marciulionis fan. I'll look for it.
   2589. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 12, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5605388)
am i the only one who had no idea this happened:

I could have sworn I posted about it here, he left right around the time the played the Bulls. I just don't know if anyone's said anything about the Horcats in the thread in the month or so since then.
   2590. jmurph Posted: January 12, 2018 at 12:28 PM (#5605448)
Magazines are so old fashioned, but I still get SI out of family tradition, I guess. Whenever there's a good story in there I can never find the link in SI's site. How are you supposed to share a magazine story, I guess I have to make doctor's appointments for you.

A. that's a funny line and B. you're not kidding. Google turns up several Sports Illustrated articles from the 90s that mention Sarunas, but not the new one you're mentioning. Nothing on their site that I can find.
   2591. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: January 12, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5605526)
oh no. oh, god no.
I don’t think 9/11 was an inside job, but there’s some things I question, but I question a lot of things.
I’m not entirely convinced that dinosaurs existed. I’m not. I’ve come across some weird websites in my Google searches

Kyrie: They always say, “Truth is in plain sight.” Have you seen the new Taco Bell commercial?

J.J.: The Illuminati are taunting us.

Kyrie: [...] I’ve been seeing the all-seeing eye for about six months now.

spiritual alchemy is something I’m huge in
   2592. tshipman Posted: January 12, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5605556)
Interesting thing from the JJ Reddick podcast that Leviski referenced:

@JJRedick explains on his podcast to @KyrieIrving why last night’s game was a tale of 2 halves: “One rim was so f-ing crooked. The one [Boston] shot @ in the 1st half & the one [Philly] shot @ in the 2nd half."
"Crooked" rim: BOS–40.4%, PHI–36.6%
Other rim: BOS–57.1%, PHI–56.1%


Slightly plausible given the location!
   2593. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: January 12, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5605606)
Bobby Karalla @bobbykaralla 1h1 hour ago

Rick Carlisle on the reason behind the Lakers' three-game win streak: "Great coaching."
   2594. JC in DC Posted: January 12, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5605623)
I was waiting for that, Moses. You probably saw Lauri is #1 on the rookie rankings currently, for whatever that's worth. So many good subplots in the NBA right now.
   2595. maccoach57 Posted: January 12, 2018 at 06:14 PM (#5605730)
Boston: I think I should comment here that I need to give Ainge and Stevens some credit for Boston's record. I have always thought that they are good at their jobs, but I thought that Ainge would be better off with Ball and Butler, and that Stevens has been overhyped. Long way to go, but I may have been very wrong.

Walton: I have defended Walton on Lakers boards, and Popovich weighed in last night backing him strongly as well as a slap at LaVar Ball. I see no reason to think that Walton is going to be a great coach, but I don't see him as a problem, either.

Sacto: I always check opponents' basic metrics before they play the Lakers. I had not realized that Sacto is last in both ORTG and DRTG as per Bask Ref and has a 10-31 PYTH, which is five full games worse than yet another weak Lakers team.
   2596. PJ Martinez Posted: January 12, 2018 at 09:51 PM (#5605815)
Spencer Dinwiddie is a fun player to root for.
   2597. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 13, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5606040)
I haven't kept up with the Lakers this year like I had in the past (too busy trying to restart Angels-related stuff) but I did get a chance to watch all of the second half and overtime of today's game. I'm really coming around on Ball. The early season panic over him being a flop is over for me; he's definitely an NBA-quality PG. He had another bad shooting tonight (and had his sixth straight game without a free throw, yikes), but those nights are getting rarer. In his first 20 games, he shot 31% overall and 25% from the arc. In the next 15 games before tonight, he's at 42.3% and 37.8%, and he's averaging 12/7/7 over that stretch. That's pretty solid. He still looks like he's looking for something at times, but the Lakers are very obviously better with him on the floor.
   2598. PJ Martinez Posted: January 13, 2018 at 08:34 PM (#5606118)
I really hope someone beats the Warriors. I don't think anyone will, mind you, but I'll be rooting for every team that faces them in the playoffs.
   2599. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 13, 2018 at 08:37 PM (#5606121)
Warriors playing some of the best basketball I've ever seen in this first half. Raptors must be wondering what's hit them after that Cavs blowout. 81-54 at the half. Dubs shot 71% from the field, 22 assists and 1 turnover. This is the kind of game where they'll take their foot off the gas in the second half and let the Raptors back in it but that first half was perfect.
   2600. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: January 13, 2018 at 08:39 PM (#5606123)
I really hope someone beats the Warriors. I don't think anyone will, mind you, but I'll be rooting for every team that faces them in the playoffs.

Meh. Every bench in the NBA acts a fool when times are good.
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