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Wednesday, October 11, 2017

OT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, some of whom still care about baseball playoffs, but all of whom agree the Celtics gave up too much for Irving.

Here’s the thread’s top 50 players ranking.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 11, 2017 at 11:21 AM | 3977 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   3601. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:01 PM (#5622017)
i love getting crowder for hood. hood's defense is terrible and he's a type of player that has historically been overpaid. wonder if they move favors, tho.
   3602. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5622022)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine 4m4 minutes ago

Strong expectation in Cleveland that one of the Cavaliers’ soon-to-open roster spots — barring any more trades — will be filled by Kendrick Perkins


!!!!
   3603. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5622024)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 12s13 seconds ago

Denver, New York and Dallas agreed on a three-way deal, league sources tell ESPN. Mudiay to Knicks; Devin Harris to Denver and Doug McDermott to Dallas.
   3604. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5622025)
Someone has to keep those mother****ing mother****ers in line. It ain't going to be Ty Lue.
   3605. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5622026)
kwame brown is also available.
   3606. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5622028)
Love that trade for the Knicks. Mark Cuban gets a Dollar General Chandler Parsons to go clubbing with?
   3607. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:11 PM (#5622031)
perkins: whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
he just "retired" from the g-league yesterday (i think). supposedly had nba interest, which i had scoffed at.
   3608. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:11 PM (#5622032)
Tyreke Evans is still out there. I'd take him on the Warriors but we got nothing to trade.
   3609. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5622036)
mudiay is terrible from a +/- perspective, below replacement level. still just 21 and can hit threes, though --- could turn into a decent offguard?
   3610. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5622037)
mudiay is terrible from a +/- perspective, below replacement level. still just 21 and can hit threes, though --- could turn into a decent offguard?

I just think taking a chance on guys like Mudiay is what the Knicks should be doing now.
   3611. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5622038)
Evans is really good this year but a bad fit for GS - ball stopper.
--
3610: agree, shooty.
--
bruno to SAC for malachi richardson
   3612. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5622039)
I just think taking a chance on guys like Mudiay is what the Knicks should be doing now.

Yeah, exactly. Who is he going to be stealing minutes from? Why worry about winning games? Can't hurt, at all.
   3613. jmurph Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5622040)
Evans is really good this year but a bad fit for GS - ball stopper.

Boston could use a ballstopper off the bench so it stops moving to the guys that can't score...
   3614. Tin Angel Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5622041)
Why would they not just hire Perkins as an assistant or whatever instead of using a roster spot on him? Is he going to glower them into playing defense?
   3615. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5622042)
mudiay is terrible from a +/- perspective, below replacement level. still just 21 and can hit threes, though --- could turn into a decent offguard?
him and ntilikina are carbon copies.

they'll have 30 games to work out some kinks between them. i don't think it'll work, but it might. they didn't lose anything of value, so it's a good move.
   3616. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5622043)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 55s55 seconds ago

Portland has traded Noah Vonleh and cash to Chicago for the rights to Milocan Rakovic, league sources tell ESPN.
   3617. jmurph Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5622044)
Nice move for the Bulls, I like taking a look at Vonleh.
   3618. Booey Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5622045)
i love getting crowder for hood.


I would have loved getting 2017 Crowder for Hood...

Jazz need offense more than more defense, IMO. I know they've been scoring just fine lately (excepting last night), but I wouldn't bet on Ricky Rubio putting up 20+ points on good efficiency forever.
   3619. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:27 PM (#5622048)
him and ntilikina are carbon copies.
NO.

The 2017 Jazz are less important than the 2018 Jazz.
   3620. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5622049)
dante cunningham to bkn for rashad vaughn
   3621. jmurph Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5622052)
I'm beginning to think that Dante Cunningham exists only as a name in transaction news updates.
   3622. JJ1986 Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5622054)
dante cunningham to bkn for rashad vaughn
I guess New Orleans gets a little room under the tax from this, but not sure how it helps either team other than that.
   3623. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:33 PM (#5622059)
dante cunningham to bkn for rashad vaughn

Least exciting trade ever?
   3624. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:34 PM (#5622060)
Least exciting trade ever?

They went through the Wolves deadline deal history during the game last night. So ... no.
   3625. KronicFatigue Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5622063)
I don't follow basketball (other than reading about the Knicks for Schadenfreude purposes). What's the deal with Isiah Thomas? He was good on Boston, traded to Cavs, injured, and then....what? bad? couldn't fit in? I keep reading about Cavs are happy to get rid of him, but I don't know why.

Sorry for the ignorance.
   3626. Paul d mobile Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5622066)
The Raptors traded Bruno! (And the Kings are going to cut him).
   3627. jmurph Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:38 PM (#5622070)
You pretty much got it KronicFatigue. Injured and also a bad fit (it turns out- this wasn't necessarily foreseen). Needs a lot of the ball and a creative offense tailored around him, which obviously wouldn't work in Cleveland. It's possible he could have been useful as a 20-25 minute bench guy for them? But he's clearly still recovering and might not have the personality for that right now.
   3628. TFTIO is a very stable genius Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:39 PM (#5622071)
Isaiah (note the extra 'a') was known to be injured before the trade with Cleveland, only just got back into playing shape, has been terrible, and was dumped on LA. It's almost impossible to draw any useful conclusions from his time in Cleveland, because that team is in utter chaos.
   3629. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:39 PM (#5622072)
I don't follow basketball (other than reading about the Knicks for Schadenfreude purposes). What's the deal with Isiah Thomas? He was good on Boston, traded to Cavs, injured, and then....what? bad? couldn't fit in? I keep reading about Cavs are happy to get rid of him, but I don't know why.

I think he's still hurt and the Cavs were the worst possible situation for him. I feel bad for him. He was a warrior for the Celts last season and it's done him nothing but harm.
   3630. tshipman Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:45 PM (#5622078)
I think the Crowder's game might be suffering because he's in such a shitass chaotic environment. I'll be interested in seeing how he does in UTA.


Yup. He probably has a dead-cat, DeMarre Carroll type of bounce in him.

I think they'll be better on the perimeter but they'll still be the worst team in the league at defending the paint. A net gain on defense, I think.


Clarkson is awful defensively. If they plan on playing him heavy minutes, they will get worse.

Nance is a good defender, but doesn't protect the rim.

I guess Cleveland's best hope is that they got rid of the guys who were absolutely tanking them: Crowder and Thomas. Of course, they also got rid of two of their best players by on/off in Frye and Wade.
   3631. aberg Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5622082)
Oh god, Thibs is going to sign Rose, Marc Stein says.


He's a better 3rd string PG than washed up Aaron Brooks. He's a worse backup PG than Tyus. Hopefully he gets slotted in as such.
   3632. jmurph Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5622084)
Ugh, Isaiah (through his agent) already making noise about not being willing to come off the bench in LA. I do feel for him- he hasn't wanted any of this and I get being stubborn about it all, to some degree- but it seems like he's costing himself more future $$$ every day.
   3633. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5622086)
Isaiah (note the extra 'a') was known to be injured before the trade with Cleveland, only just got back into playing shape, has been terrible, and was dumped on LA. It's almost impossible to draw any useful conclusions from his time in Cleveland, because that team is in utter chaos.

i don't think the extent of thomas's injury was known until after the trade was made. CLE could have, and probably should have, called the deal off instead of settling for an additional 2022 2nd round pick, but bad organizations make bad decisions.

   3634. jmurph Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:48 PM (#5622088)
He's a better 3rd string PG than washed up Aaron Brooks. He's a worse backup PG than Tyus. Hopefully he gets slotted in as such.

He's strongly in the running for worst player in the entire league. Having him on the roster at all just seems like a bad idea to me.
   3635. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5622089)
Ugh, Isaiah (through his agent) already making noise about not being willing to come off the bench in LA. I do feel for him- he hasn't wanted any of this and I get being stubborn about it all, to some degree- but it seems like he's costing himself more future $$$ every day.

FWIW, that's a big part of the reason he's so underpaid to begin with.
   3636. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5622090)
I think they'll be better on the perimeter but they'll still be the worst team in the league at defending the paint. A net gain on defense, I think.

It's funny, I think they'll be better in the paint but they'll still be the worst team in the league at defending the perimeter.

Gets them to basically the same spot though. Wade, Frye, and Shumpert were 3 of their better defenders this year. Of the guys they got back, only Nance is a plus. Losing IT is addition by subtraction on that end of course, but unless Hill is rejuvenated their perimeter D should remain hideous. Apart from the All-Star break I think they only have >1 day off between games once (April 7-8), so it'll be interesting to see if they can find some way to gel after swapping out half the rotation.

Sounds like IT might get bought out because he demands to be a starter. If true, he's probably hurting himself in free agency even more. EDIT - coke to jmurph.
   3637. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5622093)
Clarkson is awful defensively. If they plan on playing him heavy minutes, they will get worse.

He's not worse than IT! Hill is a pretty good defender, or has been before he got Kings-itis.
   3638. aberg Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5622094)
Clarkson is awful defensively. If they plan on playing him heavy minutes, they will get worse.


The only possible upside is that he's taking IT's minutes, who is one of a small handful of perimeter defenders who is actually worse.

I guess Cleveland's best hope is that they got rid of the guys who were absolutely tanking them: Crowder and Thomas.


And JR Smith, though he might be awakening from his slumber with some hot 3pt shooting lately.
   3639. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5622095)
Denver, New York and Dallas agreed on a three-way deal, league sources tell ESPN. Mudiay to Knicks; Devin Harris to Denver and Doug McDermott to Dallas.


TIL Devin Harris is still in the league.

Hubie Brown called the Cavs-Wolves game last night and was hammering the point that Cleveland had 8 new guys since last season. Well ow they've got 4 in one day, and the day ain't over yet.
   3640. Tin Angel Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5622097)
Warriors supposedly interested in Joe Johnson or Channing Frye if they get bought out/released.
   3641. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5622098)
It's funny, I think they'll be better in the paint but they'll still be the worst team in the league at defending the perimeter.

Just curious, but how will they be better defending the paint? I'll agree to disagree on their perimeter D but not without noting that IT's defensive #'s this year were the worst for any player in the last 20 years.
   3642. aberg Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5622099)
He's strongly in the running for worst player in the entire league. Having him on the roster at all just seems like a bad idea to me.


Spoken like someone who hasn't seen 2018 Aaron Brooks miss the rim on all of his layups.
   3643. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5622100)
Warriors supposedly interested in Joe Johnson or Channing Frye if they get bought out/released.

I'll take some Channing Fry, please.
   3644. jmurph Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5622102)
Spoken like someone who hasn't seen 2018 Aaron Brooks miss the rim on all of his layups.

Ha! Just let, I don't know, Dieng bring the ball up when Tyus/Teague are out. Aldrich. The mascot. Anyone.
   3645. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5622103)
Elfrid Payton to the Suns for a second.
   3646. Rally Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5622104)
I don't follow basketball (other than reading about the Knicks for Schadenfreude purposes). What's the deal with Isiah Thomas? He was good on Boston, traded to Cavs, injured, and then....what? bad? couldn't fit in? I keep reading about Cavs are happy to get rid of him, but I don't know why.


I have to wonder if he's fully recovered from the injury, maybe he just isn't the same player he used to be. He may be a guy who needs to dominate the ball to be effective. That isn't happening with Lebron on the same team.

I don't have confidence that the people in charge of Cleveland know what they are doing, but what they started with was just not working. They were playing as bad as you can expect a team to play, given that they had the best player in the world. While a 31-22 record isn't bad, a 48 win pace, they are lucky to be there. The Cavs have been outscored on the season.

It's not as bad as Chamberlain's 1964-65 Warriors, but the point is in the same range as Michael Jordan's Bulls, pre-Pippen.

So that being said, instantly replacing the whole team around Lebron can't make things worse. And they might get really lucky and find out it made things better.

They also need a new coach but I don't know who they could pick up mid-season to turn things around. One thing a top-tier coach can do in the NBA is get the team to play defense. There are coaches who can do this even with personnel that doesn't look so good. Lue is definitely not one of those coaches.

Coaches have an aging curve just like everyone else, I don't think bringing Phil Jackson back to the sidelines would do any good at this point. I think I'd reach out to a veteran coach with a long career, one who in the past has shown himself to be one of those guys who can kick a team into defensive gear (Yes, it's a gamble as to whether he could do it with this squad). While he has had success, he has never won a ring. Coaching this team would be a great story line of taking things full circle. He would be returning to the franchise that gave him his first head coaching job more than 30 years ago, in the same season that a certain GOAT was born. George Karl.

I don't know if it would work, but it would be entertaining and I think worth a try.
   3647. jmurph Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5622105)
In hilarious late breaking news, Phoenix has acquired yet another not-really-a-point-guard in Elfrid Payton. They can't help themselves.
   3648. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5622109)
In hilarious late breaking news, Phoenix has acquired yet another not-really-a-point-guard in Elfrid Payton. They can't help themselves.
the sixers should have gotten that.
   3649. tshipman Posted: February 08, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5622110)
Elfrid Payton to the Suns for a second.


!
Payton is not a great player, but that really seems like they're selling low. Payton is an average starting PG or a way above average bench PG. That's worth more than a 2nd.

So that being said, instantly replacing the whole team around Lebron can't make things worse.


I think this is a false assumption, given that LeBron has been a big part of the problem. The only guys left on the roster who have been net positives are Cedi Osman and Kyle Korver.
   3650. aberg Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:00 PM (#5622111)
I have to wonder if he's fully recovered from the injury, maybe he just isn't the same player he used to be. He may be a guy who needs to dominate the ball to be effective. That isn't happening with Lebron on the same team.


Hubie said last night that IT told him before the game that he's currently 75-80% healthy.
   3651. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5622114)
Payton is not a great player, but that really seems like they're selling low. Payton is an average starting PG or a way above average bench PG. That's worth more than a 2nd.

Honestly, I think the Magic did this trade to make sure they don't commit to Payton. This is a drunk pouring his last bottle of booze down the drain.
   3652. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:02 PM (#5622116)
Honestly, I think the Magic did this trade to make sure they don't commit to Payton. This is a drunk pouring his last bottle of booze down the drain.
and yet...aaron gordon remains.

for now.
   3653. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5622119)
Just curious, but how will they be better defending the paint? I'll agree to disagree on their perimeter D but not without noting that IT's defensive #'s this year were the worst for any player in the last 20 years.

Nance. He's a better interior defender than Crowder/Frye have been. Probably won't move the needle too much though. I agreed that losing IT is a major plus defensively--he's literally THE WORST--but he just hasn't played many minutes this year. Wade and Shumpert combined have been on the court more than 3x as much, and they're actually above average defensively, unlike the perimeter players the Cavs picked up today.
   3654. tshipman Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5622126)
Nance. He's a better interior defender than Crowder/Frye have been. Probably won't move the needle too much though. I agreed that losing IT is a major plus defensively--he's literally THE WORST--but he just hasn't played many minutes this year. Wade and Shumpert combined have been on the court more than 3x as much, and they're actually above average defensively, unlike the perimeter players the Cavs picked up today.


Larry Nance is a winning player--he hustles, makes the extra pass and plays hard. He's also good for about 25 minutes per game. He's played 30 minutes all of 3 times this year.

Nance plays the same position as the Cavs best player--PF. He provides no shooting as well.

Love him, but I don't know that he really improves the defense except by getting rid of Jae Crowder.
   3655. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5622127)
CLE could have, and probably should have, called the deal off instead of settling for an additional 2022 2nd round pick, but bad organizations make bad decisions.


They never should have traded Kyrie, but good on Cleveland for realizing that IT was giving them nothing. What's their "crunch-time five" now? Hood, JR and Clarkson feel like they are all about the same level of player.
   3656. jmurph Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5622131)
What's their "crunch-time five" now? Hood, JR and Clarkson feel like they are all about the same level of player.

JR is in his second straight season of being absolutely terrible. He should probably play a lot less than he currently is.
   3657. tshipman Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:17 PM (#5622133)
What's their "crunch-time five" now? Hood, JR and Clarkson feel like they are all about the same level of player.


Love/LeBron/Hood/Hill/Clarkson?
Love/LeBron/Korver/Hood/Hill?

That's a terrible defensive unit, but should score points, I guess. LeBron + 4 shooters?

   3658. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5622135)
They also need a new coach but I don't know who they could pick up mid-season to turn things around. One thing a top-tier coach can do in the NBA is get the team to play defense.


That's funny, I know he and LeBron have beef, but I was daydreaming yesterday about Phil Jackson swooping in.



On that Payton deal: he's not an All-Star or anything, but I agree with tshipman that it still feels like selling low. He's improved every year in terms of WS/48 and BPM, and you're unlikely to get somebody of his quality picking in the 30s.
   3659. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5622143)
Looks like the Clippers are standing pat and the Grizzlies are going to keep Tyreke Evans.
   3660. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5622144)
Hawks also doing nothing. Picked up Sheldon Mac from the Wizards with the Wizards sending them cash, is all.
   3661. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5622147)
So, the only teams to send out 1st round picks were the Cavs, Pelicans and Pistons. The buy-out market is going to be nuts. Can't say enough about how great that deal is for the Lakers.
   3662. JC in DC Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5622151)
Wait - why is this a "great" deal for LA? I'm not saying it's a bad deal, or even not a good deal, but why is it "great?" I'm not seeing that.
   3663. tshipman Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5622153)
Wait - why is this a "great" deal for LA? I'm not saying it's a bad deal, or even not a good deal, but why is it "great?" I'm not seeing that.


Clarkson was not worth his contract--LAL wanted to give him away and had a hard time finding a taker.

So in essence, the deal was Nance for two expiring contracts and a 1st round pick.

That, plus getting off of Clarkson's money, frees up two max slots in the offseason.
   3664. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5622156)
What tshipman said. And doing it in a market where no one wanted to take on cash or give up picks. Really nice work by the Lakers.
   3665. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5622159)
Also, plenty of people were saying the Lakers would have to give up a first to get rid of Clarkson's deal.
   3666. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5622166)
Per Zach Lowe, Memphis turned down an offer of Mudiay and a second for Tyreke Evans.
   3667. aberg Posted: February 08, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5622172)
Hawks also doing nothing. Picked up Sheldon Mac from the Wizards with the Wizards sending them cash, is all.


Who is not, as it turns out, Shelvin Mack.
   3668. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5622180)
Count me among those who thinks the Lakers-Cavs deal is good for both teams, in large part because I'm much higher on Clarkson than nearly everyone else. There's no underselling how profoundly unathletic the Cavs were in their backcourt — or really, everywhere but where Lebron is. Clarkson and Nance can fly, and along with Hood, Lebron now has running mates who can actually run. Hill, Clarkson, and Hood can shoot, plus Hill and Clarkson can handle the ball. They won't play defense, but they weren't playing much anyways. They also get rid of the Isaiah distractions — a guy who has done nothing in Cleveland but not-quite-heal has no right to call out Kevin Love or Ty Lue or anyone else. Yeah, the contracts going forward will be problematic, but this is Cleveland's last shot at a ring in the Lebron era, and they can't waste it. I'm on board with this trade for Cleveland.

For the Lakers, of course, it's all about the contracts, and this trade is a home run. That extra pick is just sweet, sweet icing.

Larry Nance is a winning player--he hustles, makes the extra pass and plays hard. He's also good for about 25 minutes per game. He's played 30 minutes all of 3 times this year.
I like Nance a lot and agree with everything good written about him, but Kyle Kuzma took that job from him and was never going to give it back.
   3669. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5622181)
Who is not, as it turns out, Shelvin Mack.


Color me surprised!

   3670. The Good Face Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5622183)
Wait - why is this a "great" deal for LA? I'm not saying it's a bad deal, or even not a good deal, but why is it "great?" I'm not seeing that.


Pretty much what tshipman said. Nance is a solid bench PF, plays defense, good clubhouse dude, etc., but he can't shoot 3s or protect the rim, and his offensive game is limited. A nice player to have, but if you can trade him for a 1st round pick, a couple of expiring contracts, AND dump one of your bad contracts in the process, you do that every time.

Kyle Kuzma took that job from him and was never going to give it back.


Also this.
   3671. jmurph Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5622186)
Yeah, the contracts going forward will be problematic, but this is Cleveland's last shot at a ring in the Lebron era, and they can't waste it. I'm on board with this trade for Cleveland.

I think I mostly endorse this. I'm wondering what the cost would have been for Kemba/Batum? Othewise, not sure what other possibilities existed.
   3672. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5622192)
Oh god, Thibs is going to sign Rose, Marc Stein says.
watch out for a joakim noah buyout.
   3673. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:27 PM (#5622193)
I'm wondering what the cost would have been for Kemba/Batum?

I'm guessing the Nets pick+. Though enough people keep saying MJ doesn't want to deal Kemba.
   3674. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5622194)
watch out for a joakim noah buyout.

Honestly, a Deng buyout is more likely.

He's getting the gang back together!
   3675. tshipman Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5622197)
Honestly, a Deng buyout is more likely.


Deng + Cavs first rounder for nothing! WHO SAYS NO????
   3676. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5622199)
i think LAL's first move this offseason should be to sign clint capela to an offer sheet. that might force HOU to pick between him and paul/lebron before lebron is ready to commit, so HOU might just let him go for a future 2nd round pick and a ~15MM trade exception.


capela's only 23, so LAL would get his prime years. his skillset complements lonzo, ingram, hart and kuzma, and they'd still have caproom for george/cousins or 2019.
   3677. JJ1986 Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5622205)
You can sign offer sheets during the moratorium now, but they don't have to be matched until afterwards.
   3678. tshipman Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5622209)
Capela is a good target and would likely go for less than the max.

Probably would allow the Lakers to keep Randle, add Capela + one max player.
   3679. The Good Face Posted: February 08, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5622225)
Probably would allow the Lakers to keep Randle, add Capela + one max player.


Would they want both Randle and Capela? Neither one can shoot, and it's not like the rest of their lineup is full of snipers; playing both at the same time could kill spacing.
   3680. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 05:04 PM (#5622228)
You can sign offer sheets during the moratorium now, but they don't have to be matched until afterwards.
true, but i think teams only get 3 days to match, and lebron might not be willing to rush his decision to fit that timetable.

of course it's also possible that HOU would match the offer sheet and still try to get lebron. their new owner just spent 2 billion for the team, and he's one of those guys who loves to be in the spotlight, so he might be willing to go the ballmer/prokhorov route.
   3681. tshipman Posted: February 08, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5622233)
Would they want both Randle and Capela? Neither one can shoot, and it's not like the rest of their lineup is full of snipers; playing both at the same time could kill spacing.


Neither one can play 30 mpg. They could just work as a strict platoon. 15 million is a bit pricey for a backup big to be sure.

I dunno. Randle can pass a little, and you could imagine a lineup where you have some nifty big to big passes.

Alternatively, they could just let Randle walk and keep a 2 guard like KCP or sign someone like Rodney Hood to a sheet. Hell, they could even keep IT and play him and Lonzo together.
   3682. Manny Coon Posted: February 08, 2018 at 05:11 PM (#5622234)
Randle seems destined for a sort of Enes Kanter scoring bench big role. Kuzma is a fine PF to play with Capela. Even though he's older, I could also see them making a bid for DeAndre Jordan, similar to Capela but more durable and able to play more minutes.
   3683. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 08, 2018 at 05:12 PM (#5622237)
if they were all in, that BRK pick would be gone.


The Cavs couldn't trade both their first-round picks, though, right?
   3684. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 08, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5622259)
Alternatively, they could just let Randle walk and keep a 2 guard like KCP or sign someone like Rodney Hood to a sheet. Hell, they could even keep IT and play him and Lonzo together.
For what they want to do, the Lakers are going to have to let him walk — his cap hit is going to be too big otherwise. However, they didn't trade him, so who knows?
   3685. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 08, 2018 at 06:12 PM (#5622283)
Reporter: "Have you ever gotten any substantive conversations that would have gotten you off the Deng contract?"

Magic: (laughing) We wish!
   3686. stevegamer Posted: February 08, 2018 at 06:26 PM (#5622288)
Some interesting deals.

- Elfrid Payton to the Suns for a second.
Win for the Suns. I agree that the 7ers should've been all over Payton, but might have been hard since they milked so much out of the Magic originally. He would've allowed Fultz to stay out for the rest of the year.

-Lakers-Cavs deal
Like it from both perspectives. IT Didn't fit in Cleveland, and really had no chance to fit, given timing and the injury. Cavs get 2 guys who can help them right now, one of whom (Nance, Jr) is an energy rim running 4, which should fit in easily, plus his dad was really good there. Lakers get a pick, and expirings, which they want to chase star free agents. It's likely that Nance or Clarkson does the most for his new team of all the players moving around in this deal, though, so you need to nail the free agents.

- Kings/Jazz/Cavs deal
Cavs get Hill & Hood, who should help. However, they once again have to find a way to mesh with little time, and it didn't work the first time they tried it this year. This is last year with LeBron, and in danger of (gulp) missing playoffs.
Jazz didn't want Hood, so getting Crowder should work well. I think Cleveland is an outlier, he's better than that. It wasn't that long ago he was rated well within the top 50 by us, and Cleveland was a river fire so far this year.
I don;'t like Shumpert for Hill for the Kings, but none of liked the Cousins deal, either.
   3687. PJ Martinez Posted: February 08, 2018 at 07:52 PM (#5622316)
Lowe on Cleveland's moves: "there is a good chance Cleveland has restored itself as the presumptive favorite in the East without sacrificing their most important safety net in the event of another LeBron doomsday scenario."
   3688. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 08:00 PM (#5622318)
what the #### is this bullshit
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
Kemba Walker will replace Kristaps Porzingis as an All-Star reserve from the Eastern Conference.
   3689. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 08, 2018 at 08:34 PM (#5622324)
I think this is a false assumption, given that LeBron has been a big part of the problem. The only guys left on the roster who have been net positives are Cedi Osman and Kyle Korver.

Could you explain this a bit more? Are you saying that LeBron has been a negative so far this year? Do you mean more recently?
   3690. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: February 08, 2018 at 08:38 PM (#5622325)
my gut reaction after the deadline is that the sixers are much less safe than they were two weeks ago. that's an overreaction considering they're only 3 losses behind the 3-seed, but they've let a lot of winnable games turn into losses and i'm not really at a peak of confidence right now.

the sixers have 4 games left until the all star break (NOP/LAC/NYK/MIA), all at home. they can win all 4. they should be favored in all 4.
   3691. JC in DC Posted: February 08, 2018 at 09:08 PM (#5622331)
What is a Luke Kornet?
   3692. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 08, 2018 at 09:08 PM (#5622332)
Stiggles, don't read this.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.
.
the capulator. This is awesome.
   3693. JC in DC Posted: February 08, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5622340)
So, the new New York regime is undoing the P-Jax years. They have clearly moved away from the kinds of players he preferred and towards the players he explicitly said NY would avoid. Y'all may recall how he disavowed "athletic" players in favor of "smart" ones who could run a system and new how to "play basketball." So far, and the Mudiay is the latest version of this, they've been adding athletic guys. I'm glad to see McDermott go. He frustrated me to no end. Just not a good enough shooter to justify his other deficiencies. I'm not sure what to make of Mudiay. But, boy, NY is going to stink these next ~30 games.
   3694. tshipman Posted: February 08, 2018 at 10:06 PM (#5622346)
Could you explain this a bit more? Are you saying that LeBron has been a negative so far this year? Do you mean more recently?


On/Off net rating.

Korver and Osman are two of the only guys left who play significant minutes and have a positive rating.

LeBron, for the first time in his career, is a net negative.* A large part of that is his awful defense and effort.




*I generally place more emphasis on +/- for stars. Guys with high usage create their own offensive context, and teams try to maximize them, so external factors tend to be less of an issue. Role players have a lot more issues with +/-.
   3695. sardonic Posted: February 08, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5622352)
I rarely disagree with Zach Lowe, but:

[Hill] will perk up in Cleveland. Hill is the sort of secondary player who looks better on a good team.

That goes double for Nance, all flare screens, extra passes and box-outs -- helpful little things that don't work as well when you do them for young guys learning the NBA. An executive once told me Nance is one of the only players he has ever seen who is thinking of only one thing every second on the court: What can I do, in this very moment, to help my team win? Nothing else clutters his internal monologue -- no ruminating about points, how long it has been since he shot the ball (he's a little jumper-phobic), or where the party is after the game.


The Cleveland coaching staff has proven laughably inept at integrating new players and managing egos. I definitely think they screwed up Jae Crowder -- coming into the season you'd have bet on the switchy defense, do-the-little-things, 40% 3P shooter to be as good a fit as possible next to Lebron vs Nance, who can't shoot jumpers, or Hood, who isn't much of a defender.

As for motivating Hill, the locker room was so bad before that I wouldn't just assume that getting onto the team will boost his performance.

I think the main way this set of moves makes Cleveland better is if it inspires Lebron to care more/try harder. Which, admittedly, is a pretty big factor.
   3696. sardonic Posted: February 08, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5622353)
I guess, it feels a bit like the Cleveland regime is a like a teenager that started with a Ferrari (last year's team), somehow traded it to a friend for a BMW, totaled the BMW, and then their parents bought them an Audi and now everything is supposed to be okay.
   3697. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 08, 2018 at 11:00 PM (#5622358)
Thanks, tshipman.

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, some of whom still care about baseball playoffs, but all of whom agree the Celtics gave up too much for Irving.

I was going to comment on the trades but then I read this. I thought Crowder was going to be a really good player for the Cavs and he was awful. I never though much of Isaiah Thomas but felt that getting the pick and Crowder was enough. Could not have been more wrong.

   3698. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 08, 2018 at 11:48 PM (#5622369)
I honestly think whatever team LeBron goes to next summer is going to end up wishing he hadn't. He's going to demand and get significant control over personnel and coaching and he's a catastrophically bad GM.

Lakers fans: If LeBron and George sign there this summer--as is increasingly rumored now that they officially have room for two max contracts--does that make them the best team in the league?

Payton is not a great player, but that really seems like they're selling low. Payton is an average starting PG or a way above average bench PG. That's worth more than a 2nd.


It's the hair. No one wants to have to see that dude's hairdo every single night. It lowers his value from low 1st to high 2nd by itself.
   3699. Tin Angel Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:00 AM (#5622370)
It's the hair. No one wants to have to see that dude's hairdo every single night.


Strongly agree. Whenever i have the misfortune of seeing a bit of an Orlando game all I can think about is how bad that guy's hairdo is.
   3700. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:06 AM (#5622372)
I honestly think whatever team LeBron goes to next summer is going to end up wishing he hadn't. He's going to demand and get significant control over personnel and coaching and he's a catastrophically bad GM.

Is he though? Have the Cavs really under-performed under the last three years? Apparently, he thought the Cavs shouldn't have traded Kyrie and they did for what turned to be a terrible trade for them.

In the NBA, there's only so much planning for the future you can do when you have one of the best players in NBA history who is closer to the end of his career than then beginning, and who is still one of the best, if not the best players in the world.

Should he care about spending Gilbert's money and the luxury tax? I don't think he should.
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