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Saturday, February 02, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - February 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: abstinence and William Howard Taft.

The District Attorney Posted: February 02, 2013 at 11:56 AM | 1151 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   901. RollingWave Posted: February 24, 2013 at 11:46 PM (#4375438)
it looks like GSW's grand plan of having awful jerseys to distract their opponents is working well!

Meanwhile, McHale says that Jeremy Lin's basically been playing sick in the last two games, which explain his suckitude during that stretch I guess. and it probably cost them yesterday's close game against the Wizards, though they have an extremely favorable stretch coming up. and will mercifully finally have the guys they traded for available . (i'd think Garcia will probably see playing time pretty soon, not sure about Robinson. though I'd think if they just tell him to stop shooting and grab boards he'd be instantly more useful.) as the Kings took their sweet time taking the physicals. (or maybe they don't have any physician on payroll so they had to wait for an appointment or something ;))

Lin's 3p% development per month is very encouraging though.

Nov .263
Dec .292
Jan .327
Feb .452

He's basically gone from god awful to damn good in the stretch of a few month. guess the knee really was still bothering him early on.

Few other notes: Royce White 's recent couple games in the D-League have been god awful, guess all that tweeting and not practicing is catching up to him. I am mildly intrigued by Glen Rice Jr though, he's not consistent at all but he seem to have a legit shot and is pretty tall for a SG (6-6). with pretty good athleticism, seem like a potential volume shooting guard in the making?

Though between him and Royce White, that's some pretty serious personal issue collection down there.


   902. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 25, 2013 at 12:32 AM (#4375447)
LeBron and Durant are, unsurprisingly, 1-2 in the league in WS. Guess who's #3?

***

I was a big proponent of Rice at GT (on the court, anyway) and had pegged him as a sleeper to do well in the D-League. He seemed to take off for Rio Grande with the call-up of Chris Johnson to the T-Wolves - in part it was getting fed minutes and touches, in part he may have benefited from spending time as an undersized three.
For the unfamiliar, he's not like his dad - an erratic shooter, but a capable passer, good rebounder, and able defender. (Also, he's getting loads of blocks this year, kinda weird for a wing.) If he'll buy into the role, he could be a real asset at the next level as a do everything energy guy off the bench. Left school early after getting kicked off a college team that really need him (he was their best player) - was unable to find a school (afaict) to take him on for his senior year.
   903. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: February 25, 2013 at 12:39 AM (#4375450)
LeBron and Durant are, unsurprisingly, 1-2 in the league in WS. Guess who's #3?


Is it Tyson Chandler?

edit: no -- though Chandler is 6th in the league
   904. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 25, 2013 at 12:44 AM (#4375453)
LeBron and Durant are, unsurprisingly, 1-2 in the league in WS. Guess who's #3?


Tim Duncan?

EDIT: Not even close

EDIT 2: Damn, I should have known that one.
   905. robinred Posted: February 25, 2013 at 12:55 AM (#4375455)
Either Paul or Harden. Probably Harden, since that would be the surprise answer. As I have said many times, I think OKC will feel Harden's absence in the money games, beginning in RD 2.
   906. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 25, 2013 at 12:57 AM (#4375456)
I thought the rest of 902 was indicating that Glen Rice Jr. is #3 in win shares.
   907. RollingWave Posted: February 25, 2013 at 01:14 AM (#4375461)
Yikes, I knew Harden was good but thought his D would have taken a bit more toll on his WS then that.

Also, Chandler Parson's #2 on the Rockets WS, that's pretty scary considering how this guy is getting paid pennies.

You'd figure the Rockets almost certainly try to make a play for one of the big 3 FA this off season no? especially Bynum or Howard. I suppose Paul could work too but that's a bit more tricky.

   908. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 25, 2013 at 01:21 AM (#4375464)
Yup, it's Glen Rice Jr. I mean Harden. I'd've thought the iffy team D would've hurt him more as well (WS doesn't know that Harden takes plays off, that Asik makes up for some of that, etc...).

Big FA: I'm sure HOU will chat 'em up.
   909. RollingWave Posted: February 25, 2013 at 01:26 AM (#4375466)
edit: stupid double post
   910. RollingWave Posted: February 25, 2013 at 01:35 AM (#4375468)
wtf triple post?
   911. Maxwn Posted: February 25, 2013 at 01:35 AM (#4375469)
Quick check-in on the Clips-Grizz race for 3rd. Grizzlies are now 1.5 back - even in the loss column. They play each other on March 13th. In between now and then, the Grizz play DAL, @MIA, @ORL, POR, @CLE, NOH, @POR. It's a bit road heavy, but outside of the MIA game, none of those teams are above .500. The Clips play CHA, @IND, @CLE, OKC, MIL, @DEN, DET. 4 home against 3 away, but @IND, OKC, and @DEN are going to be really tough games.

I say all that to say this - the Grizzlies need to go about 6-1 leading into that Clippers game. If they do that, they could be within a .5 game or maybe even up on the Clippers. And that is important because the @POR, @LAC sequence is a back-to-back that is the first half of an all-road 4-in-5 that concludes with @DEN, @UTA. Dropping the last 3 of those games would not be surprising at all. UTA, LAC, and DEN have lost 15 games combined at home all year. Portland is actually pretty good at home too for that matter. If they're still 1.5-2 back or worse when they play the Clippers, they could easily be 3-4-5 back 4 days later. If that happens, their shot at the 3 seed will probably be gone.
   912. The District Attorney Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:00 AM (#4375475)
I would like to know where all the "Grizzlies can go all the way with this team" people were in between early December and the Gay trade. They were sure awfully quiet.

Re: Glen Rice Jr.: Bristol Palin is single again, right?...
   913. Maxwn Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:24 AM (#4375484)
I would like to know where all the "Grizzlies can go all the way with this team" people were in between early December and the Gay trade. They were sure awfully quiet.

To be fair, I'm not really sure that's what anyone is saying now either. It seems to be more of they were a fringey sort of contender that might catch some breaks and go deep. I think that was a pretty good description of the team. The difference between me and some of the people who didn't like the trade is that I think it's still basically an accurate description and I'm increasingly skeptical that the Gay trade actually moved the needle on their chances, which aren't great. If anything I think it might have helped.

Honestly, the people who have pushed the narrative that the Gay trade threw away some chance of playoff run have mostly seemed to me to be national mainstream-type commentators who just needed something to say about them after this trade went down. I haven't seen too much from anyone that would make me think "this guy actually thinks the Grizz had some sort of real championship shot before they traded Rudy." At most I think there are people who saw them as a team, that because of their play-style and the way they have gone out the last two years, might be a really tough out that could go deeper than people think and now don't have that chance without Gay. But some of them are sort of talking about it in a way that makes it sound like they actually thought the Grizz had more than a puncher's chance before.
   914. The District Attorney Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:31 AM (#4375487)
OKC bringing back Derek Fisher. I guess that might help.
   915. RollingWave Posted: February 25, 2013 at 04:22 AM (#4375496)
I'm unfamiliar with how the D-league works in the NBA, for a guy like Glen Rice that was drafted by the Vipers themselves , he can technically be sold / signed by any team ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OLK4t9Q_sxk#t=0s

Also, in the latest Viper game, he did this. that's some pretty serious elevation, though i think with that sort of show boating he's going to get punch in the face by someone soon.

   916. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 25, 2013 at 07:40 AM (#4375509)
Any NBA team can get any d league guy, so long as he's not a nba player that has been assigned there (like white).
Rice was one of 4 guys in their dunk contest a week back...

Fisher: I shouldn't have been surprised I guess but ... really?
   917. RollingWave Posted: February 25, 2013 at 08:57 AM (#4375524)
Fisher : the NBA version's Roger Clemens
   918. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 25, 2013 at 09:30 AM (#4375534)
The problem with having Fisher on your roster is that you might use him.
   919. The District Attorney Posted: February 25, 2013 at 10:00 AM (#4375539)
Fisher : the NBA version's Omar Vizquel
fixed
   920. Spivey Posted: February 25, 2013 at 10:28 AM (#4375548)
On the one hand, Fisher is terrible and this is a terrible decision. On the other hand, I guess at least Maynor was so bad that it won't change their backup PG production much.
   921. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 25, 2013 at 11:28 AM (#4375590)
Fisher : the NBA version's Omar Vizquel

More of a backup catcher - Pat Borders?
   922. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4375596)
If you price him right, yup. Only a mil of Rip's contract next year is guaranteed and the Bulls looked as if they've been setting themselves up all year for that move (to not pay tax).

If the Bulls wanted, they could have sent money with Rip that pretty much would have covered his salary the rest of this year and the buyout for next. Not that I think Jerry would do that, but it wasn't rumored; it was rumored that Denver wanted him and wanted a first round pick to take him off the Bulls hands. The Bulls passed.

OKC bringing back Derek Fisher. I guess that might help.

Doesn't he need to be in the league to stay as head of the union from the players side?
   923. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM (#4375609)
If the Bulls wanted, they could have sent money with Rip that pretty much would have covered his salary the rest of this year and the buyout for next. Not that I think Jerry would do that, but it wasn't rumored; it was rumored that Denver wanted him and wanted a first round pick to take him off the Bulls hands. The Bulls passed.


Exactly - I thought that that was what they'd do. (A move like that, at least - sending a first + some $.) I guess this way they can say 'we paid tax'?

Fisher could go straight to management, couldn't he? (If they wanted him...)
   924. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 25, 2013 at 01:06 PM (#4375651)
Exactly - I thought that that was what they'd do. (A move like that, at least - sending a first + some $.) I guess this way they can say 'we paid tax'?

I guess that's possibly where the negotiations could have broke down. If the Bulls were paying everything owed Rip, I could see them not wanting to include a pick. They'd only send the pick if they weren't sending money.
   925. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 25, 2013 at 01:12 PM (#4375656)
But they're now also paying tax.
Granted, I'd haven't done the math to see what they'd save/spend - I was just surprised. They didn't have to play footsie with Fesenko, etc... granted, that means spending money as well.
   926. andrewberg Posted: February 25, 2013 at 01:16 PM (#4375661)
the people who have pushed the narrative that the Gay trade threw away some chance of playoff run have mostly seemed to me to be national mainstream-type commentators who just needed something to say about them after this trade went down


Gay also seems fairly popular, so I doubt anyone wanted to point out that the team is basically just as good without him. The MSM doesn't usually trash stars to that degree (they might say that players' attitudes kill teams, but not that they aren't as talented as everyone thinks).

More of a backup catcher - Pat Borders?


I'd compare him to Matt Stairs.
   927. andrewberg Posted: February 25, 2013 at 01:18 PM (#4375663)
I guess this way they can say 'we paid tax'?


Is it just me, or are teams making a really big deal out of the repeater penalty way before it should be a concern? I have heard that penalty used as an explanation for several moves or possible moves when teams could wait until they're actually in danger of repeatedly being in the tax before scrambling to get under it.

I guess it could just be a PR justification for not wanting to pay the tax this year.
   928. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 25, 2013 at 01:53 PM (#4375684)
Fisher: I like the idea of PG = C, as game managers.

Haberstroh on LBJ as elite jump shooter. ($) Two bits of trivia from the piece: LeBron has more shot attempts from outside ten feet than the other nine guys in the league's top 10 for FG% put together - and - of the 28 guys who have taken 400 or more Js this year, LeBron leads them all in FG% on jumpers.

Aldridge says that the Wiz and Clips agreed on an Ariza for Caron Butler swap, nixed by Sterling. (There's other interesting stuff there as well, no surprise considering the source.)
   929. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:03 PM (#4375691)
According to Basketball Reference's Simple Rating System, the Suns are having their worst season since their first, in 1968-69.
   930. The District Attorney Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:04 PM (#4375692)
Yeah, I was trying to come up with a baseball Fisher -- a guy who was a role player on a bunch of championship teams, and then sticks around as a "leader" long after his playing ability has evaporated -- and couldn't really. I can think of guys like Vizquel, Kendall, and Julio Franco who pulled off the second part, but it's surprising how little that correlates with having won championships (in fact, if I'm not mistaken, those three combine for zero rings.)

Of course, in baseball, 1) there are fewer multi-time championship teams to begin with, and 2) individual players have less responsibility -- it'd be more logical to give Fisher credit for Lakers' wins (especially since he did hit some big shots...) than to give credit for Yankees' wins to Francisco Cervelli. Still, I was surprised I couldn't come up with anyone who fit the bill (although I bet there are some).
   931. andrewberg Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4375695)
How about Joe Girardi?
   932. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4375701)
Aldridge says that the Wiz and Clips agreed on an Ariza for Caron Butler swap, nixed by Sterling. (There's other interesting stuff there as well, no surprise considering the source.)


The first time I saw this I read it as "nixed by Stern," and I was wondering why the hell the commissioner would get involved in a Butler-Ariza trade.
   933. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:13 PM (#4375704)
I was wondering why the hell the commissioner would get involved in a Butler-Ariza trade.
Basketball reasons, duh.
   934. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:16 PM (#4375705)
Haberstroh on LBJ as elite jump shooter. ($) Two bits of trivia from the piece: LeBron has more shot attempts from outside ten feet than the other nine guys in the league's top 10 for FG% put together - and - of the 28 guys who have taken 400 or more Js this year, LeBron leads them all in FG% on jumpers.

I was wondering about this the other day. LeBron is shooting over 56% despite taking over 18% of his attempts as 3's. Does anyone have an easy way to find out what the highest FG% ever is for someone who takes, say, at least one 3 every 6 shots?
   935. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4375710)
Yeah, I was trying to come up with a baseball Fisher -- a guy who was a role player on a bunch of championship teams, and then sticks around as a "leader" long after his playing ability has evaporated -- and couldn't really. I can think of guys like Vizquel, Kendall, and Julio Franco who pulled off the second part, but it's surprising how little that correlates with having won championships (in fact, if I'm not mistaken, those three combine for zero rings.)


david eckstein seems like a solid comp.
   936. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:36 PM (#4375725)
Rose update: he can dunk again.

Dunk update: LeBron is very good at it (skip to 35 seconds in).
   937. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:39 PM (#4375728)
I was wondering about this the other day. LeBron is shooting over 56% despite taking over 18% of his attempts as 3's. Does anyone have an easy way to find out what the highest FG% ever is for someone who takes, say, at least one 3 every 6 shots?


As a proxy, all players with >52% FG% and >2 3PA/G.

The best two season by this are Barkley - although in both of his seasons he only had ~13% of his shots as threes, more like 1 in 7 or 1 in 8. Then again, he also shot 22 and 28% from 3 in those seasons. Chuck really should have stuck to twos.

Parsing this list a bit more, for >800 FGA in a season and 15% of FGA as 3PA, you get Stockton at .538 on 27% 3PA in '96 followed by Mullin at .536 at 18% 3PA in '90. Obviously, Lebron's at .567 on 19% 3PA gives you a sense of the kind of season he's having, efficiency wise.
   938. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: February 25, 2013 at 02:45 PM (#4375732)
still doesnt seem fully confident doing that but it is a good sign
   939. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: February 25, 2013 at 03:59 PM (#4375786)
Parsing this list a bit more, for >800 FGA in a season and 15% of FGA as 3PA, you get Stockton at .538 on 27% 3PA in '96 followed by Mullin at .536 at 18% 3PA in '90.

Mullin's '96 is just under 800 FGA (792), but it's over 25% 3's and 55% shooting, which is pretty unbelievable as well. Stockton in '95 and '97 was also within 50 attempts of 800 at similar rates.

Of course, Stockton was taking 10 shots per game; LeBron is taking 18.
   940. andrewberg Posted: February 25, 2013 at 05:15 PM (#4375850)
What do the non-Chicago people think of Rose coming back this year? I think that he should be back as soon as the doctors say he is fully ready to return. It is possible that there is a much higher risk of reinjury in the period immediately after a player returns, but I tend to think that the risk is built into the recovery timetable (ie- that doctors make a guy rehab until the risk is not that much more than normal). Rose and the Bulls are good enough that I do not think it is worth wasting a year of potential contention to minimally reduce the risk of reinjury.
   941. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 25, 2013 at 05:38 PM (#4375867)
What do the non-Chicago people think of Rose coming back this year?


My opinion, as a Celtics fan who wants Rose in the league for a long time, largely hinges on the risk you discuss. If there is a significantly larger risk of reinjury to coming back this season as opposed to waiting for next season, I absolutely do not want him to risk it. If there isn't, I would love to see what he could do to the Eastern Conference playoffs, even at 80% (or whatever). I don't know that Rose needs to wait until he's completely 100% to come back, but I would rather he (and the Bulls) err on the side of protecting his long-term health if there's a conflict there.
   942. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 25, 2013 at 06:04 PM (#4375897)
What do the non-Chicago people think of Rose coming back this year? I think that he should be back as soon as the doctors say he is fully ready to return. It is possible that there is a much higher risk of reinjury in the period immediately after a player returns, but I tend to think that the risk is built into the recovery timetable (ie- that doctors make a guy rehab until the risk is not that much more than normal). Rose and the Bulls are good enough that I do not think it is worth wasting a year of potential contention to minimally reduce the risk of reinjury.
i would disagree with the bolded statement. the bulls have no offense, and getting rose in the lineup at 80% doesn't meaningfully change that. they are not a good team.

they're a highly motivated team, which is a credit to the butcher, but they're just not talented. even compared to past years, they don't korver or asik or brewer, and i think rose is 100% right that he should sit out until he's fully himself again.



i'll tell you this, it's seriously frustrating to think that rose could be in the lineup this week despite tearing his ACL 9 months ago, whereas andrew bynum is still not even practicing because he might have mildly sprained his knee 6 months ago. i'm not gonna #### on him if he really does have an injury, but it ####### sucks to have to follow the sixers right now.

jesus ####### christ, he's bane.
   943. andrewberg Posted: February 25, 2013 at 06:13 PM (#4375904)
Edit: post error.
   944. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 25, 2013 at 06:32 PM (#4375921)
i would disagree with the bolded statement. the bulls have no offense, and getting rose in the lineup at 80% doesn't meaningfully change that.

This underestimates how terrible Kirk Hinrich is. Rose at 10% is an upgrade on Hinrich.

they're a highly motivated team, which is a credit to the butcher, but they're just not talented. even compared to past years, they don't korver or asik or brewer, and i think rose is 100% right that he should sit out until he's fully himself again.

I've said this before, but the idea that their talent is lacking because Korver or Brewer are gone is silly - hell, Butler is better than Brewer (they do miss Korver's 3pt shooting which has had a domino affect on the rest of the team but he isn't the difference on any team). I'll give you Asik, but we're not talking about replacing significant minutes here (Noah's replaced most of them, and at a higher level than what Asik gave the Bulls). Going to my previous point, losing Watson might be the most significant loss from last year considering how bad (and hurt) Hinrich has been, but NateRob has done just fine in the scoring guard off the bench role.

If one believes the Bulls weren't that good when healthy either of the last 2 years, you're not going to believe that they're going to be good this year when healthy. I think that's a perfectly reasonable position, but I do not think there's a significant non-Rose* reason to downgrade this year's team compared to the last 2.

*I think the schedule and their consistent effort made their offense better relative to everyone else during last year's compressed schedule, so even with Rose they weren't going to be a top 5 ORtg team again.
   945. RollingWave Posted: February 25, 2013 at 09:45 PM (#4376021)
Well just as we were discussing the Vipers and D-league yesterday , today the Rockets announce that they signed Tim Ohlbrecht from the Vipers to a deal (3 years, 2 team option) . interesting choice, though Ohlbrecht was obviously one of the best player down there not already on their roster, doesn't he just kinda bring the same thing Montejunas does though ? (except more defensive oriented I guess. ) they're both PF / C tweener in a sense. and both have good jump shots you generally expect from European players. though D-Mo has a much better offensive game as a whole.

Still it is amusing to see the Rocket's nearly all white front court though.

   946. RollingWave Posted: February 26, 2013 at 01:57 AM (#4376099)
Lakers lost to the Nuggets ( in Denver, surprise!) and the Celtics beat the Jazz in OT, good day for the Rockets in general, now Jazz lead over them is a mere half game and the Lakers are again 3 back .

BTW, if John Wall wasn't hurt most of the Year the Wizards would have so easily made the playoffs. on the bright side they get another high pick probably which should guarantee a run next year barring more injuries.
   947. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 26, 2013 at 02:43 AM (#4376107)
Yeah, that was one of those scheduled losses on the Laker calendar they couldn't afford to give up. It just goes to show that, for all the fears non-Laker fans have of this team rising up, the hole they've dug is too deep, and they're just not who we though they were.

D12, 3-14 from the line. Un. #######. Believable.
   948. RollingWave Posted: February 26, 2013 at 03:53 AM (#4376120)
3-14? wow.

When are they going to force some of those guys to start using the underhand FTs?

   949. AROM Posted: February 26, 2013 at 11:28 AM (#4376242)
We all know how much Bill Russell dominated when he joined a mostly white, nowhere near as athletic league in 1956. Would he be able to dominate on defense if a 21 year old Bill Russell stepped into a hot tub and accidently turned the dial up to 2013?

This video makes me think he just might have.

Should have finished with a dunk though. Had he done that, Tom Chambers would have been derivative.
   950. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 26, 2013 at 11:38 AM (#4376246)
HUAL recently talked briefly about underhanded free throws. The one Barry who stuck with it (stepbrother of the famous ones, who mostly hate their dad and didn't want to honor him, afaict) had to adjust his form in order to deal with the baggier outfits of today.

Just imagine what Russell could have done if he could shoot the ball.

@ZachLowe_NBA: Rudy Gay is shooting 37.5 percent, and 26.1 % from three, as a Raptor.
@tomhaberstroh: NBA's 2nd-most FGA per game since trade.
   951. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: February 26, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4376381)
Zach Lowe with an in-depth look at the league's most fun team:
Robinson is not a 3-point shooter, and the coaches don't yet know what to do with him. Learning the playbook is not an issue, because Houston doesn't really have a playbook. "We don't have to stop practice and say, 'OK, now let's go over our plays,'" Sampson says. "We don't have any plays. During the flow of the game, very rarely do we run an actual play."
   952. Jimmy P Posted: February 26, 2013 at 02:26 PM (#4376387)
Zach Lowe with an in-depth look at the league's most fun team:


Kevin McHale takes a lot of crap because he was a terrible GM. But the guy has always been a good coach.
   953. andrewberg Posted: February 26, 2013 at 04:29 PM (#4376479)
"We don't have to stop practice and say, 'OK, now let's go over our plays,'" Sampson says. "We don't have any plays. During the flow of the game, very rarely do we run an actual play."


No offense, Kelvin, but anyone who has watched you play already knew that.
   954. JC in DC Posted: February 26, 2013 at 04:40 PM (#4376493)
That Bill Russell video makes you wonder if given the way the game's played now, he might not have been LeBron. Good left-handed handle, and his strides just eat up the court.
   955. Jimmy P Posted: February 26, 2013 at 04:50 PM (#4376508)
Coach K is stepping down as national team coach.
   956. smileyy Posted: February 26, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4376516)
[954] Hard to say how he'd comp, growing up with more options for a 6'9" guy. I could see him pioneering the chasedown block, that's for sure.

Would he take advantage of a modern emphasis on strength training and diet, and end up the size of LeBron? Would he have extended his range to 25' and been along the lines of a Durant?

Garnett seems like a possible comp -- floor-spacing forward, defensive anchor and help-side defender. Would people prefer Russell's game or Garnett's (I realize that they probably couldn't exist contemporaneously).
   957. andrewberg Posted: February 26, 2013 at 06:17 PM (#4376592)
It seems like the big difference between KG and Russell is offensive efficiency. KG is obviously a much better shooter by reputation, by statistics, and by what little I have seen of game film on Russell. I know that the league shooting numbers were much lower in his day, so I would be interested to see how far above/below league average he was from the floor and compare that to KG's shooting relative to league average. Regardless, it is clear that KG shot better- from distance, from the line (in comparable attempts before he stopped attacking the basket in Boston), and as an overall player. Both were good passers for big men and dominated the boards (KG led the league in D-REB 5 times and REB 2 times, Russell led in REB 4 times and they were not parsed by O/D).

Russell gets a ton of credit for being a monster on defense. We can speculate about what KG would have done defensively if he played in that era, but he doesn't get credit for what he could have done hypothetically. Russell made the most of his ability to dominate in the era and deserves the glory that goes with it. Interestingly enough, they both ranged from about 11-18 in their prime years for total Win Shares, but the breakdown skewed slightly toward offense for Garnett and HEAVILY toward defense for Russell. It is hard to imagine someone being that prolific with such an enormous split now. Howard is the closest thing with slightly more D-WS and totals around 13-14 in his best seasons (Camby only broke double figures once, Mutombo twice, Chandler once, and none with the high total or skew that Russell had).
   958. AROM Posted: February 26, 2013 at 06:42 PM (#4376611)
I don't know how you can look at Russell and think he'd develop offensive game along the lines of Durante/Lebron. Russell could not shoot. His ft% only looks OK next to Wilt. His FG% was, I think, better than league average but I don't think he had any range. He was getting 20+ boards every night, and some of those had to provide him with easy putbacks. Celtics ran all the time, because that was what you did back then. While Russell is famous for starting the break and throwing outlet passes, he could obviously have beaten almost any big man down the court and likely did some finishing.

Finally, there's the lost art of post offense. Russell often passed from the post, but I'm sure he had a few hook shots thrown in as well. I kind of doubt he had any kind of jumper at all, but I never saw him play and could be wrong.
   959. AROM Posted: February 26, 2013 at 06:47 PM (#4376619)
One thing that would change if Russell played today is that the Celtics could not keep as many stars as they did. At some point they'd have to pick which ones you can give a max deal to and which ones to let go. At that point Russell would be asked to carry more of the offensive load. My guess is the result would look like Dwight Howard, but with better ball handling, passing, and less bullchette.
   960. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 26, 2013 at 07:48 PM (#4376671)
I don't know how you can look at Russell and think he'd develop offensive game along the lines of Durante/Lebron. Russell could not shoot.


Was Russell ever really taught to shoot? It's my impression that the shooting big man is largely a recent development in the game, where in the dark ages big men fought hand-to-hand in the trenches and left the perimeter to smaller guys. I could be mistake, but I thought this was the flipside of the lost art of post offense, that perimeter skills in big men are much better than they used to be. It seems like a player like Russell would likely play more in open space in today's game than he did back in his day. The same way he had to fight coaches to leave his feet to block shots coming up, I imagine he got yelled at for playing offense beyond the post. I think the KG comp seems sound, but I really don't know how you would even really hazard much of a guess of what Russell could/could not have done in today's game. I don't know that he would have ever shot like LeBron or Kevin Love, but he could well have developed a fairly different offensive skillset during his adolescence.
   961. andrewberg Posted: February 26, 2013 at 07:53 PM (#4376674)
The only guy who comes to mind is Bob Pettit, a slightly earlier contemporary who had a good midrange jumper.
   962. RollingWave Posted: February 26, 2013 at 08:56 PM (#4376710)
Russell : who knows really, if he was born today there was also a realistic chance that he played more ball earlier in his life and end up being at least a somewhat better shot or that he was a inch or 3 taller because of the difference in nutrition etc.

Robinson is not a 3-point shooter, and the coaches don't yet know what to do with him. Learning the playbook is not an issue, because Houston doesn't really have a playbook. "We don't have to stop practice and say, 'OK, now let's go over our plays,'" Sampson says. "We don't have any plays. During the flow of the game, very rarely do we run an actual play."


While I love a free flow offense and the Rocket's play in general..but shouldn't they at least have 1 or 2 plays for half court sets? you know.. since they aren't exactly very good in those situations. if there is one thing that annoy you on the Rockets is that once the flow stop at half court all you can hope for is miraculous 3 shots.

Also, the Rockets will start Donatas Motiej?nas at the 4 tomorrow against the Bucks. interesting, there's little doubt that he's offensively capable enough, in fact he's probably their most talented offensive big man for sure (including the departed Patterson / Morris). but if he could defend well enough is another issue.. then again I guess that fits right into the Rockets team concept of just scoring so much that it makes defense kinda irrelevant.
   963. RollingWave Posted: February 26, 2013 at 10:22 PM (#4376744)
it would be somewhat amusing if the Heat lose their 11 game win streak to a Kings game at home....... but they're still down 1 after 3Q . (I highly highly doubt they can't win though.)
   964. JC in DC Posted: February 26, 2013 at 10:57 PM (#4376759)
My comment re Russell was entirely based on the athleticism, size, and his bringing the ball up the court. No one with his combination of those three today doesn't learn to improve their ball-handling and their shot. He'd be a 6'9" athletic freak with incredible bball IQ and desire to win.
   965. RollingWave Posted: February 26, 2013 at 11:12 PM (#4376765)
What the frig, the Kings are taking the Heat into double OT in Miami.

   966. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 26, 2013 at 11:18 PM (#4376769)
I'm with AROM on Russell.
   967. RollingWave Posted: February 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM (#4376775)
Jebus Christ, the Heat finally won in double OT against the KINGS in Miami.

The Patrick Patterson era isn't exactly having a good start, he played 10 min this game and did literally nothing (0-1 shooting, 1 reb, 1 TO and 1 PF.)



   968. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: February 26, 2013 at 11:58 PM (#4376781)
Jebus Christ, the Heat finally won in double OT against the KINGS in Miami.

I am not terribly familiar with the work of Marcus Thornton, but I'm going to guess he does not frequently go 8/12 from deep.

Also, another play index request: LeBron had 40 points, 16 assists, and 2 turnovers in this game. Even loosening the requirements a little - say 35 or more, 15 or more, and 3 or less - I'd predict this happens less than once a year.
   969. PJ Martinez Posted: February 27, 2013 at 12:02 AM (#4376782)
While I love a free flow offense and the Rocket's play in general... but shouldn't they at least have 1 or 2 plays for half court sets?

Sampson's exaggerating. Houston may not have a ton of plays, and they may be pretty simple, but Lowe refers, e.g., to "various sets that have Harden fly off two screens on the right wing, take a dribble handoff at the right elbow, and then run what amounts to a high-speed pick-and-roll toward the middle as a shooter — usually Delfino — fades to the right corner." That's a play.
   970. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 27, 2013 at 12:21 AM (#4376785)
Also, another play index request: LeBron had 40 points, 16 assists, and 2 turnovers in this game. Even loosening the requirements a little - say 35 or more, 15 or more, and 3 or less - I'd predict this happens less than once a year.


Good call.

15 of these games since 1985-86.

The last one was Lebron in 2010, with 43/15 and 3 TO (and 13 rebounds), which was also the only triple double of the bunch. Iverson (who had two total) and Drexler each had games where they shot >70% while doing it.
   971. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 27, 2013 at 12:24 AM (#4376787)
The 16 assists were a career high.

Doug Collins gave what might be described as 'please fire me' comments in his post-game presser.
   972. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 27, 2013 at 12:54 AM (#4376795)
in case noone's paying attention (and really, why should you at this point), the sixers are falling apart. from doug collins' postgame press conference:

On if they don't realize how desperate they should be playing? (Bob Cooney of Daily News)

"Bob, you know what man, I wish I knew. I wish I knew. I really do. I gotta tell you. I'm sitting there. I gave my body to this franchise. I was never booed as a player. Never. I ran through my sneakers."

On if his players have become comfortable losing:

"You would have to ask them that. I don't know. I do not know. The thing about it is, I can't speak for others. Damien Wilkins -- I mean he's been one of our best players since coming back from break. I told you, I did not think our guys prepared themselves during the break to come back to play."


"And it's incredibly frustrating, yes, it is. But my job is to not put that kind of product on the floor. I'm incredibly hard on myself. I love it when the fans start yelling at me -- I'm not playing. You didn't yell at me when I played. Why are you yelling at me when I'm coaching?

“We made a huge deal and we have nobody playing a part of that deal. How many teams can give up Andre Iguodala, Moe Harkless and Nikola Vucevic and have nothing in return playing? That’s tough to overcome. That’s just the facts. I’m not looking for any outs. That’s a fact. Nik Vucevic had 19 rebounds tonight. Spencer had one, I think Lavoy had two.”


oh, and the kicker:
I say all the time ... they say it's a players' league, well then take ownership. Take ownership. That's all I'm asking: Take ownership of what you're putting out there.

I just don’t want you to think I’m up here blaming. I don’t want you to think I’m making excuses. That’s not what this is about. I’m not a blamer; I’m not an excuse kind of guy. No one takes this harder than I do. Nobody and I am a guy who, when I have coached, I’ve always been able to find some answers and I’ve not been able to find answers.


collins basically spent 10 minutes running off excuse after excuse, cop-out after cop-out, and he finishes by saying that he's not making excuses.


he talks about not having vucevic, but he had him last year, and the guy couldn't get off the bench. he talks about harkless, but without the bynum trade, he's buried behind iguodala and wright and turner and young, and he's not getting off the bench, either.

hell, they have another 1st round pick on the roster in arnett moultrie, and he's getting DNP-CDs as the starting center is pulling 1 ####### rebound in 25 ####### minutes.


this season was destined to be #### with bynum not playing until march (at best), but collins has handled this just about as poorly as is possible. how can you stand in front of a microphone as a coach and say that you don't know what to do? and as an organization, how can you not fire the guy immediately after he says it? yeah, he pulled the #### end of the stick with bynum not having any apparent interest in playing this season, but as an organization, how many times can you let your coach come out and say that he doesn't know what he's doing?



at least there is kind of an upside to this. if they continue to #### the bed for just a little bit longer, they might get a high enough draft pick to pull otto porter.
   973. RollingWave Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:14 AM (#4376800)
Would it matter if Bynum end up signing elsewhere though? which looks increasingly likely? The Sixers really drew the short straw on that one. at least Howard is playing most of the time sheesh.
   974. The District Attorney Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:26 AM (#4376803)
Re: LeBron: No one at all (since 1985) had done the 40 points, 16 assists, eight rebounds part.
   975. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:40 AM (#4376805)
Luke Walton led the cavs in assists tonight. That's weird.
   976. RollingWave Posted: February 27, 2013 at 05:23 AM (#4376844)
Hmmm, tomorrow's Bucks at Rocket seem to be the most relevant playoff implication game, though GSW @ Knicks (both team need to start some sort of a win streak, though GSW more badly than the Knicks) /Dallas @ Memphis (Mavs lost today and another loss especially if coupled with a Rockets win tomorrow would seem to put the playoffs completely out of reach) / Toronto @ Cavs have some potential implication as well.

I'm intrigued to see how a Donatas Montejunas at 4 starting rotation for the Rockets would work, though I guess he fits the Rockets team concept well enough (can shoot from corner? check, can run? check, questionable defense? check) , also that they probably have a chance to put Garcia / Robinson into the game tomorrow. I'd love to see Houston just tell Robinson to play like Dennis Rodman for the present or something.


   977. AROM Posted: February 27, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4376939)
Thinking about how Russell would be used in the modern game. Watching the game in the 1980s, I thought that a 6'9 center would not be realistic. All the great big men were 7 footers. Except that they weren't. Hakeem was listed as a 7 footer but definitely was not. Moses Malone was listed at 6'10 but reading Bill Simmons, it seems he might have been an inch or two shorter. Dwight Howard is 6'9 or 6'10 (draft express shows him 6-9 without shoes, he might have grown since then).

Of course that makes you wonder if height inflation was working in the 50's, if Russell is a true 6-9. From this picture it seems he's legit. Despite the fact that some people shrink as they age, Russell appears to be about 2 inches short of Garnett and 3 above Pierce.
   978. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 27, 2013 at 12:17 PM (#4376977)
Would it matter if Bynum end up signing elsewhere though? which looks increasingly likely? The Sixers really drew the short straw on that one. at least Howard is playing most of the time sheesh.
i think they have to sign him. even after all of this.


if they let him go and get nothing for him, in all likelihood the team is shot for the next 5 years anyway, so i think the only way to go is to double down on bynum, as much as that sucks to say right now.
   979. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 27, 2013 at 12:44 PM (#4376999)
LeBron had 40 points, 16 assists, and 2 turnovers in this game. Even loosening the requirements a little - say 35 or more, 15 or more, and 3 or less - I'd predict this happens less than once a year.

Good call. 15 of these games since 1985-86.

Re: LeBron: No one at all (since 1985) had done the 40 points, 16 assists, eight rebounds part.

Shouldn't the 2OT part give these stats a fairly large asterisk? Looks like he had 25 points, 12 assists, and 4 rebounds in regulation. That's a very good game, but it's not particularly noteworthy. LeBron has had better games this year; they just didn't coincide with his opponent shooting precisely well enough to force multiple overtimes.

Similarly, a couple weeks ago Paul Pierce (in 3OT) became the first player since 2006 to have 25+ points, 14+ rebounds, and 14+ assists. I don't think it was one of the best games of his career -- he shot 7-20 -- though it did equal his career-high in minutes played.
   980. andrewberg Posted: February 27, 2013 at 12:57 PM (#4377009)
Would it matter if Bynum end up signing elsewhere though? which looks increasingly likely? The Sixers really drew the short straw on that one. at least Howard is playing most of the time sheesh.


If you're Houston, would you rather spend max money on Bynum with his injury history and have to figure out what to do with Asik, or spend max money on Josh Smith and plug him into the lineup?

On another note, what did everyone think of the Indiana-Golden St. kerfuffle? Lee and Hibbert did some pushing, but the only thing that seemed to distinguish it from the standard "hold me back" fight was that Hibbert kind of stumbled and ended up near the cameras under the basket (ie- not on the court). Steph Curry was strangely latched onto Hibbert's leg for some reason and Hibbert kind of flung him aside. I am biased because I have always liked Hibbert, but it did not seem as serious as the WWL is making it this morning.
   981. The District Attorney Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:05 PM (#4377017)
If you're Houston, would you rather spend max money on Bynum with his injury history and have to figure out what to do with Asik, or spend max money on Josh Smith and plug him into the lineup?
Neither, but it's easy for me to say when I don't have to deal with an owner and a city that are probably a little anxious when the team has won one playoff series in the past 17 years.

If the Rockets do make the playoffs (and I think Hollinger's system gives them a 97% chance or something), hopefully that will take off pressure for immediate results and allow Morey to keep doing what he's been doing.

Luke Walton is a snazzy passer. I love passing big men, and in his case it's almost cooler because he doesn't do much of anything else...
   982. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:06 PM (#4377019)
this season was destined to be #### with bynum not playing until march (at best), but collins has handled this just about as poorly as is possible.

Maybe I'm not remembering the timeline that well, but he wasn't "hurt" when they traded for him, right? And wasn't he was supposed to (or assumed that he would) play well before now? Meaning, I totally understand Collins' frustrations here. Doesn't he have personnel say, too? If he assumed Bynum would be around and he hasn't been (and I did notice how Collins ####### about Bynum's first practice). Of course, doesn't mean you're wrong and I'd be quite pissed with Collins too (and am once again retroactively glad he turned down the Bulls before).

if they let him go and get nothing for him, in all likelihood the team is shot for the next 5 years anyway, so i think the only way to go is to double down on bynum, as much as that sucks to say right now.

There's a chance they're also shot with him, and with an awful max contract ####### things up even more.

If you're Houston, would you rather spend max money on Bynum with his injury history and have to figure out what to do with Asik, or spend max money on Josh Smith and plug him into the lineup?

I wouldn't want to give either the max, but I would rather have Smith + Asik than Bynum + unknown. Asik does have decent trade value though, I'd think.

I am biased because I have always liked Hibbert, but it did not seem as serious as the WWL is making it this morning.

I tend to agree with you. But I bet Hibbert still gets a game or so.

Luke Walton led the cavs in assists tonight. That's weird.

Losing at home to the Cavs without Irving is pretty bad. The Bulls are not in good shape (Gibson is out at least 2 weeks now). They almost seem like they need Rose if only for the mental boost.
   983. RollingWave Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:09 PM (#4377021)
I suppose, another issue been brought up in all this mess though, given that the Lakers would most likely need to reup Howard as well... that means Gasol is almost surely gonna go right? that seems like a huge possible 1 year Rockets rental if Rockets can't get any of Bynum / CP3 / D12.

I mean 1 year Gasol rental is low risk high reward .. certainly their ceiling would be higher than Josh Smith (though as others have pointed out , Smith with their current other 4 and D-Rob ? that's some crazy crazy fun . they'll literally run most teams out of the gym. ) and it would be MUCH safer than going with Bynum.



   984. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:14 PM (#4377025)
double post somehow
   985. Jimmy P Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:18 PM (#4377029)
Maybe I'm not remembering the timeline that well, but he wasn't "hurt" when they traded for him, right? And wasn't he was supposed to (or assumed that he would) play well before now?

Yes. But, then he decided to continue his bowling hobby without telling his doctors and re-injured it. That's a lot of torque of the knees (especially if it's the lead one).

I wouldn't want to give either the max, but I would rather have Smith + Asik than Bynum + unknown. Asik does have decent trade value though, I'd think.


Agreed. Bynum's just too unreliable. He's only played 60+ games once in his career. Even when he's on the floor, last season he was showing some poor behavior that could portend him being a headache.

Smith's not a true max guy, but what is the value of his "max"? He's still a useful player who you'd be buying right in his prime. I'm not sure he fits in Houston's system. I think the last offense you'd want him in is one that encourages jacking threes.

I tend to agree with you. But I bet Hibbert still gets a game or so.


I'll say three. He started it, kept it going, and led it into the stands. Curry should get at least one, probably two.
   986. RollingWave Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:21 PM (#4377030)
More on Gasol, the more you think about it the more it would make sense, since if it was him that would totally justify keeping Asik as well since with his injury and age he probably also accept a reduced role for 1 year at least. they try to keep him and Asik not on the floor at the same time but that gives a totally different dimension to the Rockets game especially when Asik sits (I think the stats is the Houston is actually well above average defensively when Asik is on the floor, but completely utterly awful when he's not. which shouldn't be surprising given that their back up C was Cole Aldrich who suck so bad that they usually prefer Greg Smith or even Montejunas to moonlight at 5.)
   987. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4377035)
More on Gasol, the more you think about it the more it would make sense, since if it was him that would totally justify keeping Asik as well since with his injury and age he probably also accept a reduced role for 1 year at least. they try to keep him and Asik not on the floor at the same time but that gives a totally different dimension to the Rockets game especially when Asik sits (I think the stats is the Houston is actually well above average defensively when Asik is on the floor, but completely utterly awful when he's not. which shouldn't be surprising given that their back up C was Cole Aldrich who suck so bad that they usually prefer Greg Smith or even Montejunas to moonlight at 5.)

I don't think Gasol makes the 13-14 Rockets contenders, so why bother with him? Would they want to resign him? Why would he accept a reduced role in a contract year? Why try to add a bit player with a $19mil salary for one year, when they'd also have to give up assets to get him?
   988. andrewberg Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4377040)
I'll say three. He started it, kept it going, and led it into the stands. Curry should get at least one, probably two.


"Started it" is always dicey. Lee shoved him like he was going for a rebound when neither was in position to get the ball. You can argue that it was a basketball play, but you could also argue that it crossed the line and was a little too rough. If Lee's play was too rough, then Hibbert retaliated.
   989. RollingWave Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4377046)
I don't think Gasol makes the 13-14 Rockets contenders, so why bother with him? Would they want to resign him? Why would he accept a reduced role in a contract year? Why try to add a bit player with a $19mil salary for one year, when they'd also have to give up assets to get him?


Because the Lakers due to cap issue would probably go as far to amnesty him or trade him to the Rockets for almost nothing? I think I'm reading that due to the tax Gasol's 19 mil is more like 40 mil for them. and they need to pay more money to resign Howard and they probably realize that they need some more role players anyway.

Yeah it isn't going to make them the favorite or anything unless 2011-2012 Lin shows up (with 2012-2013 version's health. ) but again, it doesn't seems like Bynum or Smith would be that much more likely to do that either.

The Rockets have more cap space then just about anyone else, but the problem for them is that with the bird rights and everything even if they could offer max it still puts them at a disadvantage. of course if they get a CP3 / D12 or even more miraculously Lebron or something that's obviously a no brainer, but I'm thinking more of a plan B type of situation.

   990. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 27, 2013 at 01:57 PM (#4377056)
Because the Lakers due to cap issue would probably go as far to amnesty him

No. MWP will have that honor.
or trade him to the Rockets for almost nothing?

Less likely. Besides, it's counter to what Morey's doing.

If the season ended today, LeBron would have, by a hair, the highest single season PER of all time, edging out Wilt.
   991. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: February 27, 2013 at 02:02 PM (#4377061)
Smith's not a true max guy, but what is the value of his "max"? He's still a useful player who you'd be buying right in his prime. I'm not sure he fits in Houston's system. I think the last offense you'd want him in is one that encourages jacking threes.

I contend that Smith will age poorly because any decline in athleticism will both seriously impact his strengths and encourage the weaknesses in which he indulges. If he can't get the high-percentage FGAs he takes for granted now and can't recover from not blocking out to still grab a rebound and is no longer a terrific help defender, then you're left with an awful lot of Josh Smith spotting up while the other team ignores him without the wonderful qualities that more than make up for this right now.
   992. Jimmy P Posted: February 27, 2013 at 02:24 PM (#4377079)
Maybe I'm not remembering the timeline that well, but he wasn't "hurt" when they traded for him, right? And wasn't he was supposed to (or assumed that he would) play well before now?

Yes. But, then he decided to continue his bowling hobby without telling his doctors and re-injured it. That's a lot of torque of the knees (especially if it's the lead one).

I wouldn't want to give either the max, but I would rather have Smith + Asik than Bynum + unknown. Asik does have decent trade value though, I'd think.


Agreed. Bynum's just too unreliable. He's only played 60+ games once in his career. Even when he's on the floor, last season he was showing some poor behavior that could portend him being a headache.

Smith's not a true max guy, but what is the value of his "max"? He's still a useful player who you'd be buying right in his prime. I'm not sure he fits in Houston's system. I think the last offense you'd want him in is one that encourages jacking threes.

I tend to agree with you. But I bet Hibbert still gets a game or so.


I'll say three. He started it, kept it going, and led it into the stands. Curry should get at least one, probably two.
   993. Jimmy P Posted: February 27, 2013 at 02:27 PM (#4377082)
I contend that Smith will age poorly because any decline in athleticism

But that's not going to happen at 28. Or probably 29-30. Maybe the fourth year of a four year deal. I believe only the Hawks can offer him a 5 year, or can they do 6? Either way, you're buying his 28-32ish seasons. Considering how few guys of his talent level actually make it to the market at that age, he's a good buy.
   994. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 27, 2013 at 02:34 PM (#4377088)
Maybe I'm not remembering the timeline that well, but he wasn't "hurt" when they traded for him, right?
yep
And wasn't he was supposed to (or assumed that he would) play well before now?
yep. he was supposed to be practicing two weeks before the season opener, and then around november 1, and then december 1, and then mid-january, and then the all-star break...and here we are now, and he's still not practicing.

There's a chance they're also shot with him, and with an awful max contract ####### things up even more.
yeah, but it's only a 5 year max-contract, as opposed to the 7 year max-contract that used to be a franchise killer. if bynum doesn't play, they're in the same position as if he walks in free agency, except they'll have less caproom to sign nick young and spencer hawes to multiyear extensions. whether bynum is in the trainers room or in houston, the sixers are a lottery-team, so he doesn't hinder a rebuild if he's not on the floor.


there's no good scenario here.
   995. Bitter Mouse Posted: February 27, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4377090)
There's a chance they're also shot with him, and with an awful max contract ####### things up even more.


They may be hosed no matter what they do. Such is the NBA. You have to take risks to get the franchise player you MUST have, and often it does not work and you are hosed. Recovering from being hosed is pain now, pain later, or most likely pain now and later.
   996. andrewberg Posted: February 27, 2013 at 02:37 PM (#4377092)
So I'm not the only one who fell victim to the refresh-repost fiasco. Why did the system start doing that? Very annoying. This is worse that the time we got blamed for overloading the servers with our 9 million post thread.
   997. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 27, 2013 at 02:48 PM (#4377101)
I think three or four days ago. Hasn't hit me yet (that I know of), but that's when I saw an uptick in complaints.
   998. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 27, 2013 at 02:52 PM (#4377107)
They may be hosed no matter what they do. Such is the NBA. You have to take risks to get the franchise player you MUST have, and often it does not work and you are hosed. Recovering from being hosed is pain now, pain later, or most likely pain now and later.

Looked at this way, every NBA team (except the Lakers) is in the position of the small-market MLB teams, like when the Indians eliminated all hope of success for five years by betting on Sizemore and Hafner.
   999. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 27, 2013 at 02:54 PM (#4377109)
Refresh=double-post is a problem I've hard for a few months with Chrome.
   1000. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 27, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4377111)
They may be hosed no matter what they do. Such is the NBA. You have to take risks to get the franchise player you MUST have, and often it does not work and you are hosed. Recovering from being hosed is pain now, pain later, or most likely pain now and later.
yep.

Looked at this way, every NBA team (except the Lakers) is in the position of the small-market MLB teams, like when the Indians eliminated all hope of success for five years by betting on Sizemore and Hafner.
i think that's exactly what the NBA's soft cap/luxury tax system was designed to do.
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