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I LOVE these kind of stats.
First, Monta Ellis made this list too.
Chris Paul missed this by 0.2 points per game. Deron Williams missed this by all of one minute. Tony Parker missed this by 1.2 points (even though he had a higher TS%) and 77 minutes. Still great company. Joe Johnson missed this by 1.2 points (again a higher TS% than Bryant) and 0.3 in assist rate. Brandon Jennings missed this by 0.9 points. Bryant is still a very good player, but the leaps we make to put him above the likes of Paul and Williams is astounding to me.
Rumor!
Bleacher Report is often just BS, but the new rumor there is Cleveland will get into a Howard/Brooklyn deal as the third team and it is "close." BR says that Ken Berger/CBS says that CLE wants Humphries. Also buzz that Bynum said he would not sign an extension in ORL. As people here, know, though, and as Deron Williams said directly last year and then went on to do, that doesn't really have to mean anything, since there are advantages from the player's POV to re-signing with the old team as an FA, rather than extending while under contract.
I take back everything bad I said about Billy King if this deal works out. Williams/Howard/Wallace/Johnson is a title contender for sure.
Incidentally, wouldn't a three team deal w/ HOU/LAL/ORL possibly make sense?
**
rumor! (this way, i'm not claiming stuff if it's untrue + it's easy to see that you can ignore the post if yer so inclined)
Memphis to keep Darrell Arthur, 2 yr deal w/ an option. $ worth 9-10m, per Chris Vernon, but I don't know if that's irrespective of the option or not, or who controls the third year.
Dan Gilbert can help put another team in the East that could possibly get in LeBron's way?
(I am 90% kidding--but not totally).
Since it wasn't part of a sign-and-trade I don't think they could trade him until well into the season.
Yeah, I always associate them, too. Williams rebounds a little more, shoots a little less. But they're pretty similar. (And Williams, by the way, will make 8.3 million this season as part of a 5-year deal for 37.3 million -- in other words, something in the neighorhood of what Jeff Green has supposedly signed for.)
They're both mediocre defenders. Williams has better shooting percentages and gets to the line more. He's also a better rebounder and turns the ball over less.
My point is that Boston can have Green, or not have Green, but if they want him, something like this is probably what he costs. You think Boston should just not sign him, and I tend to agree. But what he's about to get will probably not be far from the going rate for a player of his age and pedigree. And if they choose not to sign him, their options for other players to add for this season, when they're clearly trying to semi-contend again, are very limited.
Now it's being reported as Humphries and a pick to Cleveland, which is the only way it makes sense.
Adrian Woj saying talks are a 3-team 14-player deal with possibility of a 4th team coming in to take MarShon Brooks for a draft pick the Nets can then send. Nets taking back at least one of the terrible contracts--Hedo or Richardson.
It seems impossible to me to think the Nets have enough assets to satisfy both the Magic to get Howard, and the Cavaliers for use of their salary space to sign a player. Especially with the Stepien rule restricting what draft picks they can deal. Then somebody has to convince Kris Humphries to play along - If he has other options it's hard to see him wanting to play in Cleveland just to make Dwight Howard happy.
That may be true, but it's something I don't understand. What he costs apparently is roughly the same as what other players who are much better than he is cost. I'd rather have one 37 year old Kevin Garnett than 4 prime Jeff Greens, even if the total cost was the same, yet Green is getting slightly more money, although over an extra year.
I'd rather overpay Ray Allen 4/36 than have Green, especially since with Sullinger and Bass on the team, another PF is not a pressing need.
Is that possible while keeping Wallace, Johnson, and D-Will?
From my calculations: Richardson, probably. Turkoglu, impossible.
It appears so. But it's got to more likely be Richardson, since his deal is for less per year (it has 2 years and a PO left on it).
It seems impossible to me to think the Nets have enough assets to satisfy both the Magic to get Howard, and the Cavaliers for use of their salary space to sign a player.
I totally agree, and that's why this is so fascinating to see it play out.
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I wasn't around, but the Lakers deal for Nash is great for them. So was the Hornets deal for Anderson, though I also wonder if they really had to give up Ayon to keep the Magic from matching; considering the return they're likely to get for Dwight why would they want this deal on their books?
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Meanwhile, Hollinger on Twitter: "Bulls apparently using taxpayer MLE on Hinrich, via @KCJHoop report, which is sign they likely keep Korver and may even match Asik." Seems like good news for Bulls fans, yes?
It doesn't have to be the taxpayer MLE, but it is 2yr, $6mil. It could be part of the bigger MLE. And he's the only one to speculate this, so I would still be surprised to see the Bulls match on Asik. If they did what Hollinger is guessing here, that means the Bulls are pretty happy with Rose's rehab and must think he'll be back well before the playoffs and they can compete for the title. Otherwise, there's no way they're even considering paying the tax.
And it's a damn shame if they don't make a better effort to get Courtney Lee. Hell, they could probably work with the Rockets to make the Asik deal a S&T. It's also a shame if they've picked Hinrich over Lee.
To respond to 426 a little bit, and to try to think about what somebody like Danny sees, I think the argument would go like this: he's not a power forward. I think this is what Danny sees in him. He's a small forward who was miscast in Oklahoma City and then in Boston when he got there because of positional needs. Moreover, he didn't fit in Oklahoma City because he was a lesser version of their best player. He is a 3/4 who can space the floor with a solid mid-range jump shot, can knockdown threes sometimes (I find the trend in his career threes weird, will assume the truth is probably closer to his career percentage), and he's athletic. Jeff Green provides no value in terms of spacing when he's playing with Keivn Durant. Moreover, when he played in Oklahoma City, they got destroyed defensively because the fit wasn't right, and because Ibaka and Durant still weren't that good defensively.
In Boston, he'll have value. He'll be playing with Rondo who needs some guys who can actually get out and run with him. Maybe Rondo, Bradley, and Green can spend some time together on the court and actually take advantage of Rondo's speed. If he's just playing the 3 for 15-20 minutes a game, and the 4 for another 15/20, with the right players around him, he spreads the floor, defends the correct position and makes sense.
I don't buy it all, but I certainly by that he didn't make sense in OKC.
Hollinger noted that the Cavs can sign Humphries to a 3-year deal, but only have one of them guaranteed. It becomes worth it for Cleveland if they get a first. Especially if they're able to flip Humphries for anything at the deadline.
It's also a lot hypocritical to protest the Chris Paul trade and then take part in the Dwight Howard one.
Sort of. But how does that help the Nets get Howard? Cleveland would have to give something up that the Nets can give to Orlando. Why would they do that if they have the cap room to just sign him outright. The only way I can see Humphries as an asset is if a capped out team wants to sign him. Either Billy King is a mad genius or a complete imbecile. The fact that they had to revise the Teletovic contract to the taxpayer MLE after it had been agreed to when they realized using the non-taxpayer MLE would kill their chances at Howard leads me to believe the latter.
Because I'm pretty sure the Nets have to dump Humphries and more to take Howard and a bad contract back. But, I also think Orlando doesn't want Humphries because they're close to the cap.
I think Cleveland's just looking to get an extra pick somewhere for taking someone's trash for a year. Not a bad deal.
It gives the Nets a TPE to absorb Howard (or Richardson/Turk) into.
EDIT: Coke to Jimmy.
Thanks. The NBA salary cap is weird.
I think they keep it. But it can't be combined with a Humphries TPE.
Well, it'll be a 3 year, and I'd say $7-8 per year. Sound about right? I can't imagine paying him more than that, he's a one-trick pony.
I still have my doubts this happens. Any time you get these huge trades with multiple teams and lots of players, the probability goes way down. Still think Dwight is dealt very soon, just not sure it's going to be to the Nyets.
Also buzz that Bynum said he would not sign an extension in ORL
He did say he'd sign in Cleveland, though. WTF? The guy's an immature airhead, I bet he'd sign wherever he gets the most money which is why I think Orlando should take the chance.
I just spent about half an hour working this out. It’s probably not right, but I’m trying to maximize the salary Brooklyn can take back. Theoretically, they could:
• Trade Marshon Brooks and the remainder of the TPE to Charlotte for BJ Mullens ($2.2m).
• S&T Humprhies to Cleveland for Luke Walton ($6.1m) and Boobie Gibson ($4.8m).
• S&T Gerald Green (anywhere) for a TPE ($3m? I can’t see him getting more).
• Trade Mullens, Walton, Gibson, the TPE and Lopez to Orlando for Howard ($19.5m) and Turkoglu ($11.8m). Lopez would need to sign for around $9m.
This is what I've been wondering. I can't believe they aren't a playoff team, but they have to be 7 or 8. They just don't have much. I have to think that the smartest move is to just sign one year deals, let this roll until next year, and see if you can then do a trade or free agent signing. It sure sucks for Dallas, and wasting a year of Dirk here at the end is bad, but I can't see them doing anything else.
That kind of strikes me as the fate of an older expensive ensemble team.
I don't think [440] is likely, but it's a good guess as any I've seen. I don't see why Orlando is getting saddled with Gibson and Walton. You don't have any picks included, and there's going to be a bunch (and there's a lot of who has their picks left to deal). From everything we've seen, they're trying to get Humprhies for a non-asset (or future later pick worse than what they'd have to be giving the Cavs to be involved) so they have a larger TPE to take back a contract from Orlando.
Nash: Really good work by the Lakers. The complaints about offensive overlap are dumb and misguided. If the Lakers were excited about adding Sessions because he could get guys easier looks, then getting Nash is magnitudes better in the same way. Plus, he is going to be able to get Kobe and Pau the ball in positions where they can shoot without having to expend much energy. I think that is one of the things Rondo does for Pierce and KG, and I think it will similarly benefit LA. It also makes the team's bench almost irrelevant because you can run Nash/Pau PNRs for 15 minutes, then run Kobe/Bynum inside out isos for 15 minutes, and all four guys have ample rest. There will be perimeter defensive issues, but the Lakers struggling to guard PGs is a permanent fait accompli.
Jeff Green: I know I have defended Green on here many times because I went to school with him and spent some time with him, then went to law school with his fiance. He is an incredibly nice and humble guy. That does not make him worth that contract. I am less surprised by the AAV than the years. I think Joel did a good job outlining the upside a few posts ago, but he is going to have to take big steps forward to approach that. He was an outstanding defender in college and that has not shown itself in the pros. He also had a much better iso mid range game that we haven't seen (possibly due to playing with KD). I will hope for the best.
Howard: This whole thing seems crazy. It is hard for me to believe that this Nets deal is the best one on the table, even if it is just for one year of Howard.
Love: I guess Kevin Love said in an interview that he feels left out among Team USA guys because he hasn't made the playoffs. I couldn't tell how much of it was him lashing out and how much of it was just ####-stirring by the writer (Y!, but Spears, not Woj). Like I said before, if the team is still crappy 3 years from now, it is time to blow it up anyway. If the climb up to the bottom edge of the playoffs this year, they still have enough young guys to keep improving and be pretty competitive for the last couple years of his current contract. It's a shame that the star player is kind of unhappy, but I get it and I am glad that he is fiery.
I left picks out because I couldn't begin to guess at them. Humphries for a TPE gets you the actual value of his contract, but if you ship him for players you can get the actual value +$5 million (I think). Reports now are that it's Richardson, not Turkoglu, though, so there shouldn't by any complex machinations required.
Couldn't Cleveland use Brooks, and won't he have more value than a first round pick from the superNets?
Starting to sound less insane. Kind of depends on how useful that last 1st rounder would be.
Isn't Clark a free agent? Why would anyone have to eat his contract?
Those picks from the Nets are going to be awful.
He opted in to his contract last week.
I can only assume that they're scared that Bynum will leave at the end of the year. The only other benefit to this deal would be the mystery team pick. Would anyone with room sacrifice a lotto pick for Brooks?
I'd think less than that. They're losing their best players, and while Bynum's good, I don't think he's good enough to carry JJ Redick, Hedo, and Jameer Nelson to 40 wins.
What are they if they take this deal? A little less in the hole and playing the lottery for the next five years?
It should really be 1-5 years because if they hit, they aren't really worried about it after that.
Maybe these low first rounders that teams are getting should really be viewed as chips to trade up. Cleveland never quite got there, but they were repeatedly close to moving up from 4 to 2 with the 24 pick. They ended up trading lower picks to move up to 17. I am not going to say they're great assets, but they're not quite junk.
You just want the Lakers to get Howard. :-)
But yes, unless the Magic are convinced that Bynum won't stay, which he's already saying that he won't. If I were running Orlando, I think I'd rather have 1st round picks than a one year rental.
Green: I am still not seeing it. What Ainge seems to think is that Green is a B+ version of 2010 Lamar Odom--a guy who does a bit of everything, and therefore gives you a lot of flexibility. But I don't see that Green really does anything well enough that you'd want to give him 4/36. 2/10 or so, probably.
Love: I don't see it as a big deal. He has always talked a lot, going back to UCLA days.
People saying that Minnesota is interested in Jordan Hill, pending the Batum thing. Due to a CBA rule, the Lakers can only pay Hill 3.6 or 3.8M, (not sure which, but it is right around there). All Lakers fans, including Buss and Kupchak, seem to want Hill back on the team, but they have that limitation, so we will see what happens.
That said, reapeating myself but I think it matters, to me if you are going Bynum, you keep Anderson. If you are going Lopez and picks, you might say a guy like Ayon makes more sense.
Last time a good Laker team could guard a PG was probably back when Jerry West was playing. That's why they've only won 10 titles in those 40 years.
They might get a good pick out of this. Since you can only trade picks every other year the last one might come after Dwight's Brooklyn time is over.
I agree *but* it sounds like Orlando may not have wanted Anderson at that price regardless.
Low firsts: Definitely not junk, but also not super exciting. The value difference b/w #6 and #25 in the draft is enormous.
***
Don't really need it right now, but... here's a few trivia questions, brought on by a off-site discussion of one-time All-Star, long time player Juwan Howard.
1) What players have the records for longest NBA career (19 seasons) and most regular season games played (1286), respectively, without an All-Star appearance^?
2) Conversely, who had the shortest career of any multiple All-Star, by games played (non-actives*, careers that began after '60 - to eliminate Maurice Stokes and (also) a few obscure dudes)?
^ Rod Strickland is 14th in the latter category, incidentally. This question is dominated by big men as you can get slow, but you don't tend to get small.
* if you include actives, it's Blake Griffin.
Several of the rumors have mentioned that the Magic prefer Lopez to anything that the Rockets can offer. So far, Houston is really the only team that seems to be ok with renting Howard and ok with just hoping to keep him long term. At one point, GS was mentioned, but that was a while ago now. With all the drama the Magic have dealt with the past year, it makes sense there aren't a whole lot of other teams that are willing to take on a lame duck (and recovering) Howard. It also sounds like the Magic are tired of playing hardball with him and just want this whole thing over already, even if they're publicly saying they're going to be patient.
Had Rose not been injured, I could have imagined a scenario where the Bulls would be interested (say, they're 100% healthy but still got dominated by Miami in the ECF) and would try to convince him to stay, but be ok with cap space and what's left if he signed elsewhere after the season.
My guess on one of the non-allstars is Caldwell Jones. Probably for the years.
Shortest career: Drazen Petrovic?
I am counting ABA All-Star games, because I didn't specify NBA only in my search. Probably moot.
EDIT: Nope, both made one AS game.
Not sure if anyone else addressed this question, but the purpose is for the team receiving the player to go over their cap exceptions and functionally pay the player as if they had his Bird rights. We just saw Ray Allen sign for $3m pa in MIA instead of taking 2/$12m in Boston. Both teams were over the cap. BOS could offer more because they had his Bird rights. If he wanted to go to MIA (and the teams theoretically were not rivals), BOS could have S&T'd him to MIA and got some middling asset in return.
Seems/feels like a pretty big commitment at first blush.
MANY EDITS: selected each of his 8 years, 486 games. Ralph Sampson had 456 games and 4 AS. Micheal Ray Richardson made it to 556 games which is a lot more than I would have guessed. Brad Daugherty 548.
Again, why don't the Cavs want him?
I'm happy to have him back, and that fits in neatly with what looks like our window of opportunity... but that strikes me as an overpay. Regardless, I'd love for the Knicks to bring back Shawne Williams, provided he comes cheap. I think a bench with Novak and Williams could cause other teams fits.
Because he's an RFA, and a signed offer sheet would completely *($# up the giant Howard S&T he needs to be a part of?
This offseason, I've become not-a-fan of, as they exist:
1. Restricted Free Agency
2. Bird Rights (to a lesser extent) -- the team losing a Bird Rights player needs something in compensation to fill the hole left behind. Basically, the C's could sign one particular Ray Allen like player (Ray Allen) for, say, 2/12. But if he doesn't take that offer, they can sign every other Ray Allen like player for only, say, 2/4. That bugs me.
I assume [483] is a joke referencing Toronto signing Fields.
Yes. No*. Yes.
*Well, yes, for the MLE, which might just be the smaller tax payer MLE of $3mil, and that would immediately be matched by the Nets immediately.
I gotta say, this is a massive conflict of interest. And I see no reason why Humpries should agree to a one year deal - in Cleveland - for anything less than a nice raise on the $8mil he made last year when he signed a 1 year deal.
Just drafted a guy that plays the same position?
The Cavs make some really puzzling moves. This would be one of those.
I guess 6th man isn't really a position, but one of them would have to be the 7th man then.
In all seriousness, I agree with robin and whoever else has pointed out Dan Gilbert's BS by being involved in this. It's practically a middle finger to the Lakers.
And isn't Kris Humphries about as similar a player to Anderson Varejao as there is?
No idea, but I think it's funny that we live in a world where apparently no one cares to pick up Kris Humprhies and Jeff Green is sitting on 4 eyars and 36 million or whatever.
And isn't Kris Humphries about as similar a player to Anderson Varejao as there is?
I don't see the comp. To me, Humphries is a pure rebounder/putback guy whereas Varejao's value is in his defense.
I understand the Nets want the trade exception from Cleveland to take back another player from Orlando, but how are they able to trade Humphries to the Cavs? They are over the cap, don't the salaries at least need to come close to matching?
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