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Sunday, March 03, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - March 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: hunting and apostrophes.

The District Attorney Posted: March 03, 2013 at 05:37 PM | 843 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   201. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:44 PM (#4384329)
Shumpert is already back and playing at a really high level.

How do you define that, other than the fact that simply playing in the NBA is playing at a really high level? It looks like Shumpert has been kinda awful since his return: 7 PER, .015 WS/48, and the team has been a lot worse with him on the floor. The Knicks with Shumpert are -6 points per 100 possessions, compared to +4 overall. Maybe Rose's camp has seen how Shumpert's been struggling and how it took Rubio about 6 weeks to get his form back, and they're worried that he might really underwhelm if he comes back now.
   202. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4384331)
Shumpert stashed a cognitive dissonance machine in the rafters of MSG - it only works within a 50 mile radius, though.
   203. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 08, 2013 at 04:54 PM (#4384334)
I would classify myself as a "Kobe-Hater" as far as a person can be a hater when I'd rank him somewhere in the top-20 NBA players of all-time. That said, the fact that he's posting his career high in shooting percentage in his age-34 season while leading the league in field goal attempts in remarkable. The guy has a million miles on him and he just keeps going. It's pretty amazing especially when you consider the style he plays.
   204. smileyy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4384347)
I got to watch the LAL-OKC game the other night. Kobe was suffering through an arm stinger that was making his fingers tingle and go numb every time he snapped his elbow to shoot. He left the game a couple times because of it. The two things that impressed me were him coming back into the game with the stinger and shooting some nothing-but-net free throws that must have hurt. And also doing so much ball-handling with his left hand, and still being effective.

I started with an irrational dislike for Kobe, but seeing his comments to the press, his durability, his playing (effectively!) through pain, and his adaptability in his 30s really impresses me.

I could easily see him playing until around age 40, and being effective for a team in more limited roles at that point. Its interesting to judge Kobe's career when he's accomplished so much, but still has a lot of seasons ahead of him.
   205. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:15 PM (#4384358)
pont of clarification: 202 is not a knock on nj - just a comment on iman
   206. smileyy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 05:48 PM (#4384395)
I'll wait for (hopefully!) a full season of Iman Shumpert being healthy before evaluating him too much. Getting significantly injured your first year has to put a crimp in player development.
   207. RollingWave Posted: March 08, 2013 at 09:37 PM (#4384635)
Houston at Golden State today is pretty big, if Houston win they pull even with GS, with the Lakers playing at home against the Raptors it seems a given that they're going to pull 1 game closer with one of them.

Jazz @ Chicago, ATl @ BOS seem to also be pretty interesting.
   208. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: March 08, 2013 at 09:42 PM (#4384638)
So listening and reading some more, there's actually quite a bit of people upset - I wouldn't say mad - at Rose now - a lot more than I thought when I posted earlier. Sounds like his personal doctor cleared him to play 2 or 3 weeks ago and said playing in games in the next step in his rehab. The only reason he isn't playing right now is totally on him. Which part of me understands; it's got to be hard for him to realize or accept he's never going to feel 100% until he's playing. The team planted this story, as a push, since they've been trying to get him on the court for weeks. So it doesn't sound like anyone - but him - thinks playing right now risks anything for future seasons. That's a tough spot for him, but purely as a fan it's hard to accept him sitting out much longer now. By all accounts, it's not a 2013 or 2014-2024 decision.

Now, no one has every questioned his desire or will to play before - and a lot of the success of the Bulls under Thibs has been because the whole team has been like that. Deng has put off wrist ligament surgery for 2 full seasons now because he doesn't want to miss any time (or miss the Olympics), Noah is constantly playing through foot problems, and Hinrich keeps coming back from his leprosy and hurting something else (7 totally different injuries this year). I can't help but wonder if this is affecting the team at all or contributed to their lackluster (results and effort) in February. But now that I know he medically should be playing, I'm anxious to see him again (and he was medically cleared when he said he might not play this year). He's not Bynum, but I hate questioning him at all.
   209. RollingWave Posted: March 08, 2013 at 09:43 PM (#4384640)
http://www.thedreamshake.com/2013/3/8/4080344/patrick-beverleys-journey-to-the-nba

also, a very nice article on Patrick Beverly, who overcame much to make it to the NBA.
   210. smileyy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 10:04 PM (#4384653)
[208] Maybe they all should have had surgery this year, and grabbed a lottery pick.
   211. Spivey Posted: March 08, 2013 at 10:22 PM (#4384674)
Magic Johnson just suggested that Andrew Bogut is a bum defensively (when healthy). But then, it was already obvious he is a terrible analyst.
   212. smileyy Posted: March 08, 2013 at 10:25 PM (#4384679)
Well...if anyone's an authority on bad defense...
   213. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 08, 2013 at 11:31 PM (#4384729)
It must be really hard to be a Jazz fan right now.
   214. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 09, 2013 at 12:13 AM (#4384751)
Gotta say, not easy being a Laker fan right now, either.
   215. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: March 09, 2013 at 12:29 AM (#4384762)
[210] oh, plenty of fans did suggest that. They would have had to find a way to keep thibs away for the year for it to work.
   216. smileyy Posted: March 09, 2013 at 12:57 AM (#4384778)
The floor would be littered with the bones of replacement players Thibs ground into dust?
   217. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 09, 2013 at 01:42 AM (#4384803)
Laker defense is really, really bad. Trying to make the big 4th quarter push, and they've allowed baskets the last five times down the floor. Really not good.
   218. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 09, 2013 at 01:54 AM (#4384808)
Kobe Bryant's really just kind of impossible.
   219. Booey Posted: March 09, 2013 at 03:17 AM (#4384824)
Well, if nothing else, the Jazz have been consistent on this road trip: 3 straight road games, 3 straight losses at the buzzer when they led in the final seconds. Let's see if they can go 4 for 4 tomorrow.

Maybe they need to adopt the Lakers gameplan - play like crap for 3 quarters, then go on a furious rally in the 4th to win anyway.

Just 7 and a half more months until the 2013-2014 seasons kicks off!
   220. robinred Posted: March 09, 2013 at 04:00 AM (#4384829)
Something to think about: Miami has won 17 in a row and has 22 games remaining on their schedule. Pat Riley was a member of the 1972 Lakers team that won 33 in a row.

Kobe Bryant's numbers over the last two games:

14/21 FG 42 pts/12 ast/7 reb 7/8 FG in 4th qtr.
11/22 FG 41 pts/12 ast/6 reb game-tying 3 in regulation, game-winning dunk in OT

He has turned the ball over a lot, given some of it back on D, and it has been against lottery teams. But even with the caveats, for a guy at his age with his mileage, it is simply remarkable.



   221. Maxwn Posted: March 09, 2013 at 04:20 AM (#4384833)
Kobe Bryant's really just kind of impossible.

That play at the end of OT is just the worst, stupidest defense I have ever seen. How the #### do you try to double a guy 45 ft from the hoop just to let him dribble straight to the basket for a dunk? With 10 secs left. Maybe I'm spoiled from watching a great defensive team, but I think the Grizzlies(Pacers, Spurs, etc) could play better defense than that with 3 guys on the court.

As a side note, Rudy Gay is doing the best job of anybody in selling the Memphis case for trading Rudy Gay. I though there was a chance that freeing him from Memphis's system might work out well for him, but so far, it appears to just be making his bad tendencies worse. Rudy Gay, Jumpshooter is a player who needs to take a breather for a while. He looks so damn natural taking an 18-footer, but the results do not reflect it. He's taking 8 shots a game from 16ft+ for Toronto and probably needs to be taking maybe 3 or 4.

That is actually really bumming me out. I like the guy, a lot. He was fun to root for and he's got a lot of talent. But the meme of "Rudy Gay can create his own shot" is seriously annoying because that is literally about the least useful thing that he can do on offense and it seems like he has totally bought into it as his main skill. Yes, Rudy Gay can go out and get about as many semi-clean looks from 18ft as he feels like, but he's gonna shoot 35% on them, so maybe he shouldn't. I am starting to think that Lionel Hollins may have done a better job of harnessing him into the Memphis offense than I thought.
   222. Maxwn Posted: March 09, 2013 at 04:31 AM (#4384834)
That play at the end of OT is just the worst, stupidest defense I have ever seen.

I should note that this shouldn't detract from Kobe's play on this possession. I actually thought it was pretty slick of him to use the dumbass big coming to double to screen his own man and get to the hoop. But seriously though, there are 4 Raptors within 5 ft of Kobe when he dunks that and yet somehow he might as well have been in a layup line.
   223. tshipman Posted: March 09, 2013 at 04:53 AM (#4384836)
Just 7 and a half more months until the 2013-2014 seasons kicks off!


I think Utah's a fair bit better than GSW, if that's any consolation.

I think the 6-9 in the West end up as:

Houston: 45-37
LAL: 44-38
Utah: 42-40
   224. NJ in DC Posted: March 09, 2013 at 05:11 AM (#4384838)
I suppose it wasn't obvious, but my Shumpert line was a joke. He has been putrid and the Knicks were stupid to hold on to him if any of those deadline rumors were true.
   225. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 09, 2013 at 05:18 AM (#4384839)
Didn't pick up on that, sorry. My line, indeed, was really about those rumors and people's reactions to them as well.
   226. RollingWave Posted: March 09, 2013 at 06:48 AM (#4384850)
Andrew Bogut + GSW jersy = ......
   227. robinred Posted: March 09, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4384939)
How the #### do you try to double a guy 45 ft from the hoop just to let him dribble straight to the basket for a dunk?


The Lakers' color guy, Stu Lantz, said more or less the same thing, bagging on Gray and on the Raptors, while also going orgasmic about #24. I got the feeling that a couple of the Raptors just sort of froze, and seemed to forget that they were playing and instead just watched. It was a weird play.

A lot of DeRozan's numbers came when Meeks was guarding him. As I said many weeks ago, the Lakers should have tried to pick up somebody who can play a little perimeter D, even if he were a DLeague guy who never scored a point.
   228. bob gee Posted: March 09, 2013 at 01:20 PM (#4384976)
is there any chance kobe wins mvp this year? i know he's not the best player, but after writers had written off the lakers, he's carried los angeles on his back.

glad mchale switched montejunas off of lee (2 fouls early) - that was ugly.

gonna be interesting to see how utah plays against the knicks tonight....
   229. RollingWave Posted: March 09, 2013 at 01:23 PM (#4384977)
also, Rockets have 4... yes 4 games left against Phoenix.. who the hell make these schedules
   230. Booey Posted: March 09, 2013 at 01:47 PM (#4385000)
is there any chance kobe wins mvp this year?


None. And rightly so. Impressive as it's been to see him turn around a team with so much turmoil and lead them to the playoffs at an age when most players are deep into their decline phase, how could you justify giving it to a player on a 45(ish) win team when LeBron and Durant have clearly better numbers and play for 60 game winners?

I'm thinking the 17+ game winning streak and 65 or so overall wins gives LBJ the award in a landslide. Durant will (and should) be a near unanimous 2nd.
   231. Booey Posted: March 09, 2013 at 01:57 PM (#4385009)
gonna be interesting to see how utah plays against the knicks tonight....


I'm guessing they'll play just fine until the middle of the 4th, when their lack of playmakers will lead to several costly turnovers, their lack of defense will allow their opponent to hit big shots down the stretch, and their lack of a go-to guy will lead to their own game winning attempts falling short.

That pretty much sums up the Jazz's last two weeks in a nutshell.
   232. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 09, 2013 at 05:25 PM (#4385065)
I just rewatched the last five mintues of the 4th quarter and overtime from last night's Laker game. Man, that's good stuff.
   233. Fancy Pants Handle doesn't need no water Posted: March 09, 2013 at 08:42 PM (#4385177)
I think the 6-9 in the West end up as:

Houston: 45-37
LAL: 44-38
Utah: 42-40

Wow that seems rough on whoever got their season vacated.
   234. tshipman Posted: March 09, 2013 at 09:11 PM (#4385188)
Wow that seems rough on whoever got their season vacated.


Yeah, I forgot to add GSW at 41-41
   235. bob gee Posted: March 09, 2013 at 09:44 PM (#4385204)
booey - i don't think he deserves it, but hey, rose won an mvp...kidd came in second a bunch of years back - and you've got andre dawson and jeff burroughs having trophies on their shelves. i think he'll definitely get sympathy votes.

the tough part with lebron winning mutiple mvps is if he returns to merely superstar level, and some inferior player 'leads' on a surprise team - well, lebron will be left out in the cold.

way back when everyone was praising mark jackson and how great the warriors 'were', i noticed their pythag was well below their actual record. would be kinda funny if they finished out of the playoffs, when you could make a case it's just reverting to the mean.

   236. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: March 09, 2013 at 10:00 PM (#4385211)
The Lakers, at absolute best, will be the 6th seed. Most predictions before the season had them top 2. No f'in way Kobe sniffs the MVP, no matter how much they've "overcome" or what have you or how great Kobe has been. If he finishes in the top 3, I'll be shocked.
   237. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 09, 2013 at 10:09 PM (#4385214)
I'm guessing they'll play just fine until the middle of the 4th, when their lack of playmakers will lead to several costly turnovers, their lack of defense will allow their opponent to hit big shots down the stretch, and their lack of a go-to guy will lead to their own game winning attempts falling short.

That pretty much sums up the Jazz's last two weeks in a nutshell.


Well at least they've switched things up tonight, right?
   238. Booey Posted: March 09, 2013 at 11:00 PM (#4385244)
Woo hoo! Jazz did NOT lose at the buzzer for the 4th straight game!!!!

You know things have gone horribly wrong with your teams season when it's almost a relief to see them lose by 29.
   239. Booey Posted: March 09, 2013 at 11:10 PM (#4385252)
booey - i don't think he deserves it, but hey, rose won an mvp...kidd came in second a bunch of years back


Rose won on a 60+ win 1st seed...Kidd's near win came as a 1st seed. If Kobe didn't win on a low seed in 2006 or 2007 when there were no clearly better candidates, then it's sure not gonna happen this year when there are.

Win totals have always meant as much to NBA MVP voters as individual stats have. Too lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure the lowest win total for an MVP in the 25 or so years I've been following the NBA has been Nash's 54 in 2006 (not counting lockout seasons, of course).

   240. Booey Posted: March 09, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4385259)
the tough part with lebron winning mutiple mvps is if he returns to merely superstar level, and some inferior player 'leads' on a surprise team - well, lebron will be left out in the cold.


You could argue that this already happened with Rose in 2011. But if the voters are bored voting for LeBron again and decide to look elsewhere this season, it'll be Durant they pick rather than Kobe. He's even got a good narrative himself since the Thunder haven't skipped a beat despite losing a top 10-15 guy in Harden.
   241. robinred Posted: March 09, 2013 at 11:43 PM (#4385277)
If he finishes in the top 3, I'll be shocked.


Not that anybody really gives a shitt who finishes 3rd (or 2nd, actually) in most MVP votes, but if the Lakers finish strong, and he has a few more games like the last two, I think he could get 3rd. Paul's and Anthony's narratives have lost a little steam; Harden and the Rockets are still largely under the radar. Certainly Duncan might get 3rd. As I have pointed out a few times, MSM guys as a general rule give Bryant more credit than statheads do, just as Lakers fans give him more credit than people in opposing fanbases do, and Bryant has a pretty good narrative this year if the Lakers get in. It is the other guys who are seen as the disappointments, not him.
   242. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 10, 2013 at 01:08 AM (#4385330)
Not that anybody really gives a shitt who finishes 3rd (or 2nd, actually) in most MVP votes, but if the Lakers finish strong, and he has a few more games like the last two, I think he could get 3rd.
He might, but nobody other than Lebron is a serious contender for MVP in the Lebron Era. Kobe's reward for this season is solidifying his mainstream status as Second Greatest SG in NBA History and likely entry into the NBA All-Time Conventional Wisdom Top 10.

I'm really enjoying these "I'm no fan of Kobe Bryant, but..." posts.
   243. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 10, 2013 at 01:19 AM (#4385333)
You could make a not crazy argument for Durant
   244. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 10, 2013 at 01:34 AM (#4385346)
The suns are almost out of centers and are doing weird stuff with rotations - this means ... Haddadi time! Career high 28 min: 6 pts, 11 reb, 3 blk in a win over Houston
   245. Maxwn Posted: March 10, 2013 at 02:38 AM (#4385352)
The Suns should play Haddadi 30 minutes a game for the rest of the year and see what happens. I mean, he had the higher PER on the Grizzlies during the playoffs last year.

That was always the funniest(read: saddest) thing about the Thabeet era in Memphis. They'd use Thabeet as their 2nd C and he sucked. Then every now and then Haddadi would get a little burn and you'd watch him and think, "Damn, I think this guy is better than the #2 pick." Like he's slower than hell, but he at least looks like he knows basketball-type things to do on a basketball court.

As an aside it is amazing to me that an NBA team can likely win 60+ playing Kendrick Perkins and Hasheem Thabeet 37 mins a game. I'm also mildly amazed that at least from the numbers, it looks like there is an argument that Thabeet should be the one playing 25 MPG and Perkins should be playing 10. Although really, should we play Perkins or Thabeet more is a question for which no correct answer exists. Either that or the correct answer is Nick Collison.

Damn it, what a debacle that was.
   246. robinred Posted: March 10, 2013 at 02:48 AM (#4385353)
Important to remember that IIRC Utah has the tiebreaker with the Lakers.

WRT 243:

DK--let's hear the Durant argument. James right now IMO is about where Jordan was in the early 90s. As Phil Jackson said after the 1993 Finals, when they had given the MVP to Barkley: "Michael is the MVP. Everybody knows that."

245-

"What if the Memphis Grizzlies had taken James Harden with the #2 pick?" will be in the 2025 on-line only edition of TBOB.
   247. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 10, 2013 at 03:07 AM (#4385354)
I vote James. But...
Durant has a bigger gap between his PER and the guy he's guarding than does LeBron (per 82games), plays slightly more minutes, his team has about the same record as the Heat despite losing Harden, has tactical value in being better from the line than James, also superior outside shooter which helps OKC through opp. need to not give any space on perimeter.
   248. Maxwn Posted: March 10, 2013 at 03:23 AM (#4385355)
246: Yeah, I fully expect to see that one day. The mild bright side from my perspective is that I think that it might have worked out worse if they'd taken Tyreke, who was the other main rumor around Memphis at the time, although I have no idea what the Grizz Draft Board looked like after Thabeet. Don't get me wrong, I think Tyreke is a much more talented basketball player than Thabeet, but I'm not sure that he is actually good enough to make a good team better. At least Thabeet was bad enough that they decided to cut bait on him pretty quick. It strikes me as plausible that it might be better to totally whiff on a pick than to only sort of miss.

That said, my assessment of Tyreke is pretty off-the-cuff and based on not much. It actually looks like he's having a pretty decent year this year, so maybe he would have been a much better pick too. Harden or Curry definitely would have been. Oh well. Marc Gasol turned out to be way more awesome than I would have thought in '09, as did Mike Conley for that matter. You win some, you lose some.
   249. Maxwn Posted: March 10, 2013 at 03:30 AM (#4385356)
247: If I was going to make an argument for Durant, I'd also point out that his team has about the same record as the Heat despite playing in what appears to be a much tougher conference. I'd still vote Lebron though.
   250. RollingWave Posted: March 10, 2013 at 03:42 AM (#4385358)
GS / Rockets / Utah all lose, Lakers now tied with Jazz.

The Rockets have an inexplicable inability to beat really terrible teams, they lost all their games againt the pickup basketball team from hell Kings too.

They seem to run the middle of the pack teams out of the gym all the time, but loses to great teams (not really a fault on them) and really terrible teams.

   251. smileyy Posted: March 10, 2013 at 03:58 AM (#4385359)
The horribleness of the Kings organization adds a lot of noise to player evaluation.
   252. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 10, 2013 at 04:15 AM (#4385360)
GS / Rockets / Utah all lose, Lakers now tied with Jazz.
Remember how a lot of people (like me) were saying it was silly to expect that teams would melt down in front of the Lakers? Utah still has a game up on LAL thanks to the tiebreaker, but it's hard to see the Jazz playing better than the Lakers from here on out. Also, Portland is now only 2 back of LAL/Utah. Dallas is 3 back.

In other Laker news, Pau Gasol is slated for a late March/early April return. 20 quality minutes a game from Gasol would dramatically upgrade the bench contributes the Lakers have been getting.
   253. NJ in DC Posted: March 10, 2013 at 06:10 AM (#4385374)
Durant has a bigger gap between his PER and the guy he's guarding than does LeBron (per 82games),

LeBron regularly guards whoever the other team's best player is/whoever MIA can't guard that night. Durant does not have the same level of responsibility.

plays slightly more minutes,

True

his team has about the same record as the Heat despite losing Harden,

True

has tactical value in being better from the line than James,

True. Also has the added value of getting a lot more calls than James.

also superior outside shooter which helps OKC through opp. need to not give any space on perimeter.

Not true if you parse out assisted/unassisted shooting.
   254. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 10, 2013 at 09:02 AM (#4385417)
I was giving an argument - not my argument. :)
   255. RollingWave Posted: March 10, 2013 at 09:54 PM (#4385961)
Lakers offically pass the Jazz, Howard with 21 boards and Kobe 1 Assist away from a double double.

Is it really a good idea to play just 8 guys when your team is like the 2nd oldest team in the league? Though it is understandable from the Laker's POV where they're threating every game as must win, still....

   256. Maxwn Posted: March 10, 2013 at 11:05 PM (#4385992)
Is it really a good idea to play just 8 guys when your team is like the 2nd oldest team in the league?

When your 9-12 are Devin Ebanks, Robert Sacre, Darius Morris and Chris Duhon, probably.
   257. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 10, 2013 at 11:14 PM (#4385998)
When Pau Gasol is ambulatory, they'll play nine. The Lakers without Howard on the floor are bad, and if Gasol can ameliorate some of that, then that'd be huge for the team.
   258. NJ in DC Posted: March 10, 2013 at 11:45 PM (#4386014)
When Pau Gasol is ambulatory, they'll play nine.

Why would the Lakers wait until Gasol is healthy to fire D'antoni?
   259. NJ in DC Posted: March 10, 2013 at 11:53 PM (#4386015)
DeAndre Jordan with the dunk of the year. Wow.
   260. Maxwn Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:03 AM (#4386020)
That was very brave of Brandon Knight.
   261. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 11, 2013 at 01:06 AM (#4386038)
That was very brave of the late Brandon Knight.
   262. Maxwn Posted: March 11, 2013 at 01:35 AM (#4386041)
RIP.
   263. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: March 11, 2013 at 01:39 AM (#4386042)
Boogie Cousins with an elbow to the back of Mike Dunleavy's head, flagrant 2, ejected. Sun likely to rise in east tomorrow.
   264. RollingWave Posted: March 11, 2013 at 02:41 AM (#4386047)
Boogie Cousins with an elbow to the back of Mike Dunleavy's head, flagrant 2, ejected. Sun likely to rise in east tomorrow.
Guess that whole getting Patrick Patterson as big brother for him thing hasn't worked out too well so far...

(Except for the fact that Patterson's playing better than Houston's current mess at the 4. not like that helps the King in anyway, nor is Houston that much more likely to miss the playoffs because of it.)

   265. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 11, 2013 at 03:00 AM (#4386049)
The Heat beat up on the Pacers and I'm not sure there's a team in the East that can give the Heat a tough series. The Bulls definitely could if Rose comes back close to 100% but that's it.

Chris Anderson really has been a nice addition for them. Miami has only lost one game with him on the roster. He's a good rebounder, has got enough size to guard some of the bigger centers, and is active defensively.
   266. Maxwn Posted: March 11, 2013 at 04:43 AM (#4386055)
He Lives!
@BrandonKnight07 It wasn't in the scouting reports that the clippers threw lobs lol

Got to say that was a pretty good way to handle the general amusement that the Twitterverse was having at his expense.

Also, while I was joking about him being brave earlier, I am actually impressed with him for contesting that. I mean, in retrospect, I guess it would have been better for him to let it go, since all he accomplished was getting on a poster and giving an and-1, but ####, at least he tried. He gets to be on a poster for whatever in the hell Greg Monroe and/or Charlie Villanueva were doing on that play. They ought to buy him dinner for hanging him out to dry so bad.
   267. Maxwn Posted: March 11, 2013 at 04:53 AM (#4386056)
Actually, I take it back. Even in retrospect, it wouldn't have been better to let it go. He got in his way enough that there was some non-zero probability that Jordan would miss the dunk and have to make the free throws. And there was also a fairly large probability that Jordan would miss the and-1 anyway, though he didn't.
   268. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: March 11, 2013 at 11:26 AM (#4386233)
It is the other guys who are seen as the disappointments, not him.

This obviously is the most important point and I totally agree, so I should just stop here. But...

Not that anybody really gives a shitt who finishes 3rd (or 2nd, actually) in most MVP votes, but if the Lakers finish strong, and he has a few more games like the last two, I think he could get 3rd. Paul's and Anthony's narratives have lost a little steam; Harden and the Rockets are still largely under the radar. Certainly Duncan might get 3rd. As I have pointed out a few times, MSM guys as a general rule give Bryant more credit than statheads do, just as Lakers fans give him more credit than people in opposing fanbases do, and Bryant has a pretty good narrative this year if the Lakers get in.

Paul and Anthony's team will both finish with better records than the Lakers - almost no one predicted that before the year. Parker was another candidate for 3rd/4th before his injury; depending on what the Spurs do while he's out might help him stay there. Even with the MSM credit, Kobe's only finished in the top 3 four times outside of the year he won; impressive, but still it's not exactly like he gets a voting bump for being Kobe. Maybe it's just because I've never been as down on the Lakers as others*, but Kobe dragging the Lakers to a 7th or 8th seed still rings a bit hollow as a narrative for me; now say he were putting on these careers numbers and the rest of the team wasn't shitting the bed, then yes, I say that narrative gets him more votes.

*In fact, I said it would be Utah giving up the playoff spot to them. So while it happened maybe a bit quicker than I expected, I'm not surprised. I have a feeling there are others (perhaps in the MSM) that feel the same way.

----

A new development may help explain why Chicago Bulls point guard Derrick Rose is still hesitant to return to the court.

ESPN's Doris Burke spoke with the former MVP before Sunday's game against the Los Angeles Lakers and reported that although Rose has been taking full contact in practice for well over a month, his hamstrings are "on fire" after those workouts. Rose added that he won't return to the court until he's past those issues.


Not that I don't believe him, but I don't think it's a coincidence the first time we hear about this is right after the Bulls leak he's ready to play. He hasn't talked much, but he's only talked about his knee and problems with that before.

Chris Anderson really has been a nice addition for them. Miami has only lost one game with him on the roster. He's a good rebounder, has got enough size to guard some of the bigger centers, and is active defensively.

He's been everything the Heat have wanted Haslem and Anthony to be the last couple of years. He's an amazing fit on that team.
   269. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 11, 2013 at 11:31 AM (#4386238)
He's been everything the Heat have wanted Haslem and Anthony to be the last couple of years. He's an amazing fit on that team.

When they signed him, I had a "now, it begins!" vibe - though I've certainly been guilty of overrating Andersen's potential impact before.
   270. robinred Posted: March 11, 2013 at 11:55 AM (#4386251)
but Kobe dragging the Lakers to a 7th or 8th seed still rings a bit hollow as a narrative for me;


Perhaps. On the other hand, he is 34, in his 17th year, and is "better than ever." Howard has played at about 70% or less most of the year and has missed some time (seems to be doing a bit better now), Nash has missed 24 games, Gasol has missed 28 games and is still out. The Lakers' roster beyond those four guys is very weak.

Anthony is hurting some now; Paul has missed a few games. Parker is out. Bryant, OTOH, although he is much older than all of these guys, has played every scheduled game and is leading the NBA in minutes played.

Personally, my ballot would be James/Durant/Paul 1/2/3, but I do not it would be "shocking" if Bryant got as high as 3rd depending on how things go the rest of the way.
   271. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4386257)
not my team but i think the rose kid has every reason to take his time. a basketball player's knees are the basis of his livelihood.

and what player shouldn't be suspicious of team doctors? as a group their credibility is questionable at best

good for rose in putting common sense and restraint ahead of 'looking tough'
   272. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4386258)
I don't know who I'd have third - Bryant hasn't played himself out of that possibility.

Not a subject I'd normally get into but... a bit of basketball culture I've never gotten (like, on a level that resonated with me) is players' reluctance to be dunked on. Everybody gets dunked on. A lot. If stopping one basket puts me on multiple posters as a victim, sign me up. Far from emasculating or whatever, I'm showing that I can take lumps, I'm going to fight for my team.

Rose: I don't know what's going on there, nor am I sure that Rose is "putting common sense and restraint ahead of 'looking tough'" (or not). What. A. Mess.
   273. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4386265)
and what player shouldn't be suspicious of team doctors? as a group their credibility is questionable at best

Agree with your point, but it's actually Rose's personal doctor that has cleared him to play. His doctor told him playing is the next step in his rehab; that was weeks ago now. That's the only reason it's a story.

Bryant, OTOH, although he is much older than all of these guys, has played every scheduled game and is leading the NBA in minutes played.

Him leading the league in minutes is by far the amazing thing to me.

I don't know who I'd have third - Bryant hasn't played himself out of that possibility.

I'm talking more from a prediction side, not a deserve side. Kobe very well may be the 3rd most valuable player this year, I'll just be shocked if the voters agree.
   274. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:17 PM (#4386269)
I'm talking more from a prediction side

Me too. He's gotten a lot of credit for keeping them afloat.
   275. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:20 PM (#4386276)
LeBron regularly guards whoever the other team's best player is/whoever MIA can't guard that night.

This seems much more like myth than fact to me. I've watched a lot of Heat games, and I don't think that's how their defense operates aside from some playoff 4th quarters and occasionally the final possession or two when it's close in the regular season. Whenever Battier is on the court, the Heat tend to give Battier the tougher assignment. Otherwise they go straight by position unless Ray Allen can be hidden somewhere else. Certainly LeBron has the ability to be an incredible, versatile individual defender, but they don't use him like that until they feel like it's absolutely necessary.
   276. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:26 PM (#4386282)
More than Durant, at any rate, DLGM...

If you look at variants of APM, LeBron is #1 with a bullet.
   277. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:33 PM (#4386291)
Renaldo Balkman - banned for life from the Philippine Basketball Association:

In arriving at this decision, I took into consideration Balkman’s track record as a player, including the head-butting incident during a FIBA-Americas game between Puerto Rico and Venezuela and his altercation with the bench of the Alaska Aces during a pre-Season game in Cebu City. I also took into consideration Balkman’s evident disregard for local and the host country’s sensibilities highlighted by his choking act on-court in full public view of his own teammate who was trying to pacify him. Stiff as it maybe, this decision upholds the tenets of contextual accountability and the over-all interest of the League and the fans.

I do encourage passion for the game but I also want to firmly instill a culture of accountability among our players. If one does something that violates the rules and the norms of sportsmanship and decent behaviour, he will be made accountable.
   278. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:37 PM (#4386292)
More than Durant, at any rate, DLGM...

Fair enough. The Thunder certainly use Thabo and Ibaka to take defensive pressure off Durant more than the Heat use Battier to that end.
   279. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:43 PM (#4386299)
moses

ok

still find with the guy's decision. now if next season comes and he's still gunshy then people can pile on
   280. GregD Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4386303)
upholds the tenets of contextual accountability
what is contextual accountability?
   281. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 11, 2013 at 12:56 PM (#4386318)
It's what you really ought do but might not anyway
(skit-skat-voo-dee-lee-vat toot-en-de-hay!)

***

A question with Rose, HW, is how much of this is actual gunshy-ness v. something else.
   282. smileyy Posted: March 11, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4386373)
The Heat beat up on the Pacers and I'm not sure there's a team in the East that can give the Heat a tough series.


Yeah -- I think the Heat can be hard to evaluate because its not always clear which gear they're playing in. They certainly weren't in top gear the first half of the season.
   283. smileyy Posted: March 11, 2013 at 01:58 PM (#4386375)
Actually, I take it back. Even in retrospect, it wouldn't have been better to let it go. He got in his way enough that there was some non-zero probability that Jordan would miss the dunk and have to make the free throws. And there was also a fairly large probability that Jordan would miss the and-1 anyway, though he didn't.


That dunk isn't as impressive if Brandon Knight clears out, then its just bad defense. If you force a guy to make a highlight-of-the-year candidate to score, you've probably played good defense. Props to Brandon for contesting him there.
   284. smileyy Posted: March 11, 2013 at 02:00 PM (#4386378)
not my team but i think the rose kid has every reason to take his time. a basketball player's knees are the basis of his livelihood.


And hamstring injuries never miraculously get better. Maybe as much as knees, a hamstring injury can be a hinder an entire career.
   285. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: March 11, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4386393)
Remember this though, Deng has been putting off wrist surgery for over a year now, also rocking a bad hamstring. Noah is battling foot issues, Heinrich can get on the court with out getting hurt but they keep trying to playing through it and do everything they can. if rose isnt coming back then why should those guys bother going through all this? shut em down and get a good draft pick.

edited to add I dont think this is what they should do, and I think rose will be back with in a week and a half
   286. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: March 11, 2013 at 02:34 PM (#4386400)
if rose isnt coming back then why should those guys bother going through all this? shut em down and get a good draft pick.

I know what you're saying, but...

Toronto is 10 games behind the Bulls and Philly is 11 back. If the Bulls lose their last 19 games, can the Raps go 11-7 or Philly go 13-7 to pass them?
   287. smileyy Posted: March 11, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4386432)
[285] So the problem is not so much Rose's status, but a (possibly) delayed decision on the consequences of that. I guess it remains to be seen if there's an internal timeline of "If Rose isn't back on the court by (say) April 1, we shut the rest of the guys down." I think the team would be foolish to not have that deadline. It doesn't mean you throw it all away this year, but this season is not the season to be optimizing for.
   288. Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits Posted: March 11, 2013 at 05:33 PM (#4386551)
Kyrie Irving, hurt again. This time his shoulder, and he's out 3-4 weeks.
   289. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 11, 2013 at 09:17 PM (#4386644)
So Brandon Knight is on the ground, being looked at by trainers. Yikes.
   290. bigboy1234 Posted: March 11, 2013 at 10:01 PM (#4386657)
Arguably the two best teams in the league going at it and they can't even get it on ESPN or TNT? Shame on you NBA.
   291. RollingWave Posted: March 11, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4386678)
Wooo, the Parker less Spurs schooling the perfectly healthy Thunder.

Bill Simmons did a interview with Tony Parker around the ASG, and he made a good analogy that the Spurs are kinda like the Larry Bird era Celtics, people keep writting them off as old but they stuck with it till the bitter end and were usually very competitive.

   292. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 11, 2013 at 11:15 PM (#4386696)
the mavs have signed chris wright (the ex-georgetown pg) to a 10 day deal. this is notable as he'll be the first (known) nba player who's been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.
   293. andrewberg Posted: March 12, 2013 at 01:06 AM (#4386724)
Alright! I always wanted Chris Wright to get in an NBA game.
   294. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: March 12, 2013 at 05:17 AM (#4386734)
What is the deal with Byron (don't call me BJ) Mullens? He took one three in college, none in two years of sparse garbage time in OKC. Last year he took less than one a game, and now all of a sudden this 7 footer is leading the Bobcats with 4.3 3PA/G (5.3 per 36 min)? He is hitting them at a 31 percent clip so it's not like he's developed like Channing Frye or whatever (who started shooting threes when he got to Phoenix, and was at 44 percent his first year). Are the Bobcats (who I have not watched a minute of this season) running some weird D'Antoni like scheme or something?
   295. smileyy Posted: March 12, 2013 at 01:31 PM (#4386924)
[292/3] Which is funny, because in college I would have assumed that Georgetown's Chris Wright would be more likely to be in the NBA than Dayton's Christ Wright.
   296. smileyy Posted: March 12, 2013 at 01:35 PM (#4386929)
Bill Simmons did a interview with Tony Parker around the ASG, and he made a good analogy that the Spurs are kinda like the Larry Bird era Celtics, people keep writting them off as old but they stuck with it till the bitter end and were usually very competitive.


The San Antonio Spurs are like the Keyser Soze -- nobody knows who they are. Sure, Duncan is 36 and Ginobili is 35, but Parker is only 30, and a lot of their other key contributors (Leonard, Splitter, Green) are young.
   297. smileyy Posted: March 12, 2013 at 01:43 PM (#4386938)
What is the deal with Byron (don't call me BJ) Mullens? He took one three in college, none in two years of sparse garbage time in OKC. Last year he took less than one a game, and now all of a sudden this 7 footer is leading the Bobcats with 4.3 3PA/G (5.3 per 36 min)?


Amusingly, he and Kenny Kadji (University of Miami's 3-point shooting center) were both top-10 centers in the same recruiting class.
   298. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: March 12, 2013 at 01:43 PM (#4386939)
295 - me too
294 - i think it's just a bad team trying to see if they can make an asset more valuable
posted this in the wrong thread last night, but haddadi had another good game - career high 13 pts in 18 or 19 min, plus 8 reb
   299. andrewberg Posted: March 12, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4386979)
295 - me too


Gtown version just does not have NBA size. He's a shoot first PG who is too small to be a plus defensively. While he is skilled, I can see why teams wouldn't care much about giving him a second look.
   300. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: March 12, 2013 at 03:28 PM (#4387040)
Gtown version just does not have NBA size. He's a shoot first PG who is too small to be a plus defensively. While he is skilled, I can see why teams wouldn't care much about giving him a second look.


This reminds me of a certain other Big East alum, who the best player in history decided to draft with a lottery pick a couple years back...
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