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Monday, April 01, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the Oxford comma and unspeakable criminal acts.

 

The District Attorney Posted: April 01, 2013 at 11:27 AM | 1276 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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Page 5 of 13 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 >  Last ›
   401. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:05 AM (#4412815)
Oy. Oy, oy, oy, oy.
   402. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:06 AM (#4412816)
Also, I had a discussion with a friend of mine earlier this year, can't remember if I mentioned it on here...but Steph Curry is the best shooter of all time.
   403. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:07 AM (#4412817)
Or how about the one where Kobe hurt his ankle and collapsed...and they called a foul on Barnes, who basically didn't even touch him?

I could have gone with that but I just wanted to go with the most recent of the many terrible foul calls on this night.
   404. AROM Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:08 AM (#4412819)
Wow, what a finish. Lakers desperate drive for the last playoff spot is giving us some exciting basketball. I wouldn't call it good basketball, but it is exciting.
   405. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:10 AM (#4412820)
Really nice victory by the refs against the Warriors tonight.
Cue up the NBA conspiracy theories!
   406. robinred Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:18 AM (#4412823)
Just for the record:

RANK FTA/OPP FTA

Lakers 1/2
Warriors 16/25

RANK 3PA

Lakers 4
Warriors 12

It is exciting, in the way that watching an old, wounded elephant trying to fight off a pack of hyenas is exciting, but I will be glad when the season is over.
   407. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:19 AM (#4412824)
Rumor is torn achilles tendon for Kobe.

EDIT: RANK 3PA

Lakers 4
Warriors 12
Not sure how this is relevant when we see both teams took the same amount of 3s tonight.
   408. robinred Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:22 AM (#4412826)
   409. robinred Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:26 AM (#4412829)
Not sure how this is relevant when we see both teams took the same amount of 3s tonight


The Lakers taking a lot of 3s and getting to the line a lot is pretty much what they do every game, which makes sense if you look at their personnel. The refs may have screwed the Warriors in this particular game, I am not going to get into that. But the Lakers having as many 3PAs as the other team while Kobe and Howard shoot a ton of FTs, and the other team gets a lot more FGAs and tries to run them to death is just another night at the office.
   410. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:31 AM (#4412832)
[409] No snark, thanks for the explanation, helped me understand why you posted the stats you did.
   411. robinred Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:35 AM (#4412834)
Kobe: “I can’t. I can’t walk. There’s just nothing there. I made a move I’ve made a million times, and (the Achilles) just popped."
   412. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:35 AM (#4412835)
Angels now with the worst record in the American League. Kobe Bryant's season is over.

I really need to find a hobby that gives me some tiny shred of joy.
   413. robinred Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:42 AM (#4412838)

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer
Kobe on the next step: "MRI, surgery and recovery. That's it."


   414. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:45 AM (#4412843)
RT @mcten: Pau Gasol has tears in his eyes as he talks about Kobe: "He doesn't deserve it"


RT @netw3rk “Kobe! Kobe! No, no…you’ll be back!” “Thanks. I’m sorry, you are?” “It’s…Pau, man.” “Ahhh, thanks, Paul.”


Netw3rk is the funniest person I've never met.
   415. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: April 13, 2013 at 02:31 AM (#4412870)
I really need to find a hobby that gives me some tiny shred of joy.
mohel?
   416. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 13, 2013 at 03:02 AM (#4412873)
I said joy, not boy.
   417. robinred Posted: April 13, 2013 at 03:14 AM (#4412875)
kpelton Kevin Pelton
Back from Portland. Whatever happens going forward, glad I saw a vintage performance from No. 24 in person on Wednesday.
   418. bob gee Posted: April 13, 2013 at 08:20 AM (#4412898)
i really hope kobe comes back. i've never been a big fan - respected his hard work and skills, but thought he was really selfish and a lot of other negative stuff.

much of that (off-court) negative stuff probably holds true, but he's been playing so well for his age and condition this year, and his switch from all-kobe shooting to facilitator (well, at least a fair amount of the time) has been pretty amazing to watch.

on a similar note to too many minutes: houston runs lin and harden for 45 and 44 minutes. incredibly physical game on both sides.
and just noticed that golden state popped out lee, curry and klay for more than 42 minutes each. that's just nuts, esp. when the game does not have any real importance.
   419. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: April 13, 2013 at 08:24 AM (#4412901)
That sucks re: Kobe.
Netw3rk is pretty great.
   420. JuanGone..except1game Posted: April 13, 2013 at 08:42 AM (#4412908)
Just sick about the Kobe injury. Hopefully Bean makes it back in a Mariano Rivera way at least for a season. This has been probably the least watchable season for me personally (cry me a river, i know), except for the Kobe performances of late. I'll take some of the Sedalle Threatt years over watching this team struggle night in and night out to barely escape with wins over the T-wolves.

Welcome home, Brian Shaw


Shaw is Patient Zero for the current problems. All Buss had to do was make the easy and obvious decision and the Lakers are at a completely different place today.
   421. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 13, 2013 at 09:42 AM (#4412921)
Awful for Kobe. Just awful. Hate seeing those injuries.
   422. AROM Posted: April 13, 2013 at 11:03 AM (#4412955)
Can the Lakers sign Stephen Jackson for the last 2 games? Should they?
   423. andrewberg Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4412993)
If Kobe is out next year, how does Dwight respond? It becomes his team, but a worse version of it. Also, does this change the calculus of shopping Pau?
   424. Into the Void Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:00 PM (#4413007)
Can the Lakers sign Stephen Jackson for the last 2 games? Should they?


They could, but he wouldn't be eligible for the playoffs.
   425. andrewberg Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:16 PM (#4413019)
If the Lakers amnesty Kobe and trade Pau into open cap space, could they sign Dwight and CP3, then bring Kobe back when he's healthy? I suppose the obstacle would be Kobe clearing amnesty waivers.
   426. robinred Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:19 PM (#4413022)
They can sign SJax, but as I understand it, he would be ineligible for the playoffs, even with the injury exception, due to his date of release, although I am not sure about that. It would be sort of cool to sign him to have him play games 82 and 81.

As to how it affects the long-term, I think it obviously increases the chances that D'Antoni will get fired. That may not be fair, but that is how it is. A lot of the fanbase will blame D'Antoni for this, and the PR of bringing Phil back, or at least Shaw (maybe with Fisher as one of his assistants, or as an FO guy) would be a big boost to morale, etc.

Howard, of course, has a chance to be a hero now, and he has a chance to show everybody that "playing the right way", (getting the ball to him more) as he has said about 20 times, is the way to go on-floor. If he can go all beasty in the last two and get the team in, then do it again and help make SA or OKC work in RD 1, and then stays (maybe at an emotional presser with an on-crutches Vino making a cameo) LA fans will warm to him. Supposedly, as seems obvious, Howard really likes being a celeb in LA--club scene, hanging in Malibu and Newport Beach (where he lives) hobnobbing with other celebs, dating models, etc--but clearly does not like the actual Lakers team that he plays for.

So, I could see this pushing him to stay, since he will be centerstage and sometimes people come together when bad things happen. Or, I could see him deciding that the Lakers are fcuked and that he would rather go play for Mark Cuban.

The other question this raises is amnestying Kobe. They obviously could not do it, in practice, unless Kobe agreed, and so there is little chance that it will happen, but if he is going to miss the whole year, he then could re-sign with the Lakers for the 14-15 season (as per Adande--I am assuming he is right) and of course the 30M is Kobe's, contractually, either way. Including the tax, amnestying Kobe would save the Lakers something like 45M.





   427. puck Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4413055)
So, we don't know the severity of Kobe's injury, but I guess otherwise, could Chauncey Billups be a good analog given his age at the time of the injury? Looks like a lot of the other Achilles cases (Pelton article) happened to younger players, or a while ago when medical practices may have been different.

   428. outl13r Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4413078)
Who gets back on the court for an NBA game sooner: Kobe or DRose?

In all seriousness, this injury really sucks. Kobe's Superman run to try and will the Lakers to the playoffs was a fun ride.

Howard, of course, has a chance to be a hero now, and he has a chance to show everybody that "playing the right way", (getting the ball to him more)...


Agreed. What are the chances that Nash comes back for Sunday's tilt against SA? If Nash plays, I think rr is right on re: 426 & pushing SA/OKC in the first round.

edited for clarity.
   429. AROM Posted: April 13, 2013 at 02:12 PM (#4413108)
I realize Stephen Jackson would not be able to play in the playoffs. I've long lost any illusion that the Lakers would do anything in the playoffs, the battle to get there is all we have this season.

Updated playoff odds: My normal method to compute game odds is to say, if the Lakers are a .538 team, then they are .588 at home and .488 on the road. I'm taking a very arbitrary .100 off for not having Kobe, and the numbers still say Lakers are favored at 70/30 odds. They have 2 games and just have to match Utah to stay ahead.

The picture for each game is getting clearer:

Utah at Min: Utah favored at 56%. This is far from a gimme, as the Wolves came very close to beating Utah on the road, and get to repeat the effort on their court.

Utah at Mem: Utah underdogs, 25%. As of now there is no reason to think Memphis will give anything less that 100%. They are tied with Denver for #3, and the difference between getting the 3 seed and 5 seed is HUGE. Denver holds the tiebreaker against the Griz. If the Griz lose at Dallas, while Denver wins at Milwaukee, then it's over and I'd expect Griz to tank game 82.

SAS at LA: Lakers underdogs, 30% to win. SAS likely will rest or play limited minutes for starters, but their depth and Lakers lack of same means San Antonio is heavily favored.

HOU at LA: Lakers underdogs, 48%. But close enough to a tossup.
Hou at LA:
   430. robinred Posted: April 13, 2013 at 02:41 PM (#4413141)
Thanks for the odds reports; they are informative, although it is sort of hard for me to emotionally get into battling for the 8th seed after Bryant's injury.

As outl13r points out, Nash will have an effect on this thing now. If he can't go, the Lakers could easily lose both games. But, assuming Minnesota goes hard, and they seem to be doing so, to their credit and to Adelman's, Utah could go 0-2 as well.
   431. bob gee Posted: April 13, 2013 at 03:28 PM (#4413195)
this falls at least somewhat back on kupchak's shoulders.

he's known since earlier in the season that they'd need a deeper bench. and now that kobe and nash are out, will duhon get the chance to play?

upside for lakers fans: duhon was a good player with pick and rolls.

   432. PJ Martinez Posted: April 13, 2013 at 03:49 PM (#4413221)
...of course the 30M is Kobe's, contractually, either way. Including the tax, amnestying Kobe would save the Lakers something like 45M.

If he gets the 30m either way, how do the Lakers save 45m?
   433. robinred Posted: April 13, 2013 at 03:56 PM (#4413237)
4. Should the Lakers consider using the amnesty clause on Kobe?
Factors the Lakers might consider in making a decision this offseason:
• Bryant will be 35 in August.
• He will be in the final year of his contract.
• The Lakers could save an estimated $80 million in luxury tax.
• He might miss all of next season or a large portion of it.
• Achilles injuries are notoriously difficult to overcome.
• L.A. could sign Kobe in the summer of 2014, even after using the amnesty clause in 2013.

Adande: Yes. It's best for everyone involved. It wouldn't be fair to ask the Lakers to take a hit of almost $80 million, including the luxury tax penalties, to get Kobe's services for a couple of months or so. Either way, Kobe gets to pocket his $30 million.

He can take a full year to rehabilitate, then come back and sign a new contract with the Lakers. It was a scenario at least worth considering when Mark Cuban mentioned it before the injury, even if it didn't seem likely. Now it's a no-brainer. It's the most practical move for a franchise that suddenly needs to think about the bottom line, not championship parade possibilities


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130413/kobe-play-again-lakers-experts-weigh-in
   434. PJ Martinez Posted: April 13, 2013 at 03:57 PM (#4413239)
80m! Wow.
   435. PJ Martinez Posted: April 13, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4413246)
This has nothing to do with Kobe's injury, so please nobody take this the wrong way, but, with just a few games left, where does 2012-13 rank among the best NBA regular seasons of all time? Seems like it should be pretty high to me (but I can't really speak to pre-1985 or so).
   436. andrewberg Posted: April 13, 2013 at 04:23 PM (#4413259)
If Kobe got amnestied, someone would bid on him through amnesty waivers, and the early reports are that he'll be back for some of next year, even if not at 100%. Would he suit up for 25 rehab games in Dallas or Brooklyn? Would the Lakers pay the bill to prevent that? That could get weird.
   437. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: April 13, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4413289)
If Kobe got amnestied, someone would bid on him through amnesty waivers, and the early reports are that he'll be back for some of next year, even if not at 100%. Would he suit up for 25 rehab games in Dallas or Brooklyn? Would the Lakers pay the bill to prevent that? That could get weird.


You know how Bill Simmons is always going on about athletes playing better when they want revenge for being underestimated? I think he's usually full of nonsense on this topic. However, I would not want to be the Lakers playing Kobe after cutting him.
   438. robinred Posted: April 13, 2013 at 09:22 PM (#4413471)
Kobe or DRose?


Vitti said Bryant would be immobilized for at least a month after surgery. If Bryant were to recover on the short end of the six-to-nine month timetable the team provided, he might be able to play at the start of the 2013-14 season.

"That's the plan," Vitti said.
   439. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4413649)
If the Lakers amnesty Kobe and trade Pau into open cap space, could they sign Dwight and CP3, then bring Kobe back when he's healthy? I suppose the obstacle would be Kobe clearing amnesty waivers.

As others have hinted at, an amnestied player cannot return to the team that amnestied them for a year. But there is 0% chance Kobe would pass amnesty waivers; I bet nearly every team with space would put in a bid even with the injury (think of him playing for MJ in Charlotte). And then to re-sign with the Lakers, he'd have to take a HUGE hometown discount (depending on what the Lakers do with their roster between then and now).

Kobe or DRose?

Vitti said Bryant would be immobilized for at least a month after surgery. If Bryant were to recover on the short end of the six-to-nine month timetable the team provided, he might be able to play at the start of the 2013-14 season.


So the serious answer is which team between the Bulls and Lakers have their first game next season.
   440. outl13r Posted: April 14, 2013 at 01:07 PM (#4413747)
So the serious answer is which team between the Bulls and Lakers have their first game next season.


Unless the Lakers make the Finals. With the length of the playoffs and Kobe's Wolverine-esque ability to recover, I would expect him to play in the Finals or kill himself trying.
   441. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 14, 2013 at 01:10 PM (#4413750)
But there is 0% chance Kobe would pass amnesty waivers; I bet nearly every team with space would put in a bid even with the injury (think of him playing for MJ in Charlotte).

I think the 76ers should acquire this Lakers star player despite his potential season-ending injury. What could go wrong?
   442. robinred Posted: April 14, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4413837)
Tom Ziller explains why amnestying Kobe almost certainly won't happen. Amin Elhassian at ESPN Insider put together a hypothetical case for it, but like I said in 426, "in practice" it is pretty much a no-go.

link
   443. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: April 14, 2013 at 09:14 PM (#4414145)
   444. RollingWave Posted: April 14, 2013 at 09:33 PM (#4414158)
If the Lakers amnesty Kobe and trade Pau into open cap space, could they sign Dwight and CP3, then bring Kobe back when he's healthy? I suppose the obstacle would be Kobe clearing amnesty waivers.


This NBA cap thing I simply can't get a grasp of, what is the limit next year? 60? and what exactly is the team allowed to do or not do? looking at the Rockets, I guess I can see how that works, they let Garcia go and assuming they'd trade Asik if Howard signs. will be able to free up roughly about 20m. but the Lakers, assuming they Amnesty Kobe and manage to trade Gasol for no contract coming back, will still be at round 30m, so they're going to sign CP3 AND Howard with 30 million? and then what.. have a 7 man roster?



   445. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: April 14, 2013 at 10:32 PM (#4414206)
As tough as the pacers are,I like the idea of the bulls as the 6th seed. if by some magic chance rose comes back, it gives them the most possible time to play himself into top shape if they make it to the conference finals.
   446. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: April 14, 2013 at 10:34 PM (#4414208)
Adrian Wojnarowski ?@WojYahooNBA 2m

Doug Collins has informed the Philadelphia 76ers that he will not return as coach next season, a league source told Yahoo! Sports
   447. RollingWave Posted: April 14, 2013 at 10:57 PM (#4414218)
The odds are pretty bad for the Jazz if the Lakers win this one right? they'll need to win both and the Lakers need to lose to Houston if that's the case.

Then again, Kevin McHale is probably serious when he says he isn't going to rest starters, he just played Lin and Harden both like 38 minutes last game again Memphis, and played all the starters close to 30 today in a blowout against the Kings.

   448. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:47 PM (#4414232)
If the Lakers hold on for another 40.6 seconds, that's definitive proof that God is a Laker fan.
   449. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:49 PM (#4414233)
... and 40.6 game seconds later, we have proof!
   450. RollingWave Posted: April 14, 2013 at 11:55 PM (#4414235)
Interesting... hope Jazz win against the Wolfs then we have a final game clinch coming up.
   451. OCF Posted: April 15, 2013 at 12:04 AM (#4414239)
That's a pretty epic set of guards: Steve Blake and Jodie Meeks, backed up by Darius Morris. And yet somehow Tony Parker shot 1 for 10.
   452. AROM Posted: April 15, 2013 at 09:01 AM (#4414334)
That was the best defensive effort shown by the Lakers all year. Probably a combination of having a motivation to put forth that effort, and by using more players than usual, they had fresher legs on the court. Ball movement looked good. Lakers looked like an actual team for once. Steve Blake can actually do stuff other than stand around waiting for an open 3?

Spurs shooting was off, but they played their starters, Duncan was awesome, and Lakers pulled it off. All right, bring on the playoffs! Too bad they've likely pushed SA into the 2 seed, the matchups with OKC are much worse.
   453. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 15, 2013 at 10:50 AM (#4414395)
[452] I'm interested in how the Lakers play defensively without Kobe.
   454. andrewberg Posted: April 15, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4414465)
It doesn't seem very likely, but the thing I want to see most of all is for Melo and Durant to have a final day scoring duel where each tries to win the scoring title.
   455. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 15, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4414483)
Fair warning as the playoffs (and a Celtics/Knicks series) approach: There's a guy I know at my company who is:

a) the bandwagoniest of bandwagony Knick fans
b) not knowledgeable at all about the NBA
c) Prone to sending taunting/obnoxious e-mails about how the Knicks are not only going to beat the Celtics, they are going to win the title

Today he just walked by my desk giggling (which admittedly doesn't make a whole ton of sense).
Anyway, so, my apologies in advance if the Knicks start winning and I lash out at anyone. :-)

   456. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 15, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4414485)
So, my apologies in advance if the Knicks start winning and I lash out at anyone. :-)

You misspelled "when."
   457. GregD Posted: April 15, 2013 at 12:53 PM (#4414518)
It doesn't seem very likely, but the thing I want to see most of all is for Melo and Durant to have a final day scoring duel where each tries to win the scoring title.
I think they should do the scoring title by total points not points per game. Durant has that one easy.
   458. andrewberg Posted: April 15, 2013 at 01:18 PM (#4414557)
Scoring titles that would have changed if measured by total points. (PPG leader in parentheses).

08- Kobe (Lebron)
04- Garnett (McGrady)
03- Kobe (McGrady)
02- Pierce (Iverson)
01- Stackhouse (Iverson)
99- Shaq (Iverson)
86- English (Dominique)
85- Jordan (King)
70- Kareem (West)
68- Bing (Oscar)
48- Zaslovsky (Fulks)

It's funny that it happened five times from 1947-1998, then five more times in the next six years. Obviously, the fragile proficiency of Iverson and T-Mac had a lot to do with that.
   459. GregD Posted: April 15, 2013 at 01:30 PM (#4414586)
If you generated that list by memory, drinks are on me. Zaslovsky?

Knocking out McGrady and Iverson--fine players--for Garnett, Kobe, Pierce, and Shaq seems great though Stackhouse less so.
   460. smileyy Posted: April 15, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4414604)
Would Garnett's career perception change if he had a scoring title? Probably not, but I never even considered that he was in contention for it.
   461. AROM Posted: April 15, 2013 at 02:21 PM (#4414708)
Would Garnett's career perception change if he had a scoring title? Probably not, but I never even considered that he was in contention for it.


Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem like anybody cares that much about who wins the scoring title. Maybe momentarily for fans of the guy who wins it, but then you move on to more important things. Once the season's over the perception of Carmelo Anthony will be for what he does or doesn't do in the playoffs, and not whether he scored 2/10 of a point per game more than Durant.
   462. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 15, 2013 at 02:24 PM (#4414712)
You misspelled "when."


Yeah, well...
   463. andrewberg Posted: April 15, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4414773)
Here is some more info on what to expect from Melo vs. Durant in the last two. The Knicks are locked in at the two seed, so it is possible Melo rests for the last two. If he does not play, he finishes with 28.65672 PPG. Durant would have to score 99 points combined in his last two games to top that.

If Melo scores 30 in each of the last two games, his average is 28.69565. To beat that, Durant would have to score 102 points total in his last two games.

In other words, Melo is probably safe right now. Also, OKC still has to clinch the one seed, so Durant couldn't purely gun even if he chose to just yet. On top of that, I get the feeling that Durant wouldn't mind letting someone else win the scoring title so people pay some attention to the fact that he's up close to 8 RPG and 5 APG.
   464. JJ1986 Posted: April 15, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4414782)
Melo is definitely not playing tonight.
   465. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 15, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4414784)
[463] Melo isn't playing tonight.
   466. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 15, 2013 at 03:28 PM (#4414808)
Given what just happened in Boston, it's marginally possible nobody plays tonight.
   467. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 15, 2013 at 03:38 PM (#4414823)
I think they should do the scoring title by total points not points per game.


This never occurred to me but it seems like a no-brainer. In baseball, you need to use BA because players get such different numbers of PAs due to lineup construction, but basketball has no such considerations (well, OK, pace is a factor, but I doubt pace-adjusted scoring title is going to be a thing any time soon). Right now it looks like there is a 70 game minimum.

Why did they change this in 1968?
   468. smileyy Posted: April 15, 2013 at 04:23 PM (#4414871)
[467] Baseball has walks to consider too. Batting average is a significant portion of "not making an out", which is fundamental to baseball's "minimzation of outs" offensive strategy.

I suppose basketball has "efficient usage" as a strategy, but neither points scored nor PPG factor that in, so that's not an argument either way.

Baseball also doesn't have the "usage vs. efficiency" reverse correlation. Giving a guy more ABs isn't going to change his batting average up or down -- with the exception of the NL's #8 hitter, who sees a lot of intentional walks.
   469. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 15, 2013 at 04:42 PM (#4414900)
The real reason to change the scoring title thing IMO is that, suppose we have a player coming back from a mild injury. If he works his way back into the lineup, playing 15 minutes in a game, his scoring average goes down, but if he sits out that game entirely it doesn't. Granting that this is a minor thing and nobody really cares about the scoring title, it seems weird to reward a player for sitting out completely instead of playing 15 minutes.
   470. AROM Posted: April 15, 2013 at 04:42 PM (#4414902)
Scoring title in basketball, whether you did it by total points or PPG, is the equivalent of awarding the batting title to the player with the most hits in a season. Both potentially create disincentives if viewed as a goal in themselves.

In basketball you've got the gunner, taking crazy shots instead of passing to his wide open teammates. In baseball, you've got the hacker, passing up ball 4 so he can try to slap a pitch 1 foot outside for a potential hit (but probably an out).

Points does have an advantage over batting average though, in that it at least doesn't treat basket types as equals. So it's more akin to total bases, where hits would = field goals made.

   471. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 15, 2013 at 04:46 PM (#4414906)
Scoring title in basketball, whether you did it by total points or PPG, is the equivalent of awarding the batting title to the player with the most hits in a season. Both potentially create disincentives if viewed as a goal in themselves.


That's gonna be true of pretty much everything except a perfect WAR metric though. With batting average, you might have a player, call him I. Suzuki -- no, that's too obvious, Ichiro S. -- who could hit 40 home runs in a season, but chooses not to because he cares more about batting average.
   472. RollingWave Posted: April 15, 2013 at 08:58 PM (#4415196)
Kevin McHale hasn't really rested the Rocket's starter much, everyone still played 20-30 last night in a blowout against the Kings, so the odds are he's not really going to limit his starter too much in the final games, yeah you probably won't see 40 minutes of James Harden , but 32 minutes is still very likely.

I'm also interested to see what happens now that they have neither of the blackhole defense Lakers guards in the lineup. the current lineup seems to be not much better than the Dwight era Magics though. but maybe having a good Pau in there would make a difference

   473. smileyy Posted: April 15, 2013 at 09:22 PM (#4415230)
Neither Harden nor Lin have many miles on them -- I think that has a lot to do with it.
   474. Spivey Posted: April 15, 2013 at 09:38 PM (#4415252)
Has this season changed people's mind on Harden vs. Westbrook?
   475. RollingWave Posted: April 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM (#4415277)
Harden has had a better year, though not by a wide margin, and Westbrook show that he can defend better which helps. I think it'll really go down to how the Thunder do in the playoffs, if they win it all they probably vindicated that they made the right choice, if they make the finals but lose it's probably a wash, if they don't make it there the question would be more interesting . (which is a risk, the West as always is deep as hell.)

Rocket's season have already been a wild success, anything more they get from this point forward is just gravy. (as long as no one gets seriously hurt of course)
   476. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM (#4415278)
As tough as the pacers are,I like the idea of the bulls as the 6th seed. if by some magic chance rose comes back, it gives them the most possible time to play himself into top shape if they make it to the conference finals.

This is very dumb.
   477. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 15, 2013 at 10:14 PM (#4415290)
Wild day in Boston. I work 3 blocks from where the 1st bomb went off. Needless to say, that was pretty much the end of getting any work done.

Celtics/Pacers is cancelled tomorrow night, and so for the first time since the NBA went to 82 game schedules, two teams will play only 81.
   478. robinred Posted: April 15, 2013 at 10:23 PM (#4415299)
Thoughts going out to Joe C, PJ, jmurph and all our Boston guys. Hope everyone is safe (assume some of you guys live in Boston).
   479. Booey Posted: April 15, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4415316)
Seconded rr's 478.

While the odds of the Jazz still making the playoffs have to be really low by this point, I give props to my boys for taking the fight down to the final game and not giving up when they looked dead in the water a few weeks back. They're now 9-2 in their last 11 after that horrid 3-12 stretch, including 3-0 on the road, where they hadn't even won two straight at any other point in the season.

Memphis's win though keeps them alive in the battle with the Clips for 1st round HC, making Wednesdays finale vs the Jazz a must win rather than a possible tank job. Ah well.

So, so close...sigh...
   480. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: April 15, 2013 at 10:48 PM (#4415321)
This is very dumb.
nope. it has nothing to do with the pacers or the knicks or the nets/hawks/celtics/bucks and everything to do with avoiding the heat as long as possible. if you get the 5 seed and play the nets, that's definitely an easier matchup than the pacers, but it also means playing the heat in round 2.

on the other hand, the pacers are a much tougher opponent (by measure of SRS at Bask-ref, if not overall record), but playing them in round 1 means that you won't play the heat until the conference finals, if you make it that far.

and if you get rose back for that series....well, you still probably lose in 5 games, but at least you might be able to win if lebron gets radiation poisoning and wade gets sucked into a bottomless pit and bosh gets addicted to nerve tonic and chalmers touts pitt the elder and ray allen gets stuck pulling furniture/cats out of a burning building and shane battier doesn't shave his ####### sideburns mattingly and udonis haslem gets charged with 142 muders and....so on.
   481. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: April 15, 2013 at 11:39 PM (#4415349)
Moses, it just might be.
   482. bob gee Posted: April 16, 2013 at 12:33 AM (#4415376)
mchale keeps harden and lin on the bench until the 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter.

then he runs harden/lin/beverley/parsons / delfino.
awful.
   483. RollingWave Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:11 AM (#4415388)
a WTF game, the Rockets simply play like #### this year on the back end of a b2b. you'd figure a young team should do better there.

Harden was 0 for the century from down town today.
   484. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:23 AM (#4415402)
Anthony (and other players) resting may have been meaningless for the Knicks, but it was really bad for the Bobcats, who won their second straight to pull into a tie with Orlando. Granting that this year's draft class is far less top-heavy than most, the final games for Charlotte and the Magic may be interesting watches as the two teams vie for the most ping-pong balls in the lottery -- Charlotte hosts Cleveland (which is one game ahead of Phoenix for the 3rd worst record) while Orlando plays at a presumably resting Heat.
   485. jmurph Posted: April 16, 2013 at 08:28 AM (#4415440)
Thoughts going out to Joe C, PJ, jmurph and all our Boston guys. Hope everyone is safe (assume some of you guys live in Boston).


I live far away now, but this is much appreciated nonetheless. And I'll echo RR's words to anyone else in or from the area.
   486. robinred Posted: April 16, 2013 at 09:19 AM (#4415475)
So, if the Lakers beat Houston, Lakers are 7 and Houston is 8. If Houston beats the Lakers and Memphis beats Utah, Houston is 7 and Lakers are 8. If Houston beats the Lakers and Utah beats Memphis, Houston is 7 and Utah is 8.

As I said, I would rather that the Lakers get in simply due to the fact that they traded the pick for Nash, but the playoff spot clearly matters far less than what happens with Howard, Bryant now, and D'Antoni does.
   487. AROM Posted: April 16, 2013 at 09:34 AM (#4415482)
If Lakers win against Houston, they get San Antonio. Maybe I'm overreacting but I see a glimmer of postseason hope there. Especially if the new defensive minded Lakers we saw the other night wasn't a fluke, or all due to the Spurs being exceptionally unlucky in their shooting. Not that an upset is a great possibility, but maybe a 10% chance, where against OKC they'd have more like a 2% chance. I don't see the Spurs running them to death like OKC, or the Clippers would.
   488. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: April 16, 2013 at 10:16 AM (#4415513)
There's a few potential All-Stars in this year's draft. I am the world's worst talent scout (I thought Ed Cota would have a 10-year career), but Nerlens Noel, Ben McLemore, Shabazz Muhammed, and Victor Oladipo all look like NBA starters.
   489. Booey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 11:40 AM (#4415594)
So, if the Lakers beat Houston, Lakers are 7 and Houston is 8. If Houston beats the Lakers and Memphis beats Utah, Houston is 7 and Lakers are 8. If Houston beats the Lakers and Utah beats Memphis, Houston is 7 and Utah is 8.


Well, at least Houston has something to play for, so there's a slim chance the Lakers could lose that one.

Not sure how the Jazz are gonna beat Memphis though now that the Grizz have strong reason to care. I do think they match up better with the Grizz than many teams do, though.

   490. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 12:17 PM (#4415622)
I'm always skeptical of someone with Shabazz Muhammad's baggage.
   491. JJ1986 Posted: April 16, 2013 at 12:22 PM (#4415632)
There's a few potential All-Stars in this year's draft.


What do people think of Marcus Smart? I've never seen him play. I figured he was more of a 10-15 range guy, but now everyone's mocking him in the top 5.
   492. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4415637)
I'm always skeptical of someone with Shabazz Muhammad's baggage.

Maybe I've just missed it, but what's his baggage?

and if you get rose back for that series....well, you still probably lose in 5 games, but at least you might be able to win if lebron gets radiation poisoning and wade gets sucked into a bottomless pit and bosh gets addicted to nerve tonic and chalmers touts pitt the elder and ray allen gets stuck pulling furniture/cats out of a burning building and shane battier doesn't shave his ####### sideburns mattingly and udonis haslem gets charged with 142 muders and....so on.

I think losing LeBron would be enough for several East teams to beat Miami, not just the mythical healthy Bulls.
   493. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 12:35 PM (#4415652)
I think losing LeBron would be enough for several East teams to beat Miami, not just the mythical healthy Bulls.


Yeah, it would certainly loosen the strings quite a bit. At that point, you could make an argument for every non-Bucks East team, even if you'd still ultimately pick against a few of those teams.
   494. Spivey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 12:44 PM (#4415667)
I think the Bucks could easily beat a non-LeBron Heat team.
   495. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 16, 2013 at 12:54 PM (#4415684)
I'm always skeptical of someone with Shabazz Muhammad's baggage.

Maybe I've just missed it, but what's his baggage?


The name is pretty damning.
   496. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: April 16, 2013 at 12:55 PM (#4415686)
What do people think of Marcus Smart? I've never seen him play. I figured he was more of a 10-15 range guy, but now everyone's mocking him in the top 5.


Nice well-rounded player, sort of an oversized PG or combo guard. Didn't shoot very well this season-he needs work on either shot selection or technique. I'd love to see him come in and be a poor man's Fat Lever, or a thicker version of Rondo.
   497. JJ1986 Posted: April 16, 2013 at 12:56 PM (#4415690)
Muhammad is a year older than he was supposed to be.
   498. AROM Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:04 PM (#4415701)
I think the Bucks could easily beat a non-LeBron Heat team.


Easily? No way. They beat San Antonio on the road without Lebron or Wade. That wasn't a likely outcome, and several teams would have a chance against them, but nobody in the East easily beats the Heat easily unless they are down to Juwon Howard at center, that stoopid mascot and Riley as forwards, and Arison and Spoe in the backcourt.

Knicks would have the best shot, but even with Lebron out I don't see it as a given that Anthony/Chandler are a better pair of stars than Wade/Bosh.
   499. AROM Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:09 PM (#4415707)
Muhammad is a year older than he was supposed to be.


I'm no kind of prospect expert, but to me Muhammad looks like the kind of player who doesn't do much on defense, and will look to score in volume but not efficiency. For players of this type, they can fit into 2 NBA uses:

1. If they are the very best of this player type, they can be the face of a good team, at least once their achilles recovers.
2. Otherwise they wind up taking a ton of shots and scoring points for losing teams.
   500. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4415715)
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