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Thursday, April 03, 2014

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2014

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about, which I forgot.

Have posts been building up inside you?

The District Attorney Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:26 PM | 2387 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   401. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:07 PM (#4690443)
flip
   402. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:28 PM (#4690456)
All of you picking against the Bulls are just playing right into Thibs' hands! He's the master of the "no one believes in us" stuff - you're only inspiring them!
David Aldridge had a few reasons why Washington's draw of Chicago was the best possible for the series.
- Chicago doesn't have the offense to push Washington's defense
- Nene will really bother Noah
- The Wizards' guards are going to be able to get into the lane against Chicago's guards

All three things were true yesterday, though it was a real surprise that the one Washington guard that gave Chicago trouble was ancient Andre Miller.
   403. Dingbat_Charlie Posted: April 21, 2014 at 03:51 PM (#4690472)
Wall's play reminded me of his early years, playing too fast and missing jumpers. His improvement in those areas helped him become a very good player this season. Hopefully he'll adjust quickly to playoff ball.
   404. smileyy Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4690504)
John Wall would really really benefit from Dwyane Wade's body, wouldn't he?
   405. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:55 PM (#4690519)
John Wall would really really benefit from Dwyane Wade's body, wouldn't he?

He would probably be a little slower, since Wade's got a bit more meat to him.

All three things were true yesterday, though it was a real surprise that the one Washington guard that gave Chicago trouble was ancient Andre Miller.

Miller has always given the Bulls problems, going back to Hinrich's first stint with the team. He always bugged Rose, and Augustin is the exact type of guard Miller has always eaten up.
   406. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:55 PM (#4690520)
John Wall would really really benefit from Dwyane Wade's body, wouldn't he?

So would I.
   407. nick swisher hygiene Posted: April 21, 2014 at 04:59 PM (#4690526)
John Wall would really really benefit from Dwyane Wade's body mind, wouldn't he?

   408. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 05:03 PM (#4690528)
Dwayne Wade would really really benefit from John Wall's knees.
   409. steagles Posted: April 21, 2014 at 05:13 PM (#4690535)
so, i've been thinking about how adam silver wants to bump up the age limit to 20. i don't like the one and done rule, and i really don't like the idea of expanding it, but i think it's ridiculous that someone like zach lavine is turning pro after one year as a 6th man on a team that didn't make it out of the sweet 16.



scott boras had an idea for baseball, that teams could only draft highschoolers in the first 3 or 5 or 10 rounds of the draft, but anyone that wasn't drafted there had to go to college. i think a similar styled rule could work in basketball.

you could draft freshmen or sophomores in the lottery, but if you want to draft one outside of the lottery, you'd have to give up next year's 1st round pick to do it. to make this work, i guess you would have to make all players eligible to be drafted (that would allow players who aren't picked to return to school) and you'd have to allow teams to keep the rights to any player who's picked but chooses to stay in school.

that would allow great players into the league immediately and it would allow lesser underclassmen to continue to develop in the NCAA (ugh.) instead of wasting a couple years as bench warmers.
   410. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 05:26 PM (#4690547)
but i think it's ridiculous that someone like zach lavine is turning pro after one year as a 6th man on a team that didn't make it out of the sweet 16.

Why? And what is the relevance of how far the team advanced in a one-game elimination tournament?
   411. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: April 21, 2014 at 05:55 PM (#4690573)
I've read some reports that Minnesota is looking to the college ranks: Izzo, Donovan or Fred Hoiberg.
   412. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 21, 2014 at 05:59 PM (#4690575)
I see no reason why either Izzo or Donovan would go to the NBA at this point. Both have had multiple opportunities, in better situations, and have passed.
   413. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:02 PM (#4690578)
If the Wolves call, Mike Woodson would listen.
   414. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:26 PM (#4690594)
I would have to think Lionel Hollins is towards the top of most teams' lists.
   415. Into the Void Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:34 PM (#4690596)
What about Stan Van Gundy? I would love to see him coaching the Warriors...
   416. andrewberg Posted: April 21, 2014 at 06:50 PM (#4690604)
Izzo, Donovan or Fred Hoiberg.

Lionel Hollins

Stan Van Gundy


I have seen all of those names at least linked to the Wolves, as well as George Karl. I don't think they have any chance of getting any of the college coaches to make the leap to that team at this time. They will be solid next year, but could be in very rough shape after that. What I don't understand is why anyone associated with the team would give any indication that they're interested in these guys if its not already a done deal. It just makes the team look bad when they can't get them.
   417. Manny Coon Posted: April 21, 2014 at 07:00 PM (#4690608)
that would allow great players into the league immediately and it would allow lesser underclassmen to continue to develop in the NCAA (ugh.) instead of wasting a couple years as bench warmers.


I think the NBA should just to try to get the top 30 prospects each year to play in the D-League, offering to pay for their future college, provide some of their own education and mentoring and pay them money some as well. Players could then declare after one year there or wait up three or four years at which point they are automatically eligible.

I'm surprised nobody else has followed the Brandon Jennings path, he got paid good money in Europe and got sponsorships on top of that, but was still a lottery pick and still got a big contract once he was a free agent.
   418. andrewberg Posted: April 21, 2014 at 07:07 PM (#4690617)
pay them money some as well.


How much would you have to pay guys to make that desirable? I have been leaning toward this solution, as well, but I am having a hard time figuring out where that equilibrium is.
   419. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 21, 2014 at 07:08 PM (#4690619)
Oh, man, I can totally see George Karl lighting up the world with the Wolves. There's a lot of offensive talent on that squad, enough to have been a winning team this season. Karl could get at least 45 wins out of that squad, at least.
   420. steagles Posted: April 21, 2014 at 08:13 PM (#4690659)
I think the NBA should just to try to get the top 30 prospects each year to play in the D-League, offering to pay for their future college, provide some of their own education and mentoring and pay them money some as well. Players could then declare after one year there or wait up three or four years at which point they are automatically eligible.

I'm surprised nobody else has followed the Brandon Jennings path, he got paid good money in Europe and got sponsorships on top of that, but was still a lottery pick and still got a big contract once he was a free agent.
jeremy tyler went to japan but that didn't work out very well for anyone.

also, i think the DLeague has limited appeal because, as boring as it can be to live in kansas or kentucky or connecticut, they're still college towns and that puts them miles and miles and miles ahead of places like rio grande valley or sioux falls or canton.
   421. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 09:35 PM (#4690723)
It's hard for me to understand how the Grizzlies can have so little shooting on the floor at all times. Have they tried Miller+Lee lineups?
   422. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 21, 2014 at 09:57 PM (#4690756)
Thought experiment: if there were no 3 point line how close would the Grizzlies be to the best team in the league?
   423. GregD Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:18 PM (#4690771)
I think the NBA should just to try to get the top 30 prospects each year to play in the D-League, offering to pay for their future college, provide some of their own education and mentoring and pay them money some as well. Players could then declare after one year there or wait up three or four years at which point they are automatically eligible.
how would this help the NBA?

They have a system where someone else pays for the training and development and makes the players marketable commodities, all before the NBA has to pay a dime.

I don't really understand the problem people are trying to solve.

I do understand that the NBA would like, on the whole, to put more of the training/development/marketing on the NCAA, thus the push for a two-year-exclusion.

I also get that a perfect NBA system would let LeBron or Durant go direct but force the also-rans to try to develop themselves more, but that's hard to achieve.

Ed: to clear up second to last sentence that the NBA wants to put more of the training/development/marketing on the NCAA
   424. Spivey Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:29 PM (#4690779)
Memphis is always such a wild card in the playoffs. They're a good conference's Indiana.
   425. steagles Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:35 PM (#4690783)
I also get that a perfect NBA system would let LeBron or Durant go direct but force the also-rans to try to develop themselves more, but that's hard to achieve.
which is why i think boras's framework is ideal.
   426. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:36 PM (#4690785)
Kevin Durant is just...unreal.
   427. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:38 PM (#4690787)
That was unreal.

EDIT: Coke to Tom.
   428. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:41 PM (#4690790)
Of course it had to be Perkins.
   429. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:43 PM (#4690794)
Basketball is a stupid game sometimes. This is one of those times. #### Kendrick Perkins.
   430. Spivey Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:43 PM (#4690795)
What the hell Memphis?

I still refuse to believe OKC can win the title with Fisher and Perkins in on the last play of the game.
   431. steagles Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:44 PM (#4690797)
Basketball is a stupid game sometimes. This is one of those times. #### Kendrick Perkins.
it helps when refs don't ignore glaringly obvious 3 second violations.
   432. Spivey Posted: April 21, 2014 at 10:57 PM (#4690805)
Wow, I don't understand how they didn't call a foul on Conley against Durant.
   433. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 21, 2014 at 11:03 PM (#4690810)
So Perkins and Sefolosha have both made huge plays. Sure can't wait for Fisher to nail the game winner.
   434. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 22, 2014 at 12:04 AM (#4690832)
also, i think the DLeague has limited appeal because, as boring as it can be to live in kansas or kentucky or connecticut, they're still college towns and that puts them miles and miles and miles ahead of places like rio grande valley or sioux falls or canton.

Once again the Sixers are heralding the future, with their DLeague team playing in the University of Delaware gym.
   435. Maxwn Posted: April 22, 2014 at 12:34 AM (#4690835)
I love Tony Allen. He is one of the funnest players I have ever rooted for in any sport.

It's hard for me to understand how the Grizzlies can have so little shooting on the floor at all times. Have they tried Miller+Lee lineup

They had to have played at least 14 mins together tonight. Lee is essentially the main 2-guard and Miller is one of the main subs, so they are out there together some. But they are gonna play Allen a fair amount, so that limits the shooting they can put out there. I do think the Miller-Lee lineup will see more use if anybody starts to do them like the Spurs did in the WCF last year. I think(hope?) the Allen-Prince combo will see very limited use and they will use Miller pretty liberally if a team is really clamping down on Gasol/Randolph inside. That's essentially why they signed him.

I actually just hope Prince sees limited use in general. I think he played 18 mins in the first two games and that is basically fine with me. Prince essentially adds nothing over Allen except a little ballhandling at this point and you really don't need mins from two guys who can't shoot, so play the better one. Prince is very close to done in my opinion.
   436. steagles Posted: April 22, 2014 at 12:48 AM (#4690840)
They had to have played at least 14 mins together tonight. Lee is essentially the main 2-guard and Miller is one of the main subs, so they are out there together some. But they are gonna play Allen a fair amount, so that limits the shooting they can put out there. I do think the Miller-Lee lineup will see more use if anybody starts to do them like the Spurs did in the WCF last year. I think(hope?) the Allen-Prince combo will see very limited use and they will use Miller pretty liberally if a team is really clamping down on Gasol/Randolph inside. That's essentially why they signed him.
found it. the combination of lee and miller has been on the court for 221 minutes this season. it does not appear as if they've been very successful.
   437. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 22, 2014 at 07:40 AM (#4690878)
[435, 436] Thanks.
   438. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 22, 2014 at 07:54 AM (#4690882)
What I don't understand is why anyone associated with the team would give any indication that they're interested in these guys if its not already a done deal. It just makes the team look bad when they can't get them.


Speculation about most of those has been coming from everywhere (not just the team), in Hoiberg's case for a couple years now. The other name mentioned a bunch is Flip Saunders.
   439. TFTIO is familiar with the works of Pablo Neruda Posted: April 22, 2014 at 08:25 AM (#4690893)
Why, at this point, would anyone be surprised at the Twolves appearing to be inept?

That said, I would love to see Karl take the job. He's always entertained me.
   440. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 22, 2014 at 11:25 AM (#4691066)
What I don't understand is why anyone associated with the team would give any indication that they're interested in these guys if its not already a done deal. It just makes the team look bad when they can't get them.

Speculation about most of those has been coming from everywhere (not just the team), in Hoiberg's case for a couple years now. The other name mentioned a bunch is Flip Saunders.


It doesn't have to be coming from the team. It can come from the coaches themselves, their agents, player's agents, or just off the record idle speculation. That's not to say the Wolves couldn't have floated these names, but I'm not necessarily going to blame them for something they might not have had anything to do with.

I have to think Izzo, specifically, keeps having his agent float stuff like this every couple of years. Feeds the ego, maybe fattens his wallet a little. I like Izzo, but there really isn't any other reason to explain why he's constantly named.
   441. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 22, 2014 at 11:47 AM (#4691092)
Gregg Popovich of the San Antonio Spurs was named the NBA Coach of the Year on Tuesday, becoming just the third three-time winner of the award in league history.

Popovich tallied 59 first-place votes and 380 points in balloting among sportswriters and broadcasters, finishing just ahead of Phoenix Suns coach Jeff Hornacek, who had 339 points (37 first-place votes).

Chicago's Tom Thibodeau (159 points), Charlotte's Steve Clifford (127) and Toronto's Dwane Casey (70) rounded out the top five.


Nothing to quibble about with the results here.
   442. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: April 22, 2014 at 11:48 AM (#4691096)
That game was amazing last night. I love the playoffs!
   443. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 22, 2014 at 11:56 AM (#4691100)
I thought George Karl was dead or had some sort of catastrophic health problem. Why did he leave Denver again?
   444. Jimmy P Posted: April 22, 2014 at 12:00 PM (#4691103)
I do understand that the NBA would like, on the whole, to put more of the training/development/marketing on the NCAA, thus the push for a two-year-exclusion.


I don't think the NBA wants to push the development on there. I think the NBA wants to push the first 2-3 years of the kid's career on there. Especially now with the shorter contracts due to the CBA, the NBA really wants to limit the amount of times the top players come up for free agency. The easiest way to do that is just to delay the start timer. Kobe and Lebron are actually what scares the owners, because these guys hit free agency 2-3 times IN THEIR PRIME. They want players to only have 1-2 dips at that.

I think the NBA actually would benefit by taking more control of a kid's development. How much better did Marcus Smart or Willie Cauley-Stein get this year by hanging around? They just kept doing the same things that worked before. Cuban's on the right track, but to make the D-League a true alternative, they'll have to up the pay of the players.
   445. Jimmy P Posted: April 22, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4691109)
I thought George Karl was dead or had some sort of catastrophic health problem. Why did he leave Denver again?


New GM thought that firing the Coach of the Year and hiring a first time coach was the smart way to develop a team.
   446. TFTIO is familiar with the works of Pablo Neruda Posted: April 22, 2014 at 12:23 PM (#4691123)
New GM thought that firing the Coach of the Year and hiring a first time coach was the smart way to develop a team.

Karl seems to have a real propensity for blowing things up himself, of course. He's not above acting petty and mean.
   447. andrewberg Posted: April 22, 2014 at 12:24 PM (#4691124)
It doesn't have to be coming from the team. It can come from the coaches themselves, their agents, player's agents, or just off the record idle speculation. That's not to say the Wolves couldn't have floated these names, but I'm not necessarily going to blame them for something they might not have had anything to do with.


That's fair. The thing that confused me was that IMMEDIATELY after Adelman announced his retirement, the two names that came out were Donovan and Hollins. It seemed at the time that it had to have come from the team, and there's no way they're getting Donovan.

I thought George Karl was dead or had some sort of catastrophic health problem. Why did he leave Denver again?


He did have cancer a few years ago (throat I think) but beat it and came back to be a great coach again.
   448. kpelton Posted: April 22, 2014 at 01:46 PM (#4691206)
Not the new GM -- he was hired after Karl was fired. That was strictly on the owner, Josh Kroenke. While Karl certainly has flamed out in the past, this seemed to be almost entirely about his inability to get past the first round. Turns out one good way to not lose in the first round is to not make the playoffs at all.
   449. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 22, 2014 at 01:55 PM (#4691230)
Turns out one good way to not lose in the first round is to not make the playoffs at all.


The Timberwolves have tried both of these strategies. They both suck, btw. :)
   450. Srul Itza Posted: April 22, 2014 at 02:33 PM (#4691275)
Gregg Popovich of the San Antonio Spurs was named the NBA Coach of the Year on Tuesday, becoming just the third three-time winner of the award in league history


Can someone explain to me why he is not in the Hall of Fame as a coach?
   451. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:36 PM (#4691354)
For Sale: 7-2 NBA Center in Bizarre Decline

So many things about this page are good.
   452. thok Posted: April 22, 2014 at 03:51 PM (#4691373)
Can someone explain to me why he is not in the Hall of Fame as a coach?


They're waiting for him to retire.
   453. Manny Coon Posted: April 22, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4691443)
jeremy tyler went to japan but that didn't work out very well for anyone.


Is Tyler really much worse off than he if went to college? He made some money overseas and was in the NBA by age 20. He's not really that good, so it's hard say if he would made much impact in college, he was committed to Louisville who had Dieng when he would have been there.

how would this help the NBA?

They have a system where someone else pays for the training and development and makes the players marketable commodities, all before the NBA has to pay a dime.

I don't really understand the problem people are trying to solve.

I do understand that the NBA would like, on the whole, to put more of the training/development/marketing on the NCAA, thus the push for a two-year-exclusion.

I also get that a perfect NBA system would let LeBron or Durant go direct but force the also-rans to try to develop themselves more, but that's hard to achieve.


I think the NCAA limits player development some; I think full time professional coaching rather limited college coaching would develop players better. I think rather than token liberal arts education that none of the players really care about specialized education directed at future NBA players would help handling the day to day that goes with being a player. I think it eventually makes the D-League more marketable if it becomes the home of future stars rather merely fringe players and retreads, minor league baseball makes good money, basketball has that potential as well.

Baseball and European sports do a fine job of developing players without needing the crutch of something like the NCAA. I'd think even going as far as setting up youth academies to circumvent basketball factory high schools or corrupt AAU teams would be good long term for the league as well.
   454. puck Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:15 PM (#4691594)
Any comments on the Warriors' new stadium site? They bought this themselves, and will build the stadium themselves? That seems unbelievable in this day and age, especially since that land must not have been cheap.
   455. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:27 PM (#4691602)
I know two other games are on and there's a ton of baseball (ALBERT 500!), but is everyone just waiting to see if the Bulls win or lose tonight?
   456. GregD Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:36 PM (#4691608)
I think the NCAA limits player development some; I think full time professional coaching rather limited college coaching would develop players better. I think rather than token liberal arts education that none of the players really care about specialized education directed at future NBA players would help handling the day to day that goes with being a player.


It is possible the coaching in an NBA DL would be better. I doubt the effect is huge. NCAA coaches are really good coaches, too. The difference would be 1) the limited time per NCAA rules and 2) the rule differences. In an ideal world, an NBA team could--like Miami--have their DL team run their sets and plays so the incoming players know all that stuff the moment they arrive. as long as you have continuity at the top. But a good organization could benefit from that.

I think it eventually makes the D-League more marketable if it becomes the home of future stars rather merely fringe players and retreads, minor league baseball makes good money, basketball has that potential as well.
The hypothetical is possible. But do minor-league teams actually make money, once you exclude transfer payments from the major league team? It doesn't make sense to count that as profit for these purposes, since it would be a new or additional expense for many NBA teams.

More broadly, though, it raises the question of whether the minor-league model is a good one. The minors in baseball work because their costs are low. The average minor-league salary is $1,500 a month, right? Given the expenses covered by a scholarship, would accepting that level of a deal make sense? Given the stories about being able to afford fast food and lackluster training facilities in the minors, is it really true that minor-league baseball players get better development support than college football and basketball players?

If you pay them way more than $1,500 a month, then of course you're upping the expenses.

And I don't think you can overlook two big advantages for the NBA currently:
1) weeding out. Some number of busts get captured and weeded out in college. The NBA never pays them a dime.
2) marketing. You can put a high draft choice on a billboard because people have seen him play at Syracuse or Duke or Kentucky. You can't really do that with a guy called up from the minors in baseball. And it's free for the NBA!
   457. TFTIO is familiar with the works of Pablo Neruda Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:54 PM (#4691623)
Any comments on the Warriors' new stadium site?

I have a friend in SF real estate. I'll ask him. I am highly suspicious of claims to private finance for these deals.

Also, being close to the water made no sense for an NBA arena, except as the dishonest centerpiece of a flimflam deal to move shoddily constructed condos. Mission Bay will be cheaper, but further from useful transit. I would prefer for the Warriors to stay in Oakland and ditch the Golden State non-sense. They're an Oakland team.

   458. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 22, 2014 at 09:59 PM (#4691624)
Wizards out of the gates in a hurry. Bulls are in trouble.
   459. Publius Publicola Posted: April 22, 2014 at 10:04 PM (#4691626)
Bulls are getting taken apart by the Wizards. There's so many brutal matchups for the Bulls. Wall can blow by Hinrich any time he wants. Nene has Noah completely flustered. Gortat is kicking Boozer's ass. Beal is much better than Butler. Even Ariza has the advantage over Dunleavy. And even when the bench comes in, the Bulls get no relief.
   460. Spivey Posted: April 22, 2014 at 10:05 PM (#4691628)
Eastern Conference basketball is so depressing.
   461. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 22, 2014 at 10:30 PM (#4691636)
Bulls, just doing Bulls stuff, trying to muscle up on the younger Wizards.

... and that was a terrible time out by Wittman.
   462. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 22, 2014 at 10:42 PM (#4691645)
John Wall staves off the Bulls, 7 points in the last 65 seconds. 56-49 at halftime.
   463. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 22, 2014 at 11:08 PM (#4691654)
MIKE DUNLEAVEY gets them within 1!

And the Wiz answer back in a hurry.
   464. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 22, 2014 at 11:26 PM (#4691661)
Bulls with a huge defensive 3rd quarter.
   465. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:22 AM (#4691673)
John Wall is so hugely gifted, but watching him play is exasperating. For all his ability, he does some stupid ####.
   466. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:28 AM (#4691675)
Oh, captain, my captain, that's gotta hurt.
   467. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:32 AM (#4691676)
My Wizards v Heat ECF pick is looking great right about now.
   468. rr Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:05 AM (#4691683)
Fred Hoiberg's ISU contract, as per Wikipedia:

In April 2013, Hoiberg signed a 10-year contract extension with Iowa State worth $20 million. Hoiberg's contract has a $2 million buyout clause if he leaves for another college coaching position, but the buyout is only $500,000 if he leaves to become an NBA head coach or general manager.


Also, Hoiberg supposedly just a got a raise to 2.6M/per.
   469. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 23, 2014 at 10:26 AM (#4691833)
It is possible the coaching in an NBA DL would be better. I doubt the effect is huge. NCAA coaches are really good coaches, too.

NCAA coaches aren't trying to prep players for the NBA, so just having a coach who's job is to develop players that way would be a huge advantage. In some cases, the NCAA coach trying to win has goals that would align with a true NBA minor league, but more often that not I doubt that's the case.

More broadly, though, it raises the question of whether the minor-league model is a good one. The minors in baseball work because their costs are low. The average minor-league salary is $1,500 a month, right? Given the expenses covered by a scholarship, would accepting that level of a deal make sense? Given the stories about being able to afford fast food and lackluster training facilities in the minors, is it really true that minor-league baseball players get better development support than college football and basketball players?

There's a huge difference between one minor league team with 15 roster spots versus 5 (plus fall leagues, etc) with 25. In addition to baseball, it seems to work for hockey.
   470. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 23, 2014 at 10:37 AM (#4691850)
Oh, captain, my captain, that's gotta hurt.

I am so, so ready to be done with Hinrich as a Bull (Boozer, too). The fascination with him has always been lost on me. Plus the bully, fake tough guy #### he pulled on Beal is just bush league (and that was *all* Hinrich). Wizards just look like a matchup problem for the Bulls (it was easy, at the time, to dismiss the regular season results since both Wiz wins were right after the Deng trade and the Bulls one was with Nene hurt). Bulls just don't have enough shooting, or enough depth to keep up with the Wizards over this series (Augustin was completely out of gas midway through the 4th and there was no one to come in for him). I'm also ready for Joey Crawford to be done with the NBA, him and his crews are just awful. I think both teams had legitimate gripes about virtually every call and no-call the 2nd half and OT*.

It really is going to be a huge offseason for the Bulls. If they amnesty Boozer, they'll have significant cap space to play around with. They had 2 first rounders, and a possible EuroLeague MVP to add. The can totally remake their roster if they want. They still don't know what they'll get out of Rose, but they can't just blindly hope to add him to this team and get a competitor - his injuries have derailed 3 straight seasons now. I don't know if Melo is a realistic option, or even if he should be. But they really need to do something significant if they won't want to waste Noah's prime.

*One particular play I'd be interested in seeing the NBA clarify or change how it's called is loose ball tie-ups. The idea that Nene could get a jump ball call by laying on top of Taj without even touching the ball is mind boggling, yet is clearly the way the rule is written/interpreted.
   471. GregD Posted: April 23, 2014 at 10:47 AM (#4691863)
The AHL pays $40,000-$70,000, right? Would players pass up college for $40,000 without the same expenses factored in?
   472. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: April 23, 2014 at 10:57 AM (#4691880)
How would an NBDL type thing work if players could go straight from high school? Would that change the draft? Why would the Spurs' minor league system care about developing Jabari Parker for two years if he's going to then enter the real draft and almost surely go to a different franchise?

I'm sure it can be done somehow, but I'm curious as to what it would end up looking like.
   473. jmurph Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:07 AM (#4691898)
Why would the Spurs' minor league system care about developing Jabari Parker for two years if he's going to then enter the real draft and almost surely go to a different franchise?


They'd have to be draft eligible out of high school, and you probably have to add another 1-3 rounds to the draft.
   474. Manny Coon Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:18 AM (#4691916)
The AHL pays $40,000-$70,000, right? Would players pass up college for $40,000 without the same expenses factored in?


I think so, at least some of them, there a quite a few don't care about college at all and never come close to graduating.
   475. GregD Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM (#4691940)
But it would actually be a money loss for them once they paid housing and food and other expenses and taxes, right?

I don't think many would go to college for boola-boola. I think they would look at guys living four to an apartment and eating fast food and sharing a Wii and not saving any money and ask whether college wasn't actually a better plan.
   476. Manny Coon Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:43 AM (#4691967)
How would an NBDL type thing work if players could go straight from high school? Would that change the draft? Why would the Spurs' minor league system care about developing Jabari Parker for two years if he's going to then enter the real draft and almost surely go to a different franchise?


When Cuban was talking about it, I got the impression he would want the league to subsidize the top stars, the one and done types like Wiggins or Parker. He also strongly emphasized life skills education as part of the deal, which is important for these younger players and something don't think they necessarily get much of in college.

I think it could work with the current draft. A D-League team might be owned by or affiliated with a specific NBA team, but would still be independent in some ways; if you look at this years Rio Grande Valley Vipers for example, they are affiliated with the Rockets and had Rockets players like Robert Covington and Isiah Canaan, but they also had guys like Darius Morris or Malik Wayns who played for other NBA teams and because the Vipers wanted to win they still gave plenty of minutes to the best players. I don't think adding one or two unaffiliated prospects to a team really changes the formula too much.

Not really related to this but the Vipers coaches are a guy named Nevada Smith who sounds like an off brand Indiana Jones and the great Paul Mokeski.
   477. Manny Coon Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:55 AM (#4691981)
I think they would look at guys living four to an apartment and eating fast food and sharing a Wii and not saving any money


This sounds a lot like what college is probably like for these guys.

I think 40K still comes out ahead though with no tuition to pay for, especially if they are living in a cheap city. 40K would probably go a lot further for members of the Vipers than the D-Fenders. Guys like Wiggins or Parker would also be free to sign endorsements deals which could change the math significantly as well. Jennings when he played Europe not only got paid by his team, but got a pretty lucrative sponsorship from Under Armour as well.

I think any sports league would do well to provide healthy food for their players, I'm really surprised more don't.

   478. GregD Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:13 PM (#4692006)
This sounds a lot like what college is probably like for these guys.

I think 40K still comes out ahead though with no tuition to pay for, especially if they are living in a cheap city. 40K would probably go a lot further for members of the Vipers than the D-Fenders. Guys like Wiggins or Parker would also be free to sign endorsements deals which could change the math significantly as well. Jennings when he played Europe not only got paid by his team, but got a pretty lucrative sponsorship from Under Armour as well.
Have you seen the athletic dorms at top colleges?

The endorsement deals is a good point and would be a way of separating the actual stars from the guys who just have potential. An actual star would have an incentive to leave.
   479. andrewberg Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:37 PM (#4692055)
How about this:

Draft becomes 3 rounds. You can enter after high school, or you can go to college for at least 3 years.

If you are drafted out of high school, you go to the D-League for at least one year and you get paid about 75k per year as a first rounder, 60k as a second rounder, 50k as a third rounder.

The team that drafts you can call you up any time after the first year ends and can send you back to the D-League within that 3-year window, but once you are called up, you are on something like the current rookie-scale contract.

If you go to college, you get drafted directly into a rookie-scale contract and can be sent to the D-League, but remain on your full contract.

If you declare for the draft out of HS, you can still sign with a D-League team for the 3rd round rate, same rules apply about being called up.

Players who are released during first year in D-League can sign with any other D-League team but cannot be called up until they have completed the first season.

I assume that teams are going to try to create decent living conditions (housing, food, etc) for their top picks.
   480. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:42 PM (#4692063)
The Indiana Pacers' Frank Vogel is "coaching for his job" and a strong playoff showing is essential despite a 56-win season that earned the No. 1 seed in the Eastern Conference, sources said.

Team sources confirmed a Yahoo Sports report that the Pacers' Lance Stephenson and Evan Turner fought during practice before Game 1 of their playoff series against the Atlanta Hawks, and sources said Stephenson and guard George Hill had to be separated on the bench during a 26-point home loss to the San Antonio Spurs on March 31.


I'm starting to agree with you, NJ...
   481. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:46 PM (#4692066)
I gotta say, I saw someone point out in a tweet yesterday that Kidd got a 3rd place COY votes (ridiculous, IMO, but whatever*) and Vogel didn't get a single vote. That's kind of amazing.

*From Ron Tillery, Memphis Commercial Appeal. He voted Casey, Pops, Kidd. Thanks NBA for releasing all the ballots.
   482. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:10 PM (#4692112)
I also want to complain about the NBA's schedule. Only 3 games last night and *all* Eastern Conference? What kind of bullshit fan-hating is that? Bulls game start 8:30 local time and 9:30 for the Wiz fans.
   483. smileyy Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:42 PM (#4692143)
I'm really not sure whose or which problems you're trying to solve, andrewberg
   484. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 23, 2014 at 02:09 PM (#4692174)
Dragic, MIP. Stephenson 2nd, ADavis 3rd. Durant got a 1st place vote and LeBron a 2nd (from the same guy, who voted Griffin 3rd). Strange award.
   485. Mark S. is bored Posted: April 23, 2014 at 02:19 PM (#4692183)
Dragic, MIP. Stephenson 2nd, ADavis 3rd. Durant got a 1st place vote and LeBron a 2nd (from the same guy, who voted Griffin 3rd). Strange award.


Dragic PER by year
SEASON PER
'08-'09 9.83
'09-'10 14.87
'10-'11 13.21
'11-'12 18.03
'12-'13 17.52
'13-'14 21.43

I see a pattern of stepforward, hold, stepforward and I wonder if we've seen the best of Dragic yet.
   486. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 23, 2014 at 02:49 PM (#4692213)
I think I can explain the slight step backward in 10-11 with one link, and note that it took him about a year to recover.
   487. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 23, 2014 at 02:56 PM (#4692224)
He's gonna be 28 next season, so this is probably as good as he's going to get. Pretty darn good, right? If he holds this a few years, he's going make a lot of money when this contract ends in 2016.
   488. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 23, 2014 at 02:57 PM (#4692229)
I think I can explain the slight step backward in 10-11 with one link, and note that it took him about a year to recover.
Makes sense. Rose still hasn't recovered :-)
   489. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 03:08 PM (#4692249)
Quality dunk by Rose, but I don't see how Dragic loses too much face there. He doesn't get dunked on, he's comign from behind and the side and Rose doesn't even have to dunk over the one arm that is thrown up to defend. And maybe in real time it was different, but holy moley, that announcer is insufferable in that clip.
   490. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 23, 2014 at 03:16 PM (#4692259)
holy moley, that announcer is insufferable in that clip.

Enjoy (haven't posted that in a while).
   491. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 03:40 PM (#4692290)
why would a professional sports announcer ever 'wooooo'
   492. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 04:44 PM (#4692394)
[489] Agree to disagree, that dunk was awesome.
   493. Howling John Shade Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:37 PM (#4692513)

Also, being close to the water made no sense for an NBA arena, except as the dishonest centerpiece of a flimflam deal to move shoddily constructed condos. Mission Bay will be cheaper, but further from useful transit. I would prefer for the Warriors to stay in Oakland and ditch the Golden State non-sense. They're an Oakland team.
It will be interesting to see how they solve the transit issue. There's one MUNI line that runs there now, but it wont be enough. And the roads going in there seem perfectly designed for a traffic bottleneck. AT&T gets around the transportation problem by being a walkable distance from the Ferry building/BART. I think this might be just too far for that to be a viable option for most people.
   494. Mark S. is bored Posted: April 23, 2014 at 08:12 PM (#4692658)
As long as we're talking about Dragic, I'll post my two favorite Dragic videos:

Insane Dragic layup vs the Lakers - 2010 Western Conf finals

Dragic single handedly destroying the Spurs - 2010 Western Conf semi-finals. Dragic scores 26 of the Suns 44 points as they outscore the Spurs 44-27 over the final 14 minutes
   495. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 23, 2014 at 08:12 PM (#4692660)
The Heat are quite talented. The Bobcats play hard, but not so talented. No news really.
   496. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 23, 2014 at 09:37 PM (#4692749)
Bobcats claw to within a couple thanks to some good grindy work from Jefferson, but wild jacks by CDR and Kemba basically put an end to that (barring some sort of miracle finish).
   497. sardonic Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:03 PM (#4692859)
It will be interesting to see how they solve the transit issue. There's one MUNI line that runs there now, but it wont be enough. And the roads going in there seem perfectly designed for a traffic bottleneck. AT&T gets around the transportation problem by being a walkable distance from the Ferry building/BART. I think this might be just too far for that to be a viable option for most people.


Supposedly the new Central Subway, which will connect the Caltrain station to Union Square via 4th St (and the Powell BART stop) will be complete by then. They are certainly working a lot on it based on all the construction on and around 4th right now, including shutting off one side of the alley I live on (for what eventually will be a stop).
   498. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 24, 2014 at 12:39 AM (#4692901)
Charles Barkley is always fun, but his analysis has been great so far this postseason.
   499. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 24, 2014 at 10:07 AM (#4693047)
I'm starting to think that the Bulls might have made a mistake by trading Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas...
   500. andrewberg Posted: April 24, 2014 at 11:59 AM (#4693165)
I'm starting to think that the Bulls might have made a mistake by trading Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas...


Don't rush to judgment.
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