Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, April 01, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the Oxford comma and unspeakable criminal acts.

 

The District Attorney Posted: April 01, 2013 at 11:27 AM | 1276 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 6 of 13 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 >  Last ›
   501. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:23 PM (#4415726)
It's that time...for the first time! Your 2012-13 BBTF NBA Awards!

Here's how it works...respond in the thread in the following categories:

Most Valuable Player (specify top 5 in order; voting will be 10/7/5/3/1)
Defensive Player of Year (top 3; voting will be 5/3/1)
Sixth Man of the Year (top 3)
Rookie of the Year (top 3)
Coach of the Year (top 3)

(Vote for most improved player if you want, but I don't care about it and neither should you.)

I'll tally the results and report back. Voting is open from now until next Tuesday, April 23rd.
   502. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:34 PM (#4415738)
MVP
1. James
2. Durant
3. Fat Gasol
4. Paul
5. Harden

DPOY
1. Fat Gasol
2. James
3. Noah

6MOY
1. Earl Smith III
2. Jack
3. Crawford

ROTY
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Drummond

COTY
1. Thibs
2. Pop
3. Woodson
   503. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:39 PM (#4415746)
MVP
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Paul
4. Anthony
5. Harden

DPOY
1. Gasol
2. Iguodala
3. Howard

6th Man
1. Crawford
2. Smith
3. Jack

Rookie
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Beal

Coach
1. Karl
2. Spolestra
3. Popovich
   504. Manny Coon Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4415752)
I'm surprised stat people like Crawford. He takes a bunch of shots but does very little otherwise and he's one of the worst rebounders in the entire NBA. He wouldn't even by my choice as most valuable bench player on the Clippers (Barnes). If you wanted a one dimensional guard, why wouldn't you pick Kevin Martin instead?
   505. andrewberg Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4415763)
MVP
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Paul
4. M Gasol
5. Westbrook

DPOY
1. Hibbert
2. M Gasol
3. Lebron

6th Man
1. JR Smith
2. Crawford
3. Anderson

ROY
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Drummond

Coach
1. Karl
2. Hollins
3. Thibs

MIP- George Hill
   506. JJ1986 Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:53 PM (#4415766)
He wouldn't even by my choice as most valuable bench player on the Clippers (Barnes).


I think I'd pick Bledsoe.
   507. steagles Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:54 PM (#4415768)
Most Valuable Player (specify top 5 in order; voting will be 10/7/5/3/1)
Defensive Player of Year (top 3; voting will be 5/3/1)
Sixth Man of the Year (top 3)
Rookie of the Year (top 3)
Coach of the Year (top 3)


MVP:
james
durant
marc
curry
kobe

DPOY:
lebron
sanders
duncan

6th:
jack
smith
drummond

rookie:
lillard
davis
drummond

coach:
jackson
carlesimo
vogel
   508. Booey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4415774)
Will my ballot instantly be voided if I list Al Jefferson as DPOY?
   509. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:59 PM (#4415777)
He takes a bunch of shots but does very little otherwise and he's one of the worst rebounders in the entire NBA. He wouldn't even by my choice as most valuable bench player on the Clippers (Barnes). If you wanted a one dimensional guard, why wouldn't you pick Kevin Martin instead?


Reasonable enough criticisms, but he's also a pretty efficient scorer, and unlike Martin he can create his own shot. Crawford, Martin, and Smith are all superficially similar - their advanced stats (PER, WS, WS/48) are all pretty close, none of them are good defenders by any stretch - I think any of them are fine choices, and VERY nearly picked Smith #1.
   510. Manny Coon Posted: April 16, 2013 at 01:59 PM (#4415779)
MVP
1. James
2. Durant
3. Paul
4. Harden
5. Gasol

DPOY
1. James
2. Gasol
3. Duncan

6th Man
1. Martin
2. Landry
3. Barnes

Rookie
1. Davis
2. Drummond
3. Lillard

Coach
1. Popovich
2. Spolestra
3. Carlesimo
   511. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:00 PM (#4415782)
Will my ballot instantly be voided if I list Al Jefferson as DPOY?


No, but I will re-post your ballot anytime you discuss the Jazz going forward, a la the Cameron/Cano bit that won't die.
   512. steagles Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:03 PM (#4415787)
just a few thoughts on the first few ballots:

MVP: steph curry deserves recognition because he is just really fun to watch. also, he's likely going to break the record for made 3Ps in a season.

DPOY: hibbert gets disqualified immediately by me due to his poor rebounding. if we're talking about the best of the best here, that is way too glaring a flaw.

coach: popovich is the best coach almost without question, but since this is a seasonal award and he hasn't really distinguished himself this season, he's out. my vote went to mark jackson because, really, who thought the warriors would be where they are right now? carlesimo gets the runner up because he stepped onto a sinking ship in brooklyn and he put it right almost immediately.
   513. Booey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:07 PM (#4415792)
MVP:
1-LeBron
2-Durant
3-Duncan
4-little brother Gasol
5-Paul
-------
6-Melo
7-Harden
8-Kobe
9-Westbrook
10-Curry

DPOY:
1-M.Gasol
2-LeBron
3-I don't know. Noah or Chandler, maybe? Whoever played more games.

6MOY:
1-JR Smith
2-Anderson
3-Favors! (homerism, but it's a throwaway pick, so who cares)

Rookie:
1-Lillard
2-Unibrow
3-Drummond

Coach:
1-Karl
2-Hollins
3-Woodson
   514. JJ1986 Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:15 PM (#4415800)
MVP
1. James
2. Durant
3. Gasol
4. Harden
5. Paul

Really want to list Curry, but I think he's 6th.

DPOY
1. Gasol
2. Hibbert
3. James

6th Man
1. J. Butler
2. Smith
3. N. Collison

Rookie
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Drummond

Coach
1. Popovich
2. Karl
3. Jackson
   515. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:17 PM (#4415807)
MVP
1. James
2. Durant
3. Carmelo
4. Marc Gasol
5. Kobe

DPOY
1. James
2. Marc Gasol
3. Paul George (I know it's a flawed stat... but the guy has a huge lead in DWS and is tops among perimeter players in DRtg.)

6th man
1. Jack
2. JR Smith
3. Ryan Anderson

Rookie
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Drummond

Coach
1. Popovich
2. Spoelstra
3. Karl
   516. Booey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:21 PM (#4415815)
a la the Cameron/Cano bit that won't die.


I'm not familiar with this reference. Maybe I don't spend enough time on the other BBTF threads?

popovich is the best coach almost without question, but since this is a seasonal award and he hasn't really distinguished himself this season, he's out.


That's pretty much my thought as well. I'd actually have no problem if they just gave Pop the award every year, but he won last season and I think this year people may have finally stopped underestimating the Spurs.
   517. Amit Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4415820)
MVP:
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Marc Gasol
5. Stephen Curry

6. Carmelo Anthony
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Tim Duncan
9. Russell Westbrook
10. James Harden

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Marc Gasol
2. Lebron James
3. Larry Sanders

6th Man of the Year
1. J.R. Smith
2. Jamal Crawford
3. Jarrett Jack

Rookie of the Year
1. Damian Lillard
2. Anthony Davis
3. Bradley Beal

Coach of the Year
1. George Karl
2. Gregg Popovich
3. Tom Thibodeau
   518. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:26 PM (#4415826)
No one has Wade in their top five yet?
Also, I'm astounded to see Hibbert making DPOTY lists.
   519. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:41 PM (#4415859)
MVP
1. James
2. Durant
3. Melo*
4. Paul
5. Harden

DPOY
1. Gasol
2. Noah**
3. George***

6th Man
1. Smith
2. R. Anderson
3. Jack

Rookie
1. Lillard
2. Drummond
3. Davis

Coach
1. Karl
2. Hollins
3. Thibs

*I am surprised by this. But he's been very, very good and the Knicks have done what other non-Heat East teams couldn't do. He's been the player this year everyone thought he was before.
**Maybe if he were healthy all year, but the injuries really got him late.
***Probably should be LeBron, but the Pacers have the best DRtg and he's a huge part of that.
   520. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4415860)
Most surprising thing I learned looking up my picks:

The Wizards are 5th!!! in DRtg, right ahead of the Celtics and Bulls. Only non-playoff team in the top 12 of DRtg.
   521. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4415889)
I'm not familiar with this reference. Maybe I don't spend enough time on the other BBTF threads?


David Cameron (of USS Mariner and Fangraphs "fame") once made a comment about how Robinson Cano would end up a guy who might hit .280/.320/.400 in AAA someday or something to that effect. Now, everytime there's a thread about Cano, that patrician blowhard 'zop has to repost it for some reason.
   522. Spivey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4415897)
MVP: LeBron, Durant, Paul, Harden, Kobe
DPOY: Chandler, Sanders, Durant
6MAN: Kevin Martin, Crawford, JR Smith
ROY: Lillard, Davis, Drummond
COY: Popovich, Thibs, Vogel
   523. Spivey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4415904)
No one has Wade in their top five yet?

I was going to, because he's better and has played better than Harden and Kobe. But he also played significantly less minutes. I had him 6, though.
   524. outl13r Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4415907)
MVP
1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Paul
4. M Gasol
5. Kobe

DPOY
1. M Gasol
2. LeBron
3. LARRY!

6th Man
1. Anderson
2. Martin
3. JR Smith

ROY
1. Davis
2. Lillard
3. Drummond

Coach
1. Popovich
2. Thibs
3. Spoelstra
   525. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:10 PM (#4415908)
Spivey, if you have Durant above James on your DPOY ballot, what makes you put James as the MVP/how close is your MVP 1/2?
   526. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:14 PM (#4415918)
Maybe I've just missed it, but what's his baggage?


Eligibility concerns around improper benefits
His father's participation in his career and the above benefits
He's a year older than originally listed, as previously noted

None of those is individually damning, but you add up enough and things start to smell. A player who's talented and serious about a professional career doesn't need any of the above in his life.
   527. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4415919)
1. If they are the very best of this player type, they can be the face of a good team, at least once their achilles recovers.


I see what you did there :)
   528. Spivey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4415922)
Spivey, if you have Durant above James on your DPOY ballot, what makes you put James as the MVP/how close is your MVP 1/2?

They're close, but I give LeBron bonus points for being the most versatile player in the NBA - of course, some of this is defensive credit - I had them very close there too. James' PER and passing are still a small but noticeable cut above Durant's.
   529. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4415927)
I don't have enough depth of knowledge for 6MOY and ROY to feel like votes that deep would be good ones.
   530. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4415929)
Eligibility concerns around improper benefits
His father's participation in his career and the above benefits
He's a year older than originally listed, as previously noted


Ok, that last one is something - and matters in terms of projecting him. The first two are absolutely meaningless to his pro career, especially in the current NCAA, and in fact probably would be somewhat positively correlated with pro success were it to be studied.
   531. Spivey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4415930)


Eligibility concerns around improper benefits
His father's participation in his career and the above benefits
He's a year older than originally listed, as previously noted

None of those is individually damning, but you add up enough and things start to smell. A player who's talented and serious about a professional career doesn't need any of the above in his life.


I'd have concerns. Basically, the stories suggest he has an extremely overbearing father that was playing the system like a fiddle to get his son into this spot. Good for them, but it gives me some concern.
   532. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:21 PM (#4415933)
They're close, but I give LeBron bonus points for being the most versatile player in the NBA - of course, some of this is defensive credit - I had them very close there too. James' PER and passing are still a small but noticeable cut above Durant's.

How does Durant finish ahead of James (and George) in DPOY in your opinion? I'd agree he's better than he used to be, for sure.
   533. Spivey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:23 PM (#4415935)
Ok, that last one is something - and matters in terms of projecting him. The first two are absolutely meaningless to his pro career, especially in the current NCAA, and in fact probably would be somewhat positively correlated with pro success were it to be studied.

Maybe. I read a story interviewing his father a couple of months back. The way he spoke suggested the goal was always for his son to get to the NBA and make money, rather than be the best player he could be. The way the father openly spoke, they chose to go to UCLA because Howland would be forced to build the team and offense around him. I realize playing time affects where people go. He gives me a bad feeling, though. And I'm sure he knew he was a year older than listed, which again suggests dishonesty to game the system.
   534. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4415941)
I'm not super invested in my ballot - virtually all of these picks are so close that you could rearrange them/swap them out with other guys.

MVP: James, Durant, Paul, Wade, Duncan (You could have my #10 guy at #3 and I wouldn't bat an eye.)
6th: Jack, Crawford, Smith (sorry Ryno)
ROTY: Lillard, Davis, Drummond
DPOTY: Gasol, Noah, Iguodala
Coach: Karl, Spoelstra, Popovich (#4 was Woodson)
Comeback: Grey Biscuits
Exec: Morey (only easy call besides James/Durant #1/2 for MVP)

I reserve the right to disavow this ballot at any time.
   535. Spivey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4415942)
How does Durant finish ahead of James (and George) in DPOY in your opinion? I'd agree he's better than he used to be, for sure.

I don't watch as much NBA as you guys, for sure. But my argument is basically that Durant's length is super effective at altering people's shots and drives. His defensive WS and opponents PER are both better than James. I also think James gets *way* too much credit for guarding the toughest player on the other team. In the playoffs he does this some, in the regular season Heat games I watched, Wade drew just as many of the toughest assignments.
   536. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:29 PM (#4415948)
Defense and regular season awards: How do people weigh average performance v. peak performance. In other words, do you fully penalize for taking plays off? I used to - but have edged away from that stance.
   537. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:34 PM (#4415957)
MVP:
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Marc Gasol
5. James Harden

HM: Westbrook, Wade, George, Melo, Duncan, Parker

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Marc Gasol
2. Paul George
3. Tim Duncan

HM: Sanders, Garnett, T. Allen, Hibbert

6th Man of the Year
1. Vince Carter
2. Jimmy Butler
3. JR Smith

HM: Amir Johnson, Jack, A. Miller

Rookie of the Year
1. Anthony Davis
2. Damian Lillard
3. Andre Drummond (would be #2 if FTs didn't count)

HM: none -- bad year for rookies

Coach of the Year
1. Lionel Hollins
2. Gregg Popovich
3. Mark Jackson

HM: George Karl, Erik Spoelstra, Tom Thibodeau
   538. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4415959)
I'd have concerns. Basically, the stories suggest he has an extremely overbearing father that was playing the system like a fiddle to get his son into this spot.


After Todd Marinovich and Ryan Leaf turned out so well?


which again suggests dishonesty to game the system


This sums it up pretty well.

I guess "What can this team do for me?" will make you money in the NBA, but it'll probably make you a "good" player on a bad team.
   539. AROM Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:44 PM (#4415963)
MVP: James, Durant, Paul, Duncan, Harden
Defense: Ibaka, Paul George, Tie Gasol/T Allen
6th man: JR Smith, R Anderson, Martin
Rookie: Lillard, Davis, Drummond
Coach: Spoelstra, Popovich, Woodson
   540. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:48 PM (#4415966)
Though to give some perspective, I thought Andre Drummond and Jeremy Lamb were knuckleheads whose lack of interest in winning would limit them in the NBA. I still think I'll be half right.
   541. andrewberg Posted: April 16, 2013 at 03:54 PM (#4415971)
Here is my argument for Hibbert as DPOY, which is seemingly less popular than I would have guessed. Primarily, he is an incredible combination of shot blocking and PNR defense, which is a big part of what makes Indiana's elite defense possible. He does a lot of the things Chandler does in NY against the PNR- the athletic hedging, quick/long recovery, and overall disruption- but blocks more shots as a benefit. That combination of length and quickness allows their speedy perimeter defenders to overplay the ball, and Hill, George, and Stephenson have been extremely disruptive as a result.

The rebounding is an issue and perhaps I am underrating it. Still, if his top competition is Gasol, Hibbert only trails in DREB 19-17.3, so that is a relatively small factor on the whole. Gasol is great, and second on my ballot, but Hibbert's athleticism and ability to to disrupt ofenses all over the court gives him the edge in my book. I do not have synergy data on post defense, so maybe Gasol's one-on-one advantages are bigger than they look to me. That is a blind spot for me. As for Noah, I would probably vote him first except that he has played 15 fewer games and 350 fewer minutes than Hibbert.
   542. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 04:02 PM (#4415981)
Defense and regular season awards: How do people weigh average performance v. peak performance. In other words, do you fully penalize for taking plays off? I used to - but have edged away from that stance.


I consider it but give it only a little weight. For example, if I didn't give it any weight, I'd have Lebron as my DPOY. But, when he doesn't play that max effort D all the time, and he gets to play with Shane Battier next to him 30 minutes per night...he ends up in a battle for HM.
   543. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4415982)
berg - thanks for the explanation on Hibbert. I get where you're coming from, but lots of guys who could win it this year. Agree on Noah too - he'd be in my top 3 for sure if he'd played the full season.

   544. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 16, 2013 at 04:05 PM (#4415983)
MVP:
1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Melo
5. Harden

DPoY:
1. Marc Gasol
2. Larry Sanders
3. LeBron

(Duncan missed both of those lists for me because of playing time.)

6th Man:
1. Jarret Jack
2. JR Smith
3. Ryan Anderson

RoY:
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Drummond

Coach:
1. Spoelstra
2. Popovich
3. Mark Jackson

(Woodson just missed my CoY list, which is as surprising to me as Melo landing so high on my MVP list, but they deserve it.)

On today's Basketball Jones podcast, they discussed a hypothetical Least Valuable Player award. It might be fun to add that to the discussion. My top three would be:
1. Andrea Bargnani
2. Derek Fisher
3. Biedrins
There are plenty of worthy candidates, though, especially depending on how you weight salary vs. performance (or lack thereof).
   545. andrewberg Posted: April 16, 2013 at 04:05 PM (#4415986)
berg - thanks for the explanation on Hibbert. I get where you're coming from, but lots of guys who could win it this year. Agree on Noah too - he'd be in my top 3 for sure if he'd played the full season.



Definitely agree. There are many reasonable choices for that one. I just wanted to explain how I came to mine.
   546. andrewberg Posted: April 16, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4415988)
Not considering salary, Austin Rivers would probably be my LVP.
   547. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 04:18 PM (#4416001)
Biedrins set the record this year for least Pts/36 for a guy with 250+ MP: 1.7

1.7! He's also now 19-78 from the free throw line over the past four years.
He has been paid $36 million total over those four seasons.

That's my LVP right there.

   548. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 04:27 PM (#4416013)
According to WojYahoo on Twitter - Tracy McGrady (!?) to join the Spurs.
   549. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 04:30 PM (#4416017)
In an effort to run up our thread count vs. the Soccer Thread, here's a complete list of players how led the league in PER for 6 consecutive seasons:

Michael Jordan (7, actually)
Lebron James
   550. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 16, 2013 at 04:39 PM (#4416027)
[549] Complete list of players who led the league in WS/48 for 5 consecutive seasons:

Michael Jordan (6 in a row and 8 out of 10 where the 2 missed were retirement years. Jesus.)
Kareem (5 in a row and 9 out of 10. ABA asterisk)
Wilt (5 in a rown and 8 out of 9. ABA asterisk)
LeBron James

EDIT: James' current .3224 mark is the 5th highest of all time behind Kareem's .3399 ('72), .3256 ('71), .3225 ('73) and Wilt's .3251 ('64). So, the 2nd highest mark all time in seasons where there was only one relevant professional league.
   551. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 05:01 PM (#4416046)
And highest all-time in the post-merger era.
   552. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4416049)
And highest all-time in the post-merger era.


Yeah, Wilt in '64 had to contend with Russell, Bellamy, a near-done Pettit, and a bunch of guys who'd be undersized power forwards in today's game.
   553. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 05:05 PM (#4416051)
LeBron is second in the league in eFG%, with a 31.9 USG. Only one other player in the top 5 has a USG above 18 (Dwight Howard at ~24)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_leaders.html
   554. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 16, 2013 at 06:08 PM (#4416106)
MVP
1. James
2. Durant
3. Paul
4. Bryant
5. M. Gasol

DPOY
1. James
2. Chandler
3. M. Gasol

6th Man
1. Smith
2. Crawford
3. Martin

Rookie
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Drummond

Coach
1. Spolestra
2. Popovich
3. Woodson
   555. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 16, 2013 at 06:16 PM (#4416110)
Tracy McGrady has played 938 regular-season NBA games and made the playoffs 8 times, losing in the first round every time for an overall team record of 15-29. The Spurs don't have many players with that sort of playoff experience!

McGrady could experience more playoff wins this year than he has in his professional career, which started in 1997.
   556. JJ1986 Posted: April 16, 2013 at 06:28 PM (#4416118)
Bynum is the LVP.
   557. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 16, 2013 at 06:28 PM (#4416119)
McGrady: Hall of Famer?
   558. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 07:09 PM (#4416145)
Uninjured McGrady: Top 20 all-time player?
   559. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: April 16, 2013 at 07:31 PM (#4416162)
I also think James gets *way* too much credit for guarding the toughest player on the other team. In the playoffs he does this some, in the regular season Heat games I watched, Wade drew just as many of the toughest assignments.

when [LeBron] doesn't play that max effort D all the time, and he gets to play with Shane Battier next to him 30 minutes per night...he ends up in a battle for HM.

Agreed. It's kinda baffling to me that LeBron seemingly will win DPOY on this board. I understand that he plays more minutes than some of the other guys that have clearly been more valuable defensively per possession (eg Duncan, Garnett, and Sanders), but what's the argument for ranking him ahead of Marc Gasol and Paul George? Is it just a matter of taking perceived ability over performance?
   560. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 16, 2013 at 07:36 PM (#4416168)
[558] No doubt about it for me. He was what Penny was reputed/marketed to be. And then the injuries came for him just like they did for Penny.

This reminds me, I forgot to mention that I went to the Jordan Classic this past weekend. What follows are my completely amateur scouting views/reports. The only prior knowledge I have of these kids is that I read SI features on Parker and Wiggins, have seen pictures of Parker, and watched that one Wiggins highlight video from a few weeks back.

I went to see Andrew Wiggins (who physically reminds me of T-Mac) but he was a bit underwhelming. As tends to be the case in All Star Games, PGs control the ball/game and, Wiggins didn't get a chance to do much with the ball. This sucked because while I've seen tons of him dunking I wanted to get a better sense of his ballhandling/passing, which I wasn't able to do. Actually, he did pull off one very impressive spin move in the game, which is the same move you'll see him go to in a lot of highlight packages. Reminded me of the quick spin that Melo likes to use.

I am very much anti-Jabari Parker but he was solid in the game despite what looks to me like a very unorthodox jumper.

Most impressive player in the game by far was Julius Randle. It's really strange that a PF would stand out in a game like this, but he had a nice touch around the rim and was making great/quick decisions to take other bigs off the dribble on the baseline. Really impressive.

Not sure how athletic he's supposed to be but Andrew Harrison struggled to turn the corner on the PnR. It wasn't as bad as the PG on the West team, whose name I can't remember, but it did seem weird for someone who is supposed to be a top prospect in this era of PGs.

Allen Iverson apparently has a young cousin who is going...Memphis, I think. Either way, it made me feel really old. The kid was also Iversonian in his willingness to share the ball.

There was a hilariously overweight kid with the last name Meeks who I amused by at first but ended up loving by the end of the game. Don't see him making it to the NBA just because of the weight issue, but he was a hell of a passer and was very effective offensively.
   561. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 07:42 PM (#4416171)
Fans love the chasedown block? He's getting awards based on talent level, not performance?
   562. Manny Coon Posted: April 16, 2013 at 07:49 PM (#4416185)
Agreed. It's kinda baffling to me that LeBron seemingly will win DPOY on this board. I understand that he plays more minutes than some of the other guys that have clearly been more valuable defensively per possession (eg Duncan, Garnett, and Sanders), but what's the argument for ranking him ahead of Marc Gasol and Paul George? Is it just a matter of taking perceived ability over performance?


I don't think it's clear those guys are really better and I definitely don't think Lebron is any kind of lazy defender, maybe he just seems lazy because he's so good it looks easy, which is sort a of classic problem for good defenders in baseball. The Zack Lowe article from a while back about the camera tracking system the Raptors are trying to use to measure defense mentioned James was so active and effective on defense, he was doing than the better hypothetical ideal defender the system set up, I don't think he does that by being lazy.

I'll almost always pick an elite basket protecting big over a wing for defense, but all of the bigs this year are flawed; there is no peak Duncan, Garnett, Howard, Ben Wallace type big this year, and Lebron is having a great year.
   563. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 16, 2013 at 07:50 PM (#4416187)
MVP
1. James
2. Durant
3. Paul
4. M. Gasol
5. Harden

DPOY
1. M. Gasol
2. James
3. George

6th Man
1. R. Anderson
2. Hayward
3. Martin

Rookie
1. Lillard
2. Davis
3. Drummond

Coach
1. Popovich
2. Thibodeau
3. Woodson
   564. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 16, 2013 at 08:03 PM (#4416198)
The Zack Lowe article from a while back about the camera tracking system the Raptors are trying to use to measure defense mentioned James was so active and effective on defense, he was doing than the better hypothetical ideal defender the system set up, I don't think he does that by being lazy.
I remember the Lowe article getting quite a bit of run when it came out. I don't think it's unfair to reward James for defense. The Heat are fantastic at defending the perimeter, and James spearheads that defense by being the most versatile defender on the floor. He's whatever the Heat need whenever they need him. Yes, it does mean that giving James the DPoY is more rewarding the unit by giving it to the biggest star, but defense is played by units. I have no problem with James winning this.
   565. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 08:08 PM (#4416205)
What are Miami's PPP numbers with Lebron on/off-court? I know Garnett's gaudy numbers have been evidence of his team defense numbers, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen LeBron's (Are these readily available somewhere?)
   566. steagles Posted: April 16, 2013 at 08:28 PM (#4416230)
what's the argument for ranking him ahead of Marc Gasol and Paul George? Is it just a matter of taking perceived ability over performance?
over gasol - rebounding and versatility. i love what marc does, but i think lebron does more.

over george - reputation and scheme. unlike larry sanders, paul george doesn't have any gaudy numbers to point at, so there's no shorthand by which you can say he's better than lebron. and then, with him playing alongside really good defensive teammates and playing in a system that stresses defense, i think there's a fair bit of noise in his d-rating and defensive win shares as compared with lebron.
   567. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 09:03 PM (#4416285)
Found my own answer at 82games.com:

LeBron: -3.8 Opp PPP when on court vs. off
Garnett: -7.0
Gasol: -6.2
George: -2.9
Chandler: +0.8(!)
Howard: -6.6
Sanders: -6.6
Ibaka: -0.5
Sefolosha: -6.4
   568. RollingWave Posted: April 16, 2013 at 09:32 PM (#4416338)
on-off court is pretty questionable though, match ups and a lot of other random factor plays into that. if your always on the court with a lot of black holes on defense and the better defending subs come in when you go out it's gonna look bad etc.. and vice versa. it has meanings, but I don't think it's really a replicable skill thing as much of a team and usage pattern thing.
   569. smileyy Posted: April 16, 2013 at 09:43 PM (#4416349)
[568] Yeah -- for me, those numbers are directional, and one of those "start of the conversation" things that prompt deeper analysis.

Are there better ways to measure contribution to team defense?
   570. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 16, 2013 at 09:47 PM (#4416359)
[569] I think you look at the lineup data as well as on/off. For example, Chandler is probably hurt by the fact that he is typically charged with playing with the Knicks' worst defenders, which is the issue 568 is getting. So, if you look at lineup data you can sometimes figure out the guy who is the sieve.
   571. Spivey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 09:48 PM (#4416362)
I don't know the inner workings of the opponents PER, but that's something that I think is pretty valuable. With guys like LeBron, Kobe, Durant we're talking about guys that are playing enough minutes that the minutes they aren't on the court is a very small number, and likely to be pretty high as far as garbage time goes.

I think team defense is a big factor, while factoring in a rough idea of what the other defenders on the team do.

I guess one thing that is tricky about LeBron is that I'm not convinced he's a better defender than Wade. I think he probably is, but the stats don't suggest he was this year. And on some level, I think having 2 of the very best perimeter defenders helps both of their stats.
   572. RollingWave Posted: April 16, 2013 at 09:57 PM (#4416374)
unfortunately defense analysis is still a long ways off in the NBA, it even took baseball a long time really start getting it down (and even now is still not nearly as good as the offense one) . while basketball it's obviously so much harder.

Individuals matters obviously, but really it's hard to analyze if your simply having teammates that's always losing rotation, or are you getting blown by etc... just as the other way is also true, you might be getting destroyed in iso but good teammates cover for a lot of your faults etc.. and there is also the match up issue , you'd figure if the same player is always covering the other team's first option, or if he's covering their 2nd/3rd, it's going to make a difference.

At this point, I'd take looks at on-off field stats and DrTG to get some ideas, but try to seriously back it up by live scouting as much as you can. Those things can confirm some obvious things like James Harden being pretty bad at defense. and Steve Nash is historically bad especially this year. it'll catch the extreme ends well enough, but most guys are not in the extreme.
   573. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 16, 2013 at 10:00 PM (#4416380)
I guess one thing that is tricky about LeBron is that I'm not convinced he's a better defender than Wade.

This is crazy to me. Wade is an habitual gambler with persistent effort issues on the defensive end.
   574. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: April 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM (#4416385)
What are Miami's PPP numbers with Lebron on/off-court? I know Garnett's gaudy numbers have been evidence of his team defense numbers, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen LeBron's (Are these readily available somewhere?)


Yes, Basketball Reference has all this stuff now. Just go to any team or player page and click "On/Off" (it's part of the "Other" tab for teams and it has its own tab on player pages).

The Heat allow 103.9 Pts/100 overall -- the 9th-best mark in the league -- 103.3 with LeBron on the court, and 106.7 without him. Similarly, Wade's on/off split is 102.7/106.6 and Chalmers's is 102.2/106.5. Of the top 8 players in Miami's rotation (it's a drop of more than 500 minutes to anyone else), 6 tend to grade as good defenders by the metrics*: Bosh, LeBron, Haslem, Wade, Battier, and Chalmers. The other two, Ray Allen and Norris Cole, tend to be subpar. Cole and Allen are almost always on the court when LeBron, Wade, and/or Chalmers are off, which explains their similar numbers. Bosh, Wade, Battier, and Haslem all graded as good to very good defensively before teaming up with LeBron.

Here are some other relevant on/off numbers:

T Allen: 97.3/104.2
M Gasol: 98.3/105.6
R Hibbert: 98.8/101.1
P George: 99.3/101.3
T Duncan: 99.3/103.5
K Garnett: 99.3/107.9
T Sefolosha: 100.7/104.7
J Noah: 101.0/106.7
L Sanders: 102.4/108.5
A Iguodala: 104.2/108.5

There's also the issue of the massive conference imbalance this year. By simple points per possession, 12 of the top 15 offenses are in the West. There's no corresponding defensive edge for the East, so it's not a matter of contrasting strengths but rather just conference superiority. Miami has the best offense in the East; only the Knicks and Nets could otherwise qualify as having an average or better offense. I don't know the magnitude of this conference disparity in terms of adjustments to the numbers, but it definitely should be considered. If it's simply to tack on a point in the East and subtract a point in the West, then the Heat effectively would have the #12 defense in the league this year.

Kevin Pelton recently provided his All-Defense picks, and he placed LeBron as an Honorable Mention at SF behind Iguodala and George. In his words, "George has been so good for the league's top defense that he bumps usual fixture James to the honorable mention ranks. More than in past seasons, James has saved his defensive intensity for when Miami needs him to shut down a hot opponent at any position." Pelton also says that LeBron is the most versatile, but he'd still put him 5th among wings behind not only Iguodala and George but also Tony Allen and Sefolosha. That seems fair to me based on the numbers. Teams score an extra point when Iguodala is on the court compared to LeBron, but Iguodala faces significantly better competition and his most common teammates -- Lawson, Gallo, and Faried -- are average-at-best defensively.

*The metrics to which I'm referring include primarily historical RAPM, a current version of RAPM, and the stats at Bask-Ref and 82games. By the available 2013 RAPM, the vote would go Garnett (4.0), Allen (3.8), Duncan (3.6), and then George (3.5) and Asik (3.5) tied for 4th. LeBron stands at a respectable +1.8 defensively, but with his +7.7 offense he leads the MVP field by a convincing margin. There's no shame in conserving some energy on defense when you're the best player alive on offense.
   575. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: April 16, 2013 at 10:15 PM (#4416397)
Now, everytime there's a thread about Cano, that patrician blowhard 'zop has to repost it for some reason.


I object to this on three grounds. First, I only post the quote in threads where David Cameron predicts something stupid. Second, I didn't repost it at all while David Cameron had cancer. Third, as a guy whose grandfather wore a spodik and whose father grew up without running water, I think I'm hardly patrician of anything but the shtetl.
   576. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 16, 2013 at 10:21 PM (#4416410)
'zop, points granted, though you'll admit you could be perceived as "patrician" by someone who only knows you online and sees things like your well-heeled NY upbringing and apparent expertise in art and wine.
   577. RollingWave Posted: April 16, 2013 at 10:27 PM (#4416415)
The Cameron thing is pretty interesting though, most people are usually overly optimistic on prospects in general, it was a rare case were someone really went out their way to say that a prospect totally sucks, and gets burned in epic fashion in a very very short span (he said that before the start of the 2005 season. Cano's rookie year.)

[574] is a great read, that seems like just a different way of calculating Win Share though, the general result isn't that much different except at the margins.

I am surprised / shocked to see Rubio with that great of a defensive rating (while having pretty horrific offense one) though.
   578. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: April 16, 2013 at 10:27 PM (#4416416)
But my argument is basically that Durant's length is super effective at altering people's shots and drives.

That seems like a scouting preference more than anything though, no? LeBron is clearly stronger, faster, and more athletic, so while that may be a strength of Durant's, it still doesn't put him at LeBron's level. Besides, SF is such a strong defensive position right now - George, Iggy, Deng, Smith, Battier, etc, I just don't think Durant stands out at the position. Again, he's made huge strides, because he was very bad early on. And the fact that LeBron can guard just about anyone is still a positive and not a negative because he doesn't all the time.

I guess one thing that is tricky about LeBron is that I'm not convinced he's a better defender than Wade.

This is crazy to me. Wade is an habitual gambler with persistent effort issues on the defensive end.


Totally agree. In particular, the Bulls like to set up ways to try and take advantage of Wade's agressiveness. Wade is a lot like Rondo in that respect.

---

Gotta love the Raptors. They kick the Bulls ass twice, likely sending them to the 6 seed. But then they blow out the Hawks tonight to help the Bulls.
   579. AROM Posted: April 16, 2013 at 10:31 PM (#4416422)
According to WojYahoo on Twitter - Tracy McGrady (!?) to join the Spurs.


He can be there for the playoffs? That sounds crazy to me, signing this late.

Ibaka on/off - Did not know that. Also cool to know that stuff is on bbref. I'll have to revise my defensive player picks to George, Allen, and Gasol. I just figured the Thunder had one of the top defenses, and Ibaka's there blocking all the shots.

Yeah, Wilt in '64 had to contend with Russell, Bellamy, a near-done Pettit, and a bunch of guys who'd be undersized power forwards in today's game.


To be fair, Russell and Bellamy accounted for 25% of his matchups. There are a lot more good players today, but the expansion of teams from 9 to 30 is much more extreme than baseball, going from 20 to 30 in that time period.
   580. Spivey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 10:41 PM (#4416436)
Totally agree. In particular, the Bulls like to set up ways to try and take advantage of Wade's agressiveness. Wade is a lot like Rondo in that respect.


Wade's opponents PER and on/off PPP are better than LeBron's this year, and his DRating is in the ballpark. LeBron also gambles a fair amount - it's a team strategy, and I think it's a good one because of how athletic and how able to recover they are. With Wade, LeBron, and to a lesser extent Chalmers - I think they are so good in the open court that the gamble rate doesn't have to be anywhere near 50/50 for it to be a smart play.

I've actually seen Wade be pretty motivated and good at defense this year. I'm not sure if that's because he's taking more of an offensive backseat, random luck, or watching only marquee games.
   581. Spivey Posted: April 16, 2013 at 10:42 PM (#4416438)
Ibaka on/off - Did not know that. Also cool to know that stuff is on bbref. I'll have to revise my defensive player picks to George, Allen, and Gasol. I just figured the Thunder had one of the top defenses, and Ibaka's there blocking all the shots.


Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka all have poor on/off numbers. I think that has more to do with usage than anything else, but it's definitely something to consider.
   582. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: April 16, 2013 at 11:24 PM (#4416497)
This reminds me, I forgot to mention that I went to the Jordan Classic this past weekend


Did you have any thoughts on the two Florida commitments at the game: Kasey Hill and Chris Walker?
   583. Manny Coon Posted: April 16, 2013 at 11:32 PM (#4416504)
I think Lebron's versatility hurts his defensive numbers some because he's not really a PF, but being able to defend there allows them to do a lot of different things on both offense and defense. If he played exclusively at SF I think his defensive numbers would be better, but I think in this case being able to play worse, but still good at another position is an good thing.
   584. AROM Posted: April 17, 2013 at 07:45 AM (#4416573)
On LVP, I also thought of Austin Rivers, but rookies probably should be exempt from that or at least have their own separate dishonor. Biedrins' number's are truly awful. But thanks for reminding me of Bynum. He's in a class by himself.
   585. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 17, 2013 at 08:28 AM (#4416584)
LVP: Norris Cole is on the ballot.
   586. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 17, 2013 at 09:18 AM (#4416607)
[585] Hmmm, would the valuation stats point to Norris Cole as the difference between the Heat and 70 wins this year? Or was he not that bad?
   587. JJ1986 Posted: April 17, 2013 at 09:20 AM (#4416609)
Is this right? Clippers have the tiebreaker over Memphis, Nuggets have tiebreakers over both, but if they all finish tied it goes: LA, Denver, Memphis.
   588. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 17, 2013 at 09:25 AM (#4416613)
[587] That's what I've read. However, I was previously under the impression that the Division title merely guaranteed being seeded no lower than 4th (though you could be on the road as the 4 team if the 5 team had the better record). That being the case, it makes no sense to me that the Division Title now suddenly also means that LAC has a tiebreaker over DEN, who I think also beat them in the season series. The NBA is needlessly complicated when it comes to standings/salary cap. Almost like the league is run by a lawyer.

EDIT: That said, DEN really should be able to beat PHX. How would 57 wins compare to their preseason projections? I feel like it would be in range, which is funny considering the furor over the projections as well as DEN's start to the season.
   589. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: April 17, 2013 at 09:27 AM (#4416615)
Yes, that's right, in terms of seeding. But, DEN would host LAC if they somehow wound up playing.
   590. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: April 17, 2013 at 09:30 AM (#4416619)
BTW, in case you wondered how the Clippers pulled off the upset last night...From the AP story:

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Chauncey Billups is back in the starting lineup for the Los Angeles Clippers, just in time to begin what they hope is an extended run in the playoffs.
The veteran guard's mere presence was enough for his teammates in their sixth straight win, 93-77 over the Portland Trail Blazers on Tuesday night. He had four points - all on free throws - while playing 17 minutes.

In an unrelated story, the Blazers held out the regulars and started 4 rookies.
   591. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 17, 2013 at 09:34 AM (#4416624)
Did you have any thoughts on the two Florida commitments at the game: Kasey Hill and Chris Walker?

Missed this earlier. Once again, I have no real background on any of these guys but Hill didn't stand out at all. I just did a Google Image search of him and can't recall anything he did, but noting that he played PG, the lack of burst/acceleration from almost all the primary ballhandlers was something I picked up on. So, I will say that probably applied to him as well.

This might make no sense but Chris Walker reminded me of Russell Westbrook. Obviously, they play very different positions, but Walker was the most clearly athletic guy in this game. In addition, while others played like this was an All Star Game, it seemed like Walker was in the 4th Quarter of Game 7 of the Finals from the get go. I noticed on the first play of the game where someone missed a shot and he came flying in for the put back dunk then proceeded to thump his chest, scream and gesticulate. Even though I am a Russell Westbrook fanboy, I felt Walker's antics were over the top/annoying, but I guess you appreciate the energy and the physical tools were evident.
   592. AROM Posted: April 17, 2013 at 09:51 AM (#4416634)
Hmmm, would the valuation stats point to Norris Cole as the difference between the Heat and 70 wins this year? Or was he not that bad?


Cole has had some good games recently, as Miami has let the JV play. In his last game he just missed a triple double with 16-11 and 9 assists. Earlier in the year he wasn't playing many important minutes. I doubt he's had more than a minimal impact on wins and losses. His on/off numbers are horrible (-11.8 overall) but keep in mind who is off the court when Cole is on. He's being compared to superstars. (Oh, and thanks for the note about on/off being easily accessible on bbref. Very addicting.)

He needs to hit free throws better, but a backup PG shooting .422 overall and .372 from three, I think you can find many worse players than that.
   593. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: April 17, 2013 at 10:13 AM (#4416650)
Thanks NJ. Appreciate it.
   594. tshipman Posted: April 17, 2013 at 10:20 AM (#4416656)
MVP:
1. James
2. Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Kobe
5. Harden

Y'all voting for baby Gasol should acknowledge that he only scores 13 a game at below .500 shooting.

DPOY:
1. Paul George
2. James
3. Baby Gasol
4. Duncan
5. Durant

6th Man:
This award is stupid and I refuse to vote for it.

Rookie of the Year:
1. Drummond (this remains the only thing I got right about this last season)
2. Lillard
3. Davis by default

Coach of the Year:
They should just call this the Jackson/Popovich award.
   595. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM (#4416665)
Y'all voting for baby Gasol should acknowledge that he only scores 13 a game at below .500 shooting.


Seconded. He does everything well - great passer, defender, he's smart - but he has about the same PER as Kevin Garnett, who (rightly) no one is touting as an MVP candidate (yes, I know he plays more minutes, but still). Though in his defense, he actually scores 14 per game. :-)
   596. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 17, 2013 at 10:40 AM (#4416676)
That said, DEN really should be able to beat PHX. How would 57 wins compare to their preseason projections? I feel like it would be in range, which is funny considering the furor over the projections as well as DEN's start to the season.


Brezzing through last year's predictions, we tended to have Denver mid 40s to low 50s wins.

I guessed 50 myself, along with the comment "teams like this never win titles" - while I obviously missed low on my wins number, I stand by that. Denver's ceiling is the conference finals.

Hollinger had them at 59, WoW at 58 (!). WoW also had the Knicks at 54 - but before you start wondering what the world has come to, note he had the Raptors 4th in the East.

Also, as an aside, to remind us how good Lebron has been:

(Russlan): Does anyone else think that LeBron is going to have a significantly better year than he has ever had before?


followed by
(Conor): I hear what you're saying, but I'm going to say no if only because i can't imagine a guy having a significantly better season than Lebron has the past couple of years.

   597. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 17, 2013 at 10:47 AM (#4416686)
Cole's numbers are quite a bit better than when I'd last looked. That said - he doesn't shoot a lot of threes, or go to the line often, and is bad from two. He doesn't pass like a point (and I don't just mean get assists - which he does only once every ten minutes) and isn't special defensively. That recent hot streak? It inched his season and career WS barely out of negative territory (the uberstat that would be most favorable to him, given that he plays for the best club in the world). Nor does he offer tactical value or mess particularly well with Miami's bench (the team's struggles when he and Allen play together are well documented). His PER is 7.9 in 20 mpg, playing every day and I could easily name a dozen D-Leaguers I'd rather have in his spot.
I don't think he's _the_ LVP, but not many guys offer his combination of minutes and poor play.
   598. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 17, 2013 at 10:55 AM (#4416692)
As for the current RAPM link from 574 (thanks DLGM!), here's the league's bottom 10 in "MVP" (note: RAPM is best used over a large sample than we're using here):
Byron Mullens   -35.9
Austin Rivers   
-25.5
Will Barton     
-18.3
Earl Clark      
-10.8
DeQuan Jones     
-9.1
Kendall Marshall 
-8.6
Nolan Smith      
-7.0
Marquis Teague   
-5.5
Norris Cole      
-3.7
Earl Barron      
-3.7 

And the top 10:
James     682.6
Durant    513.2
Westbrook 431.7
Paul      407.6
George    402.8
Harden    377.9
Wade      368.0
Bryant    365.9
Griffin   363.8
Curry     361.0 

   599. Juilin Sandar to Conkling Speedwell (Arjun) Posted: April 17, 2013 at 10:57 AM (#4416696)
long-time listener, first-time caller, I read the thread every day but I think this is the first time I've posted. Watch a lot of basketball and grew up playing it (just like any kid in Chicago, hehe). I hope you don't mind if I vote; feel free not to count it otherwise!

MVP:
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Carmelo Anthony*
5. Stephen Curry**
HMs: Kobe Bryant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Tony Parker, Tim Duncan.

*I really dislike him as a player, but he's been incredible this year. Even been impressed by his intensity on the defensive end, even if he has been bullied around a bit at times.
**Partially a courtesy vote given how incredible he has been to watch this season, partially a nod to his incredible 3-point shooting ability, partially me wanting to shy away from all-offense, no-defence players (Kobe, Harden, potentially Russell Westbrook. Curry isn't great at this either, but he's definitely improved a ton) and partially because both Tim Duncan and Tony Parker have missed substantial stretches of the season (Parker, for example, is ~800 minutes behind Curry, with roughly the same TS% and a PER advantage of only 23.1 to 21.3, while Duncan is ~900 minutes behind Curry). I could be convinced between Curry and Westbrook either way, honestly, but consider this an executive decision because I like Curry a lot, heh.

DPoY:
1. Marc Gasol
2. Joakim Noah
3. Paul George*
HMs: Lebron James, Mike Conley, Larry Sanders, Avery Bradley, Jimmy Butler**, Andre Iguodala.

*I really, really want to put Lebron here, but George has very much been (when I've seen them), the tough perimeter defensive player for the Pacers, who have been really, really good defensively the whole year. Another guy who I feel is right here is Mike Conley, who has seriously impressed me every time I've seen him.
**I *am* a Bulls fan. He has been incredibly good one-on-one against some of the better offensive players out there. I wouldn't seriously throw him a vote, but an honourable mention? I think that's okay.

Sixth Man:
1. Jarrett Jack*
2. J.R. Smith
3. Vince Carter**
HMs: Jamal Crawford, Ryan Anderson, J.J. Redick, Matt Barnes.

*As noted above, I prefer players who play some defence over those who don't. I love the Warriors Jack-Curry-Thompson lineup and I love Jack's flexibility alongside Curry. He's, again, not a good defender, but he's also not Jamal Crawford. Close one, though, because in recent months I've been seriously impressed by Smith (and he's the type of player I normally hate. He seems to have cut down on the irritating shots, imho).
**Has had a remarkably good year in Dallas!

Rookie!*
1. Anthony Davis**
2. Damian Lillard
3. Andre Drummond
HMs: Bradley Beal***, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Harrison Barnes, Dion Waiters.

*Left this out initially!
**I buy the "worth more due to higher efficiency" arguments.
***Close decision between him and Drummond, honestly. Beal has really impressed me when I've seen him.

CoY:
1. Gregg Popovich
2. Erik Spoelstra
3. George Karl*
HMs: Mark Jackson, Mike Woodson, Tom Thibodeau, Rick Carlisle.

*This is a really tough one. I initially had Mark Jackson (then realised, man, I like this Warriors team too much), and before that, Mike Woodson, and I really want to put Tom Thibodeau, or even Rick Carlisle (he's had a ton of trouble in Dallas and I've been really amazed by how he's thrown different lineups of random players out there), but the Nuggets have been really good without a star and this is the closest one can award them for it. :)
   600. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: April 17, 2013 at 10:57 AM (#4416698)
[596] Thanks for the link, gonna go ahead and pat myself on the back for my MIA projection. Also, this was telling "Shump's ACL locks up Rose's ACL" considering Shump's ACL has indeed proven superior to Rose's. Also predicted a MIA-NYK ECF which I presently feel good about. Ignore all my comments re: Lakers. And I'm going to go 0 for 5 on awards.
Page 6 of 13 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
robneyer
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogHBT: Talking head says Jeter is “a fraud” and “you are all suckers”
(235 - 12:29pm, Sep 23)
Last: Ron J2

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 9-23-2014
(6 - 12:28pm, Sep 23)
Last: Jim (jimmuscomp)

NewsblogMLB creates pace of game committee
(91 - 12:22pm, Sep 23)
Last: Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip

NewsblogMets near extension with GM Alderson
(31 - 12:18pm, Sep 23)
Last: The District Attorney

NewsblogOT: Politics, September, 2014: ESPN honors Daily Worker sports editor Lester Rodney
(3478 - 12:15pm, Sep 23)
Last: Ron J2

NewsblogBaseball Caught Looking as Fouls Injure 1,750 Fans a Year
(157 - 12:14pm, Sep 23)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogJoe Girardi: ‘Pitch the right way’
(68 - 11:24am, Sep 23)
Last: Joe Bivens, Minor Genius

NewsblogCalcaterra: If Bobby Cox has anything to say about it, Fredi Gonzalez will manage the Braves for a long time
(6 - 11:22am, Sep 23)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogMLB: Braves fire GM Frank Wren; John Hart to take over interim position
(142 - 11:21am, Sep 23)
Last: Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora

NewsblogSvrluga: Baseball’s Relentless Grind - The Glue
(10 - 11:20am, Sep 23)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogJeter Denies Gift Basket Rumors
(26 - 11:15am, Sep 23)
Last: bunyon

NewsblogGene Collier: No shame in staying home for Pirates
(7 - 11:00am, Sep 23)
Last: Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB)

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread, September 2014
(368 - 10:27am, Sep 23)
Last: ursus arctos

NewsblogVIDEO: Jose Altuve leaves his feet to hit a high fastball
(5 - 10:14am, Sep 23)
Last: Astroenteritis (tom)

NewsblogA’s lose Triple-A Sacramento affiliate
(93 - 10:11am, Sep 23)
Last: Ace of Kevin Bass

Page rendered in 1.0681 seconds
52 querie(s) executed