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Monday, July 02, 2012

OT: NBA basketball July Thread 2012

I estimate that only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what the site is really about: Jim Furtado trolling his own site when he’s bored.

Tripon Posted: July 02, 2012 at 04:21 PM | 2487 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball

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   1701. robinred Posted: July 29, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4195327)
Zach Lowe breaks down the West. For purposes of the exercise, he assumes the following:

Playoffs: OKC, SA, LAL, LAC, MEM
Lottery: SAC, POR, NO

The piece is about all the other teams.

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/07/27/nba-western-conference/?sct=nba_t12_a0
   1702. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 29, 2012 at 06:48 PM (#4195393)
Longest page flip delay ever.
   1703. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: July 29, 2012 at 07:46 PM (#4195425)
Anybody watch gbr v rus today? Specifically, did any twolves fans do so? On paper, was the ak and shved show...
   1704. tshipman Posted: July 29, 2012 at 08:09 PM (#4195451)
Lottery: SAC, POR, NO


Hmm. I'm not so certain that POR is a lottery team. They won a projected 35 games last year, and they traded (in effect) Gerald Wallace for JJ Hickson, resulting in mostly a wash.

They lose Marcus Camby, but he wasn't really that big of a deal for them. In theory, they get a fuller season from LMA, and they have the potential for a serious upgrade at PG from Lillard (since Felton was so brutal).

Pryzbilla is back (?) and will hopefully be healthy. I think PDX is closer to the playoffs than the Warriors, Rockets or Suns.
   1705. andrewberg Posted: July 29, 2012 at 11:22 PM (#4195546)
Shved was as good as the stat line showed. Gbr's defense blew, so there's that caveat. Shved was able to get around anyone who guarded him and nobody protected the rim. He isn't the fastest, but he wriggles through screens a little like ginobili. He has incredibly fast hands, leading to quick passes/shots (gorgeous release) and steals. He looked a bit like a pure point with his willingness to distribute. He still needs to add lots of muscle- I worry about his finishing.

AK was good too, very explosive. Shved created most of his shots, but he finished well. He's obviously more of a known commodity. Still, good to see that he's not washed up. The wolves need his defense, and he'll fit on the break.
   1706. PJ Martinez Posted: July 30, 2012 at 12:12 AM (#4195569)
Hmm. I'm not so certain that POR is a lottery team. They won a projected 35 games last year, and they traded (in effect) Gerald Wallace for JJ Hickson, resulting in mostly a wash.

I don't think Wallace to Hickson is a wash, though I agree with you otherwise that Portland could surprise.

As could New Orleans, right?

I agree that the Warriors, Rockets, and Suns appear unlikely to fight for playoff spots (though I would love to see Curry and Bogut healthy and playing well together, which would certainly give GSW a chance if it happened).
   1707. Joel W Posted: July 30, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4195880)
I really don't think New Orleans will surprise this year. 2013/2014 is a different story. Even if Anthony Davis is as good as we think he will be, that is, a guy who can lead his team to a championship at his peak, he still won't be very good next year.
   1708. robinred Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4195895)
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Unquestioned highlight of Team USA practice: Oscar Schmidt. Told Melo wanted picture w/him, Brazil legend said: "It would be my honor."


ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Chris Paul (@CP3) giddy at Team USA practice to meet Brazilian legend Oscar Schmidt


http://t.co/s9mT06rS

Link is to photo that Stein took with his camera phone.

The Argentina/France game will be the first time Ginobili has ever played against Parker.
   1709. tshipman Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4195912)
(though I would love to see Curry and Bogut healthy and playing well together, which would certainly give GSW a chance if it happened)


I bet Sasquatch, the invisible man and Superman would also be a good starters on the 2012-2013 Warriors. Cheap jokes aside, the 'Dubs have been a poor team defensively for a long time. I'm skeptical that Bogut can change that by himself. I think the Warriors are always a disappointing team, because a lot of those guys will have good fantasy stats, but it just won't come together.


I don't think Wallace to Hickson is a wash, though I agree with you otherwise that Portland could surprise.


I phrased that poorly. Hickson played better than Wallace did after the trade for PDX. I think that going forward, Hickson will likely give less value than Wallace in 2012-2013, but the two players were roughly equal at the end of the year. I don't think it's a huge difference though.


Who is the worst team in the West?
It was NOH last year. Probably Sacramento? Depending on how you feel about Cousins? GSW if they all get hurt? Houston if Lin gets exposed? NOH again because they kinda suck?
   1710. Jimmy P Posted: July 30, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4195926)
Who is the worst team in the West?


I think New Orleans, Sacramento, Houston, and Phoenix all could. I'm just not a believer in Phoenix. New Orleans is depending on two rookies and a guy who hasn't proven he can be good for more than a half season.
   1711. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: July 30, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4196272)
Rumors!
Nate Robinson to chi?
Willie green to lac as part of an s/t for the rights to sofo. (doesn't sound credible)
[both from deeks' twitter]
   1712. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: July 30, 2012 at 05:33 PM (#4196282)
But, it was true (Willie Green deal)
   1713. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: July 30, 2012 at 06:10 PM (#4196302)
more rumors!
Golden State to re-sign Brandon Rush as well as sign Carl Landry.
   1714. thok Posted: July 30, 2012 at 07:55 PM (#4196433)
Theoretically the 2013 Warriors won't spend the last third of the season tanking. That plus actual improvements to the talent base would make the Warriors a fringe playoff contender. (It would help if Harrison Barnes plays like a young Vince Carter, but that's too much to ask for.)
   1715. Booey Posted: July 30, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4196449)
(It would help if Harrison Barnes plays like a young Vince Carter, but that's too much to ask for.)


Actually, I think the Warriors problem has always been that they seem to end up with TOO many players that play like Vince Carter (all offense-no defense, not giving their best effort every night, milking injuries, etc).
   1716. robinred Posted: August 01, 2012 at 12:33 AM (#4197773)
Rumors!

CJ Miles is "leaning towards" signing with the Lakers.

Also rumor that Orlando is trying again and has "ramped up" efforts to trade Howard, as he told Hennigan that if they don't trade him, he will leave and sign with Dallas. Reports also that Dallas is now talking to ORL about a trade.
   1717. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 01, 2012 at 05:00 AM (#4197821)
I don't see the doubt about Bogut on the Warriors. I'm not saying they're a playoff lock or anything, and a bad turn of one of several ankles could ruin their season, but the man has a history as an honest-to-god transformational force on D. I mean, this team had the second-best DRtg in the whole league. How many even above average defenders are on that roster besides Bogut? To say nothing of how good a fit Bogut and Lee seem to be, or how he has never had a chronic injury, or how he is not named Andris Biedrins. His offense turned rotten when he broke his arm, but that seems fixable, and even if it isn't, there is a filthy amount of shooting skill around him.
   1718. King Mekong Posted: August 01, 2012 at 06:39 AM (#4197828)
Agreed on the warriors. I think they could be pretty good. If I do league pass they will be one of my teams probably. As for that bucks team. Luc mbah moute has a pretty good rep from d. As does Charlie bell. Illyasova is a good rebounder. Don't recall his d rep.

Ps I think Spain upsets the us
   1719. Booey Posted: August 01, 2012 at 11:56 AM (#4198044)
CJ Miles is "leaning towards" signing with the Lakers.


HA! He's your problem now! :p

Sorry, never liked CJ. Of course, the Lakers already have a pretty decent shooting guard, so Miles won't be getting enough minutes to really hurt the team like he did with the Jazz. Corbin seems to have inherited Sloan's obsession with veterans, and it drove me nuts last year that he kept playing the likes of CJ, Bell, and Josh Howard over Favors, Hayward, and Burks. Those first 3 getting injured and removing Corbin's temptation to play them was just as key to the Jazz's late season playoff push as anything the other players actually did on the court, IMO.
   1720. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: August 01, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4198049)
Anyone have thoughts on how being part of Not as Good as The Dream Team Team will affect Anthony Davis' development, if at all?
   1721. andrewberg Posted: August 01, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4198056)
I don't see the doubt about Bogut on the Warriors. I'm not saying they're a playoff lock or anything, and a bad turn of one of several ankles could ruin their season, but the man has a history as an honest-to-god transformational force on D.


Bogut is really good and the Warriors have a couple of underrated players, but they are all injury prone. I think their odds of pushing for the playoffs are about the same as the odds that Bogut and Curry stay healthy (not good).
   1722. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: August 01, 2012 at 12:15 PM (#4198063)
Ilyasova D - spirit/technique is more willing than the body; adequate.
   1723. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: August 01, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4198178)
Apparently the Knicks have signed Chris Smith, which makes no sense considering he was one of the worst players on bad Summer Lea---*notices last name*---oh, got it.
   1724. GregD Posted: August 01, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4198205)
Apparently the Knicks have signed Chris Smith, which makes no sense considering he was one of the worst players on bad Summer Lea---*notices last name*---oh, got it.
Lots of teams could be foolish enough to give J R Smith license to shoot at (w)ill, but only the Knicks would also give him the keys to the roster.
   1725. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: August 01, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4198251)
they are all injury prone


Bogut has missed a lot of time with injuries, but none of them is especially likely to recur; they're just not the chronic type of injury that, say, Curry's ankle seems to be. I think it's fair to call him very very unlucky with injuries, but I'm not at all sure it's fair to call him injury prone. Another traumatic injury next season and I might change my tune, though.
   1726. andrewberg Posted: August 01, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4198342)
Bogut has missed a lot of time with injuries, but none of them is especially likely to recur; they're just not the chronic type of injury that, say, Curry's ankle seems to be. I think it's fair to call him very very unlucky with injuries, but I'm not at all sure it's fair to call him injury prone. Another traumatic injury next season and I might change my tune, though.


I think that is a very reasonable belief. I tend to think that there are two types of "injury prone" people- those who have recurring injuries like Curry's ankle (Steph Re-Curry ankle injury?), and those whose bodies break down easily. You could be in both categories, but it seems to me that there is a subset of guys in the second category alone who always seem like they should be healthier.

I don't have data to support that theory, so I won't go to the mat for it, but I also wouldn't put money on Bogut staying healthy without really good odds.
   1727. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: August 02, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4199023)
Who else thinks that the Chris smith signing is to compensate JR for taking less than market value to stay with NYK?
At min, they get some guaranteed money - if the younger smith gets any service time, that's a very valuable thing.
   1728. robinred Posted: August 02, 2012 at 07:27 PM (#4199260)
I watched Abbott and Hollinger's THTV Olympic 5-minute Skype thing, after seeing that the US had beaten Nigeria by the absurd score of 156-73. Hollinger said that playing two "ball stopperish guys like Kobe and Melo is problematic", and that Durant or Iguodala should be starting since the "new generation" "plays the right way" unlike the guys in the past decade "who have a different agenda."

I checked the numbers and saw that Bryant, prior to today, had played a total of 21 minutes, going 4/11, and Anthony had played a total of 29 minutes, going 9/16. Bryant and Anthony were 6/8 and 13/16 respectively, against Nigeria. Durant, meanwhile, lead the team in both minutes and shots, but was only 10/23 in the first two games.

Apparently the starters did not immediately blow Tunisia out of the gym, so maybe that is what they were sort of talking about, but the whole thing was, well, Abbott and Hollinger being Abbott and Hollinger. Durant did apparently start against Nigeria.
   1729. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: August 03, 2012 at 10:32 AM (#4199644)
Can the folks who said they would be interested in an Online 2K Association mode message me with their e-mail addresses please? (PS 3)
   1730. Famous Original Joe C Posted: August 03, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4199657)
[1729] PS3? :(
   1731. tshipman Posted: August 03, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4199662)
I don't see the doubt about Bogut on the Warriors. I'm not saying they're a playoff lock or anything, and a bad turn of one of several ankles could ruin their season, but the man has a history as an honest-to-god transformational force on D. I mean, this team had the second-best DRtg in the whole league. How many even above average defenders are on that roster besides Bogut? To say nothing of how good a fit Bogut and Lee seem to be, or how he has never had a chronic injury, or how he is not named Andris Biedrins. His offense turned rotten when he broke his arm, but that seems fixable, and even if it isn't, there is a filthy amount of shooting skill around him.


I think that coaching matters a lot for defense, and I'm skeptical of Mark Jackson's ability to coach good defense.

In general, good coaches seem to have good defensive teams, even with poor defensive players. Good coaches with great defenders have great defenses.
   1732. Booey Posted: August 03, 2012 at 02:53 PM (#4199911)
Something needs to happen so we have more to talk about...What else am I gonna do during weekdays when I'm sitting in front of a computer all day anyway? My job? Pfft!!!

So, uh, now that Shaq is retired and has more free time, when is he gonna do what we've all been waiting for for 15 years...make the sequels to Steel and Kazaam?
   1733. smileyy Posted: August 03, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4199983)
Blue Chips II: Sophomore Year?
   1734. Booey Posted: August 03, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4199992)
Blue Chips II: Sophomore Year?


With a 40 year old sophmore? Hey, it'll be like Beverly Hills 90210 all over again...
   1735. Fourth True Outcome Posted: August 03, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4200071)
Blue Chips II: Back to School II
   1736. andrewberg Posted: August 03, 2012 at 05:17 PM (#4200078)
So, uh, now that Shaq is retired and has more free time, when is he gonna do what we've all been waiting for for 15 years...make the sequels to Steel and Kazaam?


I think Thunderstruck has that covered.
   1737. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 04, 2012 at 11:23 AM (#4200467)
US team offense for the last three minutes has been iso Lebron, don't pass until he gets doubled. How many nations can attempt to defend that in crunch time?
   1738. PJ Martinez Posted: August 06, 2012 at 12:51 AM (#4201266)
Random bit of trivia: Paul Pierce and Dirk Nowitzki have each been the leading scorer on their respective teams every season since 2000-01. Decent chance each of those guys extends that run for at least one more year, too.
   1739. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: August 06, 2012 at 10:07 AM (#4201374)
Short sitdown with The Admiral
Q: Any regrets?

[David Robinson:] No. Not one. It was an amazing journey. We had some times, when we lost in 1995 against the Rockets. That was painful. Hakeem [Olajuwon] was playing great and out of his mind. I was playing O.K. But not near M.V.P. status. That was probably the one time I was most disappointed in myself. But other than that, everything was phenomenal.
   1740. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:28 PM (#4201724)
Wrist ligaments just grow back, right?
   1741. andrewberg Posted: August 06, 2012 at 04:38 PM (#4201739)
It seems possible that he could have strengthened the muscles around the torn ligament enough to compensate for what he's missing. That, combined with working around problematic motions and pain tolerance, might be enough to make him feel pretty good about where he is. If Dajuan Blair can work around having no ACLs, a bad wrist seems even more plausible.
   1742. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: August 06, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4201848)
Well, wasn't Blair born with them? So he'd be more used to it. Also, I think they talked a lot of inflammation and pain, so maybe he's learned to deal with it, but he hasn't had that much chance to rest.

Did Kobe ever have surgery on his?
   1743. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: August 07, 2012 at 02:06 AM (#4202086)
US team offense for the last three minutes has been iso Lebron, don't pass until he gets doubled. How many nations can attempt to defend that in crunch time?

How many NBA teams can?
   1744. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: August 07, 2012 at 03:19 PM (#4202480)
RIP Dan Roundfield, who I believe was my first autograph.
   1745. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: August 07, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4202594)
RIP Dan Roundfield, who I believe was my first autograph.

Sad. Drowned trying to save his wife.
   1746. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 08, 2012 at 08:56 AM (#4202995)
There are a surprising number of people who die in rescue attempts.
   1747. Jimmy P Posted: August 08, 2012 at 11:12 AM (#4203145)
Sad. Drowned trying to save his wife.


He succeeded in the saving his wife part. Very brave.

   1748. Jimmy P Posted: August 08, 2012 at 11:13 AM (#4203146)
The Blazers hired Terry Stotts as head coach. Caleb Kanales has to be kept on staff by owner mandate.
   1749. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: August 08, 2012 at 11:21 AM (#4203156)
Another RIP: Tim Allen (Canis Hoopus, SBN's T-Wolves blog).
   1750. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: August 08, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4203174)
In other Minnesota news: Bad Shved showed up in RUS's win over LTU - 4/2/6 on 2-12 from the field, 0-5 from three, 0-4 from the line, no steals or blocks, 4 turns ... as did Good AK (19/13/2, 3 stl, 3 blk, 1 to). On the Lithuania side, Kleiza had a rough night, whilst Valanciunas finally got extended burn and performed well.
   1751. Booey Posted: August 08, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4203244)
Another RIP: Tim Allen (Canis Hoopus, SBN's T-Wolves blog).


The Tool Man?

Buzz Lightyear?
   1752. andrewberg Posted: August 08, 2012 at 01:14 PM (#4203320)
Spain beats France by tightening up the defense and allowing only 6 4th qtr points. It's going to be tough to similarly shut down Team USA, but Spain has better defenders than anyone else USA will face in the tournament. They also held Batum/Parker to a combined 24 pts on 32 FGA. Diaw, of course, killed it with 15-8-5.

   1753. Conor Posted: August 08, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4203328)
http://twitpic.com/ah00y2

That also happened
   1754. I am going to be Frank Posted: August 08, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4203382)
Seriously wtf? Three (fairly blatant) crotch shots in the Olympics. Other than Reggie Evans little "touchie feelie" I don't ever remember any other incidents in the NBA.
   1755. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: August 08, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4203384)
http://twitpic.com/ah00y2

Not the first nut punch of these Olympics.
   1756. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: August 08, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4203387)
Other than Reggie Evans little "touchie feelie" I don't ever remember any other incidents in the NBA.

KG, Chris Paul...
   1757. Conor Posted: August 08, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4203391)
That seems like one of the more blatant nut punches I've seen in a while.
   1758. Booey Posted: August 08, 2012 at 02:17 PM (#4203424)
Other than Reggie Evans little "touchie feelie" I don't ever remember any other incidents in the NBA.

KG, Chris Paul...


Who did Paul sack slam? I don't remember that one.
   1759. kpelton Posted: August 08, 2012 at 02:34 PM (#4203451)
Julius Hodge, but that was in college, not the NBA.
   1760. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: August 08, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4203532)
Didn't he get Bruce Bowen, too? (Not saying Bowen didn't deserve it....) Google seems to think so, although I can't find a video that's not blocked here at work or hasn't been taken down.

---

WojYahooNBA: I asked Nicolas Batum why he hit Juan-Carlos Navarro in the groin. "I wanted to give him a good reason to flop," Batum said.
WojYahooNBA: Told Batum some won't think groin shot is in Olympic spirit. Batum: "Do you think if you lost a game on purpose, that's the Olympic spirit?"
WojYahooNBA: Batum said he believes that Spain tanked final preliminary game against Brazil to face France in quarterfinals.
WojYahooNBA: Finally, I asked Batum if he felt like his punch ultimately gave Navarro a 'good reason' to flop. "I hope so," Batum said.


Alrighty then...
   1761. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 09, 2012 at 09:40 AM (#4204136)
Yeah. I feel a bit less bad missing out on getting Batum.
   1762. Bitter Mouse Posted: August 09, 2012 at 10:38 AM (#4204209)
I am perhaps in a minority on this thread but I have not watched a single minute of Olymic basketball. For whatever reason it just does not iterest me. I am loving the rest of the Olypmics, so it is not that. I think I just find the US team not very likeable and that combined with the seeming inevitability of it all makes it kind of eh.

Based on the post rate recently though, maybe I am not alone on this.
   1763. andrewberg Posted: August 09, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4204350)
Not that fun to watch when you know results. I've watched pieces of games, but us games have been slow death for the other teams.
   1764. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: August 09, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4204444)
Same here.

---

If anything will get this thread going again before training camp, it's another Dwight Howard rumor!

The Orlando Magic and Los Angeles Lakers are engaged with the Denver Nuggets and Philadelphia 76ers in a four-way blockbuster that could ultimately deliver superstar center Dwight Howard to the Lakers, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

---

There are other players involved in these fluid talks, but a framework of the possible deal includes Howard and Denver forward Al Harrington going to the Lakers, Philadelphia guard Andre Iguodala going to the Nuggets, Los Angeles center Andrew Bynum moving to the 76ers, and Los Angeles forward Pau Gasol and Denver guard Arron Affalo going to the Magic, sources told Yahoo! Sports.


Orlando loses the most in this deal, IMO. (And I really like Gasol)

   1765. andrewberg Posted: August 09, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4204454)
Orlando loses the most in this deal, IMO. (And I really like Gasol)


Seems like there is more to that deal. I assume the idea would be to flip Gasol. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves offered Williams + Pekovic for Gasol, which would give them some higher upside young players (though Pekovic is a FA after this year, so he won't be cheap). There are probably similar or better deals out there for Gasol because teams are putting a high premium on star-level talent.
   1766. jmurph Posted: August 09, 2012 at 02:53 PM (#4204507)
Hmmmm, nothing seems obviously crazy about that deal to me, so it can't be right!

Well on second thought, LA is giving up way too much (or not getting enough in return), and Orlando isn't getting enough salary relief. So perhaps it's right after all (based on the premise that I don't know anything).
   1767. Jimmy P Posted: August 09, 2012 at 02:59 PM (#4204518)
Well on second thought, LA is giving up way too much (or not getting enough in return),

They'd be getting one of the three most valuable players in the league and getting salary relief. How is that not enough?

   1768. nick swisher hygiene Posted: August 09, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4204545)
as a Nugget fan I think Afflalo and Harrington are probably our two most overrated players, so I like the trade; more generally, whenever you can trade any number of B guys for an A guy, it's a good NBA trade, and who has more B level guys than Denver right now?
   1769. jmurph Posted: August 09, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4204553)
They'd be getting one of the three most valuable players in the league and getting salary relief. How is that not enough?


What salary relief? They're inheriting the Harrington contract.
   1770. andrewberg Posted: August 09, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4204585)
2012-13
Bynum + Gasol = $35.5m
Howard + Harrington = $26m

2014+
Bynum likely signs 5 year max, Gasol due over $19m for 13-14.
Harrington due $7m per year for 14&15;, supposedly only half guaranteed, Howard likely signs 5 year max.

Howard/Harrington save nearly $10m in year one, somewhere around $10m over rest of deals, all before tax is considered.
   1771. jmurph Posted: August 09, 2012 at 03:51 PM (#4204604)
Yes I understand their new team payroll will be lower, but I think "salary relief" is usually talked about in the context of undesirable contracts, as in the Magic demanding to include Turkoglu in any Howard deal. Neither Bynum nor Gasol fit the bill. You don't give up stars for the purpose of salary relief.

But to the larger point about the deal, there has been no comparable rumor in which the team receiving Howard was giving up nearly as much as both Bynum and Gasol.
   1772. andrewberg Posted: August 09, 2012 at 04:08 PM (#4204637)
Yes I understand their new team payroll will be lower, but I think "salary relief" is usually talked about in the context of undesirable contracts, as in the Magic demanding to include Turkoglu in any Howard deal. Neither Bynum nor Gasol fit the bill. You don't give up stars for the purpose of salary relief.


I see what you're getting at, but relieving them of salary obligations is relief whether they are getting value for that payment or not. If your doctor says I need to lose weight because it's bad for my knees, he's not going to say that I'm allowed to only lose fat and no muscle because the muscle has benefits outside of the pressure it puts on my knees.

But to the larger point about the deal, there has been no comparable rumor in which the team receiving Howard was giving up nearly as much as both Bynum and Gasol.


Absolutely. I agree that it is half-baked. Some (including Hollinger) have noted that it seems more like a gentle nudge to Houston to come up with a better offer.
   1773. andrewberg Posted: August 09, 2012 at 04:25 PM (#4204670)
Revisiting the conversation about Portland from a while ago, they have a solid starting lineup: Lillard (if early returns continue), Matthews (steadily average), Batum (I'm not going to be the one who says he's overpaid, I know what he's capable of), Hickson (meh), Aldridge (assuming the super-raw Leonard won't start from day 1).

The problem is their bench. I'm not sure it would make a good D-League team: Nolan Smith, Eliot Williams, Victor Claver, Jared Jeffries, Meyers Leonard. Aldridge is going to have to play about 44 minutes a night and never get hurt.
   1774. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: August 09, 2012 at 04:45 PM (#4204689)
I see what you're getting at, but relieving them of salary obligations is relief whether they are getting value for that payment or not. If your doctor says I need to lose weight because it's bad for my knees, he's not going to say that I'm allowed to only lose fat and no muscle because the muscle has benefits outside of the pressure it puts on my knees.

And in the Lakers case, they're going to be super-mega-ultimate tax payers, so $10mil is more like $40mil in a couple of years.
   1775. Jimmy P Posted: August 09, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4204694)
Nolan Smith, Eliot Williams, Victor Claver, Jared Jeffries, Meyers Leonard. Aldridge is going to have to play about 44 minutes a night and never get hurt.

They'll find another center. Aldridge doesn't like playing center, and no one in management seems intent on making him. They also have Will Barton signed (guaranteed deal for the 2nd rounder) and Luke Babbitt. Who's like Novak, and he has a huge fan club here (not that it should matter).

The team loves Nolan Smith, and so the general populace is high on him. I've never seen anything from him, in the NBA or at Duke, that would lead me to believe he's a viable rotation player on a good team. I can't believe he was drafted in the 1st round and one pick ahead of Kenneth Faried to boot. I think Williams, Babbitt, and Barton should be getting that time, but I know they'll waste some time on Smith.
   1776. jmurph Posted: August 09, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4204697)
And in the Lakers case, they're going to be super-mega-ultimate tax payers, so $10mil is more like $40mil in a couple of years.


That's fair. I'm torn, looking forward to the Lakers guys weighing in on this one. I think I'd lean towards keeping the team intact for this year if it means giving up both Bynum and Gasol, unless the final deal also involved a decent role player or two and some draft picks.
   1777. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: August 09, 2012 at 05:06 PM (#4204700)
Trivia: Name the only state that did not birth an NBA player (per bb-ref).
Next, name the country that has produced the most (outside of the US) - 17.
   1778. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 09, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4204713)
That's fair. I'm torn, looking forward to the Lakers guys weighing in on this one. I think I'd lean towards keeping the team intact for this year if it means giving up both Bynum and Gasol, unless the final deal also involved a decent role player or two and some draft picks.
I'm withh you, Murph. As much as I'd love to see Howard on the Lakers, giving up both Bynum and Gasol is just way too steep a talent cost.
   1779. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: August 09, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4204729)
The Orlando Magic and Los Angeles Lakers are engaged with the Denver Nuggets and Philadelphia 76ers in a four-way blockbuster that could ultimately deliver superstar center Dwight Howard to the Lakers, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

---

There are other players involved in these fluid talks, but a framework of the possible deal includes Howard and Denver forward Al Harrington going to the Lakers, Philadelphia guard Andre Iguodala going to the Nuggets, Los Angeles center Andrew Bynum moving to the 76ers, and Los Angeles forward Pau Gasol and Denver guard Arron Affalo going to the Magic, sources told Yahoo! Sports.


i don't believe it. i could see how it works for philly and denver, but i can't imagine the lakers only getting howard and harrington for bynum and gasol, and orlando getting gasol and afflalo really makes no sense for them, either in the short or the long term.
   1780. Jimmy P Posted: August 09, 2012 at 05:44 PM (#4204730)
I'm withh you, Murph. As much as I'd love to see Howard on the Lakers, giving up both Bynum and Gasol is just way too steep a talent cost.


I'd do it in a minute.
   1781. Booey Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4204745)
I'd do it in a minute.


Same. I tend to think that if you can get a top 3 player in his prime without even having to give up your own best player, you do it. Kobe/Howard/Nash is a helluva big 3. I think that team would be a serious contender, even if the rest of their roster blows.
   1782. Booey Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4204748)
Trivia: Name the only state that did not birth an NBA player (per bb-ref).


Alaska? I know Boozer lived there, but he was born on a military base in Germany.

Next, name the country that has produced the most (outside of the US) - 17.


Russia?
   1783. Manny Coon Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:10 PM (#4204749)
without even having to give up your own best player


They aren't giving up Bynum?
   1784. andrewberg Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4204753)
Is Phil Jackson officially listed as being born in ND? He is the only NBA player who even has close ties to ND. The only one who has been close in my life is Jeff Boschee, and I wouldn't say he was very close.
   1785. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:24 PM (#4204754)
Alaska? I know Boozer lived there, but he was born on a military base in Germany.


How dare you forget Trajan Langdon?

My guess is Maine.

Next, name the country that has produced the most (outside of the US) - 17.

Croatia?

I'm pretty sure there weren't 17 from Lithuania.
   1786. Booey Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4204756)
without even having to give up your own best player

They aren't giving up Bynum?


Think he's better than Kobe? Maybe in a couple of years...
   1787. Booey Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4204759)
Damn, I went against my first guess on the country and it turned out to be the correct one...

Also wrong on the state, but barely. A whopping one NBA player was born in Alaska (#1785 - It's Mario Chalmers, not Trajan Langdon)

19 players from my state, which is more than I would've guessed; probably cuz all but 2 of them were scrubs (Tom Chambers, Byron Scott)
   1788. Manny Coon Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:37 PM (#4204763)
Think he's better than Kobe? Maybe in a couple of years...


I think he was better than Kobe this past season and given their ages he's likely to repeat it next year. Kobe is still very good, but I think his fame and reputation overshadowed what a great season Bynum had and few places Kobe slipped. Kobe gets most of his value from scoring and had a career low in TS% this year and many of his other number were down from the previous year as well and he's going to 34 next season. Also if they don't make a move for Howard, I think Kobe's volume scoring will be less valuable on a team that has more efficient scorers in Bynum, Gasol and Nash.

   1789. Booey Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:40 PM (#4204764)
Now that Der K got me looking at random frivolities on BBREF rather than working, 14 NBA players share my birthday (today, actually), but none were born in the same year. Having to share a birthday with Derek Fisher is bad, but somewhat balanced out by Bob Cousy.

Can anyone beat Cousy with a player that shares their birthday?
   1790. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:55 PM (#4204773)
Can anyone beat Cousy with a player that shares their birthday?

The best player born on my birthday is Larry Brown, HOF coach.

Damn, I went against my first guess on the country and it turned out to be the correct one...

Can't say I would have ever guessed that one right.
   1791. Fourth True Outcome Posted: August 09, 2012 at 06:58 PM (#4204776)
I'm going to guess Vermont for the state.

As for birthdays, it turns out July 29th is pretty marginal for NBA players. It looks like Scott Wedman is the best it can muster.
   1792. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: August 09, 2012 at 07:00 PM (#4204777)
Can anyone beat Cousy with a player that shares their birthday?
i think my guy has him beat, but then, of course i would.
   1793. JJ1986 Posted: August 09, 2012 at 07:01 PM (#4204778)
I know Greg Paulus was born on my birthday; he never played in the NBA.

Bostjan Nachbar and an ABA player named Collis Jones look like they had the best careers.
   1794. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 09, 2012 at 07:09 PM (#4204786)
The best I've got are David Greenwood and George McCloud. Meh. However, free throw king Blake Ahearn also shares my birthday.

It's a pretty dry well.
   1795. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: August 09, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4204795)
David Greenwood and Scott Wedman both had over 10-year careers. I think we need to have pretty low expectations for an NBA birthday player.

My MLB birthday team may be one of the worst ever, but Greg Anthony, Bob Dandridge and Sasha Pavlovic are all NBA players I've heard of, at least.
   1796. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: August 09, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4204846)
Vermont is correct.
   1797. smileyy Posted: August 09, 2012 at 08:24 PM (#4204850)
I think we need to have pretty low expectations for an NBA birthday player.


We can't expect the top 50 to be represented across all 365 (or 366) birthdays?
   1798. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: August 09, 2012 at 08:32 PM (#4204855)
Willis Reed, Dikembe and Dell Curry. I can live with that.
   1799. andrewberg Posted: August 09, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4204923)
I guess all it took to get a deal done was for Orlando to accept absolutely nothing back.

My birthday guys are Connie Hawkins and Kevin Pritchard. Solid.
   1800. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: August 09, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4204927)
flip-flip-flipadelphia
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