Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, April 03, 2014

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2014

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about, which I forgot.

Have posts been building up inside you?

The District Attorney Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:26 PM | 2387 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 16 of 24 pages ‹ First  < 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 >  Last ›
   1501. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 15, 2014 at 09:52 AM (#4707259)
C'mon. Knee injuries happen, especially to skinny point guards who like to penetrate the lane and take high degree of difficulty shots while moving laterally in the air. And it doesn't help that he has a coach who thinks the human body is made of titanium steel.

I agree with most of this - especially the Thibs criticism - but I wouldn't exactly call Rose skinny. I'd call Rondo skinny (or Durant), but Rose is built like a tank (as least as far as PGs go). He takes (took) a lot of extra contact and beating because he can absorb more than most guys his height; while that might not have anything directly to do with his various knee issues, it has contributed to other injuries (which then might cause more stress on his knees, etc....).
   1502. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 15, 2014 at 10:24 AM (#4707302)
Warriors fire inspirational genius beloved by all, feverishly recruit guy with no experience who says "Sure I'll take the job, it's convenient to where I live"
   1503. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 15, 2014 at 10:46 AM (#4707328)
From that link:

The Knicks must now regroup after centering their initial search for Mike Woodson's replacement on Kerr. But sources with knowledge of the situation said that Oklahoma City guard Derek Fisher and Lakers assistant coach Kurt Rambis, both of whom are close to Phil Jackson, are likely to be considered.


Whoa. If they made him a player coach, would his salary count against the luxury tax?

And to chime in agreement with a post on the previous page, I don't think there's any way Phil would consider Marc Jackson.
   1504. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 15, 2014 at 11:52 AM (#4707421)
   1505. Jimmy P Posted: May 15, 2014 at 11:54 AM (#4707425)
And to chime in agreement with a post on the previous page, I don't think there's any way Phil would consider Marc Jackson.


I don't know if Mark Jackson would consider it. His church is in LA, and he was going back and forth between SF and LA.

Rambis? Haven't we seen this before?
   1506. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 15, 2014 at 12:59 PM (#4707483)
but Houston ('83, '84), St. John's ('85), and GATech ('04) have all made the final four before.

Gordon/1462 - one part of the question dealt with teams that have never won a title (like those three). Believe me, I remember the GT championship loss to UConn...
   1507. GordonShumway Posted: May 15, 2014 at 01:17 PM (#4707506)
but Houston ('83, '84), St. John's ('85), and GATech ('04) have all made the final four before.

Gordon/1462 - one part of the question dealt with teams that have never won a title (like those three). Believe me, I remember the GT championship loss to UConn...


ahh, i knew i should have re-read the question.

Off the top of my head, Notre Dame seems like it churns out a lot of NBA players, but never seems to field much of a team. I can't even remember the last time it was in the top 10, and even if it was there recently, it couldn't have been there too long.
   1508. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 15, 2014 at 01:37 PM (#4707524)
Hmmm. Notre Dame has won 2 national championships, but both pre-F4 days. Good one!
318,006 NBA minutes by 52 guys, 11 with 10K+ minute careers (mostly forwards) - Laimbeer and Dantley are the big two. Only one S16 appearance in the last quarter century.
   1509. Publius Publicola Posted: May 15, 2014 at 01:52 PM (#4707542)
Austin Carr and John Shumate with biggtime players who had their NBA careers derailed by injuries.

Oh, and Tripucka. Don't forget the crybaby.
   1510. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 15, 2014 at 01:57 PM (#4707548)
But sources with knowledge of the situation said that Oklahoma City guard Derek Fisher and Lakers assistant coach Kurt Rambis,


Has Fisher announced his retirement or something? He's just as "effective" today as he was four years ago.

Kidd went directly from the floor to the bench. Has anyone else been a head coach immediately after retiring?
   1511. Publius Publicola Posted: May 15, 2014 at 02:05 PM (#4707555)
He's just as "effective" today as he was four years ago.


Not since they started calling flops a little tighter.
   1512. Publius Publicola Posted: May 15, 2014 at 02:12 PM (#4707561)
Kidd went directly from the floor to the bench. Has anyone else been a head coach immediately after retiring?


Are you counting player coaches? There've been lots of those.

Ainge sort of did with Phoenix. Elgin Baylor sat out a year or two, then coached the Jazz. Zelmo Beatty went straight to coaching. Schayes last year, Philly made him the player coach, then fulltime as coach only.

There are lots.
   1513. Jimmy P Posted: May 15, 2014 at 02:17 PM (#4707569)
Ok, so why is the media overblowing the "Allure of Phil?" He's a first time GM who we are unsure of how much power he has. No one knows how overbearing he's going to be. We do know that he has a very healthy ego and is going to want attention and credit.

As for Kerr turning this allure down - I've had bosses I've liked. Friends I've worked with. You know what allure is more powerful than even my best friends and bosses? My wife and kid. This isn't brain surgery here.
   1514. Publius Publicola Posted: May 15, 2014 at 02:21 PM (#4707573)
Ok, so why is the media overblowing the "Allure of Phil?"


Because Stan Van Gundy lacks his charisma.
   1515. Publius Publicola Posted: May 15, 2014 at 02:23 PM (#4707574)
Maybe Pops is legally dead?


Why is Tony Parker trying to read that playbook upside down?
   1516. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 15, 2014 at 02:33 PM (#4707588)
1509/PP - I originally included Tripucka as a third biggie. Man, they had a lot of future NBA players on the teams of his era ... Tripucka, Woolridge, John Paxson, and Bill Hanzlik among them.
   1517. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 15, 2014 at 02:34 PM (#4707590)
Ok, so why is the media overblowing the "Allure of Phil?"

I don't get it either.
   1518. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 15, 2014 at 02:52 PM (#4707606)
Are you counting player coaches? There've been lots of those.


No, not counting player/coaches (although it would be cool to have one of those again). Just trying to think of guys that went directly from playing to coaching, and mainly curious to see Fisher listed as a possible coach of the Knicks when the guy will be playing in a game tonight.

   1519. GregD Posted: May 15, 2014 at 03:16 PM (#4707634)
I think fisher did announce this is his last season right?
   1520. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 15, 2014 at 03:20 PM (#4707636)
Ainge sort of did with Phoenix. Elgin Baylor sat out a year or two, then coached the Jazz. Zelmo Beatty went straight to coaching. Schayes last year, Philly made him the player coach, then fulltime as coach only.


Billy Cunningham comes to mind, too, speaking of Philly.

I don't think Zelmo's stint with Virginia counts. That poor team had something like 6 coaches* that year.

Kevin Loughery went from Philly player-coach to fired as coach & retired as a player, then became the ABA Nets' coach the following season.



*I thought I was exaggerating, but the Remember the ABA site lists precisely that number -- Al Bianchi, Bill Musselman, Mack Calvin, Willie Wise, Jack Ankerson and Zelmo Beaty. Whether that's the correct order, I have no idea. I do remember reading in Loose Balls that Beaty was bitter because no one would give him the time of day as a coaching prospect after that trainwreck. I do see via Google that he coached the 2nd half of the season, with the team going 9-33 (as compared to 6-35 before that), so I take back my initial questioning of whether that should count.
   1521. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 15, 2014 at 06:04 PM (#4707785)
I never thought of the Bulls as a true rival either. Like Moses said, the opposite conference thing kinda kills that idea since they're not competing with each other for division titles or playoff seeding every year. I'd add Portland and Seattle to your list of Jazz rivals; in the Stockton/Malone era, I'd actually rank both of them higher than the Lakers. The Lakers were the biggest rivals of the DWill/Boozer era, obviously.


Yeah Sonics I do think of as rivals too. For some reason I don't remember the Blazers as rivals, but it could be a generational thing as my very earliest NBA memories are mid-90s and then not many.

And I think you'll appreciate this.
   1522. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 15, 2014 at 06:18 PM (#4707793)
Nate McMillan and Avery Johnson had a single year as an assistant between playing and head coaching.
   1523. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 15, 2014 at 06:31 PM (#4707797)
Wilt went from the Lakers to the ABA's San Diego team after '72-'73, ostensibly as a player-coach, but the courts kept him from suiting up & playing. After a year as pretty much a figurehead coach, he retired as a player.
   1524. robinred Posted: May 15, 2014 at 06:41 PM (#4707800)
I think Phil probably has some "allure"--but 5/25 to coach the Warriors is a heck of a gig. Cool place to live if you are a wealthy Californian, good team, good pay, new arena coming etc. Plus, as noted Kerr has a kid at Berkeley. Hard to turn all that down.

And the NBA is first, last, and always a talent league--and the Knicks don't have a good roster.

   1525. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 15, 2014 at 06:48 PM (#4707803)
Also from the ABA -- Larry Brown's playing career ended with the Denver Rockets in '72. The next season he coached the Carolina Cougars.
   1526. andrewberg Posted: May 15, 2014 at 07:07 PM (#4707814)
Even before he started coaching, Larry Brown was busy looking for his next coaching gig.
   1527. Booey Posted: May 15, 2014 at 07:52 PM (#4707837)
Tom - Yeah, Blazers seem like a big rival to me mainly cuz they were the first team I hated. Jazz lost to them back to back years in 1991 and 1992, which I'm pretty sure were the first postseasons I paid close attention to. Then they beat the Jazz again back to back in 1999 and 2000 - which pretty much put the finishing touches on Stockton/Malone's title hopes - so the rivalry was cemented in my mind. Stockton/Malone actually faced Portland six times in the playoffs, which was more than any other team. Their win in 1988 was a little before my time and for some reason I barely remember their first round win in 1996, so all that's stuck in my mind are the losses.

And the Ostertag nostalia pic was awesome! :-) Yeah, we need Wiggins (or Parker. I'm not choosey)
   1528. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 15, 2014 at 10:14 PM (#4707888)
Bradley Beal just taking the ball from Hibbert then draining that three, that's the 2nd half in a nutshell.
   1529. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 15, 2014 at 10:19 PM (#4707892)
David West has been a machine. Wall and Beal seem to have forgotten about Gortat and Nene. All long jumpers again.
   1530. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 15, 2014 at 10:29 PM (#4707896)
The Wizards are such a frustrating team to watch. Talented on paper, stupid on the court.
   1531. AROM Posted: May 15, 2014 at 11:01 PM (#4707908)
Yeah. Wall and Beal will get smarter though. They have made great strides. Wittman, I have my doubts. They need an impact coach to bring them to the next level.
   1532. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 15, 2014 at 11:29 PM (#4707923)
So the Wiz finish this postseason 5-1 on the road and 1-4 at home. Is 3.5 games better on the road a playoff record?
   1533. thok Posted: May 15, 2014 at 11:45 PM (#4707929)
So the Wiz finish this postseason 5-1 on the road and 1-4 at home. Is 3.5 games better on the road a playoff record?


I'm pretty sure the 1994-1995 Rockets have a similar split.
   1534. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 16, 2014 at 12:57 AM (#4707952)
I'm pretty sure the 1994-1995 Rockets have a similar split.


Looks like 6-4 at home, 9-3 on the road (2 game difference).
   1535. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 16, 2014 at 01:00 AM (#4707953)
Sources: Donald Sterling refuses NBA sanctions, threatens to sue
SI.com has learned that Clippers owner Donald Sterling has hired prominent antitrust litigator Maxwell Blecher, who has written a letter to NBA executive vice president and general counsel Rick Buchanan threatening to sue the NBA. The letter, sources tell SI.com, claims that Sterling has done nothing wrong and that "no punishment is warranted" for Sterling. Blecher also tells Buchanan that Sterling will not pay the $2.5 million fine, which is already past due. Blecher ends the letter by saying this controversy "will be adjudicated."
   1536. Publius Publicola Posted: May 16, 2014 at 09:43 AM (#4708016)
Blecher also tells Buchanan that Sterling will not pay the $2.5 million fine, which is already past due.


Is that even legal?

You know, when you think about it, even though what Sterling said is hateful and he's an obvious ass, I think the NBA is going to have a rough time of it if this goes to court. Saying stupid #### in the privacy of your own home, with an expectation that what is being said is confidential, is not illegal.

Of course, IANAL so I'd be interested in the legal perspective.
   1537. TFTIO can't talk like this -- he's so sorry. Posted: May 16, 2014 at 10:10 AM (#4708037)
From a pure theatre perspective, I hope Sterling fights this to the death.
   1538. Spivey Posted: May 16, 2014 at 10:11 AM (#4708040)
Well it was a pretty interesting adventure to get here, but ultimately these are the two conference finals series I wanted to see. Basketball!
   1539. AROM Posted: May 16, 2014 at 10:23 AM (#4708047)
I don't think Sterling can "win" in terms of eliminating the fine and getting to keep control of his team. But he probably can run out the clock. He's 81 and looks like a corpse. He might have cancer and/or dementia - I don't know if either of those rumors have been confirmed, but from his tapes/interviews he sure sounds like someone whose mental capability is going.

I suspect that's the plan - time to resolve this in court is greater than Sterling's expected remaining lifespan.
   1540. AROM Posted: May 16, 2014 at 10:36 AM (#4708057)
Well it was a pretty interesting adventure to get here, but ultimately these are the two conference finals series I wanted to see. Basketball!


I was really hoping the Wizards could pull this out. I'm not a lifetime Wizards fan or anything but the team plays within walking distance of where I work and they have grown on me.

In the end, we're getting the matchup in the East that was seen as inevitable from either the beginning of the season or at least from D Rose's injury, and only called into question with some late season slumps.

In the west, I think we're getting the two teams that would have been picked as most likely to be there from the beginning of the season.

Not sure what to think about Indiana - are they back in form, or did they just prevail after tough series against one team that lacked talent and another that lacked postseason experience? I could see them giving Miami another tough, 7 game matchup and maybe winning it. I could see Miami sweeping or at least controlling in 5. I cannot imagine a situation where Indiana handles Miami with ease, unless Lebron was seriously injured. I'd say 75% Miami goes back to the finals.

In the west, I have to go with OKC. They were 4-0 against the Spurs this year, and I think it means a bit more than the Brooklyn Celtics beating Miami in the regular season. I just don't think they have an answer for when Durant and Westbrook go crazy. 65% for the Thunder.
   1541. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 16, 2014 at 10:43 AM (#4708067)
Blecher also tells Buchanan that Sterling will not pay the $2.5 million fine, which is already past due.

Is that even legal?


Based on what I've read about the NBA Owners constitution, I think by not paying the fine Sterling has actually made it even easier for the league to get rid of him. Non-payment is grounds for immediate termination of ownership, IIRC. The NBA can also demonstrate the negative impact of his ownership on the team through lost sponsors, etc, and use that in their favor. IOW, I don't think it's going to come down to the NBA getting rid of him because he said stupid, hateful stuff.

All Sterling can really try to do is challenge the NBA Constitution's legality itself, as well as all the stuff he's signed over the years agreeing with those terms (plus the implied agreement that comes with participating as an owner for 30 years). I don't think he stands a chance in hell of this going anywhere.

But speaking of the Sterling stuff, this piece on Kevin Johnson is just...yeesh.
   1542. Rob_Wood Posted: May 16, 2014 at 10:57 AM (#4708078)

Is Sterling the owner with the most tenure? If he signed some papers 30 years ago when he became an owner, are the bylaws the same today? Has he had to re-sign every time the bylaws change? Maybe there is some perfunctory conference call "vote" once a year to ratify the current bylaws.
   1543. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 16, 2014 at 11:02 AM (#4708084)
I don't think Sterling can "win" in terms of eliminating the fine and getting to keep control of his team. But he probably can run out the clock. He's 81 and looks like a corpse. He might have cancer and/or dementia - I don't know if either of those rumors have been confirmed, but from his tapes/interviews he sure sounds like someone whose mental capability is going.

I suspect that's the plan - time to resolve this in court is greater than Sterling's expected remaining lifespan.


I don't think that's going to work for the current Clips' players and/or coaching staff and definitely not for the NBA. First, we have the boycott rumors started by Roger Mason. Second, we've seen stuff before about the players' union and potentially asking for FA for the players if Sterling still owns the team. Last, I know some people plugged into the Marquette rumor mill and I guess there's rumors up there linking Doc to the Bucks and some of their new investors/ownership group. I could totally see Doc excusing himself from the situation if it looks like it's going to drag on. And quite frankly, I don't think the NBA wants to drag this on; they want it gone and forgotten about ASAP. It's probably already better for them the Clips are now out of the playoffs (oh hey, we can totally tie this into the reffing conspiracy for game 5!). While it's a great individual moment for Silver, having this constantly in the news is bad for the NBA and the sale price for the Clips (and thus, bad for the other owners).
   1544. AROM Posted: May 16, 2014 at 11:22 AM (#4708101)
Second, we've seen stuff before about the players' union and potentially asking for FA for the players if Sterling still owns the team.


I think the obvious solution is to have all their players put on Laker uniforms. Doc too - Lakers need a coach. They wouldn't even have to play in a new arena.
   1545. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 16, 2014 at 11:44 AM (#4708118)
All Sterling can really try to do is challenge the NBA Constitution's legality itself, as well as all the stuff he's signed over the years agreeing with those terms (plus the implied agreement that comes with participating as an owner for 30 years). I don't think he stands a chance in hell of this going anywhere.
I agree, though I do think he sands a good chance of stretching it out for years, and if he does that he becomes an existential problem for the entire franchise. I thought he stood a slightly better chance before this past weekend, but the Anderson Cooper interview nailed that coffin shut pretty tightly insofar as getting any sort of peaceful settlement done.

I can see coaches resigning, I can see players demanding trades and/or sitting out. I can see Sterling suing them all. This is the sports fan's version of Scandal. So great.
   1546. AROM Posted: May 16, 2014 at 11:50 AM (#4708126)
Franchise trade! Clippers become Lakers. Most Lakers are free agents anyway. Those under contract (Nash, Kobe) will be given the option of retiring and keeping the money due to them.

Clippers fill the roster with players nobody else wants, challenge the all time loss record. They've been there before, it's the kind of team Don Sterling deserves.
   1547. andrewberg Posted: May 16, 2014 at 11:58 AM (#4708134)
Reading between the lines of Sterling's lawyer's letter, it sounds like he's going to make the argument that he did not know that he was not supposed to say racist things. When he says his due process was violated by the league, he is either saying that he was not on notice of the expectation, that the league did not sufficiently investigate and prove its allegations, or that the punishment does not fit the crime. He seemingly admits that it was him speaking on the tape, so the proof is not an issue. I'm sure he will say the punishment is too severe, but since he is refusing ALL punishment, he seems to also be saying that there is essentially no violation. If it comes down to that, his argument basically has to be that the NBA bylaws don't say that it is against the rules to say racist things and that it was never clear to him that such was the expectation. Good luck with that.
   1548. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 16, 2014 at 12:04 PM (#4708139)
Reading between the lines of Sterling's lawyer's letter, it sounds like he's going to make the argument that he did not know that he was not supposed to say racist things.

Fair enough, since he's been saying racist things for decades with no sanctions. This is the hard part of punishing someone after one particular example of an extended pattern of offenses.
   1549. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 16, 2014 at 12:15 PM (#4708155)
The letter says Sterling did nothing wrong. Well, in the Anderson Cooper interview he "apologizes" for the mistakes he made...

Maybe he hired the lawyer after the interview. Either way, even if the lawyer had a set strategy, good luck keeping Sterling on point.
   1550. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 16, 2014 at 01:14 PM (#4708204)
"God came in a dream [and] talked to me, and he gave me that name. I was like, 'You know what, God? That is a funny name and I might need to run with it,' and ever since then, I've been calling myself 'Swaggy P.' It's a household name now."
   1551. smileyy Posted: May 16, 2014 at 01:32 PM (#4708218)
Fair enough, since he's been saying racist things for decades with no sanctions.


But never before was it demonstrably directly about NBA customers as a whole as he did on the recording.
   1552. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 16, 2014 at 01:39 PM (#4708223)
Maybe I simply keep finding it, but why is there so much "Kerr betrayed Phil"/ "How dare he snub NYC" going on the radio. It's not like there's a shortage of basketball to talk about.
   1553. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 16, 2014 at 01:48 PM (#4708227)
"Kerr betrayed Phil" is such a hacky story line. The Warriors job is a better job for him for a number of reasons and the Knicks were only in the running because of Kerr's loyalty to Phil. It's weird that Dolan decided he could pay Jackson 60/5 to ruin the team but wouldn't commit to that 5th year for Kerr. I imagine if the contracts had been equal Kerr would be in New York right now wondering what the hell he'd gotten himself into...
   1554. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 16, 2014 at 01:58 PM (#4708234)
It's a story the same reason the preseason 37 win prediction is a story: lack of perspective and over-inflated view of themselves. The same thing happened when LBJ was too scared to take his talents to play in the best basketball city in the world in the world's greatest arena.

That's not to say all Knicks' fans or the NY media or the Knicks or, quite frankly, any rational person actually thinks that. It's just an obvious, lazy, predictable storyline. For weeks, every story was how Kerr to the Knicks was a done deal and blah blah blah. It's an attempt to appeal to the lower reaches of fandom, which happen to be the most vocal.
   1555. Jimmy P Posted: May 16, 2014 at 02:18 PM (#4708255)
It's a story the same reason the preseason 37 win prediction is a story: lack of perspective and over-inflated view of themselves. The same thing happened when LBJ was too scared to take his talents to play in the best basketball city in the world in the world's greatest arena.

Olbermann said this same thing. The Knicks and most of their fans have this weird view that they are the most important franchise in the NBA. Even though most of the hardcore NBA fanbase either a) wasn't alive when they last won a title or b) was in preschool. For the current players, the Knicks have been a joke and a laughingstock. Not for most of their careers, for most of the LIVES. That fanbase still thinks that the "NBA needs the Knicks to be good" is totally out of reality with what's actually happened. Unfortunately for them, Jim Dolan seems to be the most deluded person.
   1556. AROM Posted: May 16, 2014 at 02:22 PM (#4708260)
Olbermann said this same thing. The Knicks and most of their fans have this weird view that they are the most important franchise in the NBA. Even though most of the hardcore NBA fanbase either a) wasn't alive when they last won a title or b) was in preschool. For the current players, the Knicks have been a joke and a laughingstock. Not for most of their careers, for most of the LIVES. That fanbase still thinks that the "NBA needs the Knicks to be good" is totally out of reality with what's actually happened. Unfortunately for them, Jim Dolan seems to be the most deluded person.


Amen to that.

NBA needs the Knicks to be great like the NFL needs a team in Los Angeles.
   1557. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 16, 2014 at 02:43 PM (#4708280)
Tom - Yeah, Blazers seem like a big rival to me mainly cuz they were the first team I hated. Jazz lost to them back to back years in 1991 and 1992, which I'm pretty sure were the first postseasons I paid close attention to. Then they beat the Jazz again back to back in 1999 and 2000 - which pretty much put the finishing touches on Stockton/Malone's title hopes - so the rivalry was cemented in my mind. Stockton/Malone actually faced Portland six times in the playoffs, which was more than any other team. Their win in 1988 was a little before my time and for some reason I barely remember their first round win in 1996, so all that's stuck in my mind are the losses.

And the Ostertag nostalia pic was awesome! :-) Yeah, we need Wiggins (or Parker. I'm not choosey)


The first two I was definitely too young to remember (4 and 5), but the only thing I can figure for the latter two series is that I was also really into the Knicks at that point, so the Jazz losing to the Blazers didn't hurt as much.
   1558. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 16, 2014 at 02:47 PM (#4708284)
See now, I think that's a bit too close to knocking down a strawman. Sure, there's probably people out there that think that. But there's also people out there who think the earth is flat, or Bush did 9/11, or Rondo is better than Westbrook. It's just not worth the wasted breath arguing with those folks. That's why the 2nd half of my post is important and only quoting the first half almost takes it out of context.
   1559. Kurt Posted: May 16, 2014 at 02:49 PM (#4708287)
It's weird that Dolan decided he could pay Jackson 60/5 to ruin the team


Wait, is that a typo or an editorial comment?
   1560. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 16, 2014 at 02:54 PM (#4708291)
Why can't it be both?
   1561. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 16, 2014 at 02:56 PM (#4708293)
Cause it can't get more ruined that it already is?
   1562. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 16, 2014 at 02:56 PM (#4708295)
Wait, is that a typo or an editorial comment?

A Freudian typo!

Just listened to Kerr's interview with Tom Tolbert and he says all the right things about getting more ball movement, improving the spacing and getting Bogut and Lee involved more with passing the ball around. No more Bench Mob, no more isolations...Curry might even find himself getting open looks instead of having to shoot his threes off the dribble.
   1563. Publius Publicola Posted: May 16, 2014 at 03:13 PM (#4708317)
Olbermann said this same thing. The Knicks and most of their fans have this weird view that they are the most important franchise in the NBA. Even though most of the hardcore NBA fanbase either a) wasn't alive when they last won a title or b) was in preschool.


It's even weirder than that. Even when they did happen to win, which seems like ages ago, they were vastly overrated. Newsweek dubbed them "Greatest Team Ever" in the middle of the '69-70 season, before they had won anything at all, based on an 18 game winning streak. They had no historically great players or historically great records or anything else that was special about them.

But talk to Knicks fans and they look up on that period like the modern day Iranians look upon the days of Darius the Great.

Another thing. Harvey Araton is perhaps the media's biggest criminal in this regard. His books are so awfully biased towards the Big Apple, they should be read with a barf bag close at hand.

   1564. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 16, 2014 at 03:19 PM (#4708326)
Now, the '72-'73 Knicks team is another matter, since the roster included one of the historically great names from NBA history in Harthorne Nathaniel Wingo.
   1565. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: May 16, 2014 at 03:29 PM (#4708340)
The playgrounds of New York City are seen as one of the historical centers of basketball genius in our country. That said, I'm a Knicks fan and I don't pretend to view this franchise as anything but a train wreck. I was in high school during the great Riley years and that was an exciting time, probably one of the best times to be a New York City sports fan. The city loves basketball.
   1566. Publius Publicola Posted: May 16, 2014 at 03:29 PM (#4708341)
LOL. It was Nathaniel Hawthorne Wingo, goose.
   1567. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 16, 2014 at 03:35 PM (#4708346)
Actually, both Basketball Reference & Wikipedia have it the way I do. (And no, I didn't check with them first. His name has stuck with me for some 40 years, for obvious reasons, ever since I encountered it in various Sporting News writeups as a kid.)

"Harthorne Nathaniel Wingo" yields 3,900 Google hits.

"Nathaniel Hawthorne Wingo" ... 3.
   1568. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: May 16, 2014 at 03:38 PM (#4708352)

But speaking of the Sterling stuff, this piece on Kevin Johnson is just...yeesh.
Yuck.
   1569. Publius Publicola Posted: May 16, 2014 at 03:41 PM (#4708356)
he playgrounds of New York City are seen as one of the historical centers of basketball genius in our country.


How many historically great NBA players emerged from those playgrounds?

Russell? Nope, he's from Oakland.
Wilt? Nope. He's from Philly.
MJ? Wilmington, NC
Magic? E. Lansing Mich.
Bird? Indy
Oscar? Indy
Lebron? Akron OH

This is sort of like Ali self-labeling himself "the greatest". You don't get to rate yourself anything. That is necessarily done by others, so the historical record doesn't get distorted by bias.
   1570. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 16, 2014 at 03:49 PM (#4708363)
Yeah -- that's the problem, of course. A lot of the really storied Rucker League guys never made it to the pros, or at least fall well short of the pro pantheon. No doubt I'm forgetting tons, but offhand I can think of only Nate Archibald & Connie Hawkins as pro superstars who came up from the NYC playgrounds. Julius Erving was from Long Island, though I know he made quite a name for himself in city play.
   1571. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 16, 2014 at 03:53 PM (#4708369)
Kareem?
   1572. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 16, 2014 at 03:57 PM (#4708373)
Coming from Power Memorial, definitely he belongs.
   1573. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: May 16, 2014 at 04:04 PM (#4708380)
Kareem, Julius Erving, Cousy, Connie Hawkins, Tiny...off the top of my head.
   1574. stanmvp48 Posted: May 16, 2014 at 04:05 PM (#4708382)
Billy Cunningham?
   1575. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 16, 2014 at 04:08 PM (#4708385)
They're better known as coaches, having been banned from the NBA during their playing days, but Larry Brown & Doug Moe both came from Brooklyn. Roger Brown, too.
   1576. Jimmy P Posted: May 16, 2014 at 04:51 PM (#4708422)
That's not to say all Knicks' fans or the NY media or the Knicks or, quite frankly, any rational person actually thinks that. It's just an obvious, lazy, predictable storyline. For weeks, every story was how Kerr to the Knicks was a done deal and blah blah blah. It's an attempt to appeal to the lower reaches of fandom, which happen to be the most vocal.

Agreed. Unfortunately, it seems the sane Knicks people have no voice at all.
   1577. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 16, 2014 at 04:54 PM (#4708423)
Chris Mullin, of Brooklyn and St. John's, and he's the single most New York player I can think of. Bernard King was also from Brooklyn. Lenny Wilkens as well. Bob Cousy was from Queens. Dolph Schayes came out of the Bronx. Carmelo Anthony.
   1578. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: May 16, 2014 at 04:55 PM (#4708425)

How many historically great NBA players emerged from those playgrounds?

Russell? Nope, he's from Oakland.
Wilt? Nope. He's from Philly.
MJ? Wilmington, NC
Magic? E. Lansing Mich.
Bird? Indy
Oscar? Indy
Lebron? Akron OH


kevin leaving Kareem off this list is so beautifully kevin.
   1579. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 16, 2014 at 05:07 PM (#4708432)
Kareem was great, but he's no Rajon Rondo.
   1580. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: May 16, 2014 at 05:13 PM (#4708436)
The all Oakland team is pretty good:

G: Gary Payton
G: Jason Kidd
SF: Paul Pierce
PF: ? Paul Silas/Anthony Davis
C: Bill Russell

Bench: Damien Lillard, Brian Shaw, Drew Gooden, the Barrys
   1581. andrewberg Posted: May 16, 2014 at 05:22 PM (#4708441)
The all-Seattle team is very guard heavy:

PG- Jason Terry
SG- Jamal Crawford
SF- Brandon Roy
PF- Marvin Williams
C- James Edwards

Bench- Nate Robinson, Doug Christie, Martell Webster, Isaiah Thomas, Spencer Hawes
   1582. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 16, 2014 at 05:43 PM (#4708449)
Uh, Anthony Davis goes on the Chicago team.

PG - Isiah Thomas
SG - Wade
SF - Antoine Walker
PF - Anthony Davis
C - Red Kerr

Bench - DRose, Doc Rivers, Tim Hardaway, Mo Cheeks, Terry Cummings, Tony Allen, Nick Anderson, Patrick Beverly, Kendall Gill, Hersey Hawkins, Juwan Howard, Eddie Johnson, Cazzie Russell. Next year you can add Jabari Parker, plus you've got a few more top freshman from Chicago that likely make the pros in the near future.

Add in suburbs, you get guys like Mikan, Jack Sikma, Quentin Richardson, Dave Corzine, Kevin Duckworth, Michael Finley, Jeff Hornacek, Dan Issel, Corey Maggette, Shawn Marion.
   1583. andrewberg Posted: May 16, 2014 at 05:48 PM (#4708453)
That Oakland team is dicey. Other than Davis, I think Russell is questionable since he was born in Louisiana and only moved west later, but I think he was young enough that it's legit.
   1584. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: May 16, 2014 at 05:58 PM (#4708461)
Whoops, autocorrect got me. I meant Antonio Davis, not Anthony. And come on, Russell counts. His family moved to Oakland when he was 8.
   1585. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 16, 2014 at 06:11 PM (#4708469)
I should steal KG for Chicago, not like there's gonna be a Greenville team.
   1586. andrewberg Posted: May 16, 2014 at 06:45 PM (#4708490)

Whoops, autocorrect got me. I meant Antonio Davis, not Anthony. And come on, Russell counts. His family moved to Oakland when he was 8.


That's even younger than I thought. I retract my questioning, but if rural Louisiana claimed him, he might have to split time.
   1587. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: May 16, 2014 at 06:56 PM (#4708493)
The unincorporated (so ... a few dozen residents? maybe 100 or so, tops?) Arkansas Delta community of Rohwer can field a pretty decent frontline -- Major Jones, Caldwell Jones & Wilbert Jones, with Charles Jones coming off the bench. All brothers, of course.

Not sure who the hell would play guard. I guess they could find a couple of short guys somewhere.

(The Joneses may've actually been from McGehee, which has around 10,000 residents, but their high school was in Rohwer. That might've been because of segregation; I have no idea.)
   1588. Publius Publicola Posted: May 16, 2014 at 07:25 PM (#4708502)
Yeah, just brain-farted on Kareem.

Really though. The midwest can make at least as good a claim as NY. High school basketball in Indiana is at least as big there as football is to Texas or Pennslyvania. Some tremendous players came from Indy.
   1589. Publius Publicola Posted: May 16, 2014 at 07:29 PM (#4708503)
Uh, Anthony Davis goes on the Chicago team.


What about Arthur Agee and William Gates?
   1590. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: May 16, 2014 at 07:30 PM (#4708504)


That's even younger than I thought. I retract my questioning, but if rural Louisiana claimed him, he might have to split time.
We'll trade them J.R. Rider, a pair of MC Hammer's pants and the rights to a Gertrude Stein quote of their choosing for his kindergarten years.
   1591. smileyy Posted: May 16, 2014 at 08:00 PM (#4708512)
The midwest can make at least as good a claim as NY[C]


One of those things is not like the other. I think you may have just proved NYCs point.
   1592. Publius Publicola Posted: May 16, 2014 at 08:09 PM (#4708517)
One of those things is not like the other. I think you may have just proved NYCs point.


Thank you for:

A) editing my quote so it says something the original didn't say

and

B) deliberately truncating the full post so the context has been lost.

Nice job.
   1593. smileyy Posted: May 16, 2014 at 08:16 PM (#4708521)
The playgrounds of New York City are seen as one of the historical centers of basketball genius in our country.



How many historically great NBA players emerged from those playgrounds?



kevin leaving Kareem off this list is so beautifully kevin.



Yeah, just brain-farted on Kareem.


You're talking exactly about "The playgrounds of New York City".

(Why am I bothering?)
   1594. smileyy Posted: May 16, 2014 at 08:19 PM (#4708525)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2065205-andrew-wiggins-doesnt-need-the-nba-combine-to-show-off-his-hops?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national2

@chadfordinsider:

The picture of Andrew Wiggins vert jump floating around? His agent, Bill Duffy, told me it's a 44 inch vert.


His agent also said Wiggins measured at 6'13", with a 44' wingspan.
   1595. Publius Publicola Posted: May 16, 2014 at 08:25 PM (#4708529)
You're talking exactly about "The playgrounds of New York City".


In 1960, there were 3 million more NYers than lived in the entire state of Indiana.

The question should be "Why am I bothering"?
   1596. Spivey Posted: May 16, 2014 at 08:55 PM (#4708541)
Looks like Ibaka is likely to miss the rest of the playoffs. That really hurts OKC, I think. I have to say the Spurs are favorites at this point.
   1597. Publius Publicola Posted: May 16, 2014 at 09:16 PM (#4708547)
Too bad about Ibaka. Spurs were favorites before but now have to be prohibitive favorites.

Another win for Duncan will kind of remove the last doubt that he's inner circle, no?
   1598. theboyqueen Posted: May 16, 2014 at 09:32 PM (#4708552)
What? He's nearly universally regarded as the greatest power forward ever. Who are you talking about?
   1599. JJ1986 Posted: May 16, 2014 at 09:39 PM (#4708554)
Tim Duncan is no Kevin McHale.
   1600. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 16, 2014 at 09:55 PM (#4708560)
What do you expect? He didn't come from the midwest.
Page 16 of 24 pages ‹ First  < 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Don Malcolm
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogHoward: David Ortiz shaping up to become first steroid era Teflon slugger
(48 - 11:23am, Jul 30)
Last: Ned Garvin: Male Prostitute

NewsblogSOE: Minor League Manhood - A first-hand account of masculine sports culture run amok.
(47 - 11:22am, Jul 30)
Last: PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth)

Newsblog‘Caucasians’ T-shirt mocking Cleveland Indians becomes hot seller on reserves
(27 - 11:19am, Jul 30)
Last: GregD

NewsblogDodgers, Cardinals lead race for top trade deadline pitchers Lester, Price - CBSSports.com
(3 - 11:16am, Jul 30)
Last: Davo Dozier

NewsblogOTP - July 2014: Republicans Lose To Democrats For Sixth Straight Year In Congressional Baseball Game
(3610 - 11:16am, Jul 30)
Last: You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR)

NewsblogABC News: ‘Capital Games’: How Congress Saved the Baseball Hall of Fame
(58 - 11:14am, Jul 30)
Last: Ray (RDP)

NewsblogAn Idiot in Exile
(7 - 10:46am, Jul 30)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogESPN: Twins Sign "Out Of Nowhere" Prospect
(38 - 10:45am, Jul 30)
Last: Davo Dozier

NewsblogMASN TV Contract Pits Selig vs Nationals vs Orioles
(27 - 10:42am, Jul 30)
Last: Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread July, 2014
(509 - 10:39am, Jul 30)
Last: Randy Jones

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-30-2014
(5 - 10:35am, Jul 30)
Last: Davo Dozier

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 7-29-2014
(63 - 8:33am, Jul 30)
Last: Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play

SABR - BBTF ChapterWho's going to SABR??
(103 - 8:00am, Jul 30)
Last: Mike Emeigh

NewsblogMelky Cabrera smashed a windshield with a homer
(15 - 5:02am, Jul 30)
Last: Bunny Vincennes

NewsblogFull Count » Tim Kurkjian on MFB: ‘I’m going to say that Jon Lester is not going to be traded’
(33 - 3:14am, Jul 30)
Last: ellsbury my heart at wounded knee

Page rendered in 0.4889 seconds
52 querie(s) executed