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Saturday, February 01, 2014

OT: NBA February 2014

In total, 14 former Lakers are under contract with other teams—more if training camp invites and traded draft picks are included:
Charlotte Bobcats: Ramon Sessions, Josh McRoberts, Jannero Pargo and Chris Douglas-Roberts (training camp invite)
Cleveland Cavaliers: Earl Clark
Clippers: Matt Barnes, Antawn Jamison
Houston Rockets: Dwight Howard, Patrick Beverley (drafted 42nd overall in 2009, traded immediately to the Miami Heat)
Indiana Pacers: Andrew Bynum
Miami Heat: Toney Douglas (drafted 29th overall in 2009, traded immediately to the New York Knicks)
Milwaukee Bucks: Caron Butler
Minnesota Timberwolves: Ronny Turiaf
New York Knicks: Metta World Peace
Oklahoma City Thunder: Derek Fisher
Phoenix Suns: Gerald Green (training camp invite)
San Antonio Spurs: Shannon Brown
Utah Jazz: Malcolm Thomas (training camp invite)
Washington Wizards: Trevor Ariza

Bitter Mouse Posted: February 01, 2014 at 04:05 PM | 740 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba

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   301. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:05 AM (#4655386)
Injuries are not being considered here, just that there are many more good scorers at the bottom end of six feet than at the middle, so Westbrook's production would be easier to approximate on the (relatively) cheap

There's like a 1 inch difference in height between the two. Or am I misunderstanding something here?
   302. AROM Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:22 AM (#4655405)
Bird played most of his career as a power forward.


Any lineup that has Bird, Parish, and McHale has to have Bird as small forward. I would say from 84-85 on, the point where McHale played significantly more minutes than Cedric Maxwell, Bird is primarily a small forward. SF probably accounts for more of his career minutes.
   303. AROM Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM (#4655413)
By the way, James' Top 4 were Jordan, Bird, Magic and Oscar (not necessarily in that order).


Lebron is being modest. Only Jordan should rank ahead of him even if he retired today. Including centers I'd put him in the top 4 along with Jordan, Russell, and Kareem.
   304. Booey Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:39 AM (#4655421)
Lebron is being modest.


Agreed. I'd say the top 4 needs to include LeBron, MJ, and Kareem, with the age old Wilt/Russell debate deciding the final spot.
   305. andrewberg Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:11 PM (#4655450)
Buford and Popovich are a lot smarter than I am, but I have just never seen it with Turner.


That could also mean they are "interested" at very different prices. If the Spurs could basically get Turner for the rest of the year for next to nothing, it is at least good wing depth.


Ibaka at this point has to be one of the most underrated players in the league. I grant that he's probably not a center though.


He has a weird offensive profile, but he has become extremely good at that midrange jumper. I think the offense will continue to look better as Perkins plays less and less.
   306. AROM Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:56 PM (#4655491)
with the age old Wilt/Russell debate deciding the final spot


I tried to look at the 1960's stars comparing team performance with and without. West missed enough games to give a pretty reliable sample. Russell missed enough over the years to give you a general idea (Celtics gave up as many points as they scored in the games Bill missed). Chamberlain is tougher, almost all of his missed games are concentrated in one season (where he only played 12 games) but you also have the before/after effect of teams that traded him.

The data didn't look that good for Wilt though. I'm not even sure how valuable Wilt was as a scorer, aside from any effect ball hogging in his early years might have had on his teammates. You'd think a guy shooting 54% in a league that shoots 42% would be valuable, even with 50% free throw shooting. After all, giving 2 shots from the stripe to Wilt is still a higher expected value than giving a jumper to a 42% shooting teammate. Change the numbers a bit, but that was the scenario that Shaq played under.

A difference though is that the NBA had the 1 and 1 free throw rule in effect for at least part of the time. I don't know what percentage of his free throws came from such situations, but if it's significant then it really needs to be considered as to his efficiency from a points per offensive possession used.
   307. andrewberg Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4655501)
It would also be interesting to evaluate the turnover rates, although they were not recorded at the time. That is the other big piece that can drag down a very high usage player with a good FG%.
   308. andrewberg Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:16 PM (#4655513)
I know we haven't talked much about CBB this year, but I wanted to mention the weird trajectory of Georgetown's season. I had very low expectations when Otto Porter left and even lower ones when Greg Whittington and Josh Smith were kicked off the team (the reinforcements come next year by way of recruiting). They lost to Northeastern early and looked bad against Oregon and Kansas, the best pre-conference teams they played. After an ok start in the Big East (which I love, by the way, they basically swapped out the teams I did not like for more teams I have always liked), they lost 6/7, including several games where they blew big leads in the second half. I had completely written off the season. Then, out of nowhere, they beat Michigan State and have rattled off four conference wins in a row. I figured going into that MSU game that the only chance to make the tourney was to lose no more than two games the rest of the way. Now, they need to go 4-2 in the last 6 to meet that goal, but they play the top four teams in the conference over that stretch. If nothing else, it creates some excitement I did not anticipate down the stretch.

Also, I was given good seats to the UW-Stanford game tonight. Anyone on Stanford I should pay particular attention to?
   309. smileyy Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:01 PM (#4655570)
Xavier @ Georgetown should be a good game then.
   310. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:36 PM (#4655617)
You are crazy. Howard, Cousins, Horford, Hibbert, Davis are clearly better. Bogut, Drummond, Deandre Jordan are probably better. Duncan and Ibaka are better but it depends what position you think they play.

Agree on Howard and Hibbert unconditionally. I would also add Marc Gasol. I think Davis will definitely be better than Noah in time, though I'm not completely sure if he is already (and I'd definitely take him over Noah going forward without blinking). I'm lukewarm on Cousins - he is clearly a unique offensive talent, but right now I'm not sure if the total package is greater than Noah (IOW, where the Kings are right now, they rightly should prefer Cousins and I think the Bulls would also be right to prefer Noah). Horford is always tough, and the two are always going to be linked. Noah has minor recurring injuries, but Horford has now lost 2 of his last 3 seasons to a major injury. I think for now, that's enough to have Noah slightly ahead. Same for Bogut, too.

Drummond is a tough one, I see plenty of potential, but he's got some ways to go to catch Noah, IMO. Jordan definitely not. For Duncan, he's still pretty great, and I was going to point to minutes totals, but Noah's minutes are down because of various injuries this year. I haven't considered thinking of Ibaka as a center, so that's interesting.

Is Noah's free throw form still the visual equivalent of the sound of nails on a chalkboard, or has he smoothed that out a little since college?

Yes, it's the same. He also shoots more jump shots using the same form. He's really worked on his post game though, and while it's not great, it's a weapon and he has 2 solidish moves down there (which are as effective as they are because of his passing ability).



   311. vagab0nd (no longer an outl13r) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:45 PM (#4655633)
My "Uh. What?" translates roughly to what Moses said in 310. Except he said it much better than I would have.
   312. AROM Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:03 PM (#4655658)
It would also be interesting to evaluate the turnover rates, although they were not recorded at the time. That is the other big piece that can drag down a very high usage player with a good FG%.


Chris Paul's turnover rate is the reason he ranks so well in WS48. I know CP3 is good, but he's not a great shooter, and not prolific from 3. Why does he have such a higher WS48 than other small guards who were more efficient shooters and also put up big assist numbers, like John Stockton and Steve Nash's prime Phoenix years? The answer is turnovers.

I did a play index looking for guys with 16+ PPG and 9+ APG, sorted by turnover rate. Something like 7 of the 10 best spots on the list were Chris Paul seasons.

As for Wilt, I'm not even sure if it would tell the whole story. If he's posting up on a triple team, Guy Rodgers tries to feed him the ball and somebody steals it, it would have been a turnover on an attempted Wilt scoring possession, but would be recorded as Rodgers' turnover, not Wilt's.
   313. theboyqueen Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:30 PM (#4655702)
Rightly so, as there are presumably two other wide open guys to whom he could have passed the ball.

Wilt was probably the most talented, dominant individual player ever (hell, he may be the most talented, individually dominant ATHLETE we've ever seen). Why that ability was never harnessed into a winning formula must have something to do with coaching/scheme/surrounding personnel although I don't know anything about the basketball of the era so I can't say with any confidence what the problem was.
   314. theboyqueen Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:36 PM (#4655707)
Looking at old clips of Wilt and Bill Russell, the first thing you notice is how unbelievably fast they are. They run like antelopes.
   315. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:37 PM (#4655713)
Noah's been great since around Christmas, when his foot problems seemed to clear up. He's around a 13pt/13reb/6ast avg with great defense*. With Deng gone, he's taken on even more offensive and defensive responsibility, and the Bulls haven't slipped in either (to be fair, they were almost at the bottom offensively with Deng so there wasn't much room to regress, but they still haven't gotten worse). I just hope he isn't wasting his best ball in a meaningless and worthless season.

*Kaman lit him up the other day. Noah's always struggled in individual defense on strong guys with back to the basket games. I think part of that is his ridiculous team responsibilities, he can't truly fight to deny positioning and the risk of foul trouble keeps him from sending guys to the line when beat. When he plays with Gibson he has help - and it's no coincidence Noah and Gibson are playing great together right now.
   316. theboyqueen Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:45 PM (#4655726)
   317. theboyqueen Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:53 PM (#4655740)
One great thing about Magic, Bird, Russell, and Kareem is how their college careers support the professional narrative of them being winners. Jordan was obviously throttled somewhat at NC, but his first olympic run (I remember this as the first time I had ever heard of him or seen him play) is another example of this. Everything we needed to know about these guys was already known by the time they were 22, the rest was just filling in the narrative.
   318. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:04 PM (#4655759)
One great thing about Magic, Bird, Russell, and Kareem is how their college careers support the professional narrative of them being winners. Jordan was obviously throttled somewhat at NC

Only one of those guys didn't win a title in college, and it ain't MJ (he kinda played an important role in that title, btw). Two of them never won the Naismith award*, but one isn't MJ.

*This is obvious cheating and trolling on my end, since the award wasn't around until 1969.
   319. smileyy Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:15 PM (#4655767)
Do CP3's teams / times on the floor show fewer team turnovers?
   320. theboyqueen Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:15 PM (#4655768)
I realize you are being cheeky with your comments, but how many people even know the mascot of Indiana State? He took those guys to the final game and lost to Magic!
   321. AROM Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:34 PM (#4655784)
Why that ability was never harnessed into a winning formula must have something to do with coaching/scheme/surrounding personnel although I don't know anything about the basketball of the era so I can't say with any confidence what the problem was.


You can't say never. The 67 Sixers and the 72 Lakers not only won championships but are among the greatest single season teams ever by record. If you could convince Wilt to control the defensive end and limit his scoring to the highest of high percentage shots, it worked. It just took a long time to get him there, and to figure out that's what needed to be done. His Philadelphia Warrior teams were probably more interested in Wilt setting scoring records than playing championship basketball, thinking in terms of attendance and publicity.
   322. Manny Coon Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4655786)
Just looking the Clippers and Hornets 10/11 and 11/12 we have this for turnover rates:
10/11 11/12
Clippers 15.1 (30th) 12.7 (2nd)
Hornets 12.8 (7th) 15.2 (29th)

So just using that crude example, yes by a huge amount.
   323. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:39 PM (#4655788)
[319] For his career his teams turn it over on 13.6% of possessions while he's on the court and 17% while he's off. The '11-'12 LAC finished 2nd in the league in TOV% at 12.7 in Paul's first year after finishing 30th at 15.1% the year prior. Last year they were 16th at 13.9%, and this year they are 7th at 12.9%. His last year with NOH they were 8th at 12.8% and their first year post-Paul they finished 29th at 15.2%.

   324. RollingWave Posted: February 13, 2014 at 01:43 AM (#4656067)
The Wizard-Rocket's game's ending was just bizarre , Parsons gave the Wizards the game by fouling with 4 seconds left.... then Ariza (who inexplicably hit 10 30s...10!!! this game.) one upped him by fouling before the inbound ...
   325. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 13, 2014 at 02:01 AM (#4656069)
Incredible game by LeBron with a hell of a game winner. His drawn out celebration move still sucks though.
   326. theboyqueen Posted: February 13, 2014 at 02:02 AM (#4656070)
Warriors Heat game was just ridiculous. Curry was getting double and triple teamed all day behind the three point line and making everything. Lebron just went into beast mode and hits a crazy fadeaway three for the win.
   327. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 13, 2014 at 08:16 AM (#4656093)
Didn't know LeBron's celebration was a Van Exel tribute. Feel better about it now.
   328. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: February 13, 2014 at 11:04 AM (#4656161)
Tyler Ennis is good. He is just so ridiculously calm in end game situations. I see him as a CP3-lite.
   329. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 13, 2014 at 11:19 AM (#4656169)
Didn't know LeBron's celebration was a Van Exel tribute. Feel better about it now.

A tribute to a shitty celebration is still shitty.

When googling that, I stumbled on this story, which I somehow missed before.

   330. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 13, 2014 at 11:22 AM (#4656172)
Noah's been great since around Christmas, when his foot problems seemed to clear up. He's around a 13pt/13reb/6ast avg with great defense*. With Deng gone, he's taken on even more offensive and defensive responsibility, and the Bulls haven't slipped in either (to be fair, they were almost at the bottom offensively with Deng so there wasn't much room to regress, but they still haven't gotten worse). I just hope he isn't wasting his best ball in a meaningless and worthless season.

To respond to myself here, Rob Mahoney actually wrote about this yesterday:

That combination has led Chicago to go 13-7 since trading Deng, who was both a terrific player for the Bulls and a cultural totem. Theirs is a team environment in which the loss of one of the great perimeter defenders in the game has translated to a dip of just a single point in defensive efficiency, and the absence of a vital scorer has coincided with sudden offensive improvement.
   331. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 13, 2014 at 11:40 AM (#4656184)
the absence of a vital scorer has coincided with sudden offensive improvement.

Huh?
   332. Manny Coon Posted: February 13, 2014 at 12:19 PM (#4656225)
Warriors Heat game was just ridiculous.


At the same time that was going on the Clippers/Blazers game had 40 lead changes, which I believe is a league record. The end of the game wasn't nearly as dramatic though, Portland just kind of fizzled out at the end.
   333. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 13, 2014 at 12:26 PM (#4656232)
the absence of a vital scorer has coincided with sudden offensive improvement.

Huh?


Well, Deng was the Bulls leading scorer.

---

Some guy at ESPN (I'm not familiar with him) has a new mock draft up (INSIDER). The thing that jumps out at me the most is Smart at 14.
   334. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: February 13, 2014 at 01:57 PM (#4656304)
The thing that jumps out at me the most is Smart at 14.


I would love to see the Cav's pick Gordon. Undersized PF without the skills of a SF. Especially poor shooting. I mean, after the success Hickson, Thompson, and Bennet have had, what could possibly go wrong!
   335. andrewberg Posted: February 13, 2014 at 02:01 PM (#4656309)
That tete-a-tete between Lebron and Curry down the stretch was a thing to behold. Chalmers was working his ass off to defend Curry and Iguodala was doing a very sound job on Lebron, too. It's one thing for a player to go off against a an unfocused opponent or unskilled defensive team, but both of these guys beat good defenders on good defensive teams who were set and playing well.
   336. Manny Coon Posted: February 13, 2014 at 02:08 PM (#4656314)
I would love to see the Cav's pick Gordon. Undersized PF without the skills of a SF. Especially poor shooting. I mean, after the success Hickson, Thompson, and Bennet have had, what could possibly go wrong!


I've seen drafting Tristan Thompson criticized here a few times and I don't really get it, he's not star, but he seems like a decent enough player. Should they have taken Jan Vesely or Bismack Biyombo instead?
   337. Paul d mobile Posted: February 13, 2014 at 02:21 PM (#4656324)
Is there any team in the East that could make a trade that improves them enough to beat Miami or Indiana in a seven game series?
   338. JJ1986 Posted: February 13, 2014 at 02:27 PM (#4656331)
Should they have taken Jan Vesely or Bismack Biyombo instead?


I think Valancianus is the guy usually suggested and he was the player everyone thought they were going to take on draft night. I do agree that it's mostly unfair considering the next ten or so picks in the draft. It's not like they were going to take Kawhi Leonard.
   339. rr Posted: February 13, 2014 at 02:36 PM (#4656341)
Should they have taken Jan Vesely or Bismack Biyombo instead?

--

Well, drafting is tough unless you are talking David Robinson or LeBron James. TT was a decent pick. But I think most people saw Valanciunas, who went at 5, as a better high-ceiling pick. Alec Burks and Klay Thompson also went later. Picking one of those guys to set up the backcourt with Irving might have made sense. Kawhi Leonard went at 15, but stuff like that happens.

Evan Turner: I think he is fine as a 3rd wing or 4th wing, but IMO he doesn't really do anything particularly well.
   340. rr Posted: February 13, 2014 at 02:39 PM (#4656344)
That tete-a-tete between Lebron and Curry down the stretch was a thing to behold

Meh. Just a couple of egomaniacs playing Heroball.

/AbbottThorpeTrueHoop
   341. rr Posted: February 13, 2014 at 02:40 PM (#4656347)
Is there any team in the East that could make a trade that improves them enough to beat Miami or Indiana in a seven game series?

--

Not that I can see.
   342. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 13, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4656362)
Is there any team in the East that could make a trade that improves them enough to beat Miami or Indiana in a seven game series?

CHI if they get Melo.
   343. Spivey Posted: February 13, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4656386)
Yeah, I think there are a few teams that if they got Melo could make a run. Now, I'd still say each would be big dogs. But if Melo went off and Indiana/Miami struggled to make shots it could happen.
   344. Manny Coon Posted: February 13, 2014 at 03:22 PM (#4656399)
I think Valancianus is the guy usually suggested and he was the player everyone thought they were going to take on draft night. I do agree that it's mostly unfair considering the next ten or so picks in the draft. It's not like they were going to take Kawhi Leonard.


Was there some uncertainly with Valanciunas buyout? I thought he was the best pick at the time (I thought he was a better prospect than Kanter or Williams even), but I know he missed one season, was there risk he'd miss more?

If they take Burks and Thompson, people would probably just be criticizing them for taking so many high volume mediocre efficiency guards, or maybe they take Thomas Robinson over Waiters the next year.
   345. steagles Posted: February 13, 2014 at 03:29 PM (#4656409)
I think Valancianus is the guy usually suggested and he was the player everyone thought they were going to take on draft night. I do agree that it's mostly unfair considering the next ten or so picks in the draft. It's not like they were going to take Kawhi Leonard.
funny because on the day of the draft:
Anyone want to make guesses at how the lottery actually turns out? So many mock drafts around, it might be fun to compare what we anticipate.
i'll play your game:

1. irving
2. williams
3. kanter
4. leonard

also, from that same thread:
jon leuer
You should really try to become his agent. I think you have talked up his draft stock more than the rest of the internets, combined. I don't see it, but maybe you're right.


don't like shumpert to the knicks.

but then, i'm a sixers fan, so that probably is a good thing. the guy is a tremendous defender, and he's got some handle.
   346. jmurph Posted: February 13, 2014 at 03:35 PM (#4656418)
CHI if they get Melo.


This year? Or next year? If this year, I don't see it, assuming they'd have to trade Butler.
   347. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 13, 2014 at 04:15 PM (#4656463)
Grantland doc chronicling Nash's season.
   348. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 13, 2014 at 04:21 PM (#4656467)
Is there any team in the East that could make a trade that improves them enough to beat Miami or Indiana in a seven game series?

CHI if they get Melo.


Not this year (unless Rose came back for the playoffs. And even then, a lot would depend on what they'd give up).
   349. smileyy Posted: February 13, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4656470)
But if Melo went off and Indiana/Miami struggled to make shots it could happen.


Doesn't acquiring Melo make the latter less likely?
   350. AROM Posted: February 13, 2014 at 04:47 PM (#4656495)
"Is there any team in the East that could make a trade that improves them enough to beat Miami or Indiana in a seven game series?"

Durant and Ibaka for scrubs would turn around a few teams. Realistically, no.
   351. andrewberg Posted: February 13, 2014 at 05:03 PM (#4656512)
Yeah, and if Toronto acquired Bosh and Lebron, I think that would make them favorites over Miami.
   352. steagles Posted: February 13, 2014 at 05:43 PM (#4656560)
i think this trade might make detroit a stronger contender.
   353. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 13, 2014 at 05:59 PM (#4656570)
i think this trade might make detroit a stronger contender.

I think they might even improve more than the 10 wins the machine predicts (and Miami would also get much worse than it predicts).
   354. andrewberg Posted: February 13, 2014 at 07:19 PM (#4656599)
Here's another trade that I think could get an east team over the hump: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lgdkn69
   355. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 13, 2014 at 07:47 PM (#4656613)
I've figured out a way to get Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey Jr. and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
   356. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 13, 2014 at 08:27 PM (#4656629)
What would you guys do if you were in charge of the Heat wrt resting players/going for the top seed? It feels like the Heat have struggled relatively speaking but they are only two games behind the Pacers and the Thunder in the loss column for the best record in the league. They've already been resting Wade a lot and I expect that to continue however Lebron is still on pace for 3000 minutes this year. Bosh's minutes are down but neither he nor Lebron have missed many games this year. I know he seems indefatigable but he has played a ton of basketball over the last few seasons. They'll get the second seed in the East without trying all that hard and they could end up behind the Thunder and the Pacers even of they went for it.
   357. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: February 13, 2014 at 08:51 PM (#4656642)
I had completely written off the season. Then, out of nowhere, [Georgetown] beat Michigan State and have rattled off four conference wins in a row.

Jabril Trawick baby.

Yeah, once Whittington tore the ACL, the team had no natural 3, unless Reggie Cameron was able to step in (which he hasn't). So it's not a well-constructed roster, but they fightin man. And I'm really looking forward to the incoming class.
   358. rr Posted: February 13, 2014 at 08:55 PM (#4656643)
@berg

A couple pf years ago, some guys who run a Lakers blog got tired of people's silly trade ideas, so they ran a little contest for "Craziest Fanboy Trade that works on the Trade Machine." IIRC, the winner was Steve Blake, Luke Walton, and Metta for LeBron James.
   359. steagles Posted: February 13, 2014 at 09:04 PM (#4656650)
something is definitely up with the trademachine because there is no way that some of these trades have that small an impact, even if it only takes into account the remaining portion of the season.
What would you guys do if you were in charge of the Heat wrt resting players/going for the top seed? It feels like the Heat have struggled relatively speaking but they are only two games behind the Pacers and the Thunder in the loss column for the best record in the league. They've already been resting Wade a lot and I expect that to continue however Lebron is still on pace for 3000 minutes this year. Bosh's minutes are down but neither he nor Lebron have missed many games this year. I know he seems indefatigable but he has played a ton of basketball over the last few seasons. They'll get the second seed in the East without trying all that hard and they could end up behind the Thunder and the Pacers even of they went for it.
run everyone into the ground until about mid-march. then rest everyone for 2 weeks. then run everyone into the ground again until you've got a threepeat in your pocket.
   360. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 12:52 AM (#4656707)
Kendallsanity?
   361. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 14, 2014 at 11:39 AM (#4656833)
birthday team... happy birthday big gheorge.

c gheorge muresan
f reggie king
g rip hamilton
g mad dog carter
g wali jones

f darius songalia
g ty edney
c byron mullens

there's also old timers/obscurities: jerry fleishman, anthony roberson, william smith, and carl mcnulty.
   362. Len Lansford, Carney Barker Posted: February 14, 2014 at 01:24 PM (#4656913)
I've seen drafting Tristan Thompson criticized here a few times and I don't really get it, he's not star, but he seems like a decent enough player. Should they have taken Jan Vesely or Bismack Biyombo instead?


In my mind, I have visions of Klay Thompson riding shotgun with Kyrie Irving.

And then I realize that even if we had Dre Drummond or Thomas Robinson the next season, Byron Scott's probably still out of a job. Which puts all three of them in Mike Brown's offense. And I don't feel as bad. Maybe worse.
   363. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 01:45 PM (#4656927)
Baron Davis and Steve Nash are RDF.
   364. Jimmy P Posted: February 14, 2014 at 01:51 PM (#4656936)
I've seen drafting Tristan Thompson criticized here a few times and I don't really get it, he's not star, but he seems like a decent enough player. Should they have taken Jan Vesely or Bismack Biyombo instead?


The only criticism is probably not taking Valanciunas. Supposedly, they wanted the player that year. A lot people talk about Kawhi Leonard, but he was the 15th pick, so he probably wasn't realistically in the conversation. Nor do I think he is anywhere near the player he is now if he goes to the cesspool of Cleveland.

The big mistake is Dion Waiters (as I'm sure has been covered here). That ruined the 2012 and 2013 drafts for them.
   365. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2014 at 03:32 PM (#4657028)
I didn't watch the Bulls game last night, but I guess Sager reported this from the sideline:

Although Carlos Boozer started all 46 games he has played this year, he is down to a career low 2.8 minutes in the 4th quarter. And after Luol Deng was traded to Cleveland earlier this year, Boozer began to wonder about his own future with the team. He told me tonight that he has been assured that he will not be traded by next week's deadline, nor will the team buyout the final year of his contract this summer UNLESS they can land a superstar which is too good to pass up.


I can believe that the Bulls told him he wouldn't be traded this year, but I'm not sure why they'd feel the need to do so. I struggle to believe they told him he wouldn't be bought out (or amnestied), though it's always a fear that the Bulls will cheap out and not get rid of him. I could see, maybe, telling him they would evaluate it further after the season, or that they aren't considering that right now, but to outright tell him that is absurd. Because even if they amnestied him, they still don't have cap space for a max deal. If they don't amnesty him, they won't have any cap space.

If the Bulls already have decided to not amnesty him, it's going to be very hard to have faith in this front office being able to overcome their ownership handicaps/restrictions to actually build a championship team again. Adam Silver disagrees with me though:

“When I travel, there are so many Bulls fans everywhere,” Silver told Swirsky. “You have the Bulls fantastic ownership group, Jerry Reinsdorf with his partners and now with Michael [Reinsdorf] stepping up and being, in essence, the governor of the team and someone I deal with on a regular basis. I think they’ve demonstrated the model for how to run a sports team. They run it in a way where they are consistently bringing results to the fans, being smart about how to operate in a cap system, and how to strategize over time to have great teams.

“They’re a pleasure to work with. I don’t want to say one team is more meaningful than another team in this league because part of my mandate is to ensure we have a competitive league where fans in every market can believe in their team and root for championships,” said Silver. “But there is no better run team than the Chicago Bulls.”


(all of this is essentially stolen from Blogabull.
   366. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2014 at 03:35 PM (#4657030)
Still not Larry Sanders's year (outside of the huge contract extension):

Larry Sanders underwent successful surgery yesterday to repair right orbital bone fractures & will be sidelined for a minimum of six weeks.

— Milwaukee Bucks (@Bucks) February 14, 2014
   367. steagles Posted: February 14, 2014 at 03:44 PM (#4657038)
“When I travel, there are so many Bulls fans everywhere,” Silver told Swirsky. “You have the Bulls fantastic ownership group, Jerry Reinsdorf with his partners and now with Michael [Reinsdorf] stepping up and being, in essence, the governor of the team and someone I deal with on a regular basis. I think they’ve demonstrated the model for how to run a sports team. They run it in a way where they are consistently bringing results to the fans, being smart about how to operate in a cap system, and how to strategize over time to have great teams.

“They’re a pleasure to work with. I don’t want to say one team is more meaningful than another team in this league because part of my mandate is to ensure we have a competitive league where fans in every market can believe in their team and root for championships,” said Silver. “But there is no better run team than the Chicago Bulls.”
question to bulls fans:

would i be wrong if i said that that basically comes down to 2 decisions they've gotten right in the last 5 years? if they hadn't hired thibideaux, or if they had drafted beasley instead of rose, they'd still be thought of as one of the worst organizations in pro sports going back 15 years to when they traded elton brand for tyson chandler, right?
   368. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 14, 2014 at 03:55 PM (#4657050)
pelton and haberstroh did a mock expansion draft (insider) for espn ... i'm going to look at it later, but it should be nice fodder for discussion.
   369. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4657066)
would i be wrong if i said that that basically comes down to 2 decisions they've gotten right in the last 5 years? if they hadn't hired thibideaux, or if they had drafted beasley instead of rose, they'd still be thought of as one of the worst organizations in pro sports going back 15 years to when they traded elton brand for tyson chandler, right?

Yes, you would be wrong. That would be over-simplifying it, and as bad as they were for those 6 years from 98-04 (only 1 losing season since then, and that pre-dates Thibs and Rose), I don't think they were ever considered a bad organization*. You hit on the 2 biggest things they got right from a team building perspective, but I don't know if that's really what Silver is talking about. The Bulls have been popular and profitable, even when they sucked. They've been close to 100% in attendance since they opened the United Center 20 years ago. They've only paid the tax once, so I could see because they don't really impact the salary market would be a reason for the commissioner to like them a little more. They have good players, and they're marketable. They draw good ratings. And to be fair, Silver might not actually think they're the best, but he was playing to his audience.

You could make a pretty long list of things they've gotten right** and wrong*** over the years, and I think the good would outweigh the bad.

*That was the nadir of the Blackhawks, so they weren't even close to the worst organization in their own building.
**Drafting Deng, Noah, Gibson, Butler. Signing Korver, Dunleavy, Watson, NateRob, etc.
***Trading for Chandler, giving him away for nothing. Ben Wallace. Tyrus Thomas for Aldridge. James Johnson. Etc...
   370. rr Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:30 PM (#4657069)
Silver must think that he needs Reinsdorf's political support for some stuff he wants to do in the early years of his tenure.

The Bulls have made some good decisions the last few years, and I think that they are a pretty well-run team. But if Silver is going to talk about well-run NBA teams in flowery terms, I would suggest that he start by talking about the Spurs. Good management certainly matters in the NBA, but as we have discussed before, luck matters a lot as well. The Lakers were both smart and lucky for about 30 years; since 2011 they have been neither, and the results are what we see. Looking at Chicago, they caught a huge break when they won the lottery when Rose came out and then they shrewdly made Rose their pick. So they were on their way...until their luck turned dramatically for the worse WRT Rose's health. Now they may never get over the hill in the Rose era.

The other thing with the NBA is that since 1 or 2 guys can have such as massive impact, you can make 15 good decisions, but if you miss a big one, you can still be screwed. And the reverse is true: get one big thing right, and that can cover a lot of mistakes. OKC is well-run, and I think POR mostly is too, but how different would the arcs for those franchises be if Portland had taken Durant? Memphis has made many good decisions, but they are still haunted by taking Thabeet at #2 when Harden was on the board. NBA team-building is a rough gig.

   371. jmurph Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:31 PM (#4657074)
*****EDDY CURRY*****

Come on, Moses!
   372. jmurph Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:35 PM (#4657078)
I, too, think that steagles exaggerates to the point of being wrong, overall, in 367; they've drafted quite well the past several years. But I do think he's right that they were legitimately considered to be a mess for several years post-Jordan.
   373. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4657080)
Deeks's where are they now column is always a great read/timewaster.
   374. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:42 PM (#4657085)
*****EDDY CURRY*****

Come on, Moses!


Fine, but he goes in the Good (dumping him on NYK for the pick that eventually became Noah) and the Bad.

But if Silver is going to talk about well-run NBA teams in flowery terms, I would suggest that he start by talking about the Spurs.

Agreed. Again, I'm thinking money and stuff like that (ratings), are included.
   375. jmurph Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:44 PM (#4657088)
Fine, but he goes in the Good (dumping him on NYK for the pick that eventually became Noah) and the Bad.


Ha, was actually thinking the same thing.
   376. Jimmy P Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:45 PM (#4657089)
*That was the nadir of the Blackhawks, so they weren't even close to the worst organization in their own building.


The Blackhawks are truly proof of what ownership means to a team. The turnaround of that franchise is amazing.

Silver must think that he needs Reinsdorf's political support for some stuff he wants to do in the early years of his tenure.


I thought this, too. And, I also think that Silver's looking at it from the businessman's view. The Bulls are successful because they don't pay the tax, they rake in money hand over fist, and in general, their fans are pretty happy. That's a great way to be. Winning the title probably doesn't matter too much to Silver, and while it does to Jerry, it pales compared to making money. I'm a Sox and a Bulls fan, and I know from experience that Jerry's priorities as an owner are 1) make money for Jerry and 2) win a title.
   377. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:46 PM (#4657091)
I, too, think that steagles exaggerates to the point of being wrong, overall, in 367; they've drafted quite well the past several years. But I do think he's right that they were legitimately considered to be a mess for several years post-Jordan.

I don't mean to gloss over how bad those 6 years were - I don't think it's the worst 6 year stretch ever by winning % (some expansion team has that, IIRC), but it's close. Krause obviously had a bit of extra rope due to his contributions to the title teams, but there was only 1 GM and 2 coaching changes in that stretch. When I think of "worst organizations in pro sports", I think of the Cleveland Browns now, or maybe the Cavs. I think there has to be some front office/coaching/management issues, too; just sucking for a while isn't that notable.
   378. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:49 PM (#4657093)
Winning the title probably doesn't matter too much to Silver, and while it does to Jerry, it pales compared to making money. I'm a Sox and a Bulls fan, and I know from experience that Jerry's priorities as an owner are 1) make money for Jerry and 2) win a title.

You mean winning the World Series, right? Cause I honestly wonder if Jerry cares about winning another NBA championship.
   379. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:51 PM (#4657095)
In my brief interactions with Krause, he doesn't come across as caring too much about winning the NBA title. He would rather do it than not, obviously, but his true passions seem to be (1) baseball and (2) making money. Really upfront, logical guy. I like him, but if i was a Bulls fan I would be very frustrated with him.
   380. rr Posted: February 14, 2014 at 05:04 PM (#4657103)
The point about the business aspect of the Bulls in Silver's praise is a fair one, but I would add a couple of caveats to it. First, Chicago is a huge city and a very passionate sports town with a long history of intense sports fandom, with really cold winters, so the Bulls have some built-in advantages. The counterpoint would be that teams like the Spurs are the only game in town, whereas the Bulls compete in a sense with the Bears, Blackhawks, Cubs, and White Sox, but I also think that big multi-team markets have interlocking fanbase passions that feed on themselves. OTOH, if the Spurs had not gotten Duncan and/or Robinson, and/or if Buford and Popovich weren't so shrewd, it is easy to see that franchise being a relocation candidate. I can't see that being likely with a team operating in Chicago.

Second, Jordan was such a transformational and magnetic figure that what he (and Pippen/Phil et al) did in Chicago still resonates on some level, and I think the Bulls probably benefit from that in some ways, even now, in terms of fan loyalty, etc. Simmons talked about something somewhat similar in the intro to TBOB, which was a mini-memoir of sorts on his and his dad's shared passion for the Celtics. His dad more or less lucked/happened into the season tickets, and the first teams that they saw were the last pre-merger teams--the Cowens/Havlicek title teams. But even when the team hit the skids, Simmons Sr. stuck with the tix, because they remembered how awesome it had been. Then Bird came, and they were (and are) hooked forever, even though most of the post-Bird years have not been that great for the franchise.
   381. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 14, 2014 at 05:09 PM (#4657107)
But I do think he's right that they were legitimately considered to be a mess for several years post-Jordan.

Oh, of course.

The aftermath of the Eddy Curry/Tyson Chandler draft (and Marcus Fizer) was the equivalent of today's Dion Waiters/Anthony Bennett discourse.
   382. Jimmy P Posted: February 14, 2014 at 05:09 PM (#4657109)
You mean winning the World Series, right? Cause I honestly wonder if Jerry cares about winning another NBA championship.


Well, I think he weights them both equally now. You can't really look at what the White Sox have done the last 5 or so years and say they're gunning for a title. Especially last year when they traded away all the most marketable veterans and received one prospect (and not a great one). Oh, and tons of savings for Jerry.
   383. rr Posted: February 14, 2014 at 05:35 PM (#4657118)
Simmons on the Nash documentary:

link

A solid year passed. My phone rang one night.

Nash???

Within a few seconds, he was spilling everything. He hated being a cap figure. He hated that his teammates only knew him two ways: as the quarterback of those delightful Suns teams, and as the banged-up geezer who was barely hanging on. He spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about basketball and his body, and not in that order, coming to the conclusion that he couldn’t retire yet. He wasn’t sure if that stubbornness was fueled by denial or hubris, or both. He wondered if the same trait that made so many athletes great — supreme confidence at all times — was their mortal enemy in moments like this. He didn’t trust his own instincts
   384. Len Lansford, Carney Barker Posted: February 14, 2014 at 06:06 PM (#4657127)
The only criticism is probably not taking Valanciunas. Supposedly, they wanted the player that year. A lot people talk about Kawhi Leonard, but he was the 15th pick, so he probably wasn't realistically in the conversation. Nor do I think he is anywhere near the player he is now if he goes to the cesspool of Cleveland.

The big mistake is Dion Waiters (as I'm sure has been covered here). That ruined the 2012 and 2013 drafts for them.


I look at a roster of Irving, Valacuinas, Barnes, and Oladipo and scratch my head wondering how Grant would still have a job by now. My Chris Grant Memorial Draft Re-Do comes up Irving, Klay Thompson, Drummond, and Bennett and mmmmmmmmaybe he still has a job. Depends if we get a head coaching hire re-do as well.

2012 and 2013 are looking to have been really really really bad years to have tanked for the lottery.
   385. thok Posted: February 14, 2014 at 10:27 PM (#4657205)
Apparently they did some Basketball Hall of Fame voting today: David Stern (contributer committee), Sarunas Maciulionis (international committee), Bob Leonard (ABA committe), Nat Clifton (early African-American committee) and Guy Rodgers (veterans committee) are in.

Still to be voted on are ten finalists: Kevin Johnson, Alonzo Mourning, Tim Hardaway, Mitch Ritchmond, Spencer Haywood, Nolan Richardson, Eddie Sutton, Gary Williams, Harley Redin, and the early 70's Immaculata University teams.

I'm not sure if Hardaway or especially Richmond belongs, but it would be fun to see three Run DMC Warriors get inducted together.
   386. steagles Posted: February 14, 2014 at 11:38 PM (#4657215)
so, i'm pretty sure grant hill and chris webber just sang the chorus from theme of "the wayans brothers".

also, i can't help but love the fact that MCW seems to have attached himself to the hip of anthony davis. let's get that big 3 synergy going now before they join up here in philly in a few years.
   387. puck Posted: February 15, 2014 at 02:28 AM (#4657243)
Does DRtg on basketball-reference.com tend to overrate the defensive rebounders? Well, I guess over-rate isn't the right word...maybe what I mean is DRtg isn't a good measure of one-on-one defending for them since their defensive rebounding will be a big factor.

Just wondering as it seems the party line around Denver that Kenneth Faried is a poor defender, but his DRtg isn't bad relative to the rest of the team. There also seem to be persistent trade rumors about him. yet his PER and WS/48 have been among the best on the team each of this 3 years.
   388. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 15, 2014 at 01:50 PM (#4657358)
According to rumors, the Thunder are looking for a wing who can shoot and isn't a liability on defense, the Sixers are trying to get a 1st rounder for Spencer Hawes, and the Cavs consider themselves buyers rather than sellers though they're still very much looking toward this summer and their long-term outlook. This gave me an idea for a 3-team trade to give each team what it wants. Basically, the Thunder get Varejao, CJ Miles, and minimum-salary filler, the Cavs get Hawes and Andre Roberson, and the Sixers get Kendrick Perkins, Hasheem Thabeet, a 1st rounder (DAL if conveyed this year, or OKC) and a high 2nd rounder (ORL) in the upcoming draft.

The Cavs don't seem too enthusiastic about paying Varejao $10M next year given his age and injury history, but he'd be a big step up from Perkins for OKC. If the Thunder can just keep him healthy for the playoffs, I think they'd improve from contender to favorite status. Plus, if they're looking for a 15-20 mpg shooter with competent defense, that's CJ Miles in a nutshell. Roberson looks like a decent player but he can't crack the rotation, and they'd still have their own 1st rounder and a bunch of value contracts, so they wouldn't be sacrificing much.

For Cleveland, Hawes spaces the floor for Irving, Waiters, and Deng to get to the rim, and with his expiring contract they'd gain max cap space this summer. This season they're likely indifferent between Roberson and Miles, and for the next 3 years Roberson projects better than any future 2nd rounder. Cleveland would still have its own 2nd rounder and another one from Memphis after losing Orlando's.

Philly would project to add perhaps the 22nd and 33rd picks in what looks to be a very strong and deep draft, while only giving up a player they have no apparent intention of bringing back next year. The Sixers are uniquely qualified to absorb Perkins, as the extra few million in salary this year wouldn't even bring them up to the league's salary floor, and they'd still have plenty of cap room this summer to pursue Lance Stephenson, Gordon Hayward, Eric Bledsoe, or whatever other young free agent they might like.

Just wondering as it seems the party line around Denver that Kenneth Faried is a poor defender, but his DRtg isn't bad relative to the rest of the team. There also seem to be persistent trade rumors about him. yet his PER and WS/48 have been among the best on the team each of this 3 years.

DRtg isn't particularly useful at the individual level. It's essentially the Team DRtg while a player is on the floor plus some minor adjustments based on individual box score stats that weakly correlate to defensive value, namely defensive rebounds, blocks, and steals. A lot of poor defensive big men look good by DRtg as a result, particularly relative to the perimeter players on their own team. A big joke among Bulls fans is how Carlos Boozer annually rates among the league leaders in DRtg despite being the worst defender on the team. He grabs the discretionary defensive rebounds, and since other guys anchor the always-stout team defense and make up for his lapses, he looks really good by that measure.

I think that Faried is an average defensive power forward, but the expectations for him have always been higher. His activity level as a rebounder and his athletic ability give the impression that he could be a difference-maker on defense like a Rodman-lite, but he just seems to have poor defensive awareness. He gets lost in rotations, resulting in more easy baskets than one might expect. By DRtg Faried and Hickson are the best defenders on the team because they grab the defensive boards and get their share of blocks and steals, but together they form a pretty bad defensive front line. The Nuggets probably float Faried's name to see if someone values him above his existing level of performance, but finding that other teams are looking for a steal, they hold onto him.
   389. steagles Posted: February 15, 2014 at 02:21 PM (#4657368)
Philly would project to add perhaps the 22nd and 33rd picks in what looks to be a very strong and deep draft, while only giving up a player they have no apparent intention of bringing back next year. The Sixers are uniquely qualified to absorb Perkins, as the extra few million in salary this year wouldn't even bring them up to the league's salary floor, and they'd still have plenty of cap room this summer to pursue Lance Stephenson, Gordon Hayward, Eric Bledsoe, or whatever other young free agent they might like.
i wouldn't touch that as the sixers. perkins salary doesn't matter this year, but it limits them in the offseason, and as a player, perkins is just completely worthless ever since he blew out his knee.

the sixers already have 5 picks this year, including 3 in the 2nd round, and while i'd like to have another 1st, it's not close to being worth it if it means taking on perkins.
   390. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 15, 2014 at 04:42 PM (#4657412)
Of course Philly doesn't want Perkins for his value as a player; the question is whether the cash expenditure can buy them more value than the #22 and #33 picks in this draft. Honestly I think that's the best return on that investment they could get. In recent times, Charlotte got a protected future 1st for taking on Ben Gordon's $13M this year and $15M overall (the pick will be late lottery or in the 15-16 range two years later, unless the Pistons drop a few spots and roll it over again), and Utah got two future 1sts to take on $24M for the Warriors (early-20s pick this year plus wherever they land in the 2017 draft). The Sixers would be getting an immediate late 1st and early 2nd in a good draft to take on just $9M next year and $12M overall. If they end up with more draft picks than open roster spots, they could always stash a guy in Europe, package them to trade up for someone they covet, or make a trade for a good young player or better picks in the future.

Technically it limits what the Sixers can do this summer, but would it limit them in any practical sense? They'd go from $30M in cap space to $21M, and there's no way LeBron, Melo, Bosh, or Wade would go to a team that just had the second-worst record in the league. The good young free agents are unlikely to go anywhere, either because they're restricted or in a good situation, and each of them has a max salary under $20M anyway. It's far more likely that the Sixers fall below the salary floor again this summer than worry about the cap. With Perkins and Jason Richardson expiring next year with $16M in combined salary, the Sixers would be in a great spot to either make a trade or be active in the 2015 offseason, when they'll have a better idea of where they stand long-term at each position.
   391. puck Posted: February 15, 2014 at 04:59 PM (#4657421)
#388, thanks for the explanation. As I read how it is calculated, it seemed like it would overrate rebounders.
   392. steagles Posted: February 15, 2014 at 07:10 PM (#4657453)
In recent times, Charlotte got a protected future 1st for taking on Ben Gordon's $13M this year and $15M overall (the pick will be late lottery or in the 15-16 range two years later, unless the Pistons drop a few spots and roll it over again), and Utah got two future 1sts to take on $24M for the Warriors (early-20s pick this year plus wherever they land in the 2017 draft). The Sixers would be getting an immediate late 1st and early 2nd in a good draft to take on just $9M next year and $12M overall.
fwiw, i've argued in the past that those were terrible trades for the same reason. the 22nd pick is not worth $12MM in a world where you can buy the same pick outright for less than a million on draft night.

if i'm making that deal, the thunder cannot get varejao AND dump perkins AND keep jeremy lamb and steven adams.
   393. Big Ears Teddy shouldn't see TFTIO Posted: February 15, 2014 at 07:20 PM (#4657459)
It'd be great to see Run-TMC to go in with Sarunas Marciulionis, my favorite player of all time. Mitch Richmond is my #2.
   394. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 16, 2014 at 12:11 AM (#4657508)
fwiw, i've argued in the past that those were terrible trades for the same reason. the 22nd pick is not worth $12MM in a world where you can buy the same pick outright for less than a million on draft night.

Unless you mean 22nd pick of the second round, that's not the world we live in, nor has it been in a long time. If you can buy a pick, it'll cost your year's cash allowance (3m) - more likely, other assets would be involved.
   395. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 16, 2014 at 12:48 AM (#4657515)
Examples:
The Warriors send a 2014 second-round pick and $1.6 million in cash considerations to the Timberwolves in exchange for the No. 26 pick and guard Malcolm Lee (whose value I perceived as slightly negative at the time). The Warriors then sent the No. 26 pick to the Thunder in exchange for the No. 29 pick and $1.0 million.
   396. steagles Posted: February 16, 2014 at 12:55 AM (#4657520)
Unless you mean 22nd pick of the second round, that's not the world we live in, nor has it been in a long time. If you can buy a pick, it'll cost your year's cash allowance (3m) - more likely, other assets would be involved.
i haven't seen exact cash amounts reported for a while so i have no reason to doubt you, but even so, 3 million still isn't 12. and the 3 million doesn't count against the salary cap like the 12 does. and it doesn't include having to actually watch kendrick perkins like the 12 does.

if you look to last year and take, say, rudy gobert as precedent, utah got him for cash and a 2nd round pick. even assuming it took the full 3 million, that's still a much, much, much better deal.

and while picks are not as easy to come by as they once were, they are still available because the first two years of the contract are guaranteed for 1st round picks and that's still an issue at various times for various teams for various reasons.
   397. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: February 17, 2014 at 01:49 AM (#4657892)
I heard somebody on the radio call Bill Russell the most decorated homeless looking man in world history.
   398. Booey Posted: February 17, 2014 at 01:49 PM (#4658050)
I heard somebody on the radio call Bill Russell the most decorated homeless looking man in world history.


Pau Gasol isn't going to match Russell in "decorations", but he's got him beat in the homeless looking department. And he didn't even need to be old and gray to do it. That's impressive.
   399. rr Posted: February 17, 2014 at 03:28 PM (#4658103)
Conceding that it's a "joke", anyone who actually thinks that Gasol and Russell look like homeless guys is either visually unfamiliar with the homeless, and/or with the concept of "scraggly beards."
   400. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 17, 2014 at 03:37 PM (#4658108)
Not only is everyone with a beard "homeless", everyone with a mustache is a "porn star" and also a "pedophile". LOL!
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