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Wednesday, January 02, 2013

OT NBA Monthly Thread—January 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the fiscal cliff and Civil War generals.

baudib Posted: January 02, 2013 at 01:16 AM | 1049 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, off-topic

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   201. andrewberg Posted: January 07, 2013 at 05:49 PM (#4341183)
Until they're actually eliminated from the playoffs, I will not write off this Lakers roster.


I don't even care who is on the team, I will not write off the Lakers. They are Jason Voorhees.
   202. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: January 07, 2013 at 05:53 PM (#4341184)
Is this for him lightly bumping an official he was walking upcourt next to after a call he didn't like the other night? If this is from the play I thought, it seems likely that it's a suspension only because it's Rondo.

I dunno:

Ken Berger ?@KBergCBS
The incident happened in Sunday's game against Atlanta. Rondo will serve the suspension tonight against the Knicks.


Was he ejected from the game? I'd say if you have a history of bumping/confronting officials, there is no such thing as a light bump.
   203. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 07, 2013 at 06:19 PM (#4341196)
Okay, just one:

RT @ChelseaVPeretti: You can make a difference! Text LAKERS to Red Cross.
   204. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 07, 2013 at 06:21 PM (#4341198)
Pau has a concussion!
Howard has a torn labrum!
High fives all around!

It's funny because #### you guys.
   205. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: January 07, 2013 at 06:32 PM (#4341208)
Until they're actually eliminated from the playoffs, I will not write off this Lakers roster.


They could run 5 guys out there with Laker jerseys and still beat the Warriors.
   206. andrewberg Posted: January 07, 2013 at 07:01 PM (#4341237)
Pau has a concussion!
Howard has a torn labrum!
High fives all around!

It's funny because #### you guys.


Would you rather have your whole team get hurt and have no one bat an eye? We can compare notes.
   207. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 07, 2013 at 07:11 PM (#4341244)
Would you rather have your whole team get hurt and have no one bat an eye?
Right now, that sounds pretty good.
   208. andrewberg Posted: January 07, 2013 at 07:25 PM (#4341250)
Rubio, Love, Budinger, Roy, Lee, Pekovic, Barea, Kirilenko, Pekovic, Rubio again, and Love again all respectfully disagree.
   209. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 07, 2013 at 08:00 PM (#4341271)
I think we did talk a good deal about Rubio and Love being out, and the general consensus was that that was bad for the Wolves, and we were sad that it happened. I'm all for stirring rivalries up and I completely understand why other teams' fans are jolly over LAL's tumble this season, but the schadenfreudian glee over injuries is a bit much to take.
   210. andrewberg Posted: January 07, 2013 at 08:07 PM (#4341279)
Yeah, I am not really "happy" about the injuries. I guess I would prefer if they continued to struggle with everyone in the lineup.
   211. robinred Posted: January 07, 2013 at 08:29 PM (#4341299)
Yeah, I am not really "happy" about the injuries.


Good players getting hurt is bad for the league as a whole, and anybody's getting hurt is unfortunate, even if they happen to be guys on the evil Lakers. You made a bunch of jokes about Bynum's injuries the last couple of years; my guess is that if I started doing that with Love and Rubio, particularly if these injuries really start dragging their careers down, as Bynum's have with his, you wouldn't be "happy" about that, either.
   212. Squash Posted: January 07, 2013 at 08:53 PM (#4341309)
The one plausible what-if for the TMC Warriors getting a center is if they do the Billy Owens for Mitch Richmond trade before the draft (so they pick up the third pick rather than Owens), then draft Dikembe Mutumbo instead of Billy Owens.

Huh, I never thought of that one. Well ... damn.

Nellie's idea of the perfect center was a lanky stiff though, Mutombo was probably too muscular even as a young guy for his taste. He coveted Shawn Bradley over Chris Webber at draft time ("luckily" ending up with Webber eventually), Manute Bol, Ralph Sampson. Alton Lister had some heft to him but he was broken down so that was okay. They most likely would have drafted Billy O over Mutombo regardless, but young Mutombo could have run with TC.


I still wouldn't count the Lakers out. How long is Pau out with the concussion? If they can limp into the playoffs record-wise but with everyone eventually mostly healthy (dubious yes), they'll still be dangerous. Picking the wrong coach is probably what's hurt them worse than anything so far, but I can still see them being a hassle for someone.
   213. Into the Void Posted: January 07, 2013 at 09:07 PM (#4341312)
I still wouldn't count the Lakers out. How long is Pau out with the concussion? If they can limp into the playoffs record-wise but with everyone eventually mostly healthy (dubious yes), they'll still be dangerous


I agree, though the guys at the TBJ podcast pointed out today that the Lakers would have to go 30-19 the rest of the way to get to 45 wins, which is no guarantee to be good enough for the 8th seed in the West. With these injuries they could pretty easily lose another 6 or 7 this month.
   214. madvillain Posted: January 07, 2013 at 09:23 PM (#4341322)
Moses: I wasn't saying you were one of those fans, I'm speaking directly to the BlogaBull community. Those guys never saw a KC article they couldn't neg bomb the Org with for all it's worth.

I've been following the team. I know that Noah and Omer played on legs they never should have played on. I know Luol is playing the most minutes (or close) in the league. Thibs is a bit of a nut when it comes to injuries but I would hope everyone comes to their senses with Rose.

You're right, I don't know if Rose is on the timetable for an ACL injury but my default position, until I hear otherwise, is that he is. Because it's Derrick ####### Rose. If anyone has a little AP in him in the NBA, it's Rose.
   215. RollingWave Posted: January 07, 2013 at 09:52 PM (#4341376)
Nellie's idea of the perfect center was a lanky stiff though, Mutombo was probably too muscular even as a young guy for his taste. He coveted Shawn Bradley over Chris Webber at draft time ("luckily" ending up with Webber eventually), Manute Bol, Ralph Sampson. Alton Lister had some heft to him but he was broken down so that was okay. They most likely would have drafted Billy O over Mutombo regardless, but young Mutombo could have run with TC


Speaking as someone who lived in Philly from the Shawn Bradely draft and left just before the Allen Iverson draft, this made my head hurt.


though, I'm surprised that Sam Cassell ended up being the most high valued player of that draft, though I did remember watching him early in his career with the Rockets and keep thinking why they don't just start this guy, every time he gets in he completely lit it up.


I guess ppl hoped Shawn Bradley became what Yao Ming was (when healthy). but in the end the difference is huge. Yao racked up 3x the WS playing about half as many games in his injury shortened career.

Still, the thought of Bradley serving as a mormon missionary was amusing, how does he even ride around in those bicycles?
   216. Booey Posted: January 07, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4341425)
Still, the thought of Bradley serving as a mormon missionary was amusing, how does he even ride around in those bicycles?


I guess this isn't a direct answer to your question, but I remember reading an article in the local paper a few years back that Bradley's $10,000 custom made bicycle was burglarized from his barn (it was later recovered by police). Bradley made a joke at the time that it must've been Mark Eaton, since he's probably the only other person in Utah tall enough to ride off with it.
   217. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 07, 2013 at 10:36 PM (#4341486)
edit: broken link
   218. RollingWave Posted: January 07, 2013 at 10:39 PM (#4341490)
I'm fairly sure he didn't have the money for a 10k bike when he was serving in Australia as a missionary though heh.

Still, Bradely's career as a whole wasn't bad (he remained a useful role player for a long time), it's just that from a 2nd pick overall it simply was disappointing, then again, that year's draft wasn't entirely inspiring, starting from 1983 up until 2000 the 93 draft produced the worst top win share and overall win share (and a lot of the later once still have players playing!)

   219. PJ Martinez Posted: January 07, 2013 at 10:58 PM (#4341543)
Chippy game between the Knicks and Celtics at MSG right now. Boston by 3 with 3 minutes left.
   220. Conor Posted: January 07, 2013 at 11:09 PM (#4341560)
Chippy is putting it mildly. KG definitely got in Melo's head.
   221. RollingWave Posted: January 07, 2013 at 11:18 PM (#4341572)
Wizards beat Thunder (huh..) and Hornet's leading the Spurs by 9 in the 4th... what the hell...

   222. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: January 07, 2013 at 11:22 PM (#4341578)
iirc, there was a huge difference in opp. fg% when shawn bradley was/wasn't on the floor during his philly time. a disappointment? sure - but people underrated him as a pro.
fluke side note: bradley did one thing on offense that yao never did ... shoot >90% from the line over a season, uh, of over 5 games ('01-'02 92.2%, career was 71.6%)
   223. PJ Martinez Posted: January 07, 2013 at 11:24 PM (#4341588)
Chippy is putting it mildly. KG definitely got in Melo's head.

That and his poor shooting. Melo was a bit of a mess by the end.
   224. Conor Posted: January 07, 2013 at 11:28 PM (#4341596)
Yeah well the poor shooting in the beginning was on Melo, but at the end it really seemed like he was forcing shots to try and stick it to Boston (obviously that's just me interpreting it so YMMV). There were a couple of 3's that he just dribbled up and jacked.

The Boston perimeter D was great tonight. Lee is good but Bradley is incredible out there. The Knicks couldn't get much dribble penetration at all.

Would probably be a really fun playoff series.
   225. Publius Publicola Posted: January 07, 2013 at 11:38 PM (#4341608)
Bradley is a superb on the ball defender. It's very difficult to turn the corner on him. Smith did it once, with a miraculous left to right to left penetration but that was about it. Now, if he could only learn how to pass the ball without telegraphing what he is about to do.

I'd love to know what Garnett says to his opponents that makes them throw up all over themselves. If I did, I'd can it and sell it.

And Sullinger played extremely well again. I think the Celtics have something in him. He has great hands and has a nose for the ball. There was one play where a jumper went up and it kind of got temporarily stuck between the backboard and the rim. It fooled everyone except Sullinger, who moved in and grabbed it, then laid it back in before anyone could react. You have to watch him awhile to get why he's so good because he doesn't blow you away with breathtaking athleticism or skills but he's a very smart and very strong and will take whatever you make the mistake of giving him.
   226. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: January 08, 2013 at 12:00 AM (#4341645)
I'd love to know what Garnett says to his opponents that makes them throw up all over themselves. If I did, I'd can it and sell it.
i'm pretty sure he urinates without taking his jock off.
   227. Squash Posted: January 08, 2013 at 12:21 AM (#4341670)
that year's draft wasn't entirely inspiring, starting from 1983 up until 2000 the 93 draft produced the worst top win share and overall win share (and a lot of the later once still have players playing!)

It's funny because I was thinking of taking a shot at the 1993 draft in my original post but didn't because I didn't want to go through all the other drafts to confirm if it was indeed one of the weakest of that era. Not only were there a lot of washouts, but there were also a ton of injuries, malcontents, and lazy bastards: leaving aside Shawn Bradley, there was Penny Hardaway, Jamal Mashburn, Isaiah Rider, Bobby Hurley, Vin Baker. Alan Houston is remembered mostly for being the original cap-crippling contract. Webber had his issues and Bradley is most famous for being Shaq's favorite guy to dunk on (though he did block his share of shots).
   228. PJ Martinez Posted: January 08, 2013 at 12:34 AM (#4341690)
Jared Sullinger on the "testy" atmosphere of tonight's game against the Knicks: "That's testy? I've seen way worse stuff in the 80s and I wasn't even born in the 80s."

Der K said on the previous page that one could argue Jeff Green has contributed more than Sullinger so far this season. I heartily disagree. Sullinger has the best rebound rate on the Celtics by a sizable margin, and while his defensive rotations could certainly improve, so could Green's. Sullinger will need to learn how to score inside a little despite being under-sized, given that he's generally at power forward. But it's not like Green has been able to shoot a good percentage from anywhere on the floor this year (33% from three, 41% overall).

Basically, Green's performance this year is a low bar to clear but Sullinger has done so with room to spare. And he's still a couple months from his 21st birthday.
   229. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: January 08, 2013 at 01:00 AM (#4341705)
green makes a lot of that back on defense - he's a rare tweener forward who's better at the three (where he's playing more often than not for a change) and it has shown up in his defensive numbers.

82games
sullinger - per: 13.7, opp. per: 18.8
green - per: 11.1, opp. per: 11.6

also, just as a note: sullinger's efg% on j's is 28% (48% of shots), green's is 36% (63% of shots).

i think this overrates green (whose +/- numbers are quite a bit worse than sully's) but i thought he was a plus defender going into the year and 10 sec of research hasn't refuted that belief. also, as noted a bit earlier, the replacement level is higher at the four...
   230. RollingWave Posted: January 08, 2013 at 01:12 AM (#4341713)
It's funny because I was thinking of taking a shot at the 1993 draft in my original post but didn't because I didn't want to go through all the other drafts to confirm if it was indeed one of the weakest of that era. Not only were there a lot of washouts, but there were also a ton of injuries, malcontents, and lazy bastards: leaving aside Shawn Bradley, there was Penny Hardaway, Jamal Mashburn, Isaiah Rider, Bobby Hurley, Vin Baker. Alan Houston is remembered mostly for being the original cap-crippling contract. Webber had his issues and Bradley is most famous for being Shaq's favorite guy to dunk on (though he did block his share of shots).


whats worse was that the best WS player in that draft was the 24th pick Sam Cassell, and to add insult to injury, Nick Van Exel was picked in the mid second round, and his career WS was #4 on that list only marginally behind Penny Hardway (of course, Allan Houston probably would have beaten him if his career wasn't shortened)
   231. Booey Posted: January 08, 2013 at 01:21 AM (#4341718)
I feel like a pedo when I talk about my man-crush towards Gordon Hayward since he looks like he's 15, but he sure was impressive tonight.

I also really liked using Burks as our PG in the 4th quarter. The kid knows how to get to the line.
   232. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: January 08, 2013 at 01:36 AM (#4341731)
I feel like a pedo when I talk about my man-crush towards Gordon Hayward since he looks like he's 15, but he sure was impressive tonight.
i used to really like him, but ever since he had plastic surgery on his nose, i just don't get it up nearly as high for him.

luckily, portland has a really nice two-fer going with meyers leonard and luke babbitt.


and not to leave out various other mancrushes, i still have a thing for dajuan blair, reggie evans and joey dorsey.
   233. baudib Posted: January 08, 2013 at 01:40 AM (#4341734)
The issue with the 1993 draft...well, regardless of how you view his career, Chris Webber was far and away the best guy from the draft, and he basically always was, including in college. (There was a brief period where you could argue that Penny was a better player.)

My recollection of it: Both the Sixers and Nellie coveted Bradley. I'm not sure if Nellie would have taken Bradley over Webber, given the choice. Orlando had the first pick and, logically, felt that Webber was the best player, but didn't see him as the perfect fit with Shaq. So naturally, they wanted Penny +, and figured the way to do that was by drafting Webber. The Sixers, sitting at No. 2, were perfectly thrilled to get a chance at Bradley. There was minor scuttlebutt that the Magic might draft Bradley instead and trade HIM to Golden State, but the Sixers made it pretty clear that they were going to ruin any hopes of a Bradley to Golden State trade by taking Hardaway if that happened.

Essentially, the Sixers could have just shut their mouths and played it close to the vest, and possibly had a shot at getting Webber.

(Personally, I was optimistic, but felt at the time that Bradley was a HUGE reach. It occurred to me that Muresan, taken in the second round, was essentially the same type of player as Bradley, not really, from an athletic standpoint, but a gamble to get a possibly dominant big man.) Bradley had a useful enough career but was never going to live up to the hype of being called a game-changing athlete. He showed flashes of brilliance but never put it together. I don't think Bradley was ever really into being a basketball player, he was just forced into it because he was 7-foot-6 and athletic, and well, when people tell you you could make millions, you tend to do it.
   234. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: January 08, 2013 at 02:09 AM (#4341740)
Skiles out in mil (h/t Pelton, from Sam amick)
   235. Booey Posted: January 08, 2013 at 02:34 AM (#4341747)
and not to leave out various other mancrushes, i still have a thing for dajuan blair, reggie evans and joey dorsey.


Probably not the kind of mancrush you were referencing, but wasn't Evans the guy who literally put a crush on Chris Kamans manhood?
   236. RollingWave Posted: January 08, 2013 at 03:25 AM (#4341752)
Bradley was atheletic for a 7'6 white guy, but by NBA standard he was clearly on the bottom end of atheletism, and it burned him through most of his career, he did well against teams that really lacked a big body but when matched up against true big centers he was simply too light and got thrown around, Yao Ming was still much bulkier than him, not to mention actually had a good shot and general feel for the game.

But yeah, Bradley didn't feel like much of a ball player, though he did have some games where he dominated. but far too many inbetween where opponents simply overpower or ran circles around him.

Of course, the Sixer made an even WORSE pick in the following year by picking Sharone Wright, who compiled a wooping 1 WS his entire NBA career. granted that was also not the most world beating draft class (espeically since Kidd and Hill were already off the table by the time the Sixer picked) but still, they passed up Eddie Jones and almost anyone behind him still had a better career. that was either a case of god awful talent evaluation or an even worse case of talent development.


The frustrating thing about the 90s Sixer was that there were a lot of players that on their own were useful to even very good players, Bradley, Weatherspoon, Stackhouse, Iverson etc.. but put together they were a complete train wreck. there seem to have been no plan to put together a team, and simply grabbed random pieces that fit horribly with each other. I still think picking Iverson was a mistake, even if you do it without the hidesight of Kobe being Kobe, the Sixer certainly built a team with great top talent individually but completely sucked together.

Consider this was the starting lineup of Iverson's rookie season

Derek Coleman
Clarence Weatherspoon
Jerry Stackhouse
Allen Iverson
A rotation of oook center (mainly Scott Williams)

On paper you'd think team would be good, in reality they were terrible.

This had to be a classic example of how NOT to put together a team.

I always wondered what if the Sixer picked Malbury (which was widely rumored before the pick) or Nash instead of Iverson in that draft, and maybe retained Bradley, as maddening as Bradley can be, Derek Coleman was basically the same thing on a different level. Sure the Sixer eventually got better with Iverson and trading Stackhouse for Ratcliff but really the period between Barkley's departure until the team finally built a reasonable support cast around Iverson was simply god awful, and it's not due to the lack of talent, but actually made worse BECAUSE the talent was evident.



   237. baudib Posted: January 08, 2013 at 06:16 AM (#4341764)
I don't know that I'd expect to win anything with that group. It's sort of like the 2013 Phoenix Suns, as mentioned earlier in this thread. The Suns have a plethora of very usable NBA players: Gortat, Scola, Dragic, Dudley, Brown. You say, yeah, these guys are all decent. And of course they're 12-23.

-- Stackhouse developed after leaving the Sixers, but even at his best he's overvalued as a bad 20 ppg guy. I thought the guy was hopeless; he was a scorer who couldn't shoot or dribble. The Sixers would have improved by trading him for a bag of sweatbands; instead, they got a 1st team all-defensive type guy in Theo Ratliff, and a good swingman in McKie.

-- Spoon was miscast with the Sixers, being drafted to fill Sir Charles' shoes. Spoon would have been a terrific forward off the bench for a good team.

-- If you had a time machine and just wanted to tinker a bit with history, go back and put Larry Brown on the Sixers a couple years earlier.
   238. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: January 08, 2013 at 10:40 AM (#4341846)
Skiles out in mil (h/t Pelton, from Sam amick)

Surprise, surprise. It was only a matter of time. Jim Boylan is rumored to be the interim. He's TERRIBLE as a head coach. Once again, Bucks are likely to miss the playoffs.
   239. NJ in DC Posted: January 08, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4341906)
Apparently an unnamed Nets player is being held in Philly for a sexual assault investigation.
   240. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: January 08, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4341917)
Stackhouse developed after leaving the Sixers, but even at his best he's overvalued as a bad 20 ppg guy. I thought the guy was hopeless; he was a scorer who couldn't shoot or dribble. The Sixers would have improved by trading him for a bag of sweatbands; instead, they got a 1st team all-defensive type guy in Theo Ratliff, and a good swingman in McKie.

The fact that Stackhouse is still in the NBA blows my mind.
   241. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: January 08, 2013 at 11:58 AM (#4341935)
240/stack: mine too.

in no way, shape (height is not a shape), or form was mursean like bradley.
muresan, btw, was a ton of fun.
incidentally, didn't bradley also play hs baseball and golf? don't mean that as a critique of his athleticism, just that it's interesting.

   242. GregD Posted: January 08, 2013 at 12:12 PM (#4341952)
Always loved the quote from the Sixers trainer on Bradley's fitness after he came back from his mission. Something like, "Definitely below average." Q: "Below average for the NBA?" A: "Below average compared to the guys walking down the sidewalk." I'm sure I have the words wrong, but at that moment I was pretty sure Bradley would not be an NBA star. Competitive people don't like to train, but they figure out a way to do it.
   243. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: January 08, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4341957)
K.C Johnson ?@KCJHoop
Shumpert suffered ACL tear same day as DRose but had surgery earlier. RT @I_Am_Iman: Cleared for full contact by the team Doctors!
   244. Jimmy P Posted: January 08, 2013 at 12:37 PM (#4341974)
Surprise, surprise. It was only a matter of time. Jim Boylan is rumored to be the interim. He's TERRIBLE as a head coach. Once again, Bucks are likely to miss the playoffs.


I think I read that Skiles tenure in Milwaukee was only 8 days longer than in Chicago. He gets defensive results, but the players wear out quickly. I guess if you can get the defensive improvement to stay he's worth it.

   245. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: January 08, 2013 at 12:50 PM (#4341987)
In the Bulls' case, it didn't stick. They were terrible defensively under Boylan, and it continued under VDN until Thibs turned it around. I don't have splits but the Bulls DRtgs under Skiles (oldest to newest): 103.4 (16th, he coached 2nd half of season only), 100.3 (2nd), 103.4 (7th), 99.6 (1st). DRtg season he quit 25 games in and was replaced by Boylan: 107.2 (14th). DRtg under VDN: 108.7 (18th), 105.3 (11th).
   246. andrewberg Posted: January 08, 2013 at 12:52 PM (#4341989)
Bradley was atheletic for a 7'6 white guy, but by NBA standard he was clearly on the bottom end of atheletism


I once did a very rough calculation of how many 7-footers there should be based on probabilities and population distribution. I don't remember exactly how the numbers came out, but once I accounted for the NBA, NBDL, and the very top European leagues, something like 75% of the theoretical 7-footers between ages 20-35 were playing high-level pro basketball. By that reasoning, there are some guys (especially those farther above 7') who would be below average athletically in the population at large.

muresan, btw, was a ton of fun.


I went to a Wizards playoff game a few years ago where they were offering to give away free pizza coupons to everyone in the crowd if one of three people from the stands could dunk. The first two failed, then the third one pulled up lame (obviously a work) and asked to be replaced, so they started asking if anyone in the crowd could substitute for him. Muresan, naturally, emerged from next to the tunnel to one of the biggest ovations I ever heard at a DC sporting event, and he walked the ball up to the rim and dunked without leaving the floor. The Wiz lost the game, but everyone went home happy.

Surprise, surprise. It was only a matter of time. Jim Boylan is rumored to be the interim. He's TERRIBLE as a head coach. Once again, Bucks are likely to miss the playoffs.


I will say that I was surprised by the timing. I figured he would finish out the year and see if they could sneak into the playoffs since they were playing fairly well to start the year. I know they lost four in a row before the separation, but they still seem like a possible low-end playoff contender to me.
   247. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: January 08, 2013 at 12:58 PM (#4341999)
I'm not enough of an NBA fan to read it, but Slate got an interview with Royce White and talked to him about his situation. You can read it here or listen to the full podcast.
   248. jmurph Posted: January 08, 2013 at 01:04 PM (#4342008)
I went to a Wizards playoff game a few years ago where they were offering to give away free pizza coupons to everyone in the crowd if one of three people from the stands could dunk. The first two failed, then the third one pulled up lame (obviously a work) and asked to be replaced, so they started asking if anyone in the crowd could substitute for him. Muresan, naturally, emerged from next to the tunnel to one of the biggest ovations I ever heard at a DC sporting event, and he walked the ball up to the rim and dunked without leaving the floor. The Wiz lost the game, but everyone went home happy.


I got free tickets in a suite at a Wiz game a couple years ago, and they brought Muresan into the box to shake hands. It was both awesome and slightly sad, because other than my friend and I, I don't think any of the other 10-12 people had any idea who he was.

Also: he is huge. I'm a pretty big guy, and his hand absolutely swallowed mine.
   249. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: January 08, 2013 at 01:06 PM (#4342010)
I will say that I was surprised by the timing. I figured he would finish out the year and see if they could sneak into the playoffs since they were playing fairly well to start the year. I know they lost four in a row before the separation, but they still seem like a possible low-end playoff contender to me.

Meh, it's what he does. He quit on the Bulls on Christmas, he quit on the Suns when they were 1 game under .500.

I'm trying to read between the lines on the tweets about it, they're saying it was mutual, that he wasn't coming back next year, and it was the last year of his deal. To me, that sounds like he asked for an extension, was told to play out the season and/or they'd talk about after the year, he said he won't come back if he's not extended now, and neither side blinked. Kind of a Riggleman with the Nats situation.
   250. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: January 08, 2013 at 01:14 PM (#4342015)
   251. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: January 08, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4342016)
Also: he is huge. I'm a pretty big guy, and his hand absolutely swallowed mine.
I once had the opportunity to shake hands with Doctor J - enormous hands.
   252. Squash Posted: January 08, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4342037)
Bradley had a useful enough career but was never going to live up to the hype of being called a game-changing athlete. He showed flashes of brilliance but never put it together. I don't think Bradley was ever really into being a basketball player, he was just forced into it because he was 7-foot-6 and athletic, and well, when people tell you you could make millions, you tend to do it.

I got that impression as well, what he really wanted to do was be a member of the Mormon church and was in the NBA only because it seemed like he had to be. What I remember most about the leadup to that draft (which was one of the first to get a lot of publicity) was they had that one clip of Bradley dunking on the fast break that they showed over and over and over. I remember being concerned that was in fact his only highlight and terrified that the Warriors would end up with him when there were two other clear studs in Webber and Hardaway.

Stackhouse developed after leaving the Sixers, but even at his best he's overvalued as a bad 20 ppg guy. I thought the guy was hopeless; he was a scorer who couldn't shoot or dribble.

The thing is right after getting rid of Stackhouse the Sixers went and drafted the poverty-stricken man's version of him in Larry Hughes. Those mid-late 90s Sixers teams were very weird until they realized they should just dump every other scorer around Iverson and surround him with a bunch of defense-first rebounders. It's crazy that Stack is still in the league, but for that matter Iverson is still only 37 - it seemed like he was around forever but he was actually done at 34 which is pretty young for a star these days.
   253. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: January 08, 2013 at 02:12 PM (#4342062)
Perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about. BDL had some quotes that help make sense.

   254. NJ in DC Posted: January 08, 2013 at 02:18 PM (#4342069)
So, the Nets player in question is Blatche (of course). His deal went guaranteed yesterday at 5PM (of courser).
   255. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 08, 2013 at 02:41 PM (#4342098)
NJ, congrats, by the way. When are you getting married?
   256. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: January 08, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4342102)
[254] From reports it sounds like this went down in Blatche's suite -- he was around (sounding like in another room) but not directly involved. I am no Blatche fan but this just sounds like standard issue bad judgment on entourage (not to diminish the seriousness of the incident).
   257. AROM Posted: January 08, 2013 at 02:49 PM (#4342114)
drafted the poverty-stricken man's version of him in Larry Hughes


Another what if: To make that pick the Sixers passed on Paul Pierce, the 2nd best career in that draft. They also passed on Dirk Nowitzki, who was taken right between Hughes and Pierce. Personally I give them a pass on that because I knew nothing about Dirk and thought the pick was just Don Nelson going off the deep end again. I knew Pierce was going to be good (or at least guessed as much and have been proven right) and was not happy that the Sixers left him on the board.

I always wondered what if the Sixer picked Malbury (which was widely rumored before the pick) or Nash instead of Iverson in that draft,


Nash is a good "what if" but what is there to wonder about Marbury? He wasn't good enough to have made the Sixers any better in the late 90's, and I don't see any way he leads them to the NBA finals for a year like Iverson did. Pretty much I see Marbury a poor man's Iverson, and he always has been. A high volume, low percentage player. But where Iverson had hustle and a super competitive drive, Marbury not so much.

   258. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: January 08, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4342120)
I'm not sure which of these is the best and which is the worst. It might be the same one.
   259. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 08, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4342129)
I'm not sure which of these is the best and which is the worst. It might be the same one.


It's pretty obvious, and yes, I think the same one is both.
   260. Booey Posted: January 08, 2013 at 03:18 PM (#4342159)
I don't think Bradley was ever really into being a basketball player, he was just forced into it because he was 7-foot-6 and athletic


Yeah. But what else are you gonna do when you're 7'6? *


* Other than running around in the woods in a custom made gorilla suit faking Bigfoot sightings, of course. But that's a given, right?
   261. Into the Void Posted: January 08, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4342175)
I'm not sure which of these is the best and which is the worst. It might be the same one.


What, no Thibs!?
   262. smileyy Posted: January 08, 2013 at 03:58 PM (#4342200)
[260] This is somewhere between the two scenarios? http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kvt5jlun7p1qzg791o1_500.jpg

To be fair, he also played basketball, just not in the NBA.
   263. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: January 08, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4342212)
It's pretty obvious, and yes, I think the same one is both


I for one can't wait to pay $450 to have a portrait of Joakim Noah screaming on my wall.

EDIT: $495!
   264. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: January 08, 2013 at 04:14 PM (#4342227)
The artist should paint a life-sized one of Nate Robinson. And one of Boozer with the painted hair. And VladRad in his warmups on the bench.

BTW, that link was emailed to me directly by the Bulls. They are promoting those, for some reason.
   265. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 08, 2013 at 04:21 PM (#4342235)
I just want to see a similar portrait of Thibodeau.
   266. Mark S. is bored Posted: January 08, 2013 at 04:32 PM (#4342245)
Woj: Suns, Grizz discussing Gay-for-Dudley+pick(s).


1) Like there's a chance in hell that Sarver would approve taking on more salary
2) Why would the Suns do this?
   267. Squash Posted: January 08, 2013 at 04:33 PM (#4342247)
Personally I give them a pass on that because I knew nothing about Dirk and thought the pick was just Don Nelson going off the deep end again.

Drafting Dirk was Don Nelson going off the deep end again - he had to go through a lot of tall white offense-only stiffs to finally find his Dirk Nowitzki. I've always thought Nelson drafting Nowitzki was his stopped clock is right twice per day moment.

But where Iverson had hustle and a super competitive drive, Marbury not so much.

Supposedly Marbury is now Mr. Good Teammate in China. Took him a while and he had to cross continents to do so but he got there. I saw him once in a coffee shop in LA, head tattoo and all.
   268. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 08, 2013 at 04:44 PM (#4342265)
   269. The District Attorney Posted: January 08, 2013 at 04:52 PM (#4342278)
#268: Was not expecting that. (Or comprehending it.)
   270. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: January 08, 2013 at 05:08 PM (#4342295)
ah - now the bill simmons frosted flakes joke makes sense
   271. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: January 08, 2013 at 05:17 PM (#4342303)
I like how KG went with "Honey Nut Cheerios" instead of just "Cheerios."

And now I'm imagining Kevin Garnett saying "Cheerio" like a British stereotype and I'm very happy.
   272. andrewberg Posted: January 08, 2013 at 05:37 PM (#4342326)
I listened to Royce White on the Slate sports podcast. It echoed a lot of what we discussed earlier about how the team did some accommodation (especially about travel) but balked at leaving the decision of when to stop playing and when to return to the court after a bad instance of stress-induced anxiety up to White and his personal medical team. I wanted to know whether there was any conversation of whether the team could hire its own mental health professionals to work with him. He made it sound like it was a dichotomy between his own therapist(s) and Daryl Morey, which seems like the wrong question to me.

Other than that, he came off as an extremely intelligent guy. I can identify with a lot of the experiences he described arising out of his generalized anxiety disorder and hyper-vigilance. On the other hand, he has very different conclusions about how to deal with those issues than I have encountered. His idea of treatment is very rigid and opposed to exposure; I didn't know those were common tropes in branches of mental health treatment.
   273. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: January 08, 2013 at 05:49 PM (#4342340)
I listened as well and came to similar conclusions (though I lack experience w mental help professionals) - I'm not sure why the HUAL guys didn't ask about the Rockets' designated mental health professionals
   274. andrewberg Posted: January 08, 2013 at 05:58 PM (#4342350)
I listened as well and came to similar conclusions (though I lack experience w mental help professionals) - I'm not sure why the HUAL guys didn't ask about the Rockets' designated mental health professionals


I got the impression that White did not have the same take on what constitutes a "reasonable" accommodation under FMLA. Permanent, intermittent leave is pretty dicey for an employer and I don't think he appreciates the sacrifice he is asking the team to make from a management perspective. Of course they want him healthy, but he is asking them to establish a process in which they cannot participate and cannot monitor that would determine when and if the employee can work.
   275. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 08, 2013 at 08:02 PM (#4342435)
Only one more hour until the Lakers play the Rockets, and I'm actually excited. No, they're not going to win, but it'll be all Mamba, all the time. Should be terribly interesting, and possibly terrible, which would also be interesting.
   276. Publius Publicola Posted: January 08, 2013 at 08:16 PM (#4342442)
But where Iverson had hustle and a super competitive drive, Marbury not so much.


Neither one of them helped you win much though. Iverson was actually through after his age 32 season. His play in Detroit was horrifically bad.
   277. smileyy Posted: January 08, 2013 at 08:36 PM (#4342460)
I got the impression that White did not have the same take on what constitutes a "reasonable" accommodation under FMLA.


FMLA or ADA? I thought you had to be employed for a year for FMLA to be applicable? Or does a multi-year contract make it applicable immediately?


Permanent, intermittent leave is pretty dicey for an employer...


Is that any different than, say, if Brandon Roy's knee only allowed him to play games intermittently? They're both pre-existing conditions that management is aware of, even without the ADA being involved.

IIRC, accomodations for sporadic unpaid leave is part of the ADA (or is it FMLA?) regulations, but I could be wrong. And I'm not sure how the partiality of the medical evaluation plays into that.

It does sound like some 3rd party arbitration or a court ruling would be necessary to clarify this. I suspect the Rockets will be saying that you can't perform the required duties of an NBA player (which extend beyond the court) with White's condition. Which is unfortunate if true.
   278. RollingWave Posted: January 08, 2013 at 08:55 PM (#4342471)
Nash is a good "what if" but what is there to wonder about Marbury? He wasn't good enough to have made the Sixers any better in the late 90's, and I don't see any way he leads them to the NBA finals for a year like Iverson did. Pretty much I see Marbury a poor man's Iverson, and he always has been. A high volume, low percentage player. But where Iverson had hustle and a super competitive drive, Marbury not so much.


In theory, the question is because the Sixer as constructed before the pick simply didn't make any sense to take Iverson, Marbury was more of a passer than Iverson, which made more sense when your already on a team with Coleman and Stackhouse.

And if we're going for the 1 super start that can change the whole game and rebuild everything around him (which was what the Sixer eventually did around Iverson), then they should have just went out and got Kobe. (then again, they shoulda picked Garnett isntead of Stackhouse as well.)

In the end, the guy most screwed was probably Weatherspoon, who wasted most of his career on a horrific team, he was really a nice role player, too bad he was the only one on a god awful team.



   279. RollingWave Posted: January 08, 2013 at 09:25 PM (#4342487)
Only one more hour until the Lakers play the Rockets, and I'm actually excited. No, they're not going to win, but it'll be all Mamba, all the time. Should be terribly interesting, and possibly terrible, which would also be interesting.


Predictably, they are blowing away the Rockets so far, which would also be interesting, if they manage to actually go on a big win streak without Howard.

   280. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: January 08, 2013 at 09:34 PM (#4342495)
reggie evans: 20 rebounds
the entire sixers team: 19


   281. Manny Coon Posted: January 08, 2013 at 09:41 PM (#4342500)
Predictably, they are blowing away the Rockets so far, which would also be interesting, if they manage to actually go on a big win streak without Howard.


I wouldn't be that surprised, so far this year they are playing better than he's off the court (put play better when Gasol is playing, despite how much he's struggling).

They are playing MWP at PF, which worked has worked ok the other times they've tried it this year. It would interesting to see how they do for an extended stretch with Gasol at center and MWP at PF if Howard misses a lot time, both have done better at those positions this year, than the position where they usually play.
   282. RollingWave Posted: January 08, 2013 at 10:56 PM (#4342535)
The Rockets continue to do there thing.. already pass the 100 point mark early in the 4th

This is not gonna work in the playoff is it.... but still, it's fun to watch.

   283. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 08, 2013 at 10:59 PM (#4342536)
Lin and Harden get 21 and 5 assists in the 3rd quarter. They're good together.
   284. RollingWave Posted: January 08, 2013 at 11:15 PM (#4342541)
Another thing on the Rockets is that Greg Smith have been quietly great, his per 36 average is great, the lone exception being that he's too prone to fouls (though that's possibly a product of him never needing to worry about fouling out since he'll never play that many minutes)

Why the hell did no one draft this guy? they really should consider experimenting with just starting Smith at PF instead or something, or at least try to get him on the floor more.

On Lin: another curious thing is that Lin's actually amongst the league leader in steal and steal per game. his 3 pt shooting started out god awful but has been getting a lot better lately

Toney Douglas has also been pretty decent, which is amusing enough.
   285. baudib Posted: January 08, 2013 at 11:27 PM (#4342547)
Marbury's a ton worse than a poor man's Iverson. Iverson had a ton more defensive value, and as far as offensive talent around him, Coleman and Stackhouse was as good as it ever got for Iverson. Marbury had Garnett, then Marion, young Joe Johnson, Amar'e. Shawn Marion was probably better than anyone Iverson ever played with.
   286. Publius Publicola Posted: January 08, 2013 at 11:50 PM (#4342554)
Iverson had a ton more defensive value


Really? Iverson was so small and frail, you could crush him on picks or abuse him taking it to the basket or going over the top on him. He got a lot of steals but his defense wasn't very good.

Coleman and Stackhouse was as good as it ever got for Iverson


Mutumbo and 'Melo.
   287. baudib Posted: January 09, 2013 at 12:10 AM (#4342563)
Yes, really. Hollinger did work that suggested the Sixers defended the point better than any team in the league in Iverson's prime. My own limited studies say the Sixers were generally 3 points per game better on defense with Iverson.

Mutombo and Melo weren't on the same team together, and Mutombo has close to zero offensive ability anyway.

FWIW, Iverson is 93rd all-time in the NBA for defensive win shares. As you can imagine, this list is mostly big men -- he's 16th among guards. More WS than Jerry West or Doc Rivers.

   288. andrewberg Posted: January 09, 2013 at 12:19 AM (#4342568)
It does sound like some 3rd party arbitration or a court ruling would be necessary to clarify this. I suspect the Rockets will be saying that you can't perform the required duties of an NBA player (which extend beyond the court) with White's condition. Which is unfortunate if true.


Yeah, you're probably right about that. From what I know, I think White would be disappointed in the outcome (anything other than his personal doc having unquestioned final say) and might walk away. Also, you're right that it would be an ADA accommodation. His time away may be governed by FMLA but I'm mixing the stages.

Also, despite tonight, I thnk LA could compete without Howard, but not without Howard and Gasol. May be moot since I read that Howard could be back in a week.

Wolves held on against Atlanta tonight. Pek once again played great with Love out, and Rubio was more engaged, but they had trouble closing without Love.
   289. Publius Publicola Posted: January 09, 2013 at 12:33 AM (#4342574)
Hollinger did work that suggested the Sixers defended the point better than any team in the league in Iverson's prime.


Iverson didn't defend the point in his prime. Snow did. Iverson was moved to the 2 after it was decided he wasn't a true point guard.

And so what about Mutombo's offense? He was NBA defensive player OTY 4 times. Russell wasn't a great shooter either.

   290. puck Posted: January 09, 2013 at 12:42 AM (#4342576)
They also passed on Dirk Nowitzki, who was taken right between Hughes and Pierce. Personally I give them a pass on that because I knew nothing about Dirk and thought the pick was just Don Nelson going off the deep end again.


I could swear Rick Pitino was jonesing to pick Nowitzki with the 10th pick. That would have been interesting. Or maybe he would have traded Dirk mid-rookie season.
   291. Manny Coon Posted: January 09, 2013 at 12:48 AM (#4342581)
Iverson didn't defend the point in his prime. Snow did. Iverson was moved to the 2 after it was decided he wasn't a true point guard.


Pretty sure that while guys like Snow or McKie would run the offense, they were both bigger than Iverson and would cross over defensively and defend the SGs, similar to how guys Rubio or Kidd might defend SGs when playing with guys like Barea.
   292. baudib Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:05 AM (#4342587)
Iverson didn't defend the point in his prime. Snow did. Iverson was moved to the 2 after it was decided he wasn't a true point guard.


Yes, he most certainly did defend the point. The whole point of putting Snow in the lineup was to have him play bigger guards on defense.

And so what about Mutombo's offense?


Because Mutombo's offense is very germane to the question of offensive ability of teammates, whereas being defensive player of the year is not.

   293. kpelton Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:14 AM (#4342631)
This discussion made me go check out multi-year RAPM for the early 2000s. Let's take the version for 2000-01, Iverson's MVP season. He was 4.2/-1.0/3.2 (offense/defense/total), which is good but nowhere near MVP caliber (Shaq was 7.7/3.5/11.1, blowing the rest of the league out of the water on a per-minute basis).

Marbury was 4.7/-2.9/1.8. So RAPM says he was better offensively than Iverson, but such a blight defensively as to not even be an All-Star. I actually think that's about right for Marbury; no matter your opinion of Iverson's defense, he was definitely much better than Marbury on that end. As I think is the case with a lot of volume scorers, people correctly sense they're overrated and attribute this to shooting too much rather than being abysmal on defense. Hollinger got a lot of mileage out of how the real key to the Marbury-Kidd swap was how it affected the two teams on defense, not offense.

Those links are also fun if, like me, you believe Ben Wallace is a Hall of Famer.
   294. robinred Posted: January 09, 2013 at 06:24 AM (#4342650)
Nash got his 10,000th assist in the loss to Houston, becoming the 5th guy in NBA history to reach that number:

"I don't want to discredit it; I don't want to not appreciate the company I share in this milestone. But right now, that's the farthest thing from my mind. I'm just trying to find a way to win one game."

The 38-year-old Nash also admitted he has seriously considered the possibility that the Lakers, despite all their preseason hype and championship aspirations, might not even make the playoffs this season.

"That motivates me every day," Nash said. "There's no guarantee (that the Lakers make the playoffs). I think three or four weeks ago, people would have said, 'Ah, it will get better.' Now I definitely don't think there's a guarantee it will, so the only remedy is continue to work hard and give yourself a chance for it to get better.
   295. bob gee Posted: January 09, 2013 at 09:01 AM (#4342669)
284 - i hate hearing announcers (rox, but also nba league pass) talking about toney douglas as some sort of 4th quarter demigod. and i still hate when mchale has him being the pg bringing the ball up.

delfino's passing, on the other hand, has been much better than i expected from a spot-up 3 pt shooter.

smith tends to play more when asik's in foul trouble or the other team is playing a small, less physical center. he's (relatively) always moving and getting to the right spot.

   296. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4342958)
   297. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4342977)
How Laker fans feel right now.
That looks like a pretty solid smack in the face, cake or not.
   298. robinred Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:47 PM (#4342989)
That looks like a pretty solid smack in the face, cake or not


I am assuming that the guy in the Kobe jersey was part of the Rockets' mascot's act, because if he wasn't, that did seem hard enough that it would piss a person off.
   299. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:47 PM (#4342993)
iirc, both hollinger's draft rater and chad ford's prospect rankings had smith as the top unpicked guy on the board (hollinger may have had smith as a borderline first rounder). i know that he looked great when i watched him in the d-league last year.

delfino's always been a pretty good passer, hasn't he?
   300. Squash Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:59 PM (#4343009)
Those links are also fun if, like me, you believe Ben Wallace is a Hall of Famer.

I think there's a good case to be made for Wallace for the HOFer on narrative in addition. We've come around to the realization over the last 10 years that defense is at least as important as offense (if not very much more so) and he was a dominant defensive force for a lot of years with a very nice peak (though my god, look at those FT% numbers). The basketball Hall has had no problem inducting a bevy of offense-only players - why not Wallace? 4-time DPOY, won a ringz, had great hair.
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