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EDIT: I actually have more questions about the BOS angle. What do you do with a Rondo, Bledsoe, Bradley G rotation?
That's right, but if Paul's not healthy, then they're not winning with either KG or Bledsoe. The Clips need help at the guard spot, and trading Bledsoe doesn't.
They only need help at G because Paul isn't healthy though, right?
Of course, Paul isn't re-signed yet, and his long-term health is in question, which are probably the top two reasons you don't make the trade.
The real gung ho move would be to somehow get both Pierce and Garnett (which would also make the trade more amenable to KG, probably). But I'm not sure how the Clippers manage to make that happen. You could get the salaries to work by including a team with cap room (Houston, e.g.), and sending a draft pick their way. But is Bledsoe alone worth both Pierce and Garnett to Boston?* Possibly not. So then Ainge would demand another pick and/or player, and it would all get very complicated.
I do think Garnett has major Rasheed-to-Detroit potential. He could put some team out west over the top.
* As for what Boston does with Bradley, Bledsoe, and Rondo: trades one of them, probably, though there wouldn't be any hurry, considering how long Rondo's out.
[Edited for J-Teeth]
Also not sure Houston has a player who makes it worthwhile from Boston's perspective.
Pierce + Garnet would be $29 million (prorated) this season and $27 million next year. That's a lot of cash for teams to have to match to pull off a trade.
Probably Wilcox. Or they get LAC to throw in Turiaf or something. Either way, when Ainge is considering KG deals, "Who is my starting center from now until we probably miss the playoffs?" is hardly the most pressing question.
The Clippers have a really tough February, especially if Paul isn't healthy. Monday @ Washington is their 1st of 3 B-2-Bs. Also @NY/@PHil, and Houston/@LAL. Home games include Utah and San Antonio, also play @ Miami and @ Indiana. Could wind up going 6-7 or 5-8.
Golden State's schedule is also on the rough side. At Houston/OKC (B-2-B), at Memphis/Dallas (B-2-B), home games with Houston, San Antonio, @ Utah, @ Minnesota, @ Indiana/NY (B-2-B). Could go 5-7.
Denver has 4 home games, none easy but all winnable - Milwaukee, Chicago, Boston, LAL. Especially for a team that is pretty healthy and starting to learn to play very aggressive at home. Only 2 B-2-Bs, Toronto/Brooklyn and Washington/Charlotte. Also at Cleveland, Boston, Portland. Could easily go 8-4 or 9-3.
Memphis has the easiest schedule, B-2-Bs are Phoenix/@ Atlanta, and @Detroit/@Toronto. Lots of winnable home games (Orlando, Dallas, Sacramento, Phoenix). Even with the roster changes, should go 8-3 or 7-4.
Also, Denver is good enough to beat anybody in the NBA if they are having a good night.
Especially on their turf. Every home game is a winnable game for the Nuggs right now.
meanwhile, they actually have an interesting cast of guys at PF, non has panned into a reliable option yet, but most show enough that you want to at least give it this season or the next to figure out. Patterson has largely followed the team's trend of having some great games with a lot of meh to bad once in between. though his inability to grab rebounds even when he's going well is annoying. (fun fact, per game base Patterson grab about as much rebound as Parson and Harden, though per 36 he is slightly better but not by much.). last game was his on game again when he scored 12 strait in the 4th to help Houston avoid the embarrassment of losing to the Bobcats at home. part of that is the Bobcats having no one who can match his size... and them being the Bobcats.
I'd think aside from figuring out PF, they really need to figure out a better consistent working relationship between Lin and Harden, they probably should try to split the two's time more. they already is trying that, but that usually end up just being Harden being ran into the ground while Lin ending up with the 3rd team. there has to be a more optimal configuration then that.
still this team is fun to watch most of the time, that loss to the Nuggets was the typically hilarious both team with no defense and just try to beat each other's brain in type of game .
To pick up a thread from last month's thread, a JaVale for Josh Smith trade is interesting because it gives Atlanta one of the highest-upside players in the league who is actually movable and allows them to move Horford down to the 4; Denver also has a surplus of solid wings with midlevel-level contracts, and Atlanta could use one or two more (JaVale and Wilson Chandler together are also a viable salary match for trading purposes, for starters). Denver's rationale would be a bit more obvious: adding a passer, finisher (Andre Miller throwing lobs to J-Smoove? Yes, please.) and defender of that quality would make them a fascinating, dangerous team.
While Denver definitely wins this trade on talent, this presents lineup problems for Denver. They're already weak at the 5 and this would leave them with only Koufos and Mozgov as their centers. Faried can fill in in a pinch - his PER is the same at the 4 or the 5, but he doesn't have the size to guard 5's.
No trade clause (one of four(?) in the league). So, they can consider it, float the idea to KG, but it may not happen.
Smith's love for taking jumpers he can't make would also compound DEN's already hugely problematic, no one on our team can shoot issue.
EDIT: To clarify the issues I see with acquiring Smith at the cost of McGee are: exasperating size/defense issues at the 5, Smith's shooting (Javale can't shoot either but I think he has a better grasp of his limitations even if he's always one second away from doing something GIFworthy). The former is more pressing than the latter, but overall, while Smith is the better talent/player I do think DEN would have to think hard about the fit.
The Bulls were stay close to BKN and beat ATL because neither were able to exploit the Bulls size disadvantage with Boozer/Noah out. I don't think that'll be the case against Indiana.
That's all well and good, but the Celtics as currently constituted don't have a need at the guard position. They have Bradley/Lee/Terry/Barbosa, and Rondo coming back (presumably) fairly early next season. Bledsoe is better than any of the non-Rondo players (unless you're really high on Bradley's defensive impact), but the Celtics have much greater need for a big man. If they were going to blow up their locker room by moving Garnett (or even risking alienating him by broaching the subject), I would imagine it would only be for a player that was both very good and addressed their biggest roster weakness, which would only be exacerbated by trading away their current best big (and overall player).
i don't think there's any way that danny ferry takes his eye off of that particular ball.
A couple people mentioned this line of thought, so I wanted to say that I don't really agree with it. It makes the issue way too black and white. He can be at 80-90%, in which case they are still a real contender if everyone else is playing well. He also can get hurt and miss only a couple of games, similar to Bosh's injury in the middle of the playoffs last year. You need to have some ability to weather the storm for a short term period of time with your roster.
If they were going to trade for Garnett, I'd probably want to keep Bledsoe and get rid of Jordan. But presumably if they were thinking along those lines, they'd have done things differently.
No disrespect intended. I think I picked the Bulls at #3 in the conference before the season. I can see Denver losing to Chicago, @ Portland (they struggle there), @ Brooklyn at the end of a B-2-B.
Pretty sure Denver can beat anyone at home, even a Bulls team with a healthy Rose - that'd be what, the 4th or 5th best team in the NBA?
Bosh missing time is like Blake Griffin missing time - painful, but it's not a death blow when you have a top 4 player and quality parts around him. Paul missing time is like LBJ missing time.
Or, of course, you might not have as many good guards as you thought because Rondo isn't the same player when he returns. Or who knows what. It's all an issue for later, IMO. If you're rebuilding, you worry about amassing total talent. You don't worry about how best to get all the talent on the floor until you have enough total talent to make that point worth considering.
As reported, Bledsoe/Garnett is apparently not happening anyway. I assume that the Celts are reluctant to trade Garnett because they feel loyalty to him and because they're reluctant to pull the trigger on a rebuild, which is all fine. But I hope they're not holding out for a better young player, because I don't see that as very plausible.
(It's a little different than baseball in this respect, BTW. Because baseball is less predictable in general and especially in the postseason, a team may view itself as a contender when it's really not and act accordingly, e.g. the Mets when they traded Scott Kazmir. But that's unlikely to happen in basketball, so we can be pretty confident that only a few elite teams would potentially be interested in Garnett.)
My assumption is that the rebuild point is key. How good does Ainge think they could be next year if the best case scenario plays out, and Rondo is back, Sullinger is back and keeps improving, neither Pierce nor Garnett falls off a cliff, and maybe (just maybe) Fab Melo provides a defensive presence in the paint and occasional roll man for Rondo? And is that more or less likely than them trading Garnett (with his ok) for a good young piece or three and drafting well to rebuild? Ainge seems to operate at least somewhat optimistically about his own team, though not delusionally (Jeff Green aside), so I'm not anticipating a move. But I still suspect that if they do, it would be a move for size, not for a guy like Bledsoe (whom I really like).
I'm with jmurph. If you're trading Garnett, all you care about is how much talent you get back, not what positions you're filling. Guys like Terry and (especially) Barbosa could not be less relevant to the situation.
And the CBS link didn't really clear anything up. The report (which appears to be more than "an internet rumor") is still that LAC offered something like Bledsoe and Butler for Garnett and Boston turned it down. If that's true, it would not surprise me if the teams continued checking in between now and Feb. 21. Is a deal "unlikely"? Probably. But that doesn't mean some significant trade involving those two teams definitely won't happen before the deadline.
the @spencerhawes00 make slam dunk like he take a #$!&@ on the Ultimate Warrior face. I respect him more forever than the jabroni Shaq
Garnett to SAS for Stephen Jackson (expiring) + picks.
Why it's a great idea: Karmic justice. Garnett + Duncan working together? The chance for NBA fans to watch what would be the best team defense of all time? The chance for Boston to get out from under the last two years of that contract and for San Antonio to go for it all. Splitter only plays around 23 mpg, so Garnett would be replacing Diaw's minutes primarily.
Why it will never happen: probably a little light on the value for Boston. Egos, and SAS's reluctance to make trades midseason.
Just an aside- I know you're just talking hypothetically- but this shouldn't really be a motivating factor for Boston. He's not owed that much, and is still good. It's not like they're going to attract Lebron or Paul or Howard over the next two summers if they can clear the cap space.
But, a) Duncan and KG don't get along, and I don't see Popovich forcing his surrogate son to do anything he doesn't want to do, and b) it illustrates the point I was making earlier: even though Splitter is a big man which is more of a Celts need, you'd still rather rebuild around Bledsoe than Splitter because he's just better (I think).
/Bayless
One game.
His FG% is now up to .555?
Speaking of %, I'm enjoying Curry taking a ridiculous amount of 3s and making them at a higher clip than he makes 2s.
Real time account:
Maybe they saved him money by making him change during the game? That is the first thing VladRad has done as a Bull all season.
I almost posted this as well. Threw in 8 rebounds and 8 assists as well. Now shooting 56% for the season.
Only 8 assists? Why isn't he passing the ball more?
What? No, really, what? Garnett is old, sure, but he's a steal at $12M per year, with no raises. By the numbers: he's leading the team in PER, DRtg*, defensive win shares, and total win shares (tied with Pierce). He's third in +/- (with +40; next best is Jeff Green at +15). By the eye, for most of the season, the defense has cratered when he leaves the floor, and infuriating as it is to see him shoot so well and so often with his heels hard to the 3-point line, without a reliable roll man (Doc doesn't trust Wilcox's defense fully, even when he's healthy (occasionally at best)), Garnett's spacing is vital. And by all accounts, he sets the tone in the locker room and is by far the best big-man coach the Celtics have. Sullinger in particular has raved about his guidance. More to the point, the Celtics have too much money tied up in good-but-not-great players over the next few years to fully blow it up. Getting out from under that contract would leave them with a thoroughly mediocre team without max-contract cap room.
That said, I would love to see a Duncan-KG front line in action, both for basketball reasons and to see them have to come to terms with each other. Lots and lots of bad blood there, but both are on the short-list of alleged best teammates in the league.
* Fab Melo is technically number 1 with a DRtg on 75; he played 3 garbage time minutes against the Magic where the only person who could score was Kyle O'Quinn. Who shot 5-6 while being guarded by Fab Melo.
Aren't you as unrepentant as any of us?
LeBron and Durant are having wondrous seasons.
Ripping off Haberstroh:
For example, Carmelo is finally having a season commensurate with the player he’s long been made out to be. If he made his next 200 shots, LeBron would still have a better FG% (55.5% - over half of his shots are jumpers, including a healthy number of threes). If Durant hit his next 75 shots (and he’s shooting 51.6% from the field, which is amazing), he’d still be behind LeBron. OTOH, if LeBron hit his next 500 free throws, his FT% would behind Durant’s.
Durant is a 29.4/7.5/4.4, 1.6 stl, 3.2 to, 1.2 blk, shooting 52-42-90 (on 18.3 fga, 4.6 3pa, 9.5 fta).
James is a 26.7/8.3/7.0, 1.7 stl, 2.9 to, 0.8 blk, shooting 56-40-74 (on 18.6 fga, 3.2 3pa, 6.5 fta).
I honestly don’t know which season is better.
By WS/48, both seasons look to potentially slot in the top 10-20 of all time. There’s one other season pair that meets that criteria – LeBron and Chris Paul four years back.
Using PER, they’re looking at top 30 seasons. Shaq and McGrady, Jordan and Robinson, and LeBron/Paul/Wade all had great marks in the same season by that method.
Granting I can't rule out Danny Ainge doing just about anything - no.
From a practical point of view, either you have a set dress code with little-to-no-room for interpretation, or you have a league official at every venue clearing a guy's bench attire.
1) Why do the Lakers suck?
2) Did everyone on the Celtics just get old?
3) I could have named literally zero players on the Warriors or the Nuggets, and they're 5-6 in the West. What is the meaning of this?
Or just fine violators, like the NFL does. I think the fact that he was asked to leave the bench is slightly more ridiculous than fining him, but probably preferable to Noah himself. Outside of the original controversy when the rule was handed down from on high, I haven't heard much about it. Has anyone ever been fined for it? Asked to leave? I honestly don't know.
Garnett would cost a premium - he's still an amazing player.
Something that is hard to measure, but is always a consideration for the team, is also the off-court benefits someone like KG provides to them - tickets, ratings, non-game events, prestige, etc. There's a ton of value to the C's to keep KG on their team and for him to finish his career there. Pierce too. Maybe Ainge isn't sentimental, but it doesn't mean he can't be overruled.
1) A combination of injuries, mismatched personnel and coach, and lack of depth.
2) Pierce and Garnett are old, but both are still effective. Their team defense is still excellent; however, their offense is inefficient (too many long twos and not enough layups, threes and foul shots) and they can't score enough to win. They are a tougher out in the playoffs than their record would indicate but are almost certainly done as a real contender.
3) The Nuggets did great in their Carmelo trade, and the Warriors have been looking like a talented bunch for a couple of years, but have finally started playing some defense and managed to avoid the injury bug this year. And, you don't follow the NBA, so why would you have heard of any of those guys?
Durant vs. Lebron- By my eye, Durant's defense has improved, but it only gets him into above-average territory. Lebron is still one of the best in the league and can effectively guard four positions. That breaks the close offensive comparison for me. I will say that Durant offsets some of Lebron's playmaking by being better off the ball and allowing his superstar teammate create for stretches.
A big part of it is that they built a team with no perimeter defense on the assumption that Howard could make up for it, and Howard just hasn't been healthy enough to support their needs.
Serious question: is he? And, if so, in what way? For example, I looked at the numbers over the last 2 years and if we assume that it is harder to shoot off of the dribble than off of the catch, one could make an argument that LeBron is a better shooter than Durant (I think Synergy tracks this so that would settle this). If not better, then at least as good. Basically, I just looked at their shooting percentages at the various locations on HoopData then made an eyeball adjustment based on Assisted%. There are inherent problems with this method, for example, misses off of passes won't show up.
EDIT: This is of course without mentioning Durant's off the ball issues that pop up in late game situations where OKC starts sets with the ball in Westbrook's hands.
It is a fair question, and I would readily change my feeling about it if there were clear numbers arguing the other way. What I was getting at in my previous comment is that I think it is easier for Westbrook to create plays with Durant off the ball than it is for Wade to create plays with Lebron off the ball. It seems that defenses are more willing to collapse off of Lebron and that nobody ever leaves Durant (again, based on observation since I do not know how to get an objective measurement).
Of course, there are numerous follow-up questions. Is it fair to compare Westbrook and Wade? Is Lebron's shooting percentage a function of his shot selection? Do defenses really play them differently off the ball? If so, how much of that is a function of their teams' offensive schemes? Is Durant better in catch-and-shoot situations? Does Lebron cut better off the ball?
PED ? (run)
Lin : 28 points 9 assists in 32 min .. +37 (!)
@WojYahooNBA: Pau Gasol felt a "pop" in the bottom of his foot, on crutches now. Getting an MRI on Wednesday.
Career high 29 pts on 14-15 shooting...in 15 minutes.
Good Kirk Goldsberry piece on Durant's improvement from Grantland (apropos given yesterday's Durant/Lebron lovefest.
WS/48 >= .290, WS > 10 (to filter small sample sizes, and get this year's performances in)
EDIT: Related, is it too early to start thinking about Durant in terms of where he (could) rank all time?
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