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Monday, April 01, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the Oxford comma and unspeakable criminal acts.

 

The District Attorney Posted: April 01, 2013 at 11:27 AM | 1276 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   901. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:59 PM (#4423531)
Primer RT:


David Aldridge ?@daldridgetnt 16m
Reporter asks Ron Artest if Kobe's tweets are a distraction. "Absolutely not," Artest says. "I'M a distraction."
   902. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: April 23, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4423551)
Speaking of free agents, are there any PG's out there that would even be worth it for the Jazz to pursue? I'm not including the Paul types that we'd have no shot at.

I think Jose Calderon is a pretty good player.
   903. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: April 23, 2013 at 03:41 PM (#4423603)
I thought Robin Lopez improved a lot this year, actually.
   904. andrewberg Posted: April 23, 2013 at 04:19 PM (#4423654)
Paul George wins the NBA Most Improved Player Award, ahead of Greivis Vasquez, Larry Sanders, Nikola Vucevic, and Jrue Holiday. Over 30 players received votes from the 120 voters, including Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, James Harden, and Stephen Curry. Even Lance Stephenson and Robin Lopez picked up votes!


That gets into the debate about what "improved" means. I don't think George improved that much, he just got way more opportunities. A lot of guys who win this award are cut from that cloth. Durant actually seems like a fair choice because he upped his game in a lot of ways. Sanders also seems like a good option since he grew a lot.
   905. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: April 23, 2013 at 04:29 PM (#4423670)
how about jj hickson? he put up 12 and 10 for portland this year while shooting 56% from the field, and he did it a year after being cut by one of the worst teams in the league.
   906. Amit Posted: April 23, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4423693)
I usually think of "Most Improved" as guys like Larry Sanders, who went from being a part-timer into a valuable player. Sanders really increased his shooting and rebounding rates, in addition to getting a lot more minutes. Or maybe someone like Jimmy Butler or Vucevic, who improved their play across the board.
   907. cmd600 Posted: April 23, 2013 at 05:42 PM (#4423755)
As a fan of the team, I've heard the full gamut of opinions of fans of the team about the return of Brown to the Cavs, but am really curious as to what outsiders think.
   908. andrewberg Posted: April 23, 2013 at 05:50 PM (#4423766)
My opinion of Brown has not changed much since his first Cleveland stint. He is not a creative coach offensively and he tends to adapt very slowly as things need to change. On the other hand, he is a solid defensive strategist and seems to keep his players relatively happy and focused. On the whole, I think he's probably slightly above-average as a coach with a chance to be better if paired with a good X's and O's offensive assistant. Having an elite offensive PG is another good crutch for an offensively-challenged coach.
   909. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 23, 2013 at 09:54 PM (#4424014)
Iron unkind to the Celtics in the 3rd quarter. 26-6 so far.
   910. RollingWave Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:09 PM (#4424047)
wow the Celtics just fell apart in the 3rd
   911. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:21 PM (#4424057)
Heat beat the Bucks despite only 50 points from the Big 3. Birdman has second straight game of double digit points.
   912. Spivey Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:24 PM (#4424061)
I think Mike Brown is a good coach but I'm not exactly sure what to make of the second go-round. I guess it's everyone openly admitting that they were willing to do anything, regardless of how good of a basketball decision it was, to try to keep LeBron.

It will mostly be irrelevant if they can't nab another big-time player in a year or two. It looked like Tristan Thompson improved his game quite a bit this year.
   913. Morph Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:41 PM (#4424079)
Knicks taking care of business so far. Game three should be interesting. Waiting for the Knicks to have one of those great games from beyond the arc. Hopefully it happens Friday night.
   914. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: April 24, 2013 at 12:15 AM (#4424133)
Man, I hate Andre Miller (in an admiring sort of way).
   915. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 24, 2013 at 12:36 AM (#4424138)
The refereeing of screens in this game (for both squads) is ####### terrible.
   916. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: April 24, 2013 at 01:18 AM (#4424152)
Well, shooting 65% is one way to make up for losing David Lee.
   917. Amit Posted: April 24, 2013 at 01:38 AM (#4424154)
And 56% on 3's! Brewer and Iguodala are usually solid perimeter defenders, but there were way too many open looks for the Warriors. Curry and Thompson should never be left open. I thought Karl played Faried a little too much (21 minutes, 4 pts, 2 rebs) when he didn't seem ready to contribute very much, and maybe not enough of McGee (14 min) and Fournier (9 min). The Warriors were going small, and I thought McGee took advantage of that during the minutes he was in.
   918. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:13 AM (#4424234)
[917] Brewer is not a good perimeter defender IMO. In this scheme, his job, and he takes it very seriously, is to shoot gaps relentlessly looking for the steal, which is obviously extremely dangerous when you're playing GSW. Karl also relied on Faried way too much, who, as you pointed out, wasn't ready and even if he was, is a work in progress defensively. Really missed Gallo on a night like this because his length helps on closeouts and he is a much more sound defender than most of the other Nugget wings and doesn't bite so easily. I want to say this kind of shooting night won't happen again, but...I can't.
   919. AROM Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:29 AM (#4424243)
wow the Celtics just fell apart in the 3rd


Didn't see last night's game, but from the boxscore it looks like they really missed Rondo again, like they did in the 4th quarter of game 1. Knicks fueled that quarter by winning the turnover margin 8-0. That definitely does not happen with Rondo.

Shouldn't be too surprising how much they miss him, except that they played their best basketball from the time he was hurt to the time Pierce/Garnett started taking their playoff preparation rests.
   920. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:36 AM (#4424250)
Knicks fueled that quarter by winning the turnover margin 8-0. That definitely does not happen with Rondo.

Not sure if this is what you're getting at, but I would be interested in seeing how frequently BOS turns it over pre and post-Rondo as he is, in my head, actually a high TO PG.
   921. AROM Posted: April 24, 2013 at 10:57 AM (#4424339)
For the season, they had a 15.2 TO% with Rondo on the floor, 15.8 with him off. His personal TO rate might be high, but that's because he controls the ball so much. Without him the ball handling is split up among players not as good as Rondo at the job, and the Knicks exploited that to a degree that was not done against the Celtics in the regular season.

Rondo also gets a lot of steals, so opponents turn it over 17.2% when he's in, 16% when he isn't. So I think he would have helped on both sides of that 8-0 disparity.

This is not to say that Rondo could have won the game for them. I have no idea. Their shooting has been awful, and Rondo is no kind of shooter.
   922. smileyy Posted: April 24, 2013 at 11:07 AM (#4424351)
Their shooting has been awful, and Rondo is no kind of shooter.


The argument would have to be that he creates better shots. Because if he doesn't do that, what good is he?
   923. robinred Posted: April 24, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4424407)
Rondo is a very good player, and Boston misses him. But this team has often had real trouble getting points on the board in playoff games, ever since Garnett got there (I am not saying it is Garnett's fault, just that it has been a trait of this Boston team in this era, with Rondo or without him).

It does seem more pronounced at the moment, and Boston could use Rondo right now. But scoring in the 70s and 80s against tough playoff opponents has been an issue for Boston before.
   924. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: April 24, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4424415)
Oh, and Rose is officially out for Game 1 today, but the Bulls still won't rule him out for the series and/or playoffs. the 3 games remaining in the Bulls' season

Fixed


I just can't take the Nets too seriously. I think the Bulls showed how to beat them in game 2, and that's without anyone on the Bulls having a great offensive game (not that there's many options for that). The extra off day helps Noah, and there's still a chance the Bulls win this one. I don't really see another blowout in the series future - all 4 regular season games were pretty close (Bulls won that, 3-1, including a game in BKN with a good DWill and w/o Noah and Boozer), so all I'm trying to say is this one is still wide open.

Maxwn: Your pain. I feel it.

I don't think Lakers fans (or honestly, Bulls fans) really do. We've been really spoiled in our lifetimes.

Dunlap out in Charlotte.

The Bobcats would have won 8 or 9 games if their winning percentage from the lockout season was extrapolated to an 82 game season. They won 21 in 2013. Now, when you are re-building wins are not the most important thing. But to fire a guy after one season where there looks to be improvement really looks like Jordan has no clue what he's doing right now. Dunlap might not be right for the job but if he's not he should not have been fired in the first place.


Don't "we" like Cho? How much of this hiring and/or firing is him and how much is MJ?

As a fan of the team, I've heard the full gamut of opinions of fans of the team about the return of Brown to the Cavs, but am really curious as to what outsiders think.

If the only reason they fired him was to try and keep LeBron, then they're trying to fix their mistake. If true and they honestly think they have any chance whatsoever of resigning LeBron next year, they're conceding that now. OTOH, if they fired him because he wasn't a good enough coach, nothing he did in LA could have convinced them they were wrong. Regardless, I really don't think this hiring makes any sense at all, before even considering my opinion of him as a coach (which is less than positive).
   925. Amit Posted: April 24, 2013 at 12:26 PM (#4424471)
[918] Yeah, Brewer has the length and quickness to be a decent defender, but instead he gambles for the steal way too much. Fournier started out pretty well defensively, but Karl gave up on him after he committed a couple of turnovers. What the Nuggets can't do is get into a 3-pt contest with the Warriors - no team in the league will win that.

The Warriors have very little depth, especially in the backcourt - Curry and Jack played 42 minutes each, and Klay played 38. Maybe getting Curry/Jack/Klay in foul trouble will be the key for the Nuggets.
   926. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 24, 2013 at 12:34 PM (#4424485)
The Warriors have very little depth, especially in the backcourt - Curry and Jack played 42 minutes each, and Klay played 38. Maybe getting Curry/Jack/Klay in foul trouble will be the key for the Nuggets.

Another area where the Gallo injury hurts them. He's the best FT shooter on the team and the best at getting to the line.
   927. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 24, 2013 at 12:49 PM (#4424501)
So far:

MVP
ROY
COY
DPOY: M. Gasol
6MOY: J.R. Smith

When are the BBTF Awards being unveiled?
   928. Amit Posted: April 24, 2013 at 12:57 PM (#4424514)
Here is the link to the complete voting for the Defensive Player of the Year award: Defensive Player of the Year (NBA.com)

Top 10: MGasol, LJames, SIbaka, JNoah, TAllen, TDuncan, LSanders, PGeorge, AIguodala, RHibbert
   929. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 24, 2013 at 01:28 PM (#4424560)
so curry looks like he is going to be better than his dad. and boy I thought his dad could shoot. holy cow
   930. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: April 24, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4424566)
Fun comparison of shot charts from yesterday: Celtics in 2nd half and Warriors entire game.
   931. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: April 24, 2013 at 01:34 PM (#4424571)
929: And Andre Miller faced them both.

So, I don't believe there's ever been a father and son in the league at the same time. What's the closest we've come?
   932. smileyy Posted: April 24, 2013 at 01:42 PM (#4424585)
Are the Griffeys the only time that's happened in baseball? Or am I forgetting another pairing, and the Griffeys were the first on the same team?

If LeBron James Jr. can get into the league at age 19, LeBron would be 39 or 40 around that time.
   933. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: April 24, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4424602)
What's the closest we've come?

Not counting Delonte West as LeBron's stepdad?
   934. GregD Posted: April 24, 2013 at 01:53 PM (#4424608)
Gerald Wilkins and Damien Wilkins? There was about 5 years between G's retirement and D's entry. Lots of the dads seem to have their kids later in life and to be well retired by the time their kids enter--Curry, Bryant, Bibby, Walker, Brewer, Walton, Dunleavy, Schayes
   935. Booey Posted: April 24, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4424618)
Didn't Malone's daughter play in the WNBA while Karl was still playing?

That doesn't count though cuz the WNBA doesn't matter.
   936. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: April 24, 2013 at 01:58 PM (#4424623)
Tim Raines Jr. and Sr. were teammates as well.
The Gwynns missed each other by two years.

Good one, Moses.
   937. Amit Posted: April 24, 2013 at 02:09 PM (#4424637)
If you count coaches, then the Rivers (Doc, Austin) and Dunleavys (Mike, Mike Jr.) would fit.
   938. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 24, 2013 at 02:12 PM (#4424646)
When are the BBTF Awards being unveiled?


Voting is now closed. I'll try to find some time this afternoon or evening to tally them up; no later than the end of the week.
   939. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: April 24, 2013 at 02:31 PM (#4424678)
After Lee went down, I picked Denver to win in 5, so crow-eating time.

This was essentially the November/December Nuggets v. the February/March Nuggets, with the Warriors playing the part of the confident, aggressive late season Nuggets.

The Nuggets have 3 major flaws:
- free throw shooting
- perimeter defense
- outside shooting

All those things cost them in G1-G2, plus making their bigs wear ankle weights.

The reason they had such an outstanding second half of the season is that every night they played THEIR game, which was to run off turnovers, run off made baskets, get to the paint. For two games now, they've quite doing that. Yes, there's the old adage that it's harder to run when you are taking the ball out of the basket, but for three months they did that! I give GS all the credit in the world, but DEN is doing themselves no favors inbounding to Ty Lawson who lets the ball roll to half court before walking it up.

I think they will go back to pushing the pace in G3, even on the road. You'd have to think that they are going to figure out how to exploit their size and athleticism under the boards (or at least not get outworked).

What really worries me is the perimeter defense. NJ in NY is right, Brewer gambles way too much on defense, the whole team does. (There was a blog on this somewhere, essentially the Nuggets gamble for steals more than any other team in the league.) They need to scrap what they are trying to do and start over. My prediction: We'll see a lot more Iggy one-on-one v. Curry. Instead of DEN trying to double-team Curry when he drives (which killed them), Iggy will overplay him to try to push him inside towards whatever big is on that side of the court. That way, the help comes from a big man in the lane, instead of a wing leaving him 40% shooter wide open beyond the arc. Curry can beat that with mid-range jumpers or dishing inside, but those seem preferable to GS dropping 3s
   940. jmurph Posted: April 24, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4424778)
so curry looks like he is going to be better than his dad. and boy I thought his dad could shoot. holy cow


He might be the most fun player to watch in the NBA when he's on (minus Lebron at his Lebroniest). That little one-footed thing off the dribble last night was ridiculous. It was from around the free throw line or further out, but he took it like it was a layup. And his performance at MSG this year was probably my favorite game of the season.
   941. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 24, 2013 at 03:38 PM (#4424814)
He might be the most fun player to watch in the NBA when he's on (minus Lebron at his Lebroniest).


No way, it's gotta be Javale.
   942. Maxwn Posted: April 24, 2013 at 03:59 PM (#4424876)
No way, it's gotta be Javale.

I think you are confusing fun to watch with funny to watch.
   943. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 24, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4424884)
I think you are confusing fun to watch with funny to watch.

Javale is both.
   944. Maxwn Posted: April 24, 2013 at 04:05 PM (#4424896)
Javale is both.

Yeah, fair enough.
   945. jmurph Posted: April 24, 2013 at 04:11 PM (#4424915)
No way, it's gotta be Javale.


I live in DC so, while I'm not a Wiz fan, I'm going to have to politely disagree.
   946. Amit Posted: April 24, 2013 at 04:14 PM (#4424923)
So what do the Hawks need to do against the Pacers? Clearly, Horford has to play more than Game 1's 28 minutes for them to have a chance. The Hawks played small in Game 1, and got killed on the boards 48-32, but Larry Drew has said that he will use the same starting lineup in Game 2. That lineup probably means that Korver guards Paul George, which didn't work too well in Game 1. But since the primary starting alternatives are Ivan Johnson, Johan Petro, or maybe Dahntay Jones, none of the other options are very appealing either.
   947. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: April 24, 2013 at 04:30 PM (#4424947)
So what do the Hawks need to do against the Pacers?


1) Play Horford, Teague and Smith (if he's physically able) more then 40 minutes each.
2) Korver has to make enough shots to mitigate his inability to guard Paul George.
3) Have a third guy help Smith and Horford on the defensive glass.
   948. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: April 24, 2013 at 06:37 PM (#4425091)
I live in DC so, while I'm not a Wiz fan, I'm going to have to politely disagree.
interestingly, javale mcgee had a 20 PER this year, john wall had a 20 PER, andray baltche had a 22 PER. all 3 were actually in the top 25 in the NBA while playing a not-insignificant amount of minutes.

   949. Amit Posted: April 24, 2013 at 08:14 PM (#4425161)
[947] Larry Drew plays the last 3 minutes of the 1Q with Horford, Teague, and JSmith on the bench, going with a lineup of DHarris, Dahntay Jones, Ivan Johnson, Petro, and DStevenson. How would that group be expected to score? Meanwhile, the Pacers play George and Hibbard the entire quarter, and turn a 17-17 game to a 25-19 lead. Drew really needs to let his key players play major minutes.
   950. RollingWave Posted: April 24, 2013 at 08:50 PM (#4425196)
so Kevin McHale surprised everyone and started a lineups of

Beverly
Lin
Harden
Parsosn
Asik

and it's actually working so far, though Lin's out with some sort of chest injury and they're in pretty serious foul trouble.
   951. RollingWave Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:29 PM (#4425224)
wow, Rockets tied it up with 4min left to go.

   952. JJ1986 Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:42 PM (#4425234)
Perkins grabbed onto Parsons so he couldn't close on the shooter. The refs were too busy waiting to call a foul against the Rockets to see.
   953. JJ1986 Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:50 PM (#4425237)
And the game is now over as with Houston down 2 possessions, Carlos Delfino uses 10 of the 11 seconds remaining before they score 2.
   954. RollingWave Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:52 PM (#4425239)
The Rockets do have a couple more free throws though, so it wasn't Lakeresque terrible, but yeah, the Rockets really couldn't afford any marginal penalties to them. they won the rebounding game big time this game which is what they (and most other non MIA team) need to do to beat OKC.

it also hurts that Lin was out oft he second half and they had to play like 5 minutes of Aaron Brooks who proceeded to suck.
   955. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: April 24, 2013 at 10:25 PM (#4425283)
Glad to see my rooting for Beverley (at non-Mahinmi levels, but still) has paid off.
   956. RollingWave Posted: April 24, 2013 at 10:45 PM (#4425297)
Beverly have been an amazing defender this year to be sure, even if he's still a limited offensive presence at best. but yeah.. Houston could surely use a good defender or 3.

   957. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: April 24, 2013 at 10:59 PM (#4425312)
Beverley outperformed my expectations on O, to be honest. 38% from three, where half his shots come from + an ATR over 2.5 - that with plus rebounding and pressure D yielded a PER of 15.4.
   958. nick swisher hygiene Posted: April 25, 2013 at 12:11 AM (#4425337)
Harden shot 20 FT; the entire OKC team shot 25. Just got back from the game. You wanna pick an example of home cooking in the NBA, tonight wd be pretty far down the list........fans booed Harden heartily: funniest moment came when a little girl right behind me (we were one row from the back) yelled out "take your beard and go back to Houston!"--ok it doesn't look so funny in print, but imagine the profoundly outraged 3rd grade girl tone of voice......
   959. RollingWave Posted: April 25, 2013 at 01:13 AM (#4425353)
The rest of the Houston team also only shot like 6 FT, and that Chandler Parsons / Perkin thing was pretty crazy unless your going to say that it was Parsons grabbing Perkin's arm, though Parsons did probably flop a little bit to over dramatize the effect.

   960. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM (#4425566)
RT @tomhaberstroh Most contested jumpers taken per game this season under SportVU cameras: Kobe, 10.2. Next highest? Carmelo 6.3. Massive drop-off.
   961. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 25, 2013 at 02:44 PM (#4425703)
RT @tomhaberstroh Most contested jumpers taken per game this season under SportVU cameras: Kobe, 10.2. Next highest? Carmelo 6.3. Massive drop-off.
Are you questioning the Mamba? DON'T QUESTION THE MAMBA.
   962. andrewberg Posted: April 25, 2013 at 02:53 PM (#4425707)
From the looks of things, the Lakers could use some of his contested jumpers this series.
   963. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 25, 2013 at 03:10 PM (#4425723)
What he said! For all the criticism Bryant gets, there's no question when he's on the court the Laker offense is better by leaps and bounds.
   964. smileyy Posted: April 25, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4425736)
RT @tomhaberstroh Most contested jumpers taken per game this season under SportVU cameras: Kobe, 10.2. Next highest? Carmelo 6.3. Massive drop-off.


The most impressive part is his career-high eFG% while doing that.
   965. robinred Posted: April 25, 2013 at 03:55 PM (#4425754)
Haberstroh was speculating before the series about "how Kobe would react" and "what the implications would be if the Lakers played better without him" (Haberstroh is 100% objective when it comes to The Mamba, of course, like all the ESPN guys--Lakers fans are the problem).

As I said a couple of days ago, IMO it is pretty clear that Kobe was in fact really compromising the team D, even in comparison to a guy like Blake (who has done a nice job bothering Parker) and the harsh criticism of his D from both inside and outside the fanbase has been pretty much warranted. But, as noted above, they really miss his ability to score and occupy the other team's defense, contested jumpers or no. If Nash were healthy and a few years younger, Mambaless balll might work. As it is, not so much. Ginobili has been one of the big reasons the Spurs have shown their superiority.
   966. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 25, 2013 at 05:22 PM (#4425850)
Longer post coming, but didn't post the stats to tear down Kobe.
   967. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 25, 2013 at 09:31 PM (#4426022)
You know who has 23 points (including five 3s) tonight?

Hint: It's definitely not Jason Terry.
   968. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 25, 2013 at 09:34 PM (#4426024)
Steve Blake out indefinitely. Steve Nash is doubtful for Game 3. The Laker roster is literally falling apart; they may be starting Jodie Meeks and Darius Morris in a playoff game.
   969. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 25, 2013 at 09:41 PM (#4426027)
How about those last two posts? 2008-10 seems like forever ago now.
   970. robinred Posted: April 25, 2013 at 09:44 PM (#4426029)
Blake is out, and Nash and Meeks are doubtful for tomorrow. It looks like a guard rotation of Duhon, Morris and Goudelock will be taking on the Spurs. The Lakers may need to take a look at the training/medical program at this point. Even with an old team, this seems like a lot of health issues.
   971. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: April 25, 2013 at 09:50 PM (#4426032)
What a turn around, the nets were up 10 way early in the game and now trail at the half...
   972. robinred Posted: April 25, 2013 at 09:50 PM (#4426033)
Oops--sorry Hombre. Didn't see that.
   973. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: April 26, 2013 at 12:36 AM (#4426043)
And the Bulls pull ahead in the series 2-1!
   974. Maxwn Posted: April 26, 2013 at 12:39 AM (#4426045)
Now it's a series in Memphis.

Got to say, I didn't expect 2010 Z-Bo to show up this postseason but he did tonight. 27/11 on 50% shooting. The Grizz defense also really showed up for a whole game for the first time in the series.

   975. smileyy Posted: April 26, 2013 at 04:43 AM (#4426082)
In MIA-MIL news, Shaquille O'Neal was heard comment that Brandon Jennings can tell LeBron James how LeBron's ass tastes.
   976. RollingWave Posted: April 26, 2013 at 05:47 AM (#4426084)
Whoever pays Jennings next season is probably gonna regret it, they guy shoots under 40(!!) percent for his career, and shows little signs of improving there.

   977. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: April 26, 2013 at 11:46 AM (#4426269)
rumor! Kahn out in minny, flip in as prez of hoops ops
   978. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 26, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4426278)
Excuse my rambling...

The Kobe contested jumpers stat got me thinking about the ways we evaluate players and what we mean when we say Player X is better than Player Y? How do we evaluate value and should we consider it separately from ability? For example, Kobe was hugely valuable this season by any statistical measure, but based on that it seems he was valuable in SPITE of himself. However, if was able to be this valuable at this age with that shot selection...how high would his value be if he had LeBron's shot distribution? Would his value be hurt by taking better shots since maybe he accumulates some of his value from being willing to take any/every shot? None of these are new questions, but seeing that stat yesterday just got me thinking about it again because Kobe was so good this year despite taking a shot type that any/every person associated with the game of basketball, stat geek or not, would say is a bad shot and doing so way more than the next closest guy.
   979. AROM Posted: April 26, 2013 at 12:19 PM (#4426294)
The baseball comparable for Kobe is obviously Vladimir Guerrero. Terrible shot, oh wait, great shot Kobe. How can you swing at that pitch? I mean, great hit Vlad.
   980. andrewberg Posted: April 26, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4426298)
I am mostly relieved that Kahn is out in Minnesota, but I have not seen much evidence that Saunders as an executive will be a savior.

NJ- Those are very good context-based questions. I think the short answer about shot selection is that one of the things that makes Lebron so special is that he CAN get those shots. He gets shots in the post and at the rim because he can absorb contact with little effect, and he gets uncontested jumpers because defenders play off of him due to his ability to blow by them going either direction. Phenomenal as Kobe is (and he is probably still a better jump shooter than Lebron) he does not get those shots based on the totality of his skills. All the same, the need to guard him everywhere- or else give him open jumpers that he usually makes- frees things up inside by pulling a defender out on him at all times and often forcing help/rotations. We are seeing the other side of that now.

I was thinking about a similar philosophical thing during the LA-MEM game last night. It seemed like the Grizzlies were having to work really hard to get good shots in the half court because the Clippers were not scared of anyone more than 12 feet from the basket. Even when Gay was playing inefficiently, he took a body out of the paint. The Grizzlies did a great job passing inside and getting to the line to overcome the difficulty on that night, which has not always been the case. It is hard to quantify the value of having someone force the defense to gameplan to keep someone out of the paint, but I have convinced that there is significant value in it.
   981. andrewberg Posted: April 26, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4426302)
One more thing about floor spacing: the other side of saying that a guy you have to guard outside is valuable would be to say that being able to keep extra defenders in/near the paint is also valuable. We have seen Thibodeau deploy this strategy to GREAT success in the last 5 years. He shades post defenders to the side of the penetrating player but does not take the help away from the basket- he makes the offensive player come to the help if he wants to get an easier shot. It is valuable because it is easier for the interior player to recover if the offense swings the ball to the other side.
   982. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: April 26, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4426303)
Very ugly game between the Bulls and Nets. Well, great defense by the Bulls, at least, after that initial Nets burst. The Bulls are very capable of losing game 4. They won with Noah not playing great, and it's a much shorter turnaround to tomorrow's noon start. At the same time, the Bulls should have a good offensive game one of these nights (I'm looking at you, NateRob). I don't count on Boozer playing this well again, but he really should take advantage of the Nets like he did last night. The Bulls seem ok with letting Lopez get his, and are doing everything they can to limit DWill (I won't go so far as to say Hinrich is outplaying him, but it's much closer than it should be). Gerald Wallace is so washed up, which is sad to watch.
   983. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 26, 2013 at 12:45 PM (#4426314)
Westbrook done. Torn meniscus. Surgery scheduled. West is wiiiiiide open.

EDIT: I might have overreacted. Kpelton says on twitter he wouldn't rule out a 2 week recovery for Russell.
   984. Manny Coon Posted: April 26, 2013 at 12:47 PM (#4426316)
So Del Negro gives a combined 23 minutes to Hollins and Turiaf, while Odom only plays 14 and Jordan only plays 24, with neither Jordan or Odom in foul trouble, how does that make sense? Also Bledsoe who had playoff PER of about 37 coming in the game, only played 7 minutes before the start of the 4th quarter, again what the hell? Neither Odom or Bledsoe had particularly good games in the few minutes they did play, but the did have best +/- numbers on the team and are the Clippers best two defensive players. Jordan has been the best rebounder for either team during the series and has kept Gasol mostly under control, apparently that isn't good enough to keep Hollins and Turiaf locked to the bench where they belong.

Del Negro is terrible. I think the Clippers will be the Grizzlies anyway, but I think OKC will crush them, even though I don't think the talent difference is all that big.
   985. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: April 26, 2013 at 12:51 PM (#4426320)
OKC without Westbrook is going to be an interesting look at the Let Westbrook be Westbrook v. Give Durant the Ball argument.
   986. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: April 26, 2013 at 12:56 PM (#4426323)
Westbrook done. Torn meniscus. Surgery scheduled. West is wiiiiiide open.

EDIT: I might have overreacted. Kpelton says on twitter he wouldn't rule out a 2 week recovery for Russell.


Geez. Good thing for OKC the first round lasts 3 months.
   987. Manny Coon Posted: April 26, 2013 at 01:19 PM (#4426334)
Del Negro is terrible. I think the Clippers will be the Grizzlies anyway, but I think OKC will crush them, even though I don't think the talent difference is all that big.


Of course as I'm typing this news comes out about Westbrook, so maybe Del Negro can fake his way through things a bit longer.
   988. nick swisher hygiene Posted: April 26, 2013 at 01:38 PM (#4426343)
983-- ####.

Saw it happen: Westbrook was really angry; limped visibly the first time up the floor after the TO--but then he kept attacking.
There was definitely a minute where everybody in the building was watching him on the sideline absolutely fearing the worst......
   989. nick swisher hygiene Posted: April 26, 2013 at 01:42 PM (#4426348)
assuming no Westbrook, does anybody in the West have as much talent as the Clippers right now?
   990. andrewberg Posted: April 26, 2013 at 01:44 PM (#4426349)
It's hard to forget the whooping the Spurs gave the Clippers last year if anyone wants to look at those two matching up. I am not ready to assume the Clips will beat the Grizz yet, let alone the Thunder.
   991. robinred Posted: April 26, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4426356)
Terrible news on Westbrook. Rose, Westbrook, Gallinari, Rondo, Bryant...not good for the entertainment value of the playoffs.

We were talking about Chris Andersen making a difference in Miami a few weeks ago:

tomhaberstroh Tom Haberstroh
Chris Andersen's playoff numbers so far: 31 points and 19 rebounds on 13-of-15 shooting (87 percent) in 43 minutes.


The injury does obviously open up the window a little wider for the Grizzlies, the Clippers, and the Spurs.
   992. smileyy Posted: April 26, 2013 at 01:57 PM (#4426359)
[991] Sure, if they want to win an asterisk'ed WCF title.
   993. Manny Coon Posted: April 26, 2013 at 01:59 PM (#4426360)
It's hard to forget the whooping the Spurs gave the Clippers last year if anyone wants to look at those two matching up. I am not ready to assume the Clips will beat the Grizz yet, let alone the Thunder.


Paul and Griffin were both playing hurt against the Spurs last year. I think they are more talented than Spurs, but the Spurs are much better coached, they are probably about a toss up if they played. They were 2-2 against each other in the regular season and had pretty much the same pythag record.
   994. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: April 26, 2013 at 02:05 PM (#4426361)
Paul and Griffin were both playing hurt against the Spurs last year. I think they are more talented than Spurs, but the Spurs are much better coached, they are probably about a toss up if they played. They were 2-2 against each other in the regular season and had pretty much the same pythag record.

The coaching advantage will be even more significant in the playoffs, IMO, were they to meet.
   995. robinred Posted: April 26, 2013 at 02:09 PM (#4426362)
All the same, the need to guard him everywhere


Yeah, the phrase I used a couple of years ago when I talked about this was "the defense has to account for him all over the floor" but same thing. The pattern we are seeing now (the D being better without him, but the O, including the bigs, having trouble getting looks without him) has actually been somewhat visible when he has missed games since 2010. It is just that

a) His D has gotten worse
b) The MSM was still putting him on the All-D team until this year
c) This is the playoffs

So people are noticing more now.

One mistake that media guys and some others (not very often here that I have seen) make when they try to analyze Bryant's effect on the Lakers is that they focus on him too much and ignore the rest of the team, due to the emotional pull that he continues to have on so many people. In this case, if the Lakers had a young plus-D wing who could score a little(think poor man's Arron Afflalo) being blocked by Vino and a healthy and effective Nash, one might in fact have been able to make an argument that they would be better off, short-term, without Bryant.

As it is, of course, they have NO backup wing of any kind, are using Meeks and Blake a lot, and Nash is in terrible shape physically, so there was really no chance that the team would be better overall without Bryant. Most observers got that, I think, but there were a few who didn't.
   996. jmurph Posted: April 26, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4426366)
I wonder if this doesn't lessen slightly Miami's (still favorable) odds: I couldn't previously see anyone in the West beating OKC, but I also couldn't see OKC beating Miami, due to the match-ups.

EDIT: Just to finish the thought, a (magically) completely healthy Spurs team would certainly present a different challenge for Miami.
   997. robinred Posted: April 26, 2013 at 02:14 PM (#4426367)
Speaking of emotional pull, Kobe is supposedly going to be at the game tonight.
   998. robinred Posted: April 26, 2013 at 02:19 PM (#4426371)
WallaceNBA_ESPN Michael Wallace
Wade is "day to day" in how team approaching his health. Spoelstra would not say if resting Wade for a game is option.
about an hour ago WallaceNBA_ESPN Michael Wallace
Heat coach Erick Spoelstra tells media today that D.Wade (knee) is headed to get treatment.
   999. andrewberg Posted: April 26, 2013 at 02:27 PM (#4426377)
Getting out of Round 1 in 4 games would certainly give Wade some time to rest.
   1000. robinred Posted: April 26, 2013 at 02:29 PM (#4426383)
Flip Murray
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