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Saturday, February 02, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - February 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: abstinence and William Howard Taft.

The District Attorney Posted: February 02, 2013 at 11:56 AM | 1151 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   701. PJ Martinez Posted: February 18, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4371392)
Re: Granger, why would the Clippers, who are trying to win now, trade for a guy who has yet to play this season and may not be the same after knee surgery? Of course the Pacers would do that, but LAC wouldn't even consider it, I'm sure.
   702. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 18, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4371422)
sixers will supposedly sign jeremy pargo for rest of the year. celts reportedly like to ink t. williams to a 10-day.
   703. PJ Martinez Posted: February 18, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4371427)
Probably won't make a big difference either way, but I like the no-risk Terrence Williams signing by Boston. Celtics are short on healthy players right now, so he may see some minutes quickly. He's young and seems pretty talented; supposedly there were questions about his attitude at his first couple NBA stops.
   704. Bitter Mouse Posted: February 18, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4371428)
I don't know that he belongs ni the Hall of Fame, but Maurice Cheeks will always get my vote for this.
   705. smileyy Posted: February 18, 2013 at 03:40 PM (#4371440)
Is it unfair to say that if you can't get to the playoffs with Player X as your best player, then Player X isn't a HOFer?

In this case, I'm talking about Mitch Richmond.

Edit: I'm probably setting my replacement level bar way too high, given that a replacement level team is a 10-15 win team. Its unfair to set the HOF bar at 20-30 wins added, which we've seen as reserved for inner-circle guys.

Edit 2: Dear god did the Kings ever draft badly in the late 80s and early 90s. I know that was a dreadful era for talent evaluation....but still..
   706. jmurph Posted: February 18, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4371442)
The NBA Hall of Fame is weird, but I'll ask this without checking the numbers: was Mitch Richmond ever even one of the best 20 players in the league during his career? I'd be pretty surprised if he was.
   707. Manny Coon Posted: February 18, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4371449)
The NBA Hall of Fame is weird, but I'll ask this without checking the numbers: was Mitch Richmond ever even one of the best 20 players in the league during his career? I'd be pretty surprised if he was.


He was 17th win shares and 11 in PER in 96-97, so he has a strong case that one season.

Is Richmond the worst player ever to make 6 straight all-star games? He scored a lot of points, but was a pretty limited player otherwise, which is a common type of player to be overrated by the media and casual fans. He was at least a pretty efficient scorer for a guard who shot as much he did.
   708. Tripon Posted: February 18, 2013 at 04:24 PM (#4371466)
I thought the NBA and college basketball was joined together, which is why you'll have some odd choices.
   709. smileyy Posted: February 18, 2013 at 04:29 PM (#4371468)
[708] Its all of basketball, not just NBA and college. There is no NBA HOF. There is a separate College Basketball HOF.
   710. Booey Posted: February 18, 2013 at 04:36 PM (#4371471)
There is no NBA HOF. It combines all levels of basketball. So yeah, the standards are often hard to figure out.

Edit: coke to smileyy
   711. jmurph Posted: February 18, 2013 at 04:45 PM (#4371476)
There is no NBA HOF. It combines all levels of basketball.


Yep, thanks for the correction. The point stands, though: he was basically a fringe all-star for a few seasons (started one) and had two very good college seasons. I can't imagine how that would make him a hall of famer.
   712. smileyy Posted: February 18, 2013 at 04:50 PM (#4371478)
Mitch Richmond's plaque would say "He scored a lot of points and was lucky enough to be on the same team as Tim Hardaway and Chris Mullin for a couple of seasons. Boy that Billy Owens trade was a stinker, wasn't it?"
   713. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: February 18, 2013 at 05:17 PM (#4371497)
Re: Granger, why would the Clippers, who are trying to win now, trade for a guy who has yet to play this season and may not be the same after knee surgery? Of course the Pacers would do that, but LAC wouldn't even consider it, I'm sure.

Good point. Guess I haven't thought about when he'd be back (which is when, btw?). Also, the trade deadline being this week just totally snuck up on me.
   714. PJ Martinez Posted: February 18, 2013 at 06:13 PM (#4371523)
Any day now, I think -- in fact, I believe his knee is now ready to go but he has the flu, or something. But who knows how he'll look when he comes back. And yeah, the trade deadline is right around the corner.

Will be interesting to see whether he can kick the Indy offense up a notch at all. If they could just get up around league average they might be a real threat to Miami.
   715. smileyy Posted: February 18, 2013 at 06:20 PM (#4371524)
I feel like Indy needs to take its shot while it can. I could be wrong, but they strike me as an ensemble team, and those are real hard to keep together, and hard to keep competitive if you have to change personnel.
   716. Into the Void Posted: February 18, 2013 at 08:01 PM (#4371568)
So the estimate is the Lakers need to go 19-9 to sneak into the playoffs. Looking at their schedule that doesn't seem at all unlikely. Despite being road heavy their March is very easy- I wouldn't be surprised to see them go 12-3 or 11-4 in it.
   717. Spivey Posted: February 18, 2013 at 08:02 PM (#4371569)
I feel like Indy needs to take its shot while it can. I could be wrong, but they strike me as an ensemble team, and those are real hard to keep together, and hard to keep competitive if you have to change personnel.


I don't think there's a ton of risk here because they're main guys are young and/or in their prime. I think their issue is more about if paying these guys is going to get more than they can handle, and the Bledsoe/Granger deal helps that a lot. I'm assuming Hibbert will play better, which leaves one real hole on the team, and because of how flexible they are with Hill and George either Granger or Bledsoe could fill it.

Bledsoe I think is more valuable because of his contract, but let's not forget that Granger had a really good year last year. He also makes them really, really tall.
   718. PJ Martinez Posted: February 18, 2013 at 08:27 PM (#4371576)
I don't think Granger's going anywhere because the uncertainty surrounding him probably lowers his trade value for contending teams. The only way I think Indy deals him this week is if ownership really wants to save money, and they settle for an OK prospect (someone not as good as Bledsoe) and draft picks.

Paul George has played much better at SF than at SG so far this year, but perhaps that's a sample-size mirage? In theory, he and Granger can be your wings next to Hill, and Indiana should continue to play great defense while possibly improving offensively.

They can always deal Granger in the offseason if he ends up not fitting as well as they hope.
   719. smileyy Posted: February 18, 2013 at 08:40 PM (#4371580)
I think their issue is more about if paying these guys is going to get more than they can handle


Yeah, that's part of what I meant but wasn't clear about.

I'm under the impression that David West supplies a lot of essential spacing and passing to the team, and while he's not old, he's not young either.
   720. andrewberg Posted: February 18, 2013 at 09:36 PM (#4371596)
George has played more SF with granger out. Granger being out moves George up their offensive pecking order, so I'm not surprised he's been better playing there. That might just be noise.
   721. Publius Publicola Posted: February 18, 2013 at 09:58 PM (#4371602)
Granger isn't really a game changer. He'll help with their depth but it's not like they're going to convert from a .600 to a .700 team when he comes back.
   722. PJ Martinez Posted: February 18, 2013 at 11:10 PM (#4371625)
@WojYahooNBA Three teams that league GM's on phones believe will make significant moves before trade deadline: Atlanta, Milwaukee and Phoenix.
   723. PJ Martinez Posted: February 19, 2013 at 12:14 AM (#4371648)
Supposedly Phoenix wants to trade for and then extend Josh Smith, and Atlanta is reportedly interested in acquiring a young center. Seems like some form of Smith for Gortat trade has a decent chance of happening this week.
   724. Into the Void Posted: February 19, 2013 at 02:35 AM (#4371682)
I have no idea what Phoenix is doing and I doubt think they do either.
   725. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 19, 2013 at 05:24 AM (#4371693)
I feel like Indy needs to take its shot while it can. I could be wrong, but they strike me as an ensemble team, and those are real hard to keep together, and hard to keep competitive if you have to change personnel.


Agree. The bottom line is that it's really hard to put together a contender unless you have a steal (from a financial/cap standpoint) on your team. This is either a pre-FA star, or a super-duper star worth a lot more than the max. And obviously the former (which right now, Indy has in George) is a ticking clock. I'm not really sure what Indy is supposed to do here though -- the other problem with an ensemble team as opposed to a stars-and-scrubs team is that it's just hard to upgrade since you don't have black holes eating minutes.
   726. PJ Martinez Posted: February 19, 2013 at 09:12 AM (#4371715)
@AlexKennedyNBA The Magic and Knicks have discussed a J.J. Redick for Iman Shumpert trade. Other players (and maybe a third team) would have to be involved
   727. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 19, 2013 at 10:26 AM (#4371741)
I have no idea what Phoenix is doing and I doubt think they do either.
Phoenix is in the asset-acquisition phase of the rebuild. They've got a handful of tradable assets, their own 1st-rounder and a chance at a second lottery pick if the Lakers keep struggling. This season never was about this season, but this offseason is one of the more crucial in franchise history.

BTW, I don't want them to trade for J-Smoove.
   728. andrewberg Posted: February 19, 2013 at 11:56 AM (#4371812)
You could also convince me that the economics of Indiana pro sports dictate that the Pacers need to stay competitive (if not championship caliber) to make money. It seems like they're one of those teams whose arenas completely dry up when they start losing.

I agree that Smith does not make sense for Phoenix. Re-signing him is going to close up a lot of cap space for anyone who acquires him, so you better either have a bigger star already in place or a steady supporting cast around him that will help define his role.
   729. Conor Posted: February 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4371838)
IIRC a lot of people here vouch for The Basketball Jones podcast, but the few times I've listened to it they always say a few too many monumentally...puzzling...things. One of the guys is making a J.R. Smith All-Star/6th Man case in today's podcast...


Responding a few days after you said this, but I was just catching up on the podcast and I caught this one today. That was from the Aussie guy, right? He seems like the one who is most likely the to make a puzzling (to use your word) point. The other 3 main guys I think are really solid.
   730. John M. Perkins Posted: February 19, 2013 at 12:26 PM (#4371842)
Richmond was the best player in the state of Kansas in final year at Kansas State.
   731. smileyy Posted: February 19, 2013 at 01:43 PM (#4371906)

Richmond was the best player in the state of Kansas in final year at Kansas State.


I see what you did there.

You could also convince me that the economics of Indiana pro sports dictate that the Pacers need to stay competitive (if not championship caliber) to make money.


There's certainly no shame in competing, even if you're not contending. This is a business after all. What does it take for Indiana to be a title contender?

Posit: Any of the top 4 teams in each conference would become at title contender by acquiring Kevin Garnett.
   732. andrewberg Posted: February 19, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4371913)
Are there title contenders other than okc, sa, and mia now? That would mean kg turns lac, mem, nyk, ind, bkn (or chi) into contenders? I don't think the marginal gain would be much for mem, nyk, ind given their current rosters, at least not enough to make them contenders.
   733. rr Posted: February 19, 2013 at 01:58 PM (#4371921)
Are there title contenders other than okc, sa, and mia now?


Clippers. 6th in ORTG; 7th in DRTG. Third-best player in the league, another top 10-20 guy, and a good bench.
   734. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: February 19, 2013 at 01:59 PM (#4371922)
[732] Disagree on NYK. KG would definitely make them title contenders. You didn't list DEN, but KG would make them title contenders as well. I also think you're underrating LAC by leaving them off the list of title contenders (says the guy who spent all pre-season saying LAC was overhyped).
   735. The District Attorney Posted: February 19, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4371929)
Disagree on NYK. KG would definitely make them title contenders.
Plus given recent events, it would be hilarious.
   736. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 19, 2013 at 02:07 PM (#4371930)
Clippers. 6th in ORTG; 7th in DRTG. Third-best player in the league, another top 15-20 guy, and a good bench.
Agreed. If not for CP3's injury (missed 12 games, lost 6), they're on the Spurs' heels for the top seed.
   737. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 19, 2013 at 02:09 PM (#4371933)
   738. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: February 19, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4371962)
That would mean kg turns lac, mem, nyk, ind, bkn (or chi) into contenders? I don't think the marginal gain would be much for mem, nyk, ind given their current rosters, at least not enough to make them contenders.

I agree with NJ, the Knicks with KG are a title contender. Agree on Memphis. I think he would be more than a marginal gain for Indiana. He definitely improves the chances for the Clips and Bulls. I don't think even with KG that the Nets would be title contenders (unless Williams and Wallace instantly reverted to the peak forms).
   739. andrewberg Posted: February 19, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4371968)
Clippers. 6th in ORTG; 7th in DRTG. Third-best player in the league, another top 10-20 guy, and a good bench.


Fair enough. I'm convinced. I had them on the line in my head anyway and I suppose they're about even with SA and OKC in the West if they stay healthy.
   740. madvillain Posted: February 20, 2013 at 12:03 AM (#4372348)
Couple quick things: Recent Jordan/Lebron conversation got me digging into some old Jordan Youtube clips. Anyone who hasn't seen the series "the Artistry of Michael Jordan" by HoopsEncyclopedia should go watch it now.

Can't find it right now (ugh) but someone on another forum posted a chart of threes per game verse fts per game. Extrapolating from the chart, you'll see more average threes per game than FTs in a couple more years, if things continue how they are.
   741. madvillain Posted: February 20, 2013 at 12:24 AM (#4372361)
Not sure why I can't save the edited post but here is that chart:


Chart of three pointers attempted per game verse free throws attempted per game. Extrapolating from the chart, you'll see more average threes per game than FTs in a couple more years, if things continue how they are.
   742. steagles Posted: February 20, 2013 at 12:59 AM (#4372372)
@Nets_PR: #Nets now 32-0 when outscoring opponent this season
   743. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: February 20, 2013 at 02:53 AM (#4372393)
Looking at some of the blogosphere's response to JJ Hickson and Kyrie Irving's recent tweets and all I can think is that Twitter is the best/worst/weirdest thing to happen to the NBA.
   744. smileyy Posted: February 20, 2013 at 11:23 AM (#4372544)
[740] Thanks for that. I had forgotten just how long Jordan's arms were, and what he could do because of that.
   745. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 20, 2013 at 01:48 PM (#4372690)
Every few days I marvel even more at the results of the 76ers involving themselves in the Dwight Howard trade. They traded Nikola Vucevic, who is a really good player. And they traded Iguodala, who is obviously Iguodala. And they traded a first round pick. And what they got was an old guy who had his worst season and then got injured, and a guy who everyone realized in November or so would never play a game for the 76ers.

At least they're only 4 games out of the playoffs!
   746. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: February 20, 2013 at 02:40 PM (#4372751)
Yikes.

Former Texas forward Gary Johnson is expected to make a full recovery after fracturing his skull in a collision with an opponent during a second-division Israeli basketball game.

The 24-year-old Johnson was put in a medically induced coma but has regained consciousness, the Israel Basketball Association said Wednesday. IBA spokesman Hagai Segal said Johnson was awake and communicative.

Johnson will require some plastic surgery but should make a full recovery, Segal said.

Johnson, who plays for Hapoel Galil Elyon, was injured Tuesday when Elitzur Ramla forward Johndre Jefferson hit Johnson in the head with his elbow.

"Gary made a step-through move and when he was going up I was close enough to block the shot and I blocked it on the backboard," Jefferson told The Associated Press. "I don't know how it happened, but when I was coming down my elbow caught him in the forehead.

"When we both came down I was standing over his feet trying to tap him on his side to ask him if he was OK. He was holding his head and kind of rolling around."

Jefferson said play was delayed for about 25 minutes as trainers and coaches tended to Johnson, who rolled on the court in agony before being taken to a hospital.

"You could see the fracture, the break," said Jefferson, who went back to his team's bench to wait while officials worked on Johnson. "I just had to walk away."
   747. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: February 20, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4372763)
Adrian Wojnarowski reported that the Nuggets turned down an offer of the salary formerly known as Brandon Roy and Memphis' 1st round pick from Minnesota for Timofey Mozgov.
   748. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 20, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4372782)
You mean Denver doesn't want to pay Brandon Roy ~$7 million for the rest of this season and all of next season to do nothing? Interesting.
   749. steagles Posted: February 20, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4372800)
Every few days I marvel even more at the results of the 76ers involving themselves in the Dwight Howard trade. They traded Nikola Vucevic, who is a really good player. And they traded Iguodala, who is obviously Iguodala. And they traded a first round pick. And what they got was an old guy who had his worst season and then got injured, and a guy who everyone realized in November or so would never play a game for the 76ers.

At least they're only 4 games out of the playoffs!
moe harkless is not exactly a zero, either.

vucevic was never getting out of collins' doghouse, anyway, so what he's doing in orlando is not entirely relevant to what he would be doing here.

and iguodala isn't exactly tearing it up with denver, either. his PER is 7th among players in their rotation, and 2 others (jordan hamilton and corey brewer) have essentially been his equal.

   750. smileyy Posted: February 20, 2013 at 03:27 PM (#4372803)
[746] I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. There are parts of the skull that are more brittle than others, and with all the elbows in a basketball game...
   751. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: February 20, 2013 at 04:33 PM (#4372868)
@748 - Roy's contract is guaranteed, but can become non-guaranteed if "certain health issues arise." Presumably, not being able to play is a health issue. So, the value to Denver would be the $5+ million owed Roy. Some of that then would be eaten signing the 1st rounder they got. The thinking is Mozgov is worth a lot more than that.
   752. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: February 20, 2013 at 05:40 PM (#4372933)
Steagles:
There are a lot of people smarter than me who think Bynum has been or was about to be not only one of the top centers in the league but one of the difference makers in the game. I always saw him as someone who once in awhile put up great numbers, or made a difference time to time. At the time, the deal to me seemed to suck for Orlando, but it was also a high risk one for the 76ers if you believed Bynum was more like the player I described.
   753. smileyy Posted: February 20, 2013 at 06:17 PM (#4372961)
The 76ers of last year and going forward weren't going to be a title contender without some sort of game-changing player. I agree with [752] in that they got one with Bynum or at least pre-this-surgery Bynum. Problem is, he hasn't been able to play.
   754. kpelton Posted: February 20, 2013 at 06:28 PM (#4372971)
Roy's contract: ShamSports.com says the criteria for the contract remaining guaranteed are:
A.) Roy being active at least 65 games
B.) Roy playing at least 1,400 minutes

Obviously, neither of those are going to happen, so it would probably be wise to think of Roy's contract as expiring. (Actually slightly better, since you can still trade him in July for a player making the same amount and the other team dumps all that salary.)

I'm guessing there's no way Roy's contract was insured, so basically the deal is Mozgov + $750,000 (the difference in salary the rest of the season) for a first-round pick, which I think the Nuggets ought to do.
   755. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: February 20, 2013 at 06:56 PM (#4372992)
Unless you think you can get more. This pick should be somewhere between 22 and 25, and I believe Faried was a 22nd pick. But generally, you're getting a potential role player there.
   756. RollingWave Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:06 PM (#4373076)
Sam Amick ?@sam_amick
Kings send T. Robinson, F. Garcia, T. Honeycutt to Houston for Toney Douglas, Cole Aldrich, Patrick Patterson & cash, USAT has learned.

what the hell..... I can't believe they manage to turn a ok player + 1 ehhh player +1 garbage into Thomas Robinson.

Also they traded Morris to the Suns... is this the first time twins play on the same team?
   757. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:07 PM (#4373078)
Coke to rollingwave
Didn't the van arsdales play together? (Edit: yup, also w Phoenix)
   758. JJ1986 Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:10 PM (#4373083)
What does Sacramento get out of that? Robinson is more valuable than Patterson and they're not even getting a draft pick.
   759. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:14 PM (#4373088)
Devil's advocate for sac: Robinson has kind of sucked and isn't that young. If u think he's a bust, move him before he's expensive enough that you don't pick up his option
   760. smileyy Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:17 PM (#4373092)
Patrick Patterson isn't a star, but are people that far down on him?
   761. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:25 PM (#4373097)
I think it's more that t rob just went high lotto.
   762. JJ1986 Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:29 PM (#4373098)
Patrick Patterson isn't a star, but are people that far down on him?


I like him and I think he fit well in Houston; it's more that I don't get what Sacramento's doing. They need to find guys who can be stars; adding average-ish players won't get them out of where they are. If they've already given up on Robinson, that also doesn't speak highly of their scouting.
   763. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:38 PM (#4373102)
I like him and I think he fit well in Houston
I thought Patterson did too, and I don't understand this trade. They don't seem to be getting much back with Robinson, and Robinson makes actual money for two years after this.
   764. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:45 PM (#4373103)
Houston is embracing risk ... Robinson was thought to have or has star potential. Not sure how he fits next to Asik, mind you.
   765. PJ Martinez Posted: February 20, 2013 at 09:58 PM (#4373108)
Supposedly Sacramento saves money? That might be the key factor for them.
   766. RollingWave Posted: February 20, 2013 at 10:03 PM (#4373109)
Patterson is a decent player, not star, but useful on the proper team.

I'd guess the generally feeling in Houston is that they need a more acceptable rebounder from the 4, while Patterson and Morris' lack of reb can be partially attributed to the fact that the team always plays them at the corner to shoot 3s, that doesn't explain it on the defensive end where they also aren't rebounding. and you can't run a transition offense if your not getting the defense board.

On the other hand another major issue is that they have no one who can play down low in half court sets, I'm not sure if Robinson helps there but at least he would help the defensive board part.
   767. steagles Posted: February 20, 2013 at 10:05 PM (#4373110)
I always saw him as someone who once in awhile put up great numbers, or made a difference time to time.
he averaged 18 points and 12 rebounds last year, so i think this take is more than a little pessimistic. if bynum did what he did last year, this year, he'd be the best center in the league by a mile. and if he improved in going from the third option in LA to the 1st option in philly, the gap would be that much wider.
Also they traded Morris to the Suns... is this the first time twins play on the same team?
were dale and antonio davis twins, or just brothers who looked really similar?
   768. steagles Posted: February 20, 2013 at 10:13 PM (#4373111)
Houston is embracing risk ... Robinson was thought to have or has star potential. Not sure how he fits next to Asik, mind you.
asik, robinson, and greg smith make for a hulking front court rotation.
asik: 12% ORB%, 30% DRB%, 21% TRB%
smith: 12% ORB%, 20% DRB%, 16% TRB%
robinson: 12% ORB, 21% DRB%, 16% TRB%

if they gel together, that could be a very tough front court to match up against.
   769. PJ Martinez Posted: February 20, 2013 at 10:15 PM (#4373112)
@SpearsNBAYahoo Kings move was all about cutting costs and not something management enjoyed doing, a source said.
   770. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 20, 2013 at 10:16 PM (#4373113)
If so, that's a stupid way to cut costs.

The davises were no relation.
Other twins include the Grahams, Grants, Collinses, Lopezes, and journeymen Carl and Charles Thomas.
   771. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 20, 2013 at 10:48 PM (#4373122)
I feel really stupid that I didn't realize Stephen Curry is Dell Curry's son.
   772. Tripon Posted: February 20, 2013 at 10:52 PM (#4373125)
753. smileyy Posted: February 20, 2013 at 06:17 PM (#4372961)
The 76ers of last year and going forward weren't going to be a title contender without some sort of game-changing player. I agree with [752] in that they got one with Bynum or at least pre-this-surgery Bynum. Problem is, he hasn't been able to play.


It is sort of hilarious that the big mega trade of the off season, there are no winners. Orlando became much worse, and didn't get the picks it needed to become somewhat relevant soon, The 76ers get a broken player who might jump anyway at the end of the season, and the Lakers got the dick version of Dwight Howard that shown up over the last two years.
   773. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 20, 2013 at 10:53 PM (#4373126)
There was gnashing of teeth at dell's alma mater (vpi) for not offering Stephen a full ride... Another Curry, as you likely know, starts at duke and might get drafted (Trajan Langdon type).
   774. RollingWave Posted: February 20, 2013 at 11:21 PM (#4373148)
Holy ####, James Harden is trying to single handedly beat the Thunder.
   775. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: February 20, 2013 at 11:24 PM (#4373149)
Incredible ending to the HOU-OKC game. Holy ####### ####.

EDIT: Game's not done yet. LEAGUE PASS ALERT!!!
   776. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: February 20, 2013 at 11:26 PM (#4373150)
James Harden is ####### ruthless. Wow.

EDIT: LINNN1!!!!!
   777. RollingWave Posted: February 20, 2013 at 11:28 PM (#4373151)
Lin and Harden combining for 72 points

edit : make that 75, unreal
   778. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 20, 2013 at 11:30 PM (#4373152)
Durant has a trip-dub, Westbrook nearly has one too, and Sefo has 28... Still not enough!?
Harden: 44 pts, 19 Fga. Not bad...

Meanwhile, cle crowd is chanting MVP for Irving (20 in the 4th)
   779. Spivey Posted: February 20, 2013 at 11:48 PM (#4373156)
I'm bummed I missed the Houston/OKC game.

Meanwhile, Indiana beat NYK by 34. I'm really excited to see Indiana and Miami square off in the playoffs, if it happens.
   780. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:40 AM (#4373163)
Barkley:
One of the things about my game, though, was that I could do all my stuff on my own. I think I'm in the top 20 of players of all time. You take Karl [Malone] -- he needed John Stockton. That's not a knock on Karl. I didn't need a point guard. I could get mine any time I wanted to.

I'll say it on the record: I was better than Karl. He was great. I was better. The only thing he could do better than me was score and that came down to John Stockton.
   781. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:56 AM (#4373166)
And defend, Charles.
   782. RollingWave Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:19 AM (#4373169)
Charles Barkley, douche or royal douche?


   783. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:24 AM (#4373172)
Charles is legitimately fun. And a little creepy.

This'll get lost in trade rumor stuff, no doubt, but here's an article on a subject near and dear to my heart: 12th men. As for Nevitt, he's an IT guy in my neck of the woods (I've told a story about bumping into him at the mall in a different thread).
   784. andrewberg Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:32 AM (#4373174)
Other twins include the Grahams, Grants, Collinses, Lopezes, and journeymen Carl and Charles Thomas.


Also, Mark and Ronnie Price, Shandon and Birdman Anderson (identical).

Not sure why cutting salary is a necessity once a deep pocket buyer is already found.
   785. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:55 AM (#4373177)
In a pretty horrible season for the Laker faithful, tonight's payback for the blowout in Boston two weeks ago rematch is deeply enjoyable.
   786. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 21, 2013 at 02:00 AM (#4373178)
Also, Mark and Ronnie Price, Shandon and Birdman Anderson (identical).


It's too bad Moses never joined Karl and Jeff to be the first triplets to play together, although he did play in Utah in the ABA, along with Jazz announcer Ron Boone and former Jazz owner Larry Miller.
   787. Booey Posted: February 21, 2013 at 02:08 AM (#4373182)
I'll say it on the record: I was better than Karl. He was great. I was better. The only thing he could do better than me was score and that came down to John Stockton.


Pretty sure he had a leg up on you with that whole work ethic/conditioning thing too, Chuck...
   788. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:27 AM (#4373193)
The Dream Team documentary talked about the positional rivalries those guys all had. Barkley and Malone went at each other, Robinson and Ewing, Michael and Magic, etc. I would have been shocked to hear Barkley say anything other than what he did, and I have no doubt Malone would claim the be the better of the two.
   789. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 21, 2013 at 10:15 AM (#4373247)
ESPN has an article on Haralabos Voulgaris, the infamous analyst/gambler.
   790. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:01 AM (#4373278)
Miami is really starting to run away with the East. 2-5 are still only 2 games apart and could finish in any order (though Indiana is the favorite in my mind, and also the 2nd best team), but ATL is only 1.5 back of the 5 spot (if the trade Smith today, they aren't catching any of the 2-5 group). Milwaukee is tumbling, but Philly can't take advantage to get into the playoffs. I guess looking at it today, I would predict the East ending up Miami/Indy/NYK/CHI/BKN*/BOS/ATL/MIL.

In the West, I'd expect the Spurs to stay at the top, but I think OKC and LAC will come down to the wire for the 2/3 spots. Memphis seems to have gotten over the Gay trade, so they should stay ahead of Denver for the 4 spot. I still refuse to believe the Lakers miss the playoffs, so one of the bottom 3 of GS/Utah/Hou is going to come up short. The Rockets are the best of those 3, IMO, so I think they're in even though they're 8th now. Sorry to our Jazz fans, but I think it's gonna be them (although, if they get Butler and Bledsoe for Millsap I think they'll outlast GS). So today, I'll guess SA/OKC/LAC/MEM/DEN/HOU/GS/LAL and say the Lakers beat the Spurs in the first round.

*Switch the Bulls and Nets if the Nets get Smith.
   791. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:18 AM (#4373284)
This comment on Knickerblogger made my morning:
"Jason Kidd has been so awful that if he took a few shots before driving home I’m sure he’d miss the telephone pole this time."


[790] I see it as EC: MIA/IND/CHI/NYK/BKN/BOS/ATL/MIL. IIRC, MIL actually plays MIA pretty tough so that might not be an interesting matchup. WC: SAS/OKC/LAC/DEN/MEM/HOU/UTH/LAL. Still think DEN overtakes MEM due to the DEN schedule. Also expecting that to be a 7-game 1st round series.
   792. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:29 AM (#4373293)
MIA/IND/CHI/NYK/BKN/BOS/ATL/MIL

If you're the NBA and ESPN/TNT, those are definitely the first round matchups you want to maximize ratings (and you put the 2 teams people care about the least together on NBA TV - Ind/Atl). Most of my predictions about the Bulls finishing 2nd or 3rd were counting on Rose being back already. Since he's practicing 5 on 5, it's probably close, but I'm hedging a couple games here now. Unless, that's more of you being down on the Knicks after last night.

If the NBA were rigging the first round matchups, they'd do everything they could to get LAC/LAL in there somehow. I think the Nuggets/Memphis series is already my favorite matchup. Though Clips/Rockets could be a lot of fun too.
   793. AROM Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:39 AM (#4373300)
Pretty sure he had a leg up on you with that whole work ethic/conditioning thing too, Chuck...


That's why Karl had the better career. Remained a full time, great player until age 39. Barkley, on the other hand, had only one season of more than 2500 minutes after turning 30.

Barkley in his peak though shot for a higher percentage, got to the line more, pulled in a higher percentage of rebounds, and even blocked more shots. The only thing that gives me doubt on who was the better peak player is the difficult to measure non-block, non-steal defense. Malone is considered greater at that than Barkley, but I can't quantify it.

I'd say Barkley:Mantle and Malone:Mays.

Over the weekend I've seen a few replays of the famous Barkley coast to coast rumble. I saw that live, as a teenager living near Philly, and never get tired of watching it. I think that video perfectly sums up the player Barkley was: Dominant, relentless, supremely talented, reckless.
   794. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:45 AM (#4373307)
Most of my predictions about the Bulls finishing 2nd or 3rd were counting on Rose being back already. Since he's practicing 5 on 5, it's probably close, but I'm hedging a couple games here now. Unless, that's more of you being down on the Knicks after last night.

I've been down on the Knicks since the Lincident...but yeah, I think CHI is just a better team and the various Knicks' deals with the devil have expired since their 18-5 start.

Though Clips/Rockets could be a lot of fun too.

Rockets/anyone is fun because of HOU's style of play.
   795. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:50 AM (#4373312)
I've been down on the Knicks since the Lincident...but yeah, I think CHI is just a better team and the various Knicks' deals with the devil have expired since their 18-5 start.

They're even less of a threat than I wrote before the season started. The fundamental problem remains in place: a team with Carmelo Anthony on it will never have enough breathing room for a #2 you can win a ring with and Carmelo Anthony isn't good enough to win a ring as a heroball #1.

The rest is just window dressing and fodder for chatter.

   796. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4373320)
[795] Eh. Melo's issues (at least the ones you cited) relate to the functioning of a capable offense and other than last year, his teams have pretty much always produced on that end. The problem is that they can't guard anyone. It sucks for their chances for this season, but at the least they have an exciting young-ish PG who has shown flashes and maybe next year he really develops into som...oh...never mind.
   797. steagles Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4373339)
Philly can't take advantage to get into the playoffs
i don't think people realize how terrible the sixers have been. they have the third fewest road wins in the NBA (ahead of only washington and sacramento), and if you go by the simple rating system on bask-ref, the only teams that have been worse than them are washington, cleveland, phoenix, orlando, sacramento and charlotte. they have a truly terrible offense, and their defense never gelled, so there really isn't anything they can hang their hat on and say that they do it well. they don't rebound, they don't shoot, they don't play in the paint, they don't get to the FT line, they're not athletic, they don't block shots.

MIA/IND/CHI/NYK/BKN/BOS/ATL/MIL

If you're the NBA and ESPN/TNT, those are definitely the first round matchups you want to maximize ratings
i would not be interested in any of those series. MIA/MIL and IND/ATL will be bloodbaths. nothing good can come from a NYK/BRK series. and the less that is said about a possible CHI/BOS matchup, the better.
   798. Booey Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:36 PM (#4373346)
one of the bottom 3 of GS/Utah/Hou is going to come up short. The Rockets are the best of those 3, IMO, so I think they're in even though they're 8th now. Sorry to our Jazz fans, but I think it's gonna be them (although, if they get Butler and Bledsoe for Millsap I think they'll outlast GS).


I don't think the Lakers are completely done yet either, but they're running out of time. I think for the first time all year I'd probably bet against them making the playoffs. And if they do make it, my guess is they take the Warriors spot, who are virtually tied with the Jazz but going in opposite directions.

Houston vs Utah is an interesting comparison, cuz the Rockets look clearly better by virtually every statistical measure, but for some reason those numbers haven't translated into a better record, and I'm not as sure as others that it will in the end. I suspect the Jazz's team numbers are lowered by their annoying habit of squandering big leads and turning blowout wins into nailbiters. For those who've followed them closely, how many times have they gotten up by 15-20 and then won by 5ish after letting their opponent come back to within 2 or 3? A lot. That's frustrating as a fan, but those games are still counting as wins. Houston's wins may be by higher totals, but thus far that hasn't translated into more of them, which is really what matters most.

the Lakers beat the Spurs in the first round.


Really? For a long time I thought the Lakers may have been like the 1995 Rockets or 1999 Knicks and were capable of doing some serious damage in the playoffs even without homecourt in any round. I don't see it anymore. I really don't think they're any better than Utah/Houston/GS at this point, and if they squeeked into the playoffs, I'd expect them to get curbstomped by the Spurs or Thunder just as badly as those other teams would.

   799. rr Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:37 PM (#4373347)
Malone is considered greater at that than Barkley, but I can't quantify it.


Malone did great work guarding Duncan in the 2004 Conference Semis; that was one of the main things that turned that series around, and that was when Malone was 40 years old.
   800. Booey Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4373349)
Barkley in his peak though shot for a higher percentage, got to the line more, pulled in a higher percentage of rebounds, and even blocked more shots


Did he really? Without looking up the numbers (I'm at work, sorry), that surprises me. I thought I remembered Malone leading the league in FT attempts a few times. I could be wrong.
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