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Saturday, February 02, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - February 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: abstinence and William Howard Taft.

The District Attorney Posted: February 02, 2013 at 11:56 AM | 1151 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   1. The District Attorney Posted: February 03, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4361036)
Great Oden's raven!
   2. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 03, 2013 at 12:32 PM (#4361038)
It's Super Bowl Sunday and the Knicks are tied for 1st place and still the jokes persist. While I don't presently consider myself a Knicks fan, I think there's something funny about that.
   3. The District Attorney Posted: February 03, 2013 at 02:14 PM (#4361148)
@SeanDeveney

Sources tell Sporting News that the #Clippers have contacted the #Celtics about Kevin Garnett. Offer would include Caron Butler and Beldsoe.
Answer would presumably be "Yes, please."
   4. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: February 03, 2013 at 02:17 PM (#4361149)
I like the idea for the Clippers. The championship is within reach and Garnett is still elite. You have to go for it now because how long do you have Paul?
   5. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 03, 2013 at 03:33 PM (#4361195)
To everyone who laughed at me when I said 3-4-5-6 in the West is all in play...after the LAC loss today becomes official their lead on in the loss column on MEM, GS, and DEN will now be 1, 2, and 3, respectively.
   6. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 03, 2013 at 03:34 PM (#4361196)
It's easy to see why Boston would do this, but it's a terrible trade for the Clippers. The Clips are already strong at KG's position with Griffin and Jordan (not to mention Odom off the bench) and weak at PG now with Paul out. Bledsoe's hugely important right now for this group, especially defensively where he's the only guy who can keep up with other teams' waterbug point guards. The Clips were killing teams when they were healthy, they shouldn't panic now just because they're banged up. They pull this deal, and not only will it weaken them while CP3 is out, but they saddle themselves with KG's $12 million/per for two more seasons after this, making it harder to give Paul the max contract they need to offer to keep him.
   7. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 03, 2013 at 03:40 PM (#4361201)
[6] Can't you go over the cap to extend your own guy? Also, if Paul is healthy, Bledsoe isn't as important and if Paul isn't healthy, then you're not winning anything anyway. I think the gambit here would be that Paul is going to be back and healthy and if they add KG who, old as he is, is a much better defensive player than Jordan and not to mention a worlds better offensive option given the LAC big man FT issue. It's a risky move for LAC basically putting all your chips on '13 but I can kind of see it.

EDIT: I actually have more questions about the BOS angle. What do you do with a Rondo, Bledsoe, Bradley G rotation?
   8. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 03, 2013 at 03:56 PM (#4361210)
[6] Can't you go over the cap to extend your own guy?
You can, but this is Donald Sterling we're talking about. Griffin's already getting the max extension ($95 million over five years) starting next season and Jordan's getting $11M+ until 2015. Throw in KG's $12M, and that's $42 million before you even consider the $21 million+ Paul will command.

Also, if Paul is healthy, Bledsoe isn't as important and if Paul isn't healthy, then you're not winning anything anyway.
That's right, but if Paul's not healthy, then they're not winning with either KG or Bledsoe. The Clips need help at the guard spot, and trading Bledsoe doesn't.
   9. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 03, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4361217)
That's right, but if Paul's not healthy, then they're not winning with either KG or Bledsoe. The Clips need help at the guard spot, and trading Bledsoe doesn't.

They only need help at G because Paul isn't healthy though, right?
   10. Jon T. Posted: February 03, 2013 at 04:16 PM (#4361225)
KG at 12 mil per season is an absolute steal of a contract. and if the goal is to win a championship, you are not winning one without Chris Paul anyway so what makes them a better team with Chris Paul out is not really important.
   11. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 03, 2013 at 04:24 PM (#4361235)
I don't see KG accepting a move to LAC anyway.
   12. PJ Martinez Posted: February 03, 2013 at 05:51 PM (#4361293)
The other argument for dealing Bledsoe for Garnett is that LAC may not be able to keep Bledsoe long-term anyway, assuming they re-sign Paul to go along with Griffin and Jordan (much the way OKC couldn't quite keep Harden after renewing Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka).

Of course, Paul isn't re-signed yet, and his long-term health is in question, which are probably the top two reasons you don't make the trade.

The real gung ho move would be to somehow get both Pierce and Garnett (which would also make the trade more amenable to KG, probably). But I'm not sure how the Clippers manage to make that happen. You could get the salaries to work by including a team with cap room (Houston, e.g.), and sending a draft pick their way. But is Bledsoe alone worth both Pierce and Garnett to Boston?* Possibly not. So then Ainge would demand another pick and/or player, and it would all get very complicated.

I do think Garnett has major Rasheed-to-Detroit potential. He could put some team out west over the top.

* As for what Boston does with Bradley, Bledsoe, and Rondo: trades one of them, probably, though there wouldn't be any hurry, considering how long Rondo's out.
   13. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 03, 2013 at 05:59 PM (#4361299)
I do think Garnett has major Rasheed-to-Detroit potential. He could put some team out west over the top.
Houston. The Rocks have Harden and Lin and a legion of young swingmen that can shoot and run, but they don't have size. Boston could use an infusion of athleticism and youth, and KG would make Houston real contenders.
   14. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: February 03, 2013 at 06:11 PM (#4361306)
That is a horrible trade from the Celtics' perspective. It's not "Jason Terry for DeMarcus Cousins" dumb, but it's a lot closer to that than to viable. Unless they're gauging interest in those guys for a potential Pierce trade, that leak just seems like trolling. Who starts at center in this scenario? Jason Collins?

[Edited for J-Teeth]
   15. PJ Martinez Posted: February 03, 2013 at 06:13 PM (#4361309)
#13: Except that Houston's best player is 23 and their second-best player is 26. And they're just barely over .500. Why go for broke now? Seems to make more sense for a team (like SAS or LAC) that is closer to the top of the heap and whose best player is not so young.

Also not sure Houston has a player who makes it worthwhile from Boston's perspective.
   16. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 03, 2013 at 06:52 PM (#4361338)
Also not sure Houston has a player who makes it worthwhile from Boston's perspective.
Probably not, but that's the dilemma of trading KG. At his price, you're just not going to get equal value for this season. For Houston, adding KG would only strengthen their weaknesses and not take away from any of their strengths, whereas the Clippers would take a hard hit to their PG and bench strength if Bledsoe were traded. (And Bledsoe showed off his goods in today's game 17, 5, and 4 in the 2nd half.)

Pierce + Garnet would be $29 million (prorated) this season and $27 million next year. That's a lot of cash for teams to have to match to pull off a trade.
   17. PJ Martinez Posted: February 03, 2013 at 06:53 PM (#4361339)
Who starts at center in this scenario? Jason Collins?

Probably Wilcox. Or they get LAC to throw in Turiaf or something. Either way, when Ainge is considering KG deals, "Who is my starting center from now until we probably miss the playoffs?" is hardly the most pressing question.
   18. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: February 04, 2013 at 01:01 AM (#4361903)
To everyone who laughed at me when I said 3-4-5-6 in the West is all in play...after the LAC loss today becomes official their lead on in the loss column on MEM, GS, and DEN will now be 1, 2, and 3, respectively.

The Clippers have a really tough February, especially if Paul isn't healthy. Monday @ Washington is their 1st of 3 B-2-Bs. Also @NY/@PHil, and Houston/@LAL. Home games include Utah and San Antonio, also play @ Miami and @ Indiana. Could wind up going 6-7 or 5-8.
Golden State's schedule is also on the rough side. At Houston/OKC (B-2-B), at Memphis/Dallas (B-2-B), home games with Houston, San Antonio, @ Utah, @ Minnesota, @ Indiana/NY (B-2-B). Could go 5-7.
Denver has 4 home games, none easy but all winnable - Milwaukee, Chicago, Boston, LAL. Especially for a team that is pretty healthy and starting to learn to play very aggressive at home. Only 2 B-2-Bs, Toronto/Brooklyn and Washington/Charlotte. Also at Cleveland, Boston, Portland. Could easily go 8-4 or 9-3.
Memphis has the easiest schedule, B-2-Bs are Phoenix/@ Atlanta, and @Detroit/@Toronto. Lots of winnable home games (Orlando, Dallas, Sacramento, Phoenix). Even with the roster changes, should go 8-3 or 7-4.
   19. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: February 04, 2013 at 01:24 AM (#4361912)
Seeing the bulls as a winnable game bugged me a lot at first, but thinking for more than a second I realize it's true. Until Rose is back and playing 30+ min any game is a chance to beat the bulls. There are too many times where they just play terrible. I know it's not the norm but it can happen anytime at random. And well they have yet to win 4 in a row so it's not like they have been close to unstoppable
   20. rr Posted: February 04, 2013 at 02:06 AM (#4361927)
Seeing the bulls as a winnable game bugged me a lot at first


Also, Denver is good enough to beat anybody in the NBA if they are having a good night.
   21. Booey Posted: February 04, 2013 at 02:29 AM (#4361933)
Also, Denver is good enough to beat anybody in the NBA if they are having a good night.


Especially on their turf. Every home game is a winnable game for the Nuggs right now.
   22. RollingWave Posted: February 04, 2013 at 04:12 AM (#4361943)
As others said, Houston's not really one trade away from a championship anyway. there non PF position are still all showing different degree on inconsistency as is their bench.

meanwhile, they actually have an interesting cast of guys at PF, non has panned into a reliable option yet, but most show enough that you want to at least give it this season or the next to figure out. Patterson has largely followed the team's trend of having some great games with a lot of meh to bad once in between. though his inability to grab rebounds even when he's going well is annoying. (fun fact, per game base Patterson grab about as much rebound as Parson and Harden, though per 36 he is slightly better but not by much.). last game was his on game again when he scored 12 strait in the 4th to help Houston avoid the embarrassment of losing to the Bobcats at home. part of that is the Bobcats having no one who can match his size... and them being the Bobcats.

I'd think aside from figuring out PF, they really need to figure out a better consistent working relationship between Lin and Harden, they probably should try to split the two's time more. they already is trying that, but that usually end up just being Harden being ran into the ground while Lin ending up with the 3rd team. there has to be a more optimal configuration then that.

still this team is fun to watch most of the time, that loss to the Nuggets was the typically hilarious both team with no defense and just try to beat each other's brain in type of game .


   23. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: February 04, 2013 at 05:11 AM (#4361949)
[17] I forgot Wilcox was back. But I still don't see Bledsoe as a piece that can swing a championship, and I doubt the Celtics would be willing to trade Garnett for anything less, especially without any picks. Nor would San Antonio for Duncan or Dallas for Dirk. I guess my conclusion here is that "an internet trade rumor will never happen", which is not exactly earthshattering.

To pick up a thread from last month's thread, a JaVale for Josh Smith trade is interesting because it gives Atlanta one of the highest-upside players in the league who is actually movable and allows them to move Horford down to the 4; Denver also has a surplus of solid wings with midlevel-level contracts, and Atlanta could use one or two more (JaVale and Wilson Chandler together are also a viable salary match for trading purposes, for starters). Denver's rationale would be a bit more obvious: adding a passer, finisher (Andre Miller throwing lobs to J-Smoove? Yes, please.) and defender of that quality would make them a fascinating, dangerous team.
   24. The District Attorney Posted: February 04, 2013 at 09:56 AM (#4361986)
Well, you gotta trade Garnett to a contender. And a contender isn't looking to create a new hole on their roster. They're not going to trade anyone unless the player's position is well-filled even without him. Given all that, Bledsoe -- a starter-quality player who is currently backing up a superstar -- might literally be the best player they could ever hope to get. The Celts would be fools to turn it down IMO. They can figure out who to play where later.
   25. vagab0nd (no longer an outl13r) Posted: February 04, 2013 at 10:37 AM (#4362008)
Denver's rationale would be a bit more obvious: adding a passer, finisher (Andre Miller throwing lobs to J-Smoove? Yes, please.) and defender of that quality would make them a fascinating, dangerous team.


While Denver definitely wins this trade on talent, this presents lineup problems for Denver. They're already weak at the 5 and this would leave them with only Koufos and Mozgov as their centers. Faried can fill in in a pinch - his PER is the same at the 4 or the 5, but he doesn't have the size to guard 5's.
   26. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 04, 2013 at 10:42 AM (#4362012)
Well, you gotta trade Garnett to a contender.

No trade clause (one of four(?) in the league). So, they can consider it, float the idea to KG, but it may not happen.
   27. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 04, 2013 at 10:45 AM (#4362014)
While Denver definitely wins this trade on talent, this presents lineup problems for Denver. They're already weak at the 5 and this would leave them with only Koufos and Mozgov as their centers. Faried can fill in in a pinch - his PER is the same at the 4 or the 5, but he doesn't have the size to guard 5's.

Smith's love for taking jumpers he can't make would also compound DEN's already hugely problematic, no one on our team can shoot issue.

EDIT: To clarify the issues I see with acquiring Smith at the cost of McGee are: exasperating size/defense issues at the 5, Smith's shooting (Javale can't shoot either but I think he has a better grasp of his limitations even if he's always one second away from doing something GIFworthy). The former is more pressing than the latter, but overall, while Smith is the better talent/player I do think DEN would have to think hard about the fit.
   28. bigboy1234 Posted: February 04, 2013 at 11:44 AM (#4362080)
Denver is not weak at the 5, Koufus is pretty damn good, and McGee is one of, if not the best backup 5 in the game (Drummond/Splitter).
   29. The District Attorney Posted: February 04, 2013 at 11:58 AM (#4362101)
   30. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 04, 2013 at 12:25 PM (#4362134)
K.C Johnson ?@KCJHoop
Hinrich out. Noah says he doesn't think he'll be able to go. Boozer optimistic to play vs. Pacers. #Bulls


The Bulls were stay close to BKN and beat ATL because neither were able to exploit the Bulls size disadvantage with Boozer/Noah out. I don't think that'll be the case against Indiana.

   31. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: February 04, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4362137)
It might get ugly tonight, may skip out on watching it
   32. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 04, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4362140)
And World Peace should get another suspension for "punching" Brandon Knight.
   33. smileyy Posted: February 04, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4362208)
Posts like [32] is what makes his name so great. I had no idea World Peace had even been established for it to be suspended :D
   34. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 04, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4362353)
Bledsoe -- a starter-quality player who is currently backing up a superstar -- might literally be the best player they could ever hope to get. The Celts would be fools to turn it down IMO. They can figure out who to play where later.


That's all well and good, but the Celtics as currently constituted don't have a need at the guard position. They have Bradley/Lee/Terry/Barbosa, and Rondo coming back (presumably) fairly early next season. Bledsoe is better than any of the non-Rondo players (unless you're really high on Bradley's defensive impact), but the Celtics have much greater need for a big man. If they were going to blow up their locker room by moving Garnett (or even risking alienating him by broaching the subject), I would imagine it would only be for a player that was both very good and addressed their biggest roster weakness, which would only be exacerbated by trading away their current best big (and overall player).
   35. steagles Posted: February 04, 2013 at 02:47 PM (#4362379)
To pick up a thread from last month's thread, a JaVale for Josh Smith trade is interesting because it gives Atlanta one of the highest-upside players in the league who is actually movable and allows them to move Horford down to the 4; Denver also has a surplus of solid wings with midlevel-level contracts, and Atlanta could use one or two more (JaVale and Wilson Chandler together are also a viable salary match for trading purposes, for starters). Denver's rationale would be a bit more obvious: adding a passer, finisher (Andre Miller throwing lobs to J-Smoove? Yes, please.) and defender of that quality would make them a fascinating, dangerous team.
i'm pretty sure that ATL has gone out of its way to clear salary in order to make a run at dwight howard and chris paul this offseason, rather than for the purpose of acquiring javale mcgee.


i don't think there's any way that danny ferry takes his eye off of that particular ball.
   36. Spivey Posted: February 04, 2013 at 02:49 PM (#4362383)
if Paul isn't healthy, then you're not winning anything anyway.

A couple people mentioned this line of thought, so I wanted to say that I don't really agree with it. It makes the issue way too black and white. He can be at 80-90%, in which case they are still a real contender if everyone else is playing well. He also can get hurt and miss only a couple of games, similar to Bosh's injury in the middle of the playoffs last year. You need to have some ability to weather the storm for a short term period of time with your roster.

If they were going to trade for Garnett, I'd probably want to keep Bledsoe and get rid of Jordan. But presumably if they were thinking along those lines, they'd have done things differently.
   37. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: February 04, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4362424)
@ Meatwad: Seeing the bulls as a winnable game bugged me a lot at first, but thinking for more than a second I realize it's true.

No disrespect intended. I think I picked the Bulls at #3 in the conference before the season. I can see Denver losing to Chicago, @ Portland (they struggle there), @ Brooklyn at the end of a B-2-B.
   38. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 04, 2013 at 03:31 PM (#4362450)
Seeing the bulls as a winnable game bugged me a lot at first, but thinking for more than a second I realize it's true.


Pretty sure Denver can beat anyone at home, even a Bulls team with a healthy Rose - that'd be what, the 4th or 5th best team in the NBA?
   39. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 04, 2013 at 04:02 PM (#4362487)
Pelton weighs in on a potential Garnett to LAC deal on Insider:
...while organizations can't hang partial banners, improving the chances of flying the real thing makes trading for Garnett worth it for the Clippers
   40. vagab0nd (no longer an outl13r) Posted: February 04, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4362493)
He also can get hurt and miss only a couple of games, similar to Bosh's injury in the middle of the playoffs last year. You need to have some ability to weather the storm for a short term period of time with your roster.


Bosh missing time is like Blake Griffin missing time - painful, but it's not a death blow when you have a top 4 player and quality parts around him. Paul missing time is like LBJ missing time.
   41. The District Attorney Posted: February 04, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4362494)
They have Bradley/Lee/Terry/Barbosa, and Rondo coming back (presumably) fairly early next season. Bledsoe is better than any of the non-Rondo players (unless you're really high on Bradley's defensive impact), but the Celtics have much greater need for a big man.
Then trade Terry, whose contract is very reasonable. Heck, take the anti-suggestion in #14 and see if the SuperKings will trade DeMarcus Cousins for him ;-) (Hint: They won't.)

Or, of course, you might not have as many good guards as you thought because Rondo isn't the same player when he returns. Or who knows what. It's all an issue for later, IMO. If you're rebuilding, you worry about amassing total talent. You don't worry about how best to get all the talent on the floor until you have enough total talent to make that point worth considering.

As reported, Bledsoe/Garnett is apparently not happening anyway. I assume that the Celts are reluctant to trade Garnett because they feel loyalty to him and because they're reluctant to pull the trigger on a rebuild, which is all fine. But I hope they're not holding out for a better young player, because I don't see that as very plausible.

(It's a little different than baseball in this respect, BTW. Because baseball is less predictable in general and especially in the postseason, a team may view itself as a contender when it's really not and act accordingly, e.g. the Mets when they traded Scott Kazmir. But that's unlikely to happen in basketball, so we can be pretty confident that only a few elite teams would potentially be interested in Garnett.)
   42. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 04, 2013 at 04:17 PM (#4362505)
Nate Robinson won Eastern Conf player of the week for last week!
   43. jmurph Posted: February 04, 2013 at 04:18 PM (#4362506)
I'm a Celtics fan and think the DA has pretty much nailed it. I don't love taking Butler back, but I'd be shocked if they could do better than Bledsoe. Do the Clips have any draft picks left? That would always be nice. When Rondo is back, you trade him, or you trade Bledsoe, or you keep them both and trade Bradley. All of these guys are good enough to want, but none of them are great enough to prevent you from getting one of the others (if that sentence makes any sense).
   44. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 04, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4362547)
I assume that the Celts are reluctant to trade Garnett because they feel loyalty to him and because they're reluctant to pull the trigger on a rebuild, which is all fine. But I hope they're not holding out for a better young player, because I don't see that as very plausible.


My assumption is that the rebuild point is key. How good does Ainge think they could be next year if the best case scenario plays out, and Rondo is back, Sullinger is back and keeps improving, neither Pierce nor Garnett falls off a cliff, and maybe (just maybe) Fab Melo provides a defensive presence in the paint and occasional roll man for Rondo? And is that more or less likely than them trading Garnett (with his ok) for a good young piece or three and drafting well to rebuild? Ainge seems to operate at least somewhat optimistically about his own team, though not delusionally (Jeff Green aside), so I'm not anticipating a move. But I still suspect that if they do, it would be a move for size, not for a guy like Bledsoe (whom I really like).
   45. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 04, 2013 at 07:32 PM (#4362691)
Bulls get Boozer back tonight. That's good news. Noah thinks he might be ready to play Thursday, in Denver. Also, good news. Hinrich's return date is unknown, still good news.
   46. steagles Posted: February 04, 2013 at 07:40 PM (#4362697)
799. STEAGLES does what STEAGLES does for STEAGLES Posted: January 28, 2013 at 11:37 AM (#4356501)
Hardwood Paroxysm ?@HPbasketball

Personally? I'm terrified of Boston without Rondo. They're a worse team, but remember THE WORSE THEY ARE THE MORE THEY WIN. #playoffs2012
   47. Tripon Posted: February 04, 2013 at 08:41 PM (#4362745)
I don't understand why the Clippers would want to trade Crawford and Blesdoe.
   48. PJ Martinez Posted: February 04, 2013 at 09:09 PM (#4362772)
Who mentioned Crawford?

I'm with jmurph. If you're trading Garnett, all you care about is how much talent you get back, not what positions you're filling. Guys like Terry and (especially) Barbosa could not be less relevant to the situation.

And the CBS link didn't really clear anything up. The report (which appears to be more than "an internet rumor") is still that LAC offered something like Bledsoe and Butler for Garnett and Boston turned it down. If that's true, it would not surprise me if the teams continued checking in between now and Feb. 21. Is a deal "unlikely"? Probably. But that doesn't mean some significant trade involving those two teams definitely won't happen before the deadline.
   49. steagles Posted: February 04, 2013 at 09:20 PM (#4362780)
The Iron Sheik ?@the_ironsheik
the @spencerhawes00 make slam dunk like he take a #$!&@ on the Ultimate Warrior face. I respect him more forever than the jabroni Shaq
   50. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 05, 2013 at 12:43 AM (#4362844)
Boogie Cousins now is my least-favorite player. He's like an unentertaining train wreck.
   51. tshipman Posted: February 05, 2013 at 10:31 AM (#4362950)
Let me try out a trade idea that will never ever happen, but absolutely should:

Garnett to SAS for Stephen Jackson (expiring) + picks.

Why it's a great idea: Karmic justice. Garnett + Duncan working together? The chance for NBA fans to watch what would be the best team defense of all time? The chance for Boston to get out from under the last two years of that contract and for San Antonio to go for it all. Splitter only plays around 23 mpg, so Garnett would be replacing Diaw's minutes primarily.

Why it will never happen: probably a little light on the value for Boston. Egos, and SAS's reluctance to make trades midseason.

   52. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:04 AM (#4362984)
[51] I hate that trade as a Celtics fan - but as a basketball fan, the idea of the two best post defenders of the last 20 years playing alongside each other is...intriguing to say the least.
   53. jmurph Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4363032)
The chance for Boston to get out from under the last two years of that contract


Just an aside- I know you're just talking hypothetically- but this shouldn't really be a motivating factor for Boston. He's not owed that much, and is still good. It's not like they're going to attract Lebron or Paul or Howard over the next two summers if they can clear the cap space.
   54. The District Attorney Posted: February 05, 2013 at 12:47 PM (#4363086)
Jalen Rose made a similar suggestion, Splitter and Jackson for KG. (I dunno if Jalen bothers to check if his trades work under the cap.)

But, a) Duncan and KG don't get along, and I don't see Popovich forcing his surrogate son to do anything he doesn't want to do, and b) it illustrates the point I was making earlier: even though Splitter is a big man which is more of a Celts need, you'd still rather rebuild around Bledsoe than Splitter because he's just better (I think).
   55. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 05, 2013 at 01:12 PM (#4363105)
Anything more we can say about how awesome LeBron is?

James scored 31 points on 13-of-14 shooting to lead Miami past Charlotte 99-94 Monday night, giving the Heat their 10th consecutive victory against the Bobcats.

According to STATS, James' effort tied for the league's third-best shooting performance with at least that many attempts in the last 18 years. Shaquille O'Neal was 15 for 16 for the Heat against Seattle on Feb. 25, 2006, and Dwight Howard was 14 for 15 for Orlando against Philadelphia on April 14, 2007.

"I didn't plan it that way, I was just attacking when I could, got into the paint and was able to make some shots," said James, who made nine shots from 2 feet or closer.
   56. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: February 05, 2013 at 01:14 PM (#4363108)
13 of 14? Sounds like LeBron shot one of his patented LeBricks, thus proving my point about his poor shooting ability.

/Bayless
   57. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 05, 2013 at 01:27 PM (#4363127)
And World Peace should get another suspension for "punching" Brandon Knight.

One game.
   58. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 05, 2013 at 01:32 PM (#4363133)
Anything more we can say about how awesome LeBron is?

His FG% is now up to .555?

Speaking of %, I'm enjoying Curry taking a ridiculous amount of 3s and making them at a higher clip than he makes 2s.
   59. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 05, 2013 at 01:32 PM (#4363134)
So this was weird:

Noah, who sat out his third straight game with plantar fasciitis, was asked to leave the Bulls’ bench by NBA personnel after the All Star center didn’t meet the league’s dress code.

Dressed in a cardigan, blazer and jeans, Noah was forced to change into a more league-friendly outfit. He returned after halftime wearing a blue-striped shirt and jacket.


Real time account:

Nick Friedell ?@NickFriedell
Something is happening -- Noah was just escorted off the floor by team security. He was laughing -- it didn't look serious.

Nick Friedell ?@NickFriedell
Turns out somebody from the league office didn't like Noah's skinny jeans/sweater/blazer combo. They called and he had to leave the bench.

Nick Friedell ?@NickFriedell
Noah returns to the bench. He has taken off the sweater and is now wearing a striped polo shirt. VladRad sees him and says, "All right!"


Maybe they saved him money by making him change during the game? That is the first thing VladRad has done as a Bull all season.
   60. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: February 05, 2013 at 01:35 PM (#4363136)
Only Joakim Noah could somehow turn a cardigan into a middle finger to The Man.
   61. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 05, 2013 at 01:36 PM (#4363138)
Anything more we can say about how awesome LeBron is?


I almost posted this as well. Threw in 8 rebounds and 8 assists as well. Now shooting 56% for the season.
   62. smileyy Posted: February 05, 2013 at 01:44 PM (#4363147)
13 of 14? Sounds like LeBron shot one of his patented LeBricks, thus proving my point about his poor shooting ability.


Only 8 assists? Why isn't he passing the ball more?
   63. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 05, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4363148)
None of you unrepentant LeBron fanboys has mentioned the 5 turnovers I see.
   64. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: February 05, 2013 at 02:00 PM (#4363161)
The chance for Boston to get out from under the last two years of that contract


What? No, really, what? Garnett is old, sure, but he's a steal at $12M per year, with no raises. By the numbers: he's leading the team in PER, DRtg*, defensive win shares, and total win shares (tied with Pierce). He's third in +/- (with +40; next best is Jeff Green at +15). By the eye, for most of the season, the defense has cratered when he leaves the floor, and infuriating as it is to see him shoot so well and so often with his heels hard to the 3-point line, without a reliable roll man (Doc doesn't trust Wilcox's defense fully, even when he's healthy (occasionally at best)), Garnett's spacing is vital. And by all accounts, he sets the tone in the locker room and is by far the best big-man coach the Celtics have. Sullinger in particular has raved about his guidance. More to the point, the Celtics have too much money tied up in good-but-not-great players over the next few years to fully blow it up. Getting out from under that contract would leave them with a thoroughly mediocre team without max-contract cap room.

That said, I would love to see a Duncan-KG front line in action, both for basketball reasons and to see them have to come to terms with each other. Lots and lots of bad blood there, but both are on the short-list of alleged best teammates in the league.

* Fab Melo is technically number 1 with a DRtg on 75; he played 3 garbage time minutes against the Magic where the only person who could score was Kyle O'Quinn. Who shot 5-6 while being guarded by Fab Melo.
   65. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 05, 2013 at 02:16 PM (#4363177)
None of you unrepentant LeBron fanboys has mentioned the 5 turnovers I see.


Aren't you as unrepentant as any of us?
   66. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 05, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4363185)
It's Bulls day for Zach Lowe at grantland. Jimmy Butler and defense.
   67. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: February 05, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4363193)
It's because LeBron doesn't focus on the game enough. You never saw Michael Jordan hanging out at websites-- he was too busy working in the gym.
   68. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 05, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4363202)

LeBron and Durant are having wondrous seasons.

Ripping off Haberstroh:
For example, Carmelo is finally having a season commensurate with the player he’s long been made out to be. If he made his next 200 shots, LeBron would still have a better FG% (55.5% - over half of his shots are jumpers, including a healthy number of threes). If Durant hit his next 75 shots (and he’s shooting 51.6% from the field, which is amazing), he’d still be behind LeBron. OTOH, if LeBron hit his next 500 free throws, his FT% would behind Durant’s.

Durant is a 29.4/7.5/4.4, 1.6 stl, 3.2 to, 1.2 blk, shooting 52-42-90 (on 18.3 fga, 4.6 3pa, 9.5 fta).
James is a 26.7/8.3/7.0, 1.7 stl, 2.9 to, 0.8 blk, shooting 56-40-74 (on 18.6 fga, 3.2 3pa, 6.5 fta).

I honestly don’t know which season is better.

By WS/48, both seasons look to potentially slot in the top 10-20 of all time. There’s one other season pair that meets that criteria – LeBron and Chris Paul four years back.
Using PER, they’re looking at top 30 seasons. Shaq and McGrady, Jordan and Robinson, and LeBron/Paul/Wade all had great marks in the same season by that method.
   69. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 05, 2013 at 02:44 PM (#4363205)
Garnett would cost a premium - he's still an amazing player. What's the rumor - that he won't allow a trade unless Boston has already moved Pierce? Do you see them moving both guys?
   70. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: February 05, 2013 at 02:49 PM (#4363211)
In (serious) reference to 59, it strikes me as more than a little ridiculous that the NBA is enforcing their dress code like this. The dress code itself is troublesome, insofar as there are uncomfortable racial dynamics at play there, but on some level I understand it. But is the image of the league at all harmed by the presence of a player in a freaking cardigan on the bench?
   71. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 05, 2013 at 02:51 PM (#4363216)
Do you see them moving both guys?


Granting I can't rule out Danny Ainge doing just about anything - no.
   72. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 05, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4363227)
Me either.
   73. smileyy Posted: February 05, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4363228)
In (serious) reference to 59, it strikes me as more than a little ridiculous that the NBA is enforcing their dress code like this.


From a practical point of view, either you have a set dress code with little-to-no-room for interpretation, or you have a league official at every venue clearing a guy's bench attire.
   74. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: February 05, 2013 at 03:01 PM (#4363233)
So I watched every game of the 2011 NBA Playoffs...then took a couple of years off, in which I haven't followed the league at all.

1) Why do the Lakers suck?

2) Did everyone on the Celtics just get old?

3) I could have named literally zero players on the Warriors or the Nuggets, and they're 5-6 in the West. What is the meaning of this?
   75. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 05, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4363239)
From a practical point of view, either you have a set dress code with little-to-no-room for interpretation, or you have a league official at every venue clearing a guy's bench attire.

Or just fine violators, like the NFL does. I think the fact that he was asked to leave the bench is slightly more ridiculous than fining him, but probably preferable to Noah himself. Outside of the original controversy when the rule was handed down from on high, I haven't heard much about it. Has anyone ever been fined for it? Asked to leave? I honestly don't know.

Garnett would cost a premium - he's still an amazing player.

Something that is hard to measure, but is always a consideration for the team, is also the off-court benefits someone like KG provides to them - tickets, ratings, non-game events, prestige, etc. There's a ton of value to the C's to keep KG on their team and for him to finish his career there. Pierce too. Maybe Ainge isn't sentimental, but it doesn't mean he can't be overruled.
   76. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 05, 2013 at 03:04 PM (#4363241)
What is the meaning of this?

then took a couple of years off, in which I haven't followed the league at all.
   77. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 05, 2013 at 03:12 PM (#4363243)
1) Why do the Lakers suck?

2) Did everyone on the Celtics just get old?

3) I could have named literally zero players on the Warriors or the Nuggets, and they're 5-6 in the West. What is the meaning of this?


1) A combination of injuries, mismatched personnel and coach, and lack of depth.

2) Pierce and Garnett are old, but both are still effective. Their team defense is still excellent; however, their offense is inefficient (too many long twos and not enough layups, threes and foul shots) and they can't score enough to win. They are a tougher out in the playoffs than their record would indicate but are almost certainly done as a real contender.

3) The Nuggets did great in their Carmelo trade, and the Warriors have been looking like a talented bunch for a couple of years, but have finally started playing some defense and managed to avoid the injury bug this year. And, you don't follow the NBA, so why would you have heard of any of those guys?
   78. andrewberg Posted: February 05, 2013 at 04:07 PM (#4363288)
I assume the dress code issue is that they require a collar and he didn't have a collar. It's not like they're suspending him from games. Not that big of a deal.

Durant vs. Lebron- By my eye, Durant's defense has improved, but it only gets him into above-average territory. Lebron is still one of the best in the league and can effectively guard four positions. That breaks the close offensive comparison for me. I will say that Durant offsets some of Lebron's playmaking by being better off the ball and allowing his superstar teammate create for stretches.

1) Why do the Lakers suck?


A big part of it is that they built a team with no perimeter defense on the assumption that Howard could make up for it, and Howard just hasn't been healthy enough to support their needs.
   79. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 05, 2013 at 04:11 PM (#4363290)
I will say that Durant offsets some of Lebron's playmaking by being better off the ball

Serious question: is he? And, if so, in what way? For example, I looked at the numbers over the last 2 years and if we assume that it is harder to shoot off of the dribble than off of the catch, one could make an argument that LeBron is a better shooter than Durant (I think Synergy tracks this so that would settle this). If not better, then at least as good. Basically, I just looked at their shooting percentages at the various locations on HoopData then made an eyeball adjustment based on Assisted%. There are inherent problems with this method, for example, misses off of passes won't show up.

EDIT: This is of course without mentioning Durant's off the ball issues that pop up in late game situations where OKC starts sets with the ball in Westbrook's hands.
   80. andrewberg Posted: February 05, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4363310)
Serious question: is he? And, if so, in what way? For example, I looked at the numbers over the last 2 years and if we assume that it is harder to shoot off of the dribble than off of the catch, one could make an argument that LeBron is a better shooter than Durant (I think Synergy tracks this so that would settle this). If not better, then at least as good. Basically, I just looked at their shooting percentages at the various locations on HoopData then made an eyeball adjustment based on Assisted%. There are inherent problems with this method, for example, misses off of passes won't show up.


It is a fair question, and I would readily change my feeling about it if there were clear numbers arguing the other way. What I was getting at in my previous comment is that I think it is easier for Westbrook to create plays with Durant off the ball than it is for Wade to create plays with Lebron off the ball. It seems that defenses are more willing to collapse off of Lebron and that nobody ever leaves Durant (again, based on observation since I do not know how to get an objective measurement).

Of course, there are numerous follow-up questions. Is it fair to compare Westbrook and Wade? Is Lebron's shooting percentage a function of his shot selection? Do defenses really play them differently off the ball? If so, how much of that is a function of their teams' offensive schemes? Is Durant better in catch-and-shoot situations? Does Lebron cut better off the ball?
   81. RollingWave Posted: February 05, 2013 at 10:07 PM (#4363531)
62:77 at the half between Warrior Rockets.... yes... Rockets are 14-18 from downtown but 12-29 elsewhere.

   82. andrewberg Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:05 PM (#4363560)
Lin is going off on the one year anniversary of the start of Linsanity. Just call him Mr. February.
   83. RollingWave Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:11 PM (#4363566)
Houston 1 3 away from the NBA record with 4 min to go...
   84. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:19 PM (#4363570)
Kobe is spooky. His younger self came out tonight.
   85. RollingWave Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:23 PM (#4363572)
Kobe is spooky. His younger self came out tonight.


PED ? (run)
   86. RollingWave Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:30 PM (#4363575)
well that got ugly, Houston tied the record with nearly 3 minutes left, then the warriors decided to foul them the rest of the way so they can't get the final one.

Lin : 28 points 9 assists in 32 min .. +37 (!)
   87. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:43 PM (#4363581)
Primer RT:

@WojYahooNBA: Pau Gasol felt a "pop" in the bottom of his foot, on crutches now. Getting an MRI on Wednesday.
   88. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:46 PM (#4363582)
Also, Sam Dalembert tonight through almost 3 quarters:

Career high 29 pts on 14-15 shooting...in 15 minutes.
   89. RollingWave Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:49 PM (#4363584)
The Laker trainwreck : the gift that keeps on giving?
   90. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 06, 2013 at 12:08 AM (#4363595)
And Dalembert sits with 5 minutes left. 35 and 11 in 22 minutes.
   91. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 06, 2013 at 12:23 AM (#4363603)
Gallo just hit one of the most ridiculous And 1s I've ever seen in my life.
   92. steagles Posted: February 06, 2013 at 12:29 AM (#4363605)
And Dalembert sits with 5 minutes left. 35 and 11 in 22 minutes.
the points are impressive, but having seen him play for most of his career, i'd say the most shocking aspect of his game was the fact that he didn't turn the ball over.
   93. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 06, 2013 at 12:45 AM (#4363608)
Gallo just hit one of the most ridiculous And 1s I've ever seen in my life.
That was insane. Denver is such an entertaining team to watch.
   94. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 06, 2013 at 03:30 AM (#4363641)
89. RollingWave Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:49 PM (#4363584)
The Laker trainwreck : the gift that keeps on giving?
It's always a little fascinating when people hate the Lakers so much that they even cheer injuries.
   95. RollingWave Posted: February 06, 2013 at 06:31 AM (#4363648)
I don't cheer injuries, i mean in a 2011 Red Sox or 2010 Mets kind of comical implosion of a high profile team.
   96. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 06, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4363858)
As Zach Lowe pointed out a month ago, while 50-40-90 is extremely impressive, to simply lump this Durant season in among all the other 50-40-90 campaigns is selling KD short. He's doing this while leading the league in scoring.

Only one other person in NBA history has combined the volume and efficiency that we're seeing from Durant this season: Larry Bird in his prime (at ages 29 and 30).

Good Kirk Goldsberry piece on Durant's improvement from Grantland (apropos given yesterday's Durant/Lebron lovefest.
   97. smileyy Posted: February 06, 2013 at 01:48 PM (#4363932)
I don't think this is selective endpointing, but I also don't know what's magical about .290 WS/48. Its a good time to be an NBA fan:

WS/48 >= .290, WS > 10 (to filter small sample sizes, and get this year's performances in)

   98. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: February 06, 2013 at 02:07 PM (#4363974)
Is '12-'13 Kevin Durant better than '10-'11 Dwight Howard?

EDIT: Related, is it too early to start thinking about Durant in terms of where he (could) rank all time?
   99. smileyy Posted: February 06, 2013 at 02:16 PM (#4363985)
[94,95] Yeah -- I think you can appreciate team schadenfreude while still feeling bad for Pau getting injured, and wishing he weren't injured.
   100. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 06, 2013 at 02:53 PM (#4364059)
EDIT: Related, is it too early to start thinking about Durant in terms of where he (could) rank all time?
No. He's probably going to lead the league in PPG for the 4th season in a row. His efficiency is Bird-esque. His assist numbers are up. His defense has improved every year. He's 24 years old. It's not unreasonable to talk about him in the same sentence with all-timers. His career thus far is certainly worthy of it.
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