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Monday, July 02, 2012

OT: NBA basketball July Thread 2012

I estimate that only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what the site is really about: Jim Furtado trolling his own site when he’s bored.

Tripon Posted: July 02, 2012 at 04:21 PM | 2487 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball

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   1001. GregD Posted: July 14, 2012 at 05:31 PM (#4182509)
double flip

anyone think the Knicks are going to match Landry Fields? While the talk has been no, their questions are really just

1) is he better than a league minimum player
2) is Dolan willing to pay the insane tax for a player who is above minimum but not close to worth his contract, much less his contract plus penalties?

Fields' contract doesn't limit the Knicks' flexibility; they don't have any. And saying no doesn't let them grab anybody else. And Dolan, whatever his faults, has never to my knowledge said no to a deal because of cost. So I kind of assume they'll match even the contract is obviously absurd.
   1002. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 14, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4182511)
Rumored Haywood bid = 2.05m (per yr, 3 yr)

A lot of teams should call Darko, yeah.

So... why was the Brand bid so low?
   1003. Booey Posted: July 14, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4182513)
[993] And I still think Beavis and Butthead is hilarious.


See, that's what I want to believe too. I'm afraid that watching it again will ruin the wonderful memories I have of that show, so I've resisted the urge to re-visit it. Doing that as an adult has already shattered my awesome youth memories of He-Man, Thundercats, GI Joe, Transformers, and TMNT. I refuse to let it happen to B&B, too.
   1004. rr Posted: July 14, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4182514)
ISTM that Brand is a guy you want only if you have a veteran squad, looking to contend/maximize this year's win total, and most teams like that do not have much cap space. That is not a knock on Brand; the player I saw in post-season with the 76ers is a pretty good guy to have. But the market for him would be pretty limited.
   1005. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 14, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4182520)
I see that logic, but don't understand it. Brand required only a one year commitment and has a strong rep for professionalism, useful to a rebuilding club. Yes, he's missing the big advantage Haywood has of being 7-0 275, w/ solid lateral quickness (as opposed to 6-9 275 and slow), but I still go for the former (Brand is, I think we'd agree, a significanly better player, even way past prime).
I suppose you could argue that the one year deal is a bad thing, in that Scola or Haywood could be flipped in a year, but Brand can't be dealt during his post-amnesty days, but ... that seems insufficient.
   1006. PJ Martinez Posted: July 14, 2012 at 06:05 PM (#4182540)
@SpearsNBAYahoo Frontrunners for free agent center Darko Milicic are Boston, Brooklyn and LA Clippers, league source tells Y! Sports.
   1007. rr Posted: July 14, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4182543)
Well, I think almost anybody would take Brand, but if I have a building team, I am not sure that I want to spend 3 or 4M and 25 MPG on him at this point. I would have to look at all the teams that could have had him in more detail to say for sure "They should have bid more" but you may be right.
   1008. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 14, 2012 at 07:33 PM (#4182590)
I'd have to judge brand on a team by team basis, but: he'd arguably the best player on Charlotte (hope not), is semi-local, could slot at either the four or five, leaves the lane open for slashers like kemba, and teach Bismack a thing or two about how to use his body in space (to name one team).
   1009. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 14, 2012 at 09:21 PM (#4182663)
Are the Knicks really going to let Lin walk?
   1010. PJ Martinez Posted: July 14, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4182687)
@SpearsNBAYahoo Jeremy Lin appears close to being a Houston Rocket with Raymond Felton to NY deal close to being done, sources tell Y!

@alanhahn Meanwhile Knicks have confirmed they did not match Raptors' offer sheet to Landry Fields
   1011. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: July 14, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4182688)
I'm done with the Knicks. I really can't support this #### any longer.
   1012. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 14, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4182691)
Rumor!
Cj Watson to BRK, 2 yr at min, yr 2 a p-opt
   1013. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 14, 2012 at 09:50 PM (#4182695)
If rockets land Lin and Asik, what's their offer for Howard look like?
   1014. tshipman Posted: July 14, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4182700)
Finding it hard to believe that they're not matching Lin.

Doesn't that signing pay for itself in merch? Like even with the luxury tax?
   1015. JJ1986 Posted: July 14, 2012 at 10:03 PM (#4182719)
How are the Knicks going to fit Felton? Portland doesn't want to pay Dan Gadzuric $3 million +.
   1016. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: July 14, 2012 at 10:06 PM (#4182726)
How are the Knicks going to fit Felton?

Heh.
   1017. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 14, 2012 at 10:13 PM (#4182732)
1014 - that's a lot of merch - esp if the team doesn't believe in him

Irving's hand is in a cast
   1018. PJ Martinez Posted: July 14, 2012 at 10:22 PM (#4182740)
@SpearsNBAYahoo Rockets found loophole that would cost them $8 million on third year of Lin offer sheet and Knicks $15 million, source tells Y! Sports.
   1019. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 14, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4182742)
This loophole is news to no one - same thing they did w Asik. Costs HOU ~8m in yrs 1 and 2, NYK only 5m
   1020. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 14, 2012 at 10:32 PM (#4182758)
I'm done with the Knicks. I really can't support this #### any longer.

You're linsane. He had 20 good games, with no track record of ever doing it before. And those 20 games weren't even that great. I would hate for my team to blow 25m on that.
   1021. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 14, 2012 at 11:01 PM (#4182767)
felton and kurt thomas to nyk
gadzuric and jeffries to por
(per isola, ny daily news)

not sure how that would work
   1022. PJ Martinez Posted: July 14, 2012 at 11:19 PM (#4182778)
1019: Well, it seemed like news to Spears for some reason, but I'm sure you're right that it's exactly the same thing everyone's been talking about since the contract was offered. Perhaps some Rockets source was spinning Spears and he didn't connect the dots for a sec. Or he just didn't realize that everyone already understands this part of the deal. Or something.
   1023. tshipman Posted: July 14, 2012 at 11:23 PM (#4182780)
1014 - that's a lot of merch - esp if the team doesn't believe in him


So a name/number t-shirt is $30, and a jersey is $200.

Let's say you sell 10 t-shirts for every jersey. Lin's offer is 24 million over three years. The Knicks have to sell a half a million t-shirts and jerseys to pay for the signing in merch.

Is that so unreasonable?
   1024. PJ Martinez Posted: July 14, 2012 at 11:39 PM (#4182785)
Can't tell how serious 1023 is, but obviously jerseys cost money to make and the revenue is divided among the league, the team, and (I'm just guessing on this last one) the manufacturer. Also, jerseys, if I'm not mistaken, cost < $100.
   1025. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 14, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4182786)
Is that so unreasonable?

Yes. For one, their profit margin is not 100% of sales.
   1026. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:33 AM (#4182836)
Also, what's the Knicks cut of profits, as opposed to league or manufacturers...
   1027. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:34 AM (#4182839)
Plus, it's not the 24m - it's the luxury tax on it (minus what they pay his replacement, presumably 3m per yr). Their marginal tax rate will be enormous... (several hundred percent)
   1028. GregD Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:04 AM (#4182848)
Still can't believe the Knicks won't pull the trigger on Lin. Won't believe it till I see it.
   1029. rr Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:29 AM (#4182855)
I am with GregD: I find it hard to believe, even with Felton around, that the Knicks will just let Lin walk.

DK: Those are fair points, but the question is are those things worth more than 2.1M to the Bobcats? I agree that they need some NBA pros around to mentor, etc. but either way, they are likely going about 20-62 next year.

Also, the 50K one-on-one game with Kobe Bryant will have to wait:

Kyrie Irving, the NBA's reigning rookie of the year, broke his right hand during the Cavaliers' practice on Saturday in Las Vegas.

Irving will return to Cleveland to be examined by team doctors Sunday and said he likely will undergo surgery. The Cavs said in a release Saturday night that they expect Irving, their leading scorer last season who recently dazzled during scrimmages against the U.S. Olympic team, to be ready for the start of training camp in late September. However, the team said it will not have a timeline for Irving's return until after he is examined.

The team said Irving injured his hand slapping the padding on a wall at the team's practice site. The injury occurred after Irving committed a turnover toward the end of the morning practice. Irving was in Las Vegas practicing with Cleveland's summer league team
   1030. rr Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:48 AM (#4182857)
Edit--even with Felton and Kidd around, since Kidd is big enough to play off the ball and is actually really slow for a 1 now.
   1031. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 15, 2012 at 06:42 AM (#4182868)
If what's being reported is accurate, this is one of the strangest offseasons I can remember, between:

-- The Minnesota/Portland nuclear standoff -- why is Minnesota offering so much when Portland's not going to match anyway, and why are the Blazers holding out for more?
-- How can it make sense for Jeremy Lin to not play in New York given the amazing narrative and surplus of Asians and so on? The Ray Felton move isn't terrible in isolation, but ... wow, it's just so weird in context.
-- How is Orlando not taking the Houston mega-offer for Dwight? I think this is a terrible move by the Rockets, by the way -- the team they are putting together (reportedly) does not produce a team that's better than Howard's Orlando team this year (let alone previous iterations). Also, why sign Asik to this ambitious offer sheet if you're going after Howard to supersede him?
-- Toronto's crazy random Landry Fields gambit. Even at the time, this seemed ridiculous... Nash was realistically going to pick where he went via a S&T anyway so who cares about cap shenanigans?
-- Jeff Green's contract which it's very hard to imagine is within a factor of 2 of his actual value.

The Joe Johnson trade may be the most reasonable thing that's happened in the past couple weeks. Lots of head-scratchers.
   1032. Spivey Posted: July 15, 2012 at 07:31 AM (#4182872)
Did the Jeff Green 4/36 deal actually happen? I haven't seen any confirmation of that.
   1033. billyshears Posted: July 15, 2012 at 07:44 AM (#4182874)
I'm done with the Knicks. I really can't support this #### any longer.


If they let Lin walk, I'm out too. Let's try to count the number of young and exciting players the Knicks have had in the last 30 years. There was Patrick Ewing. And Mark Jackson. And then there was . . . John Starks? David Lee? Danilo Gallinari? When the Knicks had Top 10 draft picks they took Michael Sweetney, Channing Frye and Jordan Hill. Or they traded the opportunity to pick Amare for the rotting corpse of Antonio McDyess. Or they traded 2 Top 10 picks for Eddy Curry. They have continually picked stiff over athletic. Safe over exciting. Old over young. And now, an actual young, exciting player who became a global sensation falls into the Knicks lap and they're going to let him go over $10 mil or so? After they have spent the past 15 years giving billions of dollars to Allan Houston, Glen Rice, Steve Francis, Eddie Curry and Stephon Marbury? After they let Scott Layden and Isiah Thomas run the team into the ground for 10 years?

I really can't express how angry this makes me. The only thing I can analogize it to is the Scott Kazmir trade. Knicks fans get 1 player who they go crazy for and they're going to let him walk so they can sign Ray Felton? You have to be ####### kidding me.
   1034. bob gee Posted: July 15, 2012 at 09:08 AM (#4182891)
i've rooted against the knicks for a while. it was partly because of the dirty play in the 90s, partly because of their fans, and partly because of the dolans. even with that, i can appreciate their positives - van gundy was a very good coach, ewing was so underappreciated by the knicks fans at the time, stuff like that.

my anti-knicks fever picked up when they fired someone (lenny wilkens?) because he wouldn't kiss up to the dolans, and when they hired isiah thomas, i was in all my glory. i loved his rotisserie league style trades, and thought things were awesome!

then they hired donnie walsh, and i was uncomfortable. and unfortunately walsh did a ton of really good things for the knicks. i found it hard to root against the players he assembled. then this year happened, and lin (who i've been following since his summer league exploits against wall) was signed, crashed and burned his first game, then lit up the world for a few weeks, and finally showed solid promise with good production when the league started to double team him. the team was easy to root for, and i have to admit, i was rooting for the knicks to win if lin was closing the game happened. even though dolan officially screwed over donnie walsh.

then the injury. that's my biggest concern, and i'm so glad he did NOT try to rush back for a futile series against the heat.

so lin's gone. they still have some players who work well in a team game at the present (melo CAN work well in a team game if he wants to but that's an if, chandler, novak, shumpert), but jr smith? kidd and felton aren't very good, amare plays the matador D and isn't a good fit with anthony out there. camby and thomas won't be big contributors unless stoudamire /chandler gets hurt.

it makes it much easier to root against them again...and they're locked in with a partly aging team without a bunch of their future draft picks. so what if they get 40-45 wins this year? it's good times again!

edit: btw, part of my rooting for lin is because he plays the game very smart. he's an excellent off-ball defender, he's not good at man-on ball defending for faster point guards but is acceptable if he has a decent defensive player behind him (stoudamire = awful, but with jeffries or chandler back there, his defense wasn't as big a hole), knows who and when to pass it, and plays within himself most of the time.

   1035. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 15, 2012 at 09:40 AM (#4182900)
DK: Those are fair points, but the question is are those things worth more than 2.1M to the Bobcats?

Apparently not (they didn't get him), but I think that they should be.
And - this may be heterodoxical - their possible 20-62 record is an argument for having him, imo. There's little to no benefit in being 15-67 v. 20-62 (unless you want to argue that being mega bad increases your chances of lotto picks for a sustained number of years and that that's good). There is a benefit in being 20-62 versus say, 30-52 - if you're one of the worst two or three teams, you're going to get a really good pick, if you're not, you might not. Plus, Brand's not really blocking anybody there.
Oh well - minor point about a minor team.

why is Minnesota offering so much when Portland's not going to match anyway, and why are the Blazers holding out for more?

There's talk that this is a Paul Allen v. the Portland org thing - and that he feels personally slighted by the T-Wolves org.

As for HOU/Lin - the Knicks could never make him a big offer, only match one + Houston has a strong history of marketing to China (in Yao's heyday, didn't even the scrubs on the team have shoe deals there?)

I'm agnostic as to whether Lin goes or not - but I wouldn't be surprised if he does.
   1036. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:14 AM (#4182910)
You're linsane. He had 20 good games, with no track record of ever doing it before. And those 20 games weren't even that great. I would hate for my team to blow 25m on that.
The problem here is that you're acting as if the Knicks can easily just spend that $25M elsewhere. The salary cap structure of the NBA means the Knicks can't just take that money and use it to get a star. What a capped out team can easily do with their money is retain players. So what the Knicks have to do is find a star, somehow, and then retain him. Lin may well not be that star, but Lin has a better chance of actually being the star that the Knicks need than anyone else on their roster, and certainly than Ray Felton.
   1037. I am going to be Frank Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4182946)
I really can't believe they would let Lin go. My parents and their circle of friends would watch every Knicks game. Hell even I watched some Knicks games and I despise them, but with Dolan anything is possible.
   1038. PJ Martinez Posted: July 15, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4182984)
Did the Jeff Green 4/36 deal actually happen? I haven't seen any confirmation of that.

It's not official yet: "President of basketball operations Danny Ainge would not reveal why Green and Terry have not put their names on the dotted line, but it looks like the move is being made to give the Celtics breathing room to pursue another free agent."

With Terry, this makes sense: Boston is trying to work out a sign & trade with Dallas so they can use the MLE on someone like Courtney Lee. But I have no idea what the hold-up with Green's contract would be. I hope it has something to do with not actually giving him $9m a year, but who knows.
   1039. andrewberg Posted: July 15, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4182994)
The Portland stuff has been really weird, partially because there is a petulant, irrational team involved and it's not the timberwolves.
   1040. JuanGone..except1game Posted: July 15, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4183019)
New Howard rumor:
DHO to Lakers, Bynum to Cavs, Prospects/picks to ORL

A Cleveland package might actually trump any Rockets deal, especially if the Lakers or Cavs will take on at least one of ORL's bad contracts. The Cavs not only have their 2013 pick, but they own MIA's 2013 lottery protected #1, SAC's 2013 top 13 protected #1 and MIA's 2015 #1. That doesn't even count Dion Walters, Tristan Thompson and Tyler Zeller as trade assets. Cleveland's biggest fear has to be losing Kyrie at some point in the future so giving him Bynum, who apparently is willing to sign a long term with Cleveland, could be a great set up for their future.
   1041. Moses Taylor Posted: July 15, 2012 at 12:56 PM (#4183028)
I'm surprised Watson only got the vet's minimum. Good get for the Nets.

rodboone: Melo on #Knicks Lin saga: "It's not up to me. It's up to the organization to say that they want to match that ridiculous contract."


Uh...
   1042. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4183042)
Source: N.Y. to let Jeremy Lin walkThe Screamin' A. Smith commentary was interesting. According to him, the Knicks believed that his ego's swelled, and he didn't have that same level of appreciation for his success that he did before.

I hope he leaves. F those guys, trashing him on his way out.
   1043. The District Attorney Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4183048)
Bynum, who apparently is willing to sign a long term with Cleveland
What's that based on?
   1044. madvillain Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4183057)
Pretty ironic that Carmelo called the Lin offer "ridiculous", this coming from a guy that benefited hugely from his own ridiculous offer. The Knicks realize that at the end of the day, MSG is going to be filled regardless if they re-sign Lin or not.

I doubt Lin is going to be anything more than an average starting PG, yea it's a useful piece, but it's not the piece the Knicks need to win a title. Of course, neither is Ray Felton. Jimmy Dolan is in charge, that's good for at least one head scratcher every other month or so.
   1045. PJ Martinez Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:38 PM (#4183070)
What's that based on?

Woj.
   1046. Tripon Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4183075)
The Knicks realize that at the end of the day, MSG is going to be filled regardless if they re-sign Lin or not.


Is that really true? I thought part of the story with Lin was that he was actually bringing in more people into the stands.
   1047. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4183076)
I doubt Lin is going to be anything more than an average starting PG, yea it's a useful piece, but it's not the piece the Knicks need to win a title.

The people making comments like this just don't get it. Anyone with any semblance of a brain know that due to the contracts given to Melo and Amar'e it is not possible for the Knicks to win a title barring a lot of deaths of important members of several teams. We know that. We also know what Ray Felton is. Ray Felton is a middling PG. Correction, Ray Felton WAS a middling PG before he started looking like THIS. So, if you are a capped out team with (literally) 1 or 2 draft picks over the next 4-5 years (no, seriously, check that for a good laugh) and you won't be able to sign anyone any way it makes ABSOLUTELY NO ####### SENSE TO CHOOSE A PG ROTATION OF RAYMOND ####### FELTON AND JASON "JUST GOT A DWI THIS ####### MORNING" KIDD OVER THE POSSIBILITY OF JEREMY LIN!!! Jeremy Lin might suck, he might be awesome, or he may just be Ray Felton. The point is, you don't know and if you don't know you have to take the chance in this situation. As for the economic argument...after all the money spent on Jerome James, Eddy Curry, Allan Houston, Larry Brown, Isiah Thomas' sex scandal, etc...for the Knicks to choose now to tighten the belt...give me a ####### break.
   1048. The District Attorney Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4183083)
Really! I guess it's probably entirely due to Kyrie... either that, or Bynum wants to take his talents to Lake Erie (or he loves Comic Sans). Anyway, go Bynum, that's nice.
   1049. rr Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4183093)
My own hit on Bynum, as I have said, is that he will sign anywhere that offers him a max deal, in spite of what he has supposedly said about ORL, HOU, CLE etc.

Also, being on a young team as a guy people want to have around rather than being the guy THE KOBE LAKERS STILL have because they didn't get Dwight Howard might appeal to him. He has already been in two parades and has been asked Howard questions for literally two years now.
   1050. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:11 PM (#4183101)
I assume this is impossible but... when you sign a guy like Lin off the scrap heap, why doesn't a team just add (say) 2 t-opt years to it, standard? I'd think the generic guy in this situation would jump at the chance to get a major league deal. I'm assuming this is forbidden for some sort of CBA reason?
   1051. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4183102)
Agree on Bynum, robinred.
   1052. rr Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4183107)
FWIW, one CLE writer has apparently said there is nothing to the rumor.
   1053. GregD Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:29 PM (#4183181)
Twitter, which is never wrong, tells me Grant Hill is leaning to the Knicks for the sake of his wife's singing career. Wd be four of the five oldest players in the league. Maybe they're trying to win the Seniors Tour?
   1054. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4183183)
Bill Simmons basically thinks Knick fans should jump to the Nets. www.twitter.com/sportsguy33

If Lin actually walks, I'll be seriously bummed out. But so long as it works out, I think it'd be foolhardy to leave. So, uh, why leave now?
   1055. AROM Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:01 PM (#4183216)
Unless they actually get Howard, I don't think the Nets are any better than the Knicks. Neither team is a real contender, just first round playoff fodder for the good teams.
   1056. billyshears Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4183223)
The people making comments like this just don't get it. Anyone with any semblance of a brain know that due to the contracts given to Melo and Amar'e it is not possible for the Knicks to win a title barring a lot of deaths of important members of several teams. We know that. We also know what Ray Felton is. Ray Felton is a middling PG. Correction, Ray Felton WAS a middling PG before he started looking like THIS. So, if you are a capped out team with (literally) 1 or 2 draft picks over the next 4-5 years (no, seriously, check that for a good laugh) and you won't be able to sign anyone any way it makes ABSOLUTELY NO ####### SENSE TO CHOOSE A PG ROTATION OF RAYMOND ####### FELTON AND JASON "JUST GOT A DWI THIS ####### MORNING" KIDD OVER THE POSSIBILITY OF JEREMY LIN!!! Jeremy Lin might suck, he might be awesome, or he may just be Ray Felton. The point is, you don't know and if you don't know you have to take the chance in this situation. As for the economic argument...after all the money spent on Jerome James, Eddy Curry, Allan Houston, Larry Brown, Isiah Thomas' sex scandal, etc...for the Knicks to choose now to tighten the belt...give me a ####### break.


Amen.

The one thing I would add is that the Knicks organization is the only consistently bad organization that goes out of it's way to crush hope. Draft Picks? We don't need them. Young players? We prefer proven mediocrities. I mean, they really think 45 wins and a #6 seed is a big ####### accomplishment. Lin may suck. I understand that. But if he's actually as good as he looked like he could be, it's a pretty big deal. And the fans love Lin. The entire ####### world loves Lin. And we're going to let him go because we can get Raymond ####### Felton to replace him? This isn't Chirs Paul, or even Steve Nash. It's another player who will never be as good as he used to be and who will never be close to being good enough. It's ####### appalling.
   1057. King Mekong Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:25 PM (#4183238)
Is Bynum a good PnR big? Don't seem to think he is given my recollection of Spurs v Lakers. Obviously the Cavs should try to get him, but it looks like Kyrie is going to be pretty elite at the PnR if my memory of pruiti on grantland is correct. I've forgotten where I can access that sort of data for free at... anyone got a good list of sites for advanced hoop stats? I think it's time for me to actually book mark them. I mostly use basketball-reference.
   1058. rr Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4183260)


   1059. rr Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:44 PM (#4183261)
Is Bynum a good PnR big?


No, not particularly.

   1060. Spivey Posted: July 15, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4183271)
Edit: Quack.
   1061. rr Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:07 PM (#4183280)
Asked if he could envision Lin being with the Knicks next season, Anthony said: "At this point there's a lot going on. I stay away from that part right now. I would love to see him back, but I think he has to do what's best for him right now."

Anthony, speaking before practice with the U.S. Olympic team, was then reminded it's up to the Knicks, not Lin, to decide whether he stays or goes.

"It's not up to me," Anthony said with a laugh. "It's up to the organization to say they want to match that ridiculous contract that's out there

But Felton also had a good run in New York, scoring 17.1 points per game in 54 games before the Knicks sent him to Denver in February 2011 as part of the package for Anthony. Felton and Amare Stoudemire had good chemistry running the pick-and-roll offense, and neither has played as well since they were split up.

"I never played with Felton so I really don't know what to expect from that situation. I can't wait if that's the case," Anthony said. "I know what he did with the New York Knicks before I even got there with Amare. I know Amare's excited about that, playing with him before I got there, so they can reunite and hopefully we make something happen."


http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8168386/carmelo-anthony-says-ridiculous-jeremy-lin-deal-new-york-knicks
   1062. PJ Martinez Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4183284)
@ESPNSteinLine The NBA's 30 teams have just been notified that Phoenix has won waiver auction for Luis Scola
   1063. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4183286)
Phoenix starting lineup of: Dragic, Dudley, Beasley, Scola, Gortat?
   1064. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4183296)
Suns amnesty Childress to make room for Scola.
   1065. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4183298)
Phoenix's current bigs: Gortat, Scola, Frye, Keef Morris, Warrick; Lopez is RFA. Is Beasley a 3 or 4?
   1066. PJ Martinez Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4183299)
Windhorst thinks by amnestying Childress they might be making room for Mayo.
   1067. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4183303)
Most of the commentary I've read on the Knicks and Nets has been kind of nonsensical - way too up or too down. Maybe I've been going to wrong places on the interwebs.

Beasley: Has been better at the four, looks like Pho wants to use him as a three. I've argued here that he's a three but think I was mistaken.

I can't unsee this.

Moke Hamilton on a point I was trying to make upthread:
If, for argument’s sake, the Knicks payroll was equal to the luxury tax threshold, adding an extra $15 million for Jeremy Lin’s salary would cost the Knicks a total of $43 million. They’d have to pay Lin’s salary, and the luxury tax payment for a team $15 million over the cap—in 2014-2015—will be about $28 million.
Now, after adding Felton, retaining Lin becomes even more expensive.
If the Knicks match Lin’s offer and end up being $19 million above the luxury tax threshold [in part] because of it, they would owe $41.75 million in luxury tax penalties, and when you include Lin’s $15 million salary, his total cost could be about $57 million.
   1068. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4183305)
With Scola acquired, will the Suns still go after OJ Mayo?

Windhorst thinks by amnestying Childress they might be making room for Mayo.


I thought they just amnestyed Childress to get Scola?
   1069. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4183307)
Childress savings may exceed Scola need. In any case, Scola's in, Josh's out, and Mayo's in play.
   1070. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:44 PM (#4183308)
Keef Morris finished Summer League action vs. the Knicks with a 21 and 9. Twitter-world was raving about him.
   1071. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:44 PM (#4183309)
Childress was $6.5/7.1/7.3 (Player option). Scola is ~$10M for the next 3 years. SO this does clear off some cap space for them.
   1072. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4183312)
Is at minimum ~10m over 3 yrs. But, yes.

Man, I just looked at Childress's numbers. Bad, bad season. I knew about the 0 FTM in 491 minutes. Did not know that opposing small forwards posted a eFG% of 66.5% (!) against him (his synergy defensive rank was 445th on d).
   1073. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 15, 2012 at 05:55 PM (#4183318)
The Suns are putting together a weird team, but a nice collection of assets.
   1074. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 15, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4183320)

Man, I just looked at Childress's numbers. Bad, bad season. I knew about the 0 FTM in 491 minutes. Did not know that opposing small forwards posted a eFG% of 66.5% (!) against him (his synergy defensive rank was 445th on d).
And he was going to make $13.6M over the next two years with a $7.3M player option after that. All in all, not exactly a great signing by the Suns.
   1075. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: July 15, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4183331)
Ah, Stephen A. Smith. Lin is going to Houston because he knows he's not good enough to be a star in New York, as evidenced by his unwillingness to play injured in the playoffs.

Good to have Screamin' A. back after that brief moment where Skip Bayless made him look like the most reasonable person in the room.
   1076. Spivey Posted: July 15, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4183333)
I actually kinda like that Phoenix lineup if they weren't going to give Beasley significant minutes.
   1077. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 15, 2012 at 07:02 PM (#4183347)
From a Phx radio guy:
OJ Mayo came to town but Suns made no contract offer. He wants 8 mill + a year and for Phx to be interested that price has to come down.
   1078. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 15, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4183348)
OJ Mayo came to town but Suns made no contract offer. He wants 8 mill + a year and for Phx to be interested that price has to come down.


Is there any team that will pay Mayo $8M/year? If so, why?
   1079. PJ Martinez Posted: July 15, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4183355)
Asked if Lin's contract could cause a challenging dynamic with his teammates, Smith agreed.

"Without a doubt," he said. "I think some guys take it personal, because they've been doing it longer and haven't received any reward for it yet. I think it's a tough subject to touch on for a lot of guys."
   1080. JJ1986 Posted: July 15, 2012 at 07:31 PM (#4183356)
They should be much more upset about Stoudemire being paid so much to suck.
   1081. PJ Martinez Posted: July 15, 2012 at 07:56 PM (#4183369)
Stoudemire has paid his dues, though. Lin was good for 20 games and the whole world went bananas. And part of that was because he's Asian-American. I imagine that plays a role in the feeling Smith's describing, too. No idea, obviously, whether he's correct about other guys taking it personally, but it does, rightly or wrongly, suggest another context for Melo's offhand comment.
   1082. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 15, 2012 at 08:54 PM (#4183400)
Scola getting $13.5MM over 3 years or $9MM over 2; in Year 3, less than $.5MM is guaranteed.
   1083. The District Attorney Posted: July 15, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4183407)
The writers seem to think Melo meant more "it's ridiculous that a contract can be structured that way" than "it's ridiculous to give Jeremy Lin that much money." I suppose either way he's ultimately stating that Lin isn't going to justify that contract, but I think it's a lot more of a putdown if intended in the latter fashion than in the former.

There may be courthouse intrigue going on here. Linsanity occurred under the now-fired coach, and when neither Melo nor Amar'e was around. Who's Lin's ally gonna be? Steve Novak? Melo, for his part, played much better when Lin was out. Amar'e played well with Felton at PG, and whaddaya know, now Felton's back. I certainly don't think Melo, Amar'e and/or Woodson went to Dolan and said "get rid of Lin" and/or "get us Felton." But if you ask your stars and/or coach whether you should give a guy a contract that could easily pay him over $50 million in a single season and their response is "meh", that would likely affect your decision...
   1084. rr Posted: July 15, 2012 at 09:30 PM (#4183415)
LScola4 Luis Scola
Now its time to change my twitter picture...
18 minutes ago
LScola4 Luis Scola
Special thanks to the Houston Rockets organization, you make my dream come true and I will never forget that neither.
   1085. JuanGone..except1game Posted: July 15, 2012 at 09:48 PM (#4183420)
They should be much more upset about Stoudemire being paid so much to suck.


I know that its easy to crap on the rest of the Knicks, but Lin's contract is pretty insane based upon what we know. He's a guy who would have basically been cut 3x in 2 years, plays a couple dozen good to great games of basketball, gets injured, refuses to come back from injury when his team is in the playoffs, and now he's going to get paid near max money in 3 years. Add to that, and these are rumors, that he was insulted by the Knicks not making him a huge offer Lin's received a ton of goodwill because of his story and he's well within his right to leave, but I can kind of understand why this move isn't going over well with some people.
   1086. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4183426)
I know that its easy to crap on the rest of the Knicks, but Lin's contract is pretty insane based upon what we know. He's a guy who would have basically been cut 3x in 2 years, plays a couple dozen good to great games of basketball, gets injured, refuses to come back from injury when his team is in the playoffs, and now he's going to get paid near max money in 3 years.
Lin is getting that high of a salary only because of the way the system is set up. Since the Knicks are allowed to match any offer, the only way that another Team is getting Lin is if they ridiculously overpay. If he was an unrestricted FA, there uses no way he gets that $15M third year.

But that is the only way that the Rockets could sign him away from the Knicks.
   1087. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4183427)
whether you should give a guy a contract that could easily pay him over $50 million

and

refuses to come back from injury when his team is in the playoffs

:: Sigh ::
   1088. Zipperholes Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:15 PM (#4183431)
refuses to come back from injury when his team is in the playoffs
???
   1089. Tripon Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:16 PM (#4183432)
Enraged that Lin took those assurances back to the negotiating table in Houston -- ESPNNewYork.com reported last week that Lin was pushing for more cash from Houston -- the Knicks responded by bringing back a cheaper alternative, Raymond Felton, and by telling Lin to get lost. According to a source close to the situation, Jim Dolan, a notorious grudge-holder, feels betrayed that the Harvard kid took him to school after the Knicks gave him his big shot.


http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8168735/ian-oconnor-new-york-knicks-match-houston-rockets-offer-jeremy-lin
   1090. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:16 PM (#4183433)
refuses to come back from injury when his team is in the playoffs
When did this become a thing? Does anybody really believe a healthy Lin lifts the Knicks over Miami?

Just to refresh, here's the Heat's margin of victory over that series: +33, +10, +17, -2, +12.
   1091. tshipman Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:22 PM (#4183437)
Phoenix starting lineup of: Dragic, Dudley, Beasley, Scola, Gortat?


So ... this is pretty shitty, right? I mean, some of those guys are sorta interesting individually, but none of them are really first options on offense. Also, it's a pretty poor defensive line-up.

Interesting pieces, but they're capped out and they might win less than 40 games. Not a fan of the Suns' offseason. If they were going to make these moves, why not try to hold on to Nash?

I know that its easy to crap on the rest of the Knicks, but Lin's contract is pretty insane based upon what we know.


I also don't get what Houston's purpose is in this deal. Is it still to angle for Howard?
   1092. Tripon Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:25 PM (#4183440)
Houston's purpose is to get a PG and help get a slice of the global Chinese market that they're been missing for a while with Yao Ming retired. Heck, this might get Yao to come back. :)
   1093. Tripon Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4183441)
Willis Reed: "Jeremy Lin reminds me so much of Walt Frazier. It's how Jeremy controls the game, gets the ball to the right people for easy baskets, the lobs he's throwing to Tyson Chandler -- it all reminds me of Clyde."

Bob Cousy: "He's got the physical skills to reach a good, very good, or great level in this league. He's exactly what the Knicks needed, a leader and someone to distribute the ball as opposed to a bunch of guys just letting it fly."

Pete Carril: "Jeremy's innocent, he's young, he has no agenda, he throws the ball to the right guy. He's awfully fast, he can shoot, he can dribble and it doesn't look like he cares about playing for stats or money."
   1094. JC in DC Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4183453)
NJ:

I don't get the outrage. The Dolan era is characterized by overpaying for "name" talent: guys who looked better than they are, guys Isiah or Layden or whoever else became enamored with and giving away youth, picks, and money for. Isn't one read of this that Grunwald (no mentino of him in any of this?) concluded that Lin is too costly (given salary and taxes) and not quite good enough? That they would be better off with a cheaper PG situation? That maybe, just maybe, this will be the beginning of a different era of Knicks bball that doesn't overpay for name? I keep hearing everyone talk about how marketable he'll be. I don't care. I want to win. The Knicks are marketable as winners. Lin won't be Linsanity in Houston. Maybe Lin would help them win more this year. Maybe even probably. But that's a lot of money to tie up on him.
   1095. andrewberg Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4183455)
The suns are trying to build last year's pacers but with no defense.
   1096. tshipman Posted: July 15, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4183458)
The suns are trying to build last year's pacers but with no defense.


Wow. That's uncanny. They're slightly worse than the Pacers at every position, I think. That's quite hard to do.
   1097. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:01 PM (#4183462)
[1094] All of that would matter if the Knicks weren't already capped out. They are.
   1098. JJ1986 Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:01 PM (#4183463)
Well, they're much worse at small forward.
   1099. JC in DC Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:05 PM (#4183464)
[1094] All of that would matter if the Knicks weren't already capped out. They are.


So they should just keep overpaying players?
   1100. GregD Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:08 PM (#4183466)
The money they don't pay Lin just goes into Dolan's pocket. They can't use that "saved" money to get better players. Unless they think they can get a better player for minimum, or unless Dolan suddenly has cash issues, they should in fact overpay players given their terrible cap situation. I'm not convinced they shouldn't have ridiculously overpaid Fields.
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