Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Sunday, March 03, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - March 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: hunting and apostrophes.

The District Attorney Posted: March 03, 2013 at 05:37 PM | 843 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 9 pages  1 2 3 4 5 6 >  Last ›
   1. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: March 04, 2013 at 09:22 AM (#4380037)
If you are rich enough or pretty enough, you can wear your hair any damn way you please. We plebians, not so much.
   2. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 04, 2013 at 10:00 AM (#4380048)
I watched the Hawks-Lakers game from mid-third quarter on and was surprised by how few touches Howard got. He got the ball in the post one time and touched the ball one other time as a last second dump-off from Kobe as he was going out of bounds. I don't know how he is going to stay when he is basically an afterthought in the offense.
   3. RollingWave Posted: March 04, 2013 at 10:54 AM (#4380087)
at this point, wouldn't Omer Asik basically do the same thing for the Lakers as Howard? just at a much reduced cost and better health?

Also, continuing from the last thread, how the hell id 30 teams pass up on Chandler Parson at least once again?
   4. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 04, 2013 at 01:03 PM (#4380181)
The Clippers should have traded for Garnett.

I'm inclined to believe there wasn't anything the Clips could have done during the season to convince KG to accept a trade.

What the Clippers need more than anything is real coach, it's amazing they've done as well as they have considering how seemingly inept Del Negro is at times.

I haven't seen a whole lot of criticisms of VDN this year, so I'm constantly wondering how he's doing. CP3 covers a lot of faults, but it's impossible for him to cover everything.

The Clippers should be playing Bledsoe more, but they go to Crawford a lot late in games, so unless you're going to go *really* small (i.e., with Crawford at the 3)

VDN used to love playing Rose, Gordon and Hinrich together in Chicago - the 3 of them played a ton of minutes together in that epic playoff series against the C's. The 3 of them are smaller than the Clips' 3, but Hinrich was the most suited of those 6 to guard bigger players (like Pierce).

Rose really needs to come back, they win games like tonight when he is in the lineup...

Not that I like trying to say what's in players' heads, but the team looked a lot more mentally into the game with Rose on the bench. Maybe it means....sorry, I'll stop. I think Thibs waited too long to put Noah back in (he checked back in around 3:30) and that cost them some buckets and rebounds. Noah is mainly responsible for the late TO shot clock violation. But it does feel like having Rose would have helped with execution down the stretch. Regardless, I was pleased that Butler finally had another great game.

Rodman is perfect to be the diplomat for north korea. he has enough crazy in him to understand them, and seems to have the ear of the dictator.

Am I the only one who thinks he simply got paid to go because he's broke as hell? As such, I haven't given it any more thought than that.
   5. andrewberg Posted: March 04, 2013 at 01:09 PM (#4380186)
Also, continuing from the last thread, how the hell id 30 teams pass up on Chandler Parson at least once again?


For one thing, he was a college senior in the draft, so he didn't have age or potential on his side. Also, he didn't really progress from his junior to senior year. His rebounds and assists improved slightly, his scoring was down (and he got to the line less) and his blocks+steals were stagnant form his sophomore year on. If you're getting a finished product, you probably want him to be able to score more than 11 PPG in college. Finally, the pre-draft scouting reports make it sound like teams were concerned about his ability to guard perimeter players and shoot consistently. Ironically, those have become his two greatest strengths, but after guarding bigger guys in college and playing more of a facilitator role, they were probably fair questions.

   6. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 04, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4380188)
BTW, unless I missed it, no comments on the Ibaka/Griffin thing. I am amused by Perkins' comments afterwards, but in the laughing at him sort of way.
   7. Manny Coon Posted: March 04, 2013 at 01:35 PM (#4380207)
I haven't seen a whole lot of criticisms of VDN this year, so I'm constantly wondering how he's doing. CP3 covers a lot of faults, but it's impossible for him to cover everything.


The Clippers have done enough so well VDN's faults don't show up as much until one of Paul or Griffin is hurt or until they play a really tough them like the Thunder. It kind of reminds me of how Mike Brown always seemed like a fine coach for Lebron's Cavs until they met up with a team with similar talent and a better coach in the playoffs.

My biggest issues with him are how he handles Jordan and Bledsoe and his sub patterns. He'll often sub out all of the starters at once and while they have have a strong bench and do ok, I think they would do better if they mixed the starters and subs more like a normal coach. Griffin and Paul both play enough minutes that one of them should almost always be out there, but that isn't the case.

With Bledsoe he just hasn't played him at much SG. Bledsoe has something like 25 PER playing next to Paul this year but VDN opted to use guys like Willie Green instead. Bledsoe played SG in college and still mostly plays like one. Paul-Bledsoe-Barnes-Griffin-Jordan are probably their five best players and have only played together about 20 minutes all season.

With Jordan, VDN tends to single him out for mistakes and flaws and keeps him stuck to the bench and uses guys like Odom, Hollins and Turiaf instead who have the same flaws and make many of the same mistakes, but less talent. When Jordan is having a tough game, VDN very rarely gives him a chance to work through it and bounce back, which he needs to learn to do and if it means using Hollins or Turiaf pulling Jordan doesn't even help them short term. There is no reason Jordan should be playing less minutes than he was two years ago, he has clearly improved since then and his backups are bad.
   8. JuanGone..except1game Posted: March 04, 2013 at 01:39 PM (#4380210)
I feel so guilty about Bynum. I moved to Philly a few years ago, and spent the offseason telling anyone who would listen on how great Bynum would be for the city and the team, despite some concerns about his personality. I've been a huge fan since the Lakers drafted him and I think that at one point half of my internet passwords had some version of his name (If you want to crack my not used Hotmail account you have a hint). My barber now barely speaks to me and a Principal at my company just shakes his head at me when I see him in the hallway. I HOPE YOUR HAPPY DREW!
   9. andrewberg Posted: March 04, 2013 at 01:48 PM (#4380222)
I haven't seen a whole lot of criticisms of VDN this year, so I'm constantly wondering how he's doing. CP3 covers a lot of faults, but it's impossible for him to cover everything.


Does he get any credit for insulating the team from his own shortcomings by usually having two PGs on the floor?
   10. andrewberg Posted: March 04, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4380227)
VDN opted to use guys like Willie Green instead


I heard an interview in which Paul said he and Green are friends and he recruited Green to come to LAC. It would not surprise me if his continued PT has a lot to do with that relationship.

There is no reason Jordan should be playing less minutes than he was two years ago, he has clearly improved since then and his backups are bad.


That is very convincing. It's probably the best critique of the Clippers I have heard this year.
   11. RollingWave Posted: March 04, 2013 at 01:57 PM (#4380236)
OUCH, well I guess it wouldn't be as bad as if you telling everyone in Portland that they should so draft Oden a few years back....



   12. smileyy Posted: March 04, 2013 at 02:04 PM (#4380243)
For one thing, he was a college senior in the draft, so he didn't have age or potential on his side.


Is there a market inefficiency of some of these guys here? They might not be superstars, but some of them could be All-Stars. I feel like there's a scouting/talent evaluation process here that doesn't cost a lot of money compared to the cost of draft mistakes / opportunities / opportunity costs.
   13. smileyy Posted: March 04, 2013 at 02:07 PM (#4380247)
With Jordan, VDN tends to single him out for mistakes and flaws and keeps him stuck to the bench and uses guys like Odom, Hollins and Turiaf instead who have the same flaws and make many of the same mistakes, but less talent.


This is interesting (as commented on above). I wonder if there's a coaching antipattern here. Jordan makes mistakes, but has the talent/potential to not make them, therefore the mistakes are a negative. The other players make the same "mistakes", but don't have that upside, so they're not "mistakes" -- they're just baseline performance.
   14. smileyy Posted: March 04, 2013 at 02:09 PM (#4380252)

OUCH, well I guess it wouldn't be as bad as if you telling everyone in Portland that they should so draft Oden a few years back....


Looking at the state of Centers in the league, I'm still not sure that that's bad advice. Unless you want to be all hindsight.

As good as Durant was, would anyone have bet large sums of money on him being a Top 10 All Time guy at the time of the draft?

In short, one guy (Oden) hit his 5% projection, and the other (Durant) hit his 95% projection. (Numbers pulled out of my ass)
   15. Spivey Posted: March 04, 2013 at 02:25 PM (#4380264)


Looking at the state of Centers in the league, I'm still not sure that that's bad advice. Unless you want to be all hindsight.

As good as Durant was, would anyone have bet large sums of money on him being a Top 10 All Time guy at the time of the draft?

In short, one guy (Oden) hit his 5% projection, and the other (Durant) hit his 95% projection. (Numbers pulled out of my ass)


I don't disagree that the Oden stuff was a pretty terrible break. But Durant's measurables and performance his freshman year in college had a lot of people thinking he had a very good chance of being an all-timer at the wing position.
   16. smileyy Posted: March 04, 2013 at 02:33 PM (#4380268)
[15] That's fair -- I might be selling Durant short in making that argument. I would be curious what kind of certainty one thinks one could assign to a player being a Top 5, Top 10, Top 20 all-time guy going into the NBA Draft. I feel like you can be pretty confident about saying "Future All-Star". But "All-Time Great"? That gets fuzzier, IMO.
   17. Famous Original Joe C Posted: March 04, 2013 at 02:40 PM (#4380278)
As good as Durant was, would anyone have bet large sums of money on him being a Top 10 All Time guy at the time of the draft?


First off, whoa there with the "Top 10 All-Time" stuff. Durant is having an amazing season, and a wonderful start to his career, but he is 24. Let's just enjoy him for a few years and check back later on the all-time ranking thing.

Also, who in history would you really have bet large sums on being an all-time top 10 guy? Wilt, Russell maybe. Kareem. Bird or Magic, *maybe*? Don't know about guys like Oscar or Jerry West.

Anyway, WRT to Durant, as far as his upside, I thought he was incredible from the start of his college career. I recall picking Texas to win the NCAA Tournament just out of dference to his talent (stupid Rick Barnes!) I mean, just the surface stats - 26 and 11, 40% from three, at 6-9 or 6-10? Yikes. Now, I don't bring this up as a "look at me, I knew how good he would be!" thing - more like, "hey, if a total amateur like me saw this coming (more or less), plenty of others must have as well." I do know I definetly wanted the Celtics (who if you recall had the 2nd worst record heading to that lottery) to draft him over Oden.
   18. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 04, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4380301)
Shoot, my post never made it.

I don't remember who I preferred between Oden and Durant, I thought it was very close. Both would be an easy #1 in most drafts. (What Joe said in 17)

I love Asik, but he's not even injured Dwight yet.

13 - Long time pet peeve, though i get it more with good teams (in WS terms, play a guy with lower expected wins and losses and shift opportunities to better, high usage dudes).

Parsons was tricky also because he was a really good glue guy in college, but didn't look to have a singular skill on which he could hang his hat as a pro. Instead, it seems like he got a little bit better at almost everything (a lot better at perimeter shooting + proved that his quickness could translate into perimeter defense).
BTW, did you know he was a 61% shooter from the line in college (401 FTA)? That was a red flag for me...
   19. AROM Posted: March 04, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4380302)
Also, who in history would you really have bet large sums on being an all-time top 10 guy? Wilt, Russell maybe. Kareem. Bird or Magic, *maybe*? Don't know about guys like Oscar or Jerry West.


Lebron probably. Jordan, not without hindsight, or else you don't draft 2 guys ahead of him. One who didn't make it, but you probably would have bet on is Bill Walton. Maybe Shaq?

Though the top 10 is pretty crowded. Shaq did everything in his career you could have hoped for, and may not be a top 10 alltimer. Though a definite top 20.

   20. Spivey Posted: March 04, 2013 at 03:10 PM (#4380313)
Even LeBron I don't think I would have bet top 10 all-time. After his first season, sure, but not right out of high school.

I think with him and Durant and a couple of other guys you could have bet on them being a Hall of Famer (I think this is a fair proxy for all-time great). But like AROM said, you can be a slam dunk #1 pick like Duncan or Shaq, have an insane career, and still not finish in the top 10. So in the modern game, I don't think I could ever put anyone in that class.
   21. Famous Original Joe C Posted: March 04, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4380316)
Shaq did everything in his career you could have hoped for, and may not be a top 10 alltimer.


Shaq did do everything you reasonably could have hoped for at the start of his career for sure - he also left something on the table. Not that it really mattered, and I don't blame him, being someone who is wired more similarly to him (work hard, sure, but let's not take things TOO seriously and try to enjoy the good things in life) than, say, a Kobe or Michael (borderline sociopathic). I'm just rehashing old stuff here, I know, but Shaq *could* have been even more dominating, and clearly top 10, if he had a different personality.
   22. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: March 04, 2013 at 03:44 PM (#4380353)
I would be shocked if there was much discussion of Bird and possibly Magic as "an all-time great" coming out of college. (I broadened "top ten".) I recall a lot of skepticism of whether Bird's game would even translate to the NBA given his lack of athleticism, in a traditional sense. Magic was a game changer in college, a guy big enough to play PF who could play point. But, there were questions about his shooting, and I don't think many pass-first guys are projected as all-time greats.
   23. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 04, 2013 at 03:50 PM (#4380360)
Obviously, being in the same draft as LeBron (and Darko) hurt him some, but what was the hype like on Carmelo compared to Durant (and Beasley) going into their respective draft years. IIRC, those 3 and Anthony Davis were the big names who went to college and had outstanding first years.
   24. madvillain Posted: March 04, 2013 at 03:55 PM (#4380368)
I'm just rehashing old stuff here, I know, but Shaq *could* have been even more dominating, and clearly top 10, if he had a different personality.


I agree with that assessment and I'm neither a Shaq apologist or a Shaq detractor. He never really came into camp in that great of shape later in his career and it was clear from maybe 2002 on that Shaq was done pushing his body in the offseason to drop the 20 or so pounds needed to offset his aging. That said, brute force was always a huge part of his game (again, no value judgements here although aesthetically it was far from my basketball ideals) so maybe he felt he needed the bulk.

________________________

SIAP Rose sat on the bench last night and delivered a classic \"#### you Indy just wait until you get a load of me" GIF at the end of the game. He has to be playing this season IMO after seeing that.
   25. andrewberg Posted: March 04, 2013 at 03:56 PM (#4380370)
Listening to Zach Lowe's podcast from the Sloan Conference... Guess which player's passes have resulted in the league's best eFG on ensuing shots for each of the last two years.
   26. Famous Original Joe C Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:02 PM (#4380376)
A few thoughts on yesterday and the final quarter of the season, since I watched parts of three games:

-- The Heat are going to win the East unless Lebron gets hurt. (Trenchant, I know)

-- I think Indiana is the second best team in the East. I don't think the Knicks are far behind, but Indiana's got the elite defense you want in the playoffs. The Knicks do not, and they rely on J.R. Smith from night to night for scoring. You want to bet on that winning you two playoff series? I liked the Bulls the most for #2 a month ago, but man, they just can't score, and if Rose isn't coming back they have no chance against Miami even if they got there somehow. The upside for the Bulls, regardless of what Rose does (and I think he should sit, FWIW), is the Jimmy Butler Era and the impending trade of Luol Deng. Brooklyn is too inconsistent and starting to fade, Atlanta is still Atlanta, and the Celtics upside is a 1st round upset of the Knicks in the 3/6 matchup (I can't wait!) before running out of steam (I think they'd score maybe 80 per game in a matchup with Indiana).

-- Out West....there's 2.5 teams capable of making the Finals, and that's it. Sorry, Memphis, wrong conference; you'd be a clear #2 in the East, but are you really beating two of the Spurs/Clippers/Thunder? Nope. IF (big if) they can get to the three seed, I might be willing to give them a puncher's chance, but I'm really not seeing it with their offense. They'd be a 2010 Celtics type finalist (no superstars, super D with just enough offense), only coming from a stronger conference and without the pedigree. The Clippers....we've talked some about their VDN issues (not playing Bledsoe with Paul, not playing Bledsoe in general, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc) - one the one hand, Chris Paul. Here's my prediction: a great 2nd round series between the Clips and Thunder, goes 7 games, and the Thunder win by 15 in game 7 while Bledsoe plays 8 minutes. Spurs/Thunder? I'll take the Thunder, but YMMV.

-- The Lakers....watched the last quarter and a half of that game last night. A few things stood out: 1) Why isn't Dwight getting the ball in the post more? 2) Dwight could NOT handle the Hawks pick and roll last night. Either of Teague/Smith and Horford were shredding the Lakers in the second half - Horford had several open shots at the rim. Only on the final play did the Lakers finally manage to get help, doubling Horford and forcing him into a game ending turnover. 3) I've never been out on the Lakers as a playoff team, and I still think they will ultimately make it in as a 7 or 8 seed. They are going nowhere once they get there, though. Again, that pick and roll defense....wow. 4) Steve Nash should be shooting more than MWP. It seems profoundly stupid that he doesn't. With all the looks the Lakers can get from three between Howard kickouts and Kobe drive-and-kicks....if I'm playing that team in NBA2k12, I have Nash posted in a corner when Kobe is handling the ball or Dwight gets it in the post, shooting 8 threes per game. 5) Did Dwight and Kwame Brown switch hands in the offseason, or was that just last night?
   27. smileyy Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4380377)
BTW, did you know (Parsons) was a 61% shooter from the line in college (401 FTA)? That was a red flag for me...


I went to bb-ref to look up just that exact stat, figuring that guys who work at FT shooting in college are a good bet to have a good work ethic in the pros, and are more likely to capitalize on their upside. Not a datapoint in Parsons favor there....
   28. Famous Original Joe C Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4380381)
Guess which player's passes have resulted in the league's best eFG on ensuing shots for each of the last two years.


Kobe is my guess, without having listened. See post 26 if I'm right, and don't if I'm wrong. :-) The defense COLLAPSES on him like almost no one else, and he's a good enough passer to find the open guy for a three.
   29. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4380382)
25: Melo? No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
   30. Famous Original Joe C Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4380383)
Oh crap, I bet it is Melo, just because he's an even better choice for "that's the LAST guy I'd pick". And he's also passing to a bunch of guys who shoot threes reasonably well.
   31. smileyy Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4380385)
As the discussion has gone on, I think I set that "Top 25" bar too high. Maybe HoFer is a better measure, or "Top N" for some other value of N.

[23] Blake Griffin, though a sophomore, was in that camp of "Big 12 guys blowing out record books" as Durant and Beasley.
   32. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:07 PM (#4380387)
Guess which player's passes have resulted in the league's best eFG on ensuing shots for each of the last two years.


This is a wild guess, but I remember seeing somewhere that Monta Ellis has extremely good numbers along these lines, though his game seems purpose-built to hide that fact.
   33. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:07 PM (#4380388)
I figure that he's teammates with Chandler and Novak, draws a lot of attention and isn't a prolific passer (which helps for being an outlier).
   34. smileyy Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:08 PM (#4380389)
Even LeBron I don't think I would have bet top 10 all-time.


If we broaden it to "All-Time Great", I would have bet on it (barring injury). IIRC, he was playing against NBA players in pickup games before his senior year of high school, and performing at or above their level.
   35. Famous Original Joe C Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4380398)
Der K - right, Chandler too. I think you may have this one.
   36. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:14 PM (#4380399)
It's definitely Melo.
   37. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:16 PM (#4380402)
If we broaden it to "All-Time Great", I would have bet on it (barring injury). IIRC, he was playing against NBA players in pickup games before his senior year of high school, and performing at or above their level.

Think I mentioned this in the previous thread but Antoine Walker was on Simmons' podcast last month and claimed that LeBron took part in Jordan's famous secret pre-return workouts. I had never heard that before so I'm going to assume he was lying.
   38. rr Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:16 PM (#4380404)
1) Why isn't Dwight getting the ball in the post more?


Several reasons:

1. His post efficiency has dropped off and he doesn't get much except cookies anymore. Ethan Sherwood Strauss broke it down at Bleacher Report in January:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1466253-breaking-down-a-difference-between-vintage-dwight-howard-and-the-current-version

I saw a number a couple of months ago pointing out that he actually gets a lot of post touches, but he doesn't do much with them and often doesn't try to convert them. He has been getting fewer lately. Both Pau and Kobe are better post players than he is.

2. His back has eroded his base and his ability to establish position. It has also drastically eroded his lateral mobility, which is exposed in PnR D.
3. On the day after D'Antoni was hired, he was quoted as saying "A straight post-up is inefficient." Howard supposedly really wanted Jackson hired.
4. Kobe shoots a lot.
5. Howard turns the ball over a lot.

As to Nash and MWP, Lakers fans have been saying that for weeks(and actually have been saying most of what you said for weeks). As Hombre pointed out when MDA was hired, the Lakers lack the speed and shooting to really run SSOL effectively. I personally thought that D'Antoni would adapt more than he has, although a lot of the issues are roster-based and not on him.
   39. smileyy Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:17 PM (#4380406)
[37] Now that you mention it, that story is sounding really familiar and is the origins of my post. I hadn't remembered the Jordan-comeback part of it, but I do recall him playing against Jordan and his friends, and Jordan and others saying he's NBA ready.
   40. andrewberg Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4380412)
25: Melo? No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!


Yes. His teammates shoot 61% eFG off of his passes.
   41. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:47 PM (#4380442)
woohoo! undefeated at trivia today!

i don't remember that lebron stuff at all.
   42. smileyy Posted: March 04, 2013 at 04:51 PM (#4380445)
LeBron, Jordan, et.al: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1024928/index.htm

(Googled for "lebron james st vincent st mary michael jordan antoine walker")
   43. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 04, 2013 at 05:02 PM (#4380464)
[41] Hindsight is 20/20 and all that:
"She's in New Orleans," LeBron says, grinning at the memory of how well his mother, Gloria, had gotten on with Jordan when they met in Chicago last summer.
   44. andrewberg Posted: March 04, 2013 at 05:45 PM (#4380501)
"She's in New Orleans," LeBron says, grinning at the memory of how well his mother, Gloria, had gotten on with Jordan when they met in Chicago last summer.


Well we already knew she had a thing for somewhat crazy basketball players.
   45. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 04, 2013 at 09:26 PM (#4380598)
Marreese Speights has 21 and 5 boards at halftime.
   46. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 04, 2013 at 09:51 PM (#4380610)
Marreese Speights had 0 points and 0 boards in the 3rd quarter.
   47. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 04, 2013 at 10:06 PM (#4380612)
Favors has 17 points and 14 boards at half against Milwaukee. Please don't rush back Al.
   48. puck Posted: March 04, 2013 at 10:08 PM (#4380614)
Re. the Shaq thing upthread: he exceeded my expectations because I never thought a guy that big would have such a long career. I figured his knees or feet would give out.
   49. RollingWave Posted: March 04, 2013 at 10:38 PM (#4380630)
Re. the Shaq thing upthread: he exceeded my expectations because I never thought a guy that big would have such a long career. I figured his knees or feet would give out.
The list of actually really good big guys who's knee / foot blew out isn't that long is it? I mean there's obviously Yao but... (of course it's a pretty small sample.)
   50. JJ1986 Posted: March 04, 2013 at 10:52 PM (#4380633)
The list of actually really good big guys who's knee / foot blew out isn't that long is it? I mean there's obviously Yao but... (of course it's a pretty small sample.)


The aforementioned Bill Walton too.
   51. smileyy Posted: March 04, 2013 at 10:59 PM (#4380636)
Oden. Kenny George at UNC-Asheville (who was 7'7") I don't know if that rate is any higher or lower for 7'+ players, or if there's just so few of those that we remember the ones who get injured.
   52. The District Attorney Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:13 PM (#4380640)
Sabonis, Sampson, Smits. And that's just the S's!
   53. Spivey Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4380643)
To say the officials just swallowed the whistle on that Hayward drive would be an understatement.
   54. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:21 PM (#4380644)
Brandon Jennings with a big 3 to tie the game with 8 seconds left, and they go to OT. Jennings and Ellis have 52 of the Bucks' 99 in regulation.
   55. RollingWave Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:21 PM (#4380645)
Bucks and Jazz going into OT, if the Jazz lose they falls to the 8th seed.

(though the writing's on the wall anyway for the Jazz and Warriros given how their score differential have been considerably worse than the Rockets and even the Lakers all year long, and of course Rocket just padded that differential quiet a bit again yesterday.)
   56. RollingWave Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:24 PM (#4380646)
If i'm the Bucks I just say screw it and go with Sander! + Ellis / Jennings / Dunlevy / Reddic and shoot the other team to death.
   57. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:27 PM (#4380648)
J.J. Redick has crazy range.
   58. Spivey Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:29 PM (#4380650)
If i'm the Bucks I just say screw it and go with Sander! + Ellis / Jennings / Dunlevy / Reddic and shoot the other team to death.


Between those guys and Ilyasova it's their best 6, and Ilyasova is a good long range shooter as well for a big. Really the only other guy that should be getting much burn is Mbah a Moute against top flight wings.
   59. Spivey Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:32 PM (#4380653)
I like Monta Ellis, but I loved Bogut. I'm sad he's had the injuries he's had. I think if he was healthy he really had a chance to have a borderline HOF career. People that don't care about Milwaukee - and really, who cares about Milwaukee - don't realize how insanely good his defense was.
   60. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:33 PM (#4380654)
Probably. Sanders aside, the Bucks don't have the muscle to really fight anybody down low so there's no reason to even try. They should run Paul Westhead's offense.
   61. Spivey Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:35 PM (#4380655)
Someone almost fouled Kanter there. That would have been ridiculous.
   62. Spivey Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:37 PM (#4380657)
Larry Sanders don't give a ####!
   63. RollingWave Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:39 PM (#4380658)
Rockets #7 seed now.

   64. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:39 PM (#4380659)
Watson, Foye, and Williams: 0-15.
   65. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:44 PM (#4380664)
And Hayward going 3-16 didn't help either. On the other hand, the Bucks backcourt — Ellis, Jennings, Redick — put up 71 points. Ouch.
   66. Booey Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:53 PM (#4380669)
Pretty pi$$ed about that Hayward no call at the end of regulation. That wasn't even a borderline call. That was really damn obvious. At no other point in the game would that have been ignored.

Like I said after the Clippers loss a week or so ago, it's REALLY hard to win when 3 of your starters go scoreless, even when the other 2 score 20+ and you have 4 bench players in double figures.

With 23 points and 22 boards last game for Kanter and another 18 and 10 tonight off the bench (plus 23 and 15 for Favors starting in Jefferson's place), whoever it was last page that wondered if maybe the Jazz would be better off if Al sat out the rest of the season with a mysterious injury may have been on to something.

And lastly, when a team is up 3 and their opponent has one last possession to launch a 3 to tie, why do teams EVER even give them the chance? Why don't they just foul as soon as they inbound and let them shoot 2 FT's instead? The Jazz allowed the Bucks to shoot the game tying 3 at the end of regulation and the Bucks let the Jazz attempt a few at the end of OT. Is this unspoken NBA etiquette or something? Seems like stupid coaching to me.
   67. RollingWave Posted: March 04, 2013 at 11:54 PM (#4380670)
i don't get why the Rockets sign Aaron Brooks, though I guess that depend on who they cut.
   68. Maxwn Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:01 AM (#4380676)
. Sorry, Memphis, wrong conference; you'd be a clear #2 in the East, but are you really beating two of the Spurs/Clippers/Thunder? Nope. IF (big if) they can get to the three seed, I might be willing to give them a puncher's chance, but I'm really not seeing it with their offense.


This is totally fair. My thinking rationally best case for the Grizz this year is probably something like lose in 7 in the conference finals. My wishcasting best-case is that the offense, which has shown signs of being somewhat improved post-Gay-trade, continues to gel and they finish the season with a top-2 defense and a slightly above-average offense. And get the 3 seed. If that happened, they might have a shot, if you's a gambling man.

Note: I said top-2 defense, but I actually think Memphis has the best D in the league. Indiana leads them in the efficiency measures but they have had a much easier schedule by BBREF's strength of schedule measure, so if I had to bet which team was actually the best defense, I would pick Memphis. Note 2: I will retract this if it turns out that the defensive efficiency measures are schedule adjusted, but I don't think they are.
   69. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:03 AM (#4380677)
Obviously, he's not the only reason but the Heat have only lost one game since signing Chris Anderson. He really is basically a better version of Joel Anthony. He rebounds, blocks shots, and plays solid defense like Anthony but is a better fit because he's a little bit bigger. Solid, underrated pickup.
   70. Maxwn Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:13 AM (#4380682)
And lastly, when a team is up 3 and their opponent has one last possession to launch a 3 to tie, why do teams EVER even give them the chance? Why don't they just foul as soon as they inbound and let them shoot 2 FT's instead? The Jazz allowed the Bucks to shoot the game tying 3 at the end of regulation and the Bucks let the Jazz attempt a few at the end of OT. Is this unspoken NBA etiquette or something? Seems like stupid coaching to me.

I think coaches are just terrified that their guys will #### up and let the ballhandler get a shot up for 3 fts. Probably over-thinking it, but it's safer from a post-game press conference perspective to play it straight up. Possibly they are also affected by the fact that fouling up 3 just seems kind of lame, which it is. If I were a coach, I'd probably like my team to do it, but as a fan, I think I prefer the equilibrium where no one really does it.
   71. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:17 AM (#4380685)
And lastly, when a team is up 3 and their opponent has one last possession to launch a 3 to tie, why do teams EVER even give them the chance? Why don't they just foul as soon as they inbound and let them shoot 2 FT's instead? The Jazz allowed the Bucks to shoot the game tying 3 at the end of regulation and the Bucks let the Jazz attempt a few at the end of OT. Is this unspoken NBA etiquette or something? Seems like stupid coaching to me.


It's not that hard to get good contests on 3s when they have to shoot a 3. It seems harder to purposefully defend against the alternative of making a FT and missing the 2nd on purpose for a putback.
   72. Booey Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:17 AM (#4380686)
If I were a coach, I'd probably like my team to do it, but as a fan, I think I prefer the equilibrium where no one really does it.


If I were an impartial fan watching a game that I didn't care who won, I'd prefer they let the guy take the shot too, purely from an entertainment standpoint. But when it's my team, it frustrates the hell out of me when a guy like Jennings hits a game tying 3 he never should have been allowed to take.
   73. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:28 AM (#4380689)
And lastly, when a team is up 3 and their opponent has one last possession to launch a 3 to tie, why do teams EVER even give them the chance? Why don't they just foul as soon as they inbound and let them shoot 2 FT's instead?
That was a headscratcher. It seemed so obvious that you'd want to commit the foul before they had a chance to put something up. Why bother having anyone guarding the paint, or even inside 20 feet from the basket? Sheesh. Terrible coaching.
   74. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:40 AM (#4380700)
And Hayward going 3-16 didn't help either. On the other hand, the Bucks backcourt — Ellis, Jennings, Redick — put up 71 points. Ouch.


Yeah, he was awful. I can't blame Corbin for sticking with Burks, Hayward, Carroll, Millsap, and Kanter for the 4th and OT considering how successful they were, but I would have considered Favors in for Hayward. At the least it would have been entertaining to see the Jazz bigs destroy the Bucks down low and the Bucks smalls destroy the Jazz from outside.

And lastly, when a team is up 3 and their opponent has one last possession to launch a 3 to tie, why do teams EVER even give them the chance? Why don't they just foul as soon as they inbound and let them shoot 2 FT's instead? The Jazz allowed the Bucks to shoot the game tying 3 at the end of regulation and the Bucks let the Jazz attempt a few at the end of OT. Is this unspoken NBA etiquette or something? Seems like stupid coaching to me.


Especially after Garnett did it against the Jazz just a couple games ago to help clinch the Celtics a win. Of course Corbin is no Rivers...and honestly I'd probably prefer Garnett as coach...
   75. puck Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:42 AM (#4380703)
The list of actually really good big guys who's knee / foot blew out isn't that long is it?

Shaq was more than a really good big guy. He was a really good BIG guy. Extra weight--he was big even coming out of college. He looked a lot thicker than other centers. Maybe like Bob Lanier, who was a heck of a player but did not age well.
   76. steagles Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:42 AM (#4380704)
If i'm the Bucks I just say screw it and go with Sander! + Ellis / Jennings / Dunlevy / Reddic and shoot the other team to death.
seconded. if you're gonna lose, you might as well lose spectacularly.

   77. andrewberg Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:48 AM (#4380709)
There were some weird stat lines tonight. The three Jazz starters failing to score is strange. The Knicks having 4 bench guys and 0 starters in double figures is bizarre. The Nuggets and Hawks combining for 20 FTAs is bizarre.

Also, Tobias Harris is averaging 17-6 on 58% shooting (67% on twos!) in 5 games since getting to Orlando. He's not a 58% shooter, but he deserved a longer look than he was getting and is making the most of it.
   78. andrewberg Posted: March 05, 2013 at 12:52 AM (#4380712)
Especially after Garnett did it against the Jazz just a couple games ago to help clinch the Celtics a win. Of course Corbin is no Rivers...and honestly I'd probably prefer Garnett as coach...


That echos the comment above that coaches don't necessarily trust players to execute it. If you're going to trust anyone, it would be KG.

Rick Bucher just interviewed Mark Malone to start the second half of the Warriors game and Malone had a frighteningly large cold sore on his lip. Really unfortunate camera angle.
   79. Booey Posted: March 05, 2013 at 01:11 AM (#4380731)
Especially after Garnett did it against the Jazz just a couple games ago to help clinch the Celtics a win. Of course Corbin is no Rivers...and honestly I'd probably prefer Garnett as coach...


Yep. I think we should look for a coach this offseason just as vigorously as we should look for a PG.

The three Jazz starters failing to score is strange.


Not that strange, unfortunately. Happened just a little over a week ago too. And while Foye will rarely go scoreless, Marvin's done it a few times and Watson literally goes scoreless almost every other game.
   80. RollingWave Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:17 AM (#4380852)
Jazz vs Bucks is like the two extreme though, one team has like no back court, the other one have no front court (offensively at least.)

   81. Spivey Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:16 AM (#4380944)
There was still a pretty healthy amount of time left when Jennings took his 3 - it seemed about 8 seconds or so when he let go of the ball (it went in with 5-6 seconds left). Conservatively estimating that he was going to be fouled a couple of seconds before that to allow for the shot and we're talking about 10 seconds left. Also throw in the fact he had been squared up and facing the basket for a little while before he shot - I just don't see the foul as making sense in the Bucks game. You run a fairly high risk of fouling him in the act of shooting since he's squared up, and there's a fair amount of time left.
   82. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 05, 2013 at 02:14 PM (#4381199)
Favors didn't play in the 4th quarter or OT?

We haven't talked about Robert Swift yet, have we?
   83. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:13 PM (#4381266)
No. Or Tyrus Thomas.

So, what exactly is in the water in Philly? And why is it only infecting Sixers players and their hairstyle choices?
   84. Booey Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4381269)
Favors didn't play in the 4th quarter or OT?


I was a little annoyed at that at first, considering how well he'd done up until that point (23 and 15 through 3 quarters). But Kanter ended up with his own double-double off the bench (18 and 10), so I guess it balanced out.

Last night was a night of extremes for the Jazz; no one played just okay - half the team was great (Millsap, Favors, Kanter, Burks, Carroll), and the other half was horrendous (Hayward, Foye, Watson, and Williams combined to go 3-31).
   85. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:23 PM (#4381276)
Rose is now listed as day to day. knowing thibs he has been listed as that since it happened...
   86. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:27 PM (#4381283)
Rose is now listed as day to day. knowing thibs he has been listed as that since it happened...

I'll be surprised if he plays in SA tomorrow night. Hinrich, Rip and Gibson will all still be out. Boozer didn't make the trip with the team, but they said it wasn't an injury and he should be there (but he sure as hell ain't flying out in today's weather). They have a home game Friday against the Jazz, and then a 3 game trip thru Cali (LA, SAC, GS). Perhaps he comes back Friday?
   87. smileyy Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4381286)

So, what exactly is in the water in Philly? And why is it only infecting Sixers players and their hairstyle choices?


When I was in Philadelphia, I got this vibe that was a mix between Baltimore and NY/NJ. Which isn't surprising given its geography. But yeah, things felt...unique...there.
   88. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 05, 2013 at 03:31 PM (#4381287)
Maybe, I dont think it will happen right away, I see a few days of the normal team routine and what not before he comes back. let's hope it's soon though, this team needs him.

also apparently for the indy flight they had to turn around and come back because an engine #### out
   89. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: March 05, 2013 at 05:43 PM (#4381445)
   90. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 05, 2013 at 08:45 PM (#4381597)
That echos the comment above that coaches don't necessarily trust players to execute it. If you're going to trust anyone, it would be KG.


Yes, absolutely. I still think it'd be worth the risk, even with there being about 10 seconds left on the clock, as Spivey points out. What annoyed me more, even though it probably wouldn't have made a difference on that possession, was leaving Favors, the Jazz best defender, on the bench for that possession. Millsap is weak defensively anyway and playing on a hurt ankle, but there's basically nothing that will convince Corbin to lift him or Jefferson late in games.
   91. Quaker Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:02 PM (#4381604)
KenPom just did a study on this and found teams that fouled lost very slightly more often than those that did not.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/yet_another_study_about_fouling_when_up_3

   92. Booey Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:26 PM (#4381614)
KenPom just did a study on this and found teams that fouled lost very slightly more often than those that did not.


Those that won by allowing the 3 most likely had better defenders than the Jazz and/or a better coach/gameplan towards defending the triple. Before the ball was even inbounded, I had little doubt Milwaukee was going to tie the game.
   93. RollingWave Posted: March 05, 2013 at 09:46 PM (#4381619)
So, what exactly is in the water in Philly? And why is it only infecting Sixers players and their hairstyle choices?


They're just going Ben Franklin style of course.
   94. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 05, 2013 at 10:02 PM (#4381628)
KenPom just did a study on this and found teams that fouled lost very slightly more often than those that did not.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/yet_another_study_about_fouling_when_up_3



Interesting. I'd like to see the data for the NBA, though.
   95. steagles Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:33 PM (#4381665)
FWIW, which is not very much, arnett moultrie hasn't missed a shot in his last 4 games, and is 12/12 for 24 points over that span.
   96. RollingWave Posted: March 05, 2013 at 11:43 PM (#4381671)
Schedule lost coming up for the Lakers isn't it...

after a few weeks they're still about 3 games out , though GSW and Utah is coming down fast.

   97. Maxwn Posted: March 06, 2013 at 12:10 AM (#4381680)
Schedule lost coming up for the Lakers isn't it...

I've always thought a schedule loss was like playing the second game of a back-to-back on the road against a decent team, not this team is better than us and they're on the schedule, so we lost.
   98. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 06, 2013 at 12:27 AM (#4381684)
I guess I thought that having Nash would mean the Lakers would figure things out but I don't understand how the Laker pieces fit. You have Kobe, a player who doesn't need other players to create offense for him. You have Nash, who usefulness depends on him having the ball on offense. You have Howard and Gasol, guys who need the ball in the post. Separately, they are all good-great pieces but they don't fit with each other.

I don't think Howard is healthy. He just doesn't look good when he's around the basket.
   99. PJ Martinez Posted: March 06, 2013 at 12:56 AM (#4381693)
One and a half games separates seeds 4 through 7 in the East (CHI, BRK, ATL, BOS).
   100. Maxwn Posted: March 06, 2013 at 01:03 AM (#4381697)
flip
Page 1 of 9 pages  1 2 3 4 5 6 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Traderdave
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Politics, October 2014: Sunshine, Baseball, and Etch A Sketch: How Politicians Use Analogies
(3210 - 6:06am, Oct 23)
Last: David Nieporent (now, with children)

NewsblogAd Week: What Is Madeleine Albright Doing on the Wheaties Box?
(10 - 5:56am, Oct 23)
Last: CraigK

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - October 2014
(352 - 5:54am, Oct 23)
Last: HMS Moses Taylor

NewsblogHow Wall Street Strangled the Life out of Sabermetrics | VICE Sports
(15 - 5:31am, Oct 23)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

NewsblogMcSweeneys: NEW BASEBALL STATISTICS.
(15 - 5:26am, Oct 23)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

NewsblogHunter Pence responds to Royals fan signs with monster Game 1 | MLB.com
(55 - 3:53am, Oct 23)
Last: Shibal

NewsblogJerome Williams re-signs with Phils
(10 - 2:11am, Oct 23)
Last: boteman

NewsblogSielski: A friend fights for ex-Phillie Dick Allen's Hall of Fame induction
(182 - 12:31am, Oct 23)
Last: Sunday silence

Newsblog2014 WORLD SERIES GAME 2 OMNICHATTER
(534 - 12:25am, Oct 23)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(854 - 12:25am, Oct 23)
Last: DJS and the Infinite Sadness

NewsblogRoyals are not the future of baseball | FOX Sports
(30 - 12:08am, Oct 23)
Last: rlc

NewsblogStatcast: Posey out at the plate
(14 - 11:25pm, Oct 22)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogCardinals proud of fourth straight NLCS appearance | cardinals.com
(65 - 10:38pm, Oct 22)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogJay set for surgery — and for CF in 2015 : Sports
(5 - 9:58pm, Oct 22)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogMike Scioscia, Matt Williams voted top managers
(43 - 7:45pm, Oct 22)
Last: catomi01

Page rendered in 0.9965 seconds
52 querie(s) executed