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Wednesday, May 01, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - May 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about straight NBA players, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: gay NBA players and craft beer.

Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 01, 2013 at 01:53 PM | 1929 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   301. Maxwn Posted: May 06, 2013 at 01:37 AM (#4434898)
Flip.
   302. robinred Posted: May 06, 2013 at 01:47 AM (#4434900)
There is a subset of Lakers fans who are saying that they don't want Howard back--crybaby, perimeter game in this era, etc. Things have changed a lot since I was young, but looking at the 8 teams left:

One of them has James.
Another has Durant.

And the other 6 all have high-quality bigs, if you count Bogut, who is good when he can get out there. So, unless you have an historic player, the best starting point is still probably having a really good center or really good tall 4, IMO. Needless to say, I think the Lakers have no choice other than to offer Howard, warts and all, the max, and to hope he stays.

As to Paul, Booey and Maxwn may both be right. This year's Grizzlies are a very good team for a 5th seed, and LAC's second-best player was hurt. OTOH, it is fair to note this: how many teams have won the NBA Title with a guy Paul's size as their best player? That is not to say it won't happen or that Paul is not a great player. But it is worth noting.
   303. Maxwn Posted: May 06, 2013 at 02:06 AM (#4434904)
This year's Grizzlies are a very good team for a 5th seed, and LAC's second-best player was hurt.

Yeah, believe me, I'm the last person to suggest that losing to the Grizzlies this year is a mark of shame on anybody.

But if you start to compare Paul to James or Durant or some of the other top-10 players, I think it's worth considering the point that Lebron(or Durant) has basically never played someone who was taller, longer, and quicker than he was. Whereas Chris Paul, from the jump, can basically only ever beat his guy on quickness. And there are several guys in the league who are roughly as quick as Paul, while being taller and longer. If you need him to be your leading scorer, you are asking a lot. He's got to make up a lot out of his superior decision making and shooting skills.

But if you dropped him on the Grizzlies, in place of Mike Conley, who I love, I think the Grizz would roll to the Western Conference title and would be no worse than even money against the Heat. That's what makes him better than all but a handful of players. He's basically as good as you can be while being 6 feet tall.
   304. robinred Posted: May 06, 2013 at 02:16 AM (#4434905)
But if you dropped him on the Grizzlies


That is the other way to frame the question: who is the best big guy that Chris Paul has ever played with? Griffin, I guess, if you count him as a big.
   305. Maxwn Posted: May 06, 2013 at 02:47 AM (#4434907)
It's Griffin or David West.
   306. RollingWave Posted: May 06, 2013 at 03:29 AM (#4434909)
He was also teammates with Tyson Chandler for many years. granted, Chandler took some time to really become a great player.

I am more arguing on the semantics that I think that if we treat Paul on the same level as Lebron and gives him the same standard it does seem weird that he's not getting the same amount of flak, because really, his 2008 Hornets team had this lineup.

Paul
Stojakovic (a well above average player at that point)
West (one hell of a career )
Tyson Chandler ( one of the best center around.)
Morris Peterson (ok he's not good, but I'd say he's about as good as most of Lebron's teammates.)


The bench wasn't great, but it was also not a disaster. I guess I agree with the argument that it's a buzzshaw in the West every year and hell the Heat probably have a better chance of winning the finals than they would be of making it if they were in the West because even the 8th seed can be scary teams almost all the time. in the finals at least you only need to beat one team. not 3 strait really good teams



   307. AROM Posted: May 06, 2013 at 07:49 AM (#4434931)
"how many teams have won the NBA Title with a guy Paul's size as their best player?"

Isiah Thomas comes to mind.
   308. AROM Posted: May 06, 2013 at 07:54 AM (#4434932)
Only other team I can think of since Bill Russell joined the league is Chauncy Billups. He's bigger than CP3, but the next smallest player to be best player on an NBA champion. So what does that mean for Paul? Sign with the Pistons if he wants to win.
   309. RollingWave Posted: May 06, 2013 at 08:20 AM (#4434938)
good point AROM ;) and in reality it makes sense too, Monroe + Drummond, if he can't with with those 2, in the East, then we'd really be on to something here
   310. RollingWave Posted: May 06, 2013 at 08:33 AM (#4434943)
And, Detroit have huge huge cap room, they should easily sign Paul and add other pieces if they want. and I'm pretty sure "getting out of the west" would already be a huge sell to Paul.

Another huge potential candidate is Atlanta, given that Paul's a native of North Carolina. they also have more cap space than kingdom kon
   311. The District Attorney Posted: May 06, 2013 at 08:35 AM (#4434944)
LeBron misses unanimous MVP by 1 vote...which went to Melo.
Provided by the Boston Globe's Gary Washburn. At least it wasn't a NY guy, anyway. That kind of thing always chaps my hide.
   312. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: May 06, 2013 at 08:46 AM (#4434947)
[311] Yeah, I read his piece explaining his vote and, in retrospect, I really wish I hadn't given him the page view.
   313. bob gee Posted: May 06, 2013 at 08:55 AM (#4434953)
i didn't think howard was playing well earlier in the season. looked like he hadn't fully healed, and given his injury, thought he'd be a risk for anyone signing him in the offseason.

i think that risk is a lot less now - he started playing much better the last quarter of the season, with much better movement than he had shown earlier in the year.

i don't want to read washburn's defense of "melo for mvp!" but my guess would be something like this: the heat won bunches of games last year and won tons of games this year, and they won the division both times. the knicks won bunches more games this year, and melo was the reason for that, and they wouldn't have won the division if he was "old melo". lots of problems with that argument, but for lebron to keep winning mvps, he'll have to get better.

because next year, it's likely to go to someone whose team improves 10 games and they say "hey, look, best player X is mvp!" or some such nonsense.

   314. jmurph Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:03 AM (#4434959)
Provided by the Boston Globe's Gary Washburn. At least it wasn't a NY guy, anyway. That kind of thing always chaps my hide.


Well he's on ESPN right now explaining his vote so, you know, mission accomplished.
   315. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:04 AM (#4434960)
For those who don’t want to click, Washburn’s points were:

-Knicks first division title in 19 years is a big deal
-Most VALUABLE Player award not Best Player award
-Considers LeBron on MJ’s level but MJ didn’t win every year either even if he technically could have
-Heat without LeBron are a 5/6 seed, Knicks without Melo are a lottery team (Zach Lowe pointed out that the Wins gap between 1 and 5/6 was larger than the wins gap between 2 and 9)
-Melo played really well down the stretch as the Knicks attempted to lock down the division/2 seed
-Felton and Chandler were hobbled by injury
-He had no idea he would be the sole dissenter and thought CP3, Durant and Kobe would also receive support

I think I hit everything.
   316. Bitter Mouse Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:05 AM (#4434961)
I know the playoffs are going on and I should talk about that*, but I am amused that Kevin McHale is coaching and Flip Saunders is new (essentially) a GM. McHale is pretty clearly a better coach than GM, and I would love it if Flip was a better GM than coach.

* OK I admit it, I am not watching much of the playoffs. It is not grabbing me this year, because I am too convinced the Heat will walk to victory and I prefer more suspence. And yes I know I am missing some great games. I need this thread to motivate me to watch, darn it! :)
   317. Eddo Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:14 AM (#4434967)
-Considers LeBron on MJ’s level but MJ didn’t win every year either even if he technically could have
[... snip ...]
-He had no idea he would be the sole dissenter and thought CP3, Durant and Kobe would also receive support

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you not just one, but two variations of the "two wrongs make a right" argument!

------

Re: the "Why doesn't Paul get the same treatment as James or Anthony?"(*) - I think it's because the more casual fan doesn't consider Paul to be anywhere near the same class of player as James (rightfully or wrongly) and less of a star than Anthony (wrongly). Paul has been mostly underrated his whole career by non-hardcore fans, and the you-must-win-a-championship-to-prove-your-greatness logic really only gets applied to those truly considered elite.

(*) I found it amusing that, while consciously referring to all three players by their last names, I typed in three traditional first names.
   318. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:42 AM (#4434988)
If Chris Paul comes to Detroit I will eat any and all shoes that any of you want to dispose of.
   319. The District Attorney Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:14 AM (#4435032)
Most VALUABLE Player award not Best Player award
Of course, the bright side is that apparently 119 of 120 voters do not make this distinction, which beats the living hell out of baseball.
   320. RollingWave Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:28 AM (#4435061)
[317] that's a good point too, but the hilarious sad thing is that those people are often the same people that lament the lack of old school PG.

   321. AROM Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:34 AM (#4435073)
Heat without LeBron are a 5/6 seed, Knicks without Melo are a lottery team (Zach Lowe pointed out that the Wins gap between 1 and 5/6 was larger than the wins gap between 2 and 9)


Without Carmelo the Knicks were 7-8 this year. Small sample and all, but if that holds up they aren't in the lottery, they're fighting Milwaukee for the 7-8 spots.

I was mostly joking about Paul going to the Pistons. Going forward for that team (which I have not watched much at all), is playing Drummond and Monroe together a workable plan? The model would be the Randalph/Gasol combination in Memphis. Or would they have too much trouble matching the smaller, quicker 4's used these days? And of course Drummond, who exceeded almost all of our expectations as a rookie, probably can't work as a fulltime player unless he can get his free throw shooting at least to the pathetic level of Dwight Howard and Shaq.
   322. AROM Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:38 AM (#4435077)
I found it amusing that, while consciously referring to all three players by their last names, I typed in three traditional first names.


Can be confusing. I thought we were talking about James Harden, Anthony Davis, and Paul Pierce.
   323. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:40 AM (#4435078)
And, Detroit have huge huge cap room, they should easily sign Paul and add other pieces if they want. and I'm pretty sure "getting out of the west" would already be a huge sell to Paul.
I'm not sure moving to the conference with Lebron is a big selling point.
   324. AROM Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:41 AM (#4435084)
Instead of trying to be consistent with using first or last names of players, I try to use whatever best uniquely identifies them. There's only one Lebron, one Carmelo. With CP3, Chris could refer to Birdman, Paul could be George, or Pierce, or as a last name it could be Cliff. So CP3 sticks.
   325. AROM Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:44 AM (#4435087)
I'm not sure moving to the conference with Lebron is a big selling point.


Looking beyond a year though, you don't know where Lebron will take his talents. If Lebron joins Howard and the Lakers the year after Kobe's contract is up, the East will be wide open again.
   326. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:49 AM (#4435090)
In his 8 season in the NBA, Paul has never made it out of the 2nd round, in fact, he only came close even once.


He's also played in the Western conference his whole career. LeBron's Cavs and Dwight's Magic were the closest the NBA comes to one-man teams, and both made the Finals. That's pretty rare.
   327. RollingWave Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:57 AM (#4435094)
it's most likely easier to make it to the conference final in the East though. and if your goal is to win the playoffs you need to win against Lebron anyway, but in the East you probably only need to go through two great teams to win it all , in the West you often need to go through 4.
   328. bob gee Posted: May 06, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4435133)
thanks 315 for the summary!
   329. kpelton Posted: May 06, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4435166)
The point of arguing "He had no idea he would be the sole dissenter and thought CP3, Durant and Kobe would also receive support" isn't to justify the vote; it's to avoid criticism like 314 that this was solely done for the attention.
   330. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 06, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4435182)
absolutely
   331. jmurph Posted: May 06, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4435193)
it's to avoid criticism like 314 that this was solely done for the attention.


I didn't mean that quite so crassly; I don't think his thinking was "Vote against Lebron, get on national TV." But I do think these types of votes always have an element of "look at me, I'm going to zig when everyone else zags" to them.
   332. robinred Posted: May 06, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4435206)
But I do think these types of votes always have an element of "look at me, I'm going to zig when everyone else zags" to them.


Probably. The agreement on James' performance status in the game right now is pretty much universal, since Ring + 66-16 quiets vocal non-stat types.
   333. andrewberg Posted: May 06, 2013 at 01:05 PM (#4435253)
That truth is this: Paul is short and not really that prolific a scorer in the NBA. He will absolutely make you a ton better, but if you wind up in a playoff series where he's clearly your best scorer, and you need him to put up a ton of points, it's going to be tough.



Steve Nash ran into a similar problem when the Suns were peaking. He would score a ton of points, but did not get enough support from the guys he made look a lot better the rest of the year.

We had a conversation way back, probably on the original thread, about how most champions have been built around a dominant post player. There have been some built around perimeter players, but even those have basically been Lebron and Jordan, who are atypical. Magic won plenty as a PG, albeit a really different type of PG. Other than him, you could make an argument for Thomas, Billups, and Frazier, and all of their teams are famous examples of abnormally balanced rosters for champions. That is all a roundabout way of saying what we all know- having a transcendent, dominant seven-footer can cover up a lot of other weaknesses.
   334. Every Inge Counts Posted: May 06, 2013 at 01:16 PM (#4435272)
Fun sporcle quiz here for the NBA fans:

Last Ten All-Stars per team
   335. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 06, 2013 at 01:18 PM (#4435277)
But if you start to compare Paul to James or Durant or some of the other top-10 players, I think it's worth considering the point that Lebron(or Durant) has basically never played someone who was taller, longer, and quicker than he was. Whereas Chris Paul, from the jump, can basically only ever beat his guy on quickness. And there are several guys in the league who are roughly as quick as Paul, while being taller and longer. If you need him to be your leading scorer, you are asking a lot. He's got to make up a lot out of his superior decision making and shooting skills.

A lot of this applies to Rose, too. Of course, he's not as good as Paul but does have some physical advantages (though will always still struggle against LeBron).

---

Deng has not yet gone to Miami, so he's out tonight. Hinrich is "game time", but I'll guess out. Rose is also out. Wade is in. Heat will win by 20+.

Nick Friedell @NickFriedell 2h
Thibs on Rose's availability for this series: "We'll see"


They're just ####### with us fans now.

Nick Friedell @NickFriedell 2h
Thibs says he spoke to Deng this morning. He is out of the hospital. They still aren't sure exactly what is wrong.


OTOH, this is scary.
   336. andrewberg Posted: May 06, 2013 at 01:21 PM (#4435282)
is playing Drummond and Monroe together a workable plan?


Monroe is at least as capable as Z-Bo of guarding quicker fours. He is lanky and has a back-to-the-basket game, which are both qualities that make him seem like a pure interior player. He is quite athletic, though, and moves better than most guys his size. He might become bulkier more stuck inside as he gets older. For now, I think he is fine guarding more athletic fours. There are not that many fours who play off the dribble anyway- the guys who do not focus on inside/PNR functions are more spot-up shooters anyway. When they play a freak athlete (basically Blake Griffin) you might swag Drummond onto him. Other than that, I think Drummond as rim protector and Monroe guarding the four will usually work defensively.
   337. AROM Posted: May 06, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4435306)
There are not that many fours who play off the dribble anyway- the guys who do not focus on inside/PNR functions are more spot-up shooters anyway.


Not many pure 4's, but we've seen guys like Durant, Anthony, and Lebron spend a lot of time at the 4. Jeff Green did that quite a bit too. But I suppose if it can work for Z-Bo, Monroe could make it work too.
   338. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 06, 2013 at 01:46 PM (#4435317)
Not many pure 4's, but we've seen guys like Durant, Anthony, and Lebron spend a lot of time at the 4. Jeff Green did that quite a bit too. But I suppose if it can work for Z-Bo, Monroe could make it work too.

So, he might struggle guarding the best players in the game, guys that everyone struggles with, regardless of position? And Jeff Green? They're the outliers, not him.

   339. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 06, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4435558)
Monroe is at least as capable as Z-Bo of guarding quicker fours. He is lanky and has a back-to-the-basket game, which are both qualities that make him seem like a pure interior player. He is quite athletic, though, and moves better than most guys his size.
Speaking of Monroe, he's one of those guys who makes a strong, positive impression on me every time I see him. There's always a pass or a move or something he does that makes me think, "Boy, that was smart." I think Detroit should look to populate the perimeter with swing men and shooters, and let Monroe be the playmaker from the post.
   340. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 06, 2013 at 07:37 PM (#4435754)
Nothing against Kia, but calling it the Kia NBA MVP kinda takes a little shine off it, no?
   341. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 06, 2013 at 07:44 PM (#4435762)
Nothing against Kia, but calling it the Kia NBA MVP kinda takes a little shine off it, no?


Blake Griffin really should win this award every year.
   342. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 06, 2013 at 08:23 PM (#4435798)
Great defense *and* horrible offense. Ugly and great to watch.
   343. andrewberg Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:46 PM (#4435887)
My god, Chicago is playing rough. It must be odd rooting for "muck it up and see if Nate gets hot" after a generation of facing "muck it up and see if Reggie/Starks/Thomas gets hot."
   344. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:50 PM (#4435890)
This is kind of amazing.
   345. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:51 PM (#4435893)
It's completely ridiculous that Nate Robinson had to hunt for a job. Also, Thibs for President.
   346. The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:51 PM (#4435894)
LeBron with the air ball. THought he'd drive hard to the hoop. EDIT: I meant the previous possession.
   347. The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:53 PM (#4435897)
Game Bulls.
   348. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:56 PM (#4435898)
Unreal.

Jimmy Butler is amazing. 48 minutes each in the last 3 games in 5 nights guarding LeBron, Wade and Williams with his only breather the few minutes he spent guarding Joe Johnson.
   349. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:56 PM (#4435900)
If I'm a Bulls fan...I'm really starting to dislike Derrick Rose at this point.*

*-This is ignoring the fact that I am not a Bulls fan and I already do dislike Rose.
   350. madvillain Posted: May 06, 2013 at 09:58 PM (#4435902)
I'm not really sure what just happened. Tom Thibs wins this series JR should build him a bigger statue, next to Jordan's. I'm only half kidding, what a coach.

But kudos to the players. Nate Rob, Jimmy Butler, etc. Guys just got it done. Wow, I'm shocked.
   351. PJ Martinez Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:10 PM (#4435911)
I missed the game, so this may be off, and I'm glad the Bulls got Game 1 and would love to see them knock off the Heat. But the first thing that comes to mind is Game 1 of Iverson vs. the Lakers. Sometimes one game is just one game.
   352. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:13 PM (#4435913)
Lbj was the only heat starter with pts > fga
   353. Into the Void Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:14 PM (#4435916)
But the first thing that comes to mind is Game 1 of Iverson vs. the Lakers. Sometimes one game is just one game.


If only the Bulls had a superstar to push them above their current level...
   354. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:16 PM (#4435917)
I missed the game, so this may be off, and I'm glad the Bulls got Game 1 and would love to see them knock off the Heat. But the first thing that comes to mind is Game 1 of Iverson vs. the Lakers. Sometimes one game is just one game.


Oh no question. I don't think that this game revealed a "blueprint" to beat the Heat -- it was a great gameplan by Thibs and the Bulls played maybe 75th percentile basketball to the Heat's 25th percentile. Still, the Bulls now only have to win 3 of 6 instead of 4 of 7 -- at this point, it's definitely a series.
   355. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:50 PM (#4435951)
Wow, I didn't know Ginobili could still dunk.
   356. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 06, 2013 at 10:51 PM (#4435954)
Aaaaand here comes the hack-a-Bogut.
   357. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 06, 2013 at 11:29 PM (#4435977)
damn. no way he is playing this series.

---

I've got some thoughts on posts 349 (yes), 351 (no) and 354 (a big no) but will have to wait until tomorrow when I'm not posting from my phone. That being said, the Heat are still winning this series but it might take 6 games now.

---

10 stitches for Nate at the half. Tough dude.
   358. Into the Void Posted: May 06, 2013 at 11:35 PM (#4435981)
Man, what is the deal with Curry in 3rd quarters?
   359. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 06, 2013 at 11:39 PM (#4435982)
I may hate the Warriors organization, but holy hell is Curry awesome. If I just focus on him and Bogut I think I can root for them here.
   360. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: May 06, 2013 at 11:43 PM (#4435983)
RT @gbnypat There is an alternate universe where Tom Thibodeau coaches a Knicks team that starts Curry, Shumpert, Chandler, Gallo, and Noah

   361. The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season Posted: May 07, 2013 at 12:24 AM (#4435993)
OT. Gotta give it up when you've lost your dribble.
   362. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: May 07, 2013 at 12:26 AM (#4435994)
The Warriors need a diaper after those last 5 minutes.
   363. Amit Posted: May 07, 2013 at 12:27 AM (#4435995)
Losing Klay Thompson down the stretch really hurt the Warriors; they actually used Richard Jefferson and Kent Bazemore in critical situations. Even with Duncan out, I'm surprised that the Warriors don't play Bogut or Ezeli in the 4th Quarter. Maybe they're afraid of the "Bang-a-Bogut", but I think they could use his defense and rebounding, and live with the 50% free throw shooting.
   364. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 07, 2013 at 12:32 AM (#4435997)
OH, CURRY RIGHT TO THE HOLE! That kid, he's incredible.

And Leonard, right back. The Warriors aren't supposed to win this series and all that, but if they lose this game, it'll be about as bad a loss as you can get in a Game 1.
   365. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 07, 2013 at 12:57 AM (#4436001)
Incredibly cool: until 3.9 seconds left in the second OT (when a ball-advancing timeout was necessary), both Jackson and Popovich let the game go despite having three timeouts apiece. Don't see that a whole lot these days (and it seemed to absolutely be the right call).
   366. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 07, 2013 at 12:59 AM (#4436003)
HOLY GINOBLI

Seriously, the Spurs' passing may be the best team thing in the NBA.
   367. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 07, 2013 at 01:00 AM (#4436004)
Good lord, how do you leave Manu open like that?
   368. andrewberg Posted: May 07, 2013 at 01:00 AM (#4436005)
OMFG what a finish
   369. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 07, 2013 at 01:00 AM (#4436006)
Manu is the ####### truth.
   370. Every Inge Counts Posted: May 07, 2013 at 01:00 AM (#4436007)
Ginobili redeems himself after taking a terrible three point shot earlier in the 2nd OT.
   371. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 07, 2013 at 01:03 AM (#4436008)
This has been an amazing game.

Probably won't amount to much (who knows), but nice play by Jack there with two TOs left calling one when the play didn't work instead of forcing an inbounds into a bad look. Can do it again...

I was in the Mark Jackson will be a terrible coach crowd, but I think, yeah, that is not true.

EDIT: Well, that play didn't do anything.
   372. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 07, 2013 at 01:04 AM (#4436009)
Not a great last play for GSW. The Spurs, it seems, are still the Spurs.
   373. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 07, 2013 at 02:16 AM (#4436021)
If the Bulls manage to steal the second game, that would have to really ramp up the pressure on rose...up 2-0 with a shot at home to almost put em away.... aw hell I know he isnt coming back this year but a meat can hope!
   374. Amit Posted: May 07, 2013 at 02:18 AM (#4436022)
A bad loss for Golden State, but they did came back from a tough Game 1 loss to Denver with three straight wins. Curry was amazing, but he missed almost all of his jump shots down the stretch. Probably tired from playing all but 4 seconds in the game - I think Jackson will give him more rest in the future.
   375. RollingWave Posted: May 07, 2013 at 02:57 AM (#4436029)
Wow, this has probably been the most awesome game of the playoffs.

But really, I think all of us can agree that whatever you think, the general opinion on Derrick Rose is withering faster than... ok that's a stupid pun.
   376. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 07, 2013 at 02:59 AM (#4436030)
A bad loss for Golden State.


I know it's really painful but if I'm GSW I feel damn good about things heading into game 2. They played the Spurs to a dead draw overall including after Thompson had fouled out. San Antonio did not have a real answer for Curry, and Bogut was a big factor.
   377. jmurph Posted: May 07, 2013 at 08:13 AM (#4436076)
1. I don't know if the Bulls will be the team to do it, but if Wade is going to be that mediocre for the rest of the post-season, I'd put the Heat at less than 50-50 to take home the title. Last night was also one of those games where you really wonder about Bosh.

2. I thought the refereeing was egregious in that game. I don't know that it mattered- in fact I think it favored the Heat, overall- but they were just clobbering each other.

3. I really wish A. I was less lame and tired or B. I lived in a different time zone. I hate that I keep missing these good Western Conference games.
   378. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 07, 2013 at 08:25 AM (#4436081)
being a fan of bogut's I was checking out the box score and saw that curry of the warriors played 58 minutes

that seems really foolish to me. even I know how exhausting it is to play pro basketball.
   379. JC in DC Posted: May 07, 2013 at 08:43 AM (#4436087)
Couple of things, aside from the obvious praise of Curry:

(1) Harrison Barnes has become (at least) a nice player;
(2) Every time I read Stoudamire eyes game three return, I regard it as a threat - is he really going to help the team?
(3) I've grown to love Noah, I mean, love the guy;
(4) The Bulls will be the Heat's biggest threat, or to put it differently, I don't think anyone will push them and if anyone does, it'll be Chicago;
(5) I want NYK to be successful, but I hate the team. I like Shump a ton, I like Chandler a bit, but that's about it. They have no will, no smarts, no guts. I can't stand them.
(6) Go Isles!
   380. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: May 07, 2013 at 09:01 AM (#4436096)
I want NYK to be successful, but I hate the team. I like Shump a ton, I like Chandler a bit, but that's about it. They have no will, no smarts, no guts. I can't stand them.

This was the topic of conversation at work yesterday. A lot of people in my office are cheering for the Knicks but really dislike the players, Melo and J.R. in particular.
   381. AROM Posted: May 07, 2013 at 09:22 AM (#4436109)
GSW-SAS was probably the most exciting game of the year. My guess on Curry's pattern: In the first half, he wants to get his teammates involved, like any good point guard should, so he's not dominating the shots. He comes out from the halftime rest on fire, but at some point his legs get a little tired, so the shot doesn't fall so perfectly in the 4th.

Bulls playing the Heat in a close game should be no surprise. I think if the league held a lottery for the #8 seed, the Bobcats won it, and got to play the Bulls in the playoffs, it would also be a close game. The Bulls just seem to have a way of making their opponent play up, or down, to their level.
   382. NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!) Posted: May 07, 2013 at 09:27 AM (#4436113)
[381] POOMA, but is it because their games tend to be so low scoring that it's hard for teams, good or bad, to separate?
   383. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 07, 2013 at 09:29 AM (#4436115)
Hey, at least the Dubs showed up. If they can win game 2, the Oracle is going to be jet engine loud for game 3. I don't think that will help them, but it would at least be a spectacle.
   384. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 07, 2013 at 09:33 AM (#4436120)
didn't see the gsw game harveys, but coach jackson has caught flack for overusing curry - suggesting that curry's fatigue (coupled w/ thompson fouling out) led to the SA comeback.
granted, it's hard to bring up overusing players w/o looking chicago's way.
   385. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: May 07, 2013 at 09:37 AM (#4436124)
wrong thread
   386. The District Attorney Posted: May 07, 2013 at 10:11 AM (#4436149)
A lot of people in my office are cheering for the Knicks but really dislike the players, Melo and J.R. in particular.
The lucky thing for the Knicks is that the Nets have perhaps constructed the most boring roster for a decent team that one could conceivably construct.

The more I think about it, the more I think this season was a failure in terms of the Nets making an impact in NYC. I really didn't get the vibe anyone much cared at all. And I think losing Jay-Z is a pretty big deal, not because his .05% ownership gave him real management power of course, but because he was seriously the single person most associated with the team. Just the fact that he'd want to leave before the season even ended, given how committed he seemed to be prior to that, is depressing.

What is this team now, exactly? There's basically no way for them to improve the current roster. So it'll be first round and out for a couple of seasons, then either a complete tear-down rebuild or an attempt to stay mediocre and avoid a tear-down rebuild, the latter of which never works. You're still in a situation where the team comes to town and does nothing that anyone truly cares about for many years. At least if they came to town doing the tear-down rebuild, you could be doing something legitimately interesting a couple of years later. I'm not sure it was nearly as important to have a 40-win debut season as they seemed to think.
   387. jmurph Posted: May 07, 2013 at 10:37 AM (#4436174)
What is this team now, exactly? There's basically no way for them to improve the current roster.


I think last year proved that there are no untradeable contracts. Joe Johnson got traded. Now perhaps your response will be that only the Nets would be dumb enough to do that... which might actually be a good point.

The flip side of your 40-win critique is that the Nets were probably good enough to beat the Bulls and host Lebron 2-3 times this series. Think that would have helped? That was a huge lost opportunity for them.

   388. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 07, 2013 at 11:07 AM (#4436234)
Picking up from my post last night:

If I'm a Bulls fan...I'm really starting to dislike Derrick Rose at this point.*

I've gone through all the stages of grief with him about 4 times this season. I think I'm back around to acceptance again. As someone who is very competitive, I can't imagine sitting on the sideline on not wanting to play; he's way more competitive than me and much closer, so I have no idea how he's not letting his emotions get the better of him and making a rash decision. But yes, he has definitely lost some fans and done some damage to his image.

I missed the game, so this may be off, and I'm glad the Bulls got Game 1 and would love to see them knock off the Heat. But the first thing that comes to mind is Game 1 of Iverson vs. the Lakers. Sometimes one game is just one game.

Since the superfriends have joined forces in Miami, the Bulls and Heat have played 17 times (including playoffs). The Bulls have won 9 of those 17. The total point differential in those games is exactly 1 point (in favor of Miami). The supporting players have changed some (more so on the Bulls) and there's been games missed by big players (mostly Rose, but Wade has missed a few too). But the one consistent has been Thibs/Spoelstra. I think Thibs is consistently outcoaching Spo, because the talent always favors Miami (and in some cases, like last night, it's a huge chasm between the 2 teams). I'm curious how many other teams have a winning record against the LeBron Heat (perhaps Dallas, since they're the only team to beat them in a series).

Oh no question. I don't think that this game revealed a "blueprint" to beat the Heat -- it was a great gameplan by Thibs and the Bulls played maybe 75th percentile basketball to the Heat's 25th percentile. Still, the Bulls now only have to win 3 of 6 instead of 4 of 7 -- at this point, it's definitely a series.

I totally disagree. The Bulls most definitely have a "blueprint" to beat Miami. Unfortunately for them, superior talent is almost always going to win out and that's why the Bulls have only won a little more than half of the time (and not when it mattered). LeBron's greatness is still greater than the Bulls' strategic advantages (and on court stuff, like size and rebounding). The Bulls have failed to execute their game plan in some of those games (the blowout this year), and in other games LeBron has just beaten them (games 4 and 5 of the ECF, for instance). So there is no 25th or 75th percentile here, this is what it's like when they play each other.

I have no delusions that the Bulls can actually win 3 more times against the Heat this year, especially shorthanded (but even full strength, the Heat are still better). The idea that the Bulls can win a game (or 2) against the Heat should not be a surprise to anyone or considered an unlikely occurrence.

I've grown to love Noah, I mean, love the guy;

I absolutely LOATHED him and could not have hated that pick more. I have never had as dramatic of a change about how I feel about an athlete than I have with him.

The Bulls will be the Heat's biggest threat, or to put it differently, I don't think anyone will push them and if anyone does, it'll be Chicago

I think Memphis is a legit threat to them. The Grizz can do a lot of things with their size like the Bulls (though they are limited because of their lack of Jimmy Butler).

granted, it's hard to bring up overusing players w/o looking chicago's way.

Somehow Jimmy Butler isn't even averaging 40 mins a game in the playoffs, in spite of playing the last 3.5+ games straight. But yes, this is Thibs' biggest weakness by far. It contributed to Noah's problems down the stretch (he does look healthy now though), it contributed to problems Rose had last year, and it'll likely cause problems with Butler at some point (though it is hard to pin Deng's current condition on him).

GSW-SAS was probably the most exciting game of the year.

Perhaps. But there's been several games that can compete with it, which shows how great the playoffs have been so far.
   389. andrewberg Posted: May 07, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4436274)
Last night was also one of those games where you really wonder about Bosh.


They have him playing away from the basket to keep the paint open for James/Wade drives. Lebron took advantage of that several times near the end when Bosh had Noah pulled away from the hoop (although Noah cheated in as much as he could off of Bosh). If Bosh is missing those midrange jumpers, there is not much of a plan B in that offense. It probably does not maximize his value, but it is part of creating the whole team offense. Granted, part of that theory is that Wade can also use the driving lanes, and he failed miserably at that last night. I agree that he needs to be MUCH better for the Heat to max out.

(3) I've grown to love Noah, I mean, love the guy;


Yup. I hated him when they knocked Georgetown out of the tournament, I laughed at him when he made Jim Nance uncomfortable, but I never (EEEEEVER) thought he would be a top 5 center. He is really fun to watch with his weird blend of passing and frenetic defensive energy.

POOMA, but is it because their games tend to be so low scoring that it's hard for teams, good or bad, to separate?


I think that's a big part of it. It is a basic tenant of the Princeton offense that the less talented team wants to decrease scoring because fewer points means more variance in the result (ie- a point means more when it's more scarce).
   390. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: May 07, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4436284)
I absolutely LOATHED him and could not have hated that pick more. I have never had as dramatic of a change about how I feel about an athlete than I have with him.


I believe the words you're looking for are, "CFBF was totally right."
   391. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 07, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4436326)
This looks cool.

---

I believe the words you're looking for are, "CFBF was totally right."

I don't think that's quite it...
   392. jmurph Posted: May 07, 2013 at 01:05 PM (#4436367)
They have him playing away from the basket to keep the paint open for James/Wade drives. Lebron took advantage of that several times near the end when Bosh had Noah pulled away from the hoop (although Noah cheated in as much as he could off of Bosh). If Bosh is missing those midrange jumpers, there is not much of a plan B in that offense. It probably does not maximize his value, but it is part of creating the whole team offense. Granted, part of that theory is that Wade can also use the driving lanes, and he failed miserably at that last night. I agree that he needs to be MUCH better for the Heat to max out.


It also only works well when Wade is rebounding. He was not last night. I don't think the Heat are ever going to completely neutralize Chicago's advantage on the glass, but surely Bosh could get an offensive rebound or two.
   393. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: May 07, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4436418)
Boston assistant GM Ryan McDonough named Suns GM.
   394. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 07, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4436424)
Nice piece on small-ball from Lowe.
   395. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 07, 2013 at 02:01 PM (#4436446)
I don't think that's quite it...
Der_K was totally right?
   396. smileyy Posted: May 07, 2013 at 02:07 PM (#4436452)
Jimmy Butler is a good player and will continue to get better -- there's enjoyment for this fan in watching a guy like him burst forth.

OTOH, he's gonna make Luol Deng (another of my favorites) expendable, isn't he? How much does the couple of inches he gives up on Deng matter?
   397. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: May 07, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4436465)
Der_K was totally right?


Don't try and horn in on this one, buddy. You know how rarely I get a chance to be right?
   398. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 07, 2013 at 02:48 PM (#4436500)
OTOH, he's gonna make Luol Deng (another of my favorites) expendable, isn't he? How much does the couple of inches he gives up on Deng matter?

They can co-exist, Butler (especially if he can keep improving his outside shooting) would make a nice 2 that compliments Deng at the 3. Butler is still on his rookie deal, and Deng's big deal is up after next season. Luol Deng is going to turn 53 by then at this pace, so it might be a natural succession. I see no reason why the Bulls would feel the need to move either next year (unless they're part of a package for another star).

Butler can guard 1s and 2s, and Deng really can't. Deng can guard some 4s, but Butler can only guard 3s playing smallball 4s (Melo, LeBron, etc). Butler is stronger and more athletic than Deng, so I think that helps make up for the height and length difference.
   399. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: May 07, 2013 at 03:14 PM (#4436534)
Reports: Scottsdale PD investigating Michael Beasley for alleged sexual assault.
   400. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 07, 2013 at 04:05 PM (#4436584)
Flip.
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