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Thursday, April 03, 2014

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2014

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about, which I forgot.

Have posts been building up inside you?

The District Attorney Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:26 PM | 2387 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   801. rr Posted: April 29, 2014 at 03:56 PM (#4696896)
Cue the Magic used 'V' as a puppeteer to seize control of Clippers conspiracy


--

Already out there--a guy at a Lakers site linked to Steve Sailer musing about that very scenario.
   802. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 29, 2014 at 04:04 PM (#4696904)
Back on topic, good punishment from a league perspective though not in any sort of fair of just one (as noted above). I don't feel too much pity for him though.

That's my take.
   803. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 29, 2014 at 04:21 PM (#4696927)
Ditto.

Jim Gray says:

"I just spoke with Donald Sterling on the telephone, just moments ago," Gray said. "He is unaware of what is going to happen to him. He has not been notified. He also said he really didn't want to comment on the record. However, the team is not for sale, and he will not be selling the team."


It'll be interesting to see if the league owners vote to completely oust him, and then how the court stuff would go.
   804. Howling John Shade Posted: April 29, 2014 at 04:28 PM (#4696938)
How does it work if he's forced to sell? Does he get to choose the buyer? I would assume so. I wonder if that hurts the chances of a Johnson fronted group...
   805. Manny Coon Posted: April 29, 2014 at 04:49 PM (#4696957)
I'm curious about the following unintended consequence: in order to minimize the chances of Sterling succeeding in a court challenge, it seems to me the NBA will have to open the sale up to all potential bidders... not just local ones. Which would presumably lead straight to the resurrection of the Seattle SuperSonics by one of the strangest routes imaginable.


I don't see the team being moved, LA is just too big and rich of a market and there is no shortage LA billionaires and/or faceless finance groups like Guggenheim that would pay well to keep the team in LA. The Clippers made a lot money even when were terrible every year and they are making even more now.
   806. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: April 29, 2014 at 05:02 PM (#4696969)
Already out there--a guy at a Lakers site linked to Steve Sailer musing about that very scenario.
No surprise Steve Sailer would get involved in a race-related story.

But Sailer's take, that's the surprise.
   807. steagles Posted: April 29, 2014 at 05:04 PM (#4696971)
How does it work if he's forced to sell? Does he get to choose the buyer? I would assume so. I wonder if that hurts the chances of a Johnson fronted group...
he's been banned from all interaction with the team, so my guess would be that if the league forces a sale, they will also be the ones who determine the winning bidder.
   808. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 29, 2014 at 05:06 PM (#4696975)
he's been banned from all interaction with the team, so my guess would be that if the league forces a sale, they will also be the ones who determine the winning bidder.

That's kinda what already happens anyway. The league/owners/commish always have a pretty big say under normal circumstances.

---

Based on twitter/official team statements, it appears the league already has the 3/4 majority to force him to sell.
   809. andrewberg Posted: April 29, 2014 at 05:49 PM (#4697018)
1. It seems like Silver went for the maximum penalty that he could assess without immediately legal blowback, and that is probably a good PR move for him and the league. It is also probably a fair consequence for Sterling given his history.

2. This instance is not the first time that organized labor forced a member of management out for the perception of discriminatory/retaliatory behavior that the manager created, nor will it be the last.

3. I will be interested to see if the league goes to great lengths within the law to push Sterling to sell. I would imagine that leverage would include freezing them out of all but the minimum requirement of things like national TV and promotional features, as well as players and front office staff forcing their way out.

4. As a few people have noted, the plantation owner mentality he expressed in talking about being the one who puts food on players' plates seems like the most damaging statement. It hits at a constant sore spot for the league and undermines the business model in which the players don't get the power commensurate with their contribution to the productivity. For that reason and others, I think it makes sense to hold Sterling and other owners to a higher standard than players or coaches. I also don't think there's a precise analog to the statement that a player could say- how would a player advocate a version of the league that verges on slavery and imply that he works to create it?

5. If Sterling ends up selling to a group fronted by Magic Johnson, does that mean he would have to appear in public and have his picture taken with him? That would be the best possible ending.
   810. Howling John Shade Posted: April 29, 2014 at 06:31 PM (#4697036)
As a few people have noted, the plantation owner mentality he expressed in talking about being the one who puts food on players' plates seems like the most damaging statement. It hits at a constant sore spot for the league and undermines the business model in which the players don't get the power commensurate with their contribution to the productivity.
Yeah, I think that is why this comment got such a reaction when his previous forays into racism didn't. He reminded lots of NBA players that, while they're paid incredibly well, they are still playing for the benefit of rich white men who may or may not think of them as lesser/property. And the sort of helpless situation that the Clippers players/coaches found themselves in reminded the players that they don't have a great deal of freedom to change that situation. I thought this exchange on Grantland explored those feelings pretty well.
   811. smileyy Posted: April 29, 2014 at 06:46 PM (#4697044)
But say something racist, after a history of saying racist and misogynistic behavior, in a private conversation, and you get the biggest penalty in the history of the league? Basically this is a punishment for making the NBA look bad. Sterling was guilty of that decades ago and no one ever cared.


I'm not sure if you mean being a racist slumlord, or putting a shitty quality team on the floor. But either way it seems clear that you can be a bad person, you can put a bad team on the floor, and that's ok. But you can't be an owner and try to destroy the NBA in the most mediapathic possible way.

Sterling brought his racism across the line into the NBA, saying that he didn't want a broad swath of NBA fans to attend games -- and the characteristics of that broad swath happen to be shared by many NBA players. That is downright catastrophic for the league to drive fans and players away.
   812. smileyy Posted: April 29, 2014 at 06:47 PM (#4697045)
IOW, this isn't a personal morality issue. Its a giant business issue that's driven by a morality issue.
   813. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: April 29, 2014 at 06:53 PM (#4697049)
If the Clippers somehow moved to Seattle, I don't know how I'd feel about that. I was kind of annoyed when they left San Diego. I mean, not as annoyed as I'd have been if they were a good team, but still.
   814. andrewberg Posted: April 29, 2014 at 07:51 PM (#4697067)
812- I don't think business/morality are at odds in this situation. It is a business issue precisely because it is such a widely held moral. It reminds me of how people in Arizona did not want to implement that anti-gay law for fear that it would cost them the Super Bowl.

813- There is way too much money in LA for them to leave.
   815. steagles Posted: April 29, 2014 at 08:54 PM (#4697103)
we've talked about this before, but if you add up the career earnings of former teammates kevin garnett (315 million), paul pierce (184), ray allen (184) and shaquille o'neil (292), that's pretty close to what the clippers are worth, before accounting for the various endorsement deals they've also earned money from.

i know it doesn't work that way, but there's no reason they couldn't leverage their assets to take out the necessary loans to purchase a team.
   816. Maxwn Posted: April 29, 2014 at 09:13 PM (#4697115)
Damn it, the OKC/MEM game is on nbatv? That is annoying.
   817. Publius Publicola Posted: April 29, 2014 at 09:23 PM (#4697130)
Rush Limbaugh came up with a pretty good conspiracy theory today, that this gold digger is in cahoots with Magic to force the sale of the Clippers so his group could swoop in and grab them up.
   818. theboyqueen Posted: April 29, 2014 at 09:37 PM (#4697141)
While there might be some justice in Sterling being forced to sell the team to Magic, the thought of him owning the Clippers just seems wrong.
   819. theboyqueen Posted: April 29, 2014 at 09:38 PM (#4697142)
It would be like Derek Jeter buying the Mets.
   820. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 29, 2014 at 09:44 PM (#4697150)
That Limbaugh theory... it's my new Favorite Thing Ever. It's so grand, I can't even look right at it. So beautiful!
   821. rr Posted: April 29, 2014 at 09:44 PM (#4697152)
NBA Constitution, Article 13:

ARTICLE 13

TERMINATION OF OWNERSHIP OR MEMBERSHIP

The Membership of a Member or the interest of any Owner may be terminated by a vote of three fourths (3/4) of the Board of Governors if the Member or Owner shall do or suffer any of the following:

(a) Willfully violate any of the provisions of the Constitution and By-Laws, resolutions, or agreements of the Association.

(b) Transfer or attempt to transfer a Membership or an interest in a Member without complying with the provisions of Article 5.

(c) Fail to pay any dues or other indebtedness owing to the Association within thirty (30) days after Written Notice from the Commissioner of default in such payment.

(d) Fail or refuse to fulfill its contractual obligations to the Association, its Members, Players, or any other third party in such a way as to affect the Association or its Members adversely. (e) Wager or countenance wagering by its officers or employees on any game in which a Team operated by a Member of the Association participates.

(f) Willfully permit open betting, pool selling, or any other form of gambling upon any premises owned, leased, or otherwise controlled by the Member or an Owner, except, subject to Article 8(a), for gambling activities that are lawful in the applicable jurisdiction and do not involve in any way, directly or indirectly, gambling with respect to any aspect of the Association’s games, events, property, players, or other personnel.

(g) Offer, agree, conspire, or attempt to lose or control the score of any game participated in by a Team operated by a Member of the Association, or fail to suspend immediately any officer or any Player or other employee of the Member who shall be found guilty, in a court of law or in any hearing sanctioned by this Constitution and By- Laws, of offering, agreeing, conspiring, or attempting to lose or control the score of any such game or of being interested in any pool or wager on any game in which a Team operated by a Member of the Association participates.

(h) Disband its Team during the Season, dissolve its business, or cease its operation.

(i) Willfully fail to present its Team at the time and place it is scheduled to play in an Exhibition, Regular Season, or Playoff Game.

(j) Willfully misrepresent any material fact contained in its application for Membership in the Association


http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233171/NBA-Constitution-Excerpt-On-Termination-Of-Ownership
   822. smileyy Posted: April 29, 2014 at 09:46 PM (#4697154)
Just because V. Stiviano threw him racist allez-oop passes didn't mean Sterling had to dunk them.
   823. Howling John Shade Posted: April 29, 2014 at 09:52 PM (#4697156)
   824. Publius Publicola Posted: April 29, 2014 at 10:02 PM (#4697162)
It may not be a conspiracy but if Sterling were forced to sell, and it looks like that's exactly what the plan is, then it's conceivable Magic could be at the center of an ownership group to buy them.

Or maybe he's already overextended with the Dodgers. Who knows.
   825. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: April 29, 2014 at 10:10 PM (#4697171)
Just a hunch, but guessing it took Silver 1/2 a second to draw same conclusion as to tonight's events in #823 had he not acted in the fashion he did today.
   826. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 29, 2014 at 10:30 PM (#4697177)
Bye-bye, Bulls.
   827. Kurt Posted: April 29, 2014 at 10:40 PM (#4697182)
Jeez, 69 points. Get ready for Carmelo.
   828. TerpNats Posted: April 29, 2014 at 10:42 PM (#4697184)
Remember, Magic's not the only NBA-related guy at Guggenheim. Stan Kasten was a Hawks exec for many years when they were a Turner property.

And congrats to the Wizards for advancing.
   829. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 29, 2014 at 10:49 PM (#4697187)
not hard care nba person but noticed the bulls scored 28 points in the second half

goodness
   830. rr Posted: April 29, 2014 at 11:03 PM (#4697192)
Yeah, I think this loss means it is more likely we will see Anthony and Mirotic in Chicago next year, although the Phil factor may keep Anthony in New York. I kind of like the Wizards--Ariza and Wall are personal favorites, and I like the semi-retro unis. So I am glad for them and their fans.

With no disrespect intended to Popovich, or to established good coaches, like Thibodeau, Rivers, and Carlisle; I also think this series is a small data point about talent and match-ups trumping the perceived value of coaching. Wittman has never been very well thought of and has a bad career record, and Thibodeau is one of the most respected coaches in the game.

Finally, if I ran Chicago, I would be talking to TT about easing up on the throttle some during the regular season next year.
   831. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2014 at 11:18 PM (#4697195)
Apparently the Warriors (and possibly the Clippers) were going to walk off the court at tip-off and refuse to play.


Wow. I mean, that would have broken ESPN, broken the internet. It would have been something that you hear about 20 years from now.

I struggle to believe that they would have gone through with it, but if so, wow, good for them.
   832. rr Posted: April 29, 2014 at 11:32 PM (#4697205)
Four-point play.

No timeouts for OKC.
   833. Kurt Posted: April 29, 2014 at 11:35 PM (#4697207)
With no disrespect intended to Popovich, or to established good coaches, like Thibodeau, Rivers, and Carlisle; I also think this series is a small data point about talent and match-ups trumping the perceived value of coaching. Wittman has never been very well thought of and has a bad career record, and Thibodeau is one of the most respected coaches in the game.


The one real knock on Wittman this year is the number of times the team came out flat - no way a team with this much talent should have lost to Philly, Milwaukee, Boston, Clevand twice, Detroit etc. Obviously that sort of thing isn't nearly as much of an issue in the playoffs.

Other than that I think he's done a good job. The offense moves the ball well, and they play hard on defense. It's an extremely unselfish team, which is mostly the players but he should get some credit for that too. I can't remember any player complaining about minutes or shots all year. Add in the development of Wall, and Wittman seems pretty underrated to me.
   834. Maxwn Posted: April 29, 2014 at 11:56 PM (#4697226)
The Grizzlies have a bad habit of running way too much prevent offense with a lead.
   835. rr Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:01 AM (#4697230)
Wittman seems pretty underrated to me.


His career record is 191-329, and this is the first winning season he has ever had--prior to this year, he had never even had a .400 winning percentage. He got fired at 4-19 in Minnesota after going 22-60 there the year before. His teams had never won more than 32 games in a season prior to this year. So, while a lot of that is not his fault, certainly, I think it is fair to say that when people think of the top 10 or so coaches in the NBA, they don't think of Wittman. Here is Pelton from a preseason chat:

Ryan (Las Vegas)

Who do you think is the first coach to get fired this year?
Kevin Pelton (1:12 PM)

Not a lot of obvious candidates for this morbid curiosity right now because there are so many new coaches. I think Randy Wittman probably is in the riskiest spot because he's not particularly established and the Wizards are hoping/expecting to compete for the playoffs. But I'm not sure how Emeka Okafor's injury changes that. Will it buy Wittman more time if the team starts slowly or does it make a slow start more likely and hurt him?


Meanwhile, Thibodeau is one of the guys Pelton talked about as being a very valuable as a coach when he was writing about that recently.

My point wasn't that Wittman is a clown--note that I said "perceived value" of coaching. The point was that talent and matchups are, IMO, almost always the trump card. YMMV.
   836. JJ1986 Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:04 AM (#4697232)
Joey Crawford is losing it about something.
   837. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:05 AM (#4697233)
Durant missed a free throw! THEY'RE NOT FOULING?
   838. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:06 AM (#4697234)
I wonder about that position with a 3.5 second differential. Could Memphis have dribbled it down until 1 on the shot clock and then thrown the ball as high as possible? Wouldn't it take 3.5 seconds to come down?
   839. nick swisher hygiene Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:06 AM (#4697235)
ref ices Durant?!
   840. tshipman Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:06 AM (#4697236)
Isn't that time for the Magic throw the ball up into the air play? Like you hold the ball until 2 seconds, then throw it up?
Is that no longer legal or something?

Edit: coke to Athletic Supporter
   841. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:07 AM (#4697238)
I'm surprised Memphis shot the ball with anything more than 2 seconds left in the game. Just throw it at the basket from anywhere.

Here we go.
   842. Maxwn Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:09 AM (#4697240)
sweet jesus what a close call
   843. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:09 AM (#4697241)
Wow.

0.1 seconds the difference between a stunning win and a heartbreaking loss.
   844. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:09 AM (#4697242)
Wow.
   845. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:09 AM (#4697243)
wowwwww what is this series I don't even
   846. rr Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:10 AM (#4697244)
I remember watching a HOU/POR game in Jan. or so that was very tight and saying here that the WC playoffs would have a lot of games like that.
   847. tshipman Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:10 AM (#4697245)
WOWOWOWOWOWOW.

This series is bananas.

The Grizzlies should totally have run the Magic throw the ball up play.
   848. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:26 AM (#4697252)
OKC is going to fire Brooks and hire SVG, right?
   849. Kurt Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:29 AM (#4697253)
His career record is 191-329, and this is the first winning season he has ever had--prior to this year, he had never even had a .400 winning percentage. He got fired at 4-19 in Minnesota after going 22-60 there the year before. His teams had never won more than 32 games in a season prior to this year. So, while a lot of that is not his fault, certainly, I think it is fair to say that when people think of the top 10 or so coaches in the NBA, they don't think of Wittman.


Right, I'm not saying he's top ten or anything like that either. I think the general perception is that he's a borderline clown, and he seems okay to me. For this team at least.
   850. rr Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:40 AM (#4697257)
Kurt,

Indeed. I think most NBA coaches can probably do pretty well in the right situation. A lot of Lakers fans think MDA is in the clown category now, but clearly his approach can work in the right context.

Maybe it is adaptability that characterizes the top guys--that and balancing authority and communication.
   851. Maxwn Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:41 AM (#4697259)
OKC is going to fire Brooks and hire SVG, right?

I think it would be kind of funny if they hired Hollins myself.
   852. rr Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:44 AM (#4697260)
OKC hasn't lost yet, although as I said I think Brooks will get fired if they lose to Memphis.
   853. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: April 30, 2014 at 01:02 AM (#4697265)
I wonder about that position with a 3.5 second differential. Could Memphis have dribbled it down until 1 on the shot clock and then thrown the ball as high as possible? Wouldn't it take 3.5 seconds to come down?

If the ball doesn't hit the rim it's a shot-clock violation and the clock reverts to 3.5 seconds. To run out the clock, you'd need a Fisher-style rainmaker shot that hit the rim and bounced up.
   854. Rob_Wood Posted: April 30, 2014 at 03:13 AM (#4697281)

Did anybody figure out what wigged out Joey Crawford?
   855. rr Posted: April 30, 2014 at 03:16 AM (#4697282)
Did anybody figure out what wigged out Joey Crawford?


--

All the attention that Sterling is getting. Joey wants the focus back where it belongs.
   856. Kurt Posted: April 30, 2014 at 07:54 AM (#4697292)
Noah played with an injured knee for the second half of the season.

With hindsight, I wonder how the Nets are feeling about tanking to get Toronto-Miami rather than Chicago-Indiana/Atlanta.
   857. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 30, 2014 at 08:10 AM (#4697293)
[856] Don't think it changes anything for them. Not saying I agree, but I think their reasoning was that they are going to have to beat MIA to get to the Finals and since they are so old it's better to face them sooner rather than later.
   858. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 30, 2014 at 09:27 AM (#4697319)
Yeah, I think this loss means it is more likely we will see Anthony and Mirotic in Chicago next year,

That seems like the dream/best case scenario. To get both, NYK would probably have to accept Boozer in a S&T or Melo would have to take a huge pay cut (he could sign as an UFA for a slightly less dramatic pay cut, but that would mean the Bulls couldn't also add Mirotic).

I've said before it's a big offseason for the Bulls. They cannot just make minor changes around the edges and pray for Rose's health and call it a day.

Finally, if I ran Chicago, I would be talking to TT about easing up on the throttle some during the regular season next year.

I think they've tried, to no avail. It's the price of doing business with him. The front office didn't make it easier on him by having such a thin roster this year (done mostly to avoid the tax). It's hard to argue with the overachieving, but it's also hard to ignore the injury affects and worn-downedness come end of the season every year. It's easy to point at Rose's injury, plus other various other ones, as reasons for seasons ending like they do and it's hard to exactly pinpoint the impact of TT's style on that. Long story short, I totally agree and have said before if TT gets run out of Chicago it's likely going to be because of this.
   859. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: April 30, 2014 at 09:41 AM (#4697324)
Did anybody figure out what wigged out Joey Crawford


SportsCenter said it was about the scoreboard not showing both teams in the bonus.
   860. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 30, 2014 at 09:44 AM (#4697327)
Did anybody figure out what wigged out Joey Crawford

SportsCenter said it was about the scoreboard not showing both teams in the bonus.


Primer RT:
John E. Hoover ?@johnehoover 7h
Pool reporter's quotes from Joey Crawford were sent to #NBA office, but will not be made public tonight. "Sensitive" issue, I'm told.


While Silver's on this power high and hot streak, he should finally get rid of Crawford.
   861. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 30, 2014 at 09:47 AM (#4697329)
How does it work if he's forced to sell? Does he get to choose the buyer? I would assume so. I wonder if that hurts the chances of a Johnson fronted group...

This Lowe article is unsurprisingly a must read:

And once the votes are in, league sources say the NBA, Silver, and the league’s owners will control the franchise sale process — not Sterling. The league would vet bidders and make the final call on who gets to run the franchise next. The exact details of the process are unclear, but front-office and ownership sources across the league think the Clippers have a real chance to fetch the NBA’s first $1 billion sales price.


Then he goes on to talk about the Warriors problems (not sure how much of this has been posted here yet):

The Warriors in the last six weeks demoted one assistant and fired another, and ESPN.com’s Chris Broussard today reported that the team fired Darren Erman after learning Erman had recorded at least one coaches’ meeting. Multiple league sources confirmed the gist of Broussard’s report, and that Erman was concerned Mark Jackson and other coaches loyal to Jackson were insulting Erman to other players behind Erman’s back.

Jackson made a show of firing Scalabrine in front of players and other coaches, but he had no real grounds, and the front office made Jackson find a compromise, per a source familiar with the matter: demoting Scalabrine to the D-League. In addition, Jackson has asked that Jerry West, a high-level adviser in Golden State, not attend most practices and team activities, sources say.

The tension with Erman got weird. Midseason, the team moved Erman’s parking spot to a less convenient place, likely at the behest of Jackson or one of Jackson’s allies on the staff, per multiple sources familiar with the matter. They began changing his duties in strange ways.
   862. Kurt Posted: April 30, 2014 at 09:52 AM (#4697333)
[856] Don't think it changes anything for them. Not saying I agree, but I think their reasoning was that they are going to have to beat MIA to get to the Finals and since they are so old it's better to face them sooner rather than later.


It sure hasn't worked out. If they even make it to Miami, the Heat will have been resting for a week.
   863. nick swisher hygiene Posted: April 30, 2014 at 10:27 AM (#4697357)
hey, is it too early to start a dumb alpha dog narrative about Durant?

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/10859134/thunder-grizzlies-game-5-thriller

"A dude who wants to be called 'the Servant' is never gonna........."--ok, he doesn't say THAT, but--pretty close.

   864. Booey Posted: April 30, 2014 at 10:28 AM (#4697358)
The Memphis/OKC series has been awesome. 4 straight OT games? I remember hearing in 1999 that the Jazz and Kings set a record by taking each other to OT 5 times in one season (all 3 regular season matchups, plus twice more in the playoffs), but this is cooler since they're all in the playoffs and consecutive. Crazy sauce.
   865. nick swisher hygiene Posted: April 30, 2014 at 10:31 AM (#4697364)
Durant needs to work on his Dirk Nowitzki #### over the offseason, though: there's just no way a great scorer should be so bewildered by the problem of being guarded by somebody half a foot shorter than him...

   866. Spivey Posted: April 30, 2014 at 10:35 AM (#4697367)
Thank god OKC/MEM was on NBATV and CHI/WAS was on TNT/ESPN (I forget which).

Do markets really trump good basketball and one of the league's most marketable stars?
   867. Spivey Posted: April 30, 2014 at 10:37 AM (#4697369)
Durant needs to work on his Dirk Nowitzki #### over the offseason, though: there's just no way a great scorer should be so bewildered by the problem of being guarded by somebody half a foot shorter than him...

True, though I give Durant more of a pass than LeBron/Dirk, because he's much weaker. Tony Allen is probably stronger than Durant. Dirk was uncomfortable posting up against guys he was definitely stronger than.
   868. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: April 30, 2014 at 10:47 AM (#4697379)
Acknowledging that the Western Conference is much tougher than the East, the relative lack of Will Kevin Durant Ever Win A Title drives home LeBron's point from earlier this year that the pressure won't switch to KD until LeBron leaves. KD right now is the same age LeBron was in his final CLE season when the media was putting the finishing touches on his legacy as a choker/quitter.
   869. Manny Coon Posted: April 30, 2014 at 10:54 AM (#4697388)
None of the Mark Jackson stuff surprises me, he seems like a total two face sleaze. His call to action for Clippers controversy was for Clippers fans to boycott the game because you know that would never help Warriors. Then likes to call out Griffin for being a flopper than has thug commit a flagrant foul against him every other game or so (nice choke last night Speights!), now it comes out he treats his staff like crap, but of course if you listen to him talk about himself he's not but a good, honorable man of god.

Jackson quote: "the biggest statement would be playing and pouring our hearts out into something we dreamt about doing and doing it in a way where, no matter what color we are, we do this with class and dignity and integrity, and the evidence would clearly dictate that."

I'm sure you do #######.
   870. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2014 at 11:35 AM (#4697425)
I've assumed the fired assistant was entirely at fault until the Celtics immediately snapped him up yesterday. Not that the Celtics are incapable of making mistakes or anything, but it seems like a guy who did what he did would have a really difficult time finding a job so quickly without some kind of compelling justification.
   871. andrewberg Posted: April 30, 2014 at 11:58 AM (#4697445)
None of the Mark Jackson stuff surprises me, he seems like a total two face sleaze. His call to action for Clippers controversy was for Clippers fans to boycott the game because you know that would never help Warriors. Then likes to call out Griffin for being a flopper than has thug commit a flagrant foul against him every other game or so (nice choke last night Speights!), now it comes out he treats his staff like crap, but of course if you listen to him talk about himself he's not but a good, honorable man of god.


I had that same reaction. Very opportunistic.

Durant needs to work on his Dirk Nowitzki #### over the offseason, though: there's just no way a great scorer should be so bewildered by the problem of being guarded by somebody half a foot shorter than him...


On the other hand, Tony Allen is probably the best perimeter player in the league. Durant lit up Lee and Prince- who are both pretty good perimeter defenders and much longer- when they were on him. I think focusing on Allen's height misses what makes him exceptional.

I also think Marc Gasol is almost as good as Durant when you consider every aspect of the game. And Kendrick Perkins is almost as bad as Durant is good. And OKC running PNRs that with Allen/Lee or Allen/Prince as the defenders accomplishes almost nothing. Brooks is an idiot.
   872. rr Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:18 PM (#4697463)
IANAL, but after looking over Article 13, and taking into account some other factors, I am not convinced that actually forcing Sterling to sell will be an easy thing to accomplish, from a legal POV. Forcing a guy to divest himself of property (even at a massive profit) that he bought with his own money is different than kicking him out of a club that has a set of privately-enforced bylaws. The parts of Article 13 that I saw talk about stuff like not paying your bills, not showing up for games, throwing games, lying on apps and docs, gambling, etc. The Clippers are winning, making a ton of money, and even have a black guy as coach, so Sterling's being a racist scumbag doesn't seem to be trump card to me in terms of forcing a sale.

I get that membership in the club is tied to ownership of said property. It is not like the NBA will be forcing Sterling to sell his mansion, his cars, his real estate, etc. and I get that Silver has broad powers to act in the "best interests of the game." And, of course, from a practical standpoint, if Sterling is still the owner, Rivers may walk, Paul may loudly demand to be traded, many FAs, even 3rd and 4th tier guys with limited options, will look elsewhere etc. etc.

But while I could be very wrong, based on what I can see now, I think if he wants to, Sterling can fight the NBA legally on a forced sale.

To be clear, philosophically I have no sympathy for Sterling and have no major issue with his being forced to sell. I am just opining about the legal aspect.
   873. sardonic Posted: April 30, 2014 at 12:26 PM (#4697470)
From someone who has watched the Warriors all year, Mark Jackson is a clown. Even just looking at this series, how can he not see that David Lee is just not going to be able to take Deandre Jordan in the post on an ISO? How many more times does he need to get his shot blocked? It's only happened roughly 9,000 times already. How can you coach your team in such a way where Steph Curry has three first half shots (granted, they were trapping him) but you are calling Jermaine O'Neal ISOs?

If you go to the games, you'll notice that during time outs he actually spends most of the time wandering around the free throw line area of the court like he's lost. Eventually an assistant will go up to him, and he'll spend the last 30 seconds saying something to the team. I don't think I've noticed a single meaningful in-game adjustment since Mike Malone left, and apparently his between game adjustments have to come from his players.

He's good at getting the players to like him, and that's it.
   874. theboyqueen Posted: April 30, 2014 at 01:19 PM (#4697517)
While I don't really understand their offensive philosophy at all, this team without Bogut losing to the Clippers in a fairly close-fought series is hardly a disastrous consequence. This Clippers team, the way Deandre and Blake are playing now, with Reddick back, with Chris Paul running things, may well be the best team in the league. With everything that's happened, nobody seems to be talking about just how good this team is when everything is flowing well.

They way they are trapping Curry has really destroyed the Warriors offensive flow. By cutting off all his angles they seem to have figured out the only way to keep Curry from getting his shot off, and he has a tendency to telegraph passes and the Clippers have been all over this. And Deandre's rim protection has been unlike anything I've seen in quite some time.

Who is the second best player in the league: Durant, Paul, or someone else? I vote Paul.
   875. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 30, 2014 at 02:28 PM (#4697599)
I've long questioned Marc Stein's rumors or sources when it comes to the Bulls after he spent 2 years saying the Bulls were going to sign end of his career McGrady, but this does scare me:

There are only 10 amnesty-eligible players left in the entire NBA. And eight of them realistically face zero threat of being released by their teams via the amnesty provision this summer: Atlanta's Al Horford, Boston's Rajon Rondo, Chicago's Noah, Memphis' Mike Conley and Zach Randolph, Oklahoma City's Kevin Durant and Nick Collison and San Antonio's Tony Parker.

Which leaves only two players on the entire NBA map who still have to worry about the A word.

The Thunder's Kendrick Perkins. And Boozer.

But here's the thing: You continue to hear rumbles that Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf is adamantly against the idea of setting Boozer free via amnesty, even though the 32-year-old is finally poised to enter the final year of his contract, valued in 2014-15 at $16.8 million.

Sources briefed on Chicago's thinking say the Bulls are going to do everything they can to try to find a trading partner for Boozer before seriously considering the amnesty option.

Bear in mind that Chicago essentially has until July 15 to craft a deal that finds a new home for Boozer after a season in which he lost much of his fourth-quarter run to Taj Gibson. The NBA's amnesty window this summer runs through July 10-16.
   876. Howling John Shade Posted: April 30, 2014 at 02:30 PM (#4697605)
Mark Jackson sounds like a petty tyrant and he's not a very good offensive coach (though he does deserve some credit for their defensive improvement). That said, I think it will be hard for the Warriors to fire him. The players seem to love him and this was the team's best season (by regular season wins) in decades. It will be interesting to see what Lacob does.
   877. Dingbat_Charlie Posted: April 30, 2014 at 02:31 PM (#4697607)
This Wizards team is a joy after all the years of losing and/or knuckleheads. I don't expect them to win the next round, but anything from here on is gravy. Early in the season I asked this thread if I'd like Gortat. To those who said I would: you were right!
   878. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 30, 2014 at 02:46 PM (#4697618)
875 - what should worry you more, moses, is that that's not inconsistent with what others have said as well.

yeah, gortat's fun.
   879. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4697644)
Early in the season I asked this thread if I'd like Gortat. To those who said I would: you were right!


He's a really skilled offensive big man, and there are very, very few of them in the league right now. They're great at the pick and roll with him (is there easily available stats on that sort of thing? Efficiency on P&R plays?).

Makes me wonder what Gortat is going to get on the market, and from which team. Excellent timing on his free agency.
   880. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: April 30, 2014 at 03:34 PM (#4697692)
Makes me wonder what Gortat is going to get on the market, and from which team. Excellent timing on his free agency.


Total guess: Cavs, 4/40?
   881. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2014 at 03:49 PM (#4697715)
Total guess: Cavs, 4/40?


I think someone will pay more than that. He seems like he's got 4/56, something like that, coming to him.
   882. Jimmy P Posted: April 30, 2014 at 03:57 PM (#4697726)
Marc Stein is saying that Reinsdorf wants to trade Boozer and not amnesty him.

This is why I didn't think all the amnesty Boozer talk was a slam dunk. Jerry hates paying people that work for him. I can't imagine he wants to pay people not to work.
   883. Manny Coon Posted: April 30, 2014 at 03:58 PM (#4697729)
Seems like the Wizards would want to pay to keep Gortat, he's been a big part of their success and Nene isn't getting any younger or healthier, and they play reasonably well together as well. Ariza being a free agent at the same time puts them in a tough spot though, he's been important for them as well and they already have bunch of money locked into Webster and Porter.
   884. Dingbat_Charlie Posted: April 30, 2014 at 04:11 PM (#4697746)
I hope they keep him. Not just for my sake: my 3 yo daughter loves him, and runs around repeating his name when she sees him on tv.
   885. Kurt Posted: April 30, 2014 at 04:14 PM (#4697747)
Huh. My daughter (11) *loves* Wall, but Gortat is her second favorite player. So obviously there are demographic reasons to keep him.
   886. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 30, 2014 at 04:23 PM (#4697759)
Marc Stein is saying that Reinsdorf wants to trade Boozer and not amnesty him.

This is why I didn't think all the amnesty Boozer talk was a slam dunk. Jerry hates paying people that work for him. I can't imagine he wants to pay people not to work.


See post 875/878. All things being equal, it might be *better* to trade him. Depending on the contract coming back. Though it's not likely that he has any trade value, even as an expiring deal.

Seems like the Wizards would want to pay to keep Gortat, he's been a big part of their success and Nene isn't getting any younger or healthier, and they play reasonably well together as well.

Some of the criticisms of the trade initially were that the Wiz were going to feel pressured to overpay to keep him. And yes, 4/$56 sounds like the right neighborhood.
   887. sardonic Posted: April 30, 2014 at 04:31 PM (#4697766)
Mark Jackson sounds like a petty tyrant and he's not a very good offensive coach (though he does deserve some credit for their defensive improvement). That said, I think it will be hard for the Warriors to fire him. The players seem to love him and this was the team's best season (by regular season wins) in decades. It will be interesting to see what Lacob does.


I agree that the players would make it hard, and agree that losing a close series against the Clippers is not the end of the world, but to me the improvement is a Vinny Del Negro or Art Howe situation. It's not hard to see the specific things he's doing that just don't make sense:

But Jackson has continued to play five-man bench units, and the Dubs’ offense, mediocre all season, goes through stretches in which it is over-reliant on isolation. A full 52 percent of Golden State’s possessions this season ended after two or fewer passes, the highest such share in the league, per SportVU data provided to Grantland.


How that can be the case with a willing distributor at PG and probably the best passing frontline in the league from Bogut to Lee to Iguodala is both baffling and eternally frustrating. That he's still playing 5-man bench units that get crushed in the playoffs or takes the offense out of its flow to repeatedly post up Klay Thompson against Chris Paul or Harrison Barnes against JJ Redick is maddening.
   888. kpelton Posted: April 30, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4697770)
"If you go to the games, you'll notice that during time outs he actually spends most of the time wandering around the free throw line area of the court like he's lost."

If you like him, this is "thinking deeply" or "lost in thought."
   889. Manny Coon Posted: April 30, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4697773)
Between the beard, goblin tattoo and giant size, Gortat reminds me of character from a fantasy movie. He and Tim Duncan could go fight the dreadlord Nikola Pekovic (with his fabulous knight on a pile skulls tattoo).
   890. Manny Coon Posted: April 30, 2014 at 04:40 PM (#4697779)
I agree that the players would make it hard, and agree that losing a close series against the Clippers is not the end of the world


I don't think the series is as close at looks and they are lucky it isn't already over. Game one was basically gifted to them with Griffin being limited to 19 minutes, game 4 the Clippers were clearly distracted by the Sterling nonsense.
   891. sardonic Posted: April 30, 2014 at 05:02 PM (#4697797)
I don't think the series is as close at looks and they are lucky it isn't already over. Game one was basically gifted to them with Griffin being limited to 19 minutes, game 4 the Clippers were clearly distracted by the Sterling nonsense.


Agreed, I was trying to be as charitable as I could toward Jackson.
   892. Howling John Shade Posted: April 30, 2014 at 05:12 PM (#4697809)

How that can be the case with a willing distributor at PG and probably the best passing frontline in the league from Bogut to Lee to Iguodala is both baffling and eternally frustrating. That he's still playing 5-man bench units that get crushed in the playoffs or takes the offense out of its flow to repeatedly post up Klay Thompson against Chris Paul or Harrison Barnes against JJ Redick is maddening.
I wouldn't be upset if he was fired. As you say, most of the improvement of the team is probably independent of Jackson and I think he's clearly holding them back offensively. The substitution patterns are infuriating and have been all season. And the Warriors bench unit is just a terrible offensive group. Crawford, Speights and O'Neal are anathema to ball movement (and Barnes often is as well, though it's from indecision not selfishness).

But I don't think there's pressure to fire him coming from many of the fans. And I think that they better have a relatively big name replacement lined up if they want to prevent a mini-revolt from the players.
   893. theboyqueen Posted: April 30, 2014 at 05:13 PM (#4697811)
I don't think the series is as close at looks and they are lucky it isn't already over.


I completely agree with this but I think it's hard to blame Jackson. Steph Curry's performance yesterday was inexplicably passive, and their best option at center at this point seems to be Draymond Green. The fact that any of these games are even close is amazing to me.
   894. Jimmy P Posted: April 30, 2014 at 05:25 PM (#4697821)
See post 875/878. All things being equal, it might be *better* to trade him. Depending on the contract coming back. Though it's not likely that he has any trade value, even as an expiring deal.


Sorry, Moses, my reading of the full thread has been spotty.

My worry is that (most) teams have finally figured out that cap space is only valuable if you're a) winning already or b) live somewhere stars want to live. Expirings aren't near as valuable as they used to be. And, I think to really get a value player back, they'd have to include the surplus of picks they've stocked up. That could be worth it if the player is good, but if they get a second-tier star and have to give up a lot of picks AND Boozer, I'm not so sure.
   895. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 30, 2014 at 05:27 PM (#4697822)
I completely agree with this but I think it's hard to blame Jackson. Steph Curry's performance yesterday was inexplicably passive, and their best option at center at this point seems to be Draymond Green.
Is it at all possible for Golden State to make some move for Asik or Gortat? I ask, payrolls and salaries unknown.
   896. theboyqueen Posted: April 30, 2014 at 05:34 PM (#4697829)
You mean for the playoffs? Because Bogut is signed for at least a couple more years.
   897. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: April 30, 2014 at 05:36 PM (#4697832)
   898. theboyqueen Posted: April 30, 2014 at 05:52 PM (#4697837)
What about bringing George Karl back to Golden State?
   899. sardonic Posted: April 30, 2014 at 05:55 PM (#4697842)
I completely agree with this but I think it's hard to blame Jackson. Steph Curry's performance yesterday was inexplicably passive


Man, if only there was someone in the Warriors org who might be able to help Curry get untracked, perhaps someone who could make some adjustments in their offensive sets to deal with the trap. If only.
   900. King Mekong Posted: April 30, 2014 at 06:55 PM (#4697879)
flippity floppity who?
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