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Saturday, February 01, 2014

OT: NBA February 2014

In total, 14 former Lakers are under contract with other teams—more if training camp invites and traded draft picks are included:
Charlotte Bobcats: Ramon Sessions, Josh McRoberts, Jannero Pargo and Chris Douglas-Roberts (training camp invite)
Cleveland Cavaliers: Earl Clark
Clippers: Matt Barnes, Antawn Jamison
Houston Rockets: Dwight Howard, Patrick Beverley (drafted 42nd overall in 2009, traded immediately to the Miami Heat)
Indiana Pacers: Andrew Bynum
Miami Heat: Toney Douglas (drafted 29th overall in 2009, traded immediately to the New York Knicks)
Milwaukee Bucks: Caron Butler
Minnesota Timberwolves: Ronny Turiaf
New York Knicks: Metta World Peace
Oklahoma City Thunder: Derek Fisher
Phoenix Suns: Gerald Green (training camp invite)
San Antonio Spurs: Shannon Brown
Utah Jazz: Malcolm Thomas (training camp invite)
Washington Wizards: Trevor Ariza

Bitter Mouse Posted: February 01, 2014 at 04:05 PM | 740 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba

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   101. Spivey Posted: February 05, 2014 at 01:30 PM (#4652065)
The Embiid story did specifically mention that he didn't think he was ready for the NBA and that he didn't need the money. I still strongly doubt it too, though.
   102. andrewberg Posted: February 05, 2014 at 01:31 PM (#4652066)

Good point. I would also suggest that big-time college ball at places like Duke and Kansas is really fun and intense this time of year: the buzz and energy at the conference games, tournament coming up, winter vibe on campus etc. and that may have an effect. I would guess that things will look different ot these guys in late March and early April when the season is over and there are millions of dollars on the table.


To your point that things will look different- these are 18-19 year old kids who have the equivalent of a full time job playing CBB and have a full load of college classes on top of that. There is a pretty good chance they have not had a chance to evaluate the big picture even if they are predisposed to retrospection. Many of them probably have not even started to think about the specifics of turning pro. When they get to that point, the money (as you said) will become a more tangible reality, as will lots of other factors they have never considered.
   103. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 05, 2014 at 01:34 PM (#4652070)
The Embiid story did specifically mention that he didn't think he was ready for the NBA and that he didn't need the money. I still strongly doubt it too, though.

I don't think I'm ready for the NBA nor do I NEED the money, but if some team is willing to make me a millionaire right now, I'll take it. ####, I would take making me a thousandaire as well. I agree with the general board consensus that these stories are silly and when we're discussing guys earmarked for the Top 5 picks the assumption should always be that they're going. Marcus Smart aside.
   104. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: February 05, 2014 at 02:25 PM (#4652112)
I think Embiid will, and definitely should, turn pro, but he has talked openly about his cultural immaturity, especially regarding nutrition and not learning to drive yet, as being hurdles he might want to clear before moving on to the adult world, which seems fair.

I guess I'd put his chances of playing at Kansas as a sophomore at "almost nil" rather than "absolutely nil."
   105. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 05, 2014 at 03:16 PM (#4652148)
This morning, Phoenix radio jocks discussing the Suns' loss to Chicago were determined to sell the narrative that the team played poorly due to the Gasol trade rumors.

That the Suns had a terrible offensive night against the NBA's second-best defense must've been a coincidence.
   106. andrewberg Posted: February 05, 2014 at 04:24 PM (#4652193)
While we're on the subject of rumors with no substance that were created to fill blog space, ESPN has a series of articles on the idea of Lebron to the Clippers today. The underlying quote that gave rise to the articles is a source saying that Lebron knows he can go to any team that he wants. Surprise, surprise, the Heat are playing the Clippers on ESPN tonight.
   107. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 05, 2014 at 05:18 PM (#4652237)
Putting LeBron and Durant in perspective:
This line was defined as TS= 0.9 - 0.89*USG, and it implied that there was a limit on the combined usage and efficiency at the highest level of basketball play. You could have a ridiculous .665 true shooting season like Barkley in '87-88 (26.7% usage), or you can have a ridiculous 38.7% usage season like Kobe in '05-'06 (.559 true shooting), but it looked like you couldn't have it both ways—although 1989-90 Malone got close.

Of course, that boundary line was calculated almost two years ago. As you can see in the chart at the top, LeBron James and Kevin Durant finished just south of the boundary line for 2011-12, which, as Zamir put it at the time, "gives you some idea how great those other seasons were." Both are now far beyond Zamir's boundary, in a space uncharted by even the very greatest scorers, putting together seasons with a combination of usage and efficiency that are unprecedented in modern NBA history. If these stat lines hold, or if they even just regress a bit, 2013-14 could have not one, but two of the most remarkable offensive performances the league has ever seen.
   108. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 05, 2014 at 07:35 PM (#4652336)
While we're on the subject of rumors with no substance that were created to fill blog space, ESPN has a series of articles on the idea of Lebron to the Clippers today. The underlying quote that gave rise to the articles is a source saying that Lebron knows he can go to any team that he wants. Surprise, surprise, the Heat are playing the Clippers on ESPN tonight.
And it's #### like this keeping me from watching SportsCenter and all other non-game programming on ESPN. Not quite as bad as Bayless discussing whether TEEEEEEE-BOW! could've led this Broncos team to the Super Bowl, but it's up there.
   109. JJ1986 Posted: February 05, 2014 at 08:17 PM (#4652363)
The Clippers are about $20m over the cap and everyone important is signed through next year. Are they supposed to be handing Griffin away to add LeBron?
   110. andrewberg Posted: February 05, 2014 at 08:26 PM (#4652367)
And it's #### like this keeping me from watching SportsCenter and all other non-game programming on ESPN. Not quite as bad as Bayless discussing whether TEEEEEEE-BOW! could've led this Broncos team to the Super Bowl, but it's up there.


I'm in the same boat. I spent half of December in Costa Rica and ESPN 2 was one of about 4 English channels. The few times I watched TV, I had that on in the background and I was appalled at how shallow and ratings-grabby it was. I guess it works because people turn it on, but it seems like the Taco Bell of sports TV- passable when you've been drinking, but otherwise barely tolerable and will make you sick to your stomach when you revisit its consumption later.
   111. RollingWave Posted: February 05, 2014 at 09:04 PM (#4652384)
The Clippers are about $20m over the cap and everyone important is signed through next year. Are they supposed to be handing Griffin away to add LeBron?


I would do that trade everyday and twice on sunday yes, and I'm actually a pretty big Blake backer.

Just like if you need to trade Harden + Jones or even Parsons for Lebron? do it.


   112. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 05, 2014 at 10:28 PM (#4652425)
Tim Duncan is amazing.

Also amazing, the ending of Lakers-Cavs tonight.
   113. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 05, 2014 at 11:03 PM (#4652435)
Karl Malone, Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan are the only players 37 or older to have a game where they scored at least 25 points, had 10 rebounds and 5 assists since '85. Tim Duncan had 31/11/5 tonight.
   114. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 05, 2014 at 11:22 PM (#4652440)
That penalty for playing a dude who's fouled out seems pretty small -- basically if he doesn't get a 7th foul it's just a single tech. Seems like it might be worth doing in many cases, though I suppose it's only allowed if you claim the rest of your guys are injured? (which I guess means you can't sub anyone else out either)
   115. nick swisher hygiene Posted: February 05, 2014 at 11:39 PM (#4652449)
how about exponential free throws: 4 for the 7th foul, then 8.....could lead to some wacky end-game hijinks!
   116. Manny Coon Posted: February 06, 2014 at 01:54 AM (#4652482)
What is it that Jamal Crawford does that gets him fouled on some many three point attempts? Something weird with his follow through or how he positions his body or something?
   117. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 06, 2014 at 02:28 AM (#4652488)
[116] Long limbs and great body control. Knows how to create that good ol Reggie Miller contact without making it obvious.

EDIT: Helps that he so often tends to be shooting off balance and drifting forward or falling away.
   118. RollingWave Posted: February 06, 2014 at 06:46 AM (#4652500)
Crawford is a guy I hate seeing him shoot when i'm rooting for the opposing team, he hits so many bad looking shot convincingly.
   119. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 06, 2014 at 11:15 AM (#4652561)
Groundbreaking stuff from Goldsberry over at Grantland today:
If we can estimate the EPV of any moment of any given game, we can start to quantify performance in a more sophisticated way. We can derive the “value” of things like entry passes, dribble drives, and double-teams. We can more accurately quantify which pick-and-roll defenses work best against certain teams and players. By extracting and analyzing the game’s elementary acts, we can isolate which little pieces of basketball strategy are more or less effective, and which players are best at executing them.
   120. jmurph Posted: February 06, 2014 at 11:53 AM (#4652591)
Groundbreaking stuff from Goldsberry over at Grantland today


Yeah that's really interesting stuff. Looking forward to seeing how this takes off.
   121. Jimmy P Posted: February 06, 2014 at 01:57 PM (#4652669)
Woj just tweeted that the Cavs have fired Chris Grant.
   122. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 06, 2014 at 02:06 PM (#4652677)
In the West it is quite possible to fall out of the playoffs even if your a pretty damn good team.


This is true, and I guess Bogut and Curry are hardly guarantees to stay healthy...

I would do that trade everyday and twice on sunday yes, and I'm actually a pretty big Blake backer.

Just like if you need to trade Harden + Jones or even Parsons for Lebron? do it.


Ditto, and I think either would be a no-brainer for the Heat if Lebron really wants to leave. I'm wondering who the worst player the Heat would consider doing a S&T of Lebron for though? Say Lebron really is set on going to the Clippers, would the Heat be willing to do a deal centered around Jordan+ (whatever is necessary for it to work under the cap)? Or if he wanted to play with The Slim Reaper, would the Heat accept a deal around Ibaka+? On the one hand they would be getting good players in exchange for someone who wants to leave anyway, but if there's any chance Lebron would decide to stay if the Heat refuse to help him get to his desired team I don't think either player would be good enough to do it.
   123. andrewberg Posted: February 06, 2014 at 02:28 PM (#4652697)
I think a lot of people got over the superfriends problem as Lebron emerged as the clear alpha male on the Miami roster, but if he went to play with Durant next year, that would come back with a fiery vengeance.
   124. jmurph Posted: February 06, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4652717)
I think I posed this a while back but didn't get any traction: what are the odds Bosh and Wade opt-out? And the Heat would have to let them leave, right, assuming they found a way to keep Lebron? That seems like the perfect scenario for Miami (though they may prefer to keep Bosh, too, I don't know).
   125. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 06, 2014 at 03:05 PM (#4652723)
Perfect scenario for MIA involves convincing Wade to opt out and Bosh and James to opt-in, then putting on a media press that you have no idea why Wade opted out and if he doesn't value winning/MIA you're not going to pursue him and then going forward with the team from there.
   126. andrewberg Posted: February 06, 2014 at 03:21 PM (#4652736)
Perfect scenario for MIA involves convincing Wade to opt out and Bosh and James to opt-in, then putting on a media press that you have no idea why Wade opted out and if he doesn't value winning/MIA you're not going to pursue him and then going forward with the team from there.


How much does that really help them? If they all opt in, that's only a one year deal for each. If only Wade opts out, they have about $49-50m committed to Bosh, James, Haslem (who is bound to opt in), Cole, and Andersen. They need to fill out a roster with another 10 guys with less than $10m in cap space and minimum deals. I don't think they are going to get more value in 2015 from that arrangement than they would out of the combination of Wade, bird rights on Chalmers (and maybe Oden, Beasley, etc), and the cap exceptions. If you want to talk about long term commitments to Wade, that's another question, but I still think it will be hard for them to acquire someone who approximates his diminished value.
   127. andrewberg Posted: February 06, 2014 at 03:32 PM (#4652742)
So Chris Grant follows the owner's misguided edict to make the playoffs or else, it backfires as everyone expected it to, and now he loses his job for it. If they weren't in win now mode, they might not have spent all that money on Jarret Jack, probably would not have drafted Bennett over Noel and may not have taken Waiters over Drummond (both highly speculative, I know). I guess he got to have a dream job, so I won't feel too sorry for him. Even still, it seems like a lot of the bad decisions he made were pushed onto him.
   128. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 06, 2014 at 03:32 PM (#4652743)
[126] Don't have any numbers in front of me so I could be wrong both in terms of $ and performance, but I think Bosh is capable of handling a much larger load. You could hypothetically get someone(a couple people?) who aren't as good as Wade but fit a Bosh/LeBron team really nicely and go from there while just asking Bosh and James (to an extent) to use more possessions.
   129. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 06, 2014 at 03:35 PM (#4652744)
[127] My thoughts exactly. That situation is an absolute mess. I saw some stat along the lines of the Cavs averaging 60 wins in LeBron's last 3 years and having 60 wins total in the 3+ years since he left.
   130. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 06, 2014 at 04:16 PM (#4652774)
[127] My thoughts exactly. That situation is an absolute mess. I saw some stat along the lines of the Cavs averaging 60 wins in LeBron's last 3 years and having 60 wins total in the 3+ years since he left.

The Deng trade might not cost them anything (what with all the conditions on the Kings pick) except money, and getting anything for Bynum was good. But rumors are Deng isn't sticking around there no matter what.

How much does that really help them? If they all opt in, that's only a one year deal for each. If only Wade opts out, they have about $49-50m committed to Bosh, James, Haslem (who is bound to opt in), Cole, and Andersen. They need to fill out a roster with another 10 guys with less than $10m in cap space and minimum deals. I don't think they are going to get more value in 2015 from that arrangement than they would out of the combination of Wade, bird rights on Chalmers (and maybe Oden, Beasley, etc), and the cap exceptions. If you want to talk about long term commitments to Wade, that's another question, but I still think it will be hard for them to acquire someone who approximates his diminished value.

2 years, although 15/16 are player options for all 3.

Random guessing/musing/bullshitting, I think Bosh is the most likely to leave (to have a team on his own) and Wade is the most likely to stay. I think it's still more likely that all 3 stay than any of them leaving (I could see Bosh and LBJ opting out and getting new max deals, but I don't know if Wade will get the same one if he opts out). Say, Wade opts out and gets 3rs/$50mil, so it's more guaranteed money and a lower cap hit over the next 3 years (don't quote me on the exact, since there's only so much less he can take). Once again, I think a lot depends on how the season ends for them - in a title or if there's a big injury or a crushing disappointment.

   131. AROM Posted: February 06, 2014 at 05:01 PM (#4652800)
Perfect scenario for MIA involves convincing Wade to opt out and Bosh and James to opt-in, then putting on a media press that you have no idea why Wade opted out and if he doesn't value winning/MIA you're not going to pursue him and then going forward with the team from there.


I don't think that's possible. These guys will talk to each other before making the new decision. I mean, that's how they all ended up together in the first place, right?

If I'm Lebron, I stay with the Heat because it's my best chance to keep going to the NBA finals. In the East, they are competing with Indy, who have a great and young team. But what else? How long will it take for another East team to rise to contender level? What teams have enough young talent to conceivably make the rise within the next 3-4 years, Washington? Toronto?

Now in the west, no matter what team he joins he's just on one of many contenders. Houston has made blockbuster additions of Howard and Harden, have a smartly run team, and fill out the roster with useful players. And as of today they are the 5 seed. If Lebron goes anywhere in the west he'll be reducing his chances of playing in the final game just because the competition is stronger.
   132. jmurph Posted: February 06, 2014 at 05:20 PM (#4652807)
I don't think that's possible. These guys will talk to each other before making the new decision.


Talking about it doesn't mean they all make the same decision. It could be best for Wade to opt-in to avoid the risk that the Heat let him go, while there is no risk that they would ever move on from Lebron. So Lebron opts out to get more years while Wade opts in to see out his deal.

I agree with Moses that Bosh leaving is the scenario that makes the most sense to me. I obviously don't know him, and he could be perfectly content in his current role. But it would be very much within the personality of a typical elite athlete to want to prove to the world (and himself) that he was capable of leading a team again.
   133. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 06, 2014 at 05:22 PM (#4652810)
If I'm Lebron, I stay with the Heat because it's my best chance to keep going to the NBA finals. In the East, they are competing with Indy, who have a great and young team. But what else? How long will it take for another East team to rise to contender level? What teams have enough young talent to conceivably make the rise within the next 3-4 years, Washington? Toronto?

Hey now, if Rose were to ever stay healthy, the Bulls would be well ahead of Toronto and Washington.
   134. cmd600 Posted: February 06, 2014 at 05:25 PM (#4652813)
f they weren't in win now mode, they might not have spent all that money on Jarret Jack, probably would not have drafted Bennett over Noel and may not have taken Waiters over Drummond


I wish, on all three, but find them to be unlikely. Grant and Byron Scott were both big Waiters fans. Grant also liked Bennett, not sure about Brown. Neither were picked to win now, but because the Cavs had decided they were the best player available. And while I wasn't a fan of spending so many years on an aging Jack, they needed a backup PG, and Jack had looked decent playing with Curry, so I can figure they imagined the same thing when he was next to Irving.

The Cavs are going to be screwed up as long as Gilbert is there demanding to win now, and placating Irving the exact same way he placated Lebron, but a lot of the current talent (or rather lack thereof) is on Grant's drafting. He was a huge fan of Thompson, Waiters, and Bennett. Meanwhile this Cavs fan wanted Jonas, Drummond and Oladipo.
   135. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 06, 2014 at 05:26 PM (#4652815)
not gonna be that guy, but the sixers have enough caproom to sign lebron and carmelo outright and without completely blowing up the rest of their roster or losing every draft pick they'll have in the next 10 years.

MCW
wiggins
lebron
carmelo
noel

wroten // thad // cauley-stein

   136. jmurph Posted: February 06, 2014 at 05:30 PM (#4652818)
That would actually be pretty entertaining: Lebron going full point forward while Carmelo does the bulk of the scoring. A waste of his talents, but still entertaining.
   137. Random Transaction Generator Posted: February 06, 2014 at 05:35 PM (#4652826)
not gonna be that guy, but the sixers have enough caproom to sign lebron and carmelo outright and without completely blowing up the rest of their roster or losing every draft pick they'll have in the next 10 years.

I know a way we can get Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey Jr. and we won't have to give up that much. -George Costanza


   138. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 06, 2014 at 06:19 PM (#4652866)
Rumors for dunk contest: Paul George, John Wall, Damian Lillard, Terrence Ross, Harrison Barnes and Ben McLemore.

CSNNW.com reported Wednesday that Lillard has also been asked to compete in the 3-point contest. If Lillard accepts, he'll become the first player in All-Star Weekend history to compete in all five events. Lillard is already committed to Friday night's rookie/sophomore game and Saturday night's skills challenge in addition to the dunk contest, and Sunday's All-Star Game.


The Blazers might want to tell him to take it easy...
   139. andrewberg Posted: February 06, 2014 at 06:31 PM (#4652870)
I think it's really cool for Lillard to do all of that stuff. How tired are the contests really going to make him? It has to be cumulatively less effort than one game.
   140. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 06, 2014 at 06:31 PM (#4652871)
Why would Bosh opt out? He seems much more comfortable in Miami than he did in Toronto. He was in an alpha dog position, failed, and found a home -- now he's older and his primary option game has presumably atrophied. Maybe it's too much psychoanalysis but I don't see him wanting to strike out on his own again.
   141. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 06, 2014 at 07:04 PM (#4652893)
I think it's really cool for Lillard to do all of that stuff. How tired are the contests really going to make him? It has to be cumulatively less effort than one game.

Oh, I think it's cool, too. It's just a lot on his plate, plus they're quite competitive this season. I don't know that it's simply a rest thing or a increased chance of injury in things that don't matter (though when's the last time anyone got hurt during AS weekend - Kobe's nose?), but I seem to remember thinking team didn't want people doing too much. I may be misremembering.
   142. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 06, 2014 at 07:13 PM (#4652902)
Why would Bosh opt out? He seems much more comfortable in Miami than he did in Toronto. He was in an alpha dog position, failed, and found a home -- now he's older and his primary option game has presumably atrophied. Maybe it's too much psychoanalysis but I don't see him wanting to strike out on his own again.

Yes, its psychoanalysis to think that, but it's also psychoanalysis to think he'll leave*. He's still in his prime, he's got rings, now he can see if he can do it on his own. How much of Toronto is a failure on him vs a failure of the team to build around him? And if people really think that about him, is it really a stretch to think he'd want to prove them wrong? The number of 2 1/2 men, etc jokes he's heard over the years might be more than enough to make him want to prove people wrong.

There's one thing that consistently surprises me about fans talking about pro athletes (and coaches**) is this. How many times have we seen someone overestimate themselves and their ability instead of accept they're just a complimentary piece? On the other hand, look at the crap LBJ took for signing with Wade in the first place. It should just never be a surprise to us when a player chooses to act differently than expected, or how we think we'd act in that situation. Regardless of his decision, I'm sure someone will criticize him for it (and I'm not saying you're doing that, I just want off an a mini-rant here).

*And for the record, I also think he'll stay. I just think of the 3, he's the one most likely to leave. He'll opt out, but only to get a bigger/longer deal.
**Pete Carroll is the most recent example of this (although the NCAA regulations may have also had something to do with him going back to the NFL).
   143. RollingWave Posted: February 06, 2014 at 08:56 PM (#4652962)
I'd say the Cavs fans should just demand Gilbert to sell the team, though for a smaller team like that the risk is always that it'll end up being to another city.

Yeah, Grant's drafting been atrocious, and perhaps more so that the player development is messed up, every random PG still goes off on Irving and he's regressing offensively, Thompson and Waiter's development have been limited, etc...

That whole Gilbert remark on how the Cavs would win a chip before Lebron now look like epic tragedy / comedy.
   144. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 06, 2014 at 10:49 PM (#4652989)
Moses/142 - It's hard to do big things unless you think you can do big things. These guys have already done big things, so what's another step up the ladder of success?
   145. robinred Posted: February 06, 2014 at 11:28 PM (#4653007)
While I obviously have no idea what is their minds, I will be surprised if any of those guys leaves Miami. I think it would take a really bad/frustrating loss to the Pacers, some kind of blow-up between Wade and James, and Riley deciding to retire. Short of all three happening, I think they will all be back in Miami next year. Presumably, they trust Riley and Spoelstra, they are actually friends off the court, and in James' case (and what he wants to do is obviously the main issue) simply staying put would be the best thing for his public image, which has re-stabilized since LeDecision.
   146. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 07, 2014 at 05:11 AM (#4653044)
*And for the record, I also think he'll stay. I just think of the 3, he's the one most likely to leave. He'll opt out, but only to get a bigger/longer deal.


Is Bosh getting the max at this point? Maybe so, I have no idea, but I feel like on the one (boxscore) hand he's a 16 and 7 guy with bad defense and on the other (advanced analytic) hand his efficiency numbers are probably a function of LeBron's creating. Maybe he gets the max, it's true that he's not that different a player than he was 4 years ago, but that max contract now takes you into some scary ages.
   147. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 07, 2014 at 07:29 AM (#4653052)
but I feel like on the one (boxscore) hand he's a 16 and 7 guy with bad defense and on the other (advanced analytic) hand his efficiency numbers are probably a function of LeBron's creating

You think Bosh is a bad defender?

With respect to efficiency Bosh is currently posting a 60.4% TS with 20.2 USG. His last 3 years in TOR those numbers were 58.8/25.1, 56.9/24.1, and 59.2/25.9. I am confident that if he left, his FG% might go down but he would be getting to the line a lot more. In addition...maybe playing closer to the basket for another team would help the FG% some as well and make up for missed spot up opportunities.

As I'm typing this it occurs to me that Bosh would be a fantastic fit in HOU. Would it be possible for him to orchestrate a sign and trade to get there where HOU gives up something like...Asik and Jones?
   148. AROM Posted: February 07, 2014 at 10:22 AM (#4653103)
Talking about it doesn't mean they all make the same decision. It could be best for Wade to opt-in to avoid the risk that the Heat let him go, while there is no risk that they would ever move on from Lebron. So Lebron opts out to get more years while Wade opts in to see out his deal.


Oh yeah, that's possible. What I think is not possible is for Lebron and Bosh to opt in, while Wade opts out, and then acts surprised and tricked. Only way Wade is opting out is if they all are, and Miami decides to break up the team and start over.

Bosh is a pretty good defender against 90% of the league. He's one of the quickest big men in the game and that's real important in today's NBA (though it's always been important). His only problem on D is matching up with someone the size of Hibbert. Luckily for him, there's only one guy that size who has any playing skill. Not so lucky for him, the road to the finals leads straight into Hibbert's house.
   149. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 07, 2014 at 01:09 PM (#4653230)
Is Bosh getting the max at this point?

Yes. Without a doubt.
   150. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2014 at 01:27 PM (#4653247)
Speaking of good fits, Moses: Bosh in place of Boozer?
   151. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 07, 2014 at 01:36 PM (#4653251)
Yes, he'd be a better fit. But I don't know that I want the Bulls to try and sign him though. I really want to see what Mirotic can do. The Bulls would have to trade Gibson to get Bosh (either in the S&T or to clear the space), and I think Gibson+Mirotic might be better than Bosh (while also being cheaper); plus the Bulls could do something about the other starting wing spot. If it turns out that Mirotic is just a really good reserve, this might look silly.
   152. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 07, 2014 at 05:17 PM (#4653393)
I happy to see that Anthony Davis is the pick to replace Kobe on the West AS team.
   153. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 07, 2014 at 11:12 PM (#4653528)
Player A: 44.4 2FG% 32.2 3FG% 77.7 FT% .358 FTR 9.4 TRB% 13.8 AST% 1.7 STL% 12.7 TOV%
Player B: 43.8 2FG% 29.0 3FG% 75.4 FT% .308 FTR 7.6 TRB% 27.8 AST% 2.2 BLK% 13.9 TOV%

Players are the same age, play the same position. Player B is an inch taller and a better athlete. Who do you take and what is your thinking?
   154. robinred Posted: February 08, 2014 at 12:45 AM (#4653555)
Very nice night for Steve Nash on his 40th birthday. Probably hurts the Lakers and came against a very weak opponent, but I am happy for Nash anyway.
   155. cmd600 Posted: February 08, 2014 at 11:03 PM (#4653746)
143 - Sadly, most Cavs fans still love Gilbert for the comment, and are only just starting to come around on how hes absolutely full of ####. Hes not just a bad owner but hes generally a scummy person (not that should surprise anyone about an owner who made money the way he did).
   156. King Mekong Posted: February 08, 2014 at 11:08 PM (#4653747)
153 - How old are they? If under 25 I'd take B because you would expect the better athlete to age better. Otherwise I'd take A because he gets buckets!
   157. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 08, 2014 at 11:56 PM (#4653753)
Golden State is THIRD in defensive efficiency?
   158. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 12:04 AM (#4653756)
[156] They're 20.
   159. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 09, 2014 at 12:16 AM (#4653757)
I think I'd go for player B as I'd rather take the chance on the better athlete catching up on scoring, especially one who is also the better passer.
   160. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 09, 2014 at 12:17 AM (#4653758)
And the Jazz beat Miami with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh all playing. This has been one weird season.
   161. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 09, 2014 at 12:41 AM (#4653761)
Goran Dragic quietly is having a great season.
   162. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 09, 2014 at 12:50 AM (#4653764)
And the Jazz beat Miami with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh all playing. This has been one weird season.
That should never happen. Mark me down as changing my prediction from Miami to Indiana for Eastern Conference Champ.
   163. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 12:53 AM (#4653766)
Goran Dragic quietly is having a great season.

I don't think it's quiet at all. Huge year.
   164. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 09, 2014 at 01:01 AM (#4653769)
Marcus Smart delivered a two-handed shove to a middle-aged man in the 3rd row with 6 seconds left in a loss to Texas Tech. He only picked up a T rather than an ejection at the time, but I'm guessing he'll be suspended for their next game.
   165. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 09, 2014 at 01:15 AM (#4653770)
[156] They're 20.


Hmm, I could have sworn player B was Michael Carter-Williams.
   166. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 09, 2014 at 01:27 AM (#4653772)
Marcus Smart delivered a two-handed shove to a middle-aged man in the 3rd row with 6 seconds left in a loss to Texas Tech. He only picked up a T rather than an ejection at the time, but I'm guessing he'll be suspended for their next game.
suspended by who? i don't think the NCAA does that kind of thing for that kind of incident.

also, i'm about 99% sure that the fan deserved it.
   167. robinred Posted: February 09, 2014 at 01:29 AM (#4653773)
I saw the second half of the Miami-Utah game. James didn't play well at all, and the Heat looked old, mentally tired, and thin--like a version of their team that is going to lose to Indiana would look. How much of that is just the fact that they are at a point such that nothing is really going to be a significant and meaningful challenge for them until the ECF and how much of that is history and age working against them remains to be seen. But, as noted many times, going to four straight Finals is very hard--it has only been done once since the merger, by the 1984-87 Celtics (the 1994 Bulls probably would have made it had Jordan kept playing). Wade is 32, Allen is 38, and Battier and Andersen are both 35. Oden did look fairly spry in very limited minutes, and that may wind up being a shrewd move when the money games get here.

As to Utah, they played well but still needed several huge perimeter shots to pull it off, getting a miracle 3 from Marvin Williams and clutch 2 from Trey Burke late. Kanter and Favors both played pretty well; (Miami is soft around the basket) but the problem is that they can't seem to really play together much, at least not yet. I like both of them but neither is the kind of quick, rangy big that the other needs.
   168. robinred Posted: February 09, 2014 at 03:40 AM (#4653789)
Tweet about the TTU fan:

Doug Gottlieb ? @GottliebShow
Follow
Jeff Orr to a #TexasTech friend of mine via text “I kinda let my mouth say something I shouldn’t have,I feel bad” #MarcusSmart


If you try to get Smart, you lose control and create chaos, I guess.
   169. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 07:43 AM (#4653796)
For the record, Player A is Carmelo and B is LeBron. I always kind of thought Carmelo probably had a better argument for ROTY, but this was the first time I really went back and looked at it. Of course you expect the more athletic guy to have the higher ceiling, but it's not as if Melo was a slouch hitting above his tools in terms of predraft/amateur hype, and now they're worlds apart. Will be interesting to see if the same or similar happens with Jabari Parker and Wiggins.
   170. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 09, 2014 at 11:04 AM (#4653807)
To be fair, lbj is 7 months younger than Carmelo - bbref calls James 19 as a rookie - and lacked college experience.
   171. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 11:27 AM (#4653813)
Tossing in Durant

C. Anthony: 44.4 2FG% 32.2 3FG% 77.7 FT% .358 FTR 9.4 TRB% 13.8 AST% 1.7 STL% 12.7 TOV%
L. James: 43.8 2FG% 29.0 3FG% 75.4 FT% .308 FTR 7.6 TRB% 27.8 AST% 2.2 BLK% 13.9 TOV%
K. Durant: 45.5 2FG% 28.8 3FG% 87.3 FT% .328 FTR 6.9 TRB% 12.0 AST% 1.9 BLK% 12.9 TOV%

I don't really have a point with all of this, just thinking out loud/looking back.

[170] Fair points. Now, Durant was basically between the two "season age" wise and didn't have the LeBron hype, but I can't remember whether the pre-draft word on him exceeded, was less than, or was comparable to Carmelo (in a world where LeBron...and Darko...didn't exist). Because Durant has the 1 year college "advantage" like Carmelo did and while he had the freakish length he wasn't regarded as the overall physical specimen of a LeBron. Carmelo's rookie year looks better. I think it's closer than something like PER indicates, but Carmelo still "wins," but then Durant goes on to become a far greater pro. I suppose the FT% was telling in that regard.
   172. outl13r Posted: February 09, 2014 at 12:49 PM (#4653837)
That should never happen. Mark me down as changing my prediction from Miami to Indiana for Eastern Conference Champ.



Never ever.
   173. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 01:15 PM (#4653845)
[172] "Ever" was the game where LeBron choked and would never win a championship because he has no killer instinct because he passed to Udonis Haslem and he missed a jumper, right?
   174. outl13r Posted: February 09, 2014 at 01:18 PM (#4653847)
173 - Yes.
   175. robinred Posted: February 09, 2014 at 01:27 PM (#4653850)
“It feels amazing,” Nash said postgame. “It’s been a tough run for me in L.A. I’ve just never been healthy and I’ve put so much time in trying to repay the Lakers for bringing me in and the fans for being patient. Just to be able to move freely the last two games (at Minnesota, at Philly) has been a lot of fun for me and made it all worth it.”


In the Lakerland blogosphere, of course, there have been endless posts saying that Nash should retire, etc. Nash almost certainly gets this, even though I am 99.9% sure that he doesn't read stuff in the Lakerland blogosphere. But Nash has never been the kind of guy who talks about stuff like that in public. Even though the whole thing has been a disaster and the team really sucks, he has indeed looked happy to be out there playing more or less like Steve Nash again the last couple of games.
   176. robinred Posted: February 09, 2014 at 01:39 PM (#4653859)
I assume that 162 was referring more to the quality of the current Jazz team (although they have been decent after the dreadful start, one of the few things that I actually predicted correctly) than some inherent lame Jazziness that makes losing to them, particularly on the road, a mark of failure. The records of the two Jazz teams that appear in the links to the box scores of wins over Miami were 21-19 and 17-18.
   177. Booey Posted: February 09, 2014 at 01:47 PM (#4653862)
#172 - I noticed that as well. This was actually the 3rd straight year the Jazz beat Miami in Utah*, and the Heat went on to win the title each of the previous two, so maybe this is actually a GOOD sign for the Heat's chances!

*though to be fair the Jazz were much better in 2012 and 2013 than they are this year

Edit: coke to RR
   178. Every Inge Counts Posted: February 09, 2014 at 01:49 PM (#4653864)
Pistons supposedly fire Mo Cheeks. This is clearly the change that they need.
   179. outl13r Posted: February 09, 2014 at 02:59 PM (#4653893)
rr - I agree with everything in 167/176. I was pointing out that losing when 2000+ miles from home and 4400' above sea level isn't that crazy and has actually happened 3 years in a row now. The Heat don't have anything to play for right now so this loss shouldn't be a shock. What is a shock [to me at least], is that thru 49 games the Heat have the same record as they did last year. Game 49 last year was game 6 of the winning streak.

Hell, even really, really, ridiculously good playing teams can lose to bad teams at altitude. This is in no way meant to be a real comparison, just a coincidence. Clearly, the teams in this link are much better than their last night counterparts.
   180. puck Posted: February 09, 2014 at 03:16 PM (#4653900)
also, i'm about 99% sure that the fan deserved it.


Does that ever matter?

Doug Gottlieb ? @GottliebShow
Follow
Jeff Orr to a #TexasTech friend of mine via text “I kinda let my mouth say something I shouldn’t have,I feel bad” #MarcusSmart


He should feel bad if he heckles college kids.

"Go back to _ _ _ "? (Link.) Need the bad lip reading people to supply some answers. I hope it's not what everyone's assuming, though then you could see why Smart would react thusly.
   181. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 09, 2014 at 03:44 PM (#4653911)
   182. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 09, 2014 at 04:34 PM (#4653921)
Durant since Westbrook went out: 34.7/7.2/6.4, 53% FG, 41% 3P, 87% FT.
   183. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 04:46 PM (#4653922)
[182] Yeah, was just checking that out. I feel fairly confident that Durant has grabbed the Best Player Alive torch from LeBron.

M. Jordan '86-'93, D. Robinson '93-'96, M. Jordan '96-'97, S. O'Neal '97-'03, T. Duncan '03-'07, L. James '07-'13, K. Durant '13-?

   184. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 09, 2014 at 05:23 PM (#4653930)
Does that ever matter?
generally, anytime a fan is "attacked" by a player, i'm about 99% sure the fan deserved it before having any knowledge of what was said/done. fans are ########, and anytime one of them gets hit, i mostly consider that karma for the millions that deserve to but don't.

all smart did was give the guy an off-balanced shove to the chest. that's really less than nothing, imo.
[182] Yeah, was just checking that out. I feel fairly confident that Durant has grabbed the Best Player Alive torch from LeBron.

M. Jordan '86-'93, D. Robinson '93-'96, M. Jordan '96-'97, S. O'Neal '97-'03, T. Duncan '03-'07, L. James '07-'13, K. Durant '13-?
i don't think duncan was ever the best player alive. i think mcgrady/kobe/dirk/wade/garnett were all ahead of him at various times from 03-07 from an individual perspective.


also, for as historically awesome as durant is playing this year, lebron has managed to actually be a more efficient scorer than him, which is really pretty mind-bottling.
   185. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 05:41 PM (#4653936)
I think LeBron really needs this 3peat to secure his legacy amongst the masses. Without it, that loss in '11 may end up being the difference between what the numbers say he is and what conventional wisdom says he is.
   186. puck Posted: February 09, 2014 at 05:56 PM (#4653940)
generally, anytime a fan is "attacked" by a player, i'm about 99% sure the fan deserved it before having any knowledge of what was said/done. fans are ########, and anytime one of them gets hit, i mostly consider that karma for the millions that deserve to but don't.

all smart did was give the guy an off-balanced shove to the chest. that's really less than nothing, imo.


Right and I agree with you. However, if Smart were playing for a pro team, his actions would put him in line for a suspension, regardless of how much of an ass the fan was.
   187. tshipman Posted: February 09, 2014 at 06:20 PM (#4653950)
i don't think duncan was ever the best player alive. i think mcgrady/kobe/dirk/wade/garnett were all ahead of him at various times from 03-07 from an individual perspective.


Yeah, it's pretty highly debateable that Duncan was even the best power forward from 2003-2007.

Edit: again, I feel like Duncan gets highly overrated. He's never led the league in WS/48 or PER. His best argument is that we're probably not that accurate at evaluating team defense, and he won 4 rings. The counter to that would be that those teams were fairly stacked with a high level of talent.
   188. kpelton Posted: February 09, 2014 at 06:32 PM (#4653951)
But he did lead the league in Win Shares twice. I guess whether you feel he grabbed the "best player alive" title from Shaq depends how important you consider durability/reliability.
   189. JuanGone..except1game Posted: February 09, 2014 at 06:52 PM (#4653955)
Right and I agree with you. However, if Smart were playing for a pro team, his actions would put him in line for a suspension, regardless of how much of an ass the fan was.

Getting on my high horse, this is exactly why I can't stand people making the silly student-athlete arguments. They want to treat them like kids except when they don't. We've got some old man being a complete ####### to someone more than half his age, and your still going to see some people defend this type of fan behavior and say that Marcus should have just moved on. As Det. Murtaugh might say, "I ain't paid enough for this ####."
   190. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 09, 2014 at 07:19 PM (#4653961)
3 game suspension for Marcus Smart.
   191. robinred Posted: February 09, 2014 at 07:28 PM (#4653964)
Nash left with nerve irritation flare up...
   192. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 09, 2014 at 08:18 PM (#4653970)
all smart did was give the guy an off-balanced shove to the chest. that's really less than nothing, imo.

there is not a business in the world where you can lay your hands on the customers and not face consequences barring being assaulted by said customer.

this was not such a case. hence, the player needs to be punished

this is not difficult to understand and frankly I am surprised anyone thinks/believes/suggests otherwise
   193. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 09, 2014 at 09:06 PM (#4653977)
there is not a business in the world where you can lay your hands on the customers and not face consequences barring being assaulted by said customer.

this was not such a case. hence, the player needs to be punished

this is not difficult to understand and frankly I am surprised anyone thinks/believes/suggests otherwise
why don't we wait for the guy to show up at a press conference with a neck brace, some crutches and a trial lawyer before we start talking about "consequences" for 'assaulting' paying customers.

   194. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 09, 2014 at 09:26 PM (#4653981)
M. Jordan '86-'93, D. Robinson '93-'96, M. Jordan '96-'97, S. O'Neal '97-'03, T. Duncan '03-'07, L. James '07-'13, K. Durant '13-?

You misspelled Hakeem Olajuwon's name.
   195. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 09, 2014 at 09:28 PM (#4653982)
why don't we wait for the guy to show up at a press conference with a neck brace, some crutches and a trial lawyer before we start talking about "consequences" for 'assaulting' paying customers.

whatever the guy in the stands 'said' a player cannot lay his hands on the fans.

sorry. but it can't happen.

nor can the fan go after the player if that further clarifies.

there has to be an invisible wall between the two parties

if you refuse to accept that premise you are opening the door for chaos
   196. Booey Posted: February 09, 2014 at 09:47 PM (#4653988)
i don't think duncan was ever the best player alive. i think mcgrady/kobe/dirk/wade/garnett were all ahead of him at various times from 03-07 from an individual perspective.


I don't think any of these players except maybe KG ever had a good argument over Timmy. Maaaybe for an individual season. Not for even a brief stretch of seasons, though.
   197. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 10:22 PM (#4653998)
I don't think any of these players except maybe KG ever had a good argument over Timmy. Maaaybe for an individual season. Not for even a brief stretch of seasons, though.

Yeah, KG was the only one I really considered. And I was looking at it not as an individual season thing but more so a rolling basis.
   198. PJ Martinez Posted: February 09, 2014 at 10:27 PM (#4654000)
Every time I see Kirk Hinrich I think he is wearing Google Glass.
   199. King Mekong Posted: February 09, 2014 at 10:41 PM (#4654002)
Duncan's 2nd championship team was not stacked. (2nd best player was a last legged David Robinson) http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html
   200. robinred Posted: February 09, 2014 at 11:17 PM (#4654011)
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