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Thursday, April 03, 2014
OT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2014
I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about, which I forgot.
Have posts been building up inside you?
The District Attorney
Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:26 PM | 2387 comment(s)
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Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic
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- Chicago doesn't have the offense to push Washington's defense
- Nene will really bother Noah
- The Wizards' guards are going to be able to get into the lane against Chicago's guards
All three things were true yesterday, though it was a real surprise that the one Washington guard that gave Chicago trouble was ancient Andre Miller.
He would probably be a little slower, since Wade's got a bit more meat to him.
All three things were true yesterday, though it was a real surprise that the one Washington guard that gave Chicago trouble was ancient Andre Miller.
Miller has always given the Bulls problems, going back to Hinrich's first stint with the team. He always bugged Rose, and Augustin is the exact type of guard Miller has always eaten up.
So would I.
bodymind, wouldn't he?scott boras had an idea for baseball, that teams could only draft highschoolers in the first 3 or 5 or 10 rounds of the draft, but anyone that wasn't drafted there had to go to college. i think a similar styled rule could work in basketball.
you could draft freshmen or sophomores in the lottery, but if you want to draft one outside of the lottery, you'd have to give up next year's 1st round pick to do it. to make this work, i guess you would have to make all players eligible to be drafted (that would allow players who aren't picked to return to school) and you'd have to allow teams to keep the rights to any player who's picked but chooses to stay in school.
that would allow great players into the league immediately and it would allow lesser underclassmen to continue to develop in the NCAA (ugh.) instead of wasting a couple years as bench warmers.
Why? And what is the relevance of how far the team advanced in a one-game elimination tournament?
I have seen all of those names at least linked to the Wolves, as well as George Karl. I don't think they have any chance of getting any of the college coaches to make the leap to that team at this time. They will be solid next year, but could be in very rough shape after that. What I don't understand is why anyone associated with the team would give any indication that they're interested in these guys if its not already a done deal. It just makes the team look bad when they can't get them.
I think the NBA should just to try to get the top 30 prospects each year to play in the D-League, offering to pay for their future college, provide some of their own education and mentoring and pay them money some as well. Players could then declare after one year there or wait up three or four years at which point they are automatically eligible.
I'm surprised nobody else has followed the Brandon Jennings path, he got paid good money in Europe and got sponsorships on top of that, but was still a lottery pick and still got a big contract once he was a free agent.
How much would you have to pay guys to make that desirable? I have been leaning toward this solution, as well, but I am having a hard time figuring out where that equilibrium is.
also, i think the DLeague has limited appeal because, as boring as it can be to live in kansas or kentucky or connecticut, they're still college towns and that puts them miles and miles and miles ahead of places like rio grande valley or sioux falls or canton.
They have a system where someone else pays for the training and development and makes the players marketable commodities, all before the NBA has to pay a dime.
I don't really understand the problem people are trying to solve.
I do understand that the NBA would like, on the whole, to put more of the training/development/marketing on the NCAA, thus the push for a two-year-exclusion.
I also get that a perfect NBA system would let LeBron or Durant go direct but force the also-rans to try to develop themselves more, but that's hard to achieve.
Ed: to clear up second to last sentence that the NBA wants to put more of the training/development/marketing on the NCAA
EDIT: Coke to Tom.
I still refuse to believe OKC can win the title with Fisher and Perkins in on the last play of the game.
Once again the Sixers are heralding the future, with their DLeague team playing in the University of Delaware gym.
They had to have played at least 14 mins together tonight. Lee is essentially the main 2-guard and Miller is one of the main subs, so they are out there together some. But they are gonna play Allen a fair amount, so that limits the shooting they can put out there. I do think the Miller-Lee lineup will see more use if anybody starts to do them like the Spurs did in the WCF last year. I think(hope?) the Allen-Prince combo will see very limited use and they will use Miller pretty liberally if a team is really clamping down on Gasol/Randolph inside. That's essentially why they signed him.
I actually just hope Prince sees limited use in general. I think he played 18 mins in the first two games and that is basically fine with me. Prince essentially adds nothing over Allen except a little ballhandling at this point and you really don't need mins from two guys who can't shoot, so play the better one. Prince is very close to done in my opinion.
Speculation about most of those has been coming from everywhere (not just the team), in Hoiberg's case for a couple years now. The other name mentioned a bunch is Flip Saunders.
That said, I would love to see Karl take the job. He's always entertained me.
It doesn't have to be coming from the team. It can come from the coaches themselves, their agents, player's agents, or just off the record idle speculation. That's not to say the Wolves couldn't have floated these names, but I'm not necessarily going to blame them for something they might not have had anything to do with.
I have to think Izzo, specifically, keeps having his agent float stuff like this every couple of years. Feeds the ego, maybe fattens his wallet a little. I like Izzo, but there really isn't any other reason to explain why he's constantly named.
Nothing to quibble about with the results here.
I don't think the NBA wants to push the development on there. I think the NBA wants to push the first 2-3 years of the kid's career on there. Especially now with the shorter contracts due to the CBA, the NBA really wants to limit the amount of times the top players come up for free agency. The easiest way to do that is just to delay the start timer. Kobe and Lebron are actually what scares the owners, because these guys hit free agency 2-3 times IN THEIR PRIME. They want players to only have 1-2 dips at that.
I think the NBA actually would benefit by taking more control of a kid's development. How much better did Marcus Smart or Willie Cauley-Stein get this year by hanging around? They just kept doing the same things that worked before. Cuban's on the right track, but to make the D-League a true alternative, they'll have to up the pay of the players.
New GM thought that firing the Coach of the Year and hiring a first time coach was the smart way to develop a team.
Karl seems to have a real propensity for blowing things up himself, of course. He's not above acting petty and mean.
That's fair. The thing that confused me was that IMMEDIATELY after Adelman announced his retirement, the two names that came out were Donovan and Hollins. It seemed at the time that it had to have come from the team, and there's no way they're getting Donovan.
He did have cancer a few years ago (throat I think) but beat it and came back to be a great coach again.
The Timberwolves have tried both of these strategies. They both suck, btw. :)
Can someone explain to me why he is not in the Hall of Fame as a coach?
So many things about this page are good.
They're waiting for him to retire.
Is Tyler really much worse off than he if went to college? He made some money overseas and was in the NBA by age 20. He's not really that good, so it's hard say if he would made much impact in college, he was committed to Louisville who had Dieng when he would have been there.
I think the NCAA limits player development some; I think full time professional coaching rather limited college coaching would develop players better. I think rather than token liberal arts education that none of the players really care about specialized education directed at future NBA players would help handling the day to day that goes with being a player. I think it eventually makes the D-League more marketable if it becomes the home of future stars rather merely fringe players and retreads, minor league baseball makes good money, basketball has that potential as well.
Baseball and European sports do a fine job of developing players without needing the crutch of something like the NCAA. I'd think even going as far as setting up youth academies to circumvent basketball factory high schools or corrupt AAU teams would be good long term for the league as well.
It is possible the coaching in an NBA DL would be better. I doubt the effect is huge. NCAA coaches are really good coaches, too. The difference would be 1) the limited time per NCAA rules and 2) the rule differences. In an ideal world, an NBA team could--like Miami--have their DL team run their sets and plays so the incoming players know all that stuff the moment they arrive. as long as you have continuity at the top. But a good organization could benefit from that.
The hypothetical is possible. But do minor-league teams actually make money, once you exclude transfer payments from the major league team? It doesn't make sense to count that as profit for these purposes, since it would be a new or additional expense for many NBA teams.
More broadly, though, it raises the question of whether the minor-league model is a good one. The minors in baseball work because their costs are low. The average minor-league salary is $1,500 a month, right? Given the expenses covered by a scholarship, would accepting that level of a deal make sense? Given the stories about being able to afford fast food and lackluster training facilities in the minors, is it really true that minor-league baseball players get better development support than college football and basketball players?
If you pay them way more than $1,500 a month, then of course you're upping the expenses.
And I don't think you can overlook two big advantages for the NBA currently:
1) weeding out. Some number of busts get captured and weeded out in college. The NBA never pays them a dime.
2) marketing. You can put a high draft choice on a billboard because people have seen him play at Syracuse or Duke or Kentucky. You can't really do that with a guy called up from the minors in baseball. And it's free for the NBA!
I have a friend in SF real estate. I'll ask him. I am highly suspicious of claims to private finance for these deals.
Also, being close to the water made no sense for an NBA arena, except as the dishonest centerpiece of a flimflam deal to move shoddily constructed condos. Mission Bay will be cheaper, but further from useful transit. I would prefer for the Warriors to stay in Oakland and ditch the Golden State non-sense. They're an Oakland team.
... and that was a terrible time out by Wittman.
And the Wiz answer back in a hurry.
Also, Hoiberg supposedly just a got a raise to 2.6M/per.
NCAA coaches aren't trying to prep players for the NBA, so just having a coach who's job is to develop players that way would be a huge advantage. In some cases, the NCAA coach trying to win has goals that would align with a true NBA minor league, but more often that not I doubt that's the case.
More broadly, though, it raises the question of whether the minor-league model is a good one. The minors in baseball work because their costs are low. The average minor-league salary is $1,500 a month, right? Given the expenses covered by a scholarship, would accepting that level of a deal make sense? Given the stories about being able to afford fast food and lackluster training facilities in the minors, is it really true that minor-league baseball players get better development support than college football and basketball players?
There's a huge difference between one minor league team with 15 roster spots versus 5 (plus fall leagues, etc) with 25. In addition to baseball, it seems to work for hockey.
I am so, so ready to be done with Hinrich as a Bull (Boozer, too). The fascination with him has always been lost on me. Plus the bully, fake tough guy #### he pulled on Beal is just bush league (and that was *all* Hinrich). Wizards just look like a matchup problem for the Bulls (it was easy, at the time, to dismiss the regular season results since both Wiz wins were right after the Deng trade and the Bulls one was with Nene hurt). Bulls just don't have enough shooting, or enough depth to keep up with the Wizards over this series (Augustin was completely out of gas midway through the 4th and there was no one to come in for him). I'm also ready for Joey Crawford to be done with the NBA, him and his crews are just awful. I think both teams had legitimate gripes about virtually every call and no-call the 2nd half and OT*.
It really is going to be a huge offseason for the Bulls. If they amnesty Boozer, they'll have significant cap space to play around with. They had 2 first rounders, and a possible EuroLeague MVP to add. The can totally remake their roster if they want. They still don't know what they'll get out of Rose, but they can't just blindly hope to add him to this team and get a competitor - his injuries have derailed 3 straight seasons now. I don't know if Melo is a realistic option, or even if he should be. But they really need to do something significant if they won't want to waste Noah's prime.
*One particular play I'd be interested in seeing the NBA clarify or change how it's called is loose ball tie-ups. The idea that Nene could get a jump ball call by laying on top of Taj without even touching the ball is mind boggling, yet is clearly the way the rule is written/interpreted.
I'm sure it can be done somehow, but I'm curious as to what it would end up looking like.
They'd have to be draft eligible out of high school, and you probably have to add another 1-3 rounds to the draft.
I think so, at least some of them, there a quite a few don't care about college at all and never come close to graduating.
I don't think many would go to college for boola-boola. I think they would look at guys living four to an apartment and eating fast food and sharing a Wii and not saving any money and ask whether college wasn't actually a better plan.
When Cuban was talking about it, I got the impression he would want the league to subsidize the top stars, the one and done types like Wiggins or Parker. He also strongly emphasized life skills education as part of the deal, which is important for these younger players and something don't think they necessarily get much of in college.
I think it could work with the current draft. A D-League team might be owned by or affiliated with a specific NBA team, but would still be independent in some ways; if you look at this years Rio Grande Valley Vipers for example, they are affiliated with the Rockets and had Rockets players like Robert Covington and Isiah Canaan, but they also had guys like Darius Morris or Malik Wayns who played for other NBA teams and because the Vipers wanted to win they still gave plenty of minutes to the best players. I don't think adding one or two unaffiliated prospects to a team really changes the formula too much.
Not really related to this but the Vipers coaches are a guy named Nevada Smith who sounds like an off brand Indiana Jones and the great Paul Mokeski.
This sounds a lot like what college is probably like for these guys.
I think 40K still comes out ahead though with no tuition to pay for, especially if they are living in a cheap city. 40K would probably go a lot further for members of the Vipers than the D-Fenders. Guys like Wiggins or Parker would also be free to sign endorsements deals which could change the math significantly as well. Jennings when he played Europe not only got paid by his team, but got a pretty lucrative sponsorship from Under Armour as well.
I think any sports league would do well to provide healthy food for their players, I'm really surprised more don't.
The endorsement deals is a good point and would be a way of separating the actual stars from the guys who just have potential. An actual star would have an incentive to leave.
Draft becomes 3 rounds. You can enter after high school, or you can go to college for at least 3 years.
If you are drafted out of high school, you go to the D-League for at least one year and you get paid about 75k per year as a first rounder, 60k as a second rounder, 50k as a third rounder.
The team that drafts you can call you up any time after the first year ends and can send you back to the D-League within that 3-year window, but once you are called up, you are on something like the current rookie-scale contract.
If you go to college, you get drafted directly into a rookie-scale contract and can be sent to the D-League, but remain on your full contract.
If you declare for the draft out of HS, you can still sign with a D-League team for the 3rd round rate, same rules apply about being called up.
Players who are released during first year in D-League can sign with any other D-League team but cannot be called up until they have completed the first season.
I assume that teams are going to try to create decent living conditions (housing, food, etc) for their top picks.
I'm starting to agree with you, NJ...
*From Ron Tillery, Memphis Commercial Appeal. He voted Casey, Pops, Kidd. Thanks NBA for releasing all the ballots.
Dragic PER by year
SEASON PER
'08-'09 9.83
'09-'10 14.87
'10-'11 13.21
'11-'12 18.03
'12-'13 17.52
'13-'14 21.43
I see a pattern of stepforward, hold, stepforward and I wonder if we've seen the best of Dragic yet.
Enjoy (haven't posted that in a while).
Insane Dragic layup vs the Lakers - 2010 Western Conf finals
Dragic single handedly destroying the Spurs - 2010 Western Conf semi-finals. Dragic scores 26 of the Suns 44 points as they outscore the Spurs 44-27 over the final 14 minutes
Supposedly the new Central Subway, which will connect the Caltrain station to Union Square via 4th St (and the Powell BART stop) will be complete by then. They are certainly working a lot on it based on all the construction on and around 4th right now, including shutting off one side of the alley I live on (for what eventually will be a stop).
Don't rush to judgment.
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