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Thursday, April 03, 2014

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2014

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about, which I forgot.

Have posts been building up inside you?

The District Attorney Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:26 PM | 2387 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   1701. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:21 PM (#4710421)
14. Phoenix
13. Minnesota
12. Orlando
11. Denver
10. Philadelphia
9. Charlotte
8. Sacramento
7. Los Angeles Lakers
6. Boston
5. Utah
4. Orlando
   1702. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:22 PM (#4710422)
Clear proof that the NBA is rigging the lottery due to its need to create a powerhouse Cavs team.

Bummed Jazz are outside of the top 4, but I'd be happy with Vonleh.
   1703. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:25 PM (#4710424)
I swear to god, Cleveland must've struck some kind of deal with the league in the summer of 2010.
   1704. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:26 PM (#4710425)
3. Philly
2. Milwaulkee
1. Cleveland

SERIOUSLY?
   1705. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:26 PM (#4710426)
If your a top talent you have to not like any of the possible teams that pick top 3
   1706. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:28 PM (#4710431)
So the cavs take embiid and he gets hurt right away. Thats how i see this ending.
   1707. jmurph Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:30 PM (#4710434)
Well if you're someone who gets all exercised about tanking this is a nice result, since Cleveland actually tried to be good this season.

Unfortunately I don't care about tanking, so I'm left with extreme distaste for Gilbert, and disappointment that Boston struck out.
   1708. JJ1986 Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:31 PM (#4710436)
Cavs will probably take Randle.
   1709. cmd600 Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:31 PM (#4710438)
Yeah that was a silly promise to make really. But hey, at least his promise about the Cavs winning a title before LeBron is still looking good, right?!


It bought him some fan support and sold some tickets. He's more concerned about that than winning games.

I'm genuinely embarrassed about winning the lottery again, and am curious as to how much they plan on screwing this up.

since Cleveland actually tried to be good this season


I guess. The level of dysfunction was still just as high as any tanking team out there though.
   1710. rr Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:33 PM (#4710439)
Cleveland is obviously overdue for a parade for any of its three franchises, but it is hard to get happy about Dan Gilbert's team getting the #1 pick AGAIN. I would much rather it had been Milwaukee or Philadelphia among the teams that will be picking 1-3.
   1711. Publius Publicola Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:36 PM (#4710441)
is hard to get happy about Dan Gilbert's team getting the #1 pick AGAIN.


RR channels Simmons.
   1712. rr Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:37 PM (#4710442)
jmurph-

Lakers and Celtics both struck out, so the only conspiracy darts thrown will be LeDecision related.
   1713. Publius Publicola Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:39 PM (#4710445)
The one thing I'm sure of is that the draft isn't going to go according to the pundits. Some of the top guys are going to tumble down. This is a tough draft to figure. There's a ton of wild cards in there.
   1714. rr Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:39 PM (#4710446)
1711--

Nah. I think a lot of people, other than Cavs' fans of course, are going to be a little grouchy about it. There will be some "At least it wasn't the Lakers or the Celtics" stuff, but I don't think Gilbert has many fans.
   1715. AROM Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:42 PM (#4710447)
This result does not make me happy. Obviously I'd have liked to see Lakers at 1, but I'd rather see the Celtics get the pick than Cleveland once again.
   1716. Juilin Sandar to Conkling Speedwell (Arjun) Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:45 PM (#4710450)
So the cavs take embiid and he gets hurt right away. Thats how i see this ending.

If they take Embiid (or Randle or Vonleh or some other big man), they could conceivably throw out a lineup of top-five draft selections from the last four years that would be, even if Embiid totally pans out, incredibly mediocre (Irving, Waiters, Bennett, Thompson, Embiid).

Totally expecting the Cavs to pick someone totally random (tbh, half expecting #1708 to come true) and have them flop, though.
   1717. jmurph Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:46 PM (#4710453)
RR: I was still celebrating the Lakers slipping (yes, I'm that petty) and missed the Celtics being called. That was a bummer when I rewound to see what I missed.
   1718. jmurph Posted: May 20, 2014 at 08:47 PM (#4710455)
I'm so excited to see who overpays Stephenson this summer.
   1719. rr Posted: May 20, 2014 at 09:06 PM (#4710464)
I will be surprised if Cleveland does not take Wiggins. He is the closest thing to James, ostensibly, in the draft, and I don't think that they can afford to try to out-think everybody again. I think Milwaukee will take Parker and Philadelphia will take Exum or Embiid.
   1720. rr Posted: May 20, 2014 at 09:08 PM (#4710466)
I was still celebrating the Lakers slipping (yes, I'm that petty)


--

I only really worry about the Celtics when the Lakers and the Celtics are both good. Rooting against them now is like being happy that your abrasive neighbor's house has termites while your own house is burning to the ground.
   1721. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: May 20, 2014 at 09:10 PM (#4710467)
I'm thinking it will go Embiid (Cavs), Parker (Bucks), Wiggins (76ers), Exum (Magic), Vonleh (Jazz).
   1722. Squash Posted: May 20, 2014 at 09:40 PM (#4710487)
I like that Kevin Love wants to be a Warrior, but I don't like that it's impossible Kevin Love will be a Warrior. Still, this might be the first time in my life a superstar wanted to head to GSW. That is weird.

The list of prominent guys who have wanted to be Warriors in recent history is pretty weird. By my recollection it's Danny Fortson, Corey Maggette, and David Lee. The common thread of superficial stats vs. actual value says an awful lot about where the team has been over the last 20 or so years.
   1723. RollingWave Posted: May 20, 2014 at 09:57 PM (#4710502)
No no, the most Cav thing would be them picking another PG who fights with Irving ;)

Seriously though, for the NBA satire community this lottery played out perrrrfectly.

   1724. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 20, 2014 at 10:12 PM (#4710512)
The list of prominent guys who have wanted to be Warriors in recent history is pretty weird. By my recollection it's Danny Fortson, Corey Maggette, and David Lee.

Yeah, those are pretty much their only significant free-agent signings since Terry Teagle.
   1725. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: May 20, 2014 at 10:25 PM (#4710519)
Bucks fan here. From what I'm reading from the local guys, they're going to take either Wiggins or Embiid. I haven't seen anyone close to the team mention Jabari.
   1726. Booey Posted: May 20, 2014 at 10:26 PM (#4710520)
To the karma gods: We get it - the Cavs got screwed by The Decision. Let it go already and give someone else a chance. Simmons pretty much mirrored my thoughts.

Also sad to see the Jazz drop to 5th. Since I haven't been following college ball, I don't really know anything about anyone other than Embiid, Wiggins, and Parker. Who might be around at 5 that could possibly have star potential?
   1727. Booey Posted: May 20, 2014 at 10:33 PM (#4710525)
Who would be good NBA comps (best case and most likely scenario's) for Dante Exum and Noah Vonleh?
   1728. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 20, 2014 at 11:19 PM (#4710547)
The best case comp for Exum: Afernee Hardaway
The best case comp for Vonleh: Jamal Mashburn

So, not bad.
   1729. RollingWave Posted: May 20, 2014 at 11:26 PM (#4710550)
Bucks fan here. From what I'm reading from the local guys, they're going to take either Wiggins or Embiid. I haven't seen anyone close to the team mention Jabari.


Between Wiggins / Sanders / Giannis / Henson, that is a lot of length and athleticism. not sure if it's good, but there will be a lot of fun plays.
   1730. AROM Posted: May 20, 2014 at 11:29 PM (#4710551)
Lakers might be able to end up with Smart or Randle. Probably not enough to trade for Love. They better hope he makes it to free agency.
   1731. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: May 20, 2014 at 11:31 PM (#4710553)
The Vonleh comp I've seen a lot is Bosh.
   1732. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: May 20, 2014 at 11:45 PM (#4710555)
In a weird way, it's probably a good thing for the Cavs that they whiffed as badly as they did on the first pick in the draft last year. If they were better, they don't get the first pick in this loaded draft.

LeBron had a weird game. He was awful in the first quarter, especially defensively, and only OK in the second. He was great in the second and especially in the fourth quarter as he took over the game late. It's just unexpected for him to struggle at all. It was also interesting to see Spoelstra have LeBron guard Hill/Watson instead of putting him on Lance or PG. It's almost as if he was hiding LeBron on defense.

Bosh needs to be better if Miami is going to win this series. He just has not played well against the Pacers.

Indiana's bench is really bad especially Scola.

Lance Stephenson was amazing in the third quarter.

Does Hibbert not have a post-game? He was being guarded by Haslem and Bosh, guys he should be able to score on. He is just so much bigger than those guys. The only guy who I think might be able to guard him there is Birdman.
   1733. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: May 20, 2014 at 11:55 PM (#4710560)
It was also interesting to see Spoelstra have LeBron guard Hill/Watson instead of putting him on Lance or PG. It's almost as if he was hiding LeBron on defense.

As I understand it, the idea was to put LeBron on less important/dangerous offensive players so he can roam on defense and be a disruptive help defender. Which, based on the eye test/blocks+steals seems to have worked.
   1734. cmd600 Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:51 AM (#4710572)
In a weird way, it's probably a good thing for the Cavs that they whiffed as badly as they did on the first pick in the draft last year. If they were better, they don't get the first pick in this loaded draft.


The Cavs had less than a 2% chance of getting the #1 pick.


As I understand it, the idea was to put LeBron on less important/dangerous offensive players so he can roam on defense and be a disruptive help defender. Which, based on the eye test/blocks+steals seems to have worked.


This was a very successful strategy back in the Lebron-Cavalier days. Lebron played a free safety type position on defense, looking to anticipate passes and freedom to leave his man to contest shots.
   1735. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:41 AM (#4710579)
The Cavs had less than a 2% chance of getting the #1 pick.

Obviously, I'm not saying that the Cavs planned on getting this year's first overall when they picked first last year.
   1736. steagles Posted: May 21, 2014 at 06:46 AM (#4710591)
is there any chance utah could make derrick favors available if it nets them jabari parker? i know they want him, but do they want him badly to do that?
Obviously, I'm not saying that the Cavs planned on getting this year's first overall when they picked first last year.
if that is actually something they were planning, they probably should have drafted nerlens noel instead of bennett.

also, #### dan gilbert.

and putting aside the fact that if the cavs drafted better they wouldn't have been in the lottery to begin with, if they actually had drafted better since getting kyrie, they could have this lineup right now:
kyre irving (#1 2011)
victor oladipo (#1 2013 instead of anthony bennett)
kawhi leonard (#4 2011 instead of tristian thompson)
terrence jones (#17 2012 instead of tyler zeller)
andre drummond (#4 2012 instead of dion waiters)


   1737. Booey Posted: May 21, 2014 at 10:02 AM (#4710635)
is there any chance utah could make derrick favors available if it nets them jabari parker? i know they want him, but do they want him badly to do that?


If the Sixers draft Parker and you were their GM, who would you be willing to take from the Jazz in exchange? Favors and ?
   1738. Quaker Posted: May 21, 2014 at 10:26 AM (#4710653)
If the Jazz get Jabari I'd think it would be #5 + someone like Kanter. I dont think they'd move Favors for anyone.
   1739. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 21, 2014 at 10:47 AM (#4710670)
Put me in the camp of people who believe Embiid will go first. I'm not sure that Wiggins or Parker disappointed anyone, per se, but they didn't completely blow everyone away. Team rarely pass on guys like Embiid for guys like Wiggins/Parker. I'll be surprised if the Cavs don't take Embiid (save some sort of serious injury news about his back comes out, and I mean really serious like he's missing vertebrae or something). Wiggins second and Parker third also seem pretty likely to me at this point (even though I could see it going the other way too). After that, who knows.

EDIT: Actually, Exum to the Magic seems like a safe bet too.
   1740. steagles Posted: May 21, 2014 at 10:50 AM (#4710674)
If the Jazz get Jabari I'd think it would be #5 + someone like Kanter. I dont think they'd move Favors for anyone.
i think i'd feel the same way if i were the jazz, but if i'm the sixers, kanter isn't good enough to close that deal. this is gonna be his 4th year, and he hasn't done anything yet that makes me think he'll be more than just a guy. same thing for heyward. burke and burks are pretty underwhelming, too. i'm a big fan of gobert and evans, but they're not moving the needle in this situation.
If the Sixers draft Parker and you were their GM, who would you be willing to take from the Jazz in exchange? Favors and ?

i would hope for this:
to PHI: #5, favors
to UTA: #3
favors is good, but he's a fringe top-50 guy right now, and if they think parker is gonna have a lebron/durant type peak, that might be worth it, from a basketball perspective. plus, that'll probably make them worse next year, so they'll be able to add another high lottery pick to their burke/parker/kanter core.


but i'd probably be willing to give up a bit more. favors would make thaddeus young kind of redundant and utah would have an opening at PF, so that swap might make sense. and the sixers do have some more ammunition in the draft (picks #10, 32, 38, 47, 52 and 54) that they could dangle. plus there's cap room that they could rent out to get a pick, a la anthony randolph to MIN in the carmelo deal.


it'd be pretty sweet if the sixers could come out of draft night with MCW/smart/anderson/favors/noel
   1741. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 10:59 AM (#4710685)
I think Randle will be good, so I'm really hoping this Vonleh hype continues and Randle slips to Boston at 6. I think Smart is going to be terrible so I'm hoping he's not the pick.

But I'm guessing Boston will try to trade back, since they're out of the top 3. I wonder if anyone will be looking to get into the mid-late lottery, though.
   1742. theboyqueen Posted: May 21, 2014 at 11:10 AM (#4710692)

favors is good, but he's a fringe top-50 guy right now, and if they think parker is gonna have a lebron/durant type peak, that might be worth it, from a basketball perspective.


You think?
   1743. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: May 21, 2014 at 11:40 AM (#4710717)

But I'm guessing Boston will try to trade back, since they're out of the top 3.


I thought the consensus was there were six blue-chip players in this draft?
   1744. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 11:46 AM (#4710722)
I thought the consensus was there were six blue-chip players in this draft?


I don't get the sense that anyone is particularly confident after Embiid-Wiggins-Parker, in some order. Exum appears to be #4, but no one knows a great deal about him.
   1745. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 21, 2014 at 11:53 AM (#4710727)
Right. For example, some people like Randle and Smart; others hate them. And so on.

There seems to be a consensus drop off after the top 3; the draft is deeper, so guys going 4-20ish or so may not have a ton of separation. I'm not sure if that's the current narrative; regardless, it's bound to change. A guy like McGary might not be a first rounder because of his injury and/or the pot thing, but he would have been in the lottery last year.
   1746. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 21, 2014 at 11:57 AM (#4710731)

Also sad to see the Jazz drop to 5th. Since I haven't been following college ball, I don't really know anything about anyone other than Embiid, Wiggins, and Parker. Who might be around at 5 that could possibly have star potential?


Doug McDermott will be a star in the sense that Adam Morrison was a star.

Marcus Smart I suppose was thought to have star potential at one point, but hurt his stock this year. He needs to learn to shoot though.

I've heard good things about Dario Saric.
   1747. Squash Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:02 PM (#4710738)
Embiid looks to me like a late 80s/early 90s player, which I mean as a compliment.
   1748. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4710741)
In skimming the mock drafts today, it actually seems like everyone is putting Exum 4th to Orlando. Lot more variance in the top 3 than I expected though, with a number of people even putting Parker there.

Obviously, no one really knows anything, and while it's fun to speculate, in about 7 or 8 different mocks I've looked at there's about 20 different players in the Bulls' 2 slots.
   1749. vagab0nd (no longer an outl13r) Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:09 PM (#4710744)
Doug McDermott will be a star in the sense that Adam Morrison was a star.


In Doug's defense, at the combine he weighed in 20 lbs heavier and had a 36.5" vert to Morrisons 30.5" vert. Height/Wingspan were similar.
   1750. King Mekong Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:10 PM (#4710745)
I could see PHI drafting Exum at 3 over Parker, Brett Brown coaches the Australian National Team and probably has some pretty good connections with Exum already.
   1751. Jimmy P Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:25 PM (#4710758)
Cleveland's going to blow this pick, right?

I'm curious which way they go. Their last two drafts haven't aligned with the consensus view on prospects.
   1752. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:28 PM (#4710759)
Lot of trade talk on the interwebs, but teams can't actually complete trades right now, can they? I'm assuming they can't be officially agreed to until after the Finals?
   1753. Spivey Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:37 PM (#4710764)
I don't think the first pick in this draft is "blowable". Now, the guy can bust - but if they draft Embiid or Wiggins (or even Parker) then they drafted a guy that pretty much everyone is super high on. I'd be shocked if they drafted someone else #1.

I'll be interested to see if they take Embiid. I think he's the clear #1 if you had no concerns about his health. But I can't help but be nervous about that, especially when there are some great other players available.
   1754. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:51 PM (#4710770)
In Doug's defense, at the combine he weighed in 20 lbs heavier and had a 36.5" vert to Morrisons 30.5" vert. Height/Wingspan were similar.

Also, McDermott has a far superior track record of making shots than Morrison, who was a scorer mischaracterized as a shooter. McDermott's superior skill level, as a shooter, makes it far less likely he will wash out. Barring injury, of course.
   1755. kpelton Posted: May 21, 2014 at 12:51 PM (#4710771)
Lot of trade talk on the interwebs, but teams can't actually complete trades right now, can they? I'm assuming they can't be officially agreed to until after the Finals?

No, you can trade as soon as you're eliminated, provided it only includes players whose contracts extend to 2014-15 or beyond. They're exceedingly rare, though. The last pre-Finals trade I can find is Jason Kapono for Reggie Evans in 2009.
   1756. andrewberg Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:01 PM (#4710775)
It appears Joerger is at odds with Grizzlies scouting director David Mincberg, as they share mutual “hate,” tweets Geoff Calkins of The Commercial Appeal.


If Joerger falls into the Wolves' lap, that will be a lucky outcome of the coaching carousel.

The more I think about it, the more I assume Cleveland will take Embiid. Wiggins and Irving would be a very interesting combo, but like others have said, the dominant two-way center is another breed altogether. Steagles alluded to their alternate reality drafts earlier, but it wouldn't even have to be that drastic. If they had just taken Oladipo instead of Bennett and Valanciunas over Waiters, their team would be potentially loaded.

My dream scenario now is that Cleveland makes itself think Lebron will come there if they have Kyrie and Love, so they trade the #1 pick for Love and the Wolves can kickstart the rebuild with Wiggins.

I was also thinking last night that Parker probably has the lowest ceiling of those top 3 guys, but he's also probably the best bet to keep a team in the playoffs for about 8 years. That would not be the worst fate for a team like Philadelphia if they build around MCW, Noel, and him.
   1757. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:02 PM (#4710776)
What Buffy said re: McDermott v Morrison

Presuming Chris Vernon is plugged in: Joerger wants out of MEM but not to quit, Pera wants him out but not to pay him...; they want to keep Hollinger but it remains to be seen if he'll stay

Exum/Oladipo would be an interesting tandem.

I think Wiggins goes #1.
   1758. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4710778)
All of this is boring. What will Danny Ferry do?
   1759. andrewberg Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:10 PM (#4710781)
Presuming Chris Vernon is plugged in: Joerger wants out of MEM but not to quit, Pera wants him out but not to pay him...; they want to keep Hollinger but it remains to be seen if he'll stay


New plan- Wolves hire Joerger, rearrange some contracts to lure Pau to play with Ricky, then wait til next offseason to prey on Marc's unhappiness with front office discord and reunite team Spain!
   1760. andrewberg Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:15 PM (#4710785)
Exum/Oladipo would be an interesting tandem.


Yes, and this seems like a sure thing to me. If someone from that glut of forwards (Harris, O'Quinn, Harkless, Nicholson) emerges to be a legitimate plus player, they have an interesting foundation. They might be able to add another asset that could become a building block if they play the Nelson and Afflalo cards well.
   1761. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:34 PM (#4710794)
Lakers interviewed Dunleavy for the HC gig? Huh.
   1762. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:36 PM (#4710795)
Lakers interviewed Dunleavy for the HC gig? Huh.

Mike Brown is also available.
   1763. Spivey Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:49 PM (#4710802)
Wade and LeBron really played awesome to close the 4th quarter last night.
   1764. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:49 PM (#4710804)
Since the Cavs have drafted so poorly in recent years and are trying to win now to convince Irving to stay, does anyone think they'll shop the pick? What do you think they could get for it? I have a few ideas but ultimately I don't know if they're realistic.

1. Magic trade (a) Vucevic and #4 for Sergey Karasev and #1 or (b) Afflalo and #4 for Jarret Jack and #1. If the Magic have one of the top 3 guys much higher on their draft board than anyone in the second tier, this makes sense for them. If they really love Exum, it doesn't. Jarret Jack's contract looks very bad after this past season (not that it ever looked good), so the Cavs may try to unload it in any deal.

2. Raptors trade DeRozan and #20 for Jack, #1 and #33. How badly do the Raptors want Wiggins? Would they trade DeRozan on the heels of his breakout year? Masai Ujiri does not seem to be risk-averse.

3. Wolves trade Pekovic, Shabazz and #13 for Varejao, Jack and #1. Minnesota could then have a lineup of Rubio, Martin, Wiggins, Love, and Dieng, which seems too good to be true. The Cavs need offense at the center spot as long as Tristan Thompson is the 4, and I think there's good talent left at #13 in this draft, especially on the wings. I don't think Cavs fans would like it though, unless the Cavs use the extra cap room to make a splash in free agency (Lance Stephenson perhaps?).

   1765. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:51 PM (#4710809)
As the World's Worst Scout (I thought Wayne Simien would be finishing up his 10th NBA season by now), I'd take Smart over McDermott. If McDermott has trouble scoring against NBA defense (a legitimate concern), he's not worth rostering. Smart is younger and contributes in other ways.
   1766. AROM Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:53 PM (#4710811)
If picking between Julius Randle and Noah Vonleh, I'd probably pick V.

Reasons to pick Julius:
1. Slightly better stats, WS48 (.191 to .182) though KY played a tougher schedule. This isn't a very meaningful difference though.
2. Carried a bigger scoring load
3. Better passing (1.4 to 0.6 assists, this is just a case of bad > awful)


Reasons to pick Noah:
1. Bigger - 1/2 inch taller but 4 inches greater wingspan
2. Hands - Biggest hands among those measured for draft express, Julius is on the small side
3. Vertical jump - Max vert of 37 vs 35.5 for J
4. Blocked shots, pretty much a result of #1 and #3. Vonleh can add rim protection, Randle does not.
5. 3 point shooting - shot .485 last year, though it was only 16 made in 33 attempts.
6. Fewer turnovers

Speed is about equal, as measured by both sprint and agility measurements. Rebounding is even, on a per minute basis.

If you want a PF who can defend, stretch the floor, and are OK with him not being a major part of the offense, you want Vonleh. If you want a PF to be a post scorer, you want Randle. It just seems most teams in the NBA are looking for the former.
   1767. andrewberg Posted: May 21, 2014 at 01:59 PM (#4710818)
3. Wolves trade Pekovic, Shabazz and #13 for Varejao, Jack and #1. Minnesota could then have a lineup of Rubio, Martin, Wiggins, Love, and Dieng, which seems too good to be true.


Unrealistically good for Minnesota. That's the type of trade that would have happened in last year's draft, not one as strong at the top as this one.
   1768. Booey Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:04 PM (#4710823)
Is Vonleh strictly a PF, or is he quick enough to play SF in the NBA? IOW, if the Jazz drafted him, could it possibly work to have a Burke/Hayward/Vonleh/Kanter/Favors starting lineup, or would they have to move Kanter and use Vonleh in his place?
   1769. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:04 PM (#4710824)
Thanks KP for 1755, I did not know that.

   1770. steagles Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:06 PM (#4710827)
Is Vonleh strictly a PF, or is he quick enough to play SF in the NBA? IOW, if the Jazz drafted him, could it possibly work to have a Burke/Hayward/Vonleh/Kanter/Favors starting lineup, or would they have to move Kanter and use Vonleh in his place?
that does not seem like a good idea.

i do think vonleh could eat minutes at center, though. he seems like he has just enough length, wingspan and bulk to be able to hold his own against non-elite centers on defense.
   1771. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:25 PM (#4710842)
If they had just taken Oladipo instead of Bennett


I don't want to defend Cleveland too much (or really at all), but the guy people are hammering them for not taking last year is a now 22 year old who just put up a below average season and can't really shoot. I'm not saying he won't end up being a very good player, I'm just saying it's not yet clear they passed on much of anything.

Granted, Bennett is likely still terrible, so this doesn't help their cause too much.

Man, that draft was terrible.
   1772. steagles Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:28 PM (#4710846)
I don't want to defend Cleveland too much (or really at all), but the guy people are hammering them for not taking last year is a now 22 year old who just put up a below average season and can't really shoot. I'm not saying he won't end up being a very good player, I'm just saying it's not yet clear they passed on much of anything.

Granted, Bennett is likely still terrible, so this doesn't help their cause too much.

Man, that draft was terrible.
you're gonna need to be more specific. that description applies to just about everyone from last year's draft.
   1773. Jimmy P Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:29 PM (#4710848)
Granted, Bennett is likely still terrible, so this doesn't help their cause too much.


But you can at least see Oladipo contributing something. Even if he's an energy guy off the bench. Bennett didn't even look like he belonged in the NBA last year.

What would the story be if New York got the #1 pick 3 out of 4 years?

I also wish Lebron would release a statement that said, "It's great the Cavs got the #1 pick again. That they still are getting the #1 pick years after I left should be reason enough of WHY I'M NOT GOING THERE."
   1774. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:29 PM (#4710849)
Well yeah, your guy fits the bill too but we were talking about Oladipo!
   1775. smileyy Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:33 PM (#4710856)
If McDermott has trouble scoring against NBA defense (a legitimate concern), he's not worth rostering. Smart is younger and contributes in other ways.


If J.J. Redick can find a home in the league, so can Doug McD. Okok, different skillsets and maybe Redick can handle the ball and defend guards adequately? I haven't watched. I'm just always surprised by his continuing career.

If McDermott can play serviceable D at the 4 position, he can make a career as a floor stretcher. Is he too short to be Ryan Anderson?
   1776. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:37 PM (#4710859)
But you can at least see Oladipo contributing something. Even if he's an energy guy off the bench. Bennett didn't even look like he belonged in the NBA last year.


Agree. What I'm suggesting is that it's a defensible position, even in retrospect, that the Cavs looked at the giant pile of mediocrity and sub-mediocrity available last year and rolled the dice. That they were likely wrong about Bennett doesn't mean they were necessarily wrong about Oladipo or anyone else in the draft (except perhaps Noel, who we can still dream has star potential in him).
   1777. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:42 PM (#4710864)
If they had just taken Oladipo instead of Bennett and Valanciunas over Waiters, their team would be potentially loaded


Bennett was obviously a shitshow and the draft sucked, but are people actually high on Oladipo? I don't see it -- why do we think he is even a long-term NBA player let alone a building block? There are some mitigating factors (bad team, being shoehorned into PG), but this is a guy who is shooting 33 percent low-volume on 3's, 45 percent on 2's; bad A/T ratio; not a rebounder. He gets to the line and converts at a decent rate, and he has some steals, but I really don't see anything in his profile to suggest he's actually going to be good (and he's 22 right now; this is obviously not a fair comparison, but he's a year older than Anthony Davis).

Obviously he was a decent pick given the terrible draft, but I don't really think he moves the needle.

Oops, belated coke to jmurph [1771].
   1778. Bitter Mouse Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:46 PM (#4710866)
given the terrible draft


Yeah, it was bad. Which makes me feel less bad the Wolves drafted Shabazzzzzzzz. He won't amount to much, but yeah terrible overall draft. Dieng looks like he might turn into something which is a very nice bonus.
   1779. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:54 PM (#4710874)
I mean I'm about 90% sure the Brooklyn Plumlee can be a rotation big man for a while, and perhaps even a decent starter. I'm not 90% sure about any other player that got picked last year.

EDIT: Except on the negative side. I'm >90% sure many of them will never be any good.
   1780. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 21, 2014 at 02:55 PM (#4710877)
If J.J. Redick can find a home in the league, so can Doug McD. Okok, different skillsets and maybe Redick can handle the ball and defend guards adequately? I haven't watched. I'm just always surprised by his continuing career.


I think Redick is a really underrated defender. You expect him to suck on that side of the ball because he's white and he went to Duke and he was a 3-point shooter first and foremost there; it's easy to collapse him into that stereotype. But he sticks to his guy, is plenty quick enough to defend 2's, contests, and is never caught in a hand down man down position. He's a lot more athletic overall than he gets credit for.

I haven't really watched McDermott play much so I can't say the comparison is awful, but Redick is not a one-trick pony by any means.
   1781. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: May 21, 2014 at 03:01 PM (#4710887)
Tim Hardaway Jr. also looks like a useful rotation player for years to come. Although he is an abysmal defender.
   1782. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 21, 2014 at 03:02 PM (#4710888)
If McDermott can play serviceable D at the 4 position, he can make a career as a floor stretcher. Is he too short to be Ryan Anderson?

Yes.

I haven't really watched McDermott play much so I can't say the comparison is awful, but Redick is not a one-trick pony by any means.

I can't think of a single good reason to make the comparison.
   1783. andrewberg Posted: May 21, 2014 at 03:32 PM (#4710936)
The obvious comp for McDermott is Korver (white AND Creighton). I think McDermott will be a rotation player for many years and has virtually no chance to be a star in any of them. That make him a late lotto value, in my mind.
   1784. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 03:32 PM (#4710937)
I can't think of a single good reason to make the comparison.


Look, he's either Redick, Morrison, or Korver. Pick one!
   1785. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 21, 2014 at 03:36 PM (#4710941)
You guys are so small-minded, leaving David Lee and Gordon Hayward out of the comparisons.
   1786. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 21, 2014 at 03:37 PM (#4710942)
Where's a Steve Novak comp when you need one?
   1787. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: May 21, 2014 at 03:44 PM (#4710950)
Paul George has been diagnosed with a concussion and might miss Game 3.
   1788. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 21, 2014 at 03:49 PM (#4710961)
I think a lot of people actually diagnosed him during game 2 when it happened. Will this be enough to get the NBA to revisit their concussion policy?
   1789. Jimmy P Posted: May 21, 2014 at 03:52 PM (#4710968)
You guys are so small-minded, leaving David Lee and Gordon Hayward out of the comparisons.


Keith Van Horn is crying that he's always overlooked as the "Token White Guy Comp"
   1790. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:06 PM (#4710992)
In truth I agree with berg's comp. He seems like he could definitely have Korver's career, and Korver has certainly been good enough to be in the rotation of a championship caliber team.
   1791. AROM Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:06 PM (#4710993)
Korver is a pretty good comp for him. Right down to them being about the same size - he's 6'6.5.

McBuckets has a bit of a post game that Korver does not have. He also has freakishly low rates of blocks and steals, which I don't understand. By the combine results, he's not completely unathletic. It could be a matter of choice, that he plays such conservative, fundamental defense that he just doesn't gamble at all.

For his college career, he has averaged 8.5 steals and 3.5 blocks per season (1100+ minutes). Rates that low are pretty much unprecedented. I can't find anyone who played significant minutes in college (in the last 10+ years that cbbref has the data) even remotely comparable. He makes Steve Novak look like Kirilenko.
   1792. Booey Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:08 PM (#4710997)
Heh. White people. We're all the same. :-)
   1793. Rob_Wood Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:09 PM (#4711001)
kent benson, kelly tripucka, etc.
   1794. AROM Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:10 PM (#4711005)
Paul George has been diagnosed with a concussion and might miss Game 3.


That's too bad. Hopefully it's not so bad as a Justin Morneau, which ended his season, or Corey Koskie, whose concussion was basically a career ender.

They have 3 days off between games 2-3, so he might be back in there.
   1795. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:15 PM (#4711010)
All of this is boring. What will Danny Ferry do?

Try to trade for Kevin Love, probably fail. Draft a wing with a chance of being a useful two-way player. Explore Paul Millsap's trade value. Hope Lou Williams becomes his old self. Wait for the next disenchanted top-20 player in the league to reveal himself.
   1796. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4711017)
Cohen had taken the little placard with the Cavaliers logo from the drawing room as a souvenir, and he said the team has already framed the same placards from previous lottery wins. The team plans to display them on a wall in their practice facility. Sometimes the jokes really write themselves.


Hahahahahahahahahaha.
   1797. steagles Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4711046)
You guys are so small-minded, leaving David Lee and Gordon Hayward out of the comparisons.
does anyone else see david lee as a good comp for julius randle?
   1798. cmd600 Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:51 PM (#4711048)
The Cavs plan is "to try to get radically better much quicker". Who knows whatever the hell that means exactly, but if it's taken at face value, I'd guess it means they are going hard after Love, who they've wanted, but never had close to the ammo to get, for a while.

Edit: And apparently hes telling the media that anyone and everyone is calling him asking for the pick. Clearly trying to drum up some demand. They want Love badly.
   1799. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:51 PM (#4711049)
does anyone else see david lee as a good comp for julius randle?


Interesting. I guess I'd hesitate to assume that any 19 year old will permanently be useless on defense like Lee is, but that's not a bad offensive comp.
   1800. jmurph Posted: May 21, 2014 at 04:52 PM (#4711052)
The Cavs plan is "to try to get radically better much quicker". Who knows whatever the hell that means exactly, but if it's taken at face value, I'd guess it means they are going hard after Love, who they've wanted, but never had close to the ammo to get, for a while.


How about Irving and the number 1 plus salary filler for Love and Rubio?
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