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Saturday, March 01, 2014

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - March 2014

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: whether civilization peaked during the reign of Queen Victoria, or the reign of Jimmy Carter.

Sadly, LeBron will have to get used to disappointment.

The District Attorney Posted: March 01, 2014 at 09:03 PM | 789 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   201. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: March 09, 2014 at 10:09 PM (#4668839)
flip
   202. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 09, 2014 at 10:38 PM (#4668848)
Spurs have the best record in basketball again.
   203. bibigon Posted: March 09, 2014 at 10:38 PM (#4668849)
I think that's a little pessimistic. Sure the Heat have Lebron. But Wade is no longer a significant factor. He might actually be a liability at this point, as he thinks he can still do things he no longer can. I think it could be interesting.

What now?
   204. Spivey Posted: March 09, 2014 at 11:08 PM (#4668857)
Is there anything to make of Indiana and the Heat losing their last few games?

Regarding Wade, I think he gets beaten up a bit too much because he gets unfairly held to the standard of trying to be as good as LeBron. But he's been one of the best players in the NBA for about the last 8 years. He's still very good. The idea that he's holding them back and they just need more Norris Cole is absurd.
   205. rr Posted: March 09, 2014 at 11:14 PM (#4668858)
Indiana and Miami have now lost their last seven combined.

I watched POR/HOU on League Pass. I made a comment during preseason that I expected that one of the West teams would make a Rasheed04 or Pau08 trade and and get in the driver's seat. Didn't happen, so as noted, the West is wide open, and the West playoffs will have a lot of games like POR/HOU today.
   206. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 09, 2014 at 11:16 PM (#4668861)
Yeah, I think Wade has done great playing within himself this year. The Bulls won because they came out with a ton of energy and know how to defend MIA. The issue in a CHI-MIA matchup or, almost anything with CHI (from an outsider's perspective), is that they don't have the margin for error when they aren't playing like crazy people. It's very difficult to sustain their effort level.
   207. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 10, 2014 at 12:31 AM (#4668875)
Spurs have the best record in basketball again.

I came to post the same thing. It's amazing.
   208. RollingWave Posted: March 10, 2014 at 08:50 PM (#4669270)
GSW is in 6th place and is 2 losses ahead of the #9 Memphis Grizzlies. They have an incredible starting line up. Their SRS is #8 in the league. Portland "feels" overrated, but again you look at their lineup of Lillard/Mathews/Batum/Aldrige/Lopez and it's pretty damn good. It makes me wonder why they sucked so much last year.


Growth from Lillard and going from Hickson to Lopez does a lot of good, and also a mildly competent bench, of course, it also helps that they won a higher portion of close games than typically expected.

   209. tshipman Posted: March 10, 2014 at 09:15 PM (#4669278)
Spurs have the best record in basketball again.


They are like cockroaches. The team leader in MPG is Parker with 30.8.

At some point, Pop is just going to field lines like they do in hockey and still win 55 games.
   210. madvillain Posted: March 10, 2014 at 09:35 PM (#4669282)
That Houston/Portland game last night was downright unwatchable at the end. Harden's flop at the end of regulation was especially awesome. Both teams were just flopping and crashing into each other. My buddy suggested widening the court and moving the corner 3 back a bit -- I think he's correct. Something needs to be done, the players are just too big and too fast and too good at shooting for the current configuration.

It was a great finish last night, but it wasn't what any sort of person younger than 20 would consider "fluid basketball". I don't think that's a good thing, but maybe I'm just getting old.

Yeah, I think Wade has done great playing within himself this year. The Bulls won because they came out with a ton of energy and know how to defend MIA. The issue in a CHI-MIA matchup or, almost anything with CHI (from an outsider's perspective), is that they don't have the margin for error when they aren't playing like crazy people. It's very difficult to sustain their effort level.


Welcome to last year's team, this year. It's been great watching them, heck it got me posting in this thread again I'm so happy with the team, but they aren't going to win anything without more scoring. I'm hoping hard for 'Melo, because I think it's their last great shot to win with Noah. Forget Rose at this point, although everyone knows my feelings for the man, but it's not his team at this point, it's Noah's and Thibs'. Get Melo and get to business.
   211. RollingWave Posted: March 10, 2014 at 10:14 PM (#4669293)
Well I been without access for nearly 10 days (thanks, China.) so i've got a lot of catching up to do.
   212. GregD Posted: March 10, 2014 at 10:18 PM (#4669297)
Broussard says it "looks like" Phil will take the Knicks job...
   213. RollingWave Posted: March 10, 2014 at 10:22 PM (#4669300)
Sheesh, I feel really bad for the Wolfs, they gone 7-3 in the last 10 and is getting elminated from the playoff picture, this is crazy, i'd take any of the Wolfs / Suns / Grizz / Mavs over any non Pacer / Heat team in the east
   214. Bitter Mouse Posted: March 11, 2014 at 08:03 AM (#4669373)
Sheesh, I feel really bad for the Wolfs


It is their own damn fault. They lost way too many close games early in the year, for which there is no excuse. Oh well, there is always next year I guess.
   215. andrewberg Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:31 AM (#4669501)
There has not been much talk about Phil to the Knicks, but I have to say that what I have read about it sounds dubious. While I don't know all of the connections behind the scenes and who owns which media outlet, it appears that the NY papers are either trying to anoint Phil and push Mills out of town or submarine his credibility (by saying that "agents" don't trust him- sounds like Mills and CAA backchannels, but what do I know?). Even if this holds together long enough for him to take the job, it's hard to imagine a universe in which Phil is allowed to run the team and Dolan leaves him to it. To quote McNulty in 300, "This will not be over quickly. You will not enjoy this."
   216. GregD Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4669504)
I'm interested in the theory that Phil is orchestrating this to force the Lakers to match...

I cannot imagine a rational, rich person working for the Knicks after seeing the way Dolan sabotaged Walsh. Obviously as you say the odds of that happening to Phil are 100%.
   217. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:39 AM (#4669507)
If I may: The Knicks are in a desert. The Knicks have a bottle of water. They dump the water in the sand because #### the water. They become thirsty. Luckily, there is an oasis with more water. But #### the water. The Knicks insist on having champagne airlifted in from thousands of miles away even though champagne is extremely expensive and might not last the trip intact and might make them drunk and disoriented and doesn't necessarily even quench thirst. This is how this feels to me. Any other team drinks water when its thirsty. If they need a GM, they grab a GM. The Knicks won't do that. They refuse to behave like a normal team.

With someone like Jackson, "winning culture" really refers to an aura-- a majestic way of being that attracts the good and overrides the bad. Phil Jackson has done lots of Winning, so he is Winning. Forget the context, forget that it was a completely different job under completely different circumstances. He is Winning, so if you put him in your thing, then he'll make your thing do Winning.

-Seth Rosenthal
   218. jmurph Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:40 AM (#4669508)
Well I just saw $12 million per year being floated, so maybe he can convince himself it's worth it.
   219. Jimmy P Posted: March 11, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4669520)
Well I just saw $12 million per year being floated, so maybe he can convince himself it's worth it.


That, and it's going to feed his ego. Phil was a great coach, but these last few years he's been far more interested in getting his ego stroked than doing actual work. This is a quick way for him to make a buck and get a lot of publicity.
   220. GregD Posted: March 11, 2014 at 12:32 PM (#4669542)
I thought the whole point of having Phil Jackson-type money with giant ranches and beachfront houses was that you could tell punks like Dolan to go #### themselves when they tried to have their press flunkies follow you to keep you from talking to reporters?

If it turns out that having that much money just gives you the opportunity to get paid more to get bullied by Dolan, then money is overrated.
   221. AROM, Instagram Gangsta Posted: March 11, 2014 at 01:26 PM (#4669591)
If it turns out that having that much money just gives you the opportunity to get paid more to get bullied by Dolan, then money is overrated.


Maybe for the millionaires. But if having billions means someone like Dolan can get Phil Jackson to submit to your bullying, then it must be pretty sweet to have billionaire money.
   222. jmurph Posted: March 11, 2014 at 01:30 PM (#4669593)
I thought the whole point of having Phil Jackson-type money with giant ranches and beachfront houses was that you could tell punks like Dolan to go #### themselves when they tried to have their press flunkies follow you to keep you from talking to reporters?

If it turns out that having that much money just gives you the opportunity to get paid more to get bullied by Dolan, then money is overrated.


Well if I had Phil's money I would have retired sometime during the first Bulls run, but then, I'm super lazy and have no particular career goals. I'm beginning to understand that's at least part of the reason I don't have Phil's money.
   223. madvillain Posted: March 11, 2014 at 01:39 PM (#4669600)
Well if I had Phil's money I would have retired sometime during the first Bulls run, but then, I'm super lazy and have no particular career goals. I'm beginning to understand that's at least part of the reason I don't have Phil's money.


Ha, I'm curious as to how they will publicly structure Jackson's role. Ever since the Wheel Chair (Donny Walsh) left the Knicks have ostensibly been run by Steve Mills, if they retain Mills (would he even want to stay?) and put Jackson in some sort of VP/Special Consul role I don't really see much changing in Knicks Land. If, and this is a big if, Dolan clears house of his cronies (like Mills) and lets Jackson run the FO, then maybe they have a chance.


How about Tim Hardaway Jr? I really wish Chicago had drafted him and not Snell. Snell is alright, but Tim has the ability to light it up, something Chicago needs more than a 3rd perimeter defender. Don't tell Thibs though.
   224. ASmitty Posted: March 11, 2014 at 01:44 PM (#4669602)
Maybe for the millionaires. But if having billions means someone like Dolan can get Phil Jackson to submit to your bullying, then it must be pretty sweet to have billionaire money.


To quote Louis CK: "Bill Gates has 85 billion dollars. That means he can lose 80 billion dollars and still have 5 billion dollars left."
   225. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 11, 2014 at 01:57 PM (#4669612)
How about Tim Hardaway Jr? I really wish Chicago had drafted him and not Snell. Snell is alright, but Tim has the ability to light it up, something Chicago needs more than a 3rd perimeter defender. Don't tell Thibs though.

Tim Hardaway, Jr. is on the short list for worst defenders I've ever seen. And I'm a Knicks fan who stayed with the team AVG (After Van Gundy).
   226. GregD Posted: March 11, 2014 at 02:19 PM (#4669622)
Maybe for the millionaires. But if having billions means someone like Dolan can get Phil Jackson to submit to your bullying, then it must be pretty sweet to have billionaire money.
This is an excellent point!
   227. madvillain Posted: March 11, 2014 at 04:22 PM (#4669757)
Tim Hardaway, Jr. is on the short list for worst defenders I've ever seen. And I'm a Knicks fan who stayed with the team AVG (After Van Gundy).


Yea, but that's pretty much all rookies. Defense can be learned, the ability to fill it up usually can't. Plus, he's a perimeter player, any defense he plays is a bonus. It's not like he's a center.
   228. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 11, 2014 at 04:23 PM (#4669759)
I hate Patrick Beverley. Am I alone in this?
   229. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 11, 2014 at 04:27 PM (#4669766)
Yea, but that's pretty much all rookies. Defense can be learned, the ability to fill it up usually can't. Plus, he's a perimeter player, any defense he plays is a bonus. It's not like he's a center.

If the issue was his understanding/application of team defensive principles (not that the Knicks have any, but stay with me) I would agree, but he just can't stay in front of anyone. Whenever he is in the game, smart teams run the PnR to get him isolated against a ball handler and just destroy him. Either it's a serious lateral quickness issue or some sort of reaction issue, but he is physically incapable of staying in front of his man. He probably should have been drafted higher than he was, but man...is the defense awful. Overall he looks like a 3 and D guy but without the D. Not sure how much value that has.
   230. TFTIO is familiar with the works of Pablo Neruda Posted: March 11, 2014 at 08:23 PM (#4669882)
Maybe for the millionaires. But if having billions means someone like Dolan can get Phil Jackson to submit to your bullying, then it must be pretty sweet to have billionaire money.

I shudder to think what my untrammeled id would do with A BILLION DOLLARS. Egad.
   231. The District Attorney Posted: March 11, 2014 at 08:44 PM (#4669892)
I hate Patrick Beverley. Am I alone in this?
For one thing, there's a country of over a billion people who probably overwhelmingly agree with you...

Jackson as a Knicks exec seems like a half-filled glass thing. The "half-full" point of view is that Jackson seems like the best chance you'd ever have for Dolan to listen to anyone else; the "half-empty" point of view is that if he still won't listen, it'd mean you're irreparably screwed.

The relative lack of discussion of it here is probably the appropriate response, given how often Jackson seems to mull over opportunities in public and then decline them.

I will say that I'd miss Steve Kerr as an announcer, and would think he would probably be a good coach. He seems very intelligent and grounded.
   232. steagles Posted: March 11, 2014 at 09:00 PM (#4669900)
For one thing, there's a country of over a billion people who probably overwhelmingly agree with you...
and he tore russell westbrook's ACL in last year's playoffs.
   233. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 11, 2014 at 09:35 PM (#4669910)
I love p-bev. He's a pretty good villain, tho
   234. Spivey Posted: March 11, 2014 at 09:45 PM (#4669913)
BYU has this really good kid Mika. I think he has a future in the NBA.
   235. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 11, 2014 at 10:48 PM (#4669939)
I just the Grantland "Patrick Beverley Appreciation Thread".
1) Sharp said:
Every high school basketball team has a Patrick Beverley: someone who’s not that good, tries way, way, wayyyyyy too hard on defense, and drives everyone else insane. One of my friends was like this as a freshman in high school, practicing with the varsity. He played that way for two weeks before one of the seniors stopped a scrimmage and punched him in the face. Which, coincidentally, already happened to Patrick Beverley.

I didn't play on the HS team, not even good enough for that, but I was totally that guy. Never had a teammate do that, but multiple other dudes did - one breaking my nose.
So of course I love Beverley.

2) I'd never seen the Beverley v. Jrue clip therein. Good Lord.



   236. sardonic Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:02 PM (#4669941)
So just had a thought while watching the Warriors-Mavs game... it feels like the Warriors don't shoot many corner threes relative to their overall number of three point shots. Most threes seem to be either on the wing off of a pindown screen (Klay Thompson) or off a drive and kick (Barnes) or near the top of the key as the result of Curry pulling up on a pick and roll. I wonder how much of that is a conscious strategy to try to help the Warriors transition defense by limiting long rebounds with guards deep on the court. Just qualitatively the Warriors seem pretty good at this. I lack the knowledge to look at this myself, but I wonder if there's a correlation between corner three attempts (or misses) and transition opportunities/defense in general.
   237. theboyqueen Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:30 PM (#4669952)
What is going on in that game? Steve Blake is +26 in 11 minutes of run.

It certainly seems that the Warriors take threes with the highest degree of difficulty in the league -- one of the luxuries of having shooters like they do. Stephen Curry's three point percentage is simply not comparable to someone like Kyle Korver's and there may well be secondary benefits to his approach. I like your theory about how this helps transition defense.
   238. theboyqueen Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:35 PM (#4669955)
There are two interesting videos linked on Steph Curry's stats page on ESPN right now. One is of him getting swept by his coach Mark Jackson in a standard three point shooting contest. The other is of him hitting multiple threes left handed. I think that basically summarizes the uniqueness of his ability.
   239. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:47 PM (#4669966)
With Phoenix dropping into 9th, the Suns improved their draft pick from 21st to 14th.

Of the East's current playoff teams, only TWO have better records than the West's No. 8.
   240. sardonic Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:50 PM (#4669967)
The Warriors bench has been on fire since Steve Blake joined at the trade deadline, and Mark Jackson is limiting Curry's minutes since he has a slight quad issue and the Warriors are playing the Clippers tomorrow. Crawford is 5-6 with 14 points, and the Warriors are also exploiting their size advantage inside, Bogut has 3 lob dunks already, two from Curry.
   241. GregD Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:22 AM (#4669974)
Post saysPhil agreed verbally on Saturday to become team president and the lawyers are completing the contract over the course of the week.
   242. Maxwn Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:30 AM (#4669977)
With Phoenix dropping into 9th, the Suns improved their draft pick from 21st to 14th.

Of the East's current playoff teams, only TWO have better records than the West's No. 8.

Hell you are underselling it a little bit. Phoenix at the 9 has got a half-game on Toronto.
   243. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2014 at 09:45 AM (#4670057)
Steve Blake is +26 in 11 minutes of run.


Steve Blake's continued run as a perfectly good rotation player is incredible to me. If you would have told me in 2000 or 2001 that he'd A. play in the NBA and B. play this long, I never would have believed it. Forget pass-first, he was basically a pass-only guy in college.
   244. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2014 at 09:52 AM (#4670067)
Of the East's current playoff teams, only TWO have better records than the West's No. 8.


The last time I posted about this I didn't endorse it, but jeez, maybe it really is time to look at realignment. This year is much worse than normal, sure, but the Western dominance has gone on for quite a while now.
   245. rr Posted: March 12, 2014 at 09:55 AM (#4670069)
Blake is a good example of how changing from a really terrible guy to a more-or-less OK guy can help a contender at the margins. Haberstroh, in talking about the Blake deal, suggested that it might be the kind of move that could swing one playoff game for Golden State, and as such was worth doing. Blake's best game as a Laker was probably Game 7 of the first round against Denver back in 2012. Blake was brought in to succeed Fisher as the heady/veteran Triangle PG but Blake was never actually that comfortable in the Triangle. He looked better under MDA than he did under Phil.

The trade has worked for the Lakers as well, as Bazemore and Brooks have had some nice moments, and one of them might stick as a bench guy on a MDA team.

I was against the Blake contract when the Lakers gave it to him back in 2010-11--thought it was too long, etc. Still think so, but I can see why Blake has stuck around so long. He keeps himself in great shape, tries really hard, mostly plays within himself, and never says a word. I still don't like him that much as a player, but given GS's bench, I am not that surprised that he is helping them.
   246. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 10:02 AM (#4670076)
I didn't play on the HS team, not even good enough for that, but I was totally that guy. Never had a teammate do that, but multiple other dudes did - one breaking my nose. So of course I love Beverley.

I think he's a dirty player. Maybe not as bad as Wade was a couple years back, but he plays (and is allowed by the refs to play) this hyper aggressive brand of defense that inevitably leads to tempers flaring and I just hate watching it. There's nothing inherently wrong with pressuring the ball, but a lot of Beverley's good defense, IMO, is him just whacking at the ball until the ref (finally) calls something or he manages a steal. For an example of a guy who played full court press without all the crap Beverley does there's Avery Bradley in his early years.
   247. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2014 at 10:13 AM (#4670086)
Still think so, but I can see why Blake has stuck around so long. He keeps himself in great shape, tries really hard, mostly plays within himself, and never says a word.


Yeah he basically looks exactly the same as he did 14 years ago, only now he can shoot.
   248. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 12, 2014 at 10:14 AM (#4670087)
246 - Agreed.
   249. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: March 12, 2014 at 11:07 AM (#4670138)
he plays (and is allowed by the refs to play) this hyper aggressive brand of defense that inevitably leads to tempers flaring and I just hate watching it


My eyes are tainted by my Westbrook love, but I agree.
   250. just plain joe Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:14 PM (#4670226)
I shudder to think what my untrammeled id would do with A BILLION DOLLARS. Egad.


The first thing I would do is buy a company where I used to work and then fire anyone in upper management who remained from my time there. This would only cost me 20-25 million and I would still have more money than I could ever spend before I die.
   251. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:20 PM (#4670233)
I shudder to think what my untrammeled id would do with A BILLION DOLLARS. Egad.

I'll tell you what I'd do, man: 2,000 chicks at the same time, man.
   252. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:24 PM (#4670237)
(on 246: sorry, i mean i agree w/ you NJ w/ the obvious exception that i _like_ watching it)

251: Heh.
   253. Manny Coon Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:34 PM (#4670247)
Of the East's current playoff teams, only TWO have better records than the West's No. 8.

The last time I posted about this I didn't endorse it, but jeez, maybe it really is time to look at realignment. This year is much worse than normal, sure, but the Western dominance has gone on for quite a while now.


Maybe they could add two expansion teams, both out west (Seattle and ?), then move one of Memphis/Minnesota East. It would give the west some needed doormat teams and move a decent team East, assuming those teams stay reasonably good.

The East has 6 of the top 16 at least this year, so it's really only Minnesota and Phoenix that are likely lose spot, but neither team is a real contender either. If Horford hadn't got hurt the East might not look as bad either, as Charlotte would be only really bad team making the playoffs in that case.
   254. sardonic Posted: March 12, 2014 at 01:29 PM (#4670324)
Steve Blake coming in and dramatically boosting the Warriors' bench is just as much about who they had before... I think he's a perfectly cromulent backup PG/rotation player, but when you were relying on Jordan Crawford and Toney Douglas out there before and counting on them to initiate offense and be smart with the ball, that's the definition of being way below replacement level. I'll add that having Jermaine O'Neal fully healthy and in-season development from Draymond Green (shooting and interior passing) has helped too.

Of course, it's possible that Blake is just making them all look better... hard to disentangle these effects. Harrison Barnes has looked a step more explosive recently as well, skying for rebounds and getting to the rim a little more effectively than earlier in the season, though that just means he looks one step less athletic than last year instead of two. I'm convinced (hopeful) that after the season we'll find out he was dealing with a nagging injury or something.
   255. sardonic Posted: March 12, 2014 at 01:32 PM (#4670328)
The other thing that gets me about Blake is if you had told me in 2001 that he'd start almost 10 times as many games as Jay Williams and score almost 7x as many points...
   256. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2014 at 03:04 PM (#4670436)
Maybe they could add two expansion teams, both out west (Seattle and ?), then move one of Memphis/Minnesota East. It would give the west some needed doormat teams and move a decent team East, assuming those teams stay reasonably good.


Eh, I don't know if expanding is going to help the complete lack of talent on most of the Eastern squads.

The main problem with realignment is that, of the handful of teams that could even conceivably be mixed around- Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, OKC, New Orleans, Memphis, Minneapolis, Indy, Chicago, Milwaukee- 7 of the 10 of them are in one conference. Moving New Orleans, Memphis, and Minnesota to the East and Indy, Chicago, and Milwaukee to the West would just screw the latter 3.

(EDIT: Maybe Houston is east of Minneapolis? I'm not a cartographer.)
   257. Jimmy P Posted: March 12, 2014 at 04:04 PM (#4670496)
How is the NBA going to justify Phil working for the Knicks while Jeanie is President of the Lakers? I can't imagine the NBA allowing two members of the same family to run two different franchises. Why hasn't anyone brought this up?
   258. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 04:14 PM (#4670507)
Phil Jackson as Knicks President is going to add another chapter to the epic Riley-Jackson feud especially if Phil really is Winning and somehow turns the Knicks around and he's able to accomplish what Riley never could in NY.

EDIT: Lakers fans will have a better sense of Phil's side of this, but as Knicks fan, it always felt very clear that Riley (and by extension, JVG) did not like Phil and that rivalry was a real thing.
   259. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 04:19 PM (#4670515)
The main problem with realignment is that, of the handful of teams that could even conceivably be mixed around- Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, OKC, New Orleans, Memphis, Minneapolis, Indy, Chicago, Milwaukee- 7 of the 10 of them are in one conference. Moving New Orleans, Memphis, and Minnesota to the East and Indy, Chicago, and Milwaukee to the West would just screw the latter 3.


Senior Circuit:
East
Atlanta
Boston
New York
Philadelphia
Washington

Central
Chicago
Detroit
Houston
Milwaukee
Oklahoma City

West
Golden State
LA Lakers
Phoenix
Sacramento

Junior Circuit:
East
Brooklyn
Charlotte
Miami
Orlando
Toronto

Central
Cleveland
Indiana
Minnesota
Memphis
New Orleans

West
Dallas
Denver
LA Clippers
Portland
Utah
San Antonio

Hmm, most of the good teams would be in the Junior Circuit though. I think this actually makes things much worse.

You're welcome!
   260. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 12, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4670519)
Slide SA to the senior circuit; they're old school by any reasonable standard.
   261. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 12, 2014 at 04:35 PM (#4670534)
This reminds me of when Bill Parcells was put in charge of the Dolphins, for everything except… coaching. But they won 11 games in his first season! The Knicks are bound to win more than that next year.
   262. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 12, 2014 at 09:41 PM (#4670680)
"I'm not mad. I'm disappointed."

I can't imagine what it'd feel like to disappoint Larry Bird.
   263. rr Posted: March 12, 2014 at 09:50 PM (#4670682)
Guess NJ has me on ignore. Can't say that I blame him:

187. robinred Posted: March 08, 2014 at 08:49 PM (#4668453)
The source on the Phil thing is Stephen A...but

I am actually a little skeptical about how Phil would do in a personnel role, in that I wonder how much he would engage with advanced stats and I think he might lean too heavily on older players.

And, of course...Dolan.

That said, I do think that Phil would see running the Knicks as the capstone to his career--he would have been a player, coach or exec in the three biggest markets in sports, and he would be finishing his NBA career where he started it. And it would give him a chance to do something Pat Riley could not do--win a title as an Exec in the Big Apple.
   264. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: March 12, 2014 at 10:24 PM (#4670696)
There is a downside for the Zen Master. If he doesn't win in New York, one could argue that he was never able to win a title without having a championship core already in place.
   265. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 10:52 PM (#4670703)
My bad, rr, missed that.
   266. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: March 12, 2014 at 11:29 PM (#4670708)
Suns struggling at home vs. CLE. A loss drops Phoenix to within 3-1/2 games of Minny. If the T'Wolves end up passing the Suns for 14th overall and don't move up in the lottery, then Minny's pick goes to Phoenix. This sets up some weird tanking scenarios down the stretch,
   267. thok Posted: March 12, 2014 at 11:45 PM (#4670711)
As I said when the trade happened, apparently Steve Blake is the new Jarrett Jack.
   268. RollingWave Posted: March 13, 2014 at 03:40 AM (#4670726)
There is a downside for the Zen Master. If he doesn't win in New York, one could argue that he was never able to win a title without having a championship core already in place.
Then again, as Lebron in Cleveland proves, that even with one of the best players of all time you can easily F it up
   269. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:18 AM (#4670778)
wrong thread
   270. Kurt Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:29 AM (#4670792)
Steve Blake's continued run as a perfectly good rotation player is incredible to me. If you would have told me in 2000 or 2001 that he'd A. play in the NBA and B. play this long, I never would have believed it. Forget pass-first, he was basically a pass-only guy in college.


Understandable, considering he played for a national champion with three other first round picks.
   271. vagab0nd (no longer an outl13r) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 10:17 AM (#4670827)
Understandable, considering he played for a national champion with three other first round picks.


2 firsts [Chris Wilcox, Juan Dixon] and 2 seconds [Lonny Baxter, Terrance Morris]. Your point that he had a lot of talent around him is still valid.
   272. AROM, Instagram Gangsta Posted: March 13, 2014 at 11:20 AM (#4670883)
How is the NBA going to justify Phil working for the Knicks while Jeanie is President of the Lakers?


We don't have to worry about NYY-KCA style trades from the 1950's involving young, promising, cheap players flowing from the farm team to the championship team (not sure which is the farm or parent anyway), since neither team has players fitting those criteria.
   273. Jimmy P Posted: March 13, 2014 at 11:47 AM (#4670898)
There is a downside for the Zen Master. If he doesn't win in New York, one could argue that he was never able to win a title without having a championship core already in place.


Totally different jobs, though. He's going to more of a GM figure. I'd be shocked if he names himself coach. If (when) he fails to remake the Knicks, it says nothing about his coaching ability.

We don't have to worry about NYY-KCA style trades from the 1950's involving young, promising, cheap players flowing from the farm team to the championship team (not sure which is the farm or parent anyway), since neither team has players fitting those criteria.

No. But, the perception that the LA team and the New York team are being run from the same house looks pretty terrible for fans in other cities. Especially the small cities.
   274. GregD Posted: March 13, 2014 at 11:57 AM (#4670904)
It looks funny but it would be a pretty specific rule that bars the team's representative to the Board of Governors from being engaged to a president or consultant for another team.

More broadly the whole reason he would end up in NY is because Jeanie Buss doesn't have any power in the Lakers organization.
   275. rr Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:06 PM (#4670908)
No. But, the perception that the LA team and the New York team are being run from the same house looks pretty terrible for fans in other cities. Especially the small cities.


Sure, but if you rank the NBA orgs 1-30 right now based on:

1. Current talent
2. Future prospects
3. Confidence in management and coaching

The Lakers and the Knicks would probably be the bottom two teams. As Pelton noted in chat last week, the Lakers have the worst roster in the West and maybe in the NBA, as well as very few upcoming draft picks and almost 50M committed to a 36-year-old guy who will have played 6 games in 18 months if and when he takes the court again. The Knicks have Anthony (maybe) and Chandler, but their situation is obviously bleak in many respects as well. Brooklyn at least has turned into a pretty decent team for this year and has a good chance to win a playoff series.

So, while I can certainly own that I am twitchy about it due to my big-market Lakers fandom, I don't see any OMFG big-market narratives as being at all convincing right now.

All that said, although the comp is far from perfect, as was the case with The Veto, the appearance of conflict of interest in built in, so that does look bad. OTOH, Jim Buss, not Jeanie Buss, makes final basketball decisions for the Lakers, and in all likelihood the last guy Jim Buss wants to deal with is Phil Jackson.
   276. GregD Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:12 PM (#4670914)
Grantland says the Knicks offer was an effort to keep Phil from going to the Nets.
   277. Jimmy P Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:13 PM (#4670916)
It looks funny but it would be a pretty specific rule that bars the team's representative to the Board of Governors from being engaged to a president or consultant for another team.


Isn't she the President? Even if not, she is a partial owner. I'd have to think that there are rules that a partial owner of one team can't have a family member be a part of another team.
   278. GregD Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:37 PM (#4670938)
She is the president but says she has little input and often no forewarning on team decisions

Is a fiancee a family member? If you make the rule contingent on them not getting married...I assume they just won't get married. If you make the rule a relationship, then you're going to have a bunch of fights over what is a relationship.
   279. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:37 PM (#4670939)
Chandler+Amar'e for Kobe. Bookmark this comment.
   280. AROM, Instagram Gangsta Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:49 PM (#4670943)
Kendall Marshall has turned into a pretty useful player. Do the Lakers have any contract rights on him beyond the year or is he a free agent?

I'm guessing it would be similar to the Jeremy Lin situation, but Marshall was a first rounder so it might be different.
   281. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 12:52 PM (#4670946)
Speaking of Jeanie - I love her twitter account picture strategically placed basketballs
   282. GregD Posted: March 13, 2014 at 01:06 PM (#4670958)
Does she in person look really good for 52 or is she one of those people who look much better in photos? I always think she's 10-15 years younger than she is.
   283. andrewberg Posted: March 13, 2014 at 01:51 PM (#4670982)
Is a fiancee a family member? If you make the rule contingent on them not getting married...I assume they just won't get married. If you make the rule a relationship, then you're going to have a bunch of fights over what is a relationship.


I have had to deal with a case involving almost an identical question in a professional capacity lately. I will say this- people have wildly divergent expectations on this dating/conflict of interest relationship. I would be surprised if the NBA had anything on the books to prevent it, and I doubt they would enforce it even if they could (Phil has to be good for the league).
   284. Kurt Posted: March 13, 2014 at 02:03 PM (#4670986)
2 firsts [Chris Wilcox, Juan Dixon] and 2 seconds [Lonny Baxter, Terrance Morris]. Your point that he had a lot of talent around him is still valid.


Thanks, for some reason my (fading) memory had Baxter as a late first.
   285. vagab0nd (no longer an outl13r) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 03:25 PM (#4671019)
We don't have to worry about NYY-KCA style trades from the 1950's involving young, promising, cheap players flowing from the farm team to the championship team (not sure which is the farm or parent anyway), since neither team has players fitting those criteria.

No. But, the perception that the LA team and the New York team are being run from the same house looks pretty terrible for fans in other cities. Especially the small cities.


I eagerly anticipate seeing what font Dan Gilbert is now using.
   286. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 05:33 PM (#4671118)
Wiggins with another big game. 30-8-3-3 against OK St.
   287. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: March 13, 2014 at 06:10 PM (#4671147)
Between his 71 points on 35 shots in the last 2 games, and Embiid's stress fracture, Wiggins #1 is looking a lot more certain.
   288. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: March 13, 2014 at 07:17 PM (#4671185)
Between his 71 points on 35 shots in the last 2 games, and Embiid's stress fracture, Wiggins #1 is looking a lot more certain.


I'm taking Jabari. Am I crazy?
   289. Quaker Posted: March 13, 2014 at 08:30 PM (#4671214)
Morris was not on the national champion Terps team. I believe Mouton was the starting 3.
   290. Spivey Posted: March 13, 2014 at 08:42 PM (#4671219)
I'm taking Jabari. Am I crazy?


Jabari is better today. He isn't near the athlete that Wiggins is though, and Wiggins really is improving. I don't think you could go wrong with either, but my vote is swinging back to Wiggins.
   291. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: March 13, 2014 at 08:48 PM (#4671221)
I'm an optimist at heart. I see all the expiring Knicks contract after next season, and I think there's hope. Keep Carmelo, hire Phil, and there could be some positive happenings during the offseason. Chandler should have trade value.
   292. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:16 PM (#4671229)
Kevin Durant thinks Kobe is as good as Jordan. Matt Moore thinks Kobe is Top 5.:
“He's the greatest of all time. His skill is second to none. Him and MJ are neck and neck as far as skill,” Durant said. “Kobe is the top two best ever in just having skill, footwork, shooting the 3, shooting the pull-up, posting up, dunking on guys and ball handling. Kobe and Jordan are 1 and 1A."

Bryant has to go down as a top-five player on any list. From there, you can debate the rest.
   293. GregD Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:22 PM (#4671233)
Keep Carmelo, hire Phil, and there could be some positive happenings during the offseason. Chandler should have trade value.
I am curious what Phil means for Carmelo. Half the columns say he's being brought it to show Carmelo the organization has a plan and convince him to stay. Half say he's being brought in to send Carmelo on his way and start over. If Carmelo opted out and they didn't resign him, then 1) next year they would have a chance to be near-historically bad, and 2) they would have A LOT of space opening up in summer 2015. Two guys they won't want--JR and Felton--and two whom they'll presumably be glad to have--Hardaway and Shumpert.
   294. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:35 PM (#4671237)
Jabari is better today.


You can't even really say that without ignoring defense. Also, since conference play began:

Wiggins: 18.3 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.4 SPG, .458/.378/.774, 115 ORtg
Parker: 17.6 PPG, 9.8 RPG, 0.8 APG, 1.0 SPG, .451/.302/.732, 109.6 ORtg

To say nothing of the fact that Wiggins is a natural 2-guard and a big one at that (though he could also play the 3 with his size, and would be that much quicker than most of the players he'd be facing), whereas Parker is more of a tweener 3/4 to my eyes.
   295. Manny Coon Posted: March 13, 2014 at 09:59 PM (#4671246)
“He's the greatest of all time. His skill is second to none. Him and MJ are neck and neck as far as skill,” Durant said. “Kobe is the top two best ever in just having skill, footwork, shooting the 3, shooting the pull-up, posting up, dunking on guys and ball handling. Kobe and Jordan are 1 and 1A."


I can see the argument for Kobe being near the top in skill, most of the players I'd rate ahead of Kobe overall as players are largely better because were more gifted physically. Nobody is going to put Shaq at the top of their skill list, but everyone knows he was a dominant force anyway and while they were more skilled and less physical than Shaq the rest of the pile of all time great bigs or even guys like Lebron and Magic, were also more physical that Kobe.

I don't think it's uncommon for players to appreciate skill more than physical dominance. I know when I was younger and played sports, I thought the guys that beat me with fancy skills were awesome but the guys that were just bigger, stronger and faster were just jerks.
   296. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: March 14, 2014 at 01:55 AM (#4671285)
Asking out of a position of ignorance, but how do you guys view the Noah as DPOY and first team defense talk? I am biased and think he has a real shot at it and could even deserve it, but I mostly watch bulls games and am way behind in the advanced metrics for basketball. So please enlighten me, I enjoy and learn a lot from your discussions
   297. Manny Coon Posted: March 14, 2014 at 02:23 AM (#4671286)
Hibbert seems like he should be the favorite for DPOY and first team defense center this year and for the most part his numbers back it up. Noah I think will get votes, he's the defense anchor of the second best defense team, although his on/off numbers aren't too good. DeAndre Jordan might get some votes because he has so many blocks and rebounds.

A center I think deserves a lot credit for his team's defensive performance but might not get many votes is Bogut.

Among perimeter players Igoudala probably has then strongest case this year, then maybe George.

Rubio and Paul get tons of steals and have good defensive reputations so that might get some votes.

Guys like Lebron, Duncan or Howard might be some votes based on their reputations.
   298. stevegamer Posted: March 14, 2014 at 02:57 AM (#4671289)
Sure, but if you rank the NBA orgs 1-30 right now based on:

1. Current talent
2. Future prospects
3. Confidence in management and coaching

The Lakers and the Knicks would probably be the bottom two teams.


I'm not sure that either the Knicks and the Lakers are behind the 76ers in this ranking.
#1. The Sixers have the worst roster in the league.
#2. They have Young, Carter-Williams, and Wroten. Then you get to picks & Noel who is just as unproven as a draft pick.
#3. The Sixers are completely unproven, except that they can figure out how to lose really well. I can tell you I'd have more confidence in the Knicks with Jackson in that position than I do in the 76ers. And the Lakers will always be a free agent destination team.

   299. rr Posted: March 14, 2014 at 03:05 AM (#4671291)
flip
   300. rr Posted: March 14, 2014 at 03:05 AM (#4671292)
flop
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