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Monday, April 01, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the Oxford comma and unspeakable criminal acts.

 

The District Attorney Posted: April 01, 2013 at 11:27 AM | 1276 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   1101. Spivey Posted: April 28, 2013 at 10:50 PM (#4427719)
Also, Denver is a poster child for underachieving in the playoffs. Also, they are playing without arguably their best offensive player.
   1102. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 28, 2013 at 10:52 PM (#4427720)
I would love it if the star tribune had had a headline along the lines of 'FLIP-mode is the squad'
   1103. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 28, 2013 at 10:53 PM (#4427722)
Is faried 100%? Then again, who is?
   1104. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 28, 2013 at 10:53 PM (#4427723)
So, someone who understands basketball: why is Golden State having such success against the Nuggets? Should the Nuggets stop going small or would that just make it worse?

DEN can't shoot and this is even more the case without Gallo. Without the tiny bit of shooting Gallo provided (Ty Lawson is also a pretty good 3Pt shooter but he approaches the shot with the confidence of Andre Drummond at the FT line) the entire DEN offense boils down to Andre Miller ISOs (a terrible thing) and attacking the rim. Attacking the rim worked a lot better against GSW in the regular season when David Lee was "protecting" the rim but out of nowhere Andrew Bogut has decided that his multi-year healing process is done and he'd like to return to being one of the dominant defensive players in the game.

Defensively, it was obvious DEN was going to have problems against GSW because their defensive style/philosophy plays to GSW's strengths. They gave up lots of 3s at a high percentage in the regular season because of the emphasis on jumping the passing lane and attempting to create turnovers so they can score in transition. The assumption was just that the offense would be good enough that it wouldn't matter too much. But Bogut happens.
   1105. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 28, 2013 at 10:55 PM (#4427724)
Shaq: HOF player, not a HOF studio guy

Never understood why Lawson didn't take more threes - even back in his unc days
   1106. RollingWave Posted: April 28, 2013 at 10:58 PM (#4427726)
Bogut losing his Fu Manchu that he had in one of the season is also a big upgrade (to the eye.)
   1107. puck Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:05 PM (#4427732)
Thanks, folks.
   1108. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:05 PM (#4427733)
Is faried 100%? Then again, who is?


Professional athletes are expected to be at least 110%. Probably more in the playoffs.
   1109. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:09 PM (#4427736)
1108/monty: Heh.

Oh, puck... several 2nd rounders will get multi-year guaranteed contracts. The higher the pick, the more likely that is.
   1110. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:19 PM (#4427746)
Apparently someone reminded Karl/Ty Lawson that Ty Lawson is good and should be allowed to do things with the basketball.
   1111. Maxwn Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:25 PM (#4427750)
It's also possible that in addition to not being the same team as they were due to injuries, they weren't as good as they looked in the first place because of the home-court advantage they have. Denver was the only one of the top 5 in the West to have a losing record on the road, so their claim to being a top-tier team is almost entirely due to their ungodly home record. If some significant chunk of that advantage goes away when there aren't any back-to-backs, then they may not have been as much better than GSW as they looked in the regular season. And then the injuries and matchup issues close the gap even further. As I recall, this was tshipman's theory on Denver before the playoffs even started.

That said, this game is still in doubt. If they can pull out a win and get back to DEN, they may turn out fine in the end.
   1112. puck Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:29 PM (#4427753)
several 2nd rounders will get multi-year guaranteed contracts. The higher the pick, the more likely that is.


Colorado's Andre Roberson decided to enter the draft. Skinny 6'7", can't shoot, good/great rebounder. I hope it goes well for him, but that sounds like a tough road.
   1113. theboyqueen Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:34 PM (#4427756)
Steph Curry has what seems like a very unique skillset (ridiculous handle, crazy quickness, shots from all kinds of wild angles and distances). I wanna say Manny Pacquiao on a basketball court. Are there any basketball comps?
   1114. RollingWave Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:35 PM (#4427757)
Another thing is really just that the Nugget's insane home court advantage is not that big in the playoffs.. as expected... and they're really not that good on the road. they were 39-3 at home, meaning they were merely 18-23 on the road, the Warriors were basically the same record. with the Warriors getting a healthy Bogut back and the Nuggets becoming less healthy...

   1115. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:36 PM (#4427758)
I've never in my life seen anyone as good at shooting a basketball.
   1116. Maxwn Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:36 PM (#4427760)
Colorado's Andre Roberson decided to enter the draft.

I didn't know anything about that kid when you mentioned him the other day, but I looked him up and saw that he's a junior. My suspicion is that a consensus-2nd-rounder who is an upper-classman probably doesn't have a very good chance of improving his draft stock into the first-round with one more year of college anyway. If you are going to be 2nd rounder in any case and are determined to try and make a go of it in the league, there's a decent argument for going now rather than later. There's reasonable arguments the other way too, but I don't think it is nearly as clear-cut of a stay in school decision as it would be for a freshman with the same outlook in the draft.
   1117. RollingWave Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:39 PM (#4427763)
Steph Curry has what seems like a very unique skillset (ridiculous handle, crazy quickness, shots from all kinds of wild angles and distances). I wanna say Manny Pacquiao on a basketball court. Are there any basketball comps?
less crazy (and physically tough) Kobe?

   1118. robinred Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:39 PM (#4427764)
I have looked in on the Denver True Hoop affiliate a couple of times, and some of the guys there are really on Karl's ass. Don't know if that reflects the whole fanbase.
   1119. Maxwn Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:39 PM (#4427765)
18-22 on the road

19-22. They had the exact same road record as GSW.
   1120. Maxwn Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:40 PM (#4427766)
I've never in my life seen anyone as good at shooting a basketball.

I wish the Grizz had Steph Curry instead of what they do have from the '09 draft which is tears and regret.
   1121. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:42 PM (#4427767)
Denver's defensive game plan which involves leaving Steph Curry wide open on alternating sets is also less than ideal.
   1122. puck Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:44 PM (#4427768)
If you are going to be 2nd rounder in any case and are determined to try and make a go of it in the league, there's a decent argument for going now rather than later. There's reasonable arguments the other way too, but I don't think it is nearly as clear-cut of a stay in school decision as it would be for a freshman with the same outlook in the draft.


Makes sense. I read a couple of CU sports bloggers with that pov. They also added the CU context--with the team relying mostly on other players for offensive, and with a bunch of freshmen and redshirt freshmen coming in next year, Roberson might not have had much of a chance to show offensive improvement even if he managed to pull it off.
   1123. theboyqueen Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:45 PM (#4427770)
Kobe's shot is unblockable because he has such amazing body control and is able to contort in all sorts of directions before he gets his shot off. Steph doesn't seem to have any extraneous movements at all. Aesthetically they are pretty different I think.

I'm trying to remember what Mahmoud Abdul Rauf's game looked like. Maybe Pete Maravich (probably not nearly as quick)?
   1124. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:46 PM (#4427772)
Karl should lose his job.
   1125. RollingWave Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:47 PM (#4427773)
There are some guys that shoot as well as Curry, but none of them can really create their own shots like him. He's really starting to look like a truly special type of player.
   1126. theboyqueen Posted: April 28, 2013 at 11:47 PM (#4427774)
I was never a Warriors fan despite growing up in the Bay Area, and I haven't had a favorite player since Kevin Johnson (who is now my mayor), but Steph Curry is changing all of this.
   1127. Maxwn Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:08 AM (#4427785)
There are some guys that shoot as well as Curry, but none of them can really create their own shots like him.

I would argue that shooting the same percentage as Curry while taking fewer shots and taking many more of them in catch-and-shoot situations rather than off-the-dribble means that you actually don't shoot as well as Curry. I think there's a ton of evidence that catch-and-shoot 3s are systematically easier than off-the-dribble 3s.

Calderon and Korver, who had higher 3PT% than Curry this year, had 90% and 97% of them assisted. Ray Allen was always in the 80-90% range, at least over the period that hoopdata has stats. Curry was at 55% this year. That is ####### ridiculous. The only guy I can think off the top of my head who shot that well without catch-and-shoots was Steve Nash in his hey-day and he didn't take as many attempts.
   1128. GregD Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:13 AM (#4427788)
I'm trying to remember what Mahmoud Abdul Rauf's game looked like.
He was strange to watch since some times, especially going from his dribble into his shot, he was so quick and effortless that he looked like the machine he had made himself into with all that insane amount of shooting in his childhood. Yet other times he bounced around goofily, almost flailing, with weird little hops that didn't accomplish anything but were possibly part of his Tourette's. Boy was he interesting, but Curry is pretty clearly better. M A-R had serious height problems; they list him at 6-1 but I passed him in the airport and would guess he was more like 5-10.
   1129. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:15 AM (#4427789)
Guys, Kpelton already did the legwork. The evidence is pretty strong that Curry is the best shooter ever.
   1130. Maxwn Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:20 AM (#4427792)
Yeah, I saw him mention that article on twitter shortly after I made that post but I don't have insider, so I don't know what he said.
   1131. Amit Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:28 AM (#4427795)
Curry does remind me a little of Maravich, with the great ballhandling and the wide variety of shots. But Curry shoots a much better percentage than Pistol Pete ever did.
   1132. Maxwn Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:56 AM (#4427806)
But Curry shoots a much better percentage than Pistol Pete ever did.

To be fair to Pistol Pete, he took a ton more shots than Curry does. And while Curry's career FG% is about 24 pts better than Maravich (.465 to .441), his FG% this year, when he actually took a first-option number of shots, wouldn't really be that out of place somewhere in Maravich's career at .451. So then it's sort of a question of how would Maravich have shot from the 3-pt line if there was one his entire career, which strikes me as essentially unknowable.
   1133. theboyqueen Posted: April 29, 2013 at 01:20 AM (#4427810)
Boy was he interesting, but Curry is pretty clearly better.


Oh I have no doubt that Steph is pretty close to the best ever at what he does, but I'm just trying to figure out whether there is even anyone similar enough to compare him to. The thing you say about the quickness of Rauf going from his dribble to his shot is maybe why I thought of the comparison. Looking at some footage of Maravich, he actually reminds me more of a cross between Magic and Kobe.

I don't know if Curry is the best shooter I've ever seen but he has the quickest shot I've ever seen, and he sure makes a lot of them.
   1134. Maxwn Posted: April 29, 2013 at 01:26 AM (#4427811)
I'm guessing Pelton may have mentioned this in his article, but if I did the play index thing right, Curry's season this year was the highest 3PT% ever by a guy taking more than 7 a game. By 19 pts over a MIL Ray Allen season.
   1135. theboyqueen Posted: April 29, 2013 at 01:31 AM (#4427812)
Actually Kevin Durant might be the most similar player to Steph Curry, which is a bit like saying Vlad Guerrero is the most similar player to Ichiro.
   1136. RollingWave Posted: April 29, 2013 at 02:13 AM (#4427819)
I would argue that shooting the same percentage as Curry while taking fewer shots and taking many more of them in catch-and-shoot situations rather than off-the-dribble means that you actually don't shoot as well as Curry. I think there's a ton of evidence that catch-and-shoot 3s are systematically easier than off-the-dribble 3s.

Calderon and Korver, who had higher 3PT% than Curry this year, had 90% and 97% of them assisted. Ray Allen was always in the 80-90% range, at least over the period that hoopdata has stats. Curry was at 55% this year. That is ####### ridiculous. The only guy I can think off the top of my head who shot that well without catch-and-shoots was Steve Nash in his hey-day and he didn't take as many attempts.


Yeah, but in the sense that if you just have them in practice situation shooting 1000 3s they might hit about the same. there are plenty of other guys like that, Steve Novak is one, but again, outside of Durant (who's a very different type of player) no one create his own 3s like that, it's insane. He's like a better version of Reggie Miller.
   1137. kpelton Posted: April 29, 2013 at 02:20 AM (#4427821)
That's a good one, Maxwn. Did not catch that in particular.

Let's not go overboard on the Nuggets and Warriors having identical road records. Adjusted for opponents, Denver had a -0.4 differential (8th in the league) on the road and Golden State was -2.0 (13th). The Nuggets were better on the road than the Knicks (-0.8, 11th).
   1138. Maxwn Posted: April 29, 2013 at 02:48 AM (#4427826)
Let's not go overboard on the Nuggets and Warriors having identical road records.

Yeah, I agree with this. My point on the home/road split stuff was that the gap between DEN and GSW may not have been quite as big as it looked because of the Denver regular season home-court advantage. Then the injuries/match-up stuff/GSW shoooting unreal percentages may have closed it entirely. Denver was/is definitely better than the Warriors by a fair bit on the season and this is still decidedly an upset.
   1139. Maxwn Posted: April 29, 2013 at 03:01 AM (#4427827)
GSW shoooting unreal percentages

Honestly, this may explain as much of it as anything. A lot of this may just be dumb-ass luck. The Warriors have a lot of good shooters, but they shot 46% on the season, which is top third essentially. In the three wins they went 65%, 53%, and 56%. Some of that may be Denver playing bad defense but even the worst defensive teams in the league only allow ~48% shooting on the season. Sometimes you just make a lot of shots.
   1140. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 29, 2013 at 07:00 AM (#4427843)
followed curry since he shot wisky out of ncaa few years ago

he's a marvel
   1141. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 07:40 AM (#4427847)
Curry fits very nicely in the Warriors' Rick Barry/Chris Mullin pantheon. IN fact, that third quarter from Curry was almost a dead ringer for the performance Mullin gave against the Lakers in the second round of the 1991 playoffs. (James Worth took that game personally and shut Mullin down the rest of the series, though. Also, notice how I won't compare it to the Sleepy Floyd game which will never be reproduced.) I want to give yet another retro thank you to the T-Wolves for taking two other PGs and leaving Curry for the Warriors. Seeing Jonny Flynn's name light up remains one of the great moments in Warriors history, which, of course, is a double-edged sword.
   1142. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 29, 2013 at 09:04 AM (#4427870)
Speaking of Curry, let us all look back at how badly the T-Wolves screwed up the 2009 draft by passing on Curry because they had already drafted Rubio and though Curry wouldn't play the 2.

The Timberwolves turned a potential Rubio/Curry/Lawson windfall into just Rubio (who didn't come to Minnesota for two extra years); two years of Flynn (played in Australia last year); backup guard Malcolm Lee; three injury-plagued years and more than $15 million of damaged goods (Webster and Roy); and nearly $6 million of Webster/Milicic buyouts. They also briefly had and lost Motiejunas (a promising rotation guy for Houston), Parsons (no. 48 on the trade value list), Mirotic (Chicago's best prospect overseas) and Cole (a rotation guy for a 66-win team); and they have Memphis's 2013 first-rounder (near the bottom of a dreadful draft) and Brooklyn's 2013 second-rounder to show for their troubles.


KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!
   1143. AROM Posted: April 29, 2013 at 09:16 AM (#4427874)
How about Jerry West as the comp for Curry? Steph is not the dominant defender, but that's the best comp I can think of for a guy who can shoot so well off the dribble. Jerry was an all-time great as it was, but would have been much better if the 3 point rule was around in his time.
   1144. AROM Posted: April 29, 2013 at 09:31 AM (#4427884)
Carmelo was the second player since 1986 (according to bbref play index) to take 30 shots while shooting less than 30% from the field.

Good news for him is that he's in excellent company, the other was Michael Jordan in 1997 against Miami. Jordan's game was very similar across the board (9-35, 0-8 from 3, 8 reb, 1 ast) and they were also trying to close out a sweep. The Bulls lost, Miami bothered Jordan again in game 5 (11-31 shooting) but the Bulls did win that game and the series.
   1145. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 29, 2013 at 09:50 AM (#4427892)
The Timberwolves turned a potential Rubio/Curry/Lawson windfall into just...

So, they should've taken three point guards?
... Rubio (who didn't come to Minnesota for two extra years)
So taking Rubio was a mistake or part of a windfall?
...and Cole (a rotation guy for a 66-win team)
So Cole is competent?

[Not that they didn't screw up the draft.]
   1146. RollingWave Posted: April 29, 2013 at 10:15 AM (#4427915)
I would think that at the moment Rubio is clearly the worst of the 3... by a very large margin... he is exciting in his own way, but his shooting efficiency is horrific. and even if Rubio improves his shooting (which his Euro era play doesn't really suggest he's capable of being that much better at.) he's unlikely to be better than what Curry is now. hell if you go by winshare / 48 he is currently worse than Jeremy Lin. (granted it's harder to get a better WS/48 when your team sucks, but then again, most of the ball is going through him unlike Lin which makes bumping up PER easier.)

In this day and age position is becoming pretty irrelevant anyway, you have a bunch of teams playing with no true center, power forward and small forward are increasingly the same thing, and most guards today are now combo guards. yes getting a Curry / Rubio combo would be much better.

Whiffing on Parsons isn't that big of a deal though since well.. everyone whiffed on him, hard to blame them for that.

The Wolfs are now in a terrible spot again, Pek might leave and if that's the case they really should just shop Love and start from point A again
   1147. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 29, 2013 at 10:24 AM (#4427920)
Agreed on Parsons.
WS/48 and PER underrate Rubio - he's a pretty good defender.
They've got to resign Pek.
   1148. JJ1986 Posted: April 29, 2013 at 10:26 AM (#4427923)
The TWolves whiffed badly by drafting Flynn instead of Curry, but I don't think it's fair to ding them for Lawson. Yes, he was underdrafted but they got a pretty decent value (a Bobcats pick) for the number 18 pick. It didn't turn out as great because that was the one year the Cats made the playoffs.
   1149. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 29, 2013 at 10:28 AM (#4427925)
okay, I don't know how I didn't know this: Popeye Jones' son might go #1 in the NHL Draft?
   1150. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2013 at 10:30 AM (#4427927)
It's also possible that in addition to not being the same team as they were due to injuries, they weren't as good as they looked in the first place because of the home-court advantage they have. Denver was the only one of the top 5 in the West to have a losing record on the road, so their claim to being a top-tier team is almost entirely due to their ungodly home record. If some significant chunk of that advantage goes away when there aren't any back-to-backs, then they may not have been as much better than GSW as they looked in the regular season. And then the injuries and matchup issues close the gap even further. As I recall, this was tshipman's theory on Denver before the playoffs even started.


This was my theory, but to be fair, I also had GS losing because I have been down on them all year.

Denver has so many schedule wins on their schedule it makes them look better than they really are every single year. Every year the projection systems fail to account for this.

***

Re: Steph Curry: Who would you pair him with to try to win a championship? He has to be the best player on the team. Peak Pau Gasol? Post-peak Tim Duncan? Kevin Love?
edit: PS: I have worlds of respect for Curry. Shooting 40%+ on 3 when you take 7 a game? Holy crap
   1151. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 29, 2013 at 10:40 AM (#4427933)
Hinrich is in a walking boot and is out tonight. Might miss the rest of the series, too (were it to continue 7 games). As good as NateRob is, the Bulls really do need Hinrich to at least try and slow down DWill. Also, NateRob can't play all 48 and Teague is not going to cut it.
   1152. AROM Posted: April 29, 2013 at 10:43 AM (#4427939)
Re: Steph Curry: Who would you pair him with to try to win a championship? He has to be the best player on the team. Peak Pau Gasol? Post-peak Tim Duncan? Kevin Love?


Duncan, out of that group, or Kevin Garnett. Maybe Marc Gasol. Give me a big man who can contribute on offense and also dominate defensively.

Edit: certainly meaning the last few years of Garnett/Duncan, not their MVP selves of a decade ago. If I violate the "Steph has to be the best player on the team" condition, then I pick Lebron of course.
   1153. Jimmy P Posted: April 29, 2013 at 11:10 AM (#4427952)
Jason Collins has come out
   1154. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4427964)
(Note to Shaq: My flopping has nothing to do with being gay.)


Ha!
   1155. RollingWave Posted: April 29, 2013 at 11:22 AM (#4427967)
Agreed on Parsons.
WS/48 and PER underrate Rubio - he's a pretty good defender.
They've got to resign Pek.


WS/48 actually agree that Rubio is a well above average defender, they just hate his offensive game, i guess part of that is the Wolfs generally being horrific offensively, but then again, Goran Dragic is also like the one star PG on a team of suck, and WS/48 like his offensive game a lot.

I think WS/48 is inconsistent at certain points though yeah, it does generally catches the right picture
   1156. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 29, 2013 at 11:30 AM (#4427972)
sorry - WS/48 underrates Rubio because he was on a bad team / the injuries they had when he was around v. when he wasn't.

It's a pretty good metric, though - not trying to rag on it.

Interesting that it's Collins who came out first - he might have trouble finding a job next season, independent of this announcement.

Also, I wonder if Haddadi changes his number.
   1157. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 11:44 AM (#4427986)
Interesting that it's Collins who came out first - he might have trouble finding a job next season, independent of this announcement.

The cynical might say this has something to do with the timing.
   1158. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: April 29, 2013 at 11:49 AM (#4427994)
He can always find a job as a "Dwight-stopper". That's about all I know about Collins, that, and he's a twin.
   1159. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 29, 2013 at 11:51 AM (#4428000)
1157: I'm agnostic about that.
This guy has long been amongst the league leaders in the ratio between how much I respect him relative to how much I want to see him on my team. (Greg Kite II, no thanks)
   1160. Manny Coon Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:03 PM (#4428017)
Another thing to consider with Rubio is that he's 22 and Lawson and Curry are 25, he has still has a lot more room to grow. Also, it's worth noting he played really poorly when he first came back from his injury, so his numbers for this year look worse as a result and he's improved more between this year and last than it looks like.
   1161. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:06 PM (#4428022)
1157: I'm agnostic about that.

I'm not a completely cynical person--yet!--so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But yeah, I would have been surprised to see him back in the league if he loved as many ladies as Shawn Kemp. The good news is this is one more voice joining the chorus and one more step for normalcy for gay athletes in the meat of their careers.
   1162. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:07 PM (#4428024)
Another thing to consider with Rubio is that he's 22 and Lawson and Curry are 25, he has still has a lot more room to grow.

Rubio was a good pick. Flynn over Curry was just terrible, though.
   1163. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4428037)
I get not picking Curry. I never, ever understood picking Flynn.
   1164. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:31 PM (#4428068)
Duncan, out of that group, or Kevin Garnett. Maybe Marc Gasol. Give me a big man who can contribute on offense and also dominate defensively.


The recent sightings of the mythical beast known as the healthy Andrew Bogut just may fit the bill. (Not that I think the Ws are contenders, really -- I am always extremely skeptical of massive one-year team or player improvements -- but it's the right archetype if it can be kept around.)
   1165. Spivey Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4428082)
Re: Steph Curry: Who would you pair him with to try to win a championship? He has to be the best player on the team. Peak Pau Gasol? Post-peak Tim Duncan? Kevin Love?
edit: PS: I have worlds of respect for Curry. Shooting 40%+ on 3 when you take 7 a game? Holy crap


Steph Curry is an allstar, but I don't think he's close to as good as peak Pau Gasol. Yet.
   1166. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 29, 2013 at 12:49 PM (#4428094)
Steph Curry is an allstar, but I don't think he's close to as good as peak Pau Gasol. Yet.


Agreed. Let's not forget that for what a fantastic shooter and overall offensive player he is, he's a sieve on the other end.
   1167. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 29, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4428137)
I am gathering awards voting results this afternoon, announcement forthcoming.
   1168. andrewberg Posted: April 29, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4428138)
Good for Jason Collins. I hope he does find a team for next year because I think an important step in reaching normalcy regarding gay athletes is having players and media exposed to the fact that a gay guy in the locker room will not result in hellfire and brimstone raining down on the team.

-----

As great as Curry is, it is not really fair to evaluate him when he is playing his very hottest basketball against a team that is struggling, particularly on defense. As Joe C and others have said, he's not much of a defender, plus the injury concerns with his faberge ankles are going to stick with him. He is a star worth building around, but I don't think he will ever be a top-5 player no matter what he does. Also, the stats about 3PT% when shooting seven threes per game are a little skewed since NOBODY shot threes that often until very recently. It is kind of like passing yardage stats in the NFL- is Drew Brees really the best passers ever, or did rules and strategy changes put him in a position to put up amazing stats? Both are great, great players and have skills that fit the game's trends. It is unlikely that either is the best ever at what he does.

-----

I am extremely interested in what happens with the Lakers this offseason. It is so interesting because nobody knows what is going to happen with any of their four main players. Moreover, each domino weighs on how the others will fall. Count me as one who would be totally shocked if Kobe got amnestied. Also count me as one who would be totally shocked if Kobe played 60 productive games next year. The scenarios that grow out of that for next year and beyond are almost limitless.

-----

I think the consensus that the Rubio pick made sense and the Flynn pick never did is the right one. Kahn has repeatedly made very simple scouting mistakes with collegiate players by assuming that all of the skills would translate against bigger, better defenses. I agree that they need to re-sign Pekovic, but I am thinking it might be worth seeing what the market for Love is like for the first time. As much as I hate selling low on anyone, they do not have much time left with him.
   1169. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 29, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4428146)
I am thinking it might be worth seeing what the market for Love is like for the first time. As much as I hate selling low on anyone, they do not have much time left with him.

He's been a dream target on Bulls blogs since he signed his deal (and since him and Rose work out together in LA when they're not rehabbing). Simmons put a Love for Boozer (to make the $ work)/Bulter/Mirotic/Charlotte lottery pick deal in one of his recent columns. Knowing Mirotic isn't coming over this next season and that the Bobcats pick is more valuable the longer you wait to redeem it, is that enough to get Love?

A Rose/Love/Noah/Deng team would be quite interesting.
   1170. andrewberg Posted: April 29, 2013 at 01:32 PM (#4428151)
Simmons put a Love for Boozer (to make the $ work)/Bulter/Mirotic/Charlotte lottery pick deal in one of his recent columns. Knowing Mirotic isn't coming over this next season and that the Bobcats pick is more valuable the longer you wait to redeem it, is that enough to get Love?


This idea was the thing that made me start thinking about it. It's intriguing. I wish one of Butler/Mirotic was more of a sure thing.
   1171. AROM Posted: April 29, 2013 at 01:34 PM (#4428155)
I am extremely interested in what happens with the Lakers this offseason. It is so interesting because nobody knows what is going to happen with any of their four main players. Moreover, each domino weighs on how the others will fall. Count me as one who would be totally shocked if Kobe got amnestied. Also count me as one who would be totally shocked if Kobe played 60 productive games next year. The scenarios that grow out of that for next year and beyond are almost limitless.


My guesses -

Dwight - resigns late in free agency period, after summer of drama. Shows up to camp and immediately second guesses his decision.
Pau - traded - what they can get for him will decide if this team can contend
Kobe - comes back earlier than expected, but can't do things he did this year, and defense gets even worse
Nash - stick a fork in him as a fulltimer. Can contribute as a Steve Kerr type, nailing open 3's, while the contract lasts.
   1172. Jimmy P Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:05 PM (#4428497)
Primer retweet:

Brian Windhorst ?@WindhorstESPN 5m
Just filed to http://ESPN.com : Sources tell ESPN a committee of NBA owners voted against moving the Kings to Seattle today.


Clay Bennett screws Seattle again.
   1173. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4428499)
   1174. andrewberg Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:14 PM (#4428513)
Bummer not to have a team, but I am glad that a city with semi-legit investors gets to keep its own team. Hopefully the unanimous no vote (including a couple who seemed favorable before) hints at possible expansion.
   1175. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:16 PM (#4428516)
Congrats, Sacto!

Now which team moves to Seattle? Pacers? Bucks?
   1176. smileyy Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:29 PM (#4428539)
I think there would be real, actual bleeding if you ripped the Pacers out of Indiana.

How popular are the Suns in Phoenix, through these couple (and ongoing) dreck years? I have to admit, the "Seattle Suns" would be pretty ironic for the entire basketball season.
   1177. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:33 PM (#4428546)
How popular are the Suns in Phoenix, through these couple (and ongoing) dreck years?
Very popular. Also, no arena issues.
   1178. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:33 PM (#4428547)
Forgot to mention the Bobcats as a possible relocation target.
   1179. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:43 PM (#4428557)
bobcats was the first to come to mind. atlanta too.
   1180. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:44 PM (#4428558)
Pelicans?

---

Thinking out loud for a minute...the Bulls might be ok without Hinrich tonight, assuming NateRob isn't terrible Nate. The defense has been much better this series with Hinrich, but he really didn't slow down DWill last game. The Bulls went long stretches with NateRob "guarding" Wallace and didn't get burned. Butler can chase Deron around, he's had a little luck on PGs this year. I still say the Nets win and extend the series at least one game.
   1181. smileyy Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:44 PM (#4428559)
[1178] Whatever it takes to get the franchise out of Jordan's hands, huh?
   1182. smileyy Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:46 PM (#4428563)
[1180] Tu Holloway (5'11" PG lacking straight-line speed) is certainly no Deron Williams, but Jimmy Butler absolutely swallowed Holloway on D when Marquette beat Xavier in the NCAA tournament.
   1183. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: April 29, 2013 at 05:55 PM (#4428576)
Whatever it takes to get the franchise out of Jordan's hands, huh?
I find it incredibly odd that one of the game's most competitive players, as an owner, can't seem to be bothered to run his team. Interferes with tee times and such.
   1184. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: April 29, 2013 at 06:02 PM (#4428580)
atlanta too.
Atlanta has to be the nation's worst sports city that has had all four major leagues, right? No one cared when the Thrashers left and the Hawks' departure would be met with the same shrugs. Seems the only team anyone there cares about is the Falcons.
   1185. Jimmy P Posted: April 29, 2013 at 06:03 PM (#4428584)
Now which team moves to Seattle? Pacers? Bucks?


Gotta be the Bucks. Small city, old arena.

I can't see Indy or Charlotte letting those teams leave considering the amount of money the cities are paying for the arenas. Pretty sure that Milwaukee's arena is paid off, and Senator Kohl is getting up there. Benson owns the Pelicans now, and he owns the Saints. They aren't moving. What about Detroit? Seriously.
   1186. Booey Posted: April 29, 2013 at 06:11 PM (#4428591)
I have to admit, the "Seattle Suns" would be pretty ironic for the entire basketball season.


They'd be in good company, as the Los Angeles Lakers, Utah Jazz, and Memphis Grizzlies all kept original franchise names that no longer made sense when the teams moved. It happens.
   1187. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 29, 2013 at 06:36 PM (#4428605)
Any team that moves to Seattle will be called the Supersonics. The irony of Bennett being in charge of the relocation committee is one of Stern's better jokes on his customers. He is a real piece of shit.
   1188. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: April 29, 2013 at 06:44 PM (#4428613)
I cannot wait for Stern to leave. He's been in that job about 6 years too long.
   1189. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 29, 2013 at 06:58 PM (#4428634)
1184 - yup. The favorite team in town isn't even in town (SEC football).
   1190. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: April 29, 2013 at 07:01 PM (#4428636)
I wish one of Butler/Mirotic was more of a sure thing.

Well, if nothing else, Mirotic's guaranteed to increase your jersey sales to Korean girls.
   1191. theboyqueen Posted: April 29, 2013 at 07:42 PM (#4428694)
I hate the Maloofs. Someone, please offer a defense of them; I am truly curious.
   1192. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: April 29, 2013 at 07:52 PM (#4428706)
The Suns somehow moving to Seattle would be an extra kick in the pants for Phoenix, because I think the Coyotes are still the leading candidate to be the NHL team that Seattle steals.
   1193. The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season Posted: April 29, 2013 at 08:15 PM (#4428733)
I'm a little disappointed to Kings won't come here, but I didn't like feeling like we were stealing a team like we lost ours. We'll get one back here sooner or later.

Meanwhile, go Celtics! ....old, decrepit and trailing 3-1 though you may be.
   1194. Maxwn Posted: April 29, 2013 at 08:21 PM (#4428740)
Honestly, it seems to me like they should just expand. The concerns about over-expanding and weakening the financial strength of your league don't seem as strong when you have a market like Seattle waiting in the wings. The talent level of the league also seems high enough right now to survive a little dilution without too much trouble. If you're worried about having odd number of teams, put one in St Louis or Kansas City and move the Grizzlies to the East. Kansas City even has a fairly new arena already. I pretty skeptical that an expansion like that would be anything but a net positive to the overall finances and health of the league.

Mostly I just want the Grizzlies to get to move to the East, so moving any Eastern Conference team to Seattle is also acceptable to me, but I don't really want to see anyone lose their team, so expansion.
   1195. Spivey Posted: April 29, 2013 at 08:38 PM (#4428768)
The Bobcats should move. Charlotte wasn't meant for NBA basketball.
   1196. smileyy Posted: April 29, 2013 at 08:43 PM (#4428780)
The talent level of the league also seems high enough right now to survive a little dilution without too much trouble.


I think its already diluted enough that a little more won't matter. I don't think it will change the good player / great player / a couple great players dynamic of the league much.
   1197. Booey Posted: April 29, 2013 at 08:48 PM (#4428796)
Mostly I just want the Grizzlies to get to move to the East


Be nice for your team to jump from the 5th seed to the 2nd seed just like that, wouldn't it? :-D
   1198. JJ1986 Posted: April 29, 2013 at 08:49 PM (#4428798)
Charlotte wasn't meant for NBA basketball.


It was the best market in the game for a decade.
   1199. Maxwn Posted: April 29, 2013 at 08:50 PM (#4428801)
I think its already diluted enough that a little more won't matter.

Well, we seem to agree on the punchline, so I don't really feel like arguing about it, but the talent level of the league seems to me to be as high as its been in quite some time. I guess that's difficult to measure.
   1200. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 29, 2013 at 08:50 PM (#4428802)
I'd like expansion, but don't see it happening.

Not sure that the Charlotte market can't work. It would help if they could complete clean house...again.
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