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Wednesday, January 02, 2013

OT NBA Monthly Thread—January 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the fiscal cliff and Civil War generals.

baudib Posted: January 02, 2013 at 01:16 AM | 1049 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, off-topic

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   701. bigboy1234 Posted: January 25, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4354958)
Out of boredum, here are all the all-stars, sorted by PER.

RAPM WS/48  PER  WS MP  Age  Tm  Player
7.3 0.286 30.3 8.9 1502 28 MIA  LeBronJames
6.1 0.305 29.2 10.8 1706 24 OKC  KevinDurant
7.8 0.288 26.1 7.8 1306 27 LAC  ChrisPaul
2.5 0.194 25.1 5.0 1242 28 NYK  CarmeloAnthony
6.4 0.211 24.9 5.6 1269 36 SAS  TimDuncan
4.2 0.183 23.4 4.5 1170 31 MIA  DwyaneWade
2.6 0.179 23.4 6.1 1634 34 LAL  KobeBryant
3.1 0.183 23.0 6.0 1568 24 OKC  RussellWestbrook
3.5 0.211 22.9 6.2 1409 30 SAS  TonyParker
4.4 0.200 22.5 5.9 1426 23 LAC  BlakeGriffin
1.3 0.136 22.2 3.2 1143 20 CLE  KyrieIrving
4.5 0.174 22.0 6.0 1659 23 HOU  JamesHarden
4.7 0.240 21.0 6.6 1323 30 NYK  TysonChandler
1.0 0.183 21.0 4.9 1277 28 MIA  ChrisBosh
4.3 0.132 19.8 3.7 1362 27 LAL  DwightHoward
3.7 0.127 19.6 4.0 1519 27 POR  LaMarcusAldridge
2.4 0.156 19.6 4.9 1505 29 GSW  DavidLee
2.3 0.164 19.1 4.7 1370 31 MEM  ZachRandolph
0.5 0.083 18.8 2.5 1449 22 PHI  JrueHoliday
1.5 0.110 18.5 3.2 1378 26 BOS  RajonRondo
5.3 0.121 18.3 3.2 1254 36 BOS  KevinGarnett
2.4 0.148 17.4 4.8 1543 22 IND  PaulGeorge
4.2 0.139 16.9 4.4 1533 27 CHI  JoakimNoah
1.3 0.118 15.2 3.7 1514 27 CHI  LuolDeng 


Then here are players who didn't make the team that came in top 5 (of those that didn't make the team) in either RAPM, PER, or WS/48 (700+ MP):

RAPM WS/48  PER  WS MP  Age  Tm  Player
1.2 0.190 25.4 4.1 1028 24 BRK  BrookLopez
-1.5 0.177 23.1 3.2 855 26 BRK  AndrayBlatche
-0.5 0.212 22.9 3.7 838 19 DET  AndreDrummond
2.4 0.179 22.0 3.4 901 30 CLE  AndersonVarejao
2.6 0.187 21.5 3.2 830 26 TOR  KyleLowry
5.5 0.198 20.9 3.7 896 35 SAS  ManuGinobili
2.8 0.234 20.5 5.0 1022 28 SAS  TiagoSplitter
5.3 0.167 20.4 4.4 1275 27 UTA  PaulMillsap
4.1 0.166 19.8 5.1 1490 24 GSW  StephenCurry
4.1 0.199 19.1 5.8 1403 28 MEM  MarcGasol
4.1 0.159 18.0 3.6 1074 25 TOR  AmirJohnson
4.1 0.063 17.4 1.8 1363 27 ATL  JoshSmith
4.4 0.148 16.8 4.2 1373 25 MEM  MikeConley
4.7 0.072 14.0 2.3 1526 29 DEN  AndreIguodala 


   702. andrewberg Posted: January 25, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4354961)
So Splitter is 5th in the NBA in WS/48?
   703. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 25, 2013 at 03:34 PM (#4355018)
I like the Pelicans name change and the logo. That's all.

edit: Also, New Orleans has a long history of baseball teams named the Pelicans so it's a nice tie in to the city's sports history, too.
   704. kpelton Posted: January 25, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4355028)
Thanks, all.

To answer a couple questions, Tom Haberstroh and I will continue to split Per Diem with occasional guest appearances from the rest of the Insider stat-minded team.

The future of the book has been discussed to some extent. As was the case when Hollinger stopped writing the Forecast, the same content will go into the player/team previews next fall, but there still might be the opportunity to offer it in some kind of book version, at least to Insiders. Something similar is probably true of the SCHOENE projections. Have to figure out what role, if any, they might play on the fantasy side of things.
   705. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 25, 2013 at 05:40 PM (#4355108)
This, the Bulls record, and Derrick Rose's absence are his qualifications.


I guess I get the defense argument, but if records are an argument I don't see why the Bulls get two all-stars when neither the Nets nor the Hawks have any.

And there's part of me that doesn't like putting generic offensive guys who play good perimeter D in the All-Star game. On the one hand, the All-Star team shouldn't only be based on offense, and it's good to recognize guys for more than that. But, aesthetically, the last thing I want from my All-Star game viewing is a guy like Deng who is fine on offense and does nothing special, but can play good D on the wing. What fun is that? Give me Josh Smith throwing down alley-oops and jacking up silly threes or Kyle Lowry zipping up and down the court or whatever instead. Part of me prefers that and letting someone like Deng get recognized through the All-Defenseive team if he's really that good.

I also recognize that there's a bit of a position imbalance - the East is heavy with bigs and point guards, but not as much with wings.

And, Kevin, thanks for the update. Jason Kidd is still not an All-Star, though. :-)
   706. rr Posted: January 25, 2013 at 05:44 PM (#4355116)
Well, I expected that Pelton would get part of Hollinger's old job, and the promotion is well-deserved.

I cancelled my BaskPro subscription (the articles are good, but I don't follow college ball enough to make it worth it for me personally) so now I will have to consider the Pelton/Abbott calculus in terms of re-activating Insider (yes, I know that Abbott is not behind the paywall).
   707. Jimmy P Posted: January 25, 2013 at 06:21 PM (#4355146)
Give me Josh Smith throwing down alley-oops

Josh Smith just isn't going to make an All-Star team. Last year was the year. I think the coaches have him labelled as a problem, and nothing is going to change that.

Course, him getting suspended for actions in practice pretty much ended his All-Star chances this season.
   708. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 25, 2013 at 08:02 PM (#4355194)
There are far too many tweets involved to link, but Hardwood Paroxysm's twitter feed has been telling anecdotes from Igoudala about playing D in the league, especially on LeBron, Kobe, Wade, and the like. It's fascinating.
   709. Maxwn Posted: January 25, 2013 at 08:31 PM (#4355209)
Booey,

You asked who I would leave off the all-star team for Gasol on the last page. First, if there is only going to be one Grizzly, it should be Gasol and not Randolph, so I would be fine making that trade. Randolph is important and is having a fine season, but the Grizzlies win because they are either the best or second-best defense in the NBA. The reason that is true is because of Gasol.

Secondly, if I was picking the teams, I would have no problem leaving Dwight off instead of Gasol. I think it's an open question on which one of them is more valuable on offense, and I am nearly positive that on defense it's Gasol by a fair margin. Of course it's fan voting, so that was never going to happen, but if we're talking what should happen the abstract, that's what I think.

Finally, I also think Gasol is better/more valuable than Aldridge or Lee, so if I have to pick him over one of those two, I would. I agree with you that Lee is more deserving than Aldridge, so I wouldn't drop him if I didn't have to.

No argument on Duncan or Griffin.

Anyway, it's just the all-star game, so who cares, but if I was picking the Western team those are my thoughts.
   710. steagles Posted: January 25, 2013 at 08:38 PM (#4355212)
There are far too many tweets involved to link, but Hardwood Paroxysm's twitter feed has been telling anecdotes from Igoudala about playing D in the league, especially on LeBron, Kobe, Wade, and the like. It's fascinating.
it really is great. some highlights:

Iguodala turns sideways often when contesting guys going ISO, says it lessens the likelihood of getting a foul drawn.
Iguodala revealed a trick. When offensive players clear out, he'll lean backwards with the shove, but grab the hand with it. Buys him time.
"The second (grabbing their hand) buys me is the time they need to get a shot off. By the time they recover I'm back in front."
"WAY harder to guard a guy off stationary position or triple-threat. Easy to guard a guy on the dribble."
Iguodala says Parker and LeBron are the 2 most deadly guys in transition in NBA. Key is to meet them in the paint the second he gets there
How does he time a block on Westbrook ISO? "When he jumps off that right foot (driving left) I know he can't dunk it. So I have a second."
"LeBron has a play he did something in Cleveland where he'd call a number in fast breaks..." (cont)
"You'd see him get those weak side blocks on fast breaks when a guy would try and lay it up? He'd do is call out a number, like '5!" (cont)
"then the guy in front of the ball, all he would do is cut 'em off and make 'em take a side-step." (cont)
"Once you make a side-step, you don't have as much lift. And that's why they'd always have to lay it up. Then he'd come in for the block."
"So that's the same thing, I just want to make LeBron side-step. I'm not even trying to do anything, I just get the strip."


and then there was this:
I fed Iguodala a softball for his ego. "Are you the best perimeter defender in the NBA?" AI: "Nope." Me: ....Who?" AI: "Hand to God, Jrue [holiday]."


   711. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 25, 2013 at 10:12 PM (#4355237)
Celtics-Hawks tonight:

29-10 Celtics after 1.
48-21 Celtics midway through 2nd.
Since: 38-11, Hawks. 59-59, midway through the 3rd.
   712. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: January 25, 2013 at 10:33 PM (#4355250)
I am fast becoming a Jimmy Butler fan boy. When rose is back I would like him to split time at the 2 and 3 getting 20-30 min a game keeps out nate ans helps bolster the crapton, rip and deng
   713. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 25, 2013 at 10:34 PM (#4355251)
Wow. Just watched Drummond, isolated against Wade at the top of the key, cleanly and easily strip Wade as Wade went into his crossover and then handle the ball all the way up the court with Wade and another Heat defender trailing him before getting fouled as he went for a layup. Impressive stuff.
   714. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: January 25, 2013 at 11:26 PM (#4355274)
10 games over .500 without rose who would have thought that?
   715. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 25, 2013 at 11:27 PM (#4355275)
Drummond has posted a higher PER as a pro than he did in college...
   716. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 26, 2013 at 12:02 AM (#4355298)
I do not understand the problem some Bulls fans have with Nate Robinson. He takes some dumb shots at times, but he's been great off the bench and it's pretty close between him and Bellinelli who's the best 3pt shooter this year. He's better than JL3, and he was a fan favorite before he stepped on the court. Only Boozer has a better PER on the team right now (he's tied with Noah). When Rose comes back, it's Hinrich (and Rip*) who should lose minutes to Rose (and Butler), not Nate. He's also perfectly adequate on defense.

*I really don't want to see Rip play at all - he's pretty much on the Bogans plan of starting the halfs and not coming back in or playing more than 20mins. I think the Bulls would get by just fine mixing Butler, Bellinelli and Robinson/Hinrich at the 2 (and the first 2 backing up Deng at the 3 or sliding Deng to minutes at the 4 and Hinrich and Robinson splitting time at the 1 - they've starting to play minutes together now in preparation for when they're the backup backcourt).

10 games over .500 without rose who would have thought that?

I did predict them as the 2 seed on this thread, so I'll take credit for that. And to answer one of Matt's questions from the last page, I'll repost this tweet that about sums it up:

@jerryhizonfire Thibs' system is like a McDonald's franchise. No matter who you put in it, it'll be successful


I said it before, but all the talk about the players the Bulls lost this offseason slightly overrated their impacts**. As we talked about on this thread several years ago when Brewer/Korver/Bogans/Watson were signed, they weren't exactly celebrated or praised as brilliant acquisitions at the time, but the roles worked and the team was greater than the sum of the parts. It's happening again with this group - Butler, Bellinelli, and Robinson*** have all fit it nicely after some initial struggles. Thibs is just a great f'in coach; now we need to see him work his magic in a playoff series against a better/favored team.

**Asik is a different story. He's a legit talent they lost, and it's a damn shame Jerry's cheapness won out. The minutes the Bulls got from him the last couple of years were really a luxury, but he could have been a difference maker in the playoffs this year and in the future.
***Watson would have been just fine and would likely be outperforming Hinrich. That wasn't a cheap move for the Bulls, and at best they're breaking even.
   717. madvillain Posted: January 26, 2013 at 12:48 AM (#4355315)
That's a great tweet Moses, nailed it.

JR is cheap but how good are the guys he has put in charge? Asik, Butler, Mirotic, Gibson, Nate Rob, etc have all been to borrow a phrase from Lloyd Carr: tremendous acquisitions. Also, they didn't overthink the Rose verse Beasley thing which many a dumber franchise might have.

Then they took a chance on Thibs and it worked.

It's a bit sickening to realize how good they could be with deep pockets though, or at least how much easier they'd make it on GarPax and Thibs.

I am fast becoming a Jimmy Butler fan boy


Deng getting injured has been perhaps the biggest "blessing in disguise" development of this season. Now Deng doesn't have to play 40+ anymore. Thibs has zero excuse not to up Butler to 20 so minutes a game, 15 at SF and 5 at sg or so.

I'm with Moses, just bench Hamilton until like game 3 of the playoffs. Then he'll be awesome.
   718. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 26, 2013 at 08:07 AM (#4355362)
In the past 2 years Kobe Bryant went from being a guy I hated more than any other NBA player ever except maybe MJ and Chris Duhon to a guy I really liked. In the past month, @kobebryant has made Kobe Bryant start to challenge LeBron as my favorite player in the league.
   719. PJ Martinez Posted: January 26, 2013 at 11:17 AM (#4355401)
Also, they didn't overthink the Rose verse Beasley thing which many a dumber franchise might have.

I don't know about that. Remember the rumors that Pat Riley wasn't even going to take Beasley second, because he didn't like his attitude (he was going to take Mayor instead, supposedly, as I recall)? In hindsight, it seems like the red flags with Beasley were plenty bright.
   720. John M. Perkins Posted: January 26, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4355436)
So Splitter is 5th in the NBA in WS/48?


Splitter is first in career WS/48 of all players drafted in 2007. You know, the year Oden (3rd in WS/48) was drafted ahead of some Seattle draftee who is 2nd in WS/48.
With playing time, Splitter is only 16th in WS, trying to catch Aaron Brooks who has played 4810 more minutes.
   721. John M. Perkins Posted: January 26, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4355437)
Worst career PER in history?
Aron Baynes, 00:00 PT; 1 TO.
   722. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 26, 2013 at 01:17 PM (#4355484)
I don't know about that. Remember the rumors that Pat Riley wasn't even going to take Beasley second, because he didn't like his attitude (he was going to take Mayor instead, supposedly, as I recall)? In hindsight, it seems like the red flags with Beasley were plenty bright.

But, Riley did take him. So I'm not sure that refutes his point.
   723. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 26, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4355506)
Jason Collins last night: 13 minutes, 0-1 shooting, 0 points, 0 reb, 0 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, 1 TO, 4 fouls
   724. rr Posted: January 26, 2013 at 06:18 PM (#4355645)
challenge LeBron as my favorite player in the league.

I liked James' doing the full bearhug celebration with the little tubby guy who made the halfcourt hook for 75K.
   725. Booey Posted: January 26, 2013 at 08:56 PM (#4355718)
Jason Collins last night: 13 minutes, 0-1 shooting, 0 points, 0 reb, 0 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, 1 TO, 4 fouls


Sounds like his brother's typical stat line when Jarron used to start for the Jazz (k, not really).

I always find it amusing whenever players put up numbers that I could duplicate.
   726. The District Attorney Posted: January 26, 2013 at 09:23 PM (#4355731)
if there is only going to be one Grizzly, it should be Gasol and not Randolph, so I would be fine making that trade. Randolph is important and is having a fine season, but the Grizzlies win because they are either the best or second-best defense in the NBA. The reason that is true is because of Gasol.
Anyone hear the Simmons/Jalen Rose podcast from a couple weeks back, where they "drafted" the top 20 or so NBA players? I think Jalen took Z-Bo #9, and Simmons was angry that Jalen "stole his pick". It was kinda weird.
   727. Maxwn Posted: January 26, 2013 at 11:56 PM (#4355785)
Anyone hear the Simmons/Jalen Rose podcast from a couple weeks back, where they "drafted" the top 20 or so NBA players? I think Jalen took Z-Bo #9, and Simmons was angry that Jalen "stole his pick". It was kinda weird.

Yeah that's too high. I think Randolph now gets a bit more credit than he deserves for the Grizzlies success because a)he's the most well-known of their players, b)he did give them an identity when he first got here, and c)he was such a bad ass when they first popped on the scene in '10 in that series against the Spurs. He's still pretty good and certainly isn't a bad pick for the ASG, but I'd rather lose him than Gasol without a doubt, and honestly he might be less important to them than Conley at this point.

Actually I know I'd rather lose him than Conley because Conley's backup is Jerryd Bayless, whereas they'd just replace Z-Bo with Darrell Arthur and Rudy playing some 4.

If a Grizzly is showing up in a top 20 type list at all, it should be Marc Gasol. Elite defensive centers don't grow on trees, especially ones like Gasol with a wide-range of offensive skills.
   728. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4355920)
There's a certain sad (if you're a Celtics or Lakers fan) symmetry in today's ABC games: BOS/MIA (1 pm), LAL/OKC (3:30). Expecting two blowouts.
   729. bigboy1234 Posted: January 27, 2013 at 01:06 PM (#4355947)
If Dwight is playing, which he should be, I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers somehow beat OKC today. Yeah, I said it. And will likely regret it.
   730. bob gee Posted: January 27, 2013 at 01:27 PM (#4355960)
the knicks shooting looked awful last night against the sixers. was fun to watch.
   731. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4355980)
Rondo out. Getting an MRI for a hyperextended knee, apparently.
   732. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2013 at 02:45 PM (#4355995)
@DavidBaumann33 Solid #NBA source tells me the Boston @Celtics are fearing a possible torn ACL for Rajon #Rondo. Results from MRI coming soon. Updates ASAP.
   733. rr Posted: January 27, 2013 at 02:54 PM (#4356001)
The Lakers' season Pace factor is 94.6 (3rd in the NBA); against Utah, it was 87.7. They have to keep doing that if they hope to smell .500, and they obviously have to do it if they want to have a chance today.

I hope Rondo is all right. I don't like the guy, obviously, but everybody loses out when quality players get hurt and miss time.
   734. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4356003)
Weird that some random Florida sports radio guy would be getting that tip. But he does seem awfully confident.

Edit: Maybe someone with the Heat heard that and passed it along to him? I suppose that's possible.
   735. rr Posted: January 27, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4356004)
The Lakers' season Pace factor is 94.6 (3rd in the NBA); against Utah, it was 87.7. They have to keep doing that if they hope to smell .500, and they obviously have to do it if they want to have a chance today.

I hope Rondo is all right. I don't like the guy, obviously, but everybody loses out when quality players get hurt and miss time.
   736. rr Posted: January 27, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4356006)
Sorry for the double post. Computer issue.
   737. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2013 at 03:10 PM (#4356014)
@SeanDeveney I'm no doctor, but an MRI on someone w a hyperextended knee to check for a torn ACL doesn't mean he has a torn ACL. That's why they do MRIs.
   738. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4356031)
Rondo tore his ACL per Doris Burke on ABC.
   739. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4356032)
Torn ACL for Rondo just confirmed by Doris Burke.

EDIT: Coke.
   740. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 27, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4356033)
Confirmed: Rondo's ACL is torn.
EDIT: Also Coke.
   741. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4356036)
@CelticsHub To reiterate earlier observation, Rondo likely played at least final two minutes of Hawks loss with torn ACL. He is tough as nails.

He got a triple-double, too (his second in a row).

Edit: That said, seems like maybe he somehow tore it today? That's not what people are reporting, but by all accounts he seemed to be moving normally after the Hawks game and was a very late scratch today.
   742. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: January 27, 2013 at 03:57 PM (#4356043)
The Nuggets blew out Sacramento last night and are now tied with Golden State for the 5th spot. They have their next 5 games at home, then the next 3 road games are Cleveland, Boston, and Toronto. I thought they could catch Memphis by the end of the month, but the Grizzlies seem to be pulling out of their funk.
Ty Lawson threw up 23 in a quarter 10 days ago on 8-8 shooting. He had 26 in 25 minutes last night on 11-15 shooting (4-5 from 3). The Nuggets had 23 assists in the 1st half alone.
   743. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4356055)
The Lakers' season Pace factor is 94.6 (3rd in the NBA); against Utah, it was 87.7. They have to keep doing that if they hope to smell .500, and they obviously have to do it if they want to have a chance today.


Kobe did a great job running the offense. He's one of the last players I'd expect to say dominated offensively with only 14 points, but he completely took over and got everyone involved. By the end even I was kind of pulling for him to get the triple double.

On the Jazz side, I'm getting fed up with Corbin not finding any more PT for the young guys. There's a lot of talk about young players having to earn their PT, but Hayward is playing better than ever (last night's turnovers included)and far better than the other wings and is getting less PT, while Favors is still the Jazz best defender and showing more moves on offense and is getting the same PT.
   744. bigboy1234 Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4356059)
Heat about to lose to the Rondo-less Celtics, sad. Amazing they aren't a better team than they are.

Edit-Maybe not, Ray Ray just hit a huge three on a terrible turnover by Boston, 1 point game.
   745. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:29 PM (#4356060)
Fitting that Ray would do that. The reason Miami isn't better than they are is that they're small -- they're a really poor rebounding team.

By the way, this appears to be the play on which Rondo was injured.
   746. bigboy1234 Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:32 PM (#4356061)
I actually loved the Chris Andersen signing the Heat made, too bad they refuse to play him.
   747. bigboy1234 Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:33 PM (#4356062)
Lebron was the saving three, holy crap. OT Time.
   748. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4356063)
That Lebron, he's pretty clutch.
   749. bigboy1234 Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:40 PM (#4356068)
Jason Terry trying to guard Lebron, too funny.
   750. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:41 PM (#4356069)
Apparently, Lebron's going to eat the Celtics all by himself.
   751. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:42 PM (#4356070)
This lebron guy looks pretty okay...
   752. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:43 PM (#4356071)
Apparently, Lebron's going to eat the Celtics all by himself.

Wouldn't be the first time.
   753. bigboy1234 Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:47 PM (#4356074)
Surprised Wade didn't take the shot at first when Pierce jumped into him, probably would have gotten the call.
   754. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:52 PM (#4356077)
Not sure if I'm judging results instead of process, but has wade looked surprisingly mechanical the last few minutes?
   755. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:53 PM (#4356078)
If the Heat lose this game, it's on Wade. That's some really poor decision-making by him.... and wow. James. What a pass.
   756. The District Attorney Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:55 PM (#4356081)
Bill Simmons @BillSimmons
Just a death blow for the Celtics. Probably kills next season, too. No way they can keep KG and PP, have to blow it up now.
   757. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:57 PM (#4356083)
Pierce to the Clippers for Bledsoe, Butler, and Odom. Who says no?
   758. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:58 PM (#4356086)
The Clippers do.
   759. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 27, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4356087)
pj

not a basketball person by any stretch but paul pierce is a 1000 years old no? why would htat have value to a team already very good?
   760. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4356093)
1st Overtime Summary
2:00 Dwyane Wade misses layup
0:00 Dwyane Wade misses 18-foot jumper

2nd Overtime Summary
4:28 Dwyane Wade personal foul (Paul Pierce draws the foul)
3:29 Dwyane Wade offensive Charge (Paul Pierce draws the foul)
2:24 Dwyane Wade misses 5-foot Running Jumper
1:37 Dwyane Wade personal foul (Leandro Barbosa draws the foul)
0:37 Dwyane Wade misses Running Jumper

This actually makes me giggle.
   761. booond Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4356094)
Clippers can't trade Bledsoe as long as CP is made of glass.
   762. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:10 PM (#4356096)
It'd be a win-now move, obviously. If CP goes down the Clippers aren't winning the title anyway. Bledsoe's playing fewer minutes right now than Butler is -- and Pierce, who's putting up an 18.5 PER* and can play solid defense, is a huge upgrade on Butler (and at least a moderate upgrade on Barnes, who is playing perhaps unsustainably over his head so far this year on the offensive end).

* Only Clippers with higher PERs: Paul, Griffin, and... Bledsoe.

Edit: Harvey, it's the same logic as trading, say, a really good and promising young set-up reliever for a dependable older pitcher who would slot third in your rotation and thus improve your chances of winning the Series this year. A risky move, one that could come back to bite you, but which might also earn you a title.
   763. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:11 PM (#4356098)
Clippers can't trade Bledsoe as long as CP is made of glass.

Not so much glass as it is that his knee is a ticking timebomb.

That last play by MIA was awful.
   764. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:17 PM (#4356103)
pj

well, i hate those moves in baseball.

   765. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:22 PM (#4356110)
That last play by MIA was awful.

indeed. apparently, movement was not part of its design...
   766. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:32 PM (#4356115)
It'd be a win-now move, obviously. If CP goes down the Clippers aren't winning the title anyway. Bledsoe's playing fewer minutes right now than Butler is -- and Pierce, who's putting up an 18.5 PER* and can play solid defense, is a huge upgrade on Butler (and at least a moderate upgrade on Barnes, who is playing perhaps unsustainably over his head so far this year on the offensive end).
If CP goes down and the Clips can't win without him, they're certainly not going to win by adding old, expensive Pierce to a position where they've got a ton of guys while weakening the one position they're weak in right now, PG. For the life of me, I can't imagine the Clippers even considering this trade for more than a heartbeat.
   767. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:34 PM (#4356118)
A little less MWP isolations, please.
   768. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:42 PM (#4356124)
766: Point is, the Clippers are not winning without Paul, period, whether he's flanked by Pierce or by Bledsoe. I think they'd have a better shot at the title this year with Pierce than with Bledsoe, but it's not ridiculous to disagree. And then, of course, there's the fact that Barnes is playing well and Grant Hill just came back. So sure, perhaps they wouldn't consider it at all.
   769. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:44 PM (#4356125)
Serious question. Watching this clip. What evidence exists that Rajon Rondo is an elite player? A cursory glance at PER, WS, WS/48 makes it seem like he's a good/very good player, not great or even necessarily ll-Star level. I get the same impression looking at his traditional stats. Then, for a PG given so much credit for making the game easier for others playing on a team with pretty good jump shooters the BOS O pretty consistently sucks. So...where's the evidence?
   770. Publius Publicola Posted: January 27, 2013 at 05:57 PM (#4356131)
What evidence exists that Rajon Rondo is an elite player?


His play against the Heat in the playoffs last May was very impressive. He dominated a couple of those games.

Then, for a PG given so much credit for making the game easier for others playing on a team with pretty good jump shooters the BOS O pretty consistently sucks. So...where's the evidence?


Let me disagree with this a little. They don't really have great jump shooters. Rondo gets Bass all kinds of wide open 15 ft looks and Bass must miss 2/3 of them. Not Rondo's fault. Same with Green. He gets open looks but is inconsistent in making them. Pierce has lost a little on his shot. I don't think he's all that good at it anymore. Terry gets his shots off the dribble in the seams so a guy like Rondo is sort of irrelevant to Terry. Bradley is a pretty good shooter but he's short and has to be wide open to get his shot off. He can't jump shoot off the dribble. That just isn't in his arsenal. Barbosa is Barbosa. He can shoot you out of a game as fast as he can shoot you back into one. And he relies solely on his own dribble to get his shots. He's incapable of working a two man set. The only guy you could say is a good jump shooter is Garnett and Garnett is having a good year shooting the ball, as he always has playing with Rondo.
   771. rr Posted: January 27, 2013 at 06:02 PM (#4356135)
Props to the Evil Green Men for the pride-W. Lakers look to me like they won't make it; OKC will start hitting more shots, but the Lakers are doing what they can. I have tried to cut Howard some slack all year, but 1-8 on FTs in a game in which every point matters is unacceptable. Drag about Rondo.
   772. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 06:05 PM (#4356138)
Yeah, I think Rondo's play in some big, high-profile games has a lot to do with that reputation, fair or not. He put up a 22 PER in the playoffs last year, higher than any of his regular-season marks. (And because he's not a volume shooter, he is arguably underrated by PER.) He was once a plus defender, which counted in his favor, too, but I'm not sure that's been the case for a while. (Boston was the best defensive team in the league last year, though, so maybe he still gets some credit for that.) Also he's pretty flashy when he's on, which also bolsters his superstar reputation, even if it doesn't mean much w/r/t productivity.

He also led the league in assists last year and was leading the league this year, too. And I believe he has gotten triple-doubles more regularly than anyone currently playing, including LeBron. For whatever that's worth. (Obviously it's at least a sign of his above-average rebounding ability and propensity for big assist numbers.)

It's a fair question, though. I know some diehard Celtics fans who think he takes almost as much off the table as he puts on it. Will be interesting to see how the Celtics do without him -- though, of course, Ainge may change the team radically in his absence.
   773. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 27, 2013 at 06:32 PM (#4356153)
How about KG to the Thunder? They've got Toronto's first rounder and a couple talented rookies who are barely playing as trade chips. Maybe Toronto's #1, Perkins, Maynor, and Boston's choice of Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones for Garnett? OKC wouldn't be taking on salary because KG only makes $3M/yr more than Perkins for the same length of time. A lineup of Westbrook, Martin/Sefolosha, Durant, Ibaka, and KG, with Collison backing up the two frontcourt spots, would seem to make them the clear favorite barring injury.

Could the Celtics get a better deal from anyone else?
   774. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 06:34 PM (#4356155)
Houston seems like another good landing spot for Garnett. Not sure what their best plausible package would be. What's their draft-pick situation?
   775. smileyy Posted: January 27, 2013 at 06:38 PM (#4356158)
Perkins would give the Celtics back that mojo back they've been missing since they dealt him.
   776. rr Posted: January 27, 2013 at 06:42 PM (#4356163)
Houston


Ainge and McHale: Back in Business ;-
   777. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 27, 2013 at 07:01 PM (#4356166)
The best argument against rondo's worth is the relatively weak ortgs put up by Boston in recent years, no? (This yr, 27th in ortg)
   778. bob gee Posted: January 27, 2013 at 07:05 PM (#4356167)
kobe sure looks like he's looking for anyone (including himself) to get high % shots, rather than feeling he's the only one who can put it in and will shoot it from wherever he can.
   779. Booey Posted: January 27, 2013 at 07:05 PM (#4356168)
On the Jazz side, I'm getting fed up with Corbin not finding any more PT for the young guys. There's a lot of talk about young players having to earn their PT, but Hayward is playing better than ever (last night's turnovers included)and far better than the other wings and is getting less PT, while Favors is still the Jazz best defender and showing more moves on offense and is getting the same PT.


Agreed. I like Foye, but he shouldn't be getting more PT than Hayward. And I've come around on Carroll a little, but it still bugs me whenever he gets more minutes than Favors. Yet I still think my biggest problem with Corbin is that he keeps screwing around with Tinsley and Watson at PG rather than moving Foye over, which would free up the starting SG spot for Hayward.

I talked to my brother about this a few weeks back and we both agreed that the Jazz just need to make a decision as to who they want to keep as their core going forward and stick with those players. I don't know if our future at PG is Mo or Foye or Burks or someone else, but I do know that it's not 34 year old journeymen like Tinsley or Watson.

The current Jazz are a 45ish win team and a first round sacrificial lamb. I don't think management should be content with that. The only way I see them making a leap in the next few years is if some of their youngens develop into better players than they currently are, and they're not going to do that sitting on the bench.
   780. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 27, 2013 at 07:06 PM (#4356170)
Houston seems like another good landing spot for Garnett. Not sure what their best plausible package would be. What's their draft-pick situation?

Houston has no draft picks, but the Rockets can offer cap/tax relief. They're about $7M under the cap I believe. They could offer Chandler Parsons, a couple other cheap young players (Terrence Jones, Marcus Morris, Greg Smith, Sports Guy favorite Royce White, etc.), and no significant long-term salary commitments for KG.
   781. Into the Void Posted: January 27, 2013 at 07:07 PM (#4356171)
Who finally explained to Kobe that the rules allow him to pass the ball?
   782. PJ Martinez Posted: January 27, 2013 at 07:23 PM (#4356178)
The best argument against rondo's worth is the relatively weak ortgs put up by Boston in recent years, no? (This yr, 27th in ortg)

That's certainly where the conversation starts. Question is how much of the blame goes to Rondo, how much to other players, how much to "fit," and how much to Doc. Since '08 the Celtics have built their offense largely around two-point jump shots, which is generally a terrible idea. And while they were a top-six offense in '08, they've since hovered between 18th and 27th in the league.
   783. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 27, 2013 at 08:03 PM (#4356190)
Only one club has an ortg above the league average (and not by much) but their pythag w/l is below .500 - name them.

Same is true for three teams with above average defenses - Boston, Minnesota, and ....?
(This one shocked me.)
   784. Publius Publicola Posted: January 27, 2013 at 08:13 PM (#4356193)
Who finally explained to Kobe that the rules allow him to pass the ball?


LOL. I was thinking the exact same thing. Which begs one to ask why he didn't figure this out before. Gasol looked like a completely different player.
   785. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2013 at 08:28 PM (#4356199)
That's certainly where the conversation starts. Question is how much of the blame goes to Rondo, how much to other players, how much to "fit," and how much to Doc. Since '08 the Celtics have built their offense largely around two-point jump shots, which is generally a terrible idea. And while they were a top-six offense in '08, they've since hovered between 18th and 27th in the league.
This is why I don't think the Celtics will suffer as much as everyone thinks they will with Rondo out. They'll need more minutes out of KG and Pierce will have play point-forward, but this isn't stuff these guys can't handle. They still have a ball hawk at the first guard position in Bradley, they still have athletes in Lee and Green and scoring with Terry and Barbosa. They were 20-23 and the 8th best team in the East with Rondo. I don't think things will change dramatically without him.*

*If Bynum returns for Philly and actually makes an impact, that could all change, of course.
   786. RollingWave Posted: January 27, 2013 at 09:24 PM (#4356229)
Rockets still seem to be at least 1-2 season away from being really good, going all in now for a Kevin Garnett this year seems to be ill-advised at best.

They have looked either awesome or terrible with very little in between this year, either way they're still pretty prone to turn overs (Harden especially so, though that's partly because every team double / triple team him pretty much every play. but that also speak of the general lack of a half court plan past "pass it to Harden and all wait for the corner 3" ) and their half court game is range between inconsistent to terrible.

I'm not an expert on this, but shouldn't they try to run more plays off Lin's pick and roll so that teams will ease off Harden? Lin has embodied the Rocket's inconsistency a lot but certainly still showed a few games that he can score a boatload when you play off him as your main go to guy.





   787. thok Posted: January 27, 2013 at 10:02 PM (#4356249)
Who finally explained to Kobe that the rules allow him to pass the ball?


I find it strange that the Lakers are better off with Kobe at point guard and Nash at shooting guard, but that's just me.

Sports Guy favorite Royce White


Royce White seems like he'd be a lot of trouble to get in a regular season trade; you'd basically have to develop a plan to handle his anxiety issues in a matter of days.
   788. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 27, 2013 at 10:07 PM (#4356252)
783: good O was Toronto, the other good d was Dc (6th in the league!?)
   789. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 27, 2013 at 10:12 PM (#4356255)
Melo with 42. That last bucket for the lead, unstoppable.

EDIT: Josh Smith's 3 wasn't even close. Had to take it, but... eww.
   790. Publius Publicola Posted: January 27, 2013 at 10:18 PM (#4356257)
Smith is the dumbest starting player in the league. Between the backcourt violation, the missed free throw and the offensive foul, he singlehandedly lost that for the Hawks
   791. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: January 27, 2013 at 10:23 PM (#4356259)
Melo's previous career high single season 3 point FG total is 95. He's at 97 so far this year. He's also shooting 39% from 3 since being traded to the Knicks.
   792. Manny Coon Posted: January 28, 2013 at 01:25 AM (#4356343)
Only one club has an ortg above the league average (and not by much) but their pythag w/l is below .500 - name them.

Same is true for three teams with above average defenses - Boston, Minnesota, and ....?


The Wizards are 6th in defense. Their offense was just beyond dreadful for Wall came back. Wall should help them a ton if he can continue to have a very high usage even if his efficiency isn't great, even mediocre efficiency at high volume will help them a lot. Nene's minutes have picked up lately as well, which should also help. They could finish pretty strong, they are 6-3 with Wall playing.
   793. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 28, 2013 at 01:42 AM (#4356354)
Clips break their four game losing streak. Blake Griffin over the past five game: 23.2 PPG on 57.5% shooting, 6.8 assists, 9 rebounds. He's developing a scary all-around game to go with his freaky athleticism.

CP3 being out has actually exposed the Clippers defense more than anything else. Before the 4-game skid, they had a DRating of 100.5. During the skid, it was 114.1. Brutal. Apparently, CP3 doesn't just quarterback the offense, he quarterbacks everything.
   794. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 28, 2013 at 01:50 AM (#4356358)
On the Wizards: Bradley Beal's putting up 15.7, 3, and 2.5 in his last 14 games, and shooting 45% in that stretch, including 50% from beyond the arc. In his first 26 games, he was shooting 35.3% from the field and 27% from the arc. Wall-Beal could potentially be very, very good, given health and expected improvements in their games over time.
   795. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 28, 2013 at 03:09 AM (#4356381)
How about KG to the Thunder?


The deal KG just signed has a no-trade clause. He's talked openly about retiring as a Celtic, and he doesn't seem like the type to not mean that. I suppose he could be talked into some trades, but who knows what. Shopping him seems risky and somewhat likely to blow up.
   796. rr Posted: January 28, 2013 at 03:49 AM (#4356398)
As much as Ainge is a shake-things-up guy, it is hard for me to picture either Garnett or Pierce being traded this year during the season. Maybe in the off-season.
   797. rr Posted: January 28, 2013 at 04:00 AM (#4356403)
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/35614/lakers-rise-as-dantonis-offense-ditched

==

“This isn’t necessarily any offense,” Nash said after the Lakers’ 105-96 win over the Oklahoma City Thunder on Sunday. “This is bringing the ball down, calling over a pick and playing the game and because we have good players on the floor, when (Bryant) distributes we can make them pay for leaning too much to Kobe. When they lean too much to us, he makes them pay.”

"I think we played easy," D'Antoni said. "Everybody can contribute and Kobe starts it, just sharing the ball and he hasn't forced a shot."

Even more efficient than the Lakers offense as a whole has been Bryant's individual output. He's 15-for-22 (68.2 percent) in the last two games.

D'Antoni was asked if Bryant can keep this up.

"Oh yeah," D'Antoni said. "This is easier than the other way. This is much easier, I think. This is great. I hope he's having fun, that's the biggest thing and understanding this is the way to go.

If you think of the only other part of the season when the Lakers looked this good, it was their 4-1 record under interim coach Bernie Bickerstaff. The reason they looked so good under “Bernie Ball” was because the veteran coach basically rolled the ball out and told them to trust their instincts. They’re doing that again now even better because that air-it-out meeting in Memphis seems to have built trust in one another to go along with those instincts.

D’Antoni’s been praised by Bryant himself as an “offensive genius,” but he’s had to sacrifice his ego to realize his system wasn’t ideal for this group, just like Bryant’s had to cool down his individual scoring, and Nash has had to deal with not always having the ball in his hands for the first time since Jason Kidd was his teammate, and Howard has had to adjust to less shots, and Pau Gasol has had to accept coming off the bench.

“There is an adjustment but I think the key for us is to not look at the past and how we played in the past individually and say, ‘Hey, I had success doing it this way,’” Nash said.

Just like D’Antoni has had to bend from how he’s coached in the past.

==
   798. bob gee Posted: January 28, 2013 at 08:31 AM (#4356416)
786 - RE: lin and pnr - i think there are 2, maybe 3 ppl who haven't figure out lin should get more pnrs. mchale, sampson, and maybe morey.

rockets fans, fans/haters of lin, broadcasters, reporters, nearly everyone agrees if lin has the ball at the top, there need to be more pnr's set.

and yeah, a few reasons why that's a good idea are:

-> lin works much better off pnr.
-> teams can't collapse on harden when 2 guys are working on lin and center.
-> harden can relax for some period of time instead of having such a large number of minutes where he's doing everything,
-> spot up shooters (parsons, douglas, delfino, maybe morris) will get easier looks because their man has to sometimes go down low if lin penetrates / center gets the ball.
-> whoever's guarding lin has to work much harder on defense.

   799. steagles Posted: January 28, 2013 at 11:37 AM (#4356501)
Hardwood Paroxysm ?@HPbasketball

Personally? I'm terrified of Boston without Rondo. They're a worse team, but remember THE WORSE THEY ARE THE MORE THEY WIN. #playoffs2012
   800. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 28, 2013 at 12:35 PM (#4356535)
flip...
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