Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, October 11, 2017

OT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, some of whom still care about baseball playoffs, but all of whom agree the Celtics gave up too much for Irving.

Here’s the thread’s top 50 players ranking.

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 11, 2017 at 11:21 AM | 3977 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 38 of 40 pages ‹ First  < 36 37 38 39 40 > 
   3701. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:15 AM (#5622373)
If LeBron and George sign there this summer--as is increasingly rumored now that they officially have room for two max contracts--does that make them the best team in the league?
i'm pretty sure they wouldn't be better than minnesota.
Strongly agree. Whenever i have the misfortune of seeing a bit of an Orlando game all I can think about is how bad that guy's hairdo is.
apparently his hair has blocked his own shot 3 times this year.

I honestly think whatever team LeBron goes to next summer is going to end up wishing he hadn't. He's going to demand and get significant control over personnel and coaching and he's a catastrophically bad GM.

does he know that he's a terrible GM? part of the reason i rate SAS as a dark horse for him this summer is that he'd be able to trust the front office and the coaching staff enough to drop most of his personnel and coaching demands.

i'm around 87% sure that he'd get brett brown fired within 8 months if he signs with the sixers, but i think the rest of his opinions can be managed.
   3702. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:22 AM (#5622377)
To be fair to LeBron, I imagine if I'd spent the first seven years of my career with the Cavaliers, I wouldn't ever again trust anyone else to make a basketball decision either.
   3703. tshipman Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:32 AM (#5622379)
Lakers fans: If LeBron and George sign there this summer--as is increasingly rumored now that they officially have room for two max contracts--does that make them the best team in the league?


No.
   3704. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:37 AM (#5622380)
No.

Hmm... I wonder who you think the best team is. Must be the Rockets.
   3705. tshipman Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:56 AM (#5622383)
Hmm... I wonder who you think the best team is. Must be the Rockets.


The Lakers project to 34 wins and their best players so far have been one guy who just got traded (Nance), one guy who will probably not be brought back next year (Randle), and some really young guys.

If 27 year old LeBron walked through that door, they wouldn't be the best team in the league. I love the Lakers, but come on. 33 year old LeBron isn't taking a 30 win team to the championship.

***

Best team next year: Interesting question/thought exercise. Obviously really hard to project ...

Warriors are going to be worse next year than they are this year. All their guys get older. The three offensive stars are having great years, one of them probably falls off slightly next year.
Houston has big tax/injury questions. Are they really going to keep CP3 at 30mm++?
Toronto's two best players get older, but their best lineups get closer to their prime.
Boston gets Hayward back, but they have a lot of positional duplication.
San Antonio ... the stuff with Kawhi is scary. He's been out a ton and has a somewhat checkered injury history. Other guys are all old or nobodies.

I guess I go with Minnesota? The thinking is that they're young, and if Towns figures out how to play defense, they win a lot more games. He's gotten much better lately.
   3706. Tin Angel Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:42 AM (#5622393)
Minnesota? It's either Warriors, Rockets, or Boston. Lebron and Paul George make the Lakers like a 3 or 4 seed at best.
   3707. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:47 AM (#5622395)
Warriors are going to be worse next year than they are this year. All their guys get older. The three offensive stars are having great years, one of them probably falls off slightly next year.
the important ones aren't so old that they'll fall off a cliff.

they can't do anything about livingston or iguodala, but they should be able to reload the rest of their bench. if the free agent market is as tight as expected, they should be one of the main beneficiaries.
   3708. tshipman Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:50 AM (#5622396)
It's either Warriors, Rockets, or Boston.


The last few years have been a historical aberration. Generally speaking, teams don't stay at the top of the NBA for long. A draft pick, a new coach, a few guys making the leap together, something always happens.

I don't know exactly who it is, but if you offered me the field vs. those three teams, I'd probably take the field and feel pretty good about it.
   3709. Tin Angel Posted: February 09, 2018 at 03:55 AM (#5622401)
The last few years have been a historical aberration. Generally speaking, teams don't stay at the top of the NBA for long.


I guess the question is how long is long. The Warriors are already starting to not look like the same team but teams like the Spurs and Lakers dominated for a while then reloaded.
   3710. PJ Martinez Posted: February 09, 2018 at 06:51 AM (#5622406)
The last few years have been a historical aberration.

Have they been? Seems to me the great teams typically dominate for two to four-year stretches. This would be Golden State's fourth year in the Finals.

Durant going to Golden State probably turns the Warriors into an aberration, and will help make them the favorites for a fifth year in a row.
   3711. JC in DC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 06:58 AM (#5622407)
Way too early to be pronouncing the demise of Golden State, gents.
   3712. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: February 09, 2018 at 06:59 AM (#5622408)
What is the evidence FOR LeBron being defacto GM as opposed to Cavs front office just making win now moves given that they have one of the best players ever in his late prime/early decline who refuses to commit long term? In other words, when I hear the LeBron is an awful GM comments my thinking is that you mean that the organization is seeking his approval before they make moves and/or a significant percentage of the organization's moves come at his request and I don't see the evidence for that. If you just mean he does a poor job evaluating/projecting players then that's a different discussion in my mind.
   3713. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 09, 2018 at 07:57 AM (#5622412)
I don't know who exactly makes the GM like calls in Cleveland, but I am pretty sure the coaching staff serves at the pleasure of King James and the coaching staff looks terrible. At least some of that reflects back on LeBron.
   3714. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: February 09, 2018 at 08:04 AM (#5622414)
I was hoping Elfrid Payton's hair would be a historical aberration but there seem to be multiple college prospects sporting something similar. See Alabama. Don't know if these guys just can't get the hi-top fade to work or what.
   3715. JC in DC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 08:35 AM (#5622419)
Did you see the post game celebration after LeBron hit that game winner, how he ignored IT? I have little doubt the front office seeks his input as to who he'd like to see stay or who he'd like to see gone. I don't blame them at all, but he's at least that involved I would guess.
   3716. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 09, 2018 at 09:06 AM (#5622426)
I have little doubt the front office seeks his input as to who he'd like to see stay or who he'd like to see gone.


There was a piece in The Athletic this week (paywall) that makes the case that David Griffin consulted/conferred with Lebron, but that has changed under the new guy (Kody Altman). The article claims LeBron pushed to keep Kyrie no matter what, but Altman (and Dan Gilbert) shipped him out anyway.
   3717. spivey Posted: February 09, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5622429)
I do think it was a pretty ballsy move for IT3 to call out Love for skipping that one game. I thought that was out of place/inappropriate based on what little we knew at the time. I can understand his frustration. He got hurt at such a time that really probably cost him $75-100 million.
   3718. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 09, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5622439)
I have little doubt the front office seeks his input as to who he'd like to see stay or who he'd like to see gone. I don't blame them at all, but he's at least that involved I would guess.

How is that any different than every star player since at least MJ?
   3719. jmurph Posted: February 09, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5622450)
What is the evidence FOR LeBron being defacto GM as opposed to Cavs front office just making win now moves given that they have one of the best players ever in his late prime/early decline who refuses to commit long term?

The Thompson contract, the Smith contract, Wade, the coach firings/hirings, James Jones, the Varejao contract soon after LeBron went back to Cleveland, Mike Miller, the Wiggins/Love trade (after LeBron pointedly didn't mention Wiggins when announcing his return to Cleveland)... that's all I can think of.

Now not all of those were bad, and even some of the bad moves had mitigating circumstances, but it does seem like a lot of smoke.
   3720. JC in DC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5622456)
How is that any different than every star player since at least MJ?


I'm sure it's not. Nor should it be. I really have no issues with it at all, and I'm not sure there could be another way. Success in the league is so star-dependent and stars so empowered, that it seems prudent to have your star (if you're fortunate to have one) involved in the team building process.
   3721. spivey Posted: February 09, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5622475)
Golden State will still be great to all-time great the next 2-3 years as they keep the core of Curry/Durant/Draymond together. Some of their old guys are falling off, which will hurt, but they're gonna get plenty of good ring chasers to help make up for it. They will get more unathletic over time, as they may be starting to now, as it seems like most ring chasers are gonna be older players that have made their money, and as their core slowly ages.
   3722. jmurph Posted: February 09, 2018 at 10:38 AM (#5622486)
what the #### is this bullshit
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
Kemba Walker will replace Kristaps Porzingis as an All-Star reserve from the Eastern Conference.

Since stiggles posted this, I'm trying to figure out how it relates to the Sixers. Are you implying Simmons should have made it? Kemba is having a pretty significantly better year, so that would be weird. Walker probably should have been on the initial roster.
   3723. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 09, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5622497)
Usually the replacements are the guys who were next up in the voting totals, so it's not subjective.
   3724. jmurph Posted: February 09, 2018 at 10:59 AM (#5622503)
Usually the replacements are the guys who were next up in the voting totals, so it's not subjective.

Huh, I don't think I knew that.

Well on the merits, and since it's been at least a week since I criticized him, Kemba would have been a better pick than John Wall, too.
   3725. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 09, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5622505)
Well, I mean it's up to the commish so technically it is subjective, but for every replacement to date (at least this year) it has been said that player was next up in the (coaches or players, I can't remember) vote.
   3726. JC in DC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5622557)
So, what's to make of Bryan Colangelo's press conference?

I still cannot believe Fultz was the #1 pick in the draft.
   3727. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:28 PM (#5622563)
The Thompson contract, the Smith contract, Wade, the coach firings/hirings, James Jones, the Varejao contract soon after LeBron went back to Cleveland, Mike Miller, the Wiggins/Love trade (after LeBron pointedly didn't mention Wiggins when announcing his return to Cleveland)... that's all I can think of.

Now not all of those were bad, and even some of the bad moves had mitigating circumstances, but it does seem like a lot of smoke.
the shumpert contract, i think they got birdman at one point.

Since stiggles posted this, I'm trying to figure out how it relates to the Sixers. Are you implying Simmons should have made it? Kemba is having a pretty significantly better year, so that would be weird. Walker probably should have been on the initial roster.
i'm biased, simmons' secondary stats are better, he's more versatile and he's more interesting. there are kemba walkers every year. isaiah, lou, kyrie, teague, lillard, mccollum, bledsoe. walker isn't even having that great a season by that standard.

otoh, simmons is unique and special and this is just the tip of the iceberg for him.

Bryan Colangelo says Markelle Fultz's current range is "within the paint" .
— Derek Bodner (@DerekBodnerNBA) February 9, 2018
Other quick notes on Fultz:
- They still don't know if changing the shot caused the injury or if the injury caused the changed shot.
- No timeline. Could come back in days or could be out the season.
- Has to completely rebuild the muscle memory in his shooting mechanics

— Derek Bodner (@DerekBodnerNBA) February 9, 2018
@DerekBodnerNBA
#sixers GM Bryan Colangelo cuts the press conference short after 22 minutes. Asked if there's a timeline on the next update on Fultz, he walked away without comment.


quick question: what's the best thing colangelo has done in his 2 years as sixers GM?
he drafted luwawu, korkmaz and pasecniks in the late first round (using picks that hinkie acquired), which is, at least for now, meh
he traded significant value for markelle fultz, which you maybe(?) can't blame him for, but otoh, what the hell did BOS know about him and why didn't anyone else?
he signed redick, bayless, spanish chocolate and amir
he traded nerlens noel for nothing
he traded jahlil okafor for nothing
he sold 2nd round picks (jawun evans, sterling brown) for money
simmons missed his entire rookie season
fultz is going to miss most of his and he's not even recovering from whatever the hell is wrong with him


simmons and embiid are sixers because of hinkie. covington, saric, mcconnell and holmes are process discoveries.


he's been GM for 2 years. hinkie was GM for less than 3.
   3728. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 09, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5622584)
Listing high profile busts that Hinkie drafted that Colangelo traded for their market value (to wit: nothing) as marks against Colangelo is disingenuous. The rest of your argument sounds better if you don't so flamboyantly reveal your bias by including that.

At this point I think the total expected value of Fultz's NBA career is zero and if you get anything at all from him that's an unexpected bonus. There will be "What the hell happened to Markelle Fultz?" documentaries produced 20 years from now.

In other news, I'm getting a lot of 1998 Bulls vibes from the general Golden State zeitgeist right now--lots of "what's wrong with the Warriors?" and "are the Warriors even the favorites?" ink when the team's just bored and waiting for the playoffs, and the basketball media is kind of bored with the Greatest Team Ever coverage and ready to move on to something different. Not that they're a direct analogue to the 1998 Bulls, who really were on their last run whereas these Warriors are not... but like the 1998 Bulls, yes, despite what bored media are writing, the Warriors are still by far the class of the league and overwhelmingly likely to win the title, absent disastrous injuries.
   3729. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5622598)
Listing high profile busts that Hinkie drafted that Colangelo traded for their market value (to wit: nothing) as marks against Colangelo is disingenuous. The rest of your argument sounds better if you don't so flamboyantly reveal your bias by including that.
noel is not a bust.

@DerekBodnerNBA
Nov 19 Fultz was to begin progressing toward full basketball activities.

Dec 9 shoulder soreness gone and imbalance resolved

Feb 9 Sixers announce his range is limited to "within the paint" and can't predict timeline

Don't see much to be optimistic about re: return this season
   3730. jmurph Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5622600)
Listing high profile busts that Hinkie drafted that Colangelo traded for their market value (to wit: nothing) as marks against Colangelo is disingenuous.

Cosign.

But otherwise some fair points in there. He did give Covington the relatively creative contract, although I'm possibly alone in suspecting that won't end up looking all that good.
   3731. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5622601)
Why would a Sixers fan want Simmons on Lebron's team? Do you want him to tear his ACL?
   3732. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5622603)
Seems to me that Hinkie and Colangelo are both parts of The Process. I'm not sure what Colangelo has done that Hinkie wouldn't have done. I don't think they cut short or aborted The Process. At some point you have to stop intentionally losing all your games and try to consolidate, because the rookie contracts don't last forever. In this case it happened after a mere 4 years of intentionally losing all their games, and 5 top-3 overall picks, which have generated 2 All-Star quality players and 3 busts, plus the aforementioned Covington, Saric, McConnell, Holmes, Luwawu-Cabarrot and the not-aforementioned Justin Anderson (from the Noel trade).

Hinkie would have also traded Nerlens Noel and Jahlil Okafor for next to nothing. Maybe it would have come packaged with five second-round picks and a veteran making $25 million who would then be waived, instead of one second-round pick and a veteran making $9 million who is getting playing time.
   3733. Tin Angel Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5622611)
Darren Rovell‏ @darrenrovell
Heat put @DwyaneWade jerseys on sale at 5pm yesterday. Received orders from more than 100 countries in 15 hours. Team merchandise sales are up 8000% from the previous two days.


I just can't fathom why Wade is so popular. He has never said an interesting thing and his game was based on drawing fouls.
   3734. JC in DC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5622618)
Because Wade was really, really good, and pretty consistently a winner. Wade doesn't have LBJ's "GOAT" resume but in my opinion he has much more "winner disproportionate to his talent" vibe than LBJ does. Not saying it's justified, he's just a drama-free m-f'er. I really love his game.
   3735. DCA Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5622624)
Okafor was a bust trajectory from day 1 but Noel was a solid defense-first center while Hinkie was still around. I do think it's fair to call him a squandered asset on the Colangelo ledger.
   3736. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5622626)
Seems to me that Hinkie and Colangelo are both parts of The Process. I'm not sure what Colangelo has done that Hinkie wouldn't have done. I don't think they cut short or aborted The Process. At some point you have to stop intentionally losing all your games and try to consolidate, because the rookie contracts don't last forever. In this case it happened after a mere 4 years of intentionally losing all their games, and 5 top-3 overall picks, which have generated 2 All-Star quality players and 3 busts, plus the aforementioned Covington, Saric, McConnell, Holmes, Luwawu-Cabarrot and the not-aforementioned Justin Anderson (from the Noel trade).

the issue isn't that the process would have evolved, the issue is that colangelo does not appear to have added any significant value to the talent that hinkie had already put in place.

also, hinkie wasn't here for 4 years, it was less than 3. hinkie's first year was 2013-14 and he was forced out before the end of 2015-16.

also, it wasn't 5 top-3 picks, it was 2 top-5 picks. noel was taken 6th overall, saric was taken 12th and MCW 11th. embiid never actually played under hinkie (and neither did saric or simmons).

   3737. JC in DC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5622631)
[3736] I haven't followed him closely enough, but not sure I agree, or I'd like to hear what you and STIGGLES mean. He seems pretty busty to me. It's kind of shocking how he, and more so Okafor, are so terrible. NJ is literally babying Okafor into playing, hopeful that somehow despite all evidence something clicks.
   3738. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:38 PM (#5622633)
I can't love anyone's game if it's based largely on drawing fouls, but Wade was a really great player who, as JC says and paraphrasing Bill James, was 100% ball, 0% bullshit.
   3739. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5622635)
A few days ago I was watching a Grizzlies-Pelicans game and noticed Okafor came off the Pellies' bench and was doing some decent bench big stuff, and I thought to myself, "Hey, I didn't know New Orleans had picked Jahlil Okafor up--he looks like he might be salvageable."

Then the broadcasters clued me in that it was Emeka Okafor. Who I could have sworn died in 2012.
   3740. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5622638)
Noel is karma for how they acquired him. But, really, his failure has more to do with injuries which is just luck or a product of organization depending on how you feel about the 76ers medical team. Then again, Noel is at one of the better NBA orgs now and he hasn't covered himself in glory. The story of the Process and the 76ers is still to be written, I think. Just be patient y'all and enjoy the actual good basketball teams that currently exist!

This Fultz thing is the damnedest thing. I have no idea what to make of it.
   3741. jmurph Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5622643)
Noel was a solid defense-first center while Hinkie was still around. I do think it's fair to call him a squandered asset on the Colangelo ledger.

He was one of four centers on the team, getting limited playing time, with one year to go before restricted free agency. With a not great injury history. In the year he was traded, as far as I can tell Brown gave him zero minutes alongside Embiid (I don't think that would have worked, mind you, but they were going nowhere and didn't even try it). He was subsequently buried in Dallas and very clearly continues to have no trade value. I don't really understand what Colangelo was supposed to do.
   3742. Booey Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:47 PM (#5622644)
I just can't fathom why Wade is so popular. He has never said an interesting thing and his game was based on drawing fouls.

His old commercials with Charles Barkley were kinda funny. And I've always thought Gabrielle Union was cute.

So there's that, I suppose.

Plus, yeah, he was good at more things than just drawing fouls. He loses a few points for being carted off in a wheelchair after a shoulder injury, though.
   3743. nick swisher hygiene Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5622647)
I just can't fathom why Wade is so popular. He has never said an interesting thing and his game was based on drawing fouls.


Co-sign. I can't think of a single post I've agreed with more since the thread started.
   3744. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5622650)
Young Wade was an exciting player.
   3745. jmurph Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:54 PM (#5622652)
You guys are nuts, Wade was a GREAT player. In addition to the scoring, he was a great rebounder (for his size), a bizarrely good shotblocker, and got to the rim at will. He suffers a bit now from our collective discovery of math and the three pointer, but that wasn't the game when he was in his prime.
   3746. JC in DC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:56 PM (#5622653)
This Fultz thing is the damnedest thing. I have no idea what to make of it.


Why isn't this the idea?

Fultz, who did not come out of HS at a top 5 prospect, was overrated based on one year's performance at a non-top tier conference? I never understood how he became the nearly consensus #1 as a I said over and over at the time, based on watching him in HS. He's strong and athletic, but you never thought, \"####, that guy might be the #1 pick in the draft."

I can't wait until he comes back next year and makes me eat my hat.
   3747. JC in DC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 01:58 PM (#5622658)
Totally agree, jmurph. He got some calls that made me curse the TV for sure, but man, he played so big for a 2, and just so well. In almost every way, I prefer his game to LBJ's even though I grudgingly grant the latter is the better player.
   3748. jmurph Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5622662)
To be fair, at the tail of Wade's prime I also started thinking of him as overrated, but I think it's easier now that he's seemingly on the way out to step back and look at the big picture and remember how good he once was.
   3749. jmurph Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5622664)
He got some calls that made me curse the TV

Oh ditto, for sure. And the thing about that style is it became more common and, to me at least, more infuriating- Rose, Harden, Westbrook, etc.
   3750. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5622673)
[3736] I haven't followed him closely enough, but not sure I agree, or I'd like to hear what you and STIGGLES mean. He seems pretty busty to me. It's kind of shocking how he, and more so Okafor, are so terrible. NJ is literally babying Okafor into playing, hopeful that somehow despite all evidence something clicks.

noel is exceptionally athletic and a great defender. i haven't watched him this year, but i wonder if his knee is still giving him issues.

he's a UFA this summer. if he's healthy and if he signs with HOU or GSW or BOS, you'll see what we mean.


as for okafor....his basketball IQ is not good. it hurts him on defense, it hurts him in rebounding, he's too deliberate on offense, he's too confident in his mid-range jumpshot, he's terrible at setting screens (and just about anything else that helps his teammates when he doesn't have the ball) and he never realized what i did after watching him for 2 months:
this 2nd quarter against utah is why i'm so optimistic about okafor. that right hand drive from the elbow to the baseline ending in a fading one handed floater is death and taxes for him. it is unguardable and he can do it in his sleep. that is a signature move on par with dirk's fadeaway, pierce's step back and duncan's bank shot.
this is the exact move i was referring to. here's a more basic version of it.

he could get that shot against anyone (those clips were against gobert and pachulia) and he can make it 60/70+% of the time, plus draw fouls off of it.
   3751. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5622682)
Totally agree, jmurph. He got some calls that made me curse the TV for sure, but man, he played so big for a 2, and just so well.

That Finals when he attempted about 50 FTs/game really created the narrative that he somehow hasn't been able overcome. For his career, his FT rate isn't that far ahead of LeBron (.437 vs .416) and is dwarfed by Harden (.539).

He loses a few points for being carted off in a wheelchair after a shoulder injury, though.

At least he was injured.
   3752. JC in DC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5622683)
You've got problems is Rick Carlisle can't figure out wtf to do with you. Lots of "exceptionally athletic" guys wash out of the NBA.

Okafor can't stay on the court. He could have two more death and taxes moves, but he gives away so much in so many other areas that he cannot stay on the floor. He doesn't defend at all, he forgets to/is too winded to/doesn't want to run the floor. He's awful. The Nets are trying, man, they're trying, but he's not good.
   3753. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5622686)
Bobby Marks @BobbyMarks42 2h2 hours ago

Current post-trade deadline luxury tax breakdown: Cleveland ($50M), Golden State ($32.2M), Oklahoma City ($24.5M) and Washington ($6.5M). The Cavaliers will spend $4.25 for every $1 spent on a player. Cleveland has 2 roster spots open.


LeBron the GM ain't shy about spending Gilbert's money.
   3754. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5622687)
For the Jazz trade, I'm okay with it. All things being equal I'd rather have Hood going forward, but obviously all things are not equal. All the local reporters talked about Hood wanting out, and the Jazz clearly did not want to pay his next contract when he's still a bad defender (and worse this year), misses too much time, and still doesn't do anything well but shoot, leading to inconsistent performance and mediocre efficiency. I think this is also a bit like with Kanter where Hood, despite all his faults, will do better on a second team that can just embrace his strengths and stop trying for as much development (in Hood's case, trying to get him to draw more fouls, which he's simply not capable of with his well below average athleticism).

For Crowder, I was curious how much of his poor performance this season was due to Cleveland's style. I guess his mother also passed away and his conditioning has been pretty poor (which understandably could be related to grief). When the Jazz decided that Hood was not a part of their future, Crowder became a fair return. Local guys keep talking about the Jazz have confidence they can get a third star to want to come to Utah, so having his small contract should help fit that in if they really can.
   3755. aberg Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5622688)
Why isn't this the idea?

Fultz, who did not come out of HS at a top 5 prospect, was overrated based on one year's performance at a non-top tier conference? I never understood how he became the nearly consensus #1 as a I said over and over at the time, based on watching him in HS. He's strong and athletic, but you never thought, \"####, that guy might be the #1 pick in the draft."

I can't wait until he comes back next year and makes me eat my hat.


Well, he was a top 5 recruit and the guys above him were either viewed as very similar prospects or suffered a second horrible knee injury.
   3756. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5622689)
I think the sheer cliff between Boston Crowder and Cleveland Crowder is mostly the difference between a great--and detail-obsessed--coach and effectively no coach, a team that practices meticulously versus a team that doesn't practice.

I think Quin Snyder is a pretty good coach, and I expect significant bounceback from Crowder in Utah. Not likely all the way back to what he was in Boston, but closer to that to the shambling nonentity he was in Cleveland.
   3757. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:38 PM (#5622695)
I think the coaching narrative around Crowder is true enough, but misses his ankle injuries. In 2016 he was a legit 3 and D guy, but last year he was a meh defender who shot well because his lateral mobility wasn't as good as it had been. I'd hope Snyder can scheme him the looks he needs on offense, but I'm less certain he'll ever be the defender he was a couple years ago. I'd love to be wrong, though, as he's a hard working player.
   3758. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5622703)
It's not especially hard to make the case that Dwyane Wade's 2009 season was the best season any shooting guard not named Michael Jordan has ever had, so there's that, too.

what the hell did BOS know about [Fultz] and why didn't anyone else?
"Nothing, they just really liked Tatum" seems like the safest answer.
   3759. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5622711)
I think the coaching narrative around Crowder is true enough, but misses his ankle injuries. In 2016 he was a legit 3 and D guy, but last year he was a meh defender who shot well because his lateral mobility wasn't as good as it had been. I'd hope Snyder can scheme him the looks he needs on offense, but I'm less certain he'll ever be the defender he was a couple years ago. I'd love to be wrong, though, as he's a hard working player.


Yeah, my biggest concern is Crowder is just an old 27. He either has one or zero dunks on the year, and I don't think that can all be usage.
   3760. jmurph Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5622712)
what the hell did BOS know about [Fultz] and why didn't anyone else?
"Nothing, they just really liked Tatum" seems like the safest answer.

Yeah that seems right to me, too. The buzz was Fultz was the guy, then they worked him out, and not too long after that they made the deal with Philly. So they didn't love his workout, presumably, and liked what they saw from Tatum.

I can't find it now, but I read recently references to Tatum's workout giving them greater confidence that he'd develop into a better three point shooter than he showed in college.
   3761. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 09, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5622716)
And the thing about that style is it became more common and, to me at least, more infuriating- Rose, Harden, Westbrook, etc.

Rose?!?!?! The biggest knock on him at his peak was that he always tried to avoid contact rather than initiating it and getting to the line. He has one of the era's lowest free throw rates among high-usage players. He's tied with Kyrie Irving in that regard, just behind Steph Curry for lowest among high-usage guards. Corey Maggette, on the other hand, I forgot how much his game was predicated on barreling into the lane and throwing his body into people to get to the line. He had a higher free throw rate than Shaq, who defenders fouled intentionally so much they coined a term for it.
   3762. aberg Posted: February 09, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5622718)
I don't know why you guys are trashing Rose. He's right on the verge of a big comeback. Just wait and see. [says guy trying to convince himself]
   3763. jmurph Posted: February 09, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5622721)
Rose?!?!?! The biggest knock on him at his peak was that he always tried to avoid contact rather than initiating it and getting to the line.

Hmm so this is funny because I'm now remembering Moses (I think) calling me out on this same point back during Rose's day, too. I'm clearly wrong, but man, it always seemed to me his entire game was throwing himself at the rim and seeing what happened next.
   3764. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: February 09, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5622745)
Yeah, my biggest concern is Crowder is just an old 27. He either has one or zero dunks on the year, and I don't think that can all be usage.

I was super high on Crowder coming to CLE, despite the warnings of BOS fans and man...was I wrong. Defensively, he seems to have lost a step, but I would have been fine with that if he didn't consistently demonstrate himself to be an idiotic offensive player. Lack of practice time doesn't explain his ability to turn a LeBron created corner 3 into a long 2 on at least once a game basis or his over-reliance on trying to take guys off the dribble for pull up mid rangers and tricky layups. Just a really frustrating guy to watch this year.

Re: Wade

Peak Wade was kind of just LeBron in a smaller much more fragile package. That's awesome. He's also got the best post Kobe winner shine of any star level player and has had an overall really positive off court life. Plus those Miami Vice City jerseys are the best NBA jerseys ever, hands down (can't wait until mine that I ordered 3 weeks ago arrives on June 1st). Seems pretty obvious why that jersey would sell so well/Wade would be so popular.

Re: Noel

He was/is better than Clint Capela who seems to be doing fine. Carlisle is a great coach, but, sort of like a rich man's D'antoni, he appears to be a guy who is completely inflexible.
   3765. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 09, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5622750)
Hmm so this is funny because I'm now remembering Moses (I think) calling me out on this same point back during Rose's day, too. I'm clearly wrong, but man, it always seemed to me his entire game was throwing himself at the rim and seeing what happened next.

Hell, it was one of the biggest criticisms of Rose, that he didn't get to the line enough (or as much as someone like Westbrook); his FTr jumped the year he won the MVP but that was still way behind Russ*. He absorbed a lot of contact, but wasn't good at drawing fouls; I used to say he was actually trying to make the shots instead of earning a FT. After the first injury, he just appeared to do everything he could to avoid all contact.

*Russ's career FTr is .392; Rose's high that year was .348 and is .258 for his career.
   3766. Rally Posted: February 09, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5622756)
In addition to the scoring, he was a great rebounder (for his size), a bizarrely good shotblocker, and got to the rim at will.


And some high assist totals. Wade filled up the stat sheet every way possible. Plus he won a title in Miami before Lebron ever got there. It's easy to see why he is loved in Miami.
   3767. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: February 09, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5622763)
The Thompson contract,

Reasonable contract at that time.

the Smith contract,

Standard title contender rewarding guys who got them there for fear of messing with chemistry overpay

Wade,

What team wouldn't pick up a HOF for (basically) free?

the coach firings/hirings,

You can fairly argue that LeBron got Blatt fired, but I don't know of any legitimate rumors of James involvement in other coaching moves

James Jones,

Definitely done to appease LeBron.

the Varejao contract soon after LeBron went back to Cleveland,

I know he played with Young LeBron, but not sure how to evaluate this one in terms of garden variety bad GMing vs. LeBron favoring.

Mike Miller,

Definitely done to appease LeBron.

the Wiggins/Love trade (after LeBron pointedly didn't mention Wiggins when announcing his return to Cleveland)... that's all I can think of.

Standard going all in to win a championship move.

Based on that, it looks to me like LeBron can clearly be fingered in terms of end of bench/locker room leader types.
   3768. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: February 09, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5622765)
I remember someone (Tom Ziller, maybe?) writing a piece about how Dwyane Wade was bizarrely close to an average power forward, statistically (rebounding, shot blocking, some facets of scoring, etc). Which, when it comes from your 2-guard and doesn't prevent your actual power forward from doing the same, is hugely valuable.
   3769. Tin Angel Posted: February 09, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5622772)
Plus he won a title in Miami before Lebron ever got there. It's easy to see why he is loved in Miami.


Though my post drastically simplified his game, Wade was great- I was just confused by the idea of his jersey selling to 100 different countries in 15 hours. Maybe I underestimate how popular jerseys are. Would a Shaquille jersey like that sell so much? I don't know, maybe it's just because the jerseys are so good. I'm trying to think of the 20 year old in Slovenia buying a Dwyane Wade jersey and it's hard to imagine why it would be that instead of a Curry or Giannis or Anthony Davis or whatever.
   3770. nick swisher hygiene Posted: February 09, 2018 at 07:32 PM (#5622827)
Yeah, I'm the same way: what makes Wade a bigger celebrity than he was/is a basketball player is what's weird to me.

"He played for Marquette--you know, in MILWAUKEE!--and then he got fouled a lot!!! F the haterz"

Dunno. Is it the Miami thing? As a non-Quebecois Canadian, Florida just barely exists in my imagination. Hard to explain: I would agree with everybody else here about the historical/cultural/whatever importance of NY/LA/Chicago. Miami, in those terms, to me literally does not exist. But to Americans it's comparable to those cities?
   3771. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: February 09, 2018 at 07:45 PM (#5622828)
FWIW (casual fan) I was a Wade fan early because of that Marquette run, and the first Miami title definitely helped cement his status (not cos it was in Miami, just cos he was balling).
   3772. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 09, 2018 at 08:04 PM (#5622831)
quick question: what's the best thing colangelo has done in his 2 years as sixers GM?


He didn't screw up drafting Simmons. There, answered it for you. :(

I have no faith in Colangelo. Couldn't he get someone to help with 2nd team scoring or is he waiting for some buyout to pick up someone on the cheap?
   3773. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 09, 2018 at 08:28 PM (#5622839)
Dunno. Is it the Miami thing? As a non-Quebecois Canadian, Florida just barely exists in my imagination. Hard to explain: I would agree with everybody else here about the historical/cultural/whatever importance of NY/LA/Chicago. Miami, in those terms, to me literally does not exist. But to Americans it's comparable to those cities?


I think it might primarily be a Pat Riley thing.
   3774. Paul d mobile Posted: February 09, 2018 at 08:34 PM (#5622841)
His jersey sold so quickly because the Miami city jersey is 5he best one they’ve made
   3775. . . . . . . Posted: February 09, 2018 at 09:02 PM (#5622854)
In terms of cultural influence Miami is closer to an SF or Chicago than a Dallas or Houston. It’s cultural relevance far exceeds its economic size (which is tiny even relative to its population)
   3776. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: February 09, 2018 at 09:15 PM (#5622859)
LeBron + no names is so much fun to watch.
   3777. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: February 09, 2018 at 09:19 PM (#5622860)
Dunno. Is it the Miami thing?

Another wrinkle is that the league loved promoting Wade. Their thinking at the time was that Wade and Howard were the guys they wanted to build around because both guys were clean cut, smiled a lot, and had no tattoos. As a result, whenever a brand came to the league without a clear plan in mind, they were encouraged to choose Dwight and/or Wade.
   3778. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 09, 2018 at 09:47 PM (#5622864)
Did LeBron just coast for a few months, forcing team management to break up a flawed roster? Can a team with a truly engaged LeBron really go 8-14?
   3779. spivey Posted: February 09, 2018 at 09:47 PM (#5622865)
Add me to a Wade fan. Yeah that one finals pissed me off and had me swear off the NBA for a year or two.

But Wade really did get fouled a lot, hard too, like LeBron. Beyond just the blocks I will always remember him as an elite defender. Him Bron and Bosh really pioneered that super switchy passing lane defense. He also shot better in the playoffs. I’d take peak Wade over Kobe for a game or a season and not think twice about it.
   3780. tshipman Posted: February 09, 2018 at 10:09 PM (#5622869)
Did LeBron just coast for a few months, forcing team management to break up a flawed roster? Can a team with a truly engaged LeBron really go 8-14?


I'm not sure why you seem to think this scenario would be better for LeBron's legacy.

If LeBron truly did tank games to force guys to get traded that would seriously damage how a lot of people would rate him.
   3781. JC in DC Posted: February 09, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5622877)
They beat Atlanta. On a night when Korver went for 30 and Green for 24. I'm not sure that is sustainable. But LBJ was definitely more engaged.
   3782. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 10, 2018 at 12:07 AM (#5622919)
They beat Atlanta. On a night when Korver went for 30 and Green for 24. I'm not sure that is sustainable. But LBJ was definitely more engaged.

They also didn't play with Love, Hood, Hill, Clarkson, etc.

I'm not sure why you seem to think this scenario would be better for LeBron's legacy.

If LeBron truly did tank games to force guys to get traded that would seriously damage how a lot of people would rate him.


I don't think it's a good look for LeBron if it is true. I also think LeBron is really in a difficult situation. Nothing he does in the regular season will change his legacy, and there's probably nothing he (or likely anyone else can do) to beat the Warriors.
   3783. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 10, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5622961)
Bulls beat the Thibserwolves last night in Jimmy and Taj first game back at the UC. The tribute videos can be overdone, but dammit if the one last night didn't hit me in the gut, for multiple reasons.

Game was extremely entertaining, lavine had his best game as a Bull yet.
   3784. tshipman Posted: February 10, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5622975)
   3785. stanmvp48 Posted: February 10, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5622976)
And in a rare statistical oddity, Toronto leads the conference in percentage but trails the Celtics by a half game.
   3786. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 10, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5622979)
dario saric's last 34 games:
17 PPG, 7.5 RPG, 3 APG
48/40/92
22% usage, 61% TS%


his efficiency appears to be durable, so the next step is to get his usage% up to around 27%.
   3787. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 10, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5622984)
And in a rare statistical oddity, Toronto leads the conference in percentage but trails the Celtics by a half game.

That can happen any time that 1 of 2 teams above .667 has played 3 more games than the other one, and won 2 of them. I don't think it's really all that rare in the NBA, where the top teams often cluster above the .700 mark.
   3788. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: February 10, 2018 at 04:38 PM (#5623009)
Over the last week, I've heard/read Lowe call LBJ the second-best player of all time. Is he a Jordan guy or a C's fan?
   3789. Tin Angel Posted: February 10, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5623017)
Over the last week, I've heard/read Lowe call LBJ the second-best player of all time. Is he a Jordan guy or a C's fan?


I think Jordan? While watching that highlight reel from last night my reaction was "Oh...uh...wow, yes I think he is the best ever." Just unbelievable.
   3790. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: February 10, 2018 at 06:59 PM (#5623038)
My ever-growing suspicion that Jason Kidd was a bad coach seems justified by the early results. It might just be a normal new coach bump, but Milwaukee is now 8-2 since firing him, is shooting more threes and fewer long twos and playing must more vigorous perimeter defense.

One thing that hasn't changed: it's amazing how almost every time Antetokounmpo sits, the Bucks' opponent immediately goes on an 11-2 run. Last night I think Miami outscored them something like 24-6 when Giannis was sitting. This kind of thing is probably pretty normal for superstars, right?

Giannis sucked on offense last night--not sure if it was just an off night or if the shrewder coaches can scheme him off his game--but he was still a force on defense and the offense played better when he was on the floor. He really forces a defense to distort itself even when he's not personally pouring 'em in.
   3791. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 10, 2018 at 07:06 PM (#5623040)
dario saric's last 34 games:
17 PPG, 7.5 RPG, 3 APG
48/40/92
22% usage, 61% TS%


his efficiency appears to be durable, so the next step is to get his usage% up to around 27%.

one more thing. i could be wrong, but i think saric's OBPM over those 34 games is 3.7. that number would be in the top 20 this year, ahead of jokic, derozan, beal, griffin, george and anthony davis.
   3792. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 10, 2018 at 07:21 PM (#5623047)
oh, and embiid is playing both ends of a back to back for the second time in his career, both in the last two weeks.
   3793. Tin Angel Posted: February 10, 2018 at 11:45 PM (#5623104)
oh, and embiid is playing both ends of a back to back for the second time in his career, both in the last two weeks.


Amazing accomplishment. Someone get that kid a trophy.
   3794. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 11, 2018 at 12:14 AM (#5623108)
Guard Marco Belinelli to sign with Philadelphia after clearing waivers
Belinelli, 31, will clear waivers and become an unrestricted free agent by Monday. After failing to find a trade it was willing to make, the Atlanta Hawks reached a buyout agreement on Belinelli's expiring $6.3 million contract.
   3795. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 11, 2018 at 12:50 AM (#5623112)
Amazing accomplishment. Someone get that kid a trophy.
gotta walk before you can crawl.
Guard Marco Belinelli to sign with Philadelphia after clearing waivers
he's better than bayless.
Marco Belinelli @marcobelinelli
TRUST THE PROCESS
   3796. stevegamer Posted: February 11, 2018 at 01:24 AM (#5623113)
Belinelli should help the Sixers. Like the move, helps a return to playoff basketball around here.
   3797. PJ Martinez Posted: February 11, 2018 at 12:28 PM (#5623182)
I would have liked to see Belinelli join the Celtics, but he's probably more assured of playing time in Philadelphia, and it sounds like that was the key for him.
   3798. CFBF Rides The Zombie Ice Dragon Posted: February 11, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5623192)
Random question: does the NBA have a disabled list, like MLB? If a player gets hurt, do you just suck up the dead roster spot until he comes back?
   3799. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 11, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5623225)
RE: DWade--he has what may be my favorite in-game dunk of all time.
   3800. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: February 11, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5623257)
Flip.
Page 38 of 40 pages ‹ First  < 36 37 38 39 40 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Harveys Wallbangers
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)
(2466 - 11:19pm, Nov 16)
Last: Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean

NewsblogSale of Baseball Prospectus
(315 - 10:55pm, Nov 16)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

NewsblogMichael Wilbon Weighs In On Jacob deGrom With Worst Baseball Take Of Year | MLB | NESN.com
(8 - 10:45pm, Nov 16)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

Sox TherapyLet’s Get Off-Seasoning!
(5 - 10:40pm, Nov 16)
Last: Jay Seaver

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (November 2018)
(433 - 10:09pm, Nov 16)
Last: Morty Causa

NewsblogMarlins get rid of orange, cite South Florida cultures with new look
(28 - 8:57pm, Nov 16)
Last: You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR)

NewsblogHow Kevin Brown Became Baseball's First $100 Million Man
(9 - 8:46pm, Nov 16)
Last: TVerik, who wonders what the hell is "Ansky"

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 11-16-2018
(10 - 8:30pm, Nov 16)
Last: crict

NewsblogIndians' Trevor Bauer pleads his own Cy Young case using a spreadsheet on Twitter
(24 - 8:01pm, Nov 16)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogFox Sports inks multi-year rights agreement with Major League Baseball
(30 - 8:00pm, Nov 16)
Last: QLE

NewsblogJoe Mauer Retires After 15 Seasons
(84 - 6:44pm, Nov 16)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(1216 - 5:35pm, Nov 16)
Last: AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther

NewsblogYelich, Betts Win MVPs
(54 - 5:28pm, Nov 16)
Last: The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott)

NewsblogHow Mets, deGrom could get their contract extension done
(4 - 5:18pm, Nov 16)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogAL Central Offseason Preview
(16 - 4:51pm, Nov 16)
Last: Walt Davis

Page rendered in 0.6609 seconds
46 querie(s) executed