Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, January 02, 2013

OT NBA Monthly Thread—January 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the fiscal cliff and Civil War generals.

baudib Posted: January 02, 2013 at 01:16 AM | 1049 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 11 pages  1 2 3 4 5 6 >  Last ›
   1. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 02, 2013 at 09:32 AM (#4336712)
It is a New Year, so how have things gone for your club?

The Wolves are about where I thought they would be, with injury and recovery from injury being the biggest story thus far. The goal the rest of the season is to get/stay healthy and firmly establish how all the pieces fit together. For all the crap Khan got over the years (much of uit deserved) I think he has put together a very interesting team on paper, that could fit together really really well.

Goal: Make playoffs.
Stretch Goal: 4th to 6th seed, first round victory.
   2. morineko Posted: January 02, 2013 at 09:48 AM (#4336723)
At this point the most "interesting" thing about the Wolves is how they can get one guy off of an injury and someone else goes down with the flu/poke in the eye/back trouble/surprise! knee injury in the same game. I'd love to see how all the pieces fit together, but they won't be able to get the pieces back together until March.
   3. Bitter Mouse Posted: January 02, 2013 at 10:36 AM (#4336755)
Hey now, it is a new year, a time for optimism (that's what I am going with anyway). Besides not all of the injuries are a surprise, Roy's injuries were sadly predictable.
   4. morineko Posted: January 02, 2013 at 11:01 AM (#4336771)
I'm a Brewers fan, so my default mode is not set on optimism, it's more set on "hey so the entire rotation is broken, that's why they have guys up from AA starting this season" and "what's .500?" It's no surprise that my favored NBA team has the same problem.

Roy was a risk, but nobody expected Budinger AND the guy they signed to replace the injured players becoming injured.
   5. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:03 PM (#4336820)
Goal: Make playoffs.
Stretch Goal: 4th to 6th seed, first round victory.
As a Laker fan, these are my goals, too.
   6. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:03 PM (#4336821)
If you told me that the C's and Lakers would have nearly identical records about 30 games in, I would have assumed the Celtics had gotten off to a better than expected start. Records aside, though, the Celtics have been handily outscored on the season (unlike the Lakers) and may not have the talent to get out of the first round of the playoffs (perhaps unlike the Lakers, though being in the West makes that a taller order for them).

Curious what Ainge will do if the Celtics have a losing record on January 15, which seems fairly likely.


The C's talk has pretty much been non-existent in the threads this season. Especially compared to the Lakers high-profile troubles. What is the problem with the C's? Age? The annual regular season blues (aka turn it on in the playoffs)? I wasn't buying the C's in the preseason, despite the talk of the upgraded depth, but have barely seen them play.
   7. puck Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:13 PM (#4336832)
As to the 2013 Lakers, they are 15-16 and the next five games are:

"at" LAC

Do the Lakers and Clippers have permanent locker rooms, with a 3rd locker room for the road team? So for a Lakers-Clippers game, both teams are in their usual home locker rooms? Are there separate player parking lots? I wonder if they would even know it's a "road" game until the season ticket holders show up.
   8. Booey Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4336843)
"'Cause we're old as s---," said the 34-year-old Bryant when asked why a lack of energy has been a problem for L.A. all season.


I love how crotchety Kobe is becoming in his old age. Maybe I just wasn't paying close enough attention before, but I don't remember him being quite so blunt all the time when he was younger. I really think he's turned into one of the most consistently entertaining interviews in the league.
   9. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:32 PM (#4336856)
For the Bulls

Goal: Survive until Rose comes back.
Stretch Goal: Win division. Do actual damage in playoffs.

They started worse than I expected, bounced back and played as good as I'd hoped, and now are playing worse than I could have imagined (last 4.5 games - this slump actually started in that Knicks game when they almost blew another 20+ point lead). They're still in great shape to win the Central, because the Pacers and Bucks aren't any better. Rose is traveling with the team this week to Florida, so that's going to get the fans in a lather. Still sounds like All Star break is about when he'll be back.
   10. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:36 PM (#4336865)
Just popping in from lurking this thread to say I'm enjoying a world where the Clippers and Warriors are better than the Lakers. It feels good, it feels right.

edit: I should add that I don't think Stern will let this stand and will figure out some way to sabotage the Warriors. I've been watching Day of the Jackal, the Manchurian Candidate, etc. to get an idea of what he might be up to.
   11. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4336874)
Your mom feels good, feels right, too.
   12. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:49 PM (#4336880)
Your mom feels good, feels right, too.

I hope so. I want mom to be happy!
   13. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:51 PM (#4336881)
We all do, man. We all do.
   14. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:53 PM (#4336884)
The Wizards still suck I guess. I suppose I should trying going to a game since I can sit about three rows from courtside for $15 on stubhub.

John Wall is still hurt, I see.
   15. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 02, 2013 at 12:57 PM (#4336894)
I love that bit.

Donald Sterling's son Scott, dead at 32, drug overdose.
   16. jmurph Posted: January 02, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4336964)
The Wizards still suck I guess. I suppose I should trying going to a game since I can sit about three rows from courtside for $15 on stubhub.


In case anyone is wondering, this is not actually an exaggeration. The only downside is that the "game experience" is the worst thing I've ever encountered in sports.
   17. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: January 02, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4336973)
Suns are about where I thought they'd be. They're competing, but the talent just isn't there. (The talent is sort of there, actually; the five-man unit of Dragic-Brown-Dudley-Scola-Gortat would be an awesome bench.)

Reason for optimism: Lakers are worse than expected, and I'm holding out hope for a second lottery pick.
   18. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: January 02, 2013 at 01:57 PM (#4336977)
Javale's 3 last night may be my highlight for 2013. Will be VERY hard to top.
   19. Booey Posted: January 02, 2013 at 02:21 PM (#4337001)
I should add that I don't think Stern will let this stand and will figure out some way to sabotage the Warriors.


The Warriors usually figure out a way to do this themselves. They don't need Stern's help.

Normally I'm happy when teams that usually suck finally have some success, but it's hard for me to get behind the Warriors when their shameless tanking last year cost the Jazz a draft pick. I hate rooting for players to get hurt, but if you fake injuries to weasel your way into a draft pick you don't deserve, it would almost seem karmic if your season came crashing down the following year due to some real injuries...
   20. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: January 02, 2013 at 02:25 PM (#4337005)
Here are the Doug Moe Plus/Minus rankings. (Road wins - home losses). Somewhere between 30-40 games, these become less predictive as schedules even out.
SAN +10
DEN +7
GOL +7
NYK +6
OKC +6
MIA +5
ATL +4
MEM +3
MIN +2
UTA +2
LAC +1
MIL +1
POR +1

Right now, these are a bit misleading, the Clippers and Golden State, for example, have much better road records than Denver, but the Nuggets have a +7 having played twice as many games on the road as at home.
Denver should be able to go 12-5, 13-4 in January, that's with at least 1 home loss. That would put them at 32-20, and probably around the 5th seed.

All that said, as a fan I've been a little disappointed so far in their progress. Koufas and McGee have made a very solid C combo (18 pts/11 rb). Kenneth Faried has definitely stepped up (15/12). He needs to continue to work on low post defense, but looks like he can go 16/12 for years to come. Corey Brewer has become a consistent energy guy off the bench, good defense and good enough offense.
The disappointments:
- Ty Lawson and Andre Iguodala have been horribly inconsistent on offense. Iggy some games just can't even hit the backboard, and Lawson seems to need to be constantly reminded he can take over games when he wants to with his speed
- Gallinari has been consistently off in his shooting, only 40% from the field
- As a team, they are too easily intimidated on the road. Especially when Faried is fully engaged, they can be a physically imposing defensive team that should carry them when they can't shoot.

Iguodala at times looks like he thinks he needs to be a 20 point scorer for the Nuggets to resign him long-term. I think if he can settle down go back to being a "stat-line filler" (14 pts, 5 RB, 4 Asst, 2 steals) and do it efficiently, Lawson and Gallinari can settle into their roles (one has to be a 20-point scorer), and the Nuggets can still become a very good team this year.
   21. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 02, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4337023)
Javale's 3 last night may be my highlight for 2013. Will be VERY hard to top.

I love that Koufas knows it's going in and raises his fist right after McGee releases it.
   22. Jimmy P Posted: January 02, 2013 at 06:33 PM (#4337298)
Moses, our teams play each other tonight. How's Groce looking to you?
   23. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 02, 2013 at 06:48 PM (#4337321)
Noah is out tonight vs. Orlando. Considering how the Bulls have looked lately, that's devestating news (now watch, the Bulls will win by 30 as Nazr Mohammed scores 50).

---

Jimmy, so far, so good. I'm not going to go overboard with my like of him, considering how things went with Weber his first 2 years. Just like then though, the current roster seems perfectly built for the new coach's system (or he's done a helluva job adapting his system to the personnel). Their 3 point shooting has starting regressing the last couple of games, but they're not as reliant on that as it seems since they have multiple guys who can create their own shot or can create for others. Abrams is playing like a poor man's Ty Lawson (when it's on, it's pretty, when he's off it's bad). Paul was pretty bad against Auburn Saturday (but got to the FT line a lot). They have a fatal flaw though, and it's going to be exposed in Big Ten play - they're an awful rebounding team. But back to Groce, I appreciate him because they're fun to watch again. He took a boring team full of athletic shooters and is actually letting them play basketball and not pass-it-around-the-perimeter-for-30-seconds-and-no-driving-allowed-ball. I will not make a final judgment on him for a couple more years though (recruiting is off to a so-so start, but better than Weber's first 5 years).
   24. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 02, 2013 at 06:50 PM (#4337323)
K.C Johnson ?@KCJHoop
RT @NBAPR: CHI at IND game postponed on Dec. 26 rescheduled for Feb. 4 at 7p.m. ET at Bankers Life Fieldhouse.

K.C Johnson ?@KCJHoop
Rescheduled Bulls-Pacers makes six straight road games for Bulls, but 1 in MIL and lots of days off. Shocking back-to-back-to-back for IND.


Wow, the return of the dreaded b2b2b.
   25. baudib Posted: January 02, 2013 at 11:38 PM (#4337541)
Nets crush the Thunder on the road, with Durant getting tossed. Stunning. Didn't watch but caught the postgame show. Comment amused me: "This is what the Nets thought they were getting when they signed Joe Johnson." I laughed at that one. Yeah, everyone thought that Joe Johnson was a regular 11-for-19, 33 point per game guy.

Judging from boxscore, looks like Deron outplayed or at least played Westbrook to a draw, and Westbrook had a good shooting game. 19 points on 12 shots, 13 assists, 2 TOs, 5 steals for Deron.
   26. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: January 02, 2013 at 11:41 PM (#4337549)
Can't remember who the other guy was with the Paul George mancrush, but he's making us look good over the last 20 or so games.
   27. baudib Posted: January 02, 2013 at 11:47 PM (#4337564)
Boxscore oddity of the night: Toronto blows out Portland, with its 2-headed PG monster of Calderon/Lowry combining for 0 points on 0-for-3 shooting, 22 assits. The Raptors shot 53%, 61% on 2s. Terrence Ross hit 6 of 9 3-pointers.
   28. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 02, 2013 at 11:54 PM (#4337580)
I hate college basketball. Just hate it. And every year, I get sucked back in.

Not that the Bulls, who almost blew a 18 point lead in Orlando, are a better option at this point.

Can't remember who the other guy was with the Paul George mancrush, but he's making us look good over the last 20 or so games.

Me. I gotta remind myself how young is he all the time.
   29. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 03, 2013 at 12:06 AM (#4337603)
me too. there's a few more, i think.
   30. steagles Posted: January 03, 2013 at 12:10 AM (#4337605)
Can't remember who the other guy was with the Paul George mancrush, but he's making us look good over the last 20 or so games.
that may have been me, but george isn't going to reach his potential until he becomes a stronger scorer in the paint.


and speaking of mancrushes, jrue holiday just hit his 2nd career triple double. it's not exactly a model of efficiency (14 points on 16 shots, plus 5 turnovers), but he's been big.
   31. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: January 03, 2013 at 12:29 AM (#4337635)
The Raptors have been pretty average since Bargnani went down. I think they are 8-7 in their last 15. I am not sure what that says about the Raptors but I think it says a lot about Bargnani.
   32. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: January 03, 2013 at 12:37 AM (#4337648)
Steph Curry is awesome.
   33. baudib Posted: January 03, 2013 at 12:45 AM (#4337659)
No one really thinks Bargnani is any good.
   34. Into the Void Posted: January 03, 2013 at 02:18 AM (#4337729)
I really don't care what the advanced stats say- there is no ******* way Blake Griffin is the 8th best player in the league. There are at least four PF's in the West playing just as good as him right now (Duncan, Lee, Ibaka, Aldridge) and another two not far behind (Love, Millsap). David Lee is beating Griffin in every significant offensive category right now and no one would even consider Lee a top 20 player. Yeah, Lee is terrible defensively but he absolutely took Griffin to town tonight, not to mention having over twice as many rebounds.
   35. kpelton Posted: January 03, 2013 at 02:50 AM (#4337733)
David Lee is beating Griffin in every significant offensive category right now and no one would even consider Lee a top 20 player.

Blind test! (tm Rob Neyer)

Player       Usg    TS%   Reb%  Ast%    TO%    ORtg
---------------------------------------------------
Player A    .240   .577   16.1   4.3   .129   109.8
Player B    .251   .567   16.0   4.4   .110   109.6 
   36. Into the Void Posted: January 03, 2013 at 03:24 AM (#4337738)
I give up. Why not just say who they are?
   37. Squash Posted: January 03, 2013 at 03:46 AM (#4337739)
Player A    .240   .577   16.1   4.3   .129   109.8
Player B    .251   .567   16.0   4.4   .110   109.6 


Assuming one is Lee and the other is Griffin, I imagine what we draw from this is that David Lee is indeed a top 10 player. Which may at the moment be so - right behind Griffin at #9 in Win Shares on Basketball Ref is ... David Lee. Which even as a Warrior's fan I also find hysterical and probably not true. There are a whole lot of PFs on that top 20 list - 6 by conventional thinking, and that's not including LeBron, Carmelo, and Duncan (if you want to call him a PF). If 9 of the top 20 players in the league are PFs by Win Shares, we're either in the Golden Era of power forwards or perhaps there are some positional adjustments to be made.
   38. baudib Posted: January 03, 2013 at 05:53 AM (#4337743)
I think it's a fluke of calling LeBron and Carmelo PFs. There is a lot of talent gathered at the position, but the weird thing is so many of the best ones are having off seasons: Love, Nowitzki, Garnett, Gasol.
   39. RollingWave Posted: January 03, 2013 at 07:25 AM (#4337745)
Speaking of PFs, it is interesting that the Rocket's have no real PF to speak of, most of their PF are either undersized Center or really just a second SF.

They're an interesting team to watch for many reason, but it seems unlikely that this sort of style would get them past the first round. (though they do have a small chance I guess, given that Memphis seem to have a serious problem of ever winning games in Houston, if they get matched up against the Grizzlies they have a shot)
   40. thok Posted: January 03, 2013 at 08:19 AM (#4337756)
David Lee has basically been Zach Randolph for a while (including the whole being completely unappreciated because he was on perpetually losing teams thing.) That said, power forward does have a high replacement rate.
   41. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 03, 2013 at 10:12 AM (#4337807)
Iggy some games just can't even hit the backboard

Not exactly breaking news to Philly fans. :)
   42. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 03, 2013 at 10:42 AM (#4337819)
Nick Friedell ?@NickFriedell
My Family Feud watching has taken an interesting turn tonight. NBA ref Violet Palmer appeared on show. Not an impressive contestant so far.


Heh.

And btw, NateRob's contract is fully guaranteed for the year now. So that was a whole lot about nothing (and another change to point out Bucher was wrong).
   43. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 03, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4337876)
The C's talk has pretty much been non-existent in the threads this season. Especially compared to the Lakers high-profile troubles. What is the problem with the C's? Age? The annual regular season blues (aka turn it on in the playoffs)? I wasn't buying the C's in the preseason, despite the talk of the upgraded depth, but have barely seen them play.


Oh boy, the Celtics. I have been holding off on talking about the Celtics - for most teams, I don't think we learn too much about what they'll be at playoff time before Christmas, especially with a team like the Celtics, so I've been holding off on making any real judgments on where they stand.

The C's have a bunch of problems:

1) The biggest is team defense with Garnett off the floor. The Celtics allow 99 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor, which would make them a top notch team D - only they allow 114 per 100 when he's on the bench, a number. Basically, when Garnett is on the floor they have the best defense in the NBA, and when he's off, they have the worst by a significant margin. They need him for both the physical things he does on defense as well as getting his teammates in the right place. The guy is still a marvel, but he's 36, and he's not about to start playing more minutes, not in the regular season, anyway. This is the issue I have the most trouble seeing get worked out unless they can somehow trade for a defense/rebounding big.

2) The "depth" they've added has been a mixed bag at best. Terry has been passable at best offensively, and is of course a sieve on D. Courtney Lee has forgotten how to shoot 3s and is a disaster defensively. Sullinger is like a smarter Big Baby, but that also means he gets his shot blocked at the rim a lot for a big man, and he lacks the physicality to D up certain guys. Brandon Bass is shooting 44% (career FG%: 49). And, Jeff Green. One, maybe two of these guys need to show some improvement, either in offensive efficiency or team defense. Or, get traded.

3) Rondo continues to flummox. The fact that he gets to the line 2.5 times per game is unacceptable. In order for them to score enough points to have an average offense (the Celtics path to contention this year was to maintain the top tier defense and nudge the offense up to average somehow), they need Rondo going to the basket more (among other things - but when it's "your team"...).

The hope for the Celtics is the following:
-- Age doesn't seem to be the issue, at least for Pierce and Garnett. Pierce is still a reasonably efficient scorer and a smart, if no longer quite as physically capable (ahem, Gerald Wallace) defender. Garnett is still among the top few defenders in the league and will be able to shoot 18 footers into his 40s. Terry may be on the wane, but he's less important than the other two.

-- Avery Bradley is back. He's not the savior some C's fans have made him out to be, but given the defense they have from their current backcourt outside of Rondo (Terry, Barbosa, and Lee....oof) there's an opportunity to make a significant upgrade. Bradley was also making corner 3s last year, so the hope would be he can simultaneouly upgrade that spot and make Courtney Lee expendable for a...

-- ...trade for a big man who can defend and rebound. Fixing whatever is wrong with the defense needs to be job one, because the Celtics are dead without it. They need someone who can defend inside and keep things reasonable when Garnett is off the court. A little low post scoring wouldn't hurt either, but let's not get greedy, given the Celtics will likely be offering a Courtney Lee pupu platter in return.

-- They've done this before. In 2010, they were a .500 team for the last 2/3 of the season and were a Ron Artest three or so from a title. Last year, they started 15-17 with a less talented roster, and a few months later they had a 3-2 lead on Miami in the Eastern Conference Finals. Obviously, that's no guarantee they turn it around - maybe they are just old, finish 40-42 with the 8th seed, and get pasted Miami in the 1st round. However, I'm not convinced they're done just yet. We'll see what they do at the deadline, see if Bradley makes any difference, and check back in 20-30 more games. If they're like 27-33 at the 60 game mark, I'll be ready to say they're probably not coming back. The thing to watch is their D-rating - if they start to creep back up towards the top of the league, they're in play to be Miami fodder (barring injuries). If they stay middle of the pack, where they are now, it's all over.

Even still though - if you're, say, the Knicks, and you get the 2 seed....isn't a 7th seeded Celtics team suddenly playing Garnett at pierce 38 minutes per night the last thing you'd want to see in round 1?






   44. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 03, 2013 at 12:06 PM (#4337897)
Comment amused me: "This is what the Nets thought they were getting when they signed Joe Johnson.


Seems like as good a lead in for a Hawks comment as possible.

When the Hawks traded everyone but Horford and Smith last off-season, I think most Hawks fans (there are 12 of us, we have a small email list we exchange recipes on) thought the Hawks would be worse than before. My "basketball-smart" buddy suggested after the dust had settled that Lou Williams was probably as good as Johnson, all things told, and that the new team should be about the same but more fun to watch because they're faster and should run more. That was the only place I heard that (and I am the opposite of a stat-savvy basketball fan, personally.)

That seems to have been a prescient prediction.
   45. Manny Coon Posted: January 03, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4337914)
I really don't care what the advanced stats say- there is no ******* way Blake Griffin is the 8th best player in the league. There are at least four PF's in the West playing just as good as him right now (Duncan, Lee, Ibaka, Aldridge) and another two not far behind (Love, Millsap). David Lee is beating Griffin in every significant offensive category right now and no one would even consider Lee a top 20 player. Yeah, Lee is terrible defensively but he absolutely took Griffin to town tonight, not to mention having over twice as many rebounds.


The guy had a bad game last night, it happens, especially on the second night of a road back to back. He also just had a stretch where his team went undefeated for a month and he shot 59% from the field. Duncan has had some bad games this year too, including a game where they got blown out by the Clippers and he had only 10 points and 6 rebounds, nobody is going to use that one game to judge him.

Kevin Love is shooting 35% this year, I doubt anyone thinks that is his true talent level, he's not having a great year. I'm not seeing it with Aldridge either, his TS% is only 52% and his rebound rate is weak. Lee is having a good year and his raw numbers look even better because he's playing a ton of minutes (same with Aldridge); it will be interesting to see if he can sustain it, he's playing significantly better than his past two seasons, his defense does count against him compared to most of these other guys though. Millsap his having a bit of an off year, he doesn't seem terribly close these guys, I'd probably put him behind all of them and Zach Randolph.
   46. andrewberg Posted: January 03, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4338010)
Nets crush the Thunder on the road, with Durant getting tossed. Stunning. Didn't watch but caught the postgame show. Comment amused me: "This is what the Nets thought they were getting when they signed Joe Johnson." I laughed at that one. Yeah, everyone thought that Joe Johnson was a regular 11-for-19, 33 point per game guy.

Judging from boxscore, looks like Deron outplayed or at least played Westbrook to a draw, and Westbrook had a good shooting game. 19 points on 12 shots, 13 assists, 2 TOs, 5 steals for Deron.


I watched a lot of that game. The Nets came out red hot from the field (especially Johnson) and got up about 20 through a quarter. They spent the rest of the game playing really slowly through Lopez and got just enough to hold on. Westbrook and Ibaka did some nice things in leading the Thunder back (the former by pushing the tempo and the latter by running with him). They actually tied the game up in the 4th, but they were just out of gas at that point. I don't know if I would say Deron played as will as Westbrook (several of his points were on intentional fouls at the end and several of his assists were on long makes by Lopez), but he at least played well enough that it was not a mismatch.

My "basketball-smart" buddy suggested after the dust had settled that Lou Williams was probably as good as Johnson, all things told, and that the new team should be about the same but more fun to watch because they're faster and should run more. That was the only place I heard that (and I am the opposite of a stat-savvy basketball fan, personally.)


The thing I have not understood is how they improved defensively by adding big doses of Lou Williams, Kyle Korver, and Anthony Morrow to the rotation. Good on them for doing it, though.

Kevin Love is shooting 35% this year, I doubt anyone thinks that is his true talent level, he's not having a great year


No, no he is not. He can't make anything. I think part of it is that is release is wrong after the hand injury and part of it is that he did not get to do his normal training while hurt so he still looks like he doesn't have his legs (why a hand injury would ruin your cardio and leg strength, I have no idea, but he has always worked hard, so I give him the benefit of the doubt). Last night was probably the worst game of the year for the Wolves. Even when they were holding it together against the Jazz, it was offensive smoke and mirrors. They can't shoot, there is no creativity in the playmaking, and they are pretty much totally reliant on dumping it to Pekovic to plow through however many defenders come at him (since he does not pass). Still, I have to think that Love will get hot at some point and Rubio will contribute SOMETHING, but the taste in my mouth at the moment is pretty gross.
   47. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 03, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4338038)
My "basketball-smart" buddy suggested after the dust had settled that Lou Williams was probably as good as Johnson, all things told, and that the new team should be about the same but more fun to watch because they're faster and should run more. That was the only place I heard that (and I am the opposite of a stat-savvy basketball fan, personally.)

Several people here were high-ish on them*, and one of the previews (can't remember if it was Pelton or Lowe) had them 2nd in the East. The one thing most of us talked about here was how bad/mediocre/even the rest of the East was after Miami. Different people had different teams they liked more than others, and reasons for not liking the other teams. Well, outside of the Knicks hot start, just about every other East team has done things to prove their doubters right. But the Hawks seems to have been the most consistent of that bunch, which is impressive considering the turnover.

   48. Squash Posted: January 03, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4338082)
That said, power forward does have a high replacement rate.

There seem to always be a bunch of PFs high up on the win shares board. If we go back 10 years to 2002-03, which I don't think anyone would describe as a golden era of power forwards, in the top 20 there we have Duncan (again, call him what you like), Nowitzki, Garnett, Marion (played a lot of PF), Malone, O'Neal (Jermaine), P.J. Brown, you could throw Stojakovic in there, and Abdur-Rahim. That's another 9 guys who spent either all or a lot of time at PF. Or another 10 years, 1992-93: Malone, Barkley, Larry Nance, Detlef Schrempf, Larry Johnson, Derrick Coleman, Horace Grant, Shawn Kemp. That's 8.

PF seems to be a position where it's easy(er) to put up big stats, probably because if you were a better defender and/or bigger you would be playing center. So you have a bunch of guys matched up on each other who have weaknesses on D, plus they're not getting worn down as much by going against/playing great D, so they can play more minutes - if you switch of to WS/48 all those PFs, even the studs, start dropping down the list.
   49. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 03, 2013 at 03:12 PM (#4338098)
Steph Curry is awesome.


Shooting wise yes, passing wise not so much. He had so many turnovers against the Lakers I was expecting him to come out in a Laker jersey in the 2nd half.
   50. bigboy1234 Posted: January 03, 2013 at 03:28 PM (#4338119)
So Andre Drummond, pretty much on pace for the best teenage season ever.
   51. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 03, 2013 at 03:59 PM (#4338149)

Normally I'm happy when teams that usually suck finally have some success, but it's hard for me to get behind the Warriors when their shameless tanking last year cost the Jazz a draft pick. I hate rooting for players to get hurt, but if you fake injuries to weasel your way into a draft pick you don't deserve, it would almost seem karmic if your season came crashing down the following year due to some real injuries...



I think the Warriors have had about 30 years of karma. Its about time something went the right direction for them.
   52. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 03, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4338152)
So Andre Drummond, pretty much on pace for the best teenage season ever.


You mean since last year?
   53. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 03, 2013 at 04:12 PM (#4338163)
BTW, per Play Index, a fun list: 20 guys have played 500 minutes in a season as a teenager and had a PER >= 15:

Three rookies this year (Drummond, Kidd-Gilchrist and Davis)
Irving last year.
A bunch of future HoFers and/or multiple All-Stars: Kobe, Garnett, Lebron, Bosh, McGrady (at 18 and 19!), Durant, Howard, Carmelo
Other all-world talents: Josh Smith, Andrew Bynum, Stephon Marbury
Cliff Robinson in 1979-80!
Thaddeus Young!?
Then: Anthony Randolph and Kosta Koufos! (in only 565 minutes)

Increase it to 18 PER and 1000 minutes and you get Irving, McGrady, Kobe, and Lebron.
   54. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 03, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4338184)
So Andre Drummond, pretty much on pace for the best teenage season ever.
Yeah, I may have to eat my words on Drummond. It's early, though. It's hard to see a 40% free throw shooter being an NBA starter unless he's Ben Wallace/Dennis Rodman, but Drummond's rebounding numbers are terrific, especially for his age, and his defense is, by all accounts, shockingly good for a rookie. He's no Thabeet.
   55. Conor Posted: January 03, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4338187)
With the Knicks David Lee was a really bad defender. Is he any better now?

I've always been a really big fan of his; he was a rare bright spot on some depressing teams. When he left the Knicks I said I'd rather have signed him than Amare; I wasn't exactly sure how serious I was but in retrospect it would be a no brainer.
   56. bigboy1234 Posted: January 03, 2013 at 04:33 PM (#4338196)
You mean since last year?

Kyrie is definitely in the conversation for that same accolade. That being said the difference between them defensively is huge. Then again Kyrie was playing 10 more MPG than Drummond is, it's a shame Drummond isn't getting more playing time.
   57. rr Posted: January 03, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4338199)
I actually watched most of Minnesota-Utah last night, and a Utah announcer said that Love had supposedly said that he neglected his conditioning a bit during the hand injury. Love's shot looked flat to me, and yes, playing in the altitude without Rubio against a team that needed a win and is a pretty good team, Minnesota looked very ordinary and a little dead. Kanter and Pekovic are kind of fun to watch; huge, strong guys with some basketball skills, one of whom looks like Andre the Giant's lost son and the other of whom looks like the villain's enforcer from a Roger Moore-era James Bond movie.

Mo Williams will miss six weeks or more, and the Utah announcers were talking about it a lot.
   58. andrewberg Posted: January 03, 2013 at 05:36 PM (#4338287)
one of whom looks like Andre the Giant's lost son and the other of whom looks like the villain's enforcer from a Roger Moore-era James Bond movie.


My favorite part is that I am not sure which is which. I assume Pek is the latter. Also, wouldn't Andre the Giant himself have been a great Moore-era Bond goon?
   59. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: January 03, 2013 at 05:37 PM (#4338289)
I think the Warriors have had about 30 years of karma. Its about time something went the right direction for them.


Indeed. I'm a Warriors fan who was too young to really enjoy the TMC days (although I did get to meet Chris Gatling once!), and - apart from the We Believe upset of Dallas, this is the most fun I've ever had watching them.
   60. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 03, 2013 at 06:09 PM (#4338322)
I barely remember when they won the title as I was 5 and those were the glory years of East Bay sports with the Raiders and the A's battling for the championship every year. I miss those days.
   61. AROM Posted: January 03, 2013 at 06:22 PM (#4338352)
The C's talk has pretty much been non-existent in the threads this season. Especially compared to the Lakers high-profile troubles. What is the problem with the C's? Age? The annual regular season blues (aka turn it on in the playoffs)? I wasn't buying the C's in the preseason, despite the talk of the upgraded depth, but have barely seen them play.


Joe C answered in much more detail than I can, but to me the key is that the current record is only 1 game behind last year. Garnett knows he's only got so much left in the tank, and he's not going to waste his energy on the regular season. There has been a lot of turnover with this team, and my guess is it's just the new players a while to learn Doc's defensive system.

I fully expect them to be dangerous in the playoffs, because anytime you count these guys out they tend to make you look stupid.
   62. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 03, 2013 at 06:37 PM (#4338364)
I fully expect them to be dangerous in the playoffs, because anytime you count these guys out they tend to make you look stupid.
I expect this to be true for both the Lakers and Celtics. Older, talented teams with no back-to-backs to worry about and just one opponent to focus on can become much better than their regular season record make them out to be... or at least, that's what I believe.
   63. rr Posted: January 03, 2013 at 07:19 PM (#4338394)
As I have said several times, as long as Garnett, and to a lesser extent, Pierce, are around and effective, Boston should never be entirely discounted.

I am not sure about the Lakers; I think things are completely up in the air for them at this point. Boston has shown this pattern under Rivers before, but the Lakers have different core guys and a new coach who plays guys heavy minutes.
   64. rr Posted: January 03, 2013 at 07:21 PM (#4338396)
As I have said several times, as long as Garnett, and to a lesser extent, Pierce, are around and effective, Boston should never be entirely discounted.

I am not sure about the Lakers; I think things are completely up in the air for them at this point.
   65. Booey Posted: January 03, 2013 at 09:10 PM (#4338457)
Mo Williams will miss six weeks or more, and the Utah announcers were talking about it a lot.


Yeah, and that makes me sad. Mostly cuz it means big minutes for Tinsley and Watson, who IMO should just be getting spot minutes off the bench in garbage time (though they were both pretty good last night). I'd still rather Corbin experiment with Foye or Burks at PG until Mo comes back. Plus then Hayward could take Foye's minutes at SG and get up to the 30+ minutes a game he deserves.

I am not sure about the Lakers; I think things are completely up in the air for them at this point.

I still expect the Lakers to figure things out and finish around 50 wins, but even if they're at the top of their game come playoff time, I think they'll have a much tougher time advancing past the first round than the Celts would just cuz of conference strength. Spurs, Thunder, Clips, and Grizz (in any order) are legitimately great teams and I'm having a hard time seeing any of the lower seeds pulling an upset, even one as talented as the Lakers. I think they'll need home court to do any damage in the playoffs (same with Nuggets, Warriors, etc).
   66. andrewberg Posted: January 04, 2013 at 12:11 AM (#4338613)
The Wolves and Nuggs are in crunch time with Barea-Ridnour-Williams-Cunningham-AK (Love sprained a finger) against Miller-Lawson-Iggy-Faried-Gallo.
   67. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 04, 2013 at 12:11 AM (#4338614)
The guy had a bad game last night, it happens, especially on the second night of a road back to back. He also just had a stretch where his team went undefeated for a month and he shot 59% from the field. Duncan has had some bad games this year too, including a game where they got blown out by the Clippers and he had only 10 points and 6 rebounds, nobody is going to use that one game to judge him.
Duncan put up 11 and 6 with three turnovers tonight. I really don't care what the advanced stats say....
   68. Into the Void Posted: January 04, 2013 at 01:10 AM (#4338663)
I really don't care what the advanced stats say....


Har har har. Except I wasn't talking about one game, and the entire comment was referencing other comparable PF's in the West vs. Griffin. Just stick to watching your Lakers crash and burn and pout and complain.

I mean, do you realize how annoying it is when people have the belief that stats tell you everything there is to know, and anyone who doesn't 100% fully subscribe to that is a moron? It's JUST as annoying as the opposite, the people who refuse to look at stats and make jokes about pocket protectors and living in your mom's basement. I know it's hard to believe but some people like to actually look at stats but not form their entire opinion from them. But hey- keep up the smug ####### attitude, it's pretty great.
   69. Squash Posted: January 04, 2013 at 02:26 AM (#4338693)
I mean, do you realize how annoying it is when people have the belief that stats tell you everything there is to know, and anyone who doesn't 100% fully subscribe to that is a moron? It's JUST as annoying as the opposite, the people who refuse to look at stats and make jokes about pocket protectors and living in your mom's basement.

Personally I'm completely good with people using stats - I just think we're still in the very early infancy of basketball stats. We still don't really know much, though we're struggling toward enlightenment. At this point I don't really believe we can truly separate players in terms of value into anything other than very loose tiers, and certainly have no idea who the #8 player in the NBA is vs. the #9.

But, there's a lot of money to be made, so we'll get there.
   70. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 04, 2013 at 02:31 AM (#4338695)
Har har har. Except I wasn't talking about one game, and the entire comment was referencing other comparable PF's in the West vs. Griffin. Just stick to watching your Lakers crash and burn and pout and complain.
I gotta be honest, watching the Lakers tank has been awful. But I also watch a lot of Clipper basketball, and Griffin's pretty awesome.

I mean, do you realize how annoying it is when people have the belief that stats tell you everything there is to know, and anyone who doesn't 100% fully subscribe to that is a moron?
Yes. I do realize it. You may not know it, but I've at the front of the line mocking the statistical argument that Ben Wallace was the most valuable player in the NBA from 2001 to 2003, and regulars can attest to my arguments vs. True Hoop's anti-Kobe end-of-game statistical jihad.

I know it's hard to believe but some people like to actually look at stats but not form their entire opinion from them. But hey- keep up the smug ####### attitude, it's pretty great.
You're welcome. I should point out that your initial "I really don't care what the advanced stats say..." (which, FWIW, is in itself pretty smug) with "David Lee is beating Griffin in every significant offensive category right now...." Essentially, you're cherry-picking the per-game stats you like while ignoring stats you don't, and throwing on top of that a sample of one game to declare that Griffin is not only not a top-8 player, but that David Lee is at least his equal.

Now let me ask you, how many games have you watched Griffin play? Because I've watched at least, oh, 75 Clipper games over the last 2+ seasons. I don't know that Griffin is a top-8 player, but I know that (1) he's extremely efficient around the basket, (2) he's been stretching his offensive repertoire beyond 10 feet, and (3) he's clearly improved defensively. I also know he's been taking more than 2 fewer shots while playing 5 fewer minutes per game than Lee playing on a team with a slower pace, which would address some of those per-game stats you cited. I've been a big David Lee fan since his McDonald's All-American dunk contest win so I don't want to knock him, but I don't think it's a diss to say that Griffin is just flat out better than Lee because, if you exclude guards and swingmen, I don't think there are five guys in the NBA better than Griffin is right now.
   71. Squash Posted: January 04, 2013 at 02:51 AM (#4338702)
but I don't think it's a diss to say that Griffin is just flat out better than Lee because, if you exclude guards and swingmen, I don't think there are five guys in the NBA better than Griffin is right now.

I don't see that one can really compare a power forward to a center at this point because they're completely different positions and we're not too sharp yet on equalizing them, but I do think we can compare power forwards to power forwards. That being said Griffin is currently #12 on WS/48. The non-guard non-swingmen ahead of him are Tyson Chandler, Tim Duncan, Tiago Splitter, and Marc Gasol (David Lee is one spot behind Griffin at #13). He's #11 in total Win Shares - the guys ahead are Tyson Chandler, David Lee, Tim Duncan, and Marc Gasol. So by either measure you could very well be right.
   72. Squash Posted: January 04, 2013 at 02:58 AM (#4338707)
On a completely different note, as a Warriors fan I wonder where the other Warriors fans who were so up in arms over the Ellis trade are now (not that there were any as I recall on this site, more in the general sense). Classic addition by subtraction. Getting Bogut back eventually possibly some day is pure gravy.
   73. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 04, 2013 at 03:18 AM (#4338716)
On a completely different note, as a Warriors fan I wonder where the other Warriors fans who were so up in arms over the Ellis trade are now (not that there were any as I recall on this site, more in the general sense). Classic addition by subtraction. Getting Bogut back eventually possibly some day is pure gravy.


Well, it ended up being Ellis for Harrison Barnes (plus Bogut). :)
   74. Into the Void Posted: January 04, 2013 at 04:23 AM (#4338728)
I should point out that your initial "I really don't care what the advanced stats say..." (which, FWIW, is in itself pretty smug) with "David Lee is beating Griffin in every significant offensive category right now...." Essentially, you're cherry-picking the per-game stats you like while ignoring stats you don't, and throwing on top of that a sample of one game to declare that Griffin is not only not a top-8 player, but that David Lee is at least his equal.


That comment wasn't meant to be smug at all- it was purely opinion coming from a moderate indifference to advanced stats I'm supposed to worship as God's truth, which I knew would draw ire from people here- which it did. I wasn't cherry picking because, as you quoted, all I said was "David Lee is beating Griffin in every significant offensive category right now." Which he is. You would have to cherry pick stats to find anything that, offensively, Griffin is beating Lee at. Look at the stats, both simple and advanced, and show me otherwise.

And this isn't even about being a Warriors fan, or a Lee fan, per se- my whole point was that I disagreed with the notion that Griffin was significantly better than other PF's in the West. I happened to use Lee as an example, and it didn't have much to do with that one game, though that certainly didn't help. Griffin looked silly out there.

Now let me ask you, how many games have you watched Griffin play? Because I've watched at least, oh, 75 Clipper games over the last 2+ seasons.


I would guess in the past two years I've watched around 40 Clippers games, which leads me to this...

but I don't think it's a diss to say that Griffin is just flat out better than Lee because, if you exclude guards and swingmen, I don't think there are five guys in the NBA better than Griffin is right now.


I don't understand how you can exclude teammates. I'm sure you understand how much of a HUGE advantage Chris Paul is to Griffin. Can you imagine how much Aldridge's or Love's stats would go through the roof playing with Chris Paul? Or Lee's, or Cousin's, or Anthony's...

Here are five players better than Griffin: LeBron, Durant, Paul, Westbrook, James Harden. And Carmelo didn't even make that list and his PER is over four points higher than Griffin's right now...
   75. rr Posted: January 04, 2013 at 04:54 AM (#4338732)
it was purely opinion coming from a moderate indifference to advanced stats I'm supposed to worship as God's truth, which I knew would draw ire from people here- which it did.


Naw. One thing I have learned about BTF: for the most part, you get what you give. The tone you used and the way you did it pretty much locked you in for a little blowback, and the "worship advanced stats as God's truth" thing is not the case with this crowd. People here have talked about the limits of advanced stats many times, particularly PER, which you use as part of your case.

As to the issue itself, looking at Griffin's BaskRef Page, his EFG has jumped since Paul came to the Clippers, but a lot of his other statistical gains have actually been on D and many of his metrics have stayed pretty constant; he put up a 21.9 PER as a rookie, and it is 22 on the nose today. I don't like Griffin much; I am not a fan either of his style of play or of the personality he projects. But Griffin was an All-Star the day he showed up in the NBA and would be with or without Chris Paul.

Due to the aerobatics and to playing in LA, Griffin gets more MSM/endorsement attention than some other guys who are arguably more or less as good as he is, like Lee and Aldridge. But the guy is clearly an elite player. I would personally take Griffin over either of those two guys, but the gap is certainly not huge.
   76. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 04, 2013 at 06:25 AM (#4338740)
That comment wasn't meant to be smug at all- it was purely opinion coming from a moderate indifference to advanced stats I'm supposed to worship as God's truth, which I knew would draw ire from people here- which it did.
So "advanced stats" are to be disregarded, but unadjusted per-game stats are to be taken at face value? Hm.

"David Lee is beating Griffin in every significant offensive category right now." Which he is.
This is what I have a problem with. You junk the rate stats, but hug the per-game stats, and label them as "significant" while ignoring the fact that Lee is playing more minutes on a team that plays a faster pace. Per 36 minutes, Griffin actually scores slightly more, gets three times more blocks and a half-steal more per game. Lee grabs about a rebound more. There's almost no difference in their per-minute offensive numbers, so the argument that Lee's per-game stat advantage should mean something significant doesn't work. And of course, Griffin is the better defender, and I don't think there's a debate on that end.

But the argument as to who the better player is goes beyond who's getting what per game this season. Lee's having a terrific season, but there's no reason to think his season is any better than Griffin's is right now. Furthermore, Griffin was better last year, and he was better the year before that. Given their relative ages, it's a safe bet Griffin's going to be better next year, too. He's just better. I'm not saying that there's a yawning canyon of difference between the two — there's certainly not a statistically significant difference between the two this year offensively — but Griffin's better. A fraction of a point here or there shouldn't alter that evaluation.

I don't understand how you can exclude teammates.
RR answered this one. Griffin's gone from a defensive liability to a solid, and sometimes pretty good, defender. Besides, Lee's teammates aren't exactly pikers. They're 22-10, and Lee has Curry and Jack feeding him and spreading the floor, so it's not like Lee's had to do it all on his own.

Here are five players better than Griffin: LeBron, Durant, Paul, Westbrook, James Harden. And Carmelo didn't even make that list and his PER is over four points higher than Griffin's right now...
I specifically excluded guards and swingmen in my post. (I guess LeBron can count, but LeBron sort of defies categorization.) If I were to make a list of the best players in the league...

James
Durant
Paul
Bryant
Anthony
Harden
Duncan
Howard (when healthy)

And after that, I can see an argument for Griffin. Maybe he's not in the top 10, but I'm having a hard time leaving him out.
   77. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 04, 2013 at 08:56 AM (#4338757)
On a completely different note, as a Warriors fan I wonder where the other Warriors fans who were so up in arms over the Ellis trade are now (not that there were any as I recall on this site, more in the general sense). Classic addition by subtraction. Getting Bogut back eventually possibly some day is pure gravy.

I was ok with the Ellis trade. The move that sent me into Warriors hibernation after putting up their ineptitude my entire life was, ironically, the Lee signing. I hatged two things about that signing: 1. Lee's lack of defense 2. The timing. They were just about to sell the team and then they signed Lee to that humongous contract which just infuriated me. I wanted the old admin flushed out and new people brought in and then, before the new people could be brought in, the Warriors crippled them with the Lee signing. At least that was my logic at the time. After suffering through Cohan's attempt to kill the team that was just too much for me. As a Warriors junky I couldn't help but watch the from afar, though, so when they hired Mark Jackson that just also seemed like sheer idiocy. That seemed like a very dumb Warriors thing to do but I've been proven to be very wrong on that one as Jackson is the first coach since I started following the team in 1980 that has instilled some kind of defensive plan. Mark Jackson! So, yeah, getting rid of Ellis was a brilliant move even though I think of Bogut as a lottery ticket at this point. I'm never optimistic about big men with foot or ankle problems. If he does come back, then jeez, the Warriors will have the best team I've ever seen to make a playoff run. That is just crazy to think about. After 32 years they finally may have a real team. We've had fun teams before, but never anything like this.
   78. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 04, 2013 at 09:15 AM (#4338761)
   79. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 04, 2013 at 10:13 AM (#4338785)
Bear in mind with the Warriors they've played one of the league's easiest schedules so far. Still, though, everyone's points generally stand. I also like having a good Warriors team around - top five playoff crowds there, fun to watch.
   80. JC in DC Posted: January 04, 2013 at 10:16 AM (#4338786)
[78] What's great about it, is not only don't they get it, they kind of give Gibson a half-hearted defense on the second foul: "Hey, this is the NBA, he's just trying to deny the ball!" No, he's intentionally fouling, but you don't get it.

Nice win by NY last night over a tired SA team. Amar'e had no ups. His shot got blocked by everyone from Gary Neal to the Fat Man. I remain in love with the way J.R. Smith is playing. Prigioni was good as well.
   81. Spivey Posted: January 04, 2013 at 11:53 AM (#4338877)
I know my girlfriend is a kind soul, because she didn't murder me last night while I was playing with the Stacey King soundboard last night.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/stacey-king-soundboard.html

That boy is good Funk!
   82. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 04, 2013 at 12:53 PM (#4338953)
Via @treykerby of TBJ, one more reason to shake your head at the Bulls announcers.

Thankfully I missed watching that game (totally forgot about the 2pm local start on New Year's Day). Oddly enough, Stacey King has noticably improved this year. Maybe it's because the team just isn't that exciting or expected to be that good, but he's toned down his act* and has actually spent a fair amount of time being an analyst. Funk has gotten worse (or maybe it's just he seems worse next to a less bad King), and he's misidentifying players, plays, and calls more often than ever now.

In a very weak attempt at defending them, it's the first time ever I've seen Thibs use the hack-a strategy and it probably completely caught them off guard.

*Not sure the last time that soundboard was updated, but I had a ton of fun with that during the 2011 playoffs.
   83. The District Attorney Posted: January 04, 2013 at 01:41 PM (#4339002)
@kobebryant: The antisocial has become social #mambatweets
   84. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 04, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4339015)
@kobebryant: The antisocial has become social #mambatweets

39min. 54K followers and counting...
   85. puck Posted: January 04, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4339071)
So...do the end of game hackathons bug anyone? Does this happen less in the NBA than in college ball?

In the college game, it seems so bad it's a broken aspect of the game. I guess the argument would be if a team makes its free throws, it's not a problem. But I just hate the clock stopping so much, the interruption to the flow of the game. I guess it doesn't bother basketball fans...except I used to be a big basketball fan but this is a big reason I can only take so much now.

Would the NBA rule where timeouts allow you to advance the ball to half court help the college game in this respect? I guess the fouling would just continue.

Would it be so bad to impose a harsher penalties on fouls in the backcourt with 2 minutes or less remaining? Like, make them all 2 shots with possession of the ball? When teams press, it doesn't seem like they unintentionally foul that often.
   86. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 04, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4339108)
On a completely different note, as a Warriors fan I wonder where the other Warriors fans who were so up in arms over the Ellis trade are now (not that there were any as I recall on this site, more in the general sense). Classic addition by subtraction. Getting Bogut back eventually possibly some day is pure gravy.


It was a plus just not to have to listen to the insufferable Bob Fitzgerald try to make the point during broadcasts that Ellis was an "All-Star" every frickin year.

And for the record I am just happy as a Warriors fan to have someone like Lee that can rebound and score because for the longest time it seemed like we could only have one or the other and not both thanks to Nelson.
   87. andrewberg Posted: January 04, 2013 at 03:55 PM (#4339152)
In the college game, it seems so bad it's a broken aspect of the game. I guess the argument would be if a team makes its free throws, it's not a problem. But I just hate the clock stopping so much, the interruption to the flow of the game. I guess it doesn't bother basketball fans...except I used to be a big basketball fan but this is a big reason I can only take so much now.


I think NBA teams are more confident in their ability to get stops. Anecdotally, I watched the Nuggets play straight up defense against the Wolves down 5 with 40 seconds to go last night.
   88. jmurph Posted: January 04, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4339164)
In the college game, it seems so bad it's a broken aspect of the game. I guess the argument would be if a team makes its free throws, it's not a problem.


Without looking at the numbers, I'm reasonably sure no college player has ever hit a free throw in the history of the NCAA in a close and late situation. So, perhaps unfortunately depending on your view, I think it's the right strategy to foul.
   89. rr Posted: January 04, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4339183)
Along the same lines as Kobe Bryant on Twitter, Phil Jackson and Jeannie Buss are now engaged.

Maybe we can have a discussion of the best-dressed guys in the NBA or something.

UCLA is starting to do better; I saw part of their win over Cal.
   90. Conor Posted: January 04, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4339192)
I've also assumed it has something to do with the shot clock being 11 seconds shorter in the NBA, so there are more possessions to be had.

And I would also think that in college, since you have the 1 and 1 before 10 fouls,s o teams are probably more willing to foul if one missed shot gets them the ball back as opposed to having to face 2 no matter what
   91. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 04, 2013 at 04:32 PM (#4339203)
FT shooting at the end of games was the first topic in the original NBA Thread (RIP, big guy). I guess this means there's nothing more to talk about. Unless robin wants to start linking to his NBA fashion blog. Quick question, does wanting to go by another name fall under your blog's coverage, robin?
   92. rr Posted: January 04, 2013 at 04:41 PM (#4339211)
This might be better than fashion, although since the newest entry is "JR Smith's girlfriend K Michelle and the new booty shot" it may be NSFW.

www.playerwives.com/teams/nba/

As to the link in 91, if the player in question is serious, that will immediately make him one of my favorite players. But I assume he was just joking around.
   93. Squash Posted: January 04, 2013 at 04:44 PM (#4339215)
And for the record I am just happy as a Warriors fan to have someone like Lee that can rebound and score because for the longest time it seemed like we could only have one or the other and not both thanks to Nelson.

What I remember mostly about Nelson and the post Nelson influenced years is that we've had guys who could rebound and score but they were superficial/not valuable because the scoring was low-percentage volume jumpshooting and the rebounding was all garbage defensive rebounding. Guys like Troy Murphy and Jamison come to mind, but Jamison was a pretty good offensive rebounder
   94. Booey Posted: January 04, 2013 at 06:13 PM (#4339288)
Maybe we can have a discussion of the best-dressed guys in the NBA or something.


Worst dressed would be funnier. I suspect draft day uniforms from the 80's would make up a lot of the nominees.

I always thought Jordan's sense of style throughout his career and even after was...amusing.
   95. Jimmy P Posted: January 04, 2013 at 07:21 PM (#4339335)
Daequan Cook has been released and is going to sign with the Bulls
   96. PJ Martinez Posted: January 05, 2013 at 01:40 AM (#4339488)
Asked if Garnett apologized, Hansbrough said: "KG apologize? Are you from here?"

   97. Squash Posted: January 05, 2013 at 01:49 AM (#4339491)
I always thought Jordan's sense of style throughout his career and even after was...amusing.

Say one thing for Jordan, he could wear bright shiny neon blue or green or that orange-pink-red wash like no one else.
   98. steagles Posted: January 05, 2013 at 04:49 AM (#4339518)
some fun with numbers from tonight's sixers game:

FT/FTAs:
oklahoma city: 21/27
kevin durant: 9/10
nick young: 6/8
the entire rest of the sixers roster: 0/0

   99. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: January 05, 2013 at 12:19 PM (#4339618)
Asked if Garnett apologized, Hansbrough said: "KG apologize? Are you from here?"

I'll take KG's side this time, that didn't look intentional. Good quote though. Of course, I can't see Hansbrough's name or face and not think of this.

---

Of course the Bulls won in Miami last night. Of course they outrebounded them by 20 (15 on offense). Which only makes me wonder what the heck happened the last week during their mini-slump - it's shocking to see a Thibs team coast for that long. And of course, the win only makes me wonder what could have been last season... Bulls and Heat just match up so well, it's almost guaranteed to be a close game (Bulls are 7-6 against MIA since the Big 3 signed/Bulls got Thibs).
   100. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 05, 2013 at 12:52 PM (#4339636)
flip
Page 1 of 11 pages  1 2 3 4 5 6 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Eugene Freedman
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogThe Calm-Before-The-Storm and Postseason Prediction OMNICHATTER, 2014
(81 - 6:27am, Sep 30)
Last: PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth)

NewsblogESPN: Ron Gardenhire out after 13 Seasons with Twins
(31 - 6:26am, Sep 30)
Last: Dr. Vaux

NewsblogMadden: How dare the sabermetrics crowd and others try to diminish Derek Jeter’s greatness
(144 - 5:20am, Sep 30)
Last: cardsfanboy

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 2014 Discussion
(9 - 4:00am, Sep 30)
Last: shoewizard

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1958 Ballot
(9 - 2:49am, Sep 30)
Last: bjhanke

NewsblogMets close season optimistic for next year
(50 - 2:06am, Sep 30)
Last: CrosbyBird

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - September 2014
(392 - 1:53am, Sep 30)
Last: Gold Star - just Gold Star

NewsblogRBI Baseball, 2014 Playoff Edition
(2 - 1:42am, Sep 30)
Last: Harvey Berkman

NewsblogAttanasio discusses Brewers collapse, changes coming for 2015
(126 - 12:24am, Sep 30)
Last: greenback calls it soccer

NewsblogOT August 2014:  Wrassle Mania I
(261 - 12:10am, Sep 30)
Last: NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!)

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(8138 - 11:55pm, Sep 29)
Last: PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth)

NewsblogBaseball Past & Present: Vote: The 25 Most Important People in Baseball History.
(281 - 11:54pm, Sep 29)
Last: Morty Causa

NewsblogRemembering George ‘Shotgun’ Shuba, 1924-2014
(4 - 11:25pm, Sep 29)
Last: Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)

NewsblogThe Captain’s Log: Derek Jeter’s Lady-Killing Past, From ‘Yeah, Jeets!’ to Gift Baskets
(29 - 11:21pm, Sep 29)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 9-29-2014
(57 - 11:13pm, Sep 29)
Last: Walt Davis

Page rendered in 1.0077 seconds
53 querie(s) executed