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Saturday, February 01, 2014

OT: NBA February 2014

In total, 14 former Lakers are under contract with other teams—more if training camp invites and traded draft picks are included:
Charlotte Bobcats: Ramon Sessions, Josh McRoberts, Jannero Pargo and Chris Douglas-Roberts (training camp invite)
Cleveland Cavaliers: Earl Clark
Clippers: Matt Barnes, Antawn Jamison
Houston Rockets: Dwight Howard, Patrick Beverley (drafted 42nd overall in 2009, traded immediately to the Miami Heat)
Indiana Pacers: Andrew Bynum
Miami Heat: Toney Douglas (drafted 29th overall in 2009, traded immediately to the New York Knicks)
Milwaukee Bucks: Caron Butler
Minnesota Timberwolves: Ronny Turiaf
New York Knicks: Metta World Peace
Oklahoma City Thunder: Derek Fisher
Phoenix Suns: Gerald Green (training camp invite)
San Antonio Spurs: Shannon Brown
Utah Jazz: Malcolm Thomas (training camp invite)
Washington Wizards: Trevor Ariza

Bitter Mouse Posted: February 01, 2014 at 04:05 PM | 740 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba

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   201. rr Posted: February 09, 2014 at 11:18 PM (#4654012)
The score in the PHI @ LAC game at the moment is 54-17 Clippers with 9 minutes left in the half.
   202. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 11:29 PM (#4654017)

this is not difficult to understand and frankly I am surprised anyone thinks/believes/suggests otherwise


I find myself agreeing with Harv here. I'm kinda irked at how many people are defending Smart who I feel would otherwise condemn violence (not the most pain-inflicting violence in the world, sure, but still assault) in retaliation to what, an insult? Its unacceptable behavior. He's half the guy's age, but he should still be mature enough to understand that, and if not, then a 3 game suspension is a good way to teach that lesson.

Its also awful that the internet has taken off with the racial comments (that don't appear to have been said) based on a faulty tweet from a Kansas City-area news station.
   203. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 11:45 PM (#4654021)
I think a suspension is justified, but I also don't care about what Smart did. It doesn't anger/upset me in any way.
   204. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 11:47 PM (#4654023)
   205. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 09, 2014 at 11:57 PM (#4654027)

I think a suspension is justified, but I also don't care about what Smart did. It doesn't anger/upset me in any way.


Agreed. He's a kid that lost his cool when a guy acted like a jerk. I don't know why we have to make this a morality play about racism or thugs or whatever.
   206. rr Posted: February 10, 2014 at 12:10 AM (#4654029)
It is now 89-33. The 76ers are 9/60 from the floor.
   207. rr Posted: February 10, 2014 at 12:15 AM (#4654031)
9-0 Philly since then.
   208. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:03 AM (#4654039)
Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread but I just want to say that it is ridiculous that the Pistons fired Maurice Cheeks. It's not so much that they fired him after 50 games but that Dumars has now fired 8 coaches in 14 years. I know they won a championship with Larry Brown as their coach but I honestly think that firing Rick Carlisle was the worst thing that could have happened to Dumars.
   209. stevegamer Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:07 AM (#4654066)
Post #168 didn't get enough love. I'd rate it a 99 out of 100.

STEAGLES is absolutely wrong about Smart - suspension 100% of the time. It's not like he waded into the stands and started a brawl, but fans are customers, and you just have to deal with it.

76ers game was basically unlistenable - screw unwatchable. I'm hoping Hawes & Thad get to move on to decent teams at the deadline for their sakes. I hope I'm not saying this about Carter-Williams in a few years.

   210. rr Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:54 AM (#4654068)
I'd rate it a 99 out of 100.


Nice.

The problem with 168 is that I was in The Cone of Silence when I posted it.
   211. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 10, 2014 at 06:47 AM (#4654074)
My problem with the "fans are customers" line of thinking here is that NCAA players both aren't getting payed and have no grievance process in any way against a fan, no matter what lines a fan crosses. I have no idea what exactly Orr did, but I have to imagine it is well over the lines of propriety for Smart to shove him, and in that case I really have no problem with the shove. Violence that injured Orr would be another matter, but this is not that, so I really have no problem with it. My bias here, I suppose, is that fans seem to often take their ticket as carte blanche to verbally abuse opposing players, and I don't really have any issue with a 19 year-old who isn't getting payed to be there taking umbrage with that fact, especially if a racial slur was involved, as I have seen suggested though not proven. Orr acted like an ass, he got shoved for it, and that seems fair to me. Depending on what Orr said, maybe even getting off lightly. I see no real reason to damn Smart here, although he did himself no favors.
   212. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 10, 2014 at 11:23 AM (#4654159)
Going back some...

C. Anthony: 44.4 2FG% 32.2 3FG% 77.7 FT% .358 FTR 9.4 TRB% 13.8 AST% 1.7 STL% 12.7 TOV%
L. James: 43.8 2FG% 29.0 3FG% 75.4 FT% .308 FTR 7.6 TRB% 27.8 AST% 2.2 BLK% 13.9 TOV%
K. Durant: 45.5 2FG% 28.8 3FG% 87.3 FT% .328 FTR 6.9 TRB% 12.0 AST% 1.9 BLK% 12.9 TOV%

I don't really have a point with all of this, just thinking out loud/looking back.

[170] Fair points. Now, Durant was basically between the two "season age" wise and didn't have the LeBron hype, but I can't remember whether the pre-draft word on him exceeded, was less than, or was comparable to Carmelo (in a world where LeBron...and Darko...didn't exist). Because Durant has the 1 year college "advantage" like Carmelo did and while he had the freakish length he wasn't regarded as the overall physical specimen of a LeBron. Carmelo's rookie year looks better. I think it's closer than something like PER indicates, but Carmelo still "wins," but then Durant goes on to become a far greater pro. I suppose the FT% was telling in that regard.


It really is amazing how close most of those numbers are. IMO though, the biggest difference (ignoring defense, since we don't see it in those stats) is the assist rate, which implies a better playmaker. So if they're scoring at the same general rate, I'll always take the guy who's also a facilitator (also, especially since the TO rate isn't much greater than the other guys while apparently handling the ball a lot more).
   213. bunyon Posted: February 10, 2014 at 11:30 AM (#4654160)
I agree completely with 211. Without knowing for sure what Orr said, I think the suspension is fine. There are some things he could have said that would make me think a suspension is too much punishment.
   214. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 10, 2014 at 11:35 AM (#4654162)
My problem with the "fans are customers" line of thinking here is that NCAA players both aren't getting payed and have no grievance process in any way against a fan, no matter what lines a fan crosses.

I sort of agree, but I don't know that it's totally relevant to the discussion to bring in the "student-athlete" discussion. I have no problem with the school/team suspending him, but find it a little odd the suspension actually came from the conference. But I also agree with Harveys point - he earned that suspension.

Yet, at the same time, I do sort of agree with steagles and your point about the fans, especially considering that fan's history with other players and the fact that he's a known instigator. The school should do more than just accept a "I won't come to any more games this year" faux-apology. They should take his tickets away - or because he clearly is somewhat of a big-whig donor and the school would never actually do that, move him somewhere we there's no chance of future interactions with players.
   215. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 10, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4654165)
Sixers-Clippers in one Vine.

Fantastic.
   216. kpelton Posted: February 10, 2014 at 12:22 PM (#4654200)
"there is not a business in the world where you can lay your hands on the customers and not face consequences barring being assaulted by said customer."

How many businesses are there where "customers" are allowed to scream obscenities at "employees" from point-blank range?
   217. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 10, 2014 at 12:23 PM (#4654202)
Evan Turner's plus-minus was -43. The amazing thing is, that's only the 16th worst since 2000.
   218. Booey Posted: February 10, 2014 at 12:33 PM (#4654215)
How many businesses are there where "customers" are allowed to scream obscenities at "employees" from point-blank range?


This. I'm fine with the suspension, but really, in pretty much any other profession a customer who acted like this would've been escorted off the premises well before the altercation got physical.
   219. AROM Posted: February 10, 2014 at 12:36 PM (#4654218)
How many businesses are there where "customers" are allowed to scream obscenities at "employees" from point-blank range?


Car dealerships.

As for point blank range, the player could have walked away. If the fan follows him onto the court, security would have been all over him.

   220. Booey Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:03 PM (#4654250)
I'm kinda middle ground on this. Players need to learn to deal with criticism, so barring a direct physical assault - like say, a fan charging the court/field - an athlete that lays a hand on a fan like this should be suspended, period.

But fans are allowed to get away with way too much d0uchebaggery, IMO. In 99% of these cases, the fans involved could've and should've been ejected well before the incident with the player occured. So it's hard to have any sympathy for an idiot like this. Walk up to a random person on the street and treat them the way this guy treated Smart, and you should consider yourself lucky if a shove is all you get.

The moral, as always: don't be an a$$hole.
   221. jmurph Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:13 PM (#4654268)
In news that will surely shake up the playoff picture, New Orleans is "open to trading" the wildly overpaid Eric Gordon and Tyreke Evans. Who could have predicted that wouldn't have worked out for them?
   222. steagles Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:25 PM (#4654276)
In news that will surely shake up the playoff picture, New Orleans is "open to trading" the wildly overpaid Eric Gordon and Tyreke Evans. Who could have predicted that wouldn't have worked out for them?
tyreke evans for josh smith:
who wins, who loses?
   223. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:38 PM (#4654280)
How many businesses are there where "customers" are allowed to scream obscenities at "employees" from point-blank range?


It depends what you consider "allowed" (I'm going to assume "without being immediately escorted off the premises and/or banned") and if over the phone counts, but cable companies and the post office.
   224. AROM Posted: February 10, 2014 at 01:53 PM (#4654298)
But fans are allowed to get away with way too much d0uchebaggery, IMO. In 99% of these cases, the fans involved could've and should've been ejected well before the incident with the player occured.


Agree 100%. I just saw a clip and have no idea what the fan had been doing/saying leading up to this. But this guy has quite the rep so I'm pretty sure he's no innocent. Baseball does a pretty good job, or at least they are moving in the right direction, of controlling A-hole behavior from obnoxious fans. In Camden Yards I have seen fans ejected who were not violent, but just could not shut up and eventually they crossed the line. No reason you can't do this in college basketball.

Without knowing the details I've seen it written that this fan was a big donor to the program. In other words, a rich obnoxious a-hole. Teams need to sack up and treat fans like this the same way they treat the bleacher riffraff. First of all, allowing this behavior because some guy pays enough money is a horrible example to set period (though par for the course with the NCAA).

But even from a business perspective, One single donor should not matter that much. If he gets mad and decides not to donate any more money, you might be able to make it up from the other rich donors, most of whom get to where they are in life by at least pretending to be polite and civilized, and probably would be grateful not to have to sit next to the a-hole anymore.
   225. bunyon Posted: February 10, 2014 at 02:14 PM (#4654310)
Without knowing the details I've seen it written that this fan was a big donor to the program. In other words, a rich obnoxious a-hole. Teams need to sack up and treat fans like this the same way they treat the bleacher riffraff. First of all, allowing this behavior because some guy pays enough money is a horrible example to set period (though par for the course with the NCAA).

He is but he was also sitting/standing amidst a bunch of other rich, obnoxious a-holes. My guess is there aren't many professional arenas in which the kind of behavior that routinely goes on in college arenas is tolerated.

An interesting interview, if you could get them to talk, would be with the Texas Tech players.

I guess my feeling is, yes, of course Smart should be suspended. You can't let the players think they can respond that way. But is he a bad guy? It depends on the provocation, IMO. If the guy really did call him an n-word (what a phrase), then even while I think Smart should be suspended, I might actually think more of him. People shouldn't have to take that kind of ####. A whole lot of other verbal abuse is in that same category.
   226. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 02:24 PM (#4654316)
Teams need to sack up and treat fans like this the same way they treat the bleacher riffraff. First of all, allowing this behavior because some guy pays enough money is a horrible example to set period (though par for the course with the NCAA).


What behavior, specifically, are they allowing? What should the university have done? What should university policies be? Anyone that says something objectionable to a player is tossed for a game? The whole season? What is considered objectionable?
   227. Manny Coon Posted: February 10, 2014 at 02:37 PM (#4654323)
On the young Melo, Lebron, Durant stats thing, Lebron clearly stands out because of the assist rate and that easily makes him the best prospect of the group. The Durant/Melo comparison is more interesting though and shows why Portland wasn't completely crazy draft Oden ahead of Durant, it shows how it was basically impossible to project Durant to be this good; Melo's career is quite good and most teams would love the chance to draft him, but even then he's just so far behind how Durant turned out.
   228. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 10, 2014 at 02:39 PM (#4654325)
What behavior, specifically, are they allowing? What should the university have done? What should university policies be? Anyone that says something objectionable to a player is tossed for a game? The whole season? What is considered objectionable?

Most tickets have general language printed on them about fan behavior. Most stadiums make announcements about things that can get you removed from the game. If anyone complained - or if an usher heard/saw him - they can kick the fan out. I'm sure the players could also point out fans to the officials who pass the word along.

I don't know if anyone can say TT should have done anything differently in this particular instance, but it also doesn't seem like this is the first time TT has heard/seen something about this guy. There was a lot of talk about heat of the moment and players' mentalities after the Richard Sherman NFC Championship game interviews; I think perhaps in another situation Smart could have simply pointed out the guy and that was that.
   229. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 02:41 PM (#4654327)
I agree universities should (and typically do) have policies on things like that, its just a lot harder to enforce. What did the fan say? How do we know he/she said it? What is objectionable? All have pretty gray areas, and there is still a heavy financial incentive to err on the side of the fan.
   230. smileyy Posted: February 10, 2014 at 02:41 PM (#4654328)
I was about to post "How could would Kevin Durant be if he were only 6'8", then I saw that Kevin Durant's "official" height is 6'9". That's so cute.
   231. AROM Posted: February 10, 2014 at 02:47 PM (#4654335)
What behavior, specifically, are they allowing? What should the university have done? What should university policies be? Anyone that says something objectionable to a player is tossed for a game? The whole season? What is considered objectionable?


Toss them for the game. If enforced the way baseball teams enforce it, it's a pretty lenient policy. To get thrown out you have to be really loud, really obnoxious, and really repetitive. The ushers use their discretion. I'm not talking about a guy shouting one insult and then going by whether witnesses report it or not. To get thrown out the fan is really loud and obnoxious. The usher comes over and tells them to tone it done. Most comply. Some keep going, and those are the ones who get thrown out.
   232. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:00 PM (#4654343)
Toss them for the game. If enforced the way baseball teams enforce it, it's a pretty lenient policy


I'm pretty sure that's the policy most places now. I've seen people tossed. Mizzou has banned "The Antlers", a popular student cheering section, several timtes for verbally abusive behavior.

But you have to have an incident first before you toss someone.
   233. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:02 PM (#4654344)
Kevin Durant's "official" height is 6'9".


Kevin Durant has the team list his hight without shoes, which is fairly unusual. He's the same height as Dwight Howard, who's listed at 6'11" but stands 6'9" barefoot. Although Durant's functionally a bit taller than that, given his preposterous reach.
   234. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:02 PM (#4654346)
I was about to post "How could would Kevin Durant be if he were only 6'8", then I saw that Kevin Durant's "official" height is 6'9". That's so cute.

This is one of the most amusing/amazing things about him. Whenever there's a shot of him standing next to Perkins or Ibaka, he is clearly taller than them. To be that tall and able to handle the ball like that is incredible. I know I've said this somewhere before but I laugh when I think about going back in time and telling my 8 year old self that in the future the leading scorer in the league is going to a 7 footer (Ok, like Shaq?) who is a better 3 point shooter than Reggie Miller (Wait, what?) and is his team's primary ballhandler (How much drugs am I going to do in the next two decades?).
   235. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:10 PM (#4654352)
Durant did play out of position his first year (at SG, for which his coach caught a lot of flak).
   236. ASmitty Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:10 PM (#4654353)
This is one of the most amusing/amazing things about him. Whenever there's a shot of him standing next to Perkins or Ibaka, he is clearly taller than them.


On the reverse side, the Pistons used to do lots of bizzare posing in team pictures/posters to try and hide the fact that Ben Wallace was noticeably shorter than Richard Hamilton, much less Tayshaun Prince.
   237. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:16 PM (#4654356)
As far as guys currently in the league, the other one that amuses me is Blake Griffin. Whenever he displays any sort of wing-level ball handling or passing and people react incredulously in the back of my mind I can't help but think "He and LeBron are pretty much the same size." So him doing that isn't any more/less amazing than LeBron doing it...though I guess you could argue it's still amazing for both. Either way, him coming into the league with the PF label etched on has affected the way people view him IMO.
   238. Manny Coon Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:22 PM (#4654361)
Has Durant grown since his draft measurements? He was obviously long to start with (9'2" standing reach, long enough to be a center), but has he gotten bigger like Giannis is doing? Weirdly enough Giannis is also playing SG as a rookie despite his length, but like young Durant he is also very skinny.
   239. ASmitty Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:22 PM (#4654363)
Another LeBron trip down memory lane:

I bought my dad and I tickets to LeBron's first NBA contest, a pre-season game against Detroit. During the pre-game warm-ups, my dad leaned over to me and asked, "so which one's the high school kid?"

He was, and is, just a monster. He looked like a full grown man from day one. And he's filled out since then.
   240. AROM Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:23 PM (#4654367)
On the reverse side, the Pistons used to do lots of bizzare posing in team pictures/posters to try and hide the fact that Ben Wallace was noticeably shorter than Richard Hamilton, much less Tayshaun Prince.


When he had the fro, Ben Wallace was 7 feet tall. He also blocked shots by the hundreds, and consumed his opponents with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.
   241. smileyy Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:27 PM (#4654370)
There's a reasonable chance that Durant and Dwight have both grown a bit since the combine.
   242. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 03:33 PM (#4654379)
I do think Durant grew some since his rookie season. Paul George is another freak in this sense. Sort of a mini Durant. Came into the league ~6'8" and grew 2 inches his rookie year and is now ~6'10".
   243. John M. Perkins Posted: February 10, 2014 at 04:58 PM (#4654420)
Hmm, 17 former Spurs have played in the NBA this year, not counting draftees: Leandro Barbosa, Goran Dragic, John Salmons, and Luis Scola.

Bobcats: Anthony Tolliver
Bucks: Gary Neal
Bulls: Nazr Muhammed
Cavaliers: Alonzo Gee
Celtics: Keith Bogans
Clippers: Stephen Jackson, Hedo Turkoglu
Heat: Roger Mason, Jr.
Jazz: Richard Jefferson, Malcolm Thomas
Knicks: Beno Udrih
Mavericks: DeJuan Blair
Pacers: George Hill, Ian Mahinmi
Raptors: Steve Novak
76ers: James Anderson
Wizards: Garrett Temple

This is not a stellar team.
   244. steagles Posted: February 10, 2014 at 05:30 PM (#4654445)
how was matt barnes never a spur?
   245. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 10, 2014 at 05:33 PM (#4654446)
   246. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 10, 2014 at 07:30 PM (#4654494)
How many businesses are there where "customers" are allowed to scream obscenities at "employees" from point-blank range?

it was answered elsewhere but this happens in conference rooms globally every day. kind of surprised this question was posed

i completely agree that the 'fan' in question was out of line. a jerk. whatever adjective you want to assign it likely fits

but if you don't discipline the player in this situation you are inviting far WORSE down the road. the nba recognized this with the whole piston/pacer debacle.

if you are going to let the fans be that close to the action the onus is on the PLAYER and COACHES to be the grownups. not claiming it's 'fair'. it stinks most likely

if this doesn't work for them then they need to not participate

sorry.
   247. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 10, 2014 at 07:35 PM (#4654498)
Most of us agree with you, Harv.
   248. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: February 10, 2014 at 08:12 PM (#4654512)
I do think Durant grew some since his rookie season.


I'm not sure. I saw Durant play from courtside seats in college, and he was very tall even then, certainly taller than the college "centers".
   249. Manny Coon Posted: February 10, 2014 at 08:30 PM (#4654520)
As far as guys currently in the league, the other one that amuses me is Blake Griffin. Whenever he displays any sort of wing-level ball handling or passing and people react incredulously in the back of my mind I can't help but think "He and LeBron are pretty much the same size." So him doing that isn't any more/less amazing than LeBron doing it...though I guess you could argue it's still amazing for both. Either way, him coming into the league with the PF label etched on has affected the way people view him IMO.


Griffin's ball handling and passing is really good for his size. The fact that Lebron and Durant are good at basically all the same stuff as Griffin (efficient volume scoring, ball handling and passing for their size) but so much better at than Griffin is amazing given that Griffin has probably been one of the best 5-10 players in the league this year. 30 usage and 64% TS and good rebounding, defense and playmaking, those two are insane.
   250. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 10, 2014 at 08:49 PM (#4654526)
Assuming the fan said something over the line (likely), my opinion of Smart is not affected at all and I would not have blamed him for throwing a punch. I still agree with the suspension because no sports leagues can set a precedence of allowing this behavior to go unpunished, and Smart will have to learn to ignore this type of behavior since he will unfortunately likely encounter more fans of this ilk in the NBA.
   251. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 10, 2014 at 08:59 PM (#4654531)
Smart will have to learn to ignore this type of behavior since he will unfortunately likely encounter more fans of this ilk in the NBA.

sad but true
   252. kpelton Posted: February 10, 2014 at 09:06 PM (#4654533)
it was answered elsewhere but this happens in conference rooms globally every day. kind of surprised this question was posed

Those aren't customers in person, and I think the whole employee-customer analogy falls apart pretty quickly. I agree with what others have said that Smart should be punished, but fan conduct is a much bigger issue. It's weird to me that nobody has connected Smart with Oregon players and coaches getting spat on by the Arizona State student section hours earlier.
   253. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 10, 2014 at 09:37 PM (#4654543)
Those aren't customers in person

what? you are unaware that customers meet with those providing them goods/services and act in ridiculous fashion to convey their unhappiness?

I will drop it because you clearly refuse to acknowledge that people act in wildly inappropriate fashion across the economic spectrum
   254. kpelton Posted: February 10, 2014 at 10:28 PM (#4654556)
what? you are unaware that customers meet with those providing them goods/services and act in ridiculous fashion to convey their unhappiness?

I mean sure, but for 40 minutes? Several times a week? I just don't see a comparison.

We tolerate behavior from fans at sporting events we wouldn't elsewhere. I don't think that's a controversial position.
   255. PJ Martinez Posted: February 11, 2014 at 12:41 AM (#4654596)
Reaching back to #222:
tyreke evans for josh smith:
who wins, who loses?
Evans makes less, is significantly younger, and is arguably having the better season. But I still think this might be a good idea for both teams, especially if New Orleans can't move Gordon (and I suspect they can't move Gordon).
   256. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 11, 2014 at 12:45 AM (#4654598)
76ers are down by 30 at halftime again.

I'm starting to think they could successfully get into the lottery even if they took the risk of adding a couple players who aren't bums and no-names.
   257. RollingWave Posted: February 11, 2014 at 03:31 AM (#4654639)
Poor Wolfs, they played under their differential to start the year and now start having injuries. would really suck for this team to not make the playoffs but at this point it's going to be really tough. Portland's obviously in, they need 2 of Grizz / Suns / Mavs to collapse to make it, odds of that happening seems slim.

Also, Rockets quietly starting to creep up, now ahead of the Clippers and might catch the Blazers before the ASG. At this point it seems plausible they even win their division as the Spurs been sucking recently. (for them.)
   258. Bitter Mouse Posted: February 11, 2014 at 09:09 AM (#4654655)
Poor Wolfs, they played under their differential to start the year and now start having injuries. would really suck for this team to not make the playoffs but at this point it's going to be really tough.


Timberwolves, finding yet another way to lose a year. I am starting to think it was not meant to be for this group. Love may well bail, and it would be hard to blame him, and then we are back where we were. Sigh, if only Rubio could shoot.
   259. just plain joe Posted: February 11, 2014 at 09:45 AM (#4654671)
Bulls: Nazr Muhammed


I don't really follow the NBA very much but I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that Mohammed is still getting paid to play basketball. When he left Kentucky I was certain that he would be one of those players who hang around on the end of the bench for 2-3 years and then get booted out into the "real world". Good for him I guess; another example proving the old adage that "you can't teach size".
   260. AROM Posted: February 11, 2014 at 10:12 AM (#4654683)
Poor Wolfs, they played under their differential to start the year and now start having injuries. would really suck for this team to not make the playoffs but at this point it's going to be really tough.


It was shocking to me, given their records, to see that the Wolves have about the same point differential as the Trailblazers.
   261. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM (#4654690)
How many businesses are there where "customers" are allowed to scream obscenities at "employees" from point-blank range?


Pretty much any minimum wage job?
   262. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 11, 2014 at 10:59 AM (#4654714)
When he left Kentucky I was certain that he would be one of those players who hang around on the end of the bench for 2-3 years and then get booted out into the "real world".

I liked him a lot coming out of school, but two years into his pro career it looked as if your projection would come true. He was then legitimately a solid-to-good rotation player for years (posted a PER of 15.8 over the next eleven seasons - thanks to solid rebounding, which he could always do, and decent post play with relatively high usage for a bench guy) and is now skating by on intangibles.
He's largely earned the career he's had.
   263. GregD Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:18 AM (#4654724)
$63 million in salaries. Paying for Antoine Walker's lawyers. Would never have imagined that when they were at UK. Okay, maybe I could possibly have imagined Walker would be so immature as to spend all his money.

What has always impressed me about Nazr from day one at Kentucky is
1) he never does anything except what he's supposed to do
2) he's a very smart player which gets obscured by his physical limitations--his sense of timing in their away victory at Vanderbilt surpassed most guards I've ever seen, and after he seemed baffled by the idea that he used every half-second available to him
3) he seems almost absurdly calm, which is probably related to #2, he may not be any smarter abstractly as a player but he doesn't panic
4) he has always faced his limitations openly and thoughtfully--back to those missed free throws at Kentucky. His father told him that night you cost your team the national championship and he volunteered that story over and over the next year, rather than running from it. And he became a better free throw shooter.
5) I'm sure he has demons (and possibly there are stories out there about him that I don't know) but he has seemed to me to be a widely liked person on every team he has played on--he gets along with the silly guys like Walker, at UK he seemed to get along with Magloire despite Magloire competing against him and seeming like a hothead. People I knew in Chicago who knew him in high school said he was just a great, soft kid who may somehow have toughened up without losing whatever sweetness was there.
   264. just plain joe Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:48 AM (#4654740)
5) I'm sure he has demons (and possibly there are stories out there about him that I don't know) but he has seemed to me to be a widely liked person on every team he has played on--he gets along with the silly guys like Walker, at UK he seemed to get along with Magloire despite Magloire competing against him and seeming like a hothead. People I knew in Chicago who knew him in high school said he was just a great, soft kid who may somehow have toughened up without losing whatever sweetness was there.


Mohammed was well thought of at Kentucky, by his teammates, the fans and by the media as well. I just didn't expect him to have a significant career in the NBA. Good for him that he has been able to adapt and make himself a useful pro player for this long. Also good that no one is relying upon my judgment in regard to player scouting.
   265. Bitter Mouse Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:50 AM (#4654743)
What has always impressed me about Nazr from day one at Kentucky is


So you are saying he is a typical thug? I kid, it is nice someone seems to maximize their opportunity.
   266. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 11, 2014 at 12:58 PM (#4654811)
Mohammed was well thought of at Kentucky, by his teammates, the fans and by the media as well. I just didn't expect him to have a significant career in the NBA.

As a Sixers fan I certainly did not either. Nobody was clear on why the team drafted him. He seemed like the Lavoy Allen of his day, but on a supposedly contending team so he basically didn't play for 2 1/2 years.

Even when Todd McCulloch had one of his constant injuries Mohammed didn't play. Then they traded Ratliff to get Dikembe Mutombo, and included Mohammed in the trade! It was like his only function was as the emergency spare for Theo Ratliff.

Which turned out to be a good thing, since as soon as they joined the Hawks Ratliff got injured, inaugurating the 15-year "Theo Ratliff's Expiring Contract" era.
   267. andrewberg Posted: February 11, 2014 at 01:24 PM (#4654844)
Timberwolves, finding yet another way to lose a year. I am starting to think it was not meant to be for this group. Love may well bail, and it would be hard to blame him, and then we are back where we were. Sigh, if only Rubio could shoot.


It has me down somewhat because I think you're right that this was the chance to break through. The fact that the point differential is there but the record isn't is one of those bad luck things that would be a blip on the radar for the Mavs or Spurs, but blights an entire generation for a moribund franchise. I really don't know what comes next.
   268. Bitter Mouse Posted: February 11, 2014 at 01:54 PM (#4654862)
I really don't know what comes next.


I have given up trying to convince people this is the group. I know there is talent, but the casual fan looks at the standings and then at me like I am a loon. I would look for a new team to cheer for, but last time I did that it was last year in baseball and I picked the Blue Jays - I don't wish a repeat of that on any other franchise.
   269. stevegamer Posted: February 11, 2014 at 03:38 PM (#4654971)
The Mohammed - Allen comparison is interesting to me, because I am still shocked La-Z-Voy is in the NBA and functional.

I thought Mohammed seemed like a reasonable bet to be a long-term reserve when the 76ers drafted him - and sometimes that's much better than you should expect to do at your pick.
   270. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 11, 2014 at 03:56 PM (#4654983)
The Sixers new management is big on getting players to constantly run around and be lean and take biometric tests all the time. Lavoy Allen has lost weight like everyone else on the team, but the announcers still sort of jokingly point out that he is the team fatso.
   271. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 11, 2014 at 04:16 PM (#4655000)
I don't know that this is a legit rumor or not*, but it at least has to be mentioned since we talked about Melo fitting on the Bulls. To avoid clicking, here's the deal:

The report states that the Bulls would be giving up Carlos Boozer, Kirk Hinrich, Tony Snell, Jimmy Butler, and likely a first round pick as well. In return, Chicago would receive Carmelo Anthony, Raymond Felton, and Iman Shumpert.


Reasons why the Bulls would do it - get a superstar, not have to pay Boozer to not play for them, the price isn't that high (Butler's really struggled this year, though he's been playing through multiple injuries). Reasons they wouldn't do it - why trade any assets when Melo is about to be a FA, Felton's contract, Shumpert's not been great, increasing the salary this year, if Melo walks they give up a ton for nothing.

Reasons why the Knicks would do it - if they really think Melo is leaving they get an ok return for him, outside of Boozer no long expensive contracts are coming back, a pick in next years draft (not a great one, mind you), saves money this year. Reasons why the Knicks wouldn't do it - Boozer's contract, Butler doesn't look that great right now**, not replacing Melo's production, selling low on Shumpert.

It's a really mixed bag of a rumor, that I don't know either team would be crazy about. I don't know that the Bulls want to pay Melo what he can get (can they even offer him 5 full years since they've already given that to Rose?), or go that deep into the tax this year. But if they added Melo this way, they could still potentially add Mirotic next year and have a first round pick for depth.

*In fact, I say it's complete horseshit. It puts the Bulls way into the tax this season, while avoiding the tax is far and away their top priority right now.
   272. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 11, 2014 at 04:49 PM (#4655022)
Bulls would do it; sounds like total BS.

Lavoy has already exceeded by expectations for him.
   273. andrewberg Posted: February 11, 2014 at 04:52 PM (#4655024)
If there is one team with substantial money committed to Stoudemire and Bargnani needs, it is a power forward who can't play defense.

As far as anyone can expect anything certain from Rose at this point. a combo of Rose, Melo, and Noah looks quite a bit better than any team those guys have played on before.
   274. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 11, 2014 at 05:01 PM (#4655034)
There was a pretty hilarious response to that rumor over at Knickerblogger:
Can’t be mad at any trade that would allow us to run out a front court of Amar’e, Carlos Boozer and Andrea Bargnani. The East is big, man!

For those of you who are unaware, Woodson spent most of the first part of the season defending his refusal to use the small lineups that the Knicks dominated with last year by saying "The East is big, man"
   275. steagles Posted: February 11, 2014 at 06:00 PM (#4655095)
Which turned out to be a good thing, since as soon as they joined the Hawks Ratliff got injured, inaugurating the 15-year "Theo Ratliff's Expiring Contract" era.
ratliff was actually injured before he was traded, and i seem to remember that the trade happened at the time specifically because the sixers didn't know if he'd be able to get back on the court before the playoffs.
The Mohammed - Allen comparison is interesting to me, because I am still shocked La-Z-Voy is in the NBA and functional.
the real test for lavoy will be this offseason. because his rookie contract was only a 1 year deal (for some unknown and/or idiotic reason) he was able to parlay 7 good playoff games against kevin garnett into 2 more guaranteed years at 3million per. that contract is up this year, and i guess it'll be interesting to see whether anyone else bites on offering him a contract.
   276. smileyy Posted: February 11, 2014 at 06:59 PM (#4655138)

If there is one team with substantial money committed to Stoudemire and Bargnani needs, it is a power forward who can't play defense.


You're looking at it the wrong way. He already fits perfectly into their rotations.
   277. smileyy Posted: February 11, 2014 at 07:00 PM (#4655140)
because his rookie contract was only a 1 year deal (for some unknown and/or idiotic reason)


Second round pick contracts are weeeeeird.
   278. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 11, 2014 at 08:40 PM (#4655181)
"I'm going to be one of the top four that's ever played this game, for sure," LeBron James said in an interview that will air on NBA TV on Monday. "And if they don't want me to have one of those top four spots, they'd better find another spot on that mountain. Somebody's gotta get bumped, but that's not for me to decide. That's for the architects."

I loved this. By the way, James' Top 4 were Jordan, Bird, Magic and Oscar (not necessarily in that order).
   279. theboyqueen Posted: February 11, 2014 at 09:13 PM (#4655198)
I guess he is disqualifying centers, which makes this a much more interesting exercise. I approve.

Jordan and Magic do not get bumped, so it's between Bird and Oscar I guess. I think Oscar gets bumped.
   280. theboyqueen Posted: February 11, 2014 at 09:17 PM (#4655199)
Incidentally, I'm not sure I understand advanced metrics in basketball very well, but why does Chris Paul has a higher career WS/48 than Lebron?

Given how reliably wins seem to follow great basketball players around (in contrast to baseball, obviously), I think there is far more room for subjective factors here.
   281. Spivey Posted: February 11, 2014 at 09:25 PM (#4655203)
Jordan and LeBron are 1/2. Beyond that, it's questionable because I don't think Magic or Bird are better than guys that were or can be considered power forwards - but PF and C has always been a grey area. So if you're saying no big men at all get to be ranked, then I'd put Magic in for sure. Oscar has no chance, and Bird I'd want to think about. There's also Pippen and West. I think Durant takes that spot if he is healthy for most of the next decade though.
   282. Manny Coon Posted: February 11, 2014 at 10:37 PM (#4655231)
Incidentally, I'm not sure I understand advanced metrics in basketball very well, but why does Chris Paul has a higher career WS/48 than Lebron?


Paul was more polished as a rookie, throw out Lebron's rookie year and he's ahead.

Right now Paul is basically the David Robinson of PGs; awesome stats but only moderate team success, a lot of it is on his supporting cast, but he's had some less than great playoff performances as well (but also some very good ones).
   283. steagles Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:07 PM (#4655244)
Report: Bobcats, Spurs among suitors for Evan Turner trade

so, i'm not quite sure how often the smartest organization in the NBA and one of the dumbest organizations in the NBA are both interested in the same player, but i kinda think it means that ET is going to be a bobcat.
   284. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:32 PM (#4655249)
Noah is a top 3 center in the league right now right? Or am I just crazy
   285. Publius Publicola Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:38 PM (#4655252)
Beyond that, it's questionable because I don't think Magic or Bird are better than guys that were or can be considered power forwards


Bird played most of his career as a power forward.
   286. steagles Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:40 PM (#4655254)
Noah is a top 3 center in the league right now right? Or am I just crazy
if he's not, he's close enough for it to be a distinction without a difference.

best centers in no particular order:
davis, howard, hibbert, pekovic, gasol, drummond, cousins, noah.
   287. rr Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:40 PM (#4655255)
Report: Bobcats, Spurs among suitors for Evan Turner trade

--

Buford and Popovich are a lot smarter than I am, but I have just never seen it with Turner.
   288. theboyqueen Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:46 PM (#4655257)
You are crazy. Howard, Cousins, Horford, Hibbert, Davis are clearly better. Bogut, Drummond, Deandre Jordan are probably better. Duncan and Ibaka are better but it depends what position you think they play.
   289. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:54 PM (#4655260)
Noah is really, really good. He's not having one of the top three seasons by a center and I'm not sure that I'd call him a top 3 guy by true talent (whatever that would mean).
I'd take him on my team every day of the week.
   290. vagab0nd (no longer an outl13r) Posted: February 11, 2014 at 11:56 PM (#4655261)
You are crazy. Howard, Cousins, Horford, Hibbert, Davis are clearly better. Bogut, Drummond, Deandre Jordan are probably better. Duncan and Ibaka are better but it depends what position you think they play.


Uh. What?
   291. theboyqueen Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:09 AM (#4655264)
Noah is really, really good. He's not having one of the top three seasons by a center and I'm not sure that I'd call him a top 3 guy by true talent (whatever that would mean).
I'd take him on my team every day of the week.


I definitely agree with all of this.
   292. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:36 AM (#4655270)
DeAndre is shooting 66% from the field and averaging 14 boards per game; also averaging more WS/48.
Bogut also has a WS/48 above Noah's, thanks in part to a 64% FG%, as well as better rebounding and block shot numbers. I'd also consider Bogut (when on the floor, obviously) a better defender, as nebulous a thing as that can be.
Noah's simple off-on#s aren't this season are inspiring either, which surprised me a bit.
Regardless, I take Noah first of that trio, due to a far superior FT% (which has strategic impact), his passing ability, greater offensive flexibility in general (which opens up the paint), and personal preference - but it's far from ridiculous to disagree here.
   293. steagles Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:10 AM (#4655281)
OH. OH OH OH.

billy king got a shoutout on brooklyn 99 tonight.
Buford and Popovich are a lot smarter than I am, but I have just never seen it with Turner.
what's not to see? solid defense, rebounding, ballhandling, positional versatility, and he should be able to score some points.
   294. PJ Martinez Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:24 AM (#4655285)
If OKC really had to choose between Ibaka and Harden (and yes, I know it's not that simple, and that even if they had to choose, they didn't have to deal Harden when they did or take the deal they took), would anyone still choose Harden? Given that they already had Durant and Westbrook, I mean. Last year it seemed like they maybe they made the wrong basic choice, but this year not so much, at least to me.
   295. RollingWave Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:01 AM (#4655293)
Well, I think Harden is the rarer commodity of the 2 in a vacuum, but given where the OKC roster was at, they probably made the right choice in general, but maybe not the right exact trade.
   296. theboyqueen Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:13 AM (#4655294)
Ibaka at this point has to be one of the most underrated players in the league. I grant that he's probably not a center though.
   297. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:53 AM (#4655296)
Is Noah's free throw form still the visual equivalent of the sound of nails on a chalkboard, or has he smoothed that out a little since college?

It was surprisingly effective for him as a Gator, and it's apparently still effective for him now. Jo's always been one of my favorite people in the world, and I obviously love seeing him succeed.
   298. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:41 AM (#4655299)
Were it up to me, I'd have kept Harden and Ibaka and traded Westbrook. It's the one I'd have made then and the one I'd make now. Injuries are not being considered here, just that there are many more good scorers at the bottom end of six feet than at the middle, so Westbrook's production would be easier to approximate on the (relatively) cheap.
   299. RollingWave Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:46 AM (#4655305)
It has me down somewhat because I think you're right that this was the chance to break through. The fact that the point differential is there but the record isn't is one of those bad luck things that would be a blip on the radar for the Mavs or Spurs, but blights an entire generation for a moribund franchise. I really don't know what comes next.


It's really hard to say what's wrong, they have great scorers, but pace adjusted offense is merely good not great, they don't have rim protection but they have enough above average defender . but the whole just keep seeming to be less than the sum. maybe it is just a bit of bad luck coupled with an absurd conference, but boy, that's tough.
   300. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:02 AM (#4655380)
Flip.
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