Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, July 02, 2012

OT: NBA basketball July Thread 2012

I estimate that only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what the site is really about: Jim Furtado trolling his own site when he’s bored.

Tripon Posted: July 02, 2012 at 04:21 PM | 2487 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 17 of 25 pages ‹ First  < 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 >  Last ›
   1601. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 25, 2012 at 06:18 PM (#4192249)
AP reporting the Suns/Wolves/Hornets deal is done.
   1602. andrewberg Posted: July 25, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4192253)
And woj says ak agreed to sign with the wolves.
   1603. Booey Posted: July 25, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4192257)
I think most of Denver's guys have topped out, though. What you see is what you're going to get, and it's just not good enough to jump into that contender group.


Agreed.
   1604. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: July 25, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4192260)
That's pretty much what I think about them, and also why I don't see them as being clearly better than the Jazz, for example. They have some nice pieces, but like the Jazz, teams without a true superstar generally have a ceiling as to how good they can be, and that ceiling is usually less than 50 wins. I see Memphis as a bit of an exception - I don't see them as being a true championship contender without a top 10 type player, but the Gay/Randolph/Gasol trio is pretty damn good and should easily lift them above the Utah's and Denver's.

They were 2 games better last year, and Gallo missed a third of the season. They had other various injury issues, but those seemed to be clumped at one time versus a number of guys missing a bunch of time. They also won 50 games the year before, at a higher winning percentage once they traded Melo IIRC. I don't see an argument that the Jazz are that close to them, quite frankly.

I haven't followed their team too closely, but do any of Denver's youngens have the upside of Favors, or even Hayward?

Gallo isn't much older than Hayward, and I'd rather have him now and every year in the future. Like Jimmy said, Lawson's gotten better each season so far and he's only 24. Faried has some upside.
   1605. andrewberg Posted: July 25, 2012 at 06:43 PM (#4192268)
The Jazz finished very strong in an abbreviated season to go 36-30. Over a full season, that is just shy of 45 wins. Their pythag was 34 wins, which translates to 42 wins. If the baseline is for the Jazz to be a 42 win team, the adjustments are to substitute the ~6 WS from Harris/Howard/Miles with the ~7 WS from Mo and Marvin Williams. That gets into the 43-44 win range, which is right about where Booey projected with a little bump in growth from Hayward and Favors.
   1606. Spivey Posted: July 25, 2012 at 06:44 PM (#4192269)
The only way you can put Utah in Denver's class, IMO, is if you think Favors is going to play like an all-star next year.
   1607. andrewberg Posted: July 25, 2012 at 06:45 PM (#4192271)
The only way you can put Utah in Denver's class, IMO, is if you think Favors is going to play like an all-star next year.


What is "in their class?" I'd say Denver is about 5-8 wins better in the regular season, but also likely to be a first round underdog. You could say that those are the same class.
   1608. Booey Posted: July 25, 2012 at 06:50 PM (#4192272)
The only way you can put Utah in Denver's class, IMO, is if you think Favors is going to play like an all-star next year.


I don't, but I don't see anyone on Denver doing it either. Like I showed in my predictions, I don't see the Jazz being better than the Nuggs; I just don't see the Nuggs being clearly better either. Denver was only two games ahead last season, and I expect more of the same. I don't really see any reason why they'd have a better chance of taking a big jump forward than Utah would.
   1609. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 25, 2012 at 07:09 PM (#4192283)
Suns roster, as of this afternoon:

POINTS - Dragic, Telfair, Marshall.

WINGS - Beasley (although Hollinger says he's better as a 4), Dudley, Brown, W. Johnson.

BIGS - Gortat, Frye (out until Nov. - shoulder), Scola, Ma. Morris, Tucker.

PICKS - Over the next three years, six 1st-rounders and five in the 2nd round.
   1610. andrewberg Posted: July 25, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4192297)
PICKS - Over the next three years, six 1st-rounders and five in the 2nd round.


See, that's where Beasley and Wes really help you. They'll keep those picks in the mid-high lotto despite the presence of some good assets, and their contracts will be expiring right around the time those picks start to develop.
   1611. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 25, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4192320)
2/20 seems like a lot for AK47.
   1612. andrewberg Posted: July 25, 2012 at 09:25 PM (#4192357)
Yeah, but if you have a pretty full lineup and $10m in cap space (I haven't figured out how they do), wouldn't you rather have him than more assorted so-so guys?

Also, short term overpays are better.
   1613. tshipman Posted: July 25, 2012 at 10:46 PM (#4192404)
See, that's where Beasley and Wes really help you. They'll keep those picks in the mid-high lotto despite the presence of some good assets, and their contracts will be expiring right around the time those picks start to develop.


Faaaaaantastic.

Yeah, but if you have a pretty full lineup and $10m in cap space (I haven't figured out how they do), wouldn't you rather have him than more assorted so-so guys?

Also, short term overpays are better.


I agree with this. I also think Minnesota needs to be good to attract FA's. Them or the Bucks might be the team that NBA guys least want to play for.


Re: rankings of East and West:

In general, I am much lower on SAT and BOS than the apparent consensus (Boston as the 2nd best team in the East????), and higher on Denver than some (I think they're 48-52 wins) and higher on BRK than others (I think they're the clear #2 in the East).

I also think, and I realize that this is a highly minority view, that Toronto has a good shot at the #8 seed.
   1614. Booey Posted: July 25, 2012 at 11:35 PM (#4192427)
I also think Minnesota needs to be good to attract FA's. Them or the Bucks might be the team that NBA guys least want to play for.


I'd guess Utah and Toronto could give them a run for their money.
   1615. Booey Posted: July 25, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4192428)
higher on BRK than others (I think they're the clear #2 in the East).


Even if they don't get Howard? I'd agree with the #2 seed if they do, but certainly not without.
   1616. tshipman Posted: July 26, 2012 at 12:53 AM (#4192441)
Even if they don't get Howard? I'd agree with the #2 seed if they do, but certainly not without.


The rest of the East suuuuuuuuuuuucks.

I'd guess Utah and Toronto could give them a run for their money.


I dunno, Utah and Toronto have at least had NBA stars stick around. Minnesota and Milwaukee never have. In any case, I think you have to deploy different strategies in those cities (maybe Sacramento as well), where you target guys in trade vs. FA.
   1617. Into the Void Posted: July 26, 2012 at 01:02 AM (#4192442)
I'd include the Warriors in this discussion too. No one wants to come here, and if they get drafted or traded here they want to leave as soon as they can. I'm very interested to see if that changes when they move to SF.
   1618. andrewberg Posted: July 26, 2012 at 01:40 AM (#4192446)
Kahn made noise about that when he started- said he drafted Rubio to create a culture that would attract free agents. Say what you will about the guy, but he got Batum, AK, Roy, Shved, and Stiemsma to take MN's money instead of someon else's.
   1619. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: July 26, 2012 at 02:55 AM (#4192456)
(Boston as the 2nd best team in the East????)

The Celtics are deeper this year than they have been in a long time. If Sullinger's rebounding is for real and he fits well with KG, that's a huge upgrade from minutes that were taken by Ryan Hollins. Bass is back, and Courtney Lee will be a fantastic fit with Rondo-- he can't create his own looks, but he's a very good finisher (shot 49% from the corners last season, second only to Ray Allen's 50%) and quite a good defender, too. And athletic: Lee, Green and Bradley are the young, athletic wing rotation Rondo's never had to run with him in transition. They finally have a backup 3-- for all that Green has underwhelmed so far, Doc seems to ready to give him more consistent minutes than Pietrus/Daniels/Pavlovic got last season, which is good for Pierce. If KG and Pierce's slow starts were the result of the lockout and their excellent second halves were their true performance level, the Celtics could have quite a strong season, with an upgraded offense and league-leading defense. That's a lot of things that have to go right, of course-- still, I'm optimistic.

Also, Zach Lowe on a new advanced stats database next season on NBA.com.
   1620. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 26, 2012 at 03:01 AM (#4192459)
Which NBA stars have stuck around in Toronto? Jose Calderon? Amir Johnson? Morris Peterson? I guess Antonio Davis was a star of sorts when he re-signed with them. Am I missing anyone?
   1621. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:02 AM (#4192485)
Garnett stuck around in MN for a long time. What other stars have they had to stick around, that left instead? And no trading them on draft day doesn't count.

I am not saying MN is a Mecca for bball stars or anything, but I can't remember a flood of stars that all left as soon as they could.
   1622. Famous Original Joe C Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:02 AM (#4192511)
(Boston as the 2nd best team in the East????)

[1619] hit all the big points, but as ship himself said....the East suuuuucks. I basically have them second by default. You like Indiana #2? Sure, I'll give you that. Brooklyn is good, but I'd prefer to see them play together first...still I guess you could make the argument they are in the conversation as well. I don't think you can definitively say one of those teams is absolutely better than the Celtics (maybe you do; you are consistently pessimistic on them anyway). Beyond that, Who among the Knicks, Hawks, Magic, Sixers etc. is better than the Celtics right now.

I do think the Celtics have a small chance that Garnett gets OLD in a hurry and they end up a 6-7 seed or something.
   1623. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:26 AM (#4192524)
Toronto is the least attractive city to American NBA ballplayers - easy.
I'd agree that Milwaukee (my birthplace!) and Utah are also less appealing. GS more appealing.
   1624. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:38 AM (#4192529)
Granted, I'm still upset at them about the Jeremy Lin thing and I know you guys are BOS fans, but...I would be surprised if the Celtics finished ahead of the Knicks, or the Nets for that matter, and absolutely shocked if they finished ahead of both.

EDIT: I'm also curious as to why everyone thinks IND sucks now.

EDIT 2: And I don't see UTH as close to DEN at all. There was a 2 game edge in the standings but a 2.3 edge in point differential. DEN is a lock for 48-50 wins IMO.
   1625. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:57 AM (#4192540)
   1626. JC in DC Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:21 AM (#4192561)
I'm not betting against Boston finishing ahead of NY and Bklyn, though I really like the Brewer add (maybe irrationally so) b/c it allows (I think) more of the Melo at PF lineups. Where's Indiana in all this discussion of the East? Have they fallen off that much this offseason?
   1627. tshipman Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:41 AM (#4192572)
Where's Indiana in all this discussion of the East? Have they fallen off that much this offseason?


Not so much that they've fallen off as that I think last year was unsustainable for them. They depended on five guys to be above average last year with no one playing like a star. I think that in the NBA, those kind of teams tend to fall off, so I generally am not a believer in them.

Beyond that, Who among the Knicks, Hawks, Magic, Sixers etc. is better than the Celtics right now.


Well, I think the Sixers and Hawks took a step back this offseason (no knock on Danny Ferry), the Magic are a mess and are likely to lose a bunch of games due to the coaching fiasco. The Knicks should be improved--and if Amare decided to stop being a geriatric, then they're in the mix for the two seed.

I might be alone on this, but I don't hate the Bulls next year. I think they could win 45, although obviously they're much diminished from the last two years.

I think that there's a real chance that Boston finishes under .500. If Garnett or Pierce gets hurt for any extended length of time, they are just bad. Bottom line for me on Boston: They won 48 games (schedule adjusted) last year and are a year older. Surely SOMEONE besides the Heat has to win 50 games in the East, right?
   1628. Booey Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:47 AM (#4192576)
I'd include the Warriors in this discussion too. No one wants to come here, and if they get drafted or traded here they want to leave as soon as they can.


A big part of that might be their abysmal record and incompetant management over most of the last couple decades. If they were actually good, I'm not sure they'd rank near the bottom. I think some of these other teams we've mentioned would have a hard time attracting big name free agents no matter what their record was. When was the last time you heard someone like Dwight Howard say: "I have 3 teams on my list that I'll accept a trade to - Toronto, Salt Lake City, and Milwaukee!"?

I do think it's a little easier for these teams to keep their own stars (Garnett, Stockton, Malone) than it would be for them to pick one up from another team via free agency or trade (trades where the player actually has a say in where they're going).
   1629. tshipman Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:51 AM (#4192579)
I'd include the Warriors in this discussion too. No one wants to come here, and if they get drafted or traded here they want to leave as soon as they can.


Yeah, the Warriors are not really in the conversation. The teams that have a hard time are the ones where not only do they suck, but the city has nothing for a 20 something black male to do. Oakland doesn't really have that problem the same way Minnesota, Toronto and Milwaukee do.
   1630. Famous Original Joe C Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4192581)
I think that there's a real chance that Boston finishes under .500. If Garnett or Pierce gets hurt for any extended length of time, they are just bad. Bottom line for me on Boston: They won 48 games (schedule adjusted) last year and are a year older.

That's an oversimplification, I think. Pierce and Garnett are a year older, but most of the rest of that roster - Bass, Sullinger, Green, Lee, Rondo, Bradley - none of those guys are old. Terry, okay, he's old. Again, given you picked the Hawks to beat the Celtics in round 1 last year, I'm not expecting you to like them now. They also basically used the first half of last season to play themselves into shape. I think they were closer to the 24-10 second half team than the 15-17 first half one. I expect them to win 48-54 games next season with reasonable health.

I agree there's a small chance they crater - said it myself up above. Frankly, I'd be shocked if any team, sans Miami or a Nets team with Howard - wins more than 53-54 games next year. I think the Celtics are as likely to reach that total as any of those other teams.

The Knicks need Amare close to fully healthy, Felton to be close to 2010-11 before the trade, and Shumpert to come back strong to be #2, IMO. That could happen, just isn't the most likely outcome, I'd argue.
   1631. Booey Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:58 AM (#4192586)
Where's Indiana in all this discussion of the East? Have they fallen off that much this offseason?


Not so much that they've fallen off as that I think last year was unsustainable for them. They depended on five guys to be above average last year with no one playing like a star. I think that in the NBA, those kind of teams tend to fall off, so I generally am not a believer in them.


Agreed. I think Indy played above their true ability level last season for all the reasons mentioned above. I suspect Denver did the same thing in 2011, which is why I'm lower on them than pretty much everyone else here.

Surely SOMEONE besides the Heat has to win 50 games in the East, right?


Not necessarily. There were a few years in the post-Jordan Eastern Conference trainwreck where only one team won 50, wasn't there? I'm pretty sure Detroit held the #1 seed with exactly 50 wins in one season (2003?).
   1632. andrewberg Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:19 AM (#4192605)
I think that there's a real chance that Boston finishes under .500. If Garnett or Pierce gets hurt for any extended length of time, they are just bad. Bottom line for me on Boston: They won 48 games (schedule adjusted) last year and are a year older. Surely SOMEONE besides the Heat has to win 50 games in the East, right?


They also famously mail in the regular season. Even if they are the 2nd best team in the east, I don't think they'll have the 2nd best record. With a gun to my head, I'd take Indy. Having Hill at PG all year is an improvement, and they have excellent depth. I don't think they played above their true ability- I just think they're a well-constructed team where the pieces fit to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.
   1633. Joel W Posted: July 26, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4192664)
LOL at Garnett mailing in anything. Pierce on the otherhand...

Regardless, the Celtics are another team where taking their 6-10 players from terrible to decent makes them a lot better, particularly in the regular season. Terry, Lee, Green, Sullinger is just a much better rotation than what they had last year.
   1634. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4192668)
Terry, Lee, Green, Sullinger is just a much better rotation than what they had last year.

The Knicks are also replacing 4322 minutes of Toney Douglas, Baron Davis, Mike Bibby and Landry Fields. Carmelo has also promised to try for the entire season now, instead of just waiting until the head coach is fired. And they already had a better scoring margin than the Celtics last year, FWIW.
   1635. nick swisher hygiene Posted: July 26, 2012 at 12:21 PM (#4192670)
just curious--do "we" think Toronto has nothing for a 20something Af-Am male to do, or is it meta (do we think that NBA players think etc)?

I mean, if I were a black NBA player, but still knew what I know now, TO would be at least mid-league for me solely in terms of location.

Really the whole thing is jus "lol foreign country", right? That is, if London England were half an hour off the Atlantic coast, we assume it'd still be the worst/second worst city for NBA players?
   1636. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 26, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4192691)

Suns/Hornets/Wolves deal in danger of falling apart because it may not work under league rules.
The link doesn't get into it, so is there another article that actually says what the problem is?
   1637. jmurph Posted: July 26, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4192696)
The link doesn't get into it, so is there another article that actually says what the problem is?


Does it have something to do with Brad Miller being traded from Minnesota to Minnesota while being retired? Because that's how I've seen it reported in multiple places (him ending up on the TWolves, the team I'm reasonably sure he's currently a part of).
   1638. JJ1986 Posted: July 26, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4192704)
Miller is a Hornet now, and I think the rules only state that he can't be traded back to Minnesota.

Messing around with the trade machine, the problem is that the Hornets aren't giving up enough salary to add the approximately $9m they're taking back.
   1639. Booey Posted: July 26, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4192712)
#1635 - With regards to Toronto, I think we've been factoring the teams actual history at keeping/picking up big names rather than just our assumptions about what players must think of the city/location itself. They've drafted some big stars - T-Mac, VC, Bosh - and they lost them all. Nor have they been major players for any of the biggest free agents from other teams since they came into the league. That can't ALL just be a coincidence, can it?
   1640. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 26, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4192727)
Carmelo has also promised to try for the entire season now, instead of just waiting until the head coach is fired.


Oh good! What could possibly go wrong? A bit less glibly, I'm still not sold on the Knicks for this year, certainly not on them being better than the C's. Amar'e is still unlikely to be young again, Melo is Melo, and their big pickups are Brewer, who will be very good for them, Jason Kidd's AARP membership, and Raymond Felton. I don't really see them leapfrogging a deeper Celtics team in the standings.

Brooklyn, on the other hand, I don't really have any idea about. They could well be better or worse than the C's. I'm curious to see how those pieces fit together, even assuming they don't trade for Dwight mid-season.
   1641. jmurph Posted: July 26, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4192733)
Miller is a Hornet now, and I think the rules only state that he can't be traded back to Minnesota.


Aha! I see I missed that blockbuster trade with eleventy 2nd round picks going each way. Thanks for clarifying, I was very confused.

   1642. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 26, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4192737)
The fact that Miller has retired makes the whole thing even better. I really want AK on the team though, so I hope it (or something like it) goes through.
   1643. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 26, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4192741)
The fact that Miller has retired makes the whole thing even better. I really want AK on the team though, so I hope it (or something like it) goes through.
And it seems the Hornets really want RoLo*, so there's word this deal may need a fourth team.

* - New Orleans is offering $15.3MM over 3, btw.
   1644. Jimmy P Posted: July 26, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4192761)
just curious--do "we" think Toronto has nothing for a 20something Af-Am male to do, or is it meta (do we think that NBA players think etc)?


I think it's unappealing for most NBA players. I don't even think color has anything to do with it. It's in Canada, which most guys probably don't know a whole lot about, and the culture is a bit different. It's cold. It's real cold compared to Houston or Miami or Atlanta. A huge one is the taxes. Canadian taxes are much higher than ours. Sure, your family's getting better healthcare, but your taking home way less money. And, your friends and family have to get passports to visit you.
   1645. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4192777)
Oh good! What could possibly go wrong? A bit less glibly, I'm still not sold on the Knicks for this year, certainly not on them being better than the C's. Amar'e is still unlikely to be young again, Melo is Melo, and their big pickups are Brewer, who will be very good for them, Jason Kidd's AARP membership, and Raymond Felton. I don't really see them leapfrogging a deeper Celtics team in the standings.

Agreed on Amar'e, Melo, Kidd and Felton. I think you're underestimating/ignoring Camby though as well as how horrible some of those guys I named were. Then there is the matter of the Knicks having a better point differential than the Celtics already last year and the Celtics general history of regular season indifference.
   1646. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 26, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4192815)
I did totally forget about Camby, who I think is a good pickup for them. As for the regular season indifference of the C's, I think that last year was more a product of Pierce and KG not being in shape at the beginning of the season, but you could be right. The team has been willing in recent years to leave some wins on the table to rest its older players, but I think that this year's deeper bench will help to mitigate that. I'm inclined to pay more attention to personnel than point differential in looking at last year because of the lockout's wonky effects on the C's start and the injuries both teams dealt with, but again you might be right here.
   1647. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: July 26, 2012 at 03:45 PM (#4192860)
Has everyone seen Deek's summary of the luxury tax payments by year/team? Great stuff.
   1648. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 26, 2012 at 04:08 PM (#4192874)
[1647] Without looking (he asks "which 7 teams have never paid the tax"): Toronto, Clippers, Charlotte, OKC, Milwaukee, Golden State, Wizards?

EDIT: 5/7
   1649. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 04:26 PM (#4192884)
My guesses: Raptors, Bulls, Bobcats, Timberwolves, Thunder, Suns, Kings

3/7
   1650. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4192899)
The Knicks' total just made me upset about the Lin thing all over again.
   1651. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: July 26, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4192903)
Ack - the one I missed was obvious in retrospect. (Granted, I was helped on the other 6 by youse guys.)
   1652. Booey Posted: July 26, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4192911)
With a couple exceptions, the list of teams that have never paid the luxury tax is comprised mainly of the perennial loser/cheapskate teams with owners that rarely seem to care enough to even try to win.

At least two of them surprised me, though.
   1653. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: July 26, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4192912)
Andre Iguodala ?@mindofAI9
He gone be disappointed when he find out Andre Iguodala signed his Lebron James jersey...
   1654. kpelton Posted: July 26, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4192913)
My sense is that NBA players love Toronto as a place to visit, but not as a place to live, for many of the reasons JimmyP explains in 1644.

Disappointed nobody has mentioned when Antonio Davis said he didn't want his kids to learn Canadian history instead of American history, or whatever that exact comment was. (Since I was in IB we did History of the Americas, so I got the best of both worlds!)
   1655. robinred Posted: July 26, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4192933)
East: I would actually, at this point, pick Indiana to finish with the second-best record and with a record closer to Miami than one might think (I think Wade will take it slow, and I look for Miami to phone in some games prior to the post-season this year, with Spoelstra monitoring James' and Bosh's MPG). I agree with berg on Indiana, and IMO Indiana/Memphis/Denver type teams, while it is very hard for them to win the title, will usually do well relative to their talent level in the regular season. I don't have any data to back this up, however.

If #2 means "Who has the best chance to upset Miami in a playoff series" I think I would still have to say Boston, or Brooklyn, the latter being because I still think it is possible that Howard will be traded there at the deadline, as I said a couple of weeks ago.

Speaking of Toronto, I am not sure I am on board with tshipman as seeing them making a run at 8, but I do think that Lowry and Valanciunas will make a big difference, and that they will be an interesting team. I am a fan of Lowry's game.
   1656. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 26, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4192937)
Hey, Kevin - thanks for dropping in! Love your work!

As long as you're here, quick thoughts on the Suns' offseason?
   1657. robinred Posted: July 26, 2012 at 05:22 PM (#4192940)
Edit: Of course, if Rose is back by post-season and is close to himself, that changes the picture dramatically. The above is based on Rose's not being there.
   1658. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: July 26, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4192957)
Of course, if Rose is back by post-season and is close to himself, that changes the picture dramatically. The above is based on Rose's not being there.

If I had to bet/predict today, I say he'll be back with a couple months left in the season, but won't be 100% at any point until the start of the 2013 season. If the Bulls can avoid the 8 seed*, I would like their chances in the first round against any of the East teams even without a 100% Rose. I see them anywhere from the 4-7 seed though (that depends on if Deng misses any time and how much time Boozer will miss this year - no way he gets through another year totally healthy again), I don't think they'll be able to beat the Pacers for the division title.

I am not at all confident in any of Boston/Brooklyn/New York to say for sure which will win the division/get a top 3 seed. I can easily see them finishing 3-4-5 in the conference in any order; in fact, that's probably the most likely outcome. All this talk of Boston's revamped depth is still in a need to see it to believe it mode for me - I'm not sold on Green, I'm not sure how much they can really expect Sullinger to contribute next year, Terry is old, etc - and any talk on their strong finish/playoff push is still negated in my mind by how badly they struggled with a depleted Hawks team and a bad Philly team and a Bosh-less Heat. Having said that, I'm not convinced the Knicks will be that much better this year than last and I'm not sure how the Nets defense/depth is going to fair if they don't get Howard, so I can't confidently predict either to surely finish ahead of the C's. Even though I think some here are overlooking the loss of Collison for Indiana (and talk of them overacheiving/peaking/whatever last year), they're the clear #2 regular season team to me (and George could very well take a big step forward this season). I think I've already talked about the bottom of the East, but I would say Philly and Atlanta are still most likely of the teams to make the playoffs.

West, I agree with everyone putting OKC on top, the Spurs/Lakers should fight it out for 2/3, and I put LAC, Mem, and Den together at the next level. I think Utah and Dallas should round out the top 8, but could see Utah taking a step back and allowing Portland or Minnesota to sneak in.

I don't know that I foresee many changes to those 16 teams in the playoffs come formal prediction time in October (gosh, that's a long, long ways away).

*Like everyone else, I'm confident in Miami getting the 1 seed.
   1659. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 26, 2012 at 06:08 PM (#4192971)
*Like everyone else, I'm confident in Miami getting the 1 seed.
I could see the Heat giving their big three rest during the early season a lot more than usual due to the extended playoff run which was followed by the Olympics (for LeBron and surgery/recover for Wade/Bosh). This could cause them to not have the #1 seed at the end of the season, but still be the prohibitive favorites to repeat.
   1660. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 26, 2012 at 06:15 PM (#4192974)
Disappointed nobody has mentioned when Antonio Davis said he didn't want his kids to learn Canadian history instead of American history, or whatever that exact comment was.

And that's a guy who actually re-signed with the Raptors!
   1661. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: July 26, 2012 at 06:31 PM (#4192984)
wrong thread
   1662. nick swisher hygiene Posted: July 26, 2012 at 07:01 PM (#4193021)
having learned Canadian history myself in school, I could have eased Davis's mind by guaranteeing his kids wouldn't retain any of it....
   1663. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 26, 2012 at 07:33 PM (#4193048)
   1664. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: July 26, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4193051)
I could see the Heat giving their big three rest during the early season a lot more than usual due to the extended playoff run which was followed by the Olympics (for LeBron and surgery/recover for Wade/Bosh).

Me too, but not enough for any of the other East teams to pass them.
   1665. Into the Void Posted: July 26, 2012 at 07:39 PM (#4193057)
2012-2013 schedule has been released.


That Washington/Cleveland game starting things off is gonna be nuts.

   1666. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: July 26, 2012 at 07:44 PM (#4193065)
2012-2013 schedule has been released.

Wow. The Bulls usually have 2 brutal road trips (the circus one in Nov/Dec and the Disney on Ice one in Jan/Feb). But the early circus trip (out west) is only 5 games, with 2 off days between every game except for a b2b, and they drew PHX, LAC, POR (those are the b2b), HOU and MIL. The 2nd trip is also 5 games, has 2 b2b but 4 days off! built in; MIL, BKN/ATL, DEN/UTA. That one is definitely tougher, but both are much lighter than recent years. 15 total b2bs. I guess no matter what, it was going to be a much more restful schedule than last season, but this still seems somewhat favorable, as those things go.
   1667. robinred Posted: July 26, 2012 at 07:58 PM (#4193081)
Dec 25:

XMas Day NBA Games: Boston @ Brooklyn; Knicks @ Lakers; Thunder @ Heat; Houston @ Bulls; Nuggets @ Clippers.
— Marc J. Spears (@SpearsNBAYahoo) July 26, 2012
   1668. Maxwn Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:08 PM (#4193093)
Holy ####, the Grizzlies are actually on Nat TV a lot this year. Movin' on up.
   1669. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:08 PM (#4193174)
Holy ####, the Grizzlies are actually on Nat TV a lot this year. Movin' on up.
And the Suns are not.

Franchises rise, franchises fall.
   1670. robinred Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4193189)
This could cause them to not have the #1 seed at the end of the season, but still be the prohibitive favorites to repeat.


This is where Rose's injury comes into play. Most casual fans may not know (not saying you don't) that Miami hasn't had the best record in either the NBA or the East either year James has been there. OKC actually had HCA in the Finals last year. But with Rose's injury, I think Miami will get the 1 seed in the East this year, with a record of about 57-25. If they don't get it, that will be because Wade misses many games, and/or maybe Bosh does, and James is a little gassed. But I don't think anyone else in the East can win more than about 51-55 games, due to Rose's injury taking that possibility away from Chicago.

I also think that Chicago will miss Asik and Brewer a little bit--maybe not in the playoffs, but Chicago's excellent second-unit D was one reason they have rolled up so many wins during the season.
   1671. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:26 PM (#4193263)
Lets see what butler can do in place of brewer. He seemed decent in the few times he played last year
   1672. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:35 PM (#4193273)
Only checked a few teams, but IND really "deserves" to be on nat'l tv more.
   1673. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4193317)
1654/kp: i was gonna make an davis crack but kept thinking "wait, i don't think dale davis ever played for toronto ... who do i mean... some big man who used be a pacer, um..." oops.

i like the turiaf to lac pickup. not only can he block shots, but he's a nifty passer for a big man.
   1674. robinred Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:44 PM (#4193339)
Lets see what butler can do in place of brewer.


His TS% was a lot better than Brewer's; if he sustains that, then he might be better than Brewer. Asik is a bigger issue anyway, though.
   1675. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 27, 2012 at 01:59 AM (#4193388)
Phoenix Suns President resigns after 9 months on the job.

Rick Welts has not even been gone from the Suns for a year and the presidency of the franchise's business side is changing again.

Brad Casper, the former head of Dial Corp., resigned as Suns president after nine months on the job. Chief Operating Officer Jason Rowley will assume the role of president overseeing the Suns' business operations.
   1676. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: July 27, 2012 at 03:29 AM (#4193415)
Was Rick Welts the fella who came out last year?

I think I'm less optimistic about the Bulls going forward than most here. The consensus seems to be that the main difference between their recent standings as the #1 seed and the upcoming season is the time Rose is going to miss (well, and Miami's improvement). I'm not convinced. I think the Bulls have been sort of a rich man's Linsanity-- excellent lead guard play getting the credit for games the defense/depth won, and bench guys who get lots of wins get paid more than Reinsdorf is willing to pay. I'd love to be wrong-- I really like Rose, Noah, Deng and Gibson, and a top-notch Bulls team would make the East way more interesting for the next decade. But the recent Bulls teams seem to me to be overachievers in that they're better suited to the regular season than the playoffs, and the pessimist in me wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of money-saving moves like letting Asik go end up closing their window prematurely.
   1677. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 27, 2012 at 09:15 AM (#4193456)
Was Rick Welts the fella who came out last year?
Rick Welts came out and then quit 6 months later. This was followed by Casper being hired a couple months later and then quitting last night.
   1678. JJ1986 Posted: July 27, 2012 at 09:25 AM (#4193468)
I thought Lon Babby was the Suns president.
   1679. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 27, 2012 at 09:51 AM (#4193479)
I thought Lon Babby was the Suns president.
Babby is president of basketball operations. Casper was president of the business side of things.
   1680. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 27, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4193780)
Suns/Hornets/T-Wolves deal finally is done.

To make it work, Phx had to throw in cash and the Lakers' 20124 second-round pick, acquired in the Nash deal.
   1681. AROM Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4193794)
To make it work, Phx had to throw in cash and the Lakers' 20124 second-round pick, acquired in the Nash deal.


No big loss. We'll all be long dead by 20124.
   1682. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4193809)
To make it work, Phx had to throw in cash and the Lakers' 20124 second-round pick, acquired in the Nash deal.


That's interesting. Are the Suns allowed to trade any other team's picks?
   1683. Maxwn Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4193814)
We'll all be long dead by 20124.

Speak for yourself, AROM.
   1684. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4193858)
That's interesting. Are the Suns allowed to trade any other team's picks?
Certainly would give the Suns more assets, wouldn't it?
   1685. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:53 PM (#4193868)
1680 - I don't see how that ($/picks) makes a difference in terms of the legality of the trade.
   1686. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:56 PM (#4193871)
Me neither. Suns brass is having a media conference call right now so maybe we'll get some answers.
   1687. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:59 PM (#4193876)
1680 - I don't see how that ($/picks) makes a difference in terms of the legality of the trade.


Stern pockets the money and approves the trade.
   1688. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 27, 2012 at 03:24 PM (#4193918)
Me neither. Suns brass is having a media conference call right now so maybe we'll get some answers.
Are they also going to discuss Brad Casper leaving?
   1689. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: July 27, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4193995)
So which team has had more front office turnover the last couple of years - Phoenix or Portland? Or am I forgetting a team (not counting massive one time flips like Indiana or Atlanta)...
   1690. Mark S. is bored Posted: July 27, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4193999)
Grantland article on the NBA Summer League focusing on older guys who are on their last chance, starring David Harrison, Adam Morrison and Hilton Armstrong.

To my left sits an NBA assistant coach. He's disappointed. His team has roster spots to fill, but no summer league standouts to fill them. I ask him about the three players I've met. "I've never been a fan of Adam Morrison," he says. "He can't do anything but score." On Armstrong: "He really has a chance. He has a definite role. You know exactly what he can do — rebound and block shots — and there are only so many guys who can do that at an NBA level." I then ask about Harrison. "David Harrison's here? Playing? I had no idea."
   1691. andrewberg Posted: July 27, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4194045)
Are they also going to discuss Brad Casper leaving?


Maybe he's the missing piece in that 3-way trade and the Wolves will take his salary to even things out.
   1692. robinred Posted: July 28, 2012 at 01:54 AM (#4194352)
There is an Olympics thread, but I will post any meanderings about Team USA here. Saw a little of the Opening Ceremony and as a Lakers fan got a kick out of seeing Pau as the flag-bearer for Spain. Simmons is at the Olympics, and his first column was light but pretty good. One thing I do like about Simmons: the guy loves sports. He was joking about trying to talk himself out of watching too mnay basketball games, since he sees those guys play all the time. He of course has an all-access media pass to every venue.
   1693. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 28, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4194524)
Remember when Kobe Bryant said that the 2012 Olympic Team was better than the 1992 Dream Team? He doesn't.
   1694. smileyy Posted: July 28, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4194564)
Kobe Bryant's Objective Pipe ought to be in the Basketball Hall of Fame.

Edit: I wonder what his post-basketball career will be like. He probably has too much insight to offer to be an announcer/talking head. But in some way, I'd like to hear about all his insights and observations on the game.
   1695. outl13r Posted: July 28, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4194586)
Remember when Kobe Bryant said that the 2012 Olympic Team was better than the 1992 Dream Team? He doesn't.


Of course he doesn't remember saying that. It's because he DIDN'T say that. He said:

All Bryant said was, "It'd be a tough one, but I think we'd pull it out."


And followed it up with:

If you're asking me, 'Can you beat them one game?' Hell yeah, we can beat them in one game. You didn't ask me if we could beat them in a 7-game series. In one game, we can beat them. No question about it.
   1696. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: July 28, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4194599)
Orlando hires Jacque Vaughn as head coach.

That's, um, unexpected. According to the article, Shaq doesn't like it.
   1697. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: July 28, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4194609)
Orlando hires Jacque Vaughn as head coach.

That's, um, unexpected. According to the article, Shaq doesn't like it.
great news for the sixers. if orlando had hired michael curry that would have been a huge hit to the continuity of the team's defense.
   1698. smileyy Posted: July 28, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4194630)
I wonder how much Shaq actually knows about Jacque Vaughn's coaching credentials and ability? Or is he just basing it on the fact that he's young (credible) and was famous in college but a bad NBA player (dumb -- good college players who become bad NBA players probably make good coaches).
   1699. robinred Posted: July 28, 2012 at 07:48 PM (#4194768)
Maybe Stern is bored:

The agent for Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard confirmed NBA commissioner David Stern's accusation that Howard's representatives were the sources that provided details of Wednesday's private meeting in Los Angeles with Magic officials.


However, the agent said, those representatives did so only after media members were tipped off to the meeting taking place by some other source and out of concern that subsequent reports about the content of the meeting would be inaccurate.


"It's very unique, especially if it's driven by a quote source that happens to be Dwight's agent," Stern told USA Today. "'A source in the meeting.' Oh, OK, who might that be?"



http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8206783/dwight-howard-agent-dan-fegan-confirms-david-stern-accusation
   1700. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: July 28, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4194882)
flip

Page 17 of 25 pages ‹ First  < 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Mike Emeigh
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2014
(485 - 2:19pm, Apr 23)
Last: Mark S. is bored

NewsblogThe Five “Acts” of Ike Davis’s Career, and Why Trading Ike Was a Mistake
(18 - 2:17pm, Apr 23)
Last: thetailor

NewsblogOTP April 2014: BurstNET Sued for Not Making Equipment Lease Payments
(2206 - 2:15pm, Apr 23)
Last: Rickey! In a van on 95 south...

NewsblogOMNICHATTER for 4/23/2014
(35 - 2:14pm, Apr 23)
Last: spike

NewsblogJ.R. Gamble: Albert Pujols' 500-Homer Chase Is A Bore, But That's Baseball's Fault
(51 - 2:13pm, Apr 23)
Last: bunyon

NewsblogMatt Harvey of New York Mets deletes Twitter account after controversial tweet
(13 - 2:11pm, Apr 23)
Last: The District Attorney

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread March, 2014
(1060 - 2:10pm, Apr 23)
Last: Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14!

Newsblog4 balls, you’re out!
(8 - 2:10pm, Apr 23)
Last: bunyon

NewsblogMLB takes a swing at the video game business
(6 - 1:56pm, Apr 23)
Last: if nature called, ladodger34 would listen

NewsblogCameron: Numbers don't lie: The decline of Pujols is stunning
(221 - 1:46pm, Apr 23)
Last: Ron J2

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 4-23-2014
(5 - 1:33pm, Apr 23)
Last: esseff

NewsblogOT: The NHL is finally back thread, part 2
(195 - 1:29pm, Apr 23)
Last: zack

NewsblogMorosi: Diamondbacks' growing gloom might mean doom for manager or GM
(8 - 1:10pm, Apr 23)
Last: zonk

NewsblogThe rise and fall of Ike Davis' New York Mets | Capital New York
(19 - 1:05pm, Apr 23)
Last: formerly dp

NewsblogJosh Lueke Is A Rapist, You Say? Keep Saying It.
(110 - 1:04pm, Apr 23)
Last: Blastin

Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats

 

 

 

 

Page rendered in 0.9846 seconds
53 querie(s) executed