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Monday, April 01, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the Oxford comma and unspeakable criminal acts.

 

The District Attorney Posted: April 01, 2013 at 11:27 AM | 1276 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   301. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 11, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4410867)
Flip
   302. Booey Posted: April 11, 2013 at 02:12 PM (#4410915)
You may be right, but ISTM that this just seems different because there is one spot open and the Lakers are in a fight for it. But I am not sure about that.


It seems different to me personally just cuz my team is one of the ones on the brink. I'd be just as disappointed if the Jazz had lost their spot to the Mavs as I would to the Lakers. You might be right in general, though.

I'd understand if the Rockets had nothing left to fight for by the last game and took it easy, cuz like I've mentioned, I'm holding out hope that Memphis does exactly that. It would bother me though if say, San Antonio tanked like Meatwad suggested when they haven't locked up their seed just to create favorable playoff matches. It would also really annoy me if the Warriors, Spurs, and Rockets had all been locked in place and rested their starters, basically rolling out a red carpet for the Lakers to waltz into the playoffs (and on the flip side, I'd understand if Laker fans were upset if the Wolves and Grizz allowed the Jazz to do the same). One playoff bound team in their final game tanking is common and understandable. But 3 in a row with playoff implications on the line is the type of thing I would hope Stern would step in and put a stop to. You know, basketball reasons and all.
   303. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: April 11, 2013 at 02:49 PM (#4410953)
Rose has to be done for the season by now right? I mean its only 5 games left I doubt he plays tonight. And no way does he come back in the playoffs thibs will run him 40 minutes if he does...
   304. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: April 11, 2013 at 02:51 PM (#4410955)
tough strech for the bulls to close the season games tonight and friday, then sun, mon, and wednesday
   305. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 11, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4410975)
Rose has to be done for the season by now right? I mean its only 5 games left I doubt he plays tonight. And no way does he come back in the playoffs thibs will run him 40 minutes if he does...

Him, Noah and Gibson are out. Deng is game time decision.

I actually wouldn't be shocked for him to come back in the playoffs; at this point, I'll be more shocked if he plays in any of the regular season games. And I wouldn't necessarily expect him to be on a minutes limit if he does.
   306. AROM Posted: April 11, 2013 at 04:08 PM (#4411049)
One playoff bound team in their final game tanking is common and understandable. But 3 in a row with playoff implications on the line is the type of thing I would hope Stern would step in and put a stop to. You know, basketball reasons and all.


I agree with you 100%. While I'm rooting for the Lakers, I would prefer the Jazz be the 8 seed than to see a case where my team makes it only because 3 teams in a row rest their starters while the Grizzlies beat the Jazz with a full lineup.

I actually wouldn't be shocked for him to come back in the playoffs; at this point, I'll be more shocked if he plays in any of the regular season games. And I wouldn't necessarily expect him to be on a minutes limit if he does.


He's probably not playing this year. But part of me wonders if Thibs is planning a trap. He'll announce a fully operational Rose 15 mineups before the start of game 1.
   307. rr Posted: April 11, 2013 at 06:50 PM (#4411182)
I didn't want to drag that aspect up out of respect for the resident Lakers fans, but since RR opened the door! It did occur to me that Dwight would be upset about the Kobe show, because that seems like exactly the kind of guy that Dwight is.


It is actually an analytical question in some ways, IMO, although it's always framed in terms of personalities. Howard and Pau were 20/26 last night, so should Kobe have taken 27 shots, even if he hit 14? OTOH, would Pau and Howard be so efficient with more shots, or are they getting cookies mostly because Kobe is going off and drawing the D? What is the right balance?

And I didn't stick the MWP rant in for chuckles: do guys stand around and watch because Kobe won't give them the rock, or does Kobe shoot all the time because guys are standing around?

I don't have the answers to any of these questions; my guess is that it varies from matchup to matchup and game to game. But I have always known that it is more complicated than "Kobe is a punk and a ballhog" or "Kobe is God in Sneakers and Howard and Pau (or Bynum, or Odom, or whoever it has been)are whiners."

I have seen some numbers that indicate that Pau and Kobe are more efficient on the block than Howard is, and my gut says that Howard really wouldn't do that great with more shots this year, on this team. But he is right about "slowing the game down", although I put that on MDA, not Kobe.
   308. RollingWave Posted: April 11, 2013 at 09:02 PM (#4411280)
I'd think the biggest issue with the Lakers is their disjointed team composition, your right that with Gasol and Howard they really should just slow it down and play like Memphis (except with Kobe starting plays instead of Conley) . But then the point of Nash becomes moot. if your going to run a MDA & Nash offense then having both Howard and Gasol on the floor is silly. right now even if they slow it down the fact that they're carrying 2 black holes on the perimeter means they'll either gets torched from deep or keep seeing Gasol and Howard trying in vain to cover for them and gets caught in no man's land (both happens on a regular basis.)

I think the bigger point that folks have overlooked is actually Steve Nash, if you can't get the most out of his offense, (which they can't right now because he's playing with Kobe and also because he's getting old.) then his defense becomes a serious liability. compounded even more by that Kobe also doesn't defend most of the time.

I'd guess they either need to move Gasol for a stretch 4 (that must be a pretty good perimeter defender) and play up tempo, or move Nash for a solid defensive guard and play slow. this half way approach kills them on both end.




   309. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 11, 2013 at 09:53 PM (#4411310)
Joey Crawford is a ####### embarrassment.
   310. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: April 11, 2013 at 10:07 PM (#4411318)
as usual the bulls arnt out of it yet...
   311. RollingWave Posted: April 11, 2013 at 10:42 PM (#4411338)
Bulls and Knicks, two slow team and one of them great defensively... and they're both over 100 points, huh?
   312. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 10:49 PM (#4411347)
The Nate Robinson Discount Quintuple Check is one of the greatest moments of this season.
   313. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: April 11, 2013 at 11:00 PM (#4411354)
this game is rather physical right now. good thing its almost over
   314. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 11, 2013 at 11:04 PM (#4411356)
The Bulls are better than the Knicks. They just are. And yet the Knicks are killing themselves trying to win a game that could make the Bulls their potential 2nd round matchup.
   315. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: April 11, 2013 at 11:07 PM (#4411358)
and a nice win for the bulls who were down noah, rose, and taj
   316. RollingWave Posted: April 11, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4411363)
The Knicks are a very high variance team, which might mean that they get bounced in 5 games in the first round or they push the Heat to 7. who knows (though the fromer is much more likely than the later). They're better than the Rose less Bulls talent wise, but the Bulls are like the Spurs, great system, can play a lot of decent players and still be really good. it really sucks that they don't have Rose this year
   317. Maxwn Posted: April 11, 2013 at 11:22 PM (#4411366)
Nate Robinson is the best. As a Nate myself, I say he is in the top 3 Nates of all time.
   318. RollingWave Posted: April 11, 2013 at 11:43 PM (#4411374)
Better than Nate Silver?
   319. Maxwn Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:30 AM (#4411416)
Hmm...I'm an economist, so I guess I should give the edge to the most famous stat nerd in the world, but I'm only a couple of inches taller than Nate Robinson and I would rather be able to dunk and occasionally score 35 pts in the NBA than create a reasonable poll aggregation model and predict elections.

Best Nates, All-Time
1) Dogg
2) Robinson
3) Thurmond
4) Silver
5) Archibald (I am penalizing him because I didn't know his name was Nate until now, I only ever heard Tiny. It's conceivable that recency bias is in play on Archibald and Thurmond, I know nothing much about them)
...
391) McLouth (he sucked on the Braves)
...
503) That one kicker for the Chargers or whoever

I am out of famous people named Nate that I can think of. I'm not on the list yet, but I think I can take McLouth and that kicker someday.

Edit: I am aware that both of the other basketball playing Nates are better at basketball than Nate Robinson. I'm giving him a boost for entertainment value. Also I'm considering kicking Tiny Archibald off the list entirely because his basketball reference page is listed under Tiny.
   320. Kurt Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:39 AM (#4411425)
Big Nate is one of the better mainstream comic strips.
   321. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:42 AM (#4411426)
Nathan Fillion?

And does the prophet Nathan not get a nod?
   322. Maxwn Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:53 AM (#4411432)
My list is excluding people who go by Nathan or Nathaniel because of reasons. Only people who go by Nate.
   323. andrewberg Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:58 AM (#4411435)
Nate McMillan should be on the list, maybe not top 5, but top 503 easily.
   324. Maxwn Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:00 AM (#4411437)
Nate McMillan should be on the list, maybe not top 5, but top 503 easily.

Good Point. I'll slot him in at 146.
   325. tshipman Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:49 AM (#4411448)
So I notice one thing that no one seems to be talking about w/r/t Kobe and his minutes played:

I'd be shocked to find out that he WASN'T on some kind of PED for the last year.
   326. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:04 AM (#4411454)
A guy I know said the same thing today. It wouldn't surprise me (and there are other NBA players that I would say the same about) but I don't see any point in speculating about it.
   327. RollingWave Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:49 AM (#4411463)
PED don't seem to have the same sort of traction in the NBA, but yeah it seems obvious some of those guys are taking it.

I think in the latest interview on Houston Radio Daryl Morey is basically half admitting that too. (though the subject was on coffee)

   328. bob gee Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:02 AM (#4411496)
(sarcasm)
ped, adderall, hrt, etc. aren't used in any sport except baseball, where they destroy the moral fiber of our youth, the country, and everyone who has either been born or will be born.

and cycling

(end sarcasm)

there's some interesting first round matchups and tank-like scenarios. rockets match up better against sas than okc/den, but if they win and golden state loses, they get #6 (den).

knicks match up better with atlanta (if they lose), but are currently set up for boston.

chicago wants to keep winning - think they match up better with nets (4) than indiana (3).

   329. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:46 AM (#4411562)
That was just a hella fun game last night. The Bulls don't usually play wide open like that, and with both teams not having any big men of significance healthy (yes, I'm saying Boozer wasn't significant - especially last night) there were tons of fun matchups (Boozer guarding Kidd) and tons of strategy. I never would have expected these Bulls to win that type of game, but Butler and NateRob were just amazing. By the end, even Joey Crawford couldn't ruin that.

chicago wants to keep winning - think they match up better with nets (4) than indiana (3).

Without a doubt. Too bad before last night, the Bulls got spanked by the Pistons and Raptors. They've had a greater variance that just about any team I can remember rooting for, even accounting for the roster differences game to game.
   330. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:51 AM (#4411568)
They've had a greater variance that just about any team I can remember rooting for, even accounting for the roster differences game to game.


Which doesn't make them unique in the East - see their opponents last night (HUGE variance; h/t to ROllinigWave since he mentioned it on this page already) and even a team like the Celtics.

Do the Nets scare anyone? I guess the Celtics don't match up too well with them, but then they wouldn't see the Nets until a Conference Finals series that has a -146% chance of happening unless Lebron gets hurt.
   331. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:18 AM (#4411611)
Nets: Probably not, but Deron Williams looks like he's gotten healthy - which is notable.
   332. JJ1986 Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:34 AM (#4411639)
Which team holds the Chicago/Atlanta tiebreaker?
   333. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:46 AM (#4411658)
Da Bulls.
   334. Booey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:26 AM (#4411710)
So I notice one thing that no one seems to be talking about w/r/t Kobe and his minutes played:

I'd be shocked to find out that he WASN'T on some kind of PED for the last year.


People only care about PED's in baseball. Even if it came out that this was true, it would be mostly shrugged off and forgotten in less than a month.
   335. Booey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:31 AM (#4411716)
My oldest brother's name was Nate, so he takes the top spot on my list.

Any NBA Jon's worth mentioning that are cool enough to challenge me for the top spot? It can't have the "h" in there. Too bad, or Stockton would take the top 10 spots.
   336. AROM Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:46 AM (#4411740)
Jon Barry? Good role player, giving you 3's off the bench, but not as cool as his dunk contest winning brother.
   337. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4411752)
Even if it came out that this was true, it would be mostly shrugged off and forgotten in less than a month.

If it were Enes Kanter or Derrick favors, sure. But not if it were Kobe or James.
   338. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4411760)
Jon Koncak?
   339. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4411796)
Primer RT (really liked this one):

@ZachLowe_NBA: Enjoyed [Steve] Kerr's line last night about how the Lakers are more frightening as an idea than actually good as a basketball team. Spot on.


   340. Booey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:58 PM (#4411847)
If it were Enes Kanter or Derrick favors, sure. But not if it were Kobe or James.


True, but how much of that is because those are two of the biggest lightning rods for haters, and so many people love to criticize them already at every opportunity? Would people care if it was a regular big name, like say, Kevin Love or Russell Westbrook - great players but ones that fans don't seem to have such extreme opinions about from either side of the spectrum? I'm not sure. We've seen big names in other sports linked to PED's (Ray Lewis) and no one seemed to care.
   341. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:33 PM (#4411889)
Lowe's Tweet shows the downside of having another Boston guy/Hater on Grantland, although I generally like Lowe and said at the time that I thought he was a good pick for that job.

As to Booey's point about PEDs, that is probably right, in that Love and Westbrook are not household names for casual fans, and not polarizing. But if were specifically Kobe or James, it would certainly be a big deal.



   342. AROM Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:42 PM (#4411897)
I'm not sure. We've seen big names in other sports linked to PED's (Ray Lewis) and no one seemed to care.


PED's only get traction when you use them to hit homers or strike out batters. Ray Lewis or anyone not in baseball is mostly OK. It might get you some negative pub, but it won't affect your legacy. Andy Pettitte is mostly OK. Great pitcher but not a big strikeout guy. People bend over backwards to not give him the same hate as Bonds/Clemens/McGwire. If Ichiro or Jeter tested positive, the writers would give it their best effort to come up with some sort of justification why they aren't as bad as Bonds & crew.
   343. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4411907)
Well, I agree with a lot of that, but:

a) Kobe is 4th in NBA history in scoring
b) A lot of his rep is based in durability/longevity
c) Some people measure his career against His Airness
d) A ton of people can't stand him
e) He plays for the Lakers

In James' case, his image has improved a lot, and I always thought a lot of the flack he took was unfair anyway. But a lot of his rep and greatness is based on his unique physical gifts, so if people thought that was "fake"....

I think the obvious analogy in terms of how people would feel about it is Bryant=Bonds James=ARod.

But I do agree that baseball ups the PED ante for a lot of folks.
   344. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4411910)
When asked why he decided to mimic the move multiple times throughout the game, Robinson confidently responded, "You've just got to let them know what's up."


I'm going to be very bummed when the Bulls cheap out and sign some other non-guaranteed minimum player to take Nate's spot next season.
   345. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4411917)
And I'd add that a lot of people, starting with Simmons, would immediately write off the Lakers' 2009 and 2010 titles.
   346. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4411919)
Moses,

If you were running the Bulls, how much $ do you think you'd be willing to give N8?
   347. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:05 PM (#4411938)
non-Booey Jonrank, NBA edition:
1 McGlocklin (3rd round pick turned All-Star)
2 Barry (bonus point for eventual alma mater, demerits for pro career)
3 Sundvold (if you wanted to give him video game bonus points to drive him to #1, that'd be fair)
4 Leuer
5 Scheyer
- Koncak

***

robinred, past stuff aside, there's nothing about Lowe's tweet that says 'hater' to me - line works if you make it a different franchise as well.
   348. andrewberg Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4411940)
I am not sure if anyone is still paying close attention to the Seattle/Sacramento negotiation. I get the impression that there is a legitmate split between the owners as Sacramento has worked hard to pull together about as much money as Seattle initially offered and Seattle has held its ground by saying that it has offered the same money with a better arena proposal, a better potential TV package, a larger fanbase, more national appeal, and a more stable ownership group (which is probably as important as anything to the rest of the owners). The elephant in the room is that Sacramento has scratched and clawed to "tie" the Seattle group's first offer, but Seattle could still increase its offer. It makes sense to wait until the 11th hour to preclude Sacramento trying to gather more money once again, and we know that guys like Hansen and Ballmer could easily put another $50m or more on the table if it means that much to them. I have a lingering suspicion that we will eventually see a bigger offer from the Seattle group that will make the decision a llittle easier for the other owners.
   349. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:11 PM (#4411954)
robinred, past stuff aside, there's nothing about Lowe's tweet that says 'hater' to me - line works if you make it a different franchise as well
.

Lowe is a good analyst, but I don't put "past stuff aside" and his Boston fandom affects how he talks about the Lakers, and he is enjoying mocking their failures (which is certainly his prerogative, particularly on his own Twitter account). It's not complicated, but if a Boston fan is going to re-Tweet it here, with Lowe now having a much larger audience (I am guessing--although SI.com is a big gig too)and being taken very seriously as an analyst, I am going to call it what I think it is. You are taking the term "hater" too seriously in this case, IMO. Sports-hating a "hateable" franchise and "hateable" player is not a character flaw, and neither is being a "fanboy."
   350. AROM Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:21 PM (#4411974)
And I'd add that a lot of people, starting with Simmons, would immediately write off the Lakers' 2009 and 2010 titles.


It's Simmons though, he already grasps at any straw to do that. To him 2009 only happened because of the KG injury, and 2010 only because of Perkins. Never mind that Bynum was hurt in 2008. Don't want to mess up the narrative.
   351. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:24 PM (#4411980)

It's Simmons though, he already grasps at any straw to do that.


Sure, but Simmons has a big audience.

One thing for sure: if Kobe ever does a fail a drug test, I am going to try to avoid commenting on it, here or elsewhere. But I am guessing that I won't be smart enough to hold myself to that.

348 was a good post, Andrew. Thanks.
   352. Booey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:27 PM (#4411986)
And I'd add that a lot of people, starting with Simmons, would immediately write off the Lakers' 2009 and 2010 titles.


Yeah, he'd list them as "footnote" seasons at the very least. But they'd be in good company, since he listed more than half the seasons in the last 15-20 years as "footnotes", IIRC.
   353. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4411990)
Yeah, he'd list them as "footnote" seasons at the very least


I agree that he'd take it a step further than that. He once wrote that a "Kobe Bryant blood-doping scandal" was on his "wish list" for things he'd like to see happen in sports.
   354. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4412036)
Lowe's Tweet shows the downside of having another Boston guy/Hater on Grantland, although I generally like Lowe and said at the time that I thought he was a good pick for that job


I know I have my own biases, but I really don't get where you're coming from here, rr. That's exacly what the Lakers are - you look at the roster and on the surface you go, "Wow, they have Gasol, and Kobe, and Howard, and even though he's not healthy right now, they have Steve Nash, and gosh, that team HAS to be good with all that talent, right?" And then you watch them play, and you'll agree with this I hope - while they can certainly score the ball, they have obvious holes we've discussed ad nauseam here (lack of perimeter D, exacerbated by coaching and Howard's health issues; depth; cohesion on offensive tactics), and it adds up to a team that is less than the apparent sum of their parts. Let alone that it wasn't even Lowe who said it, it was Steve Kerr.

You want to call someone a hater, feel free to do it to me. I'll readily admit I hate the Lakers. However, I agreed with Lowe in that it was a succinct way of summing up the Lakers roster and 2012-13 season. You can be a hater and also have (basically) objective thoughts about a team. If I wanted to be a hater and take a shot at something, I'd make fun of Kobe's stupid "I'm being intense!" face, or everything Dwight Howard does ever.

I don't know why people take everything Simmons says so seriously - I think it's reasonably clear when he's got the fan hat on vs. the analyst hat. Not to say he is by any means perfect at keeping the two apart - but I don't think it's as ridiculous as it is sometimes made out to be.
   355. JJ1986 Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4412040)
I don't know why people take everything Simmons says so seriously - I think it's reasonably clear when he's got the fan hat on vs. the analyst hat. Not to say he is by any means perfect at keeping the two apart - but I don't think it's as ridiculous as it is sometimes made out to be.


I think the footnote column was clearly supposed to be him wearing the analyst hat. It wasn't even really about the Lakers and Celtics; it was an excuse for why LeBron's presumptive upcoming championship wouldn't count, since Simmons was one of the guys who thought he lacked some innate ability to be a champion.
   356. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4412042)
   357. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:18 PM (#4412056)
I think the footnote column was clearly supposed to be him wearing the analyst hat. It wasn't even really about the Lakers and Celtics; it was an excuse for why LeBron's presumptive upcoming championship wouldn't count, since Simmons was one of the guys who thought he lacked some innate ability to be a champion.


I didn't think the analysis itself was the problem with that column - to me, the idea of writing it in the first place was the mistake. Either you only consider a scant few obvious examples like the 1978 Blazers, or you end up with like thirty of them. He did the latter, and it was just, well, silly.

And, while I am generally a Simmons defender and mostly loved his book (odd sexist bits aside), the whole "Secret" thing (relating to your comment about 2012 Lebron and his point of writing that column) came across as a bit silly and sort of obvious. Oh, really, Bill? Basketball is a team game and the best players should balance taking over the game with facilitating their teammates? You don't say...
   358. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:20 PM (#4412058)
Agree with every word of 354.
   359. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:23 PM (#4412063)
I really don't get where you're coming from here, rr.


You are defending a couple of Boston fans with national gigs.

"Wow, they have Gasol, and Kobe, and Howard, and even though he's not healthy right now, they have Steve Nash, and gosh, that team HAS to be good with all that talent, right?"


If you are just some random guy on the net, sure. Lowe emphatically is not some random guy on the net, and there were guys here, notably DK, and even including me, that cautioned people before the season about the Lakers' possibly having defensive problems that could drag them down. Kerr's audience is pretty much random guys on the net, but Lowe enjoyed Re-Tweeting it anyway--in part because he doesn't like the Lakers and is glad that they are not going anywhere, hence the idea that the team was "frightening."

Also, Lowe recently wrote yet another post going off on Kobe's D again, which was OK. Lakers Bloggers and fans have been doing that, too. But he showed his Green a little in how he did it, and Lowe is selling the idea that he is an analyst.

Is that a big deal? No, and certainly not to anyone other than Lakers fans. But the fact that you got a kick out of re-posting that Tweet here proves my point. I don't see your doing that if he had said it about Denver.

As to Simmons, one more time: the guy wrote a 700-page NYT bestseller covering the entire history of the game, runs a hugely popular website, appears on national TV every week, is connected to a lot of league bigwigs, and has a massive audience. Sure, he has his style, but I have never bought the idea that Simmons does not want to be taken seriously.





   360. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4412068)
And then you watch them play, and you'll agree with this I hope


Since a lot of the posts to that effect have come directly from me, I sure do.

And, like I said to DK, in terms of taking things too seriously, you are taking the "hater" jibe too seriously. Like I said, Lowe is a good analyst and seems like he would be a nice guy.
   361. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4412069)
You are defending a couple of Boston fans with national gigs.

I have never met or seen anyone as defensive or knowledgable about writers' fandoms than you. And you're a frickin Lakers fan! If you were a fan of a joke or irrelevant franchise like the Bobcats or Knicks, I'd understand the thin skin.

I honestly had no idea that Lowe was a Celtics fan until you started posting about, and I have not once seen or even perceived a Celtics fan bias in any of his analyst pieces. That tweet is totally harmless.

EDIT: Once again for the record, I hate the Celtics about 100x more than the Lakers.

If you were running the Bulls, how much $ do you think you'd be willing to give N8?

He probably deserves more than the minimum, so a 2 yr, $4mil or so deal doesn't seem outrageous to me.
   362. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4412089)
I have never met or seen anyone as defensive or knowledgable about writers' fandoms than you. And you're a frickin Lakers fan! If you were a fan of a joke or irrelevant franchise like the Bobcats or Knicks, I'd understand the thin skin.


And I have never dealt with anyone who was more easily flustered or irritated by that trait of mine than you are.

We have been down this road before, and I will say the same thing that I said the first time: when ESPN hires some Pistons and Knicks fans who have stuff going on with Jordan and dislike Chicago teams to run Grantland and True Hoop, and you laugh it off, or ignore it, or even the next time you don't defend the Bulls here (like post 232 of this thread), get back to me. Until then, feel free to talk about other stuff. I know where you stand on this; you comment on it every time it comes up.

I was mildly critical of a Tweet by Zach Lowe, whom I like, and I was mildly critical of one analytical piece he wrote, since I think both showed a bit of anti-Lakers bias, and that bothered me a little bit, solely because I am a Lakers fan.
   363. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4412107)
If you were a fan of a joke or irrelevant franchise like the Bobcats or Knicks, I'd understand the thin skin


That was a nice dig, Moses.
/biased

I was mildly critical of a Tweet by Zach Lowe, whom I like, and I was mildly critical of one analytical piece he wrote, since I think both showed a bit of anti-Lakers bias, and that bothered me a little bit, solely because I am a Lakers fan.

I get it - but, I agree with Moses, you *are* very sensitive to this sort of thing, more than the other Laker fans here. Abbott, okay, he was basically trolling Kobe fans for a while there. With Simmons, well, he's overt about hating the Lakers, so while as I've said I think you read too much into it sometimes, I do get where you're coming from, at least. With Lowe, though - I think you're more projecting where he's coming from. Please don't take that the wrong way; you're one of the best and most valuable posters on this thread and I'm (we're?) certainly not trying to insult you or something. However, I think we've all been called out one time or another on our biases/neuroses (examples: I'm a "Rondo and Garnett aren't dirty players!" apologist, STEAGLES being STEAGLES, various Knicks fans, Moses and Matt (madvillain) ######## about how unbearable their .800 WPct Bulls regular season was last year), and this happens to be yours. So be it.

Anyway, ultimately (and hopefully obviously), NBD. That's enough words for me about it.

I'll second the nice update on the Seattle/Sac situation, berg.
   364. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:10 PM (#4412113)
And I have never dealt with anyone who was more easily flustered or irritated by that trait of mine than you are.

We have been down this road before, and I will say the same thing that I said the first time: when ESPN hires some Pistons and Knicks fans who have stuff going on with Jordan and dislike Chicago teams to run Grantland and True Hoop, and you laugh it off, or ignore it, or even the next time you don't defend the Bulls here (like post 232 of this thread), get back to me. Until then, feel free to talk about other stuff. I know where you stand on this; you comment on it every time it comes up.


Hey, I let your first 5 posts on the subject today slide without comment. Next time, I'll try to see if I can wait until the 7th post to respond. Also, I really just wanted to get in that Knicks jab.
   365. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:12 PM (#4412116)
rr v. Lowe: What Joe said (and I think I took 'hater' in the spirit in which it was intended). Anyway, this is a non-issue.

I have the same take, andrew, on SAC/SEA.
   366. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:25 PM (#4412131)
With Lowe, though - I think you're more projecting where he's coming from.


Perhaps. Or maybe you are defending him because you're a Boston fan, and don't like the Lakers, and you are sensitive about criticism/defenses pointed in those directions. Most of this stuff is a two-way street.

It's not as if I said that Lowe is a moron or a clown, or that no one should read him. Yet four different guys felt it necessary to chime in and one got a little personal about it. Food for thought IMO if it is "no big deal"

And I will step back now, and move on.
   367. Booey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4412142)
I don't know why people take everything Simmons says so seriously - I think it's reasonably clear when he's got the fan hat on vs. the analyst hat.


I bought TBOB and enjoyed most of it very much. While analyst Simmons makes me roll my eyes sometimes (k, often), I actually like fan Simmons a lot. His columns are always good for a laugh, if nothing else (and not in the unintentional "this guy is terrible" sort of way). I mean, how many other columnists would post and answer a fan email like this? (from his latest mailbag):

Q: Do you get a boner every time you type Lebron James?
—Joseph Watley III

SG: Not every time.


Love it.


   368. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:37 PM (#4412145)
SG: Not every time.


Well, Simmons is over 40 now. Maybe he needs LeViagra.
   369. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:44 PM (#4412154)
Trivia from Thursday's TBJ that blew my mind: # of teams with the best regular season record in the league to MAKE the finals over the last nine seasons: one.
   370. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4412159)
I am pretty sure that number will increase this season.
   371. Spivey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4412160)
And I have never dealt with anyone who was more easily flustered or irritated by that trait of mine than you are.

Trust me, it's not just him. This isn't to say you're not a good and appreciated poster - because you are - but my thoughts echo Moses 100%.
   372. Booey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4412161)
Trivia from Thursday's TBJ that blew my mind: # of teams with the best regular season record in the league to MAKE the finals over the last nine seasons: one.


2008 Celtics?
   373. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:50 PM (#4412163)
2008 Celtics?

Correct.
   374. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:57 PM (#4412181)
meanwhile, their friday show talked about awards and got me thinking about 6th man of the year. i honestly don't know who merits it - they picked jr smith over jamal crawford, jarrett jack and others. (i think ryan anderson merits talk as well.)
what say ye?
   375. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:16 PM (#4412219)
How is Ryan Anderson not starting there?

   376. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4412233)
[375] Without checking the numbers, I think he was starting at first or maybe he was SUPPOSED to start but they decided they'd rather use him as a scorer off the bench because they wanted the Brow at the 4.
   377. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:32 PM (#4412243)
That make sense, but they signed him to a long term deal and just aren't good enough to need a scorer off the bench. I'd have wanted the two of them to play together as much as possible to determine if they could; and if they couldn't, to identify why and what they need to make it work. Anderson is their 2 highest paid player, after all.
   378. kpelton Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:54 PM (#4412259)
Trivia from Thursday's TBJ that blew my mind: # of teams with the best regular season record in the league to MAKE the finals over the last nine seasons: one.

Somebody didn't read my column a few weeks ago!

identify why and what they need to make it work

Isn't the main answer to this time? If Davis is diligent in the weight room, I think he can guard centers, but playing him there now won't necessarily help that happen any faster.

RE: Lakers, I think that sentiment should hold for anyone who wanted to see the four Hall of Famers come together and play beautiful basketball. That was the ideal, and it hasn't happened, which is a loss for the game.
   379. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:01 PM (#4412265)
Joe,

I emailed you off the grid about the meta stuff. My guess is that it went to your old email.

RE: Lakers, I think that sentiment should hold for anyone who wanted to see the four Hall of Famers come together and play beautiful basketball
.

Or "frightening" basketball, as the case may be. ;-)

The Lakers perimeter D is certainly frightening to those of us who like the team and want it to succeed.
   380. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:11 PM (#4412276)
Isn't the main answer to this time? If Davis is diligent in the weight room, I think he can guard centers, but playing him there now won't necessarily help that happen any faster.

Perhaps. I'm definitely overthinking this, but only because I haven't really seen them play much. Anderson is playing more minutes right now than Davis (less than 2 mins/game), though Davis has been hurt at times. How much have they played together this year*? Also, how many teams is Davis really at a big disadvantage against the other teams' center? I guess the lesser Lopez has been pretty good for them this year too, a decent big man rotation is nice to have. I guess it's just more of a surprise that he's coming off the bench is all, while still being pretty good.

*I assume this is findable on NBA Stats** cube or 82games. On 82games, only 3 of their top 20 5 man units have both players together, for a total of 156 minutes.
**On Stats Cube, the teams are listed alphabetically by location in the drop downs, but the Brooklyn Nets still fall between Minnesota and New Orleans, as if they were still in NJ.

Lakers, I think that sentiment should hold for anyone who wanted to see the four Hall of Famers come together and play beautiful basketball. That was the ideal, and it hasn't happened, which is a loss for the game.

This. I expected greatness, and a fun contrasting series between them and the Heat in the Finals.
   381. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:35 PM (#4412293)
RE: Lakers, I think that sentiment should hold for anyone who wanted to see the four Hall of Famers come together and play beautiful basketball


More beautiful: This year's Lakers, or the four Hall of Famers they had in 2003-2004?
   382. kpelton Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:50 PM (#4412301)
Looks like Anderson and Davis have played 698 minutes together.
   383. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 07:26 PM (#4412333)
Don't take it personally, Kevin - I haven't read much of anything lately that wasn't on this site or by following my twitter feed. So, uh, pimp your stuff!
   384. andrewberg Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:36 PM (#4412529)
8:22pm: The Seattle investors are contemplating upping their bid by $25MM in reaction to the competition from Sacramento, tweets Tony Bizjak of the Sacramento Bee.

   385. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:09 PM (#4412614)
   386. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:09 PM (#4412616)
8:22pm: The Seattle investors are contemplating upping their bid by $25MM in reaction to the competition from Sacramento, tweets Tony Bizjak of the Sacramento Bee


From Sacto's POV, this is a "menacing gesture."
   387. rr Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:30 PM (#4412657)
Kind of a wild night for Maxwn--close ones for MEM and for their antagonists.
   388. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:38 PM (#4412745)
Stephen Curry is... Wow. Somebody should totally guard that guy.
   389. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:43 PM (#4412749)
Pau is playing absolutely beautiful basketball.
   390. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:49 PM (#4412758)
Gasol is halfway towards a triple-double, and Curry is on his way to a 65-point effort. Muy macho.
   391. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:25 AM (#4412783)
The gaping difference between the perimeter games of the Lakers and Warriors is really showing. The Lakers can't guard GSW at all. Kobe's trying to do too much, and Meeks and Jamison might as well not be in the building.
   392. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:31 AM (#4412787)
Ugh. Long rebound, and it bounced between three Lakers. They flailed at the ball, but none of them moved their feet. Tired old men. The end is nigh.
   393. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:39 AM (#4412793)
42 points later, Stephen Curry sinks a three with nobody within ten feet of him.
   394. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:48 AM (#4412797)
Every time Kobe goes down with another injury in this game I hear Suzyn Waldman screaming in my ear. Seriously though, hell of an effort by Satan.
   395. Into the Void Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:49 AM (#4412798)
Stating the obvious here, but it is incredible that Kobe is still out there, much less hitting long 3's with a hand in his face. He can barely walk.
   396. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:53 AM (#4412801)
Kobe went until he couldn't go anymore. Damn.

EDIT: Who was the last guy to drop 50 in LA and NY in one season?
   397. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:55 AM (#4412802)
I have no idea how the Lakers are still in this game.
   398. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:59 AM (#4412806)
I don't want to start any ####, but...the FT disparity in this game...

EDIT: Warriors and Lakers have both taken 25 3s. Lakers have 48 FTs and GS has 16. And that foul call on Curry with 42 seconds to go on the screen was an abomination.
   399. Into the Void Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:05 AM (#4412812)
And that foul call on Curry with 42 seconds to go on the screen was an abomination.


Or how about the one where Kobe hurt his ankle and collapsed...and they called a foul on Barnes, who basically didn't even touch him?
   400. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:05 AM (#4412813)
Really nice victory by the refs against the Warriors tonight.

EDIT: Having Blake instead of Howard shoot those FTs at the end was ...something.
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