Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, May 01, 2013

OT: NBA Monthly Thread - May 2013

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about straight NBA players, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: gay NBA players and craft beer.

Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 01, 2013 at 01:53 PM | 1929 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 5 of 20 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 >  Last ›
   401. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 07, 2013 at 04:10 PM (#4436590)
flip
   402. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: May 07, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4436594)
Repost from before, as I had dates wrong...

RR and I are meeting up to see the Twins on July 23rd in Anaheim against the Angels. OCF of the Hall o' Merit threads may be there as well. If you're interested, let me know so I can get tickets together.
   403. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 07, 2013 at 05:46 PM (#4436731)
RJ Bell @RJinVegas
392-0. The record, before last night, of #NBA playoff teams with a 16+ point lead at the 4 minute mark [via @EliasSports]


Wow.
   404. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: May 07, 2013 at 05:56 PM (#4436748)
I heard that stat on sports radio today, and thought the guy had just pulled it out of his backside. The Warriors had that game won in regulation, then had it won again in the 2nd OT. A great effort by them, and a brilliant game from Curry, and nearly every factor they needed to get on their side they got... and they couldn't get the W. What happens if Curry's merely human next game, or the one after that? What if Manu plays great instead of terrible, which he was for most of last night's game?

That's a bad loss for GSW.
   405. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 07, 2013 at 06:08 PM (#4436760)
That Blazers-Lakers game 7 must have been a 15 point lead at the 4 minute and ten second mark. I couldn't have imagined a more demoralizing comeback than that.
   406. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: May 07, 2013 at 06:24 PM (#4436780)
That was a Game 7, so aside from Scottie Pippen messing up a rack of towels, we don't get to see the immediate on-court repercussions. of that loss.
   407. Amit Posted: May 07, 2013 at 07:13 PM (#4436807)
A great effort by them, and a brilliant game from Curry, and nearly every factor they needed to get on their side they got... and they couldn't get the W. What happens if Curry's merely human next game, or the one after that?
Well, Klay Thompson fouled out early, and he's a very important player for GSW. Jarrett Jack shot 5-15, and made some huge mistakes down the stretch. And Curry missed all 7 of his jump shots in the 4th Quarter and OTs; he only scored on a few amazing drives to the basket. As a team, GSW shot 11-30 (36.7%) from the 3-Point line, which is below their season average, and below what they shot in Round 1.

So while the Warriors did play well, I don't think this was close to their best game in the playoffs this year. As for the Spurs, Manu was off most of the game, but Danny Green was on fire, hitting 6-9 on threes.
   408. RollingWave Posted: May 07, 2013 at 09:14 PM (#4436928)
wow, the Pacers just managed to score 0 points for half of the 4th quarter. good night.

   409. Srul Itza Posted: May 07, 2013 at 09:46 PM (#4436970)
From 3:30 left in the third, to 4:48 left in the fourth, they scored 2 points -- on free throws.
   410. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 07, 2013 at 10:27 PM (#4436996)
From 3:30 left in the third, to 4:48 left in the fourth, they scored 2 points -- on free throws.

The points at 4:48 were free throws as well; it was more than a quarter between field goals (3:28 to 3:09).
   411. smileyy Posted: May 07, 2013 at 10:48 PM (#4437028)
Prospective Kings buyer gives up revenue sharing money

So, the city is putting $250M into the arena, while a study claims that the revenue from the new arena will line the owner's pockets while he puts a shitty team on the floor on the city's dime offset the lost revenue sharing.
   412. smileyy Posted: May 07, 2013 at 10:57 PM (#4437041)
Jason Kidd played 24 minutes, 0-3 from the floor (all from 3), 2 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals and 2 TOs. Is that the least statistically impressive +20 +/- that's been posted?
   413. Maxwn Posted: May 07, 2013 at 11:27 PM (#4437069)
Key to this game is gonna be if the Grizzlies can keep Perkins out of foul trouble.
   414. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: May 08, 2013 at 12:22 AM (#4437096)
Conley with big three! Man, Gasol's great. You don't see a lot of teams give it to their center to drive and kick.
   415. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: May 08, 2013 at 12:31 AM (#4437105)
Conley again with the big shot. Rudy who?
   416. Maxwn Posted: May 08, 2013 at 01:52 AM (#4437140)
I will say, I make fun of Perkins a lot, because he's terrible, but I'm not really sure that Brooks has much of a choice but to play him. Collison fouled out in 15 mins tonight. Collison is smart and plays the Grizz pretty tough on the defensive end, but I think if you try to push his minutes much, he's going to reliably foul out against Randolph. So you either have to play Perkins and/or Thabeet some or you have to go small a lot. And that means Durant has to either guard Z-Bo or Gasol, which is dangerous, and you have to play some set of 3 other wings, none of whom you're really dying to play much in the first place. Although I must give Fisher credit, he has been bizarrely effective in this series.

Durant is ####### amazing though. If he were any lesser of a player, they'd be down 2-0 in this series and probably would have lost both games by 10+.
   417. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 08, 2013 at 02:21 AM (#4437145)
Durant is ####### amazing though. If he were any lesser of a player, they'd be down 2-0 in this series and probably would have lost both games by 10+.


No, no, you have this wrong; today's missed shots down the stretch mean that he's a choker who will never win a championship, and proves that Westbrook was the heart of this team.
   418. Maxwn Posted: May 08, 2013 at 03:18 AM (#4437152)
No, no, you have this wrong; today's missed shots down the stretch mean that he's a choker who will never win a championship, and proves that Westbrook was the heart of this team.

I would tell anyone who wishes to make this argument to get his ass out there and try and score on Tony Allen.
   419. Maxwn Posted: May 08, 2013 at 03:22 AM (#4437153)
More accurately, I'd tell them to spend the first 3 quarters putting up a near triple-double on Tayshaun Prince amongst others and then come out and try to score on Tony Allen in the 4th.
   420. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: May 08, 2013 at 09:54 AM (#4437239)
Durant and the Westbrook-less Thunder are LeBron and the '09 Cavs and Memphis will play the role of the Magic.
   421. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 08, 2013 at 10:05 AM (#4437251)
Conley with big three! Man, Gasol's great. You don't see a lot of teams give it to their center to drive and kick.

Gasol and Noah are the best are it (Noah is the best passer currently healthy on the Bulls).

Durant and the Westbrook-less Thunder are LeBron and the '09 Cavs and Memphis will play the role of the Magic.

I know what you're saying, but before Maxwm chimes in, I'll say I think the Grizzlies team is better than that Magic team, so this might undersell them a little. Even with the Westbrook injury, were the Grizzlies to get to the Finals it'll be a tougher road than the Magic had.
   422. AROM Posted: May 08, 2013 at 10:12 AM (#4437256)
If they beat the Clippers, OKC, and Spurs, then I agree with that. But beating Lebron and the Celtics (even without Garnett) was an impressive feat.
   423. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 08, 2013 at 11:20 AM (#4437334)
Karl, runaway COY winner. Spo, Woodson, Pop, Vogel, Hollins, Jackson, Thibs, McHale, Carlesimo, VDN!, Drew is the order, and all of these got first place votes.
   424. The District Attorney Posted: May 08, 2013 at 11:23 AM (#4437337)
Karl, runaway COY winner.
Wow, I find that shocking.
   425. nick swisher hygiene Posted: May 08, 2013 at 11:29 AM (#4437343)
I ####### about Perkins, Maxwn, but I tend to agree with your read. if Westbrook was in the rotation, I'd be very tempted to go small a lot, but with only Fisher/Jackson/Martin/Thabo to cover three spots in a small lineup, I'm not crazy about it. The other problem is that Ibaka is a better shot-blocker than he is an on-the-ball defender....

   426. nick swisher hygiene Posted: May 08, 2013 at 11:29 AM (#4437344)
well, I just scored cheap game 5 tickets (row R, which is the only possible row behind row Q, where I was last time)--so if the Thunder could just somehow take one of two in Memphis, to help out with the game 5 ambience, it would be greatly appreciated!
   427. smileyy Posted: May 08, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4437381)
I want to change my CoY vote to Thibs.
   428. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 08, 2013 at 12:17 PM (#4437416)
I want to change my CoY vote to Thibs.

Heh. And I think that one guy might like to change his MVP vote away from Melo.

Seriously though, as critical as we can be of coaches, is this as strong of a crop of coaches as we've had? I feel like looking at that list, outside of Vinny (maybe Drew), there's a good argument to be made for everyone that got a vote. I don't know that this would be true this most recent year in MLB, NHL or NFL.
   429. andrewberg Posted: May 08, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4437426)
Orlando had a point differential of +6.7 and a simple rating of 6.49 in 2009. Memphis has a point differential of 4.15 and a simple rating of 4.33 this year. Don't sell that Orlando team short. Howard was at his peak, and they were getting a lot out of Lewis, Turkoglu, Lee, Redick, Gortat, and Pietrus, in addition to an absolute career year out of Jameer Nelson. Their differential was 4th in the NBA and Memphis is 6th this season.

Also, I might be blinded by fandom, but I am feeling especially good about being the only one to pick Hibbert for DPoY after game one of the ECSF (less so after game 2).
   430. smileyy Posted: May 08, 2013 at 01:26 PM (#4437489)
Seriously though, as critical as we can be of coaches, is this as strong of a crop of coaches as we've had?


Maybe?

Pop is an all-time great, of course. Some of those guys need a bit more of a track record to resolve caveats before I elevate them to the next level. By tiers, off the top of my head:

Popovich

Karl

Thibs (first among equals, but will he end up grinding his teams into dust?)
Spoelstra (coaching gets a lot easier when you have the GOAT on your team, but he's still delivered results and optimized his talent)
Vogel (YOY improvement and effective use of underrated talent)

Hollins
Woodson (Both have good results the past few years, but have been less successful in the past)

Mark Jackson (small sample size)


For total overall quality of coaching, any league with Phil Jackson and Popovich in it is going to be competitive with any league, any era.
   431. andrewberg Posted: May 08, 2013 at 01:32 PM (#4437498)
Bob Voulgaris was on Simmons's podcast yesterday and gave his opinions on coaching tiers. IIRC, he said the top tier of NBA coaches, in his mind, includes Popovich, Spoelstra, Rivers, Thibs, Adelman (deserves credit for career and what he did with a mess of a roster this year), and whichever coach runs Indy's defense (Vogel or Shaw).
   432. smileyy Posted: May 08, 2013 at 01:54 PM (#4437532)
Whoops. I left out Doc Rivers and Adelman. That's what I get for relying on the CoY results. I think Adelman goes with Karl, but I'm not sure whether I put Rivers with Karl, or with Thibs, etc.

   433. steagles Posted: May 08, 2013 at 02:03 PM (#4437544)
has anyone brought up the bar-room fantasy deal between boston and LA? it's something like blake griffin, caron butler and eric bledsoe for kevin garnett, paul pierce and doc rivers?
   434. andrewberg Posted: May 08, 2013 at 02:17 PM (#4437563)
I think that is a dumb trade both ways. I do not see why Boston would trade a really good coach (and don't think they could anyway, unless he wanted it). On top of that, they're not going to trade Blake, just not going to happen for two old players. I could see something like Pierce and Garnett for Bledose, Jordan, and a draft pick or two. That might make some sense, but it seems to me that Boston would have to want to move on from Rondo and go with a really exciting Bledose/Bradley backcourt with Green and Jordan up front and whatever they can get for Rondo at the other forward spot. That is probably a fringe playoff team with a bit of growth potential and possibly better defense than appears on paper.
   435. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 08, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4437602)
I feel like Thibs should have been a lot higher if not the winner. With all the time missed by players and they still had a good season
   436. Yardape Posted: May 08, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4437604)
On top of that, they're not going to trade Blake, just not going to happen for two old players.


Agree. I don't think this trade would make the Clippers appreciably better but it does make them appreciably older. Also, I assume this would only happen after Paul resigns? Because if Paul leaves, that's not a great team. At least with Griffin they'd have a young building block to try again with.
   437. andrewberg Posted: May 08, 2013 at 03:04 PM (#4437612)
On the other hand, if LA did pull that off without shipping Blake to Boston, they'd have a core of Paul, Pierce, Griffin, KG, 3D shooting guard TBNL, with Crawford on the bench with some variety of big men and wings who want to chase a title. The championship window for that team might only be 2 years, but it is a nice looking window. I'd put them as co-favorites in the west with OKC as long as Westbrook is fully healthy.
   438. jmurph Posted: May 08, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4437640)
As much as I'd like for Boston to do something big, I just can't see them moving on from Garnett or Pierce unless it's clearly the player's choice. They've certainly had enough opportunities over the past couple of years to do something and haven't pulled the trigger. And all parties involved have said they'd prefer to have their careers end in Boston enough times at this point that I guess I'm inclined to take their word for it.
   439. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 08, 2013 at 03:40 PM (#4437667)
And apparently rose not playing isnt because the knee and mental aspexcts but a plan from his brother reggie and bj armstro g telling him not to play
   440. madvillain Posted: May 08, 2013 at 03:41 PM (#4437668)
I just wanted to say: WE HAVE ENOUGH!

I've started to pepper it into my everday conversations:

"So, how's your day looking, pretty busy? Do we have enough time for ____"
"WE HAVE ENOUGH"

   441. smileyy Posted: May 08, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4437676)
[435] TBF, how much of that sentiment is being driven by the playoff series win and the win over Miami?

(I know my vote change is)
   442. jmurph Posted: May 08, 2013 at 03:54 PM (#4437691)
[435] TBF, how much of that sentiment is being driven by the playoff series win and the win over Miami?


That wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to take this opportunity to tout my pre-playoff prescience:

54. jmurph Posted: April 03, 2013 at 02:09 PM (#4403300)
Re: the Bulls: I was at the game last night and I think Thibs might get my (fake) vote for coach of the year. With apologies to the resident Bulls fans, that is not an impressive collection of talent, and he has them really competing out there.


"And they're totally going to beat New Jersey and maybe even the Heat" I didn't go on to say.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm going to totally let that New Jersey slip-up stand. I think that's the first time I did that since the move.
   443. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 08, 2013 at 03:55 PM (#4437692)
Im not countimg the maimi game but the nets seiers does help a bit but overall he has been able to rake interchangable parts and plug them all in and have them work this season. Hell look at what he has gotten out of nate rob. Or even butlers devlopment. The man can coach i cant believe it took so long to get his first gig
   444. smileyy Posted: May 08, 2013 at 04:16 PM (#4437715)
Thibs is definitely quite a few wins-above-replacement-coach. If the Bulls can actually keep playing for him, he'll move up in my estimation. He has a lot of potential upside potential.
   445. madvillain Posted: May 08, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4437725)
If the Bulls can actually keep playing for him, he'll move up in my estimation. He has a lot of potential upside potential.


They will. He's not a Scott Skiles screamer, he's more like Pops -- a guru who is a proven winner and motivator. Now, he hasn't won a championship as a head coach yet, so maybe guys can tune him out. But when you have guys like Taj Gibson basically saying that Thibs is the best thing since sliced bread for players who want to be coached (and the Bulls only bring in such players) then I think you have a recipe for long term success.

Guys like Nate Rob, who might have had questionable motivation coming in, buy in to the system. It's a little Patriots like.
   446. andrewberg Posted: May 08, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4437729)
COY is a regular season award. Karl gets crap for struggling in the postseason but he was tremendous this regular season. Thibs was great in the regular season and deserved consideration for the top spot. The Nets series and game 1 against Miami are feathers in his cap. They should not impact the COY discussion, though.
   447. smileyy Posted: May 08, 2013 at 04:29 PM (#4437736)
[445] I'm more concerned with death.
   448. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 08, 2013 at 04:58 PM (#4437787)
And apparently rose not playing isnt because the knee and mental aspexcts but a plan from his brother reggie and bj armstro g telling him not to play

I've been busy today, so are you referring to something specific here?
   449. madvillain Posted: May 08, 2013 at 05:42 PM (#4437833)
I'm more concerned with death.


Ha, the Thibs jokes never get old for me. Guy will be a legend by the time he retires IMO. He's a HOF level coach IMO and he's just getting started.
   450. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 08, 2013 at 06:09 PM (#4437847)
Moses thats per espn 1000 they seem to ridi g that for a bit and somewhat makes sense all things considered
   451. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 08, 2013 at 06:21 PM (#4437855)
Andrew look over the bulls roster what they have done with that team this year is just crazy, no rose and a roster full of well not great players and yet made the playoffs and had a solid season just a few wins behid the pacers and yet only 8th in Coy thats crazy and well shoudnt happen.
   452. smileyy Posted: May 08, 2013 at 06:27 PM (#4437858)
[449] I think so too. Death is an exaggeration, but I think its valid to have reservations about how hard he uses his players.

But if I had a good team and a 1-3 year window, and I got to pick any coach in the league, it'd be hard to choose anyone else.
   453. andrewberg Posted: May 08, 2013 at 06:29 PM (#4437860)
Meatwad- I agree with you. I don't recall the exact order I had on my ballot, but I think Thibs' regular season performance was right there with Popovich, Karl, Hollins, and Spoelstra. My point is that he looks better than ever right now because of the teams' playoff performance so far, and while that counts toward his reputation as a coach, it does not factor into the award.

Also, I think we are going to look at this group of players in Chicago as less bereft than we think of them now because they are missing a ton, but their backups are quite good. Thibs deserves credit for developing guys and putting them in the position to succeed. Still, I think we will think of Butler, Gibson, Bellinelli, and perhaps Teague in a better light looking back on this postseason than we did going into it.
   454. Yardape Posted: May 08, 2013 at 07:08 PM (#4437887)
Wade with a T 22 seconds into the game. Nice composure.

   455. jmurph Posted: May 08, 2013 at 07:30 PM (#4437904)
The double technical is a pox on humanity.
   456. jmurph Posted: May 08, 2013 at 07:36 PM (#4437908)
I think we're all sort of hedging on saying this (even the Bulls fans!) but Chicago can totally win this series.
   457. AROM Posted: May 08, 2013 at 07:49 PM (#4437916)
This game is a wrestling match. Chicago can win that.
   458. The District Attorney Posted: May 08, 2013 at 07:53 PM (#4437918)
Chicago can totally win this series.
No, they can't.

Bulls fans, feel free to take this as a reverse jinx. But man, I do not see it.

And yes, obviously Thibs and Pop are the two best coaches in the league. Obviously!
   459. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: May 08, 2013 at 08:36 PM (#4437948)
Yeah, they can't, unless one of the Big Three goes down and goes down hard. But they'll show up every night against them, and that's not nothing.
   460. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 08, 2013 at 09:06 PM (#4437968)
This is what the series is more likely to look like. Especially if Cook* keeps getting minutes and Boozer** keeps sucking this hard.

This Rose talk is awful. I have no idea why they think he's coming back. I don't think the result and the physicallity of this game is going to change his mind.

*Is he the worst 3 point shooting "3 point shooter"?
**I have never liked him, but I hate him so much as a player right now. His court awareness is ####, his help defense is non existent and he can't score right now. Total negative.
   461. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 08, 2013 at 09:13 PM (#4437980)
Not Scott Foster's best night. Bulls have been worse though.
   462. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 08, 2013 at 09:14 PM (#4437982)
apparently Miami decided to embarrass Chicago on national tv

little much
   463. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 08, 2013 at 09:15 PM (#4437984)
Very stupid of Taj, especially if he gets suspended. This is shameful.
   464. andrewberg Posted: May 08, 2013 at 09:18 PM (#4437987)
Everything that has happened since 456 has made 456 abjectly hilarious. I think the game has been 61-20 since then. No offense jmurph, just great timing.
   465. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 08, 2013 at 09:19 PM (#4437988)
so Chicago has been outscored 48-17 in the second half? what??
   466. The District Attorney Posted: May 08, 2013 at 09:24 PM (#4437997)
Leigh Ellis @LeighEllis

Derrick Rose will probably be suspended for leaving the bench during Noah's ejection.
   467. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 08, 2013 at 09:29 PM (#4438008)
466- I'm pretty sure that's now how that rule works.
   468. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: May 08, 2013 at 10:34 PM (#4438116)
I bet Rose did that on purpose just so no one will ask him about Game 3.
   469. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: May 08, 2013 at 10:34 PM (#4438117)
Klay Thompson can't miss right now.
   470. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 08, 2013 at 11:03 PM (#4438140)
I missed the ejection but from tje early parts of the game i saw my guess and very boased opnion is that the refs suck and were in tje whiny bunch (as barkley calls them) in there pocket.
   471. Howling John Shade Posted: May 08, 2013 at 11:56 PM (#4438186)
Aargh. I hate Jarrett Jack hero ball.
   472. Howling John Shade Posted: May 09, 2013 at 12:20 AM (#4438196)
But I like that win.
   473. JJ1986 Posted: May 09, 2013 at 08:18 AM (#4438244)
What the hell is up with the scheduling? Knicks/Pacers and Grizzlies/Thunder have 3 days off in the middle of their series during which the other four teams play twice.
   474. jmurph Posted: May 09, 2013 at 08:19 AM (#4438248)
Everything that has happened since 456 has made 456 abjectly hilarious. I think the game has been 61-20 since then. No offense jmurph, just great timing.


You should follow my performance in the soccer thread! I compared Gareth Bare sort of unfavorably to Theo Walcott earlier this season. Bale proceeded to turn into the best player in England basically overnight. I've got the touch, what can I say. This is why I don't gamble.

Also just for the record, minus any suspensions, I don't think last night changes anything. We all know Miami is the superior team and has a significant talent advantage. That was also true in game 1.
   475. jmurph Posted: May 09, 2013 at 08:21 AM (#4438253)
What the hell is up with the scheduling? Knicks/Pacers and Grizzlies/Thunder have 3 days off in the middle of their series during which the other four teams play twice.


Not to mention no games tonight. For something like 15 years, probably more, Thursday has been the marquee night for the NBA, with the TNT doubleheader. It's absolutely insane that, with 4 playoff series going, there are no games tonight.
   476. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: May 09, 2013 at 08:31 AM (#4438263)
I compared Gareth Bare sort of unfavorably to Theo Walcott earlier this season.

And let it also be known I have not stooped to mocking you for it!

Feels good to get that no wins at San Antonio monkey off the Warriors' back. The Spurs better find their legs quick or they are in for a stunning upset.

   477. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 09, 2013 at 11:23 AM (#4438451)
I haven't seen anything this morning to hint at Rose's return tomorrow. The way TNT was talking about it during the game last night made it seem like it was a forgone conclusion. I wonder why they talked it up so much - tomorrow's game isn't on TNT so it wasn't a ratings thing.
   478. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 09, 2013 at 11:24 AM (#4438453)
Oh, and I might just think the Warriors are better than 50/50 to win this series now.
   479. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 09, 2013 at 11:29 AM (#4438461)
Also, I think we are going to look at this group of players in Chicago as less bereft than we think of them now because they are missing a ton, but their backups are quite good. Thibs deserves credit for developing guys and putting them in the position to succeed. Still, I think we will think of Butler, Gibson, Bellinelli, and perhaps Teague in a better light looking back on this postseason than we did going into it.

It's all Thibs. When the Bulls signed their first batch of back up players 3 years ago - Watson, Korver, Bogans (plus a young Taj and Asik) no one here or anywhere really thought that highly of the group. By the time the Bulls let most of them go last offseason, that was seen as a negative for this year's team. Now, we're back to talking about how good these backups are.

NateRob, Bellinelli, and Mohammed are all on minimum deals (NateRob's wasn't even guaranteed!) and Bulter/Teague were last picks in the first round. As much as we've talked up Thibs' greatness, we haven't really previously called out this particular talent.
   480. JC in DC Posted: May 09, 2013 at 11:34 AM (#4438470)
NateRob, Bellinelli, and Mohammed are all on minimum deals (NateRob's wasn't even guaranteed!) and Bulter/Teague were last picks in the first round. As much as we've talked up Thibs' greatness, we haven't really previously called out this particular talent.


And what do you call the talent? Is it creating a system in which players can find roles and succeed? It reminds me of what Popovich does, or what Riley did in NY. Guys just seem to plug in, find a role, and excel, usually beginning with defense, but developing from there. I'm not trying to diminish Thibs at all - I'm trying to figure out what the talent is.
   481. Juilin Sandar to Conkling Speedwell (Arjun) Posted: May 09, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4438485)
And what do you call the talent? Is it creating a system in which players can find roles and succeed? It reminds me of what Popovich does, or what Riley did in NY. Guys just seem to plug in, find a role, and excel, usually beginning with defense, but developing from there. I'm not trying to diminish Thibs at all - I'm trying to figure out what the talent is.

That, plus defensive development. A number of these players have improved defensively (I'm thinking Korver and Bellinelli primarily, and of course Butler, but just from observation, Watson went from an "above average" to "very good" defender with the Bulls, and Teague is currently at "not horrible"). This might just be within the system, but Korver seems to at least have been at "average/passable" with the Hawks (though not against Paul George, clearly), which isn't really where he was when he joined the Bulls a few years back.
   482. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: May 09, 2013 at 12:03 PM (#4438528)
Oh, and I might just think the Warriors are better than 50/50 to win this series now.
I had the thought this morning, while walking my dog, that perhaps I need to reconsider my initial reaction to Mark Jackson's claim that Thompson and Curry were the best shooting backcourt in history.

I was also thinking that perhaps all those little concerns about the Spurs that were forgotten after they dismantled the Lakers are still there, and it took an actual GOOD basketball team to reveal them.
   483. andrewberg Posted: May 09, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4438592)
I don't think it is JUST the system. Like Arjun says, the improvement seems to carry over. Korver, Watson, Asik, all went on to be good players after leaving Chicago. Lots of guys who leave San Antonio are nothing special outside of that system (Roger Mason III?).
   484. Amit Posted: May 09, 2013 at 01:41 PM (#4438674)
It's only been one season, but Curry and Thompson have to be in the conversation for the greatest shooting backcourts in history, when you consider quantity and efficiency. Both attempted over 500 3-Pt shots and made over 40%, which has never been done before. And they are not just stand-still shooters - they can create shots off the dribble too. Who else would be in the running? Jerry West/Gail Goodrich? John Stockton/Jeff Hornacek? Dennis Scott/Nick Anderson?
   485. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 09, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4438687)

Karl, runaway COY winner. Spo, Woodson, Pop, Vogel, Hollins, Jackson, Thibs, McHale, Carlesimo, VDN!, Drew is the order, and all of these got first place votes.


The last three are funny. PJ has already been let go and VDN and Drew are probably on their way out too.
   486. Into the Void Posted: May 09, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4438689)
Are there any Spurs fans here? Can anyone tell me why DeJuan Blair no longer gets any minutes at all, even in garbage time?
   487. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 09, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4438749)
And what do you call the talent? Is it creating a system in which players can find roles and succeed? It reminds me of what Popovich does, or what Riley did in NY. Guys just seem to plug in, find a role, and excel, usually beginning with defense, but developing from there. I'm not trying to diminish Thibs at all - I'm trying to figure out what the talent is.

Things Thibs appears to excel at:
1. Scheme - his defensive scheme has been successful across many teams. The immediate impact he had on the Bulls defensively (and offensively last year).
2. Player development - he's developed young role players (Gibson, Asik, Butler), he's developed veterans from other teams (Korver, Watson, Bellinelli, Robinson) and he's developed his holdover players (Noah; Rose took a huge leap when Thibs arrived, but Thibs isn't the only reason). I agree with 481, that it appears (so far at least), this isn't limited to when guys are being coached by him (I'm sure we could find some guys in Boston that owe him some credit too).
3. Game planning and adjustments - last night is not a shining example, but the overall success they've had against Miami is a good example of this. Being able to adapt the plan to injuries and still have success.
4. General leadership - having all the players buy in to the amount of work the Bulls show every game (much more obvious in the regular season). I haven't seen a player or ex-player say anything bad about him. The Bulls haven't had (yet) a messy break-up with any ex players (yet).

All of that leads to the Bulls overperforming regular season expectations (I think every year under him they've done better than the general consensus). Maybe talent isn't the right word, and it's not that I'm saying he's unique or better than someone like Pops. Just here we've tended to focus on 1, 3 and 4 and not 2 (which is what I was referring to).

Things he struggles with/areas for improvement:
1. Overusing players, leading to injuries. Also rushing guys back (not sure that's all him, if the org/doctors/players are saying the player is ready; but he does deserve some blame for not recognizing when guys are hurt vs injured - as a non-medical professional, that is). That is a negative side effect of point #4 above.
2. Me still hating Boozer.
   488. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 09, 2013 at 02:43 PM (#4438750)
Jerry West/Gail Goodrich? John Stockton/Jeff Hornacek? Dennis Scott/Nick Anderson?


The second one isn't a bad choice based on accuracy. Dennis Scott was officially a small forward, IIRC. The Lakers guys are before my time.

I went back through Dale Ellis' career, and remembered that Jerry Tarkanian coached the Spurs in 1992.
   489. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 09, 2013 at 02:54 PM (#4438763)
Reggie Miller and Chuck Person! Actually Reggie + Mark Jackson was a good combo.

Ray Allen and Michael Redd were pretty deadly for a few seasons in Milwaukee.
   490. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 09, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4438772)
Mark Price and Craig Ehlo were both pretty good shooters for the late '80s Cavs. In 89-90, Price was 40.6% on 374, and Ehlo was 41.9% on 248 attempts. They also had Steve Kerr (73 for 144). That one might be tough to beat, although they didn't shoot the volume of Curry/Thompson
   491. AROM Posted: May 09, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4438776)
Ray Allen and Michael Redd were pretty deadly for a few seasons in Milwaukee.


If they played together, it was with one at small forward. Sam Cassell was the PG.

Among those mentioned, I'd go with West/Goodrich over Stockton/Hornacek. Those Utes were great but didn't do it in enough volume to be the #1 shooting backcourt.
   492. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 09, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4438778)
Ray Allen and Michael Redd were pretty deadly for a few seasons in Milwaukee.

One of them would have had to be playing SF, since neither were really ball handlers. Cassell wasn't as good of a shooter as I remember, but he did shoot 36% on 3s his last year in Milwaukee alongside Redd and Allen.
   493. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: May 09, 2013 at 03:10 PM (#4438779)
   494. Amit Posted: May 09, 2013 at 03:12 PM (#4438781)
Actually Reggie + Mark Jackson was a good combo.

Ray Allen and Michael Redd were pretty deadly for a few seasons in Milwaukee.
But Jackson just didn't shoot very many 3s - he never made over 100 in a season.

Allen and Redd were very good in the 2001-2002 season, and went a combined 317-726 (.437). But that was really a lot of Allen (229-528) and just a little of Redd (88-198). That's a little better overall rate than Curry/Thompson, who hit 483-1126 (.429). But I would still give the edge to the GSW pair for the much higher volume from each player.
   495. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 09, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4438786)
So many guys in the top 3 point PCT list are part-timers - Kerr, Hubert Davis, Jason Kapono, Tim Legler, Dale Ellis, Kyle Korver.

Why is that? They're just specialists who can't create their own shot? Is it because they had limited action that their pct is so good?

I remember playing NBA Live on PS and we'd have to ban ourselves from using Steve Kerr because it was so easy for him to score 50 points because his shooting rating was like 99 and he'd hit everything.
   496. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 09, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4438799)

Why is that? They're just specialists who can't create their own shot?


That was my first impression, but I just looked this up:

Kerr took 37.5% of his career shots from deep. Hubert Davis took 36%. Tim Legler, 35.4%. Dell Curry only 28%.

I think of all those guys as strictly standstill shooters, and therefore expected them all to shoot a higher percentage of 3's than Steph Curry, who has taken 37.1% of his career shots from deep. The only guy I found who shot significantly more was Wesley Person, who took 40% of his career shots from deep. I know the 3-ball is used more as a weapon than when most of these guys played, but that still surprised me. I'm also wondering if Curry will continue to shoot about the same ratio of 3 pointers, or if it will go up or down (I could see either).
   497. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: May 09, 2013 at 03:42 PM (#4438804)
Remembering NBA Jam, I looked up Dan Majerle -- 41.4%. In his last 5 years he had over 2/3 of his FGA beyond the arc.

Getting a little closer timeline wise, but Peja Stojakovic is also at 41 percent.
   498. JJ1986 Posted: May 09, 2013 at 03:47 PM (#4438807)
Steve Novak is at 77%.
   499. Los Angeles El Hombre de Anaheim Posted: May 09, 2013 at 03:53 PM (#4438812)
So many guys in the top 3 point PCT list are part-timers - Kerr, Hubert Davis, Jason Kapono, Tim Legler, Dale Ellis, Kyle Korver.

Why is that? They're just specialists who can't create their own shot? Is it because they had limited action that their pct is so good?
Pretty much. Look at the list you posted. None of those guys could put the ball on the floor and take it hard to the basket (maybe Ellis when he was young). Perhaps all those guys became great long-ball shooters was because they didn't have that extra gear that let them do other things, so they had to perfect the skill they had? For all the gifts Gerald Green possesses, I'd take any of the above players over him. Green's a great athlete, those guys can play basketball.
   500. theboyqueen Posted: May 09, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4438820)
If any of those guys played full time I would expect their numbers to regress somewhat to the mean, not only based on sample size but also fatigue.
Page 5 of 20 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
danielj
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT - November 2014 College Football thread
(502 - 12:53pm, Nov 22)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

NewsblogOTP Politics November 2014: Mets Deny Bias in Ticket Official’s Firing
(4139 - 12:51pm, Nov 22)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - November 2014
(947 - 12:50pm, Nov 22)
Last: puck

NewsblogOT:  Soccer (the Round, True Football), November 2014
(377 - 12:42pm, Nov 22)
Last: frannyzoo

NewsblogFriars show interest in dealing for Bruce | MLB.com
(4 - 12:40pm, Nov 22)
Last: Mike Webber

NewsblogESPN Suspends Keith Law From Twitter For Defending Evolution
(70 - 12:38pm, Nov 22)
Last: RickG

NewsblogKemp drawing interest, raising chance he's the Dodgers OF dealt - CBSSports.com
(3 - 12:34pm, Nov 22)
Last: akrasian

NewsblogMatthews: Cashman sleeps on the street, says all is quiet on the free-agent front
(18 - 12:31pm, Nov 22)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

NewsblogRays name managerial finalists: Cash, Ibanez, Wakamatsu | Tampa Bay Times
(6 - 12:23pm, Nov 22)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 2014 Ballot
(9 - 12:20pm, Nov 22)
Last: lieiam

NewsblogMike Schmidt: Marlins' Stanton too rich too early? | www.palmbeachpost.com
(13 - 12:11pm, Nov 22)
Last: You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR)

NewsblogCashman in wait-and-see mode on retooling Yanks | yankees.com
(2 - 12:08pm, Nov 22)
Last: Bug Selig

NewsblogMLB.com: White Sox Land Adam LaRoche With 2 Year/$25M Deal
(14 - 11:40am, Nov 22)
Last: Joey B.

NewsblogDodgers Acquire Joel Peralta – MLB Trade Rumors
(35 - 11:36am, Nov 22)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogBraves shopping Justin Upton at a steep price | New York Post
(1 - 10:26am, Nov 22)
Last: Astroenteritis

Page rendered in 0.7842 seconds
53 querie(s) executed