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Saturday, February 02, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - February 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: abstinence and William Howard Taft.

The District Attorney Posted: February 02, 2013 at 11:56 AM | 1151 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   801. Booey Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:47 PM (#4373358)
flip
   802. AROM Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:00 PM (#4373367)
Did he really? Without looking up the numbers (I'm at work, sorry), that surprises me. I thought I remembered Malone leading the league in FT attempts a few times. I could be wrong.


You're right. Barkley had the single season best of getting to the line (951 times, 10.8 per 36) but that was his only season over 10 per 36, Malone had 3 such years and led the league in attempts 7 times, including 5 in a row during the late 80's/early 90's period where both players were in their primes.

For their careers Malone got to the line about 10% more often, on a per minute basis. I'll have to revise the statement to Barkley's advantages being field goal percentage and rebounding.

Barkley was better able to put the ball on the floor, and he's correct in saying he didn't need any help to get his own shot. The downside to this is the turnover stat, just because Charles could do something doesn't mean he should (also see his 3 point shooting). I have no problem with the idea that Malone was the more valuable player even during peak, and certainly more valuable on a career basis, but stand by my feeling that Barkley was the more awesome talent.

Malone fit his game better into a team concept. Some of that may be a result of having more stable coaching. Though I doubt there are many coaches who could have controlled Barkley, especially when he was younger.
   803. JJ1986 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:17 PM (#4373374)
Rumor:

Sebastian Telfair to Toronto for Haddadi and a 2nd round pick.
   804. smileyy Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:25 PM (#4373377)
[803] My first take was "That's an impressive haul for a guy who I didn't know was still in the league (Telfair)." What happened to Haddadi this year? Does it count as falling off a cliff if you only play 6 minutes every other game anyway?
   805. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4373380)
His #s aren't that that different apart from shooting - and he's only taken 21 shots / 2 free throws (the latter is authentically weird).
I still think he could be Aaron Gray, if you let him.

Telfair is one of my least favorite players in the league. At least his threes are going down this year but - blech.
   806. Booey Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4373394)
AROM #802 - I'd agree with all that.
   807. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 21, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4373417)
Really? For a long time I thought the Lakers may have been like the 1995 Rockets or 1999 Knicks and were capable of doing some serious damage in the playoffs even without homecourt in any round. I don't see it anymore. I really don't think they're any better than Utah/Houston/GS at this point, and if they squeeked into the playoffs, I'd expect them to get curbstomped by the Spurs or Thunder just as badly as those other teams would.

They were my preseason champ pick. I'm going down with the ship.
   808. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 21, 2013 at 02:49 PM (#4373425)
As Michael Ray Richardson would say, "The ship be sinkin'."
   809. Srul Itza Posted: February 21, 2013 at 02:51 PM (#4373427)
Malone fit his game better into a team concept. Some of that may be a result of having more stable coaching.


Having lived in Salt Lake a portion of this time, I would like to suggest that some of that may also have been being able to rely on Stockton to bring the ball up court, set nasty picks, and otherwise get him the ball in a good position to shoot.
   810. Jimmy P Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4373439)
The Celtics have acquired Jordan Crawford for Barbosa
   811. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:33 PM (#4373447)
rumor!: MIA sends Pittman and a their '13 2nd to MEM for a trade exception (and Ricky Sanchez).
   812. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:35 PM (#4373449)
   813. AROM Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:35 PM (#4373450)
They were my preseason champ pick. I'm going down with the ship.


Mine too. At least for the Western Conference.

Let's see, a few years ago they built championship teams around Kobe and Pau. Those two might not be quite at the same level, but the last 2 years were still great players and able to lead a team to the ~50 victory level.

Add Dwight Howard, a guy good enough that you can build a team around him with no other superstars, and beat Lebron.

Add Nash. Even if he doesn't run the offense to the same extent (because Kobe is) Nash is still a huge asset even if used as a spot up shooter (though that's kind of like using a brand new Cadillac to deliver pizzas). His defense is terrible, but the Lakers have had Derek Fisher at the spot for years after Fisher lost the ability to defend anybody.

Injuries have hurt them a ton, but they were still disappointing even with the big 4 stars all on the court. This is just a perfect storm, worst case scenario of what can happen with bad chemistry/synergy.

There's got to be a good movie about the dynamics behind the scenes here. The rude treatment of the one coach who might have been able to make this work in Phil Jackson. The odd display of confidence in a coach who's been pretty terrible. It's not like Phil Jackson is just some hired gun even, he's about to become the new owner's brother in law. There must be some serious sibling rivalry at work here.
   814. Maxwn Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:38 PM (#4373455)
Still think DEN overtakes MEM due to the DEN schedule.

I was looking at this out of curiosity and it seems like its really pretty hard to tell who the schedule favors. MEM's schedule is actually easier on the surface. By my calculations their average remaining opponent is like .489 while DEN is .518. And if you walk through it let both teams beat the teams which have a lower WIN% and lose to the teams with higher WIN%, MEM ends up with a 5 game lead. But Denver's schedule is home heavy and and the Grizzlies is road heavy, so it doesn't take too many assumptions to get that projection in DEN's favor. Let them beat MEM and NYN at home, maybe knock off OKC or SAS in Denver too, have the Grizzlies drop the backend of their road back-to-backs, etc. Trying to be objective, I think I'd still lean MEM because they have the 2 game lead and it's not totally obvious that the schedule difference is actually in Denver's favor.

I actually still think there's a decent chance MEM can catch the Clippers. They're only a game back in the loss column. I haven't done the calc for LAC, but just by eye-balling it, I'm pretty sure their remaining opponent;s average WIN% is above .500, maybe even by more than DEN. Their schedule is like +4 home vs away, but that home schedule is actually pretty tough, at least to my eyes. Now that I look at it, I actually think there is probably some 10th percentile scenario where DEN passes MEM and LAC. Most of the Nuggets remaining games against teams with better records are at home, so I can see some sort of situation where DEN goes like 23-4, 22-5. Their only remaining road games against winning teams are @CHI, @OKC, @SAS, @UTAH and several of the others are against some real cupcakes. If they did that, they could catch LAC even if the Clippers play somewhere between .600 and .650. It's a longshot, but I don't think it's impossible.
   815. Maxwn Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4373464)
The more I look at it, the more I think NJ is right and DEN does actually have a slight schedule advantage on MEM. I'm just not sure how big it is, since the Grizzlies schedule isn't really that bad. That game in Denver is going to be pretty big, the Nuggets have the 2-1 series lead so far this year. I don't remember now what the second tie-breaker is.
   816. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:54 PM (#4373472)
rumors that really are just rumors, rather than unconfirmed deals:
eric maynor may go to portland
redick may be in a three team deal that includes milwaukee
   817. Jimmy P Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:56 PM (#4373478)
The Blazers have acquired Eric Maynor for what appears to be nothing
   818. Jimmy P Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:58 PM (#4373482)
redick may be in a three team deal that includes milwaukee


Woj tweeted that Milwaukee did just acquire him. Wonder if they'll spin him off
   819. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4373484)
woj sez redick to mil. third team was to be atl, including josh smith.
   820. smileyy Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4373486)
The shine really came off Eric Maynor pretty quickly, huh?
   821. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4373489)
Charlotte gets Josh McRoberts, Orlando gets Hakim Warrick.
   822. Jimmy P Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4373491)
The shine really came off Eric Maynor pretty quickly, huh?


Torn ACL. OKC got used to playing without him, and he struggled when he returned. He'll get his chance because Portland really has no backup, and they need to ease up on Lillard
   823. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4373493)
Sebastian Telfair to Toronto for Haddadi and a 2nd round pick.
I'll take it. Bassy had lost his job once the Suns decided to see what K-Marshall can do, so this is getting a little something for nothing.
   824. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:07 PM (#4373494)
most of these trades seem to accomplish a whole lot of nothing
   825. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:09 PM (#4373497)
Love the J.J. deal for ORL. Really excited to see what Harris and Lamb do if given PT.

EDIT: Change love to really like. Just saw the full details of the deal.
   826. Booey Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4373505)
I don't remember now what the second tie-breaker is.


Better record within conference?
   827. JJ1986 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4373507)
Charlotte gets Josh McRoberts, Orlando gets Hakim Warrick.


Most pointless trade ever.
   828. smileyy Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4373521)

Most pointless trade ever.


That has a lot of competition with the other trades in the last 48 hours.
   829. Maxwn Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:28 PM (#4373525)
Yeah, this was a real barn-burner of a deadline.
   830. andrewberg Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:32 PM (#4373528)
Warrick seems to be involved in a totally pointless trade every year.
   831. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4373530)
Warrick is a pointless player, unless you like a package of dunk-everything and indifferent defense.
   832. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:45 PM (#4373542)
Warrick is a pointless player, unless you like a package of dunk-everything and indifferent defense.

He's actually my friend's cousin.
   833. AROM Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:47 PM (#4373549)
Aren't you embarrassed about being friends with the cousin of a pointless, dunk-everything, indifferent defender?
   834. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4373551)
[833] Kind of, yeah.
   835. andrewberg Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:53 PM (#4373555)
Warrick's transaction history:

Traded with Joe Alexander and the pick that would become Kevin Seraphin for John Salmons and the picks that would become Larry Sanders, Isaiah Thomas and Robert Sacre.

Traded for the pick that would become Charles Jenkins.

Three teamer where he and Robin Lopez went out with Jerome Dyson, Brad Miller, Wesley Johnson and a future first rounder coming back. Basketball-reference humorously lists the Wolves' return for that trade as "a future 2nd round draft pick, a future 2nd round draft pick and a future 2nd round draft pick."

Traded for Matt Carroll.

Traded for Josh McRoberts.

Collectively, those trades moved the needle on future NBA championships 0.0%.

   836. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:55 PM (#4373556)
GS dumped Tyler and Jenkins on somebody to get under the tax.
Blazers gonna waive Ronnie Price.
Jason Collins joined Barbosa.
Cash money joined Pittman.
Ronnie Brewer to OKC for a future 2nd.

Warrick ain't my kind of commodity, but he's a useful NBA player. Also, he's an NBA player.

I was hoping Ayon would go to ATL if we dealt Smith. Poor man's Horford...
   837. JJ1986 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:57 PM (#4373558)
I got very confused trying to figure out which teams those trades involved. I thought Warrick went Grizzlies to Bulls and had no memory of him playing with Milwaukee.
   838. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 21, 2013 at 05:19 PM (#4373565)
Jenkins to PHI, Tyler to ATL.
   839. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 21, 2013 at 05:23 PM (#4373569)
Warrick ain't my kind of commodity, but he's a useful NBA player. Also, he's an NBA player.

He's at least temporarily an ex-NBA player, since the Magic are waiving him.

Ronnie Brewer to OKC for a future 2nd.

They already have the better Brewer in Thabo. Though, defensive wings may come in handy if they play Miami in the Finals.

GS dumped Tyler

To the Hawks.

---

I gotta say, that's quite a weird bunch of pieces in Milwaukee. Plenty of guys that are useful, but almost no one on that team fits with anyone else on the team.
   840. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 21, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4373577)
One more we've missed - Anthony Morrow for Dahntay Jones.
   841. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 05:32 PM (#4373580)
One more we've missed - Anthony Morrow for Dahntay Jones.

DEN should have been in on this. MEM too, I would think.
   842. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 21, 2013 at 05:36 PM (#4373582)
Oh, thought I posted Jones/Morrow - sorry. Surprised ATL didn't get someone a hair more useful.

Supposedly, ATL pulled out of a deal where they would've received Udoh, the Prince, Udrih, and a protected #1.
   843. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 21, 2013 at 05:44 PM (#4373583)
This might become a thing:

CHICAGO -- Derrick Rose's brother and manager Reggie Rose said Thursday the franchise hasn't put enough quality players around the Chicago Bulls star to win a championship and that could be a "big factor" in whether he returns this season from a knee injury.

Reggie Rose said he was speaking for himself and not his brother.

"What have you pieced together? Have you made any moves? Have you made any trades to get better? You know all roads to the championship lead through Miami," Reggie Rose told ESPNChicago.com. "What pieces have you put together for the physical playoffs?

“It's frustrating to see my brother play his heart and soul out for the team and them not put anything around him.”

"Joakim Noah is a great player. Luol Deng is a great player. But you need more than that. You have to put together pieces to your main piece. The players can only do so much. It's up to the organization to make them better."

The Bulls stood pat at Thursday's trade deadline.

"It's frustrating to see my brother play his heart and soul out for the team and them not put anything around him," Reggie Rose said.


This is the first public disagreement or frustrations of sort between the Bulls and Rose. I'm starting to think (sense? fear?) that there's a bit of a struggle between the team and Rose about when he should come back.
   844. smileyy Posted: February 21, 2013 at 05:53 PM (#4373587)
Its easy to say without accepting the financial impact of lost ticket sales (and local ad revenue?), but shouldn't Chicago and Rose both agree to shut it down for the year?

I can see where the chicken-and-egg comes from. Why would Chicago bet big on this year when they don't know when/if/how well Rose will return? Why would Rose risk a <100% knee for a team that's not going to contend for the title?
   845. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 21, 2013 at 06:05 PM (#4373594)
Its easy to say without accepting the financial impact of lost ticket sales (and local ad revenue?), but shouldn't Chicago and Rose both agree to shut it down for the year?

If they did agree to that, it sure as hell wouldn't be publicly. And you wouldn't have had the Bulls start hinting at him coming back the last month or so.

Now that the Bulls weren't able to give Rip away to get under the tax (meaning, they're paying the tax this year for the first time ever), I could see management putting extra pressure on Rose to play to increase their chances of winning. The more he plays, the more they make. And of course, it's not an exact science as to when he's "safe" to play.
   846. Spivey Posted: February 21, 2013 at 06:20 PM (#4373603)
I was just looking at the Bulls on 82games. The problem, really, for the Bulls is that they have Boozer instead of someone earning his contract.

Also, Vladimir Radmanovic is still in the league!?
   847. Jimmy P Posted: February 21, 2013 at 06:30 PM (#4373613)
Now that the Bulls weren't able to give Rip away to get under the tax (meaning, they're paying the tax this year for the first time ever), I could see management putting extra pressure on Rose to play to increase their chances of winning. The more he plays, the more they make. And of course, it's not an exact science as to when he's "safe" to play.

I thought this, too. I just don't know how much that plays into it. The tv schedule is set, the tickets are sold, and they're going to make the playoffs. I guess Rose coming back increases the possibility of multiple rounds of playoffs, but I don't see much of a short term financial gain of Rose coming back this year.
   848. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 21, 2013 at 06:50 PM (#4373626)
Also, Vladimir Radmanovic is still in the league!?

No. I mean, yes. But no.

I thought this, too. I just don't know how much that plays into it. The tv schedule is set, the tickets are sold, and they're going to make the playoffs. I guess Rose coming back increases the possibility of multiple rounds of playoffs, but I don't see much of a short term financial gain of Rose coming back this year.

Better ratings in general (the Bulls do have a stake in CSN). The way playoff tickets are sold (and yes, possibility for more games). Like most teams nowadays, they also get their beak wet in the secondary ticket market (which is totally dried up right now). Plus, fewer no shows, so more concessions, parking, etc sales. And not every ticket is sold yet. The better they do this year, the better the season ticket base will be next year (and the more they can raise ticket prices).
   849. PJ Martinez Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:31 PM (#4373679)
Am I wrong in thinking that people may be over-reacting to the Thomas Robinson/Patrick Patterson trade?

Granted, Sacramento gave up someone they just picked #5 in the draft, and by all accounts for largely financial reasons. So, not a good move. And obviously the situation on the Kings is hardly ideal from a development perspective. So maybe Robinson will blossom. But he *did* spend three years in college, and he's been pretty lousy so far.

I mean, it's a very good deal for Houston, and Morey deserves credit for making it happen. But the way Bill Simmons is describing it, e.g., you'd think odds are very high that Robinson is a future star. It doesn't seem that way to me. (Big caveat: I haven't seen Robinson play much at all.)
   850. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:48 PM (#4373682)
[849] I agree with you actually. Odds are this doesn't amount to anything. But odds really are that this doesn't amount to anything for the Kings either -- so it's a clear win for the Rockets though not a major one.
   851. andrewberg Posted: February 21, 2013 at 10:07 PM (#4373697)
Am I wrong in thinking that people may be over-reacting to the Thomas Robinson/Patrick Patterson trade?


I'm not a fan of Robinson's. I do not think he's a great loss. I'm surprised they weren't able to convince another team that he had more redeeming value than Patterson, so I suppose that still makes it a bad trade.

What's the talk about the Bulls not putting talent around Rose? That's clearly not true. Even in that quote, the brother admits that Deng and Noah are good running mates. Boozer might not be living up to his contract, but they put the money on the table for the best guy who would take it from them. The one year he was healthy, they gave Miami a good run in the playoffs. They're a really good, well built team. The complaining should wait until they start doing unnecessarily cheap stuff again, not when they're re-signing Gibson, paying to keep Thibs, and not dumping Hamilton's salary.
   852. RollingWave Posted: February 21, 2013 at 10:18 PM (#4373700)
Assuming that non of the GS / Utah / Houston completely tanks and play .300-.400 ball the rest of the way, the Lakers would need to play at or over a .700 pace to HAVE A CHANCE to catch them. the odds are against them to be sure. even if you assume Utah / GS to be overrated they can still most likely play around .500 the rest of the way.

Robinson / Patterson trade : yeah it could turn out ooook for the Kings, since Patterson is a MUCH more polished shooter and player in general than Robinson is. it's just that he has a rather weird skill set for a PF. but that might actually work in SAC since he can shoot over smaller players on outside shots quite well. and yes Robinson is amazingly unpolished for a 3 year college high pick though the energy and athleticism is quite evident and obviously playing in Sac doesn't help.

Still, taken in the entire context of them sucking for a year to draft him, then essentially bench him after like 10 games and play him like the last guy on the bench for half a season, then give up on him only 2/3 of the season in for financial reason for a player who is solid but not much else. is a huge train wreck. of course if he actually develops then it's a trainwreck + an massive explosion afterwards.





   853. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: February 21, 2013 at 10:33 PM (#4373707)
Does Rose's brother actually know what happens in the NBA? If the bulls were able to magically add someone who could be a legit 2 scorer and get them over the hump I would have to think they would have done so already. It's not easy to find guys like that.
   854. Spivey Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:05 PM (#4373712)
If LeBron had made that running left-handed 3 they would have canceled the 4th quarter. Ok, maybe not.
   855. Squash Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:15 PM (#4373718)
Collectively, those trades moved the needle on future NBA championships 0.0%.

Hakim Warrick has made $17.2 million in his career. It's pretty amazing how much money you can make in the NBA or MLB simply by sticking around.
   856. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:32 PM (#4373721)
I feel lucky to watch LeBron right now.
   857. King Mekong Posted: February 22, 2013 at 01:36 AM (#4373751)
tony doin' work
   858. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 22, 2013 at 01:45 AM (#4373753)
I only watched the first quarter of the game but that was a pretty impressive win for the Spurs. They just steamrolled the Clippers in LA and Parker looks to have ate up Paul. The Heat and Spurs look like they are on a collision course.
   859. King Mekong Posted: February 22, 2013 at 02:07 AM (#4373755)
I never thought I'd say this, but he's arguably the best point guard in the league this season.
   860. Tripon Posted: February 22, 2013 at 02:54 AM (#4373760)

853. Meatwad for Pope Posted: February 21, 2013 at 10:33 PM (#4373707)
Does Rose's brother actually know what happens in the NBA? If the bulls were able to magically add someone who could be a legit 2 scorer and get them over the hump I would have to think they would have done so already. It's not easy to find guys like that.



Short answer: Probably not.

Longer answer: He's probably a mouthpiece for Rose, and this is just a thinly veiled way for Rose to air his frustrations and still look like a 'good guy'.
   861. Spivey Posted: February 22, 2013 at 09:38 AM (#4373793)
I didn't watch the Spurs/Clippers game, but what on earth happened? The box score suggests that Chris Paul had maybe the worst game of his career.
   862. zempf Posted: February 22, 2013 at 10:01 AM (#4373804)
Hakim Warrick has made $17.2 million in his career. It's pretty amazing how much money you can make in the NBA or MLB simply by sticking around.


Went to a Sixers/Grizzlies game a while back & we were marveling at the fact that Hamed Haddadi has made (including this year) $7.4 million in his career (and were making fun of his shooting in the warmups before the game). That's $9,013 per minute played or $27,407 per point scored. In summary, I wish I was 7'2".
   863. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 22, 2013 at 11:19 AM (#4373868)
It's misleading to look at those career earnings without at least attempting to adjust for the fact that those lifetime NBA earnings may have to last those guys for all of their post playing days.
   864. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 22, 2013 at 11:31 AM (#4373882)
I never thought I'd say this, but he's arguably the best point guard in the league this season.

He clearly dominated Paul last night, but let's not go overboard. Paul is still clearly better defensively, and Paul also leads Parker this year is nearly every advanced stat - PER, ORtg/DRtg, WS/48, Simple Rating - hell, he even leads him in WoW's garbage stat.

Short answer: Probably not.

Longer answer: He's probably a mouthpiece for Rose, and this is just a thinly veiled way for Rose to air his frustrations and still look like a 'good guy'.


Reggie was "managing" or whatever Derrick going way back, he was pretty much the only way the media got anything from the Roses during Derrick's college recruitment. So while it's easy to make fun of him because he's just Derrick's brother - like Marv and Steve did during the game - he clearly isn't just speaking his own mind without Derrick knowing.

As for the comments themselves...

What's the talk about the Bulls not putting talent around Rose? That's clearly not true. Even in that quote, the brother admits that Deng and Noah are good running mates. Boozer might not be living up to his contract, but they put the money on the table for the best guy who would take it from them. The one year he was healthy, they gave Miami a good run in the playoffs. They're a really good, well built team. The complaining should wait until they start doing unnecessarily cheap stuff again, not when they're re-signing Gibson, paying to keep Thibs, and not dumping Hamilton's salary.

As we went over in the offseason, every move they made was because they were being cheap. Letting Asik go, trading Korver for nothing, not picking up Watson and Brewer's options. They only didn't trade Rip because no one wanted him (and they didn't want to pay someone a first round pick to take him). So there's definitely reason for concern if you're following what they're doing and saying. They did make Thibs sweat his deal too.

---

Gosh, the Bulls are just flat out unwatchable now. I'm getting sucked in big time to the Blackhawks, so at least I don't have to watch college ball <shivers>.
   865. andrewberg Posted: February 22, 2013 at 12:38 PM (#4373988)
You think the Bulls are unwatchable? The Wolves beat Philly the other night while making only their first FGA in the 4th quarter. They won the game after shooting 1/13 in the 4th. It was atrocious.

It's probably a little too early to do this, but given most seem to think that Utah and LA will be the two teams competing for the 8th seed, these are my wild guesses about how their remaining games will go:

Utah: @LAC L, BOS W, ATL W, CHA W, @ MIL L, @CLE W, @CHI L, @NYK L, DET W, @OKC L, MEM W, NYK W, @HOU L, @SAS L, @DAL W, PHI W, PHO W, @POR W, BKN W, POR W, DEN W, NOR W, @ GSW L, OKC L, MIN W, @MIN W, @MEM L. 17-10

LAL: POR W, @DAL W, @DEN L, MIN W, ATL W, @ OKC L, @NOR W, TOR W, CHI W, @ORL W, @ATL L, @IND L, SAC W, @PHO W, WAS W, @GSW W, @MIN W, @MIL L, @SAC W, DAL W, MEM W, @LAC L, NOR W, @POR W, GSW W, SAS L, HOU W. 20-7

That would get Utah to 48-34 and LAL to 46-36, but those records look overly optimistic when I look at them. I might not have built in enough schedule losses.

   866. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 22, 2013 at 01:17 PM (#4374034)
You think the Bulls are unwatchable? The Wolves beat Philly the other night while making only their first FGA in the 4th quarter. They won the game after shooting 1/13 in the 4th. It was atrocious.

The Bulls scored 67 points on 37% shooting and had 26 turnovers. They scored 13 points in the 2nd and 4th quarters. In that Wolves game you mentioned, they won, they scored 94 in the game and 18 in the 4th*, and only had 15 TOs. So while your team's season has clearly been worse and more disappointing, I still say the Bulls were a worse watch.

Damn, 44 FTA. That's not fun to watch, for sure.

---

As for your W/L projections, right now, the Bucks are bad. I wouldn't assume they're going to beat either team. I also see more W's that could be L's on the Utah line.
   867. Booey Posted: February 22, 2013 at 01:28 PM (#4374043)
#865 - Yeah, I think both those predictions are a little optimistic. You pretty much predicted them to win every game that they statistically SHOULD win, but neither of those teams are consistent enough to win all the games they should (but they both absolutely could LOSE all the games they should).

That said, I've thought all along that the two Jazz wins vs the Lakers early in the year when LA was struggling that gave Utah the tie breaker were important beyond just the joy of seeing my team beat a hated rival. Likewise, I have March 20th in Houston (Rockets lead 2-1) and April 7th in GS (tied 1-1) circled on my mental calendar. All four of these teams could finish with virtually identical records and it could very well come down to tie-breakers to determine who misses out on the honor of getting pasted in the first round.
   868. JJ1986 Posted: February 22, 2013 at 09:29 PM (#4374410)
The Magic bench tonight is Kyle O'Quinn and DeQuan Jones. The starters are going to log a lot of minutes.
   869. Spivey Posted: February 22, 2013 at 10:18 PM (#4374422)
Joakim Noah has more assists per game than Nate Robinson.
   870. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: February 22, 2013 at 11:27 PM (#4374440)
Rose needs to remember that he decided he didn't need to recruit players to come to chicago, and that he could take them there on his own. If like his brother said doesnt think the bulls havent done enough to help him.
   871. RollingWave Posted: February 22, 2013 at 11:31 PM (#4374446)
So both Lin and Harden didn't play well in Brooklyn... of course then Delfino catch fire and their undermanned bench shot 15 for 20.

Not having Joe Johnson obviously hurted them , but boy when things go right for Houston they really go right.
   872. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 22, 2013 at 11:35 PM (#4374448)
[871] Refs swalllowed their whistles on a lot of Harden's drives. He played better than it looks.
   873. Booey Posted: February 23, 2013 at 03:42 AM (#4374497)
Saw a few minutes of the GS/SA game, and I couldn't get past one thing - are those the Warriors real home uniforms? T-shirts? Really? My hell, what a JV looking eyesore...
   874. RollingWave Posted: February 23, 2013 at 03:49 AM (#4374498)
i guess the plan is to make it so bad that it distract their opponents...
   875. Maxwn Posted: February 23, 2013 at 05:19 AM (#4374500)
If the Nuggets are going to be doing #### like losing to the Wizards, on the road or not, they ain't going to be catching the Grizzlies.

Edit: Says a man whose team beat a short-handed Magic team at home by 6.
   876. Maxwn Posted: February 23, 2013 at 05:26 AM (#4374501)
If the Nuggets are going to be doing #### like losing to the Wizards, on the road or not, they ain't going to be catching the Grizzlies.
   877. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 23, 2013 at 06:53 AM (#4374504)
[876] Yeah...granted, the Wizards have been solidly mediocre since Wall's return, but point well made.
   878. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 23, 2013 at 07:33 AM (#4374507)
Simmons has a pretty good podcast up with Bill Fitch. Fitch's coaching prime was before my time, but I enjoyed listening.
   879. King Mekong Posted: February 23, 2013 at 10:06 AM (#4374535)
864 - yeah Parker's argument over Chris Paul this season would be based entirely on the minutes advantage. Parker has played around 20% more minutes than Paul. Might be enough to erase the rate differences between them. I think in this season it does.
   880. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 23, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4374608)
I'm okay with the sleeves, but they're bad uniforms.
   881. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 23, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4374619)
864 - yeah Parker's argument over Chris Paul this season would be based entirely on the minutes advantage. Parker has played around 20% more minutes than Paul. Might be enough to erase the rate differences between them. I think in this season it does.
well, there's also the 5 points per 36 minute advantage that parker has over paul, in addition to shooting 54% from the field compared to chris paul's 48%.
   882. King Mekong Posted: February 23, 2013 at 01:25 PM (#4374628)
881 - yeah, but their true shooting percentage is basically identical .598 to .594 (Parker with the slight edge). The more points per 36 is nice and is another point in favor of parker.
   883. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 23, 2013 at 01:30 PM (#4374630)
I watch a lot of Temple games and it seems like 80% of their players wear sleeved Under Armour things under their jerseys, but still it's surprising to see sleeves as part of the official uniform.
   884. andrewberg Posted: February 23, 2013 at 05:48 PM (#4374918)
I heard someone make the point that the sleeved jerseys are a marketing movement because you can sell more t-shirt replicas to fans than you can tank tops. It makes sense, but it is too bad that the first ones they introduced are hideous, sleeves or no.
   885. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: February 23, 2013 at 10:10 PM (#4374988)
864 - yeah Parker's argument over Chris Paul this season would be based entirely on the minutes advantage. Parker has played around 20% more minutes than Paul. Might be enough to erase the rate differences between them. I think in this season it does.

I think that's a slightly different argument though - value, I guess. Paul's still the better player - again, it's not really that close on the defensive end. And for what it's worth, even with the minute difference they both have exactly 8.8 win shares. It's still just a race to 3rd place at best in the MVP voting for the 2 of them.

well, there's also the 5 points per 36 minute advantage that parker has over paul, in addition to shooting 54% from the field compared to chris paul's 48%.

And Paul has a 2/ast advantage per 36, but so (he also gets more steals, more rebounds and turns it over less)? They're all just components of the other stats that all favor Paul.
   886. RollingWave Posted: February 23, 2013 at 10:36 PM (#4374998)
Wizards are turning into a real playoff team killer aren't they, they just beat Houston again tonight by 1 point.

Granted, part of that was Lin and Asik completely going ice cold and that playing under manned 3 strait game is bound to catch up to them, but boy....

At least Montejunas continues to impress, he even grabbed 6 boards today. and a 7 footer with a quick 3 is pretty close to being undefendable.

   887. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 24, 2013 at 12:05 AM (#4375018)
I watched Rockets-Wiz tonight (am now watching closely the games of teams in front of the Lakers), and I'm really, really impressed with Bradley Beal. He looks like Eric Gordon to me, and if that's the case then Beal + Wall is going to be a lot of fun to watch.
   888. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 24, 2013 at 12:12 AM (#4375020)
I asked this question before the season started.

Does anyone else think that LeBron is going to have a significantly better year than he has ever had before? He's in his prime with arguably the most talented team he's ever been on. There's no question who "The Man" in Miami as there may have been the past two years. He's more comfortable in the post where he could be unstoppable. No pressure regarding winning a championship. I know this is a lot of armchair psychology and I am wondering if anyone else was thinking that way.


I'd like to revisit it. I think if he plays the rest of the season the way he has played the last month or so, I think I would say that this has been his best season.
   889. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 24, 2013 at 12:26 AM (#4375023)
That's a lot to ask, though. And, by ws/48 and per (among other über stats), his #s this year are a bit behind what he did in 08-09 with Cleveland.
This might be LeBron's best season, but that's not obviously apparent.
   890. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 24, 2013 at 12:36 AM (#4375026)
By the way, on the recent Rosé comments... could it be that fear of upsetting Derrick was the reason they kept Rip (and will now pay tax)?
   891. Booey Posted: February 24, 2013 at 01:58 AM (#4375041)
Jazz swept in the season series vs the Clippers. Never thought I'd live to see that happen. Kinda hard to win when 3 of your starters go scoreless.

And why in the name of all that is good and holy is Marvin Williams still starting over Hayward or Favors?

That is all.
   892. King Mekong Posted: February 24, 2013 at 04:50 PM (#4375278)
885 - yeah, I think this season it's very close between paul and parker with westbrook a distant third. It will be interesting to see which of them finishes best the end of the season. Agreed that it is really a race for 3rd, as Durant and James are pretty clearly 1A 1B at this point (I'd take james with the slight edge, but again it's pretty close and how they finish the season will largely determine who gets the nod). More interesting would be if Paul was healthy all season. He might've been right up there and by ws/48 he is nipping at Durants heels...
   893. STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 24, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4375281)
By the way, on the recent Rosé comments... could it be that fear of upsetting Derrick was the reason they kept Rip (and will now pay tax)?
is there anyone who would actually want him?
   894. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: February 24, 2013 at 06:49 PM (#4375333)
If you price him right, yup. Only a mil of Rip's contract next year is guaranteed and the Bulls looked as if they've been setting themselves up all year for that move (to not pay tax).
   895. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 24, 2013 at 07:14 PM (#4375343)
Given Mark Cuban's comments on amnestying Kobe this week, the ending of today's game was wholly predictable.

Also, GSW's had two really gritty wins in a row now while Utah and Houston lost last night (a good weekend for LAL). There was a lot of talk about GSW perhaps slipping backwards after the break, but so far so good for the Warriors. Yeah, it was just the Wolves, but that's still a road win, and all road wins are extra good.
   896. robinred Posted: February 24, 2013 at 07:25 PM (#4375347)
Tweets All / No replies
38 secs Kobe Bryant ?@kobebryant
Amnesty THAT
   897. robinred Posted: February 24, 2013 at 07:28 PM (#4375349)
Golden State does in fact deserve credit for getting their most recent two wins. On another note, while I see the marketing value of them, count me as aesthetically opposed to the sleeved jerseys. I am basically a get-off-my-lawn guy when it comes to uniforms. Don't like alternates, don't like visiting team wearing home unis etc. Have never liked the Lakers' Sunday home whites.
   898. Maxwn Posted: February 24, 2013 at 10:01 PM (#4375403)
Mike Tirico, at least I think it's Tirico, was just talking about the Grizzlies and the Rudy Gay trade during this MEM-BKN game. He's asking Hubie what he thinks and sets it up by saying roughly "a lot of people think that Chris Wallace had really put something together with the defeat of the #1 Spurs and taking OKC to 7, that the Gasol-Randolph-Gay group was really a special group." Now, if you think that the Grizz gave up some sort of shot at making a run by trading Rudy, fair enough, I don't really think so, but it's certainly one interpretation. But the run they made 2 years ago cannot be your only data point in favor of that argument, because it has nothing to do with the Rudy Gay Grizzlies. Rudy missed that entire postseason. That run was actually made by what I think of as a less deep version of this team they have right now.

Anyway, doesn't really matter, but it irritated me to hear a national TV guy make some sort of point about the Grizzlies worsened playoff chances without Rudy Gay by referencing a playoff run that they made without Rudy Gay.
   899. Maxwn Posted: February 24, 2013 at 10:12 PM (#4375404)
double post
   900. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: February 24, 2013 at 11:29 PM (#4375431)
This bulls thunder game will get ugly soon...bulls dont stand a chance against them.
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